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A10170 The other parte of Christian questions and answeares which is concerning the sacraments, writte[n] by Theodore Beza Vezelian: to which is added a large table of the same questions. Translated out of Latine into Englishe by Iohn Field.; Quaestionum et responsionum Christianarum libellus. Pars altera. English Bèze, Théodore de, 1519-1605.; Fielde, John, d. 1588. 1580 (1580) STC 2045; ESTC S109027 101,745 336

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wherein it is ministred to any as neyther is the fruite of the simple woorde the seed lying so long hid in the mindes of the hearers till that by the vertue of fayth wrought sometimes later and sometimes flower shewing it selfe it fructifieth 112. Question Baptisme therefore doeth not abolish onely sinnes past Answeare Yea rather the fruite of baptisme is spreade foorth through out the whole life of beleeuers For that same grosse errour was the cause that many deferred baptisme vntill death which is a great wonder that it was not more vehemently handled of learned bishops 113. Question Doest thou not thinke that originall sinne is taken away by baptisme Answeare Surely I thinke that it is taken away concerning the guiltinesse so that Fayth be present But the vice it selfe although it dye by litle and litle in the beleeuers yet notwithstandyng in deede remayneth and it must needes be sinne and be so called because whatsoeuer resisteth the wil and spirite of God must of necessitie be vitious 114. Question But is this same Sacrament of baptisme an instrument altogether and absolutely necessary to obtaine saluation in Christ Answeare No not so Question And yet not onely the late writers but also many auncient fathers haue thought it so farre foorth at the least necessary that they haue esteemed those destituted of the light of the life of heauen which were not lightned with that same outwarde baptisme of the Church Answeare Concerning this opinion from whēce flowed that same shameful errour of the Clinicks and Baptisme of Midwiues we shall see afterwardes Nowe I say that the Sacrament of Baptisme is thus farre necessary that hee that neglecteth it doeth also depryue him selfe as muche as is in him of the benefite of Christ the which sinne notwithstanding as all others may bee taken away by true repentance but that he can not seeme to be a contemner of Baptisme who through no negligence of his much lesse fault doeth not obteyne Baptisme in that order which is instituted in the Church 115. Question But doest thou think that the baptisme administred by Iohn and afterwardes of the Apostles by the commaundement of Christ was one and the same Answeare I would wilingly that this question were omitted as at this day vnprofitable Notwithstandyng because it maketh for the clearer interpretation of certayne places of the holy scripture and from thence the Anabaptists seeke somewhat wherevnder to shroude their pestilent opiniō I refuse not also somewhat to entreate of this thing when we shall come to the confutations of the cōtrary opinions In the meane tyme I say that in very deede the Baptisme first ministred of Iohn and afterwarde by the commaundement of Christ was one and the same albeit it seemeth to bee so muche more plentifully perfourmed in that Apostolicall Baptisme then in that of Iohns as the doctrine is more plaine of the Apostles then the doctrine of Iohn and yet in very deede the same 116. Question Nowe I would haue certaine questions pertayning vnto this matter distinctly set foorth vnto me and first whome thou thinkest fit to be baptized Fot there are who thinke that all are to be baptized without differēce so they resist it not Answeare This foule errour flowed out of two fountaynes For they thought that the beginnyng of our saluation was from Baptisme and further that Baptisme saued vs euen by the woorke wrought as they speake 117. Question Others thinke that those onely are to bee baptized that are of yeares of discretion and are indeede suche as make confession of a true Fayth by the example of the Eunuch Actes 8. 37. Answeare The errour of these men sprange from thence that they thought Baptisme to be ministred in vayne vnlesse Fayth presently went before Baptisme Question What hast thou not sayde before that the thinges signified in the Sacramentes are layde holde vppon by the onely hande of Fayth Answeare So it is But that Fayth may follow the Sacrament yea though it were ministred many yeares before is no more absurde then if I shoulde say that which wee thinke also we proue dayly to wyt that it oftentymes commeth to passe that the thinges which we haue contemned when they were spoken vnto vs that beeyng marked they beginne to profite vs yea many yeares after and sometymes in the very last breath of our lyfe 118. Question Whome then thinkest thou meete to be baptized Answeare All they who can rightly shewe the conueyances of the couenaunt for the sealyng whereof Baptisme is instituted 119. Question But who doe rightly shewe them Answeare They who if they bee growen in yeares testifie theyr consent Question Wylt thou not then admyt any of yeares of discretion vnles they playnely professe a right Fayth Answeare None in deede For what els should I probably beleeue that I can seale in them 120. Question To what end then wilt thou admyt children Answeare Neyther will I admyt all infantes for neither will I receiue the children of the Turkes nor of the Iewes Question Why so Answeare Because they are not comprehended in the tables of the couenant Question But they may be instructed in Christianitie Answeare Why let them bee instructed or become Catechistes and then at length let them be baptized 121. Question I coulde easily graunt this vnto thee concerning the Turks children and the children of all those which were neuer comprehended in the couenaunt but wylt thou recken the Iewes with these Answeare Yea but after an vnlike maner For they indeede were neuer comprehended in the couenaunt but nowe the people of the Iewes retectyng the Mediatour are fallen from the couenaunt the Gentiles beeyng engraffed in their place 122. Question But is it sufficient as thou thinkest to be borne of the faithful that none bee reiected and put off from Baptisme Answeare So I thinke For the wordes of the couenaunt are plaine I wil be thy God Gen. 17. 7. and the God of thy seede Nowe by the name of seede the Apostle teacheth that all the Gentiles are conteyned followyng the fayth of Abraham Gal. 3. 8. And the same Apostle also playnely sayeth that those children are holy which are borne either of the parentes being a beleeuer by which sanctification 1. Cor. 7. 14. no other thing can bee vnderstoode then that same comprehension in the couenaunt whereby those that are holy are discerned from those that are prophane 123. Question But the example of Esau doth declare and also daily experience doeth confirme it that many begotten also euen of those that bee most holy doe nothing at all belong vnto the couenaunt Answeare Many also of those that are growen in yeares professing Fayth with theyr mouths are hypocrites But those same particular iudgementes are to bee left vnto God But that we should generally hope wel of all those which are borne of the faithful both the indefinite forme of the couenaunt doeth commaunde vs and loue doeth warne vs. 124. Question But without Fayth it is impossible to please God
in the place where the Sacrament is administred 42 How whole Christ and al that belongeth to Christ differ 43 The difference in respect of another thing or another and for it selfe 44 That whole Christ but not the whole of Christ is present in what place soeuer the Sacramentes are administred 45 The chiefe head of the controuersie of the reall presence of Christes flesh 46 Foure opinions of the reall presence of the fleshe of Christ why they stray from the trueth 47 A speciall manner of Christes presence is required in the Sacrament 48 The maner of this speciall presence is to be esteemed by the end 49 The presence of Christ meerely respectiue set forth by examples 50 The reall presence and the sacramental presence diuerse 51 The sacramental presence dependeth vpon the onely will of God 52 The reall distance of the substances of the signe and things signified doth not make frustrate the Sacramentes Of the partaking of the signes and thinges signified 53 The bodily signes are receiued by the instrumentes of the body 54 The benefits of Christ seeing they are qualities are onely receiued of the mynde endued with fayth 55 Neither the person of the worde nor the soule of Christ can otherwise bee receiued of vs then by an effectual vertue and operation 56 The cleauing or sticking of the same body with ours is monstrous 57 Notwithstāding it behoueth vs to be vnited to Christ himselfe in deeed but spiritually 58 Why this partaking and communicating of Christ himself is called spiritual 59 Why the same is called mysticall 60 Why the same is called an vniting 61 The cōmuniō of the substāce of Christ himselfe is confirmed by similitudes 62 What in effect our communion with Christ himself is wherto it tendeth 63 Why there is rather mention made of the flesh then of the god heade in our vniting togeather with Christ 64 Although Christ cā be only applied to the mind endued with faith yet the fruit of this applicatiō belongeth to the body 65 Christ himselfe is truely communicated by faith not only in the simple word but also in either of the sacramentes 66 What difference there is betwene the meere spiritual sacramētal partaking of Christ 67 Christ himself with the same his gifts was the matter of the olde types and sacramentes 68 Augustine rightly said that the Sacramēts can haue no astonishmēt as wōders The cōparing of the old new sacramēts 69 The olde Sacramentes agree in some things with the later in som things they disagree amongest themselues 70 In what thinges they agree 71 In what thinges they disagree 72 The multitude of Sacramentes doeth not make the state of the olde Fathers better 73 How the proportion of our Sacramentes is more significant then of the Fathers 74 The Fathers and wee haue eaten the same meate 75 76 Howe the fleshe of Christe not yet beyng indeede was eaten of the fathers Of the Sacramentall formes of speaking 77 The Scripture doeth speake sometime properly and sometime figuratiuely of the Sacramentes 78 What Sacramentall formes are proper 79 The firste Sacramentall figuratiue forme is that whereby the name of the Element is attributed to the thing signified 80 The other forme whereby the name of the thing signified is attributed too the element 81 The third kynde whereby the effecte of the thing signified is attributed to the signes 82 The fourth kind whereby that which is proper to the signes is attributed to the thing signified 83 A metaphoricall body not therefore too bee imagined of vs in the Sacramentes 84 Whether to beleeue and too eate the fleshe of the Lord be all one 85 The Sacramentall figuratiue formes doe not darken but make playne those thinges which are taught of the Sacramentes 86 What the vse is of the Sacramental figuratiue formes Of the number of the Sacraments of Christians 87 That there are onely two Sacraments of the Christian Church Of Baptisme 88 What the woorde Baptisme importeth 89 What baptisme is being taken for the first Sacrament of the christian church Of the outward Baptisme 90 What the signes of baptisme are 91 Of the forged signes added too Baptisme Of the thinges signified in Baptisme 92 The thing that is signified by the Element of water 93 The thing signified by the rytes of baptisme 94 Why baptisme was ordayned in steed of olde washinges 95 The sprinkling of the water of Baptisme is signified by the ancient sprinkling of the blood 96 What it is to put on Christ 97 What the outward washing in baptisme is 98 How we dye are buryed and rife agayne with Christ in baptisme 99 After what maner Christ may be said to be dead buried and raysed from the dead for our sinnes 100 How mutuall fellowship in Christ is established in Baptisme Of the paterne answering to the figure of Baptisme 101 What the Exemplar is and what the respōdent figures of baptisme is 102. Baptisme not onely a signe but also a seale 103 The causes parts of Baptisme 104 What the formal woorde of Baptisme is 105 What it is to baptize into the name of the father of the Sonne and of the holy Ghost 106 The Apostles haue chaunged nothing in the formall worde of baptisme 107 What the effectes of baptisme are and from whence they arise 108 Sinne is one thing and sinnes another 109 What the remission of sinnes is 110 What regeneration is 111 At what time the effecte of baptisme beginneth 112 Baptisme abolisheth not sinnes only past 113 How farre foorth originall sinne ii taken away by baptisme Sundrie Questions concerning Baptisme 114 How farre foorth Baptisme is necessary to saluation 115 Whether the Baptisme of Iohn and of Christ was all one 116 All are not to be baptised 117 The faith of him that is to be baptized doth not necessarily goe before baptisme 118 Those are to be baptised which are comprehended within the Tables of the couenant 119 Profession of faith is required of those that are growne to yeeres of discretion being to be baptised 120 Children of Turkes are not to be admitted to Baptisme 121 Neither of the Iewes 122 123 The children which are borne eyther of the Parents being a Beleeuer are probably thought to belong vnto the couenant of Christ 124 We please God also being about to beleue not yet beleeuing 125 The promises beeing of the lawe in themselues are made of the Gospel Christ 126 What the faith of Parentes auaileth to their children 127 The particular hidden iudgementes of God are to be left to God concerning the children of the godly 128 What Baptisme sealeth in children not yet beleeuing in act 129 Whence those Questions sprang sometime accustomed to be made in the baptisme of infants 130 Why the children of Papistes may be baptised 131. 132. The Church yet too be in the papacie although papistrie be not christianitie 133 A papist beeyng of the yeeres of discretion and not yet baptized is not foorthwith to bee baptized 134
Answeare It is one thing for a man to please God in very deede another thing to be appointed by this secret decree of God as I may say to this good wil of God For that indeede is brought to passe in those that are of the yeares of discretiō their fayth comming betwene but faith springeth from that same decree of Gods good will For why do we beleeue but bicause it so pleaseth him we please him therefore also beleeuing and we should not indeed beleeue vnles first in the order of causes and tyme wee had freely and vndescruedly pleased him Question But why doest thou adde in those that are of the yeares of discretion Answeare Because there is another respect of children dying before they are taught for as muche as Fayth after the ordinary manner is by hearing and extraordinarily by the onely inward motion of the holy Ghost of which the one cānot agree vnto infants by no place of scripture neither canst thou gather it by any litle coniecture For faith whether it arise by hearing or extraordinarily necessarily presupposeth knowledge of the free promise in Christ which he applyeth vnto him selfe that beleeueth which by no maner of meane can fall out and agree into infantes Question Howe then shal wee think that infantes are acceptable vnto God that they shoulde bee reckoned of him in the couenant of the Church and that therefore the seale it selfe of the couenaunt shoulde not bee denyed vnto them Answeare First I say probably that they are to be thought acceptable vnto God by euerlastyng election in Christe of which this is a testimony sufficient enough that he would haue them to bee borne of godly parentes Nowe the fitnesse of this testimony leauyng vnto God those same particular secret iudgementes doeth appeare out of those playne wordes of the couenaunt I will be thy God the God of thy seede Wherevppon also the Apostle gathereth that euen they are holy who are borne eyther of their Parentes beeyng a beleeuer Moreouer they please God also in the person of their Godly Parentes euen to a thousande generations as God witnesseth in the lawe Exod. 20. 125. Question But this is a promyse of the lawe and we entreate of the couenaunt of the Gospell Answeare I graunt it but thou must remember that all the promises of the Lawe in Christ who for vs fulfilled that same condition of the Lawe are become promises of the Gospell and confirmed to all beleeuers 126. Question But thou doest not accompt these infantes in the number of beleeuers whereupon it foloweth that no place is left to infantes for this same promyse of the Lawe Answeare Naye that foloweth not For the fayth of the Parentes from whome he is borne doeth come betweene Question Wilt thou therefore haue children saued by the Fayth of another that is to say by the Fayth of theyr Parents Answeare It is plaine that the Faith of others and the prayers of those that are holy doeth profite many vnfaythfull to mittigate their punishmentes yea also the conuersion of Saule teacheth that the gyft of Fayth may bee so obteyned for some if their opinion be true who haue written that this was graunted by the prayers of Steuen Notwithstanding I would not easily say that any shoulde bee saued by an other mans Faith least any man shoulde so take mee as if I shoulde say that the Fayth of the Parents is imputed to Infantes as it were beleeuing through an other mans faith which in very deede is no lesse false and absurde then if I shoulde say that any man could lyue by an other mans soule or be wyse by an other mans wisedome But certainely this I may say truely that the Fayth of godly Parentes comming betweene it is brought to passe that the Infantes either borne or to bee borne are holy that is to say are reckened in the couenaunt and therefore are saued Wherof that thou mayest doubt nothing tell mee I pray thee wherevppon doeth Fayth laye holde Doeth it not laye holde vpon that which the promise conteineth which is the obiect and ground of Fayth it selfe Question Yes verely Answeare Therefore the Fayth of godly Parentes doeth laye holde vpon this promise Gen. 17. I will be thy God and the God of thy seede both for them selues and for their seede Nowe this promise is as muche as this I doe make a couenant of saluation with thee and with thy seede 127. Question Therefore shoulde all bee saued that are borne of godly Parentes Answeare Surely wee doe not without cause presume that they are saued as those which seeme probably to be comprehended in the couenant and that by no faigned coniecture But in meane time this nothing at all preiudiceth the secret and particular iudgements of God and it is playne that they are shutte out from the couenant who whē they come to yeares of discretion shake off through vnbeleefe that same grace 128. Question But when thou sayest that the thinges signified in Baptisme are sealed by fayth onely what shall wee say to be sealed in infants who when they are baptized are not replenished with any fayth in deed and to those that are deade before they can bee taught the fayth Answeare Surely wee doe Baptise them as though they shoulde ouerlyue others Nowe that which I haue spoken cōcerning fayth belongeth onely vnto those that are come to the yeares of discretiō yet theyr baptisme shal not therefore be in vayne For that shal bee ratified in them that as I haue sayd the fayth of the godly Parents comming between was nowe bestowed vppon them when they were borne to witte the engraffement into the couenaunt and therefore the forgiuenesse of sinne sinning and finally the whole fruite of Baptisme To conclude that same solemne naming by the commaundement of Christe of the father the Sonne and the holy Ghoste cannot be in vaine neither are the praiers of the Church which are conceaued ouer him which is too bee baptized in vayne But let these thinges be subiect vnto the iudgement of the Church For neyther am I ignoraunt that it may also be sayde that fayth is so geuen vntoo them by power as by power and not by act and vse they are endued with a reasonable soule But I haue shewed what semeth most probable vnto me neither doeth the diuersity of opinions in this matter shake or weaken the Christian fayth it selfe 129. Question Forasmuche as certayne olde Fathers attributed very much in this cōtrouersie to the faith of the Parents and of the Church whence I pray you came this questioning doest thou beleeue I beleeue Doest thou forsake I forsake Answeare I am not ignoraunt howe diligently Augustine studyed wryting too Bonifacius too excuse this kynde of vowing and promising then vsed in the Baptisme of Infantes But who seeeth not that this beganne from hence that that which was woonte to be saide and doone in the Baptisme of those which were growen of yeeres of discretion were by the negligence