A Deliberat answere made to a rash offer which a popish Antichristian Catholique made to a learned protestant as he saieth and caused to be publyshed in printe Anno. Do. 1575. Wherein the Protestant hath plainly substantially prooued that the papists that doo nowe call themselues Catholiques are in déed Antichristian schismatiks and that the religious protestants are in deed the right Catholiques VVritten by Robert Crowley in the yeere 1587. LONDON Printed by I. Charlwood and are to bée sold at the signe of the black Beare in Paules Church yâ—rde 1588. Falts escaped in the print In the 7. leafe and in the last line of the first page in the first of the second page reade thus innocencie of life for not continue in ignorance c. In the 9. leafe and 15. line of the first page reade thus and not let vs haue peace And in the last line saue one of the second page reade thus they are all become vnprofitable In the 10. leafe and 14. line of the second page read thus traxerit In the 16. leafe and 6. line of the first page read tend for bend In the 25. leafe and 12. line of the second page read conuenticles In the 26. leafe and 18. line of the 1. page read fasts for feasts In the 27. leafe and 9. line of the 1. page read cases for causes In the 31. leafe and 12. line of the eight Offer read at all times the continuance c. In the 36. leafe 7. line of the 2. page read such for those In the 39. leafe last line saue 4. of the 1. page read Qui pridie In the 50. leafe and last line saue 6. of the 2. page read at any time In the 53. leafe and 29. line of the 1. page read which are not c. In the 55. leafe and 33. line of the 1. page read perceiue by that c. In the 72. leafe 12. line of the 1. page reade Linus In the 75. leafe and 1. line of the 1 page read or doth seeme to bee In the 77. leafe and 1. line of the 1. page this woorde them is to much In 78. leafe 4. line of the 2. page read admonition In the 80. leafe 22. line of the 1. page read they for then In the 81. leafe in the title of the 1. signe read of false prophets In the 84 and 20. line of the first page read some of them contrarie to the expresse c. ¶ To all and singular popish Recusants SVpposing that all such papists as do refuse to ioyne with vs in the profession and exercise of religion and are therefore called Recusants be of one the same minde with that popish Offerer that first wrote these Offers and did publish them in print I haue thought it a thing very meete to request the same Offerer if hee bee yet liuing and all the rest that bee of his minde to afforde mee so much fauour as to reade ouer their owne Offers and that answere that I haue made therunto I trust you will not deny mee this request for your Offerer hath in the end of euery part of his Offer vsed these words or the like prooue this then I will relent and recant not before I know that ther be many amongst you that are worshipfull wise and learned such I hope will not blemish their worship wisedome and learning by fore-iudging ought that is or shal be written in answere to any Offer that any of their minde hath or shall make and require answere thereunto I doo not require any of you to giue credit to that which I haue written before you haue tried the same and found it worthy of credit And therefore I haue set ouer the heads of the pages of this my booke this admonition First trie and then trust If you shall finde that I haue sufficiently prooued all those thinges that your Offerer requireth the protestant to prooue then I hope you wil redily performe those Offers that he hath made And if you shall finde any insufficiency in mine answeres I hope that some of the learned on your side will vse some meanes whereby I may haue knowledge of that insufficiency And in the word faith of a Christian I doo promise you that what soeuer any of you shal write touching this matter I will reade it deliberatly and without all parciall affection with earnest prayer to the almighty for the direction of his holy spirite whereby I may be stayed from straying out of the way of truth I know that there is but one way to euerlasting life I doo know that Christ only is that way if any of your sort therefore can make it plaine vnto me that your popish Catholique church dooth walke in that way then will I leaue that way wherein wee protestants doo walk and runne with you for I tell you truly that none of you can haue a greater or more earnest desire to enter with the Bridgrome Christ then I haue and as I hope shall haue to the end My pen would gladly proceede in paynting my paper with moe sentences to the like effect but I haue thought good to stay it for that I doo persuade my selfe that you doo think the time longe before you can take in hand to performe that request that I haue herein made Frare you well From my house at S. Gyles without Creplegate of London The Lord Iesus direct you in all that you shall doo Amen Ianuarie 16. An. 1587. Your well willer Robert Crovvley The deliberate aunswer that Robert Crowley a Protestant Christian hath made to that rash offer that a popish Antichristan Catholique made to a learned Protestant Imprinted in Dovvaie as he saith Anno Domini 1575. Crowley IN the yeere of our Lord. 1586. there came to my handes by what meane I doo not well knowe but by the prouidence of God I am sure a certaine booke that had béen imprinted and published in Doway in Fraunce in the yéere 1575. in the Englishe Tongue That booke is intituled A notable discourse plainely and truely discussing who are the right ministers of the Catholique Church written against Caluin and his disciples by one Maister Iohn de Albine called De Seres Archdeacon of Tolossa in Fraunce Wherunto are annexed certaine Offers made by a popish Catholique to a lerned ProtestaÌ„t c. This booke lay by me as a thing whereof I made small accompt tyll the moneth of May in the yéere .1587 When hauing by occasion more spare time then in long time before I had or could haue I tooke this booke in hand and did deliberately reade ouer both the booke and the offers I found both the booke and the offers to stuffed with coulour of pietie trueth and sinceritie that I coulde not but thinke that the hauing of this booke in secrete hath béene one great cause of the Apostacie of so many young men as haue in late yéeres fallen away from the pure profession of the
Christ which was 70. yéeres after as it is supposed that Peter was made bishop of Rome So that the church vsed none of those things that were diuised by him for the space of those 70. yéeres of the first 300. yeeres After this Alexander Sixtus 1. was made bishop of Rome in the yeere 121. after the incarnation of our sauiour Christ if the hystories bee true and the fourescore yeere after the supposed entring of Peter into the Byshopricke of Rome This man diuised sundrie things as Sanctus sanctus sanctus to bée songe in the celebration of the Lords supper But heere I must note how vnlikely this is to bée true for as saint Augustine hath written in the 7. August li. 9. Conf. Ca. 7. Chapter of the 9. booke of his confessions the custome of singing in churches was not begun in the Latine church before the dayes of Ambros who liued about the yeere of our Lord 380. And more ouer it can not bee prooued by any hystories that the Christians had any liberty to builde any church in the citie Rome before the time of Constantine the Emperoure who builded at his owne charges the first churches that the Christians had in Rome But let it bée as Platina hath written in the life of Sixtus the first Hée commanded that Sanctus sanctus sanctus that is holy holy holy should bee songe in the celebration that is in the ministration of the cōmunion But I pray you marke what Platina saith further Nuda primo haec erant c. At the first those things were bare and naked and all thinges were handled simply For when Peter did consecrate hée vsed the prayer Our father Iames the bishop of Hierusalem encreased or enriched these mysteries and so did Basill and other For Celestinus gaue the Introite of the Masse Gregorie the Kyrie eleison Telesphorus the Gloria in excelsis Deo Gelasius the first gaue the Collations and Hierome the Epistle and the Gospell Haleluia was taken from the church of Hierusalem The Credo from the counsell of Néece Pelagius inuented the cōmemoration of the deade Leo the third inuented the Incense Innocent the first inuented the kissing of the Paxe And Sergius ordained that Agnus Dei should bée songe But séeing that in the daies of Sixtus fewe were founde by reason of the often murders or slaughters of Christians that durst professe the name of Christ and the Christians in France did desire to haue a bishop Sixtus did send vnto them one Peregrinus a citizen of Rome c. Thus far Platina By these woords of Platina it appeareth that during the first 80. yeeres after saint Peters supposed entring into the bishopricke of Rome there was no more vsed in the ministration of the Lords supper but the Lords prayer which beginneth thus Our father which arte in heauen c. Celestinus that gaue the Introite of the Masse was not bishop in Rome before the ende of 420. yeeres after Christ so that for the space of 420. yéeres your Masse had no Introite That Gregorie that appointed the Kyrie eleison was made bishop of Rome in the yéere 590. after Christ so that your Masse lacked that parte for the space of 600. yeeres almost Telesphorus added the Gloria in excelsis about 130. yeeres after Christ so that your Masse did lack that parte so longe time Gelasius the first that diuised the Collations was bishop of Rome about 490. yeeres after Christ so that your Masse lacked hir Collations almost 500. yéeres Hieronimus that added the Epistle and Gospell was neuer bishop either in Rome or else where Hee liued in Bethlehem about 380. yéeres after Christ so that your Masse had no Epistle or Gospell for 380. yeeres after Christ And your Halleluia was taken from the church of Hierusalem by Gregorie the first who was bishop of Rome about the yéere of our Lord 590. The Nicene Créede could not be vsed before that councell wherein it was agréed vpon which was 330. yeeres after Christ And Pelagius that inuented the remembrance of the deade was made bishop of Rome in the yeere of our Lord 556. so that for the space of so many yeeres after Christ there was no remembrance of the deade in your Masse Leo the third that inuented the burning of Incense was made bishop of Rome in the yeere 796. after Christ so that for the space of so many yeeres there was no burning of Incense in churches Innocent the first was made bishop of Rome in the yeere 406. hée inuented the kissing of the Paxe at Masse so longe therefore was your Masse without that ceremonie And Sergius that appointed the singing of Agnus Dei was made bishop of Rome in the yeere after Christ 694. or there about so that your Masse lacked hir Agnus Dei for the space almost of 700. yeeres after Christ Now M. Offerer consider with your selfe I pray you whether the learned Protestant may not as easily prooue the antiquitie of his communion booke euen from the Apostles time as you may prooue your Authenticall seruice and ministration of sacraments now daily openly practized If you would with indifferent iudgment weigh al that I haue here written I doo not doubt but you would cōfesse that during the first 90. yéeres after Christs ascention there was no prescribed order set downe in any booke for publike seruice or ministration of sacramēts other then that which is contained in the scriptures Wherefore there is none so great a cause of misliking in oure common booke as that there be so many of your latter inuētions allowed of in it And surely if our princes people would yéelde to a perfect reformation wee might make our communion booke a great deale lesse then it is by blotting out of it all that hath bin inuented by your bishops of Rome Thus I doo thinke I haue said enough to cause you to recant although you would not before The twelfth Offer Offerer I demaund of the learned Protestant to know cause and reason why their congregations doo admit and receiue all bishops priests deacons and other officers spirituall ordered by our Catholike church as men lawfull and sufficient to preach the word of God to minister the Sacramēts to exercise all spirituall iurisdiction in no lesse wise but rather more then if they had bin ordred in their owne congregations whereas the Catholike church of Christ dooth not acknowledge any man of their ordering and calling to be any whit the more fit for any spirituall function in Christ his church then other cōmon lay men When therefore the learned Protestant shal be able to shew good cause and reason why our Catholike church hauing by their owne consent and approouing lawfull priestes bishops and spirituall ministers not to be also the lawfull true and Catholike church of Christ I will then recant and not before Crowley This Offer is altogither friuolous and foolish For what reason was it that mooued this vnreasonable Offerer to require the learned
commit the chiefe charge and supreme gouernment of his Church c. Is altogither vnnecessarie for neuer did any of that sorte affirme that to bée true Wée doo all know that our Sauiour Christ did not call Emperours Kings Quéenes nor Princes to make them his messengers or Apostles but he called Fisher men and such other and made them able and méete to doo his message euen to Princes and Emperours and to all other the greatest personages in the world As saint Paule writeth 1. Cor. 1. 1 Cor 1 Quae stulta sunt mundi elegâ— Deus vt confundat sapientes c. God hath chosen the foolish things of the world that hée might confounde the wise and God chose the weake things of the world to confounde the stronge and the base and dispised thinges of the world hath God chosen yea and those thinges that bée not that hée might destroy those thinges that bée Yea and wée doo know that God did not prepare the hearts of the Princes and chiefe men of the world to receiue the doctrine of the gospell with the first so that the Apostle Paule had occasion to write thus to the same Corinthians 1. Cor. 1. 1 Cor 1 Videte vocationem vestram c. Brethren consider your calling for there are not amongst you many wise men after the flesh not many mighty not many of noble Parentage c. Yea in the daies wherein Saint Augustin cliued which was 400. yéeres after the ascention of our sauiour Christ it séemed a strange thing euen in the City of Rome that any man of any account in the world would become a Christian man For when Victorinus a famous Rhethorician in that City would professe the Religion of Christ and be baptized hée did it as Saint Augustine hath written Confessionum lib. 8. cap. 2. Mirante Roma gauâ—â—nte Ecclesia August lib 8 Cap 2 Rome meruelling and the Church of Christ in Rome reioyceing There is therefore no cause why you shoulde require the learned Protestant to prooue by plain Scriptures that our Sauiour Christ did commit the chiefe charge and supreme gouernment of his Church to Emperors c. But this the Protestants doo hold and are able to prooue by plaine places of the Scriptures that Emperors Kings Quéenes Princes Dukes and all other Potentates are the supreme gouernours of those peoples ouer whom God hath placed them whether the same people bée by profession Christians or Miscreants Yea and that the chiefe charge that euery of these Potentates haue from God is that they shall in their owne persons walke in the Lordes wayes and leade their people in the same And for that cause they are in the Scriptures called Pastores that is Shéepeheards as in the 44. Cha. of his Prophecies Esay 44 Esaie speaking in the person of God saith Qui dico Cyro Pastor meus 〈◊〉 omnem voluntatem meam complebis That is Which doo say vnto Cyrus thou arte my Shéepeheard and thou shalt fulfill all my will Cyrus was an Heathen prince and yet the Lord calleth him his Shéepeheard and commaundeth him to fulfill all his will and pleasure King Dauid being a Shéepheard in déede was taken from the Shéepefold and made king ouer all Israell that hée might féede that people of the Lord euen as a Shéepeheard féedeth his flocke And hée did rule them prudently with all his possible powre Psal 78. Psalm 78 And that these Potentates might bée able to discharge that duety that the Lord God hath appointed them to doo hée hath giuen vnto them the powre of the Sword as in the 13. Rom 13. Chapter to the Romaines it appeareth Principes saith Saint Paule non sunt timori boni operis sed mali c. Princes are not to bée feared of them that doo well but of them that doo euill Wilt thou bée without feare of the Potentate Doo well and thou shalt bée praised of him For hée is Gods minister to doo the good But if thou doo euill then feare him for hée beareth not a Sword for nought Hée is Gods minister to take vengeance on him that dooth euill c. At that time wherein the Apostle wrote those woordes to the Romaines there was not one Christian Prince as it may bée thought in all the world And yet hée dooth certifie the Romaines that euen those heathen Princes were ordained of GOD for the benefit of Christians as of all other sortes of men that world bend them selues to walke in hys wayes and not contynue in ignoraunce of lyfe And for the punishment of all such as should giue them selues to leade a dissolute life Yea and it belonged to the office euen of those Princes not onely to vse the powre of the Sword in defending Innocents and in punishing wicked doers but also to set foorth aduaunce and maintaine right and true Religion as in the holy Histories it dooth appeare that they did as often as by any occasion their hearts were touched with the feare of GOD As Darius the Persian Emperour when hee had séene the mighty powre of GOD in preseruing Daniell in the Lyons den did hee not write immediately to all his subiects commaunding them to feare to stand in awe of Daniels God confessing him to be the lyuing and euerlasting God that his kingdome powre is euerlasting and that it is hée that deliuereth and saueth worketh woonders both in Heauen in Earth Daniel 6. Daniel 6. The same Darius as it appeareth in the sixt Chapter of the first booke of Esdras coÌ„maunded that the Temple in Hierusalem which had bin destroyed by the Babylonians should bée reedified as king Cyrus had commaunded and that it should bée furnished with all things necessary and meete for the seruice of God 1. Esdras 1. 6. 1. Esd 1. 6 And amongst the good kings of Israell and Iuda Dauid not without a secret motion from God I am sure did cause the Arke of Gods couenant to bée brought to Hierusalem and placed in a Tabernacle which hée had prepared for it there yea and in his owne person hée vsed all such behauiour as might tend to the setting foorth of the glorie of God and abase him selfe in the sight of God and at his owne charges hée caused much sacrifice to bée offered to the Lord and afterward hée blessed the people of the Lord and gaue rewards of meate drinke to euery one of them as well the women as the men As appeareth in the sixt Chapter of the second booke of Samuell which you call the second of the kings 2. Reg. 6 And I pray you good M. Offerer who was hée whom God appointed to build his Temple in Hierusalem was it not Salomon the king And did not hée builde it in déed and furnish it according as the Lord had coÌ„maunded him Tertij Reg. 5. c. And who reformed Religion destroied the Idols that king Achas had caused to bee set vp in the Temple was it
not his sonne Ezechias And did not the same Ezechias brake the brasen Serpent 4. Reg. 18. bicause the people had burned Incense to it Yea and when the Priestes did any thing in the reformation of Religion did they it not by the appointment and at the commaundement of those good kings Dauid Salomon Ezechias and Iosias Reade the History of the kings and you shall sée And what did Christ come to take this Authority from Princes And hath hée taken it from them and giuen it to Peter and his Successors Hée him selfe hath acknowledged that authority in Princes in that hée payde Tribute to the Emperour both for him selfe and for Peter Math. 17. In the 13. Chapter to the Romaines Math 17. saint Paule declareth that the paying of Tribute is an acknowledging of the highest authority in Princes Chrysostome Chrysost in Rom. 13. expounding that place of Saint Paules Epistle writeth thus Cur enim inquit vectigalia Regi damus Nunquid tanquam prospicienti Nunquid tanquam praesidenti curae tuitionisque mercedem soluentes For why saith hée doo wée giue Tribute to the king Doo wée not giue it as vnto him that hath a prouident care for vs Doo wée it not as men that pay vnto him that hath the rule of vs the wages or hyer that is due to him for the care that hée hath to defend vs 1 Peter 2 And dooth not Saint Peter from whom your Bishops and Priests doo claime their high authority write thus in the second Chapter of his first Epistle Subdite igitur estote c. Bée yée subiect therefore to euery humaine creature euen for the Lords cause whether it be to the king as to him that excelleth either to Dukes as to them that are sent of him for the punishment of euill dooers but for â—he praise of them that bée good For so is the will of God that behauing your selues well you may stop the mouthes of foolish and Ignoraunt men as being free and not hauing the liberty for a cloke of maliciousnes but as the seruants of God Thus if you haue eyes to sée you may sée that the very testimonies that you haue alleaged being taken in their right sence doo prooue sufficiently that though no learned Protestant can prooue or dooth or hath affirmed that our Sauiour Christ did commit the chiefe charge and supreme gouernmeÌ„t of his Chruch to Emperors kings c. Yet the chiefe charge sepreme gouernment of men of all sorts hath bin alwaies is still and euer shal be in such Potentats euen by the ordinance of God him selfe as by the other testimonies that I haue alleaged dooth most manifestly appeare And where as you require the learned Protestant to prooue that any one of Christes Apostles or Disciples did by preaching the Protestants doctrine conuert any people lande or countrey from their Idolatry and Ethnike kinde of liuing to Christian faith and Religion as of onely faith to iustifie c. I say that neuer any one of the Apostles or Disciples of Christ were the meanes that God vsed in the conuerting of any one lande people or countrey by the preaching of any other doctrine then that which you call the Protestants doctrine You note sixe points of doctrine preached by the Protestants which as you say neither the Apostles nor any Disciple of Christ preached First that faith onely iustifieth Secondly that all good works are vncleane in the sight of God Thirdly that there is no frée will Fourthly that the body of Christ is not really present in the Eucharist Fiftly that the blessed Masse is not a Sacrifice And sixtly the abolishing of Christes Sacraments and all the graces and goodnes that is conferred to vs by them For the first I say that Christ him selfe hath taught it in that hée hath sayd thus Mar. 16. Qui crediderit baptizatus fuerit saluus erit Qui vere non crediderit coâ—demnabitur Marci 16 Hée that shall belieue and bée baptized shal be saued But hée that shall not belieue shal be condemned Saint Paule hath taught it to the Romaines Chap. 5. Rom. 5. in these woords Justificati ergo ex fide pacem habeamus ad Deum per Dominum nostrum Iesum Christum per quem habemus accessum per fidem in gratiam istam in qua stamus gloriamar in spe gloriae filiorum Dei. Being iustified by faith therefore let vs bee at peace with God through our Lord Iesus Christ by whom wée haue accesse through faith into this grace wherein wée stand and doo reioyce in the hope of the glorie of the children of God To take from you all occasion of quarrelling I haue cited the words of S. Paule as I finde them in your allowed latine translation Although I doo know that in the gréeke it is thus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Pacem habemus And not habeamus Wée haue peace and let vs not haue peace but to a simple meaning minde the sence is all one whether wée say wee haue peace or let vs haue peace And in the end of the sentence it maketh no difference to say wée glory or reioyce in the hope of the sonnes of God or wee reioyce in the hope of the glory of God For take it which way yee will Saint Paules meaning must néedes bée that wée are iustified that is wée apprehend and lay hold vpon frée discharge of our sinnes that wée haue by the mediation of Christ onely by faith and by none other meane And againe in the second Chapter to the Ephesians Ephe. 2. Saint Paule writeth thus Gratia enim estis saluati per fidem hoc non ex vobis Dei enim dâ—num est non ex operibus ne quis glorietur For by grace that is frée mercy you are saued thorough faith and that not 〈…〉 selues For it is the gifte of God and commeth not of workes least any man should boaste The Epistles of the Apostle Paule are full of matter to prooue this pointe of doctrine to bee true The second pointe of doctrine is as you doo terme it the contempt of good workes and that they bee all vncleane in the sight of God Wee contemne not good workes but wée esteeme of them as they ought to bee esteemed of that is as of the good fruites of a good faith And wée teach that no workes may bée accounted good otherwise or in any other respect but as they bée the fruits of a good faith This point of doctrine was taught by our sauiour Christ when hée sayd thus Lucae 17. Cum feceritis omnia quae praecepta sunt vobis Lucae 17. dicite serui inutiles sumus Quod de buimus facere fecimus When yee shall haue doone all that you are commaunded to doo then say we are vnprofitable seruants We haue doone that our duety was to doo And againe in the 20. of Mathew Math. 20. in the Parable of the labourers that laboured in the Vineyarde Volo autem
assisted mee but all men left mee alone God graunt it bee not layde to their charge c. If this Offerer his fellowes haue any eyes to sée they may sée that when the Apostle Paule being in prison in Rome did write this Epistle to Timoth. the Bishops and priests that then were in Rome were scarce worthy the name of Christians bicause they durst not stand to the profession of Christian Religion as S. Paule did but left him all alone betraying the Christian cause as much as in them lay Yea and hereof it may bée probably gathered that Peter was not then at Rome and consequently that hee was not Bishop of Rome for the space of xxv yéeres togither as the Romish Catholiques doo affirme that hee was Yea rather it may bée thought that hee neuer was Bishop of Rome for this Epistle was written in Rome the 13. yeere of the raigne of Nero which was the 35. yeere after saint Paule was conuerted to Christ But if hee were then Bishop of Rome hée was at that time either fled from Rome fearing the persecution or els being in that Citie hée durst not shew him selfe to bée of one minde with Paule and so by his example the rest that then were Christians in Rome withdrew them selues from Paule and left him all alone Thirteene yeeres before this the Apostle Paule had written to the Romaines being then at Corinth in the last yeere of the raigne of Claudius the Emperour And as it appeareth in the first Chapter of that Epistle the fame of that Church was such at that time that saint Paule wrote thus Primum quidem gratias ago Deo meo Rom. 1 per Iesum Christum pro omnibus vobis quia fides vestra annuntiatur in vniuerso mundo First of all I giue thankes to my God thorough Iesus Christ on the behalfe of you all for that your faith is declared through out the whole world The Church therefore or Congregation of Christians that then were in Rome were of the best sort of Christians And bicause that Citie was then the chiefe City that then was in the world therefore the fame of their faith was spred ouer all the world But yet as appeareth by that which is before alleaged they had their faults and infirmities which were seene in them more at one time then at another At the first when they receiued the doctrine of the gospell they were earnest professors and followers of the same as commonly men haue bin in our daies and are still but when persecution began to arise for the professing thereof they began to shew them selues to bee like that seede that being sowne fell in stony ground and yet being againe moystened with that dew of Gods grace which fell from aboue they tooke déepe roote and so became more fruitfull in the ende For many of that age gaue their liues for the testimony of the truth and were Martirs or witnesses of Iesus Christ as in the Church Histories dooth appeere But that these were the writers of the Scriptures appeareth not in any Histories for they were written before some by the Prophets and some by the Apostles and such bookes as were written after the time wherein the other Apostles liued were written by the Apostle Iohn which liued after all the rest As touching the especiall care that you say the Catholique Church hath from time to time had not only of preaching the word but also of preseruing the same c all learned Protestants doo know that no man could haue greater care to preach the woord to discerne the bookes of holy scripture from prophane writings and to preserue them from the corruption of the aduersaries then they that in the time of the tenne first persecutions professed the Catholique religion And amongst those Catholiques none were more forwarde therein then were they which then were dwelling in the City of Rome But what maketh this for proofe that the Romish Church hath alwaies bin and is still the keeper and preseruer of the scriptures The first Romish Church which was Catholique preached the gospell as the Apostles and Disciples of Christ had doone but that Romish church that now is and hath bin for the space of these last thousand yéeres almost being Antichristian dooth and hath all this while preached mens traditions is to bee noted with that saying that the Prophet Esay vsed in reprehending the Leuiticall Priestes of his time Esay 29. Esay 29. Cited by our sauiour Christ Math. 15. Math. 15. Populus hic labijs me honorat c. This people honour mee with their lips they draw nighe vnto mée with their mouth but their heart is farre from mée In vaine doo they worship mée in teaching the doctrines and commaundements of men c. The first Romish Church vsed the Sacraments that Christ had instituted religiously and to that end that our sauiour Christ had instituted them for but that Romishe Church which you call Catholique hath for the space of these 1000. yeeres almost and dooth still abuse those Sacraments namely Baptisme and the Supper of the Lord commonly called the Sacrament of the body and blood of our sauiour Christ For that Church dooth minister that sacrament to Churches to Belles and to Ships that saile on the seas and of the other sacrament they make an Idole lifting it vp ouer their heads to bee worshipped setting it vpon their high alter or hanging it ouer the same burning incense before it and vsing iestures of diuine honour before it and carying it abroade in pompous maner compelling the people to doo diuine honour to it Yea they offer it vp to God as a sacrifice for the sinnes both of the quick the dead and in tempests of weather and in coniurations they make it a bug to feare the diuell withall The first Catholique Church in their exercise of Religion did vse as few Ceremonies as might bee for they knew that our sauiour Christ had broken downe that midle walle or particion which was the lawe of Ceremonies contayned in the lawe written and had through the flesh bin the occasion that discord whereby the nations of the worlde were so seuered from the people of Israell that they could neuer ioyne with them in one religion till our sauiour Christ had made it voyde and made of both the people 's but one new man making peace that he might reconcile both in one body And Ephe. 2. Ephe. 2. But your Romish Catholique Church hath reedified a new middle walle or particion of a law of Ceremonies not contayned in the law written but diuised by men And that particion they doo still maintaine and vphold enforcing all men that will beare the name of Christ and bée called Christians to allow of and to vse those Ceremonies and all such as doo refuse those Ceremonies they doo excommunicate and deliuer to the secular powre to bée consumed to ashes with fire or otherwise to bée tormented onely bicause they refuse to vse
of one church For the darknesse is no more contrary to the light neither falshoode to the truth nor the deuill to God then the doctrine of Swenkfield and of the Anabaptists is to the doctrine of Luther Caluin and Zuinglius But this is the drift of this Offerer To beare the world in hand that wée Protestants doo holde maintaine euery point of doctrine that is contrarie to or diffreth from that Antichristian doctrine which hée his fellowes doo call Catholike and that wée haue none other authors of our religion but these whom hee hath héere named such like Vndoubtedly hée is heerein very much disceiued For although wée doo for good cause like very well of the iudgment of some of these men that bee heere named yet wée haue not sworne to belieue all that they haue written neither yet anie one woorde that they haue written further then they haue by the scriptures made proofe of that which they haue affirmed in writing Wée are not Lutherans Zuinglians nor Caluinists but wée are Christians as in our opinion Luther Zuinglius and Caluin were They were of one minde with S. Austen that desired no credit further then hée prooued his assertions by scripture I pray you therefore good M. Offerer offer vs not such discurtisie as to cause the world to conceiue such an opinion of vs that wée holde and maintaine wée care not and knowe not what Wée thanke the Lord our God wée are not ignoraunt what wée doo and what Christians ought to belieue and wée are ready and able to render an account of the hope that is in vs. And our God hath made vs able to iudge of the spirites and to discerne the spirite of truth from the spirite of errour And by that gifte of our God wée are made able to sée that your spirite is the spirite of Antichrist and your religion Antichristian And that the religion that wée doo professe is Catholique and the same that was professed and practized euen in Rome for the space of 300. yeeres and more next after the ascention of our Sauiour Christ And where as you require the learned Protestant to prooue that these sectes being so diuers c. or any of them do giue saluation to theyr fellowes and that you ought to béeléeue them all or any one of them we leaue to your selfe to be discussed at your leasure For we knowe that no companie or societie of men hath any power to giue any saluation neither to others or to themselues that no man is bound to beléeue another farther then hée dooth knowe that the same hath and dooth speake and write the trueth I sée no cause therefore why you should not yéeld and recant although the learned Protestant neither can prooue nor will take vpon him to prooue the thing that you haue so impudently required him to prooue The sixteenth Offer Offerer Sixteenth When the Protestant shal be able to prooue that those persons which in theyr departure made frō the Catholique Church of Christ haue more desire to beare the name of Sectaries as of Lutherans Zuinglians Illerians Caluinistes Swenkfieldeans Anabaptistes thē the name of Christians or Catholiques are the true members of Christ his Church and not Heretickes and Schismatickes nor yet followers therein of theyr fathers the Arians whych tooke theyr names of Arrius the Maniches of Manes the Nestorians of Nestorius the Nouatians the Vigilians the Iouinians Pelagians Eutichians and others then I shal yeeld and recant and not before Crowley Let the Protestant make the lyke offer and so the one offer shall be a sufficient answer to the other When the Antichristian Catholique shal be able to prooue that suche persons as doo desire rather to be called Fraunciscans of Fraunces Dominicans of Dominicke Benedictines of Benedict Augustiniās of Augustine Barnardines of Barnard Brigettines of Briget and so foorth of all the seuerall orders of Friers Monkes Chanons and Nunnes rather then by the common name of Christians bee true members of Christes Catholique Church and not Sectaries Heretickes and Schismatickes nor yet followers of theyr Fathers the Arrians which tooke theyr name of Arius c. Then will the Protestant yéelde and recant and so become an Antichristian Catholique and not before A man might meruaile to sée the blindnes of this Offerrer that could not sée howe easily this balde offer of his might be turned backe vpon himselfe Yea there is much greater reason to mooue any man to thinke that the Monkes Friers and Chanons Nunnes and others of the Popish religious persons doo desire to be named after the first founders of their religions then that they which do fauour and followe the doctrine of Luther Caluine or any other doo desire to be called by the names of them whose doctrine they followe or fauour For were it not that such as doo mislike with the doctrine of Luther and the rest doo in dirision call the fauourers of that doctrine by the names of those chéefe teachers of the doctrine wée should not amongst thousands finde one that would giue any of those names to himselfe But the Popes religious persons doo for the most parte blot out of memorie the names that were giuen vnto them when they were baptised as Frier Iohn Frauncis Minime of Nigion in Fraunce was called Debnam by hys Progenie and kindred whereof he came and at his Baptisme the name Samuell was giuen vnto him I thinke it will be hard for this Offerer to prooue that this is not a flat renouncing of Christ and Christendome For in this new name not onely the progenie of his naturall parentes is renounced but that religion also that was professed when he was baptised and in that new profession that he hath made thereis no promise made of obedience to Christ or vowe to obserue Christian religion but to obay the Father Prior and all the superiours in that order and to obserue that rule of S. Frauncis order If this be not a flatte forsaking of Christ then vndoubtedly no man can forsake him And what may bée thought of you Antichristian Catholiques Doo not you forsake Christ where you chuse a man to bée his Vicar generall captiueing and submitting your seuerall meaninges to the iudgement of your Prelates and spiritual gouerners and of one chéefe heade and pastor amongest those Prelates and that in all Ecclesiasticall thinges and causes Well I would wish you to remember your selfe better and to consider from how good loouing and faithfull a shéepheard you are gone astray and by howe many waies hee hath and dooth still séeke to bringe you home againe to hys shéepfolde the right and true Catholique Church consider that you haue willingly wittingly and wilfully made your selfe captiue to the greatest enimy that your shéephearde Christ hath or can haue Make hast to returne your shéepeheard will with ioy receiue you Your sinne is great in forsaking such a shéepheard and yet not so great but it may be pardoned Repent and beléeue the
yéeres and more But to let this Offerer and his fellowes see wherein they be disceiued I will adde some thing to the which I haue written there making it manifest that this Offerer and his fellowes did depart from vs and from our Church before wée did depart from them and their church They departed from vs and our Church without cause but we did departe from their Church for iust cause When S. Iohn wrote these woords Ex nobis prodierunt c. 1. Ioh. 2. They went out from vs but they were not of vs c the church of Rome was Catholique Christian Holy and Apostolike They therefore that did then depart from them were Antichristian and Schismaticall and were not of them whilse they were amongst them and therefore they did not tarie with them And you and men of your sorte are they that in the daies of Phocas the Emperor did openly departe from our Catholique church became a schismaticall Antichristian church or rather Synagogue of Satan persecuting the true Catholique church of Christ continually from that day to this Wée therefore being amongst you till it pleased God to open the eyes of our vnderstanding so that wée might see the abhominations of your Antichristian religion were not of you and therefore wee did departe from you not leauing our Faith and Religion wherein wée were baptized for wée were baptized in the name of Christ and not of Antichrist For though God haue suffered you to diuise many toyes which you doo vse in the ministration of baptisme yet hee would neuer suffer you to alter the institution of that Sacrament for you doo still baptise in the name of the Father of the Sonne and of the holy Ghost And therefore wee seeke not to bee rebaptized knowing that the baptisme which wee receiued at your hands is as effectuall as that which wée our selues doo minister to our Infants Wee are not therefore departed from the true Catholique church of Christ but from your Antichristian church and wee are returned againe to that true Catholique church from which your sorte departed when Boniface the third tooke vpon him that Antichristian name of vniuersall bishop And vs that were borne amongest you yee haue kept from our deere mother and haue enforced vs to taste of the poysoned mylke of the dugs of that purple clothed Whore your Damme of Rome But our louing Father hath in his good time by his good meanes brought vs out from amongst you and restored vs againe to our good mother his deerely beloued spouse the true Catholique Holy and Apostolike church out of whose plentifull Dugs wee doo daily sucke the swéete pleasant healthsome mylke that feedeth vs vnto euerlasting lyfe This mother that wee are returned to is that romish Catholique church that was in the dayes wherein Saint Iohn wrote those woordes that you take holde of From hir did you departe bicause you were not hir naturall chyldren but Bastards borne in hir house but not of hir housholde and therefore like a Bastardly broode you went out of hir house and became most bloodie persecutors of hir children and so you haue continued for the space now of a thousand yeeres almost yea and so you doo continue still By the mercifull goodnes of our Father working in vs by his holy spirite wée doo now belieue as the children of our mother then in Rome did belieue They belieued then that there is but one God the hath made all creatures and him they glorified in the vse of his creatures and they gaue thanks to him alone for those creatures and studied to serue him onely in spirite and with spirituall seruice flying from th' example of the Heathen nations that presumed to counterfaite his maiestie by Images Ro. 1. Rom. 1. and so doo wée They belieued and confessed that all men are sinners that no man can iustifie him selfe before God bicause no man can so kéepe the law of God but that his owne conscience shall condemne him as a transgressor therefore they did cleaue to the mercie of God and so doo wée They belieued that they were iustified that is discharged of their sinnes fréely by faith without the déedes of the law and yet they thought themselues bound to doo all that God had and should make them able to doo in obseruing fulfilling of the law and so doo wée Rom. 2.3.4.5.6.7 Rom. 2.3.4.5.6.7 They belieued that God making choise of them had in mercie made them his owne children by adoption inheritors of his kingdome heires annexed with his onely begotten sonne Christ Iesus and hereof they were assured by the spirite of Christ which was giuen vnto them cried in their hearts Abba-pater Father Father so doo wée Ro. 8. Rom 8. They belieued that this election choise was made in the fore knowledge and purpose of God before they themselues were and so consequently before they either had or could doo good or euill and so doo wée Rom. 9. Rom. 9. They belieued that as they were by the free mercie of God Adopted Predestinated called iustified and acquited of their sinnes and in Gods predestination glorified and made like to the Image of his onely begotten sonne Christ Iesus Rom. 8. Rom 8. so their dutie was to bée carefull to leade a righteous life before men and not to bee bolde to commit sinne bicause God had in mercie discharged them of sinne but to liue in a reuerend awe and feare of his iustice as they that would shew them selues continually thankfull for his mercie in making their owne bodies a Sacrifice to God liuing holy and acceptable to God as their reasonable seruing of God Rom. 10.11.12 Rom. 10.11.12 and euen so doo wée They belieued that their duetie was to submit them selues to all such as God had set ouer them in authoritie to obay them not only for feare of punishment but for conscience sake also knowing that who soeuer resisteth the powre resisteth the ordinaunce of God dooth purchase to him selfe damnation And they belieued that their duetie was to giue euerie man his owne and to vse louing behauiour towards all men knowing that loue is the fulfilling of the law And that being baptized they had apparelled them selues with Christ and that they ought to walke and continue their liues in holinesse and in honestie not making prouision for the flesh to satisfie the lusts thereof Rom. 13. Rom. 13. and euen so doo wée They belieued that although God had giuen them libertie in the vse of all his creatures yet their duetie was to haue a continuall regarde to the infirmitie of their bretheren and not to vse any of those creatures to the offence of any of them Rom. 14.15 Rom. 14.15 and euen so doo wée They belieued that they togither with all other Christians els where in any parte of the worlde were fellowe members of one bodie in Christ and vnder Christ alone acknowledging no vniuersall head of
gospell and haue imbraced and professed and doo still professe most vnpure Popish religion The booke was first written by the aboue named Iohn de Albine as it may be thought either in the Latine or in the French tonge Wherefore I meane not to bestow any time in the answering of it supposing that either Beza or some other French Protestant hath already dealt therein sufficiently But because the offers séeme to be made by some English man and haue not as I thinke béene aunswered by any man I haue thought good to supply the place of that learned Protestant that the Popish Catholique ment to make the offers vnto And that the Offerer if hee be yet liuing or any fréende of his if he be departed this lyfe may not haue any cause to mislike with my dealing herein I minde to setfoorth to the view of the Reader all the words of the Offerer euen as I finde them and as I haue them to shew in his printed Coppie which I haue and doo mind to kéepe in a readinesse to shewe not abiding or dimnishing altering or changing one sentence worde sillable letter or title The Offerer beginneth thus The Offerer First seeing it cannot bee denied that our sauiour Christ before his departure and ascension did commit the charge and gouernment of his Church the testimony of his worde the truth of his gospell the ministration of his Sacraments to his Apostles and Disciples and that not only for them selues but to their successors Bishops and Priests and to none other saying only to them Euntes docete omnes gentes Math. 28. Marc. 16. Goe yee and teach all people and nations of the world baptizing them in the name of the father and of the sonne and of the holy ghoste teaching them to obserue and keepe all things which I haue commaunded you Further the Apostle Saint Paule being at Miletum in executing of his charge gouernment gaue this admonition to the Bishops and Priestes there assembled before him saying Attēdite vobis et vniuer so gregi Act. 20. Take heed vnto your selues and vnto the whole flocke of Christ in the which the holy ghost hath ordayned you Bishops Regere ecclesiam Dei To gouerne the Church of God And in the thirteenth Chapter of his Epistle to the Hebrews hee dooth commaunded all other sortes of men without exception of Emperours Kings Queenes and Princes to obay their Bishops and priestes saying Heb. 13. Obedite praepositis vestris subiacete eis ipsi enim peruigilant quasi rationem pro animabus vestris reddituri Obey your Prelates and doo what they appoint you for they doo watch as men that shall render accomptes for your soules Seeing that by the testimonies before alleadged it can not bee denyed but that the charge and gouernment of Chryst his Church the preaching of his doctrine the admninistration of his Sacramentes was by him committed to his Apostles and Dysciples and to all Byshoppes and Priestes as Successours of them to plante Chrystian fayth and Religion in his Catholique Church vniuersally throughout all Nations Coastes and Quarters of the world Seeing this is by the playnnesse of the sayd testimonies of such an vndoubted truth that it cannot bee denyed now let the learned protestant affirming princes to bee the supreme heades of the Church eyther shew by some such other like playne testymonies of the Scriptures that our Sauiour Chryst did commit the chyefe charge and supreme gouernement of his Church to Emperours Kings Queenes and Princes to plant Christian fayth and Religion in the same or that any one of Chryst his Apostles or Disciples did conuert any people Lande or Countrey from their Idolatrie and Ethnike kinde of liuing to Christian faith and Religion by preaching the doctrine of the Protestants as of onely faith to iustifie the contempt of good workes and that they be all vncleane in sight of GOD the deniall of free will of the real presence of Christes body in the holy Eucharist of the Sacrifice of the most blessed Masse the abolishing Christ his Sacramentes and of all grace and goodnesse by them conferred vnto vs then I shall yeelde and recant and not before Thus farre the first part of the Offer Crowley This Offerer hath deuided this offer of his into 22. parts adding to the last part six certaine and assured signes and tokens of false Prophets Heretickes Schismatickes This diuision I meane to follow in mine answer To this first part therfore I say thus maister Offerer I cōfesse that our Sauiour Christ dyd as you haue sayd committe the charge and gouernement of his Church the testimonye of his worde the trueth of his Gospell and the ministration of his Sacramentes to his Apostles and Scholers and to theyr successors But not to such successours onely as you do name that is to Bishops and Préestes onely and to none other For S. Paule in the 12. Chapter of his first Epistle to the Corinthians and in the 4. to the Ephesians writing of the same matter sayth thus Et ipse dedit quosdam quidem Apostolos Eph 4. quosdam autem Prophetas alios vero Euangelistas alios autem Pastores Doctores And he hath giuen some Apostles or Messengers and some Prophettes and other some Euangelistes and some others Pastors and teachers And againe in the 12. of the first to the Corinthians hee writeth thus 1 Cor 12. Et quosdam posuit Deus in Ecclesia primum Apostolos secundo Prophetas tertio Doctores deinde virtutes exinde gratias curationum opitulationes gubernationes genera linguarum God hath place in his Church certaine degrees of men first Apostles secondly Prophets thirdly teachers then powers after that giftes of healings helpes gouernements kindes of tongues Least you should quarell about the translating of S. Paules wordes out of the Gréeke I haue set them downe as I finde them in that translation that your Tridentine councell hath allowed of But I pray you good M. Offerer what meant S. Paule that in the rehearsall of those sundry degrées of men that God hath placed in his Church he would make no mentiion at al of your Bishops and Préestes to whom onely as to the onely successours of his Apostles and Disciples Christ spake if you haue written truely when he sayd thus Math. 28 Euntes docete omnes gentes Goe ye and teach all nations of the worlde c. Without all doubt S. Paule dyd know and so doo wée that God dyd neuer place in his Church or appoint to succéede his Apostles and Disciples any such Bishops and Préestes as you meane of That is Lording and loitring Bishops exercising dominion ouer the peoples that are alotted vnto them and sawsie sacrificing Préests which presume to occupie the place of Christ himselfe and to execute his office in offering sacrifice for the sinnes of the people S. Peter disaloweth the one 1. Pet. 5. and S. Paule the other Hebr. 10. Hebr 1◠1 Peter ◠Yea if our