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A86890 A rejoynder to Mr. Drake or a reply unto his book entituled, A boundary to the holy Mount. VVhich being approach'd, is found so dreadfull, that the people do exceedingly quake and fear, lest they be consumed. By John Humfrey Master of Arts, and minister of Froome in Somerset-shire. Humfrey, John, 1621-1719. 1654 (1654) Wing H3705; Thomason E1466_2; ESTC R208675 155,461 285

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it that is by way of moral action per modum objecti as grace is still both begotten and confirmed in other Ordinances It is manifest there is no danger here of advancing this Ordinance above its nature or condition but there is very much danger of being injurious to poore Christians of dis-valuing this means of Grace the sweet Jesus has appointed us of bringing in question how it can beget any degrees of grace at all if it cannot the first and especially of being very presumptuous with the Spirit of God to goe to limit him in the very same way he ordinarily works the same effect in his other Ordinances To come now to Mr. Drakes opposition p. 154. He first tels us Some Divines indeed do hold Baptism to be a means of Regeneration but they should not and he does not Answ I agree with him as for Infants But for the Intelligent Johns Baptism may convince him whom we find admitting all to it and then exhorting them to amendment as the use or end of it and therfore it is not said they repented unto baptisme but they were baptised unto repentance The end cannot precede what is in order to it and the effect in esse be before the cause in operari And as for his instances in the Acts That faith was presupposed It is answered That is an historicall faith onely accepting the doctrine of Christ and profession thereof as is beyond dispute to me in Simon Magus P. Ibid. In regeneration the Word is writ in our hearts and can any man make the seal a cause of the writing Answ He may as well aske can any writing be a cause of it selfe But here is the mans error still The seale of the inward writing in mens hearts is not the Sacraments but the Spirit and that seale I hope is the cause of the writing and that by the means of the outward writing and seale the Word and Sacraments Page 155. He produces my Argument The Sacrament is a visible Gospel the shewing forth the death of Christ is the means of conversion But the Sacrameut is a shewing forth of his death Ergo. His Answer is This proves onely that all may be present which he pleads for not actually receive Answ Methinks the heart of a godly man should at first scare serve him thus to shift and trifle with this holy Ordinanee and the Consciences of people And yet his granting this is enough for so long as he maintains that as the Sacrament holds forth Christ to the eyes there is none may be debarred from the sight no more then they may be debarred from hearing where he is held forth to the eare I argue Then as Christ is held forth Sacramentally to the taste and touch there is none can be debarred to wit if intelligent Church-members from the tasting and feeling of him herein then they can from the seeing of him or hearing Nay our force for this is rather greater because the words of institution expressely respects the touch and taste while Christ saies this is my body not barely to see and hear but to take and eate As the Centurion by looking on Christ upon the crosse beleeved he was the Son of God So did Thomas by feeling his wounds beleeve his Resurrection And I doe not doubt but that all these senses doe afford their grounds of suitable meditation about the melting objects of Christs Passion Redemption and tender mercies so represented they may become means to worke upon us through the Spirit of God which we may piously hope for by vertue of an Ordinance For if Mr. D. say Page 147. What the word applies by one sense the Sacrament doth by all senses and therefore is a more powerful means of assurance I will not doubt to say by the same reason as it applies the same thing with the word it may have the same operation and as faith comes into the heart at first in the one by hearing alone it may in the other by hearing seeing touching and tasting altogether Page 156. He brings in my next Argument In the institution there is a Take and Eat a Take for such as have not Christ a word of grace to quicken those as an Eat to nourish others My substance is Here is a free offer and command in this word Take and we are not to hold it ineffectual He excepts Taking and Eating call for acts of faith and presuppose the habit Ans When Christ and his Disciples preached Beleeve and repent The command did call for faith and repentance but I hope it did not presuppose the habit in those who were to be converted so when Christ sayes here Take that gracious word includes Beleeve or receive me by faith but faith I hope is required where it is not pre-required to wit required that it may be wrought as well as acted And herein indeed I place my strength This Take requires Beleeve but there is a vertue or power from Christ that goes along with his commands The free tenders of himselfe are the conveyances of the grace he requires to the receiving him even as the Apostles words to the Jaylor Act. 16.31 which he well notes Beleeve in the Lord Jesus Christ was the instrument to worke that faith and convert him And as while Thomas by feeling Christs wounds beleeved why might it not be the vertue of Christs gracious command bidding him to put his fingers in his sides and beleeve that produced that powerful application My Lord and my God Now we have Christ here likewise presenting his broken body and blood and bidding us feel his wounds touch and taste Take and eat be not faithlesse but beleeving Here we have a joynt offer and command and why then should we distrust the power of our Lord when we have the word of our Lord What if we had but that one word for us were not one word from the mouth of our deare Saviour which is a standing word to his Church enough to rest upon Truly Christians Let me plead with you Are the words of Christ Spirit and life or are they not Is there any power goes along with the tender offers and precepts of the Gospel or is there not If there be not why do poor dead souls wait on them for life If there be then why is there not the like power expected in this precept and offer of grace How dull and flow of heart are we to relye upon Christ and expect vertue from his commands Methinks I could wish that all faithful Ministers would set themselves to beleeve in Christ for this effect and while they should as it were stand round about this little word Take by their acting faith in Christ and expectations from him as the Disciples did about Paul when they supposed him stoned dead Act. 14. though they judge no otherwise of this word though they suppose it but a dead word to the unregenerate they might finde life in it for the quickning of their flocks as some
have something to put in Who knows not if men be in a journy or sick they keep from the Church on a civil account with the like Thus does his silver become drosse his wine mixt with water and instead of an Amphora currente rotâ you have an earthen pitcher For his other instances I am willing to grant as I have but now express'd my self where there are scandals 1. Notorious that they offend the Congregation,2 So open that they need no proof or debate,3 In the present fact so that no repentance can be pleaded such may be dealt withall as ipso jure Excommunicate If you shall demand of me a substantial proof for yielding thus much I must answer you the Church is of age ask it What she in prudence hath allowed I am ready to think there may be good reason for though I know it not We are to make the fairest construction and it may be she would hereby teach her Children to account revere and dread the ground or cause of Excommunication no lesse than the censure of it Yet if any here shall make use of this confession of mine to the tendernesse of others so poorly as Mr. Drake does of the un-intelligent to plead against me only what I yield to them as it will be an argument of their weaknesse so shall it fortifie me with one proviso more which Christs example does afford that though I grant that such as these thus strictly set down may be kept off for the present yet are we to chuse to do that still in Christian prudence which is like to tend most to the parties reformation the peoples good and the honour of God His fourth is upon these words of mine If any come in as professing c. p. 16 17 18. Here he overreaches the word As I say not All that come do make me profession I think there is no necessity of it much lesse that the Minister is to seek after an Evidence of their sincerity which were a burden to break his heart but I say Every one that comes in comes as a professor His very comming is a profession of his covenanting with Christ. Even as the Souldiers repairing to his Colours is an acknowledging his Captain and Office So is our repairing to Christs Ensignes our profession of him the pledge whereof is the Sacrament For his appeal to my self then I answer I stand not on a verbal but a vital profession and this is either Real the search whereof I leave only to God or Visible and such is their comming Church-membership without this incapacity is all the evidence we can look after To admit any Heathens into Church-membership requires their declaration or confession but as for Church-members I say this is their profession to wait on their duty I do acknowledge a profession and a signified profession our Church was wont to secure this by the Creed which I think were good still to be used yet dare I not say any other way of that signification is absolutely necessary than this comming only for I desire to know where in the Gospel after initiation into the Church there is any other signification of mens being Professors than their bare meeting or assembling themselves together at the Ordinances So that if pious sober men shall yet think it necessary to presse some trial and declaration of the faith of their Congregations to them it can be urged only upon the account of laying a ground for Reformation and then for ought I see they must begin at Church-membership and not at the Sacrament For Mr. Drakes own undertaking it is notable Let the people but maks their profession before the Eldership and we shall undertake to fit them for the-Sacrament c. See p. 58. and there he addes unto this In a few months our end being the preparation of all sorts we dare undertake to fit the meanest Now I pray compare this with his language of me p. 92. where I having said I endeavour this only Doth he not know quoth he that one fit or worthy must be 1. Converted,2 Unblameable,3 Actually prepared Lay this together and you shall see the feats of this man that will regenerate you a Congreation make them unblameable and actually prepare them of all sorts within a few months At least he will warrant you before he has done with them if they will but submit to be ruleà by him His last exception is at my doubtfulnesse on the part of the Receivers p. 16. His words indeed are too Masterly but the difficulty is serious I perceive in his judgement he makes this no question but that while a man finds himself unregenerat he must keep away though he has examin'd himself and prepared for it I dare not run down this stream with him Our rule is this let a man not onely let the regenerate man examine himself and so let him eat not so let him abstain Some interpret the words Ita probet ut abstineat Let him examine that if he be not worthy he must forbear Others it a probet ut etiam edat Let him examine but so also that he eat I encline to the last my ground is this If a thing be evil because it is done it must be avoyded but if it be not evil in the substance of the thing as no precept can be but for the defects of the Doer the thing still must be done and the Doer reformed If to avoid this Mr. Drake say this is not his duty I pray God forgive me or forgive him for I think it a grievous presumption to make void a command of God through his tradition Sect. ANd here I might keep close but I will open my soul for it is melted like water which I am ready to pour out before the feet of Jesus Christ or any of his servants that will gather it up I find the temper of most tender Christians when they search their hearts for an habitual preparation required to this Sacrament they resolve into doubts about their comming For while our Divines do as it were strive to lay down the most searching marks of these graces and our poor frail hearts cannot reach up to them which the more strict we judge usually the more spirituall they begin to fail us and if we go on we are ever convinc'd of the want of them and so doubt of our unworthinesse Now if we must hold the Sacrament to be a means of grace only to the Regenerate and that none may come without these Sacramental graces or thus habitually prepared we cannot approach to this holy Table but the terrors of the Lord must fall upon us as trembling to be guilty of the blood of Christ and eat our damnation O sir It may be the Lord has cleared your interest that you can lay the hand of your faith upon Christs shoulder and say he is mine and in the confidence of David Gilead is mine Ephraim is mine Manasses is mine this mark is mine and
return evil words I humbly answer if this do not conclude against him yet does it conclude against them I more intended to convince than him when some cannot afford the Sacrament at all to our mixt Churches I may truly tell Mr. Drake it was no intent of mine to dispute with him or offend any but that we might sit under our own Vines and drink of the Wine thereof with our people in peace without these sour grapes being put into it P. 55 56. He instances the Rubrick and Exhortation in the Book of Common-prayer which I believe little thought to be made use of to this purpose Ans For the Rubricks allowing the Minister to suspend some notorious evil livers I take it upon the account of ipso jure Excommunicate the end being exprest to satisfie the Congregation For the Exhortation whereas it mentions only heinous sins If any of you be blasphemers adulterers in malice or any grievous sin c. we may distinguish happily between sins that cannot stand with sincerity which no wilfull sin we hold can or with profession as Church-members it may be it reaches not the first but the last upon the former account While a man is guilty of that deserves a censure if convicted he may humbly sentence himself unto a more solemn repentance before he comes and give no offence But if you apply it to all known sin I am willing to take it as matter of prudential advice onely with godly Mrs before in this sense If any of you are actually in some sin unrepented of as malice c. you may forbear this Sacrament at present so long as you resolve to prepare your selves against the next But if you shall wholly refuse to come you are to know how sorely you offend God upon these terms to neglect his Ordinance But for Mr. Drake now methinks he should blush to produce me this authority which himself despises I would wish him seriously to ponder their former Exhortation with this and therein weigh these words as given us from their experience Whereas you offend God if you do refuse his holy Banquet I admonish you that unto this sin you will not adde any more by standing by as gazers and not partaking your selves of it This makes the fault much greater and is a farther contempt having the mysteries of Christ in derision Is it not said Take ye and Eat Take and Drink ye all of this With what fate then shall you hear these words Will not this be a neglecting despising and mocking the Testament of Iesus Christ P. 56. He acknowledges this practice of his were against the well-being of a true visible Church if the Lords Supper were a privilege due to all members Ans I think herein his cause is yeelded to all cleerly but what we have excepted for there is an Inward right or privilege to this Ordinance which is invisible we here speak not of and Outward or visible right and that is Church-membership As for the subdistinction of this to be more remote or immediat found out by some we cannot receive without warrant from Scripture I pray look unto the Passeover what gave a man right to that See Exod. 12. Every circumcised person shall eat thereof There was nothing but a mans entring into the visible Iewish Church was the ground of his admission Turn to Acts 2.42 What gave those 3000 right to continue in breaking of bread as doctrine but only that they were added to the Church by Baptism and immediatly this fellowship belongs to them See 1 Cor. 10. 16 17. The Sacrament is the Communion or token of our Communion in Jesus Christ Now I argue If every Church-member in statu quo is in Christ Io. 15.2 externally a partaker of his blood so as to sanctifie him Heb. 10.29 and redeem him 2 Pet. 2.1 then he has I hope an immediate right to that which is but a token hereof So long as he is in communion how can he be debarr'd the Communion These outward things must go together and you must cut him off Relatively from communion with Christ or the Church be you can deny him the outward pledge of his profession While he is in the body he may partake of the body The Church is the body of Christ and so long as we are one body we are one bread and partakers of that one bread There needs even nothing here methinks but drawing the curtain and you see it day all abroad P. 56. Good Government lies in the Geometrical not Arithmetical administration of censures c. Ans Mr. Drake does well to speak for himself for if there be any thing in this good Government he means hangs by Geometry it is this suspension while he places it in the air between Admonition and Excommunication As for his argument from the greater to the lesse we know it holds not but in things of the same kind Now Excommunication is of divine institution but where will you find his suspension so that his Reason truly is this Because he may exercise that which is a Church censure allowed in the Word which is the greater therefore he may set up that which is no Church censure which is the lesse The casting scandalous persons out of the Church with due caution is I think of Divine right but the Excommunicating a man from one Ordinance so that he is still a Church-member otherwise is to me an opinion upon the hearth unturn'd The lump is the Church and I see not how the leaven can be said purged out while it is a part of it Excommunication therefore I judge does properly respect Church-society in general or Church-membership and all the Ordinances Relatively as I take it An Excommunicated person I doubt not may be admitted to some Ordinances as the word and it may be prayer as the Church thinks fit to do him good while he is kept from others as the Sacrament yet is he not to be accounted hereby a Church-member He may come to hear in the state of a Heathen as the word is published to all Mar. 16.15 But as the Word is a Sealed Word and belongs with distinction of privilege to the Church he is Relatively cut off from his interest in it So that he is to reckon himself for all this common favour as one externally cast off from the Church and all her Privileges that the terror thereof may drive him to repentance and bring him home And upon this account only of being Relatively out of the body do we juridically debar him as I hold communion of the body Pag. 57. Because suspension is not mentioned in Scripture therefore Mr. Humphreys will have it expunged as if because a man will not be gained by words there were no other way but presently to knock him on the head Ans 1. I pray let all tender Consciences take notice that this thing distinctly contended for with such strictnesse is confessed in tearms not to be in Scripture2 Whereas the whole
the Magistrate what follows The total consequence is this where we have no ground to Excommunicate any we must Administer and hope the best of it where we have we must hope the best and do that The best is to be hop'd in doing what we ought but the worst is to be feared in doing what we ought not or cannot prove 4. I know God can turn the worst even at this Ordinance if he please This he counts true but he questions his will and requires of me some promise or president for it For promises we have sufficient Am. 5.4 2 Chr. 15.2 Mat. 7.7 c. We find every where God has promised in general that he will vouchsafe grace to those that wait upon him in his Ordinances Seek ye me and ye shall live Now then let any shew me an exception in particular against this Sacrament or else these promises stand good Truly Sirs You do not deal justly and honestly with this Ordinance to detain from her that portion of grace and power the Lord hath ●●uchsafed in co-partnership amongst her fellowes and put her to the charge and labour of suing for it when you might as well serve Prayer and some of the rest so but that the keeping their stock in your hand will hardly turn to any advantage to you The common Law here we will try her right by is this Quicquid praedicatur de praedicato praedicatur etiam de subjecto While she is a fellow Ordinance with others she must have her share in the general nature as they are all appointed the means of Gods bestowing his grace so that here it manifestly lies upon you to shew some special text to the contrary where Converting grace is denyed to it or else in justice you are cast For a President I humbly blesse God I am not wholly neither left without witnesse but we may have one to produce in its place And I could wish that searching men would enquire a little and seek after these things and I doubt it not but they would find such experiences and effectual impressions on many at this Ordinance when unmoved at others that as the Jews wondered when they heard the Gentiles also received the Holy Ghost so should we at such clear convictions of the Sacrament being a means not only of the regenerate but unregenerates edification 5. I endeavour my utmost de jure that all come prepared Upon this he reviles two or three pages whether spitefully against conscience or ignorantly himself knows 'T is true de facto as to his whole course and series of actions as he has it No man can say he does his utmost and Mr. H. as he note well lesse than any but I say De jure to exhort men to examine themselves and forewarn them of the danger of neglecting their duty is all the Minister can do which himself grants where there is no Presbytery Yet herein I say not neither I do this which every one commonly does but I endeavour it onely and in the very next lines too acknowledge my many Omissions But if it be Mr. D's design to make me seem vile and proud to the world and he dare take upon him to become the searcher of my very heart even in such confessions to the contrary Be thou O Lord my Witnesse while he takes the throne and will be my Judge And though he be so extreme against me to mark what I have done amisse in what never came yet once into my thoughts yet be not thou so extreme against me or against him but cover all my failings and his injuries with thy Mercy and my charity 6. I humbly confesse all our sins as Hezekiah desiring true repentance and a pardon for all our omissions This he sayes he cannot but approve in me after his heavy reproaches but would have you note here a contradiction If he have done his utmost De jure what needs he desire pardon for his omissions I answer for my failings De facto in particular though I should have done in generall what De jure I ought to do which yet I dare not assume to my-self without flying to ●●ds mercy if you carp at the words I value them not take my own meaning which I have truly told you and Christ himself I humbly blesse him teaches me to satisfie you When you have done all or your utmost say you are unprofitable servants 7. And so lastly I venture the issue all on God knowing his Ordinances are a sweet savour unto him whether we are saved or perish by them He excepts this is not enough A Physician may not give Physick that may kill or cure and venture the issue on God Ans But if the Physician 1. saw a necessity,2 and had no other way,3 and hoped it might do good c. then he might conscionably do it without question or else I beleeve he would be hardly able to answer himself what some Church-yards may have to say against him Mr. D. must take these seven particulars together as bound up in one reason and then they will hold him but if he goes to pull out the single sticks there is no doubt but they may be broken It is not enough to trust in God confesse our sinnes hope the best alone who does not see this but if it be also our duty and we have no power otherwise c. Take all together and they are irrefragable And therefore I pray compare himself hither p. 47. and see how willing the man is to take exceptions I think if he saw his own face in my glasse he would be ready to quarrel at it His own confession is this By a particular forewarning the Minister may clear his own soul I conceive where no Government is setled c. And do not I suppose we have no Government and the Minister forewarn all though as to particular cases there must go much prudence and I hold no necessity according to his Conscience and therefore why should he lay such vile expressions on me for what he allows Does he say he may clear his soul and may not I say he is innocent Should I return now no mortal man can say he is clear and so fall upon him in his loose terms about justifying himself which he does often would not every one see how weak were that cause has need of such supportments and would it not render me flat to those that fear God No I shall rather blesse God for what is yielded and think it worth both our labours as it was a main scope of mine if this be but satisfied I shall reverence the care zeal and pains of Mr. D. wherein he says he does so far exceed me in fitting all sorts by examination counsel and prayer yet must not approve his ground on which he does it If he will tell his people As you are Church-members I cannot deny communion with you though in Christian prudence only I would humbly thus and thus advise you I