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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A19150	Epphata to F.T., or, The defence of the Right Reuerend Father in God, the Lord Bishop of Elie, Lord High-Almoner and Priuie Counsellour to the Kings Most Excellent Maiestie concerning his answer to Cardinall Bellarmines apologie, against the slaunderous cauills of a namelesse adioyner, entitling his booke in euery page of it, A discouerie of many fowle absurdities, falsities, lyes, &c. : wherein these things cheifely are discussed, (besides many other incident), 1. The popes false primacie, clayming by Peter, 2. Invocation of saints, with worship of creatures, and faith in them, 3. The supremacie of kings both in temporall and ecclesiasticall matters and causes, ouer all states and persons, &c. within their realmes and dominions / by Dr. Collins ...	Collins, Samuel, 1576-1651.; Bellarmino, Roberto Francesco Romolo, Saint, 1542-1621. Apologia.	1617 (1617)	STC 5561; ESTC S297	540,970	628

be deposed by none but only by the grand-master of the Family which is God in the world as the Steward in the State is the King by analogie Not but that his meaning is as trayterous as euer for he vnderstands it of his Pope but I suppose Your MAIESTIES name was partly fatall to giue him light which is the character of Supremacy engrauen in you by God and partly it confirmes my opinion of him that if Your MAIESTES Bookes and rare trauailes in this cause out of which we all take that now write any thing had been but read of him when he was young and afore he was embondaged in this damnable preiudice he would haue yeelded to the spirit and power which they are fraught with acknowledged your proofes submitted to your reasons admired Your MAIESTIES cor linguam and finally thanked God for him his conuerter whom now he is faine to endure his confuter But longa dies quid non captiuat making vs as S. Chrysostome sayes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to preferre euen garlicke before Ambrosia But although not he froward as he is yet there are others infinite both forreiners domesticks that profit by Your MAIESTIES peerelesse writings daily not onely to the enlarging of their skill and knowledge whereof your Works may seeme to be an Vniuersall Seminarie but to their redeeming from ruine which Vn-subiection drawes to and building them vp to euerlasting saluation in the world to come with quiet mindes and content in this present which before they wanted And truely our hope is that the Rights which Your MAIESTIE shall transmitt to your posteritie as nobly cleared by Your pen as euer they were wonne by your Auncestors swords will both breed much peace to the Land in generall and great security to Your royall offspring the inheritours confusion to the aduersaries and barkers against Soueraignty euen as long as either learning shall be held in price or a man shall be left aliue to reuolue bookes Whereof because this worke pursues the remainders and treads the same way though in a most improportionable distance once againe imploring Your MAIESTIES sacred Patronage worthie to be a Sanctuarie to a greater trespasser both out of Your loue to the cause and out of Your loue to the coate which is so great and so gratious as no fame will be so niggard but to record it to the furthest ensuing ages I beseech the GOD of ALL things euen for his deare SONNES sake which is our hope and our glorie defending Your MAIESTIE and by Your MAIESTIE defended to accōplish his rare Graces vpon Your MAIESTIES Royall Head Or in stead of augmenting them to adde but this one more blessing to the many that he hath multiplied super virum dextrae suae super Regem 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 eundemque Phil-ecclesiasticum in whome no bodie could euer discerne any cause of doubt saue onely whether Your zeale to the Church or to the Clergie were greater euen PERPETVITIE and AETERNITIE the Imperiall style and patrimonie of Kingdomes in the most Orthodoxe language Your MAIESTIES most humbly-bounden and deuoted seruant in all dutifull and gratefull subiection S. COLLINS TO THE READER BEfore I come to the maine matter I thinke it not vnfit Courteous Reader to acquaint thee a little with the conditions of the man against whome this is intended for intending against one so much better thē himselfe to vse no more then Dauids phrase about the murthering of Abner by vnmanly violence and butcherly force which base circumstances no doubt encreased the tragedie of that worthie Champion in the opinion of Dauid And surely so it is A noble hand eases much a grieuous stroake insomuch as Tullie bemoanes the Common-wealth of Rome in one place that shee was not so happie as to be borne downe by valiant aduersaries but cowards gored her and sotts insulted ouer her and foxes and recreants ran vpon the battlements of her as the Prophet complaines Serui dominati sunt nostri saies Ieremie Slaues haue ridden ouer our heads Not that I would haue the glorious Faith of our LORD IESVS CHRIST to be held in the partiall respect of persons which S. Iames forbids where Baronius saies Kings are secretly nipt at and why forsooth but for the description of the man with the gold ring whereas now we may find pearles vpon the Popes shooes S. Iames beeing so farre from nipping Kings in that Epistle that as if he had foreseene that one of his own name should lead the field in time to come against the impugners of Soueraigntie he giues the onset so well as to call that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which he meanes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Kingly or the royall Law vnderstāding the Diuine not so then Nor that I would not haue all to open their mouthes of what sort soeuer in the cause of God and his holy truth it is not we that exclude Eldad from prophecie or Medad from consultation but Bellarmine that blesses them with Populus qui extra est non nouit legem and therefore maledictus The people which is without they are accursed But yet me thinks some decorum would be obserued in these conflicts and though all cannot be coped with by their matches in worth as Kings by Kings as Alexander said for the sword deuoures now one now another and so Bishops by Bishops which the auncient Canons haue a speciall care of that euery rakeshame should not challenge a Bishop no not a Priest saies S. Paul vnder some store of witnesses yet modestie might be kept and faire dealing maintaind and respectiue warre of both sides nourished that which wants in other points to make euen the encounters beeing supplied by humility and courtesie and moderation as the Masters of the prizes are wont to equall the weapons of the combatants afore they begin From which this man is so farre that like the Orators in Tullie who the worse they spake the lowder they cried whom therefore he compares to lame riders that not able to goe on foote would needes be prauncing on horsebacke so he mends his stature by a false shooe as it were and as another Publican after Matthaeus Tortus climbes the sycomore of his owne wild fancies to ouerlooke the croudes or like the painters boy that beeing to paint Helen cùm pulchram pingere non posset pinxit diuitem so what he lacks in learning he laies on load in lies in taunts in tearmes and in abominable raylings Which for my part I cannot see what effect it is like to haue with the iudicious Readers if at least any such cast their eyes vpon these pamphlets for we are not ignorant to what kind of people they are consecrated then to strippe them quite of all credit and euen pitch them ouer the barre like forlorne lawyers for not caring what they say nor of whome they affirme as the Scripture prophecies of such like fellowes in one place that their owne tongue shall

EPPHATA to F. T. OR THE DEFENCE of the Right Reuerend Father in God the Lord Bishop of ELIE Lord High-Almoner and Priuie Counsellour to the KINGS MOST EXCELLENT MAIESTIE CONCERNING HIS ANSWER to Cardinall BELLARMINES Apologie Against the slaunderous cauills of a namelesse Adioyner entitling his Booke in euery page of it A Discouerie of many fowle absurdities falsities lyes c. Wherein THESE THINGS CHEIFELY are discussed besides many other incident 1. The Popes false Primacie clayming by Peter 2. Invocation of Saints with Worship of creatures and Faith in them 3. The Supremacie of Kings both in Temporall and Ecclesiasticall matters and causes ouer all states and persons c. within their Realmes and Dominions By Dr. Collins chapleine to HIS MAIESTIE Apoc. 18. 7. Giue her Torture PRINTED BY CANTRELL LEGGE Printer to the Vniuersitie of Cambridge 1629 TO HIS MOST SACRED MAIESTIE IAMES By the grace of GOD King of Great Britaine France Ireland Defendor of the Faith our most Soueraigne Lord of God beloued c. MOST GRACIOVS and DREAD SOVERAIGNE MAY it please Your MAIESTIE out of your Princely Clemency which exceeding all things yet enclaspes the least to vouchsafe to these poore labours true Benoni-es the sonnes of my sorrow so many disasters haue annoyed them from the wombe and some with the perill of their parents life the skirt of your royall cloathing or but the shadow of your skirt Acceptance with Patronage Vndertaken at first by your MAIESTIES commandement for the repulsing of the lewde slaunders of a namelesse Papist and to redeeme the credit of a renowmed Bishop but continued to the confirmation of Your MAIESTIES leige people in their Reiligion to GOD and their Obedience to your MAIESTIE with all subiection In quibus duobus vniuersa Lex pendet Prophetae to speake it in his words whose doctrine it was most yea whose onely errand it was as Hegesippus testifies I meane in seeking the face of GOD and his IACOB as some euen Papists haue noted vpon that Psalme that they are distinguished there not without cause and the one is consequent or to be consequent to the other But not so the Cardinall the more too blame he a maine stickler in these Controuersies after the Pope and the Pioners that encomber the world and I know not by what lucke though Ceruini generis animal yet Your MAIESTIES audacious concurrent in the cause Who if he were younger perhaps hee might be borne with either fancying his superstitions or fostering his seditions As the Stoicke Philosopher was wont to say that a young man at Sea if hee abandon the Shippe to walke ashoare a while and either digge some roote or gather some shell which the Sea casts forth there is no danger in it but in an olde man it is dangerous whome death and sickenesse and sundry casualties may preuent from euer recouering ship againe Yet he in his deuoutest meditations of all other his booke last set forth de Aeterna Faelicitate will not excuse Kings from beeing murthered de iure not onely de facto onely hee passes it ouer as a casus omissus happily because anouched in his other Volumes more peremptorily Of another minde was his Vnckle of whome hee brags in one place contesting with your MAIESTIE though S. Chrysostome note that S. Pauls sisters sonne of whome there is mention in the Acts was neuer a whit the blesseder for his Vnckles vertue and as it may seeme neuer any good came of him saue onely that he reuealed the Iewes conspiracie against Paul which this man would rather defend the concealing of but Marcellus secundus of whome I was saying witnesse the Historian that alleadges friendship for more faith and some intimitie wit●d●im In animo habuerat omnem militiam à se prorsus abigere ipsos etiam corporis custodes exauctorare whereas Bellarmine lately vrged this Pope to draw the sword if fame say true his Vnckle not admitting of necessarie Defence if it were forcible cum illud saepe repeteret multos principes viros non tam armis defensos quàm signo Crucis c. himselfe hauing been lately Cardinall Sanctae Crucis And in particular of the Pope Pontificem maximum neutiquam indigere aut scutis aut gladijs indeede Athanasius remooues all iron from the Apostles and S. Austen will not haue them strike though they may carrie weapons ferre ferrum but not ferire satiusque esse ipsum si res ferat occîdi quàm tam indecorum exemplum praeberi Ecclesiae namely as for the Pope either to handle a sword or giue allowance to others at his direction so to doe So as no maruell if the same man considering the practises of such as were Popes in his time clapt his hand once vpon the table protesting in great earnestnes that it seemed impossible for a Pope as things then went to be saued And another saies it was the voice of almost all men in those daies that a Pope could not be saued when this Marcellus came to it I know not what cōtentment the Cardinall may take in his new skarlet-additions which they would make vs beleeue he accepted of so lothly but for my part I should thinke one day of his Vnckles as Tullie saies of Antonie compared with his grandfather were more to be desired then a whole age of the Cardinalls lending his pen and bending his wit to the defence of such trumperies and which is worse of such treacheries as are now in vre with them the dislike whereof and onely intended Reformation cost his Vnckle his life and that in very short space after he came to the Popedome Of whome because I haue said so much almost before I was aware I will not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 trouble Your Royall eare as that Councell speakes which forbids Clerks to disturbe Kings not onely in their states or liues as now the fashion is but so much as in their leisures onely this it may please Your MAIESTIE giue me leaue to adde That the Pope whome I speake of as Onu●…us testifies OMNEM ECCLESIASTICAM IVRISDICTIONEM viris profanis nullis sacris initiatis demandare cogitaverat had a purpose to translate all Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction to meere Lay-men he calls them profane but the more vehemently he expresses it the more it makes for vs and against themselues the Papists all so storming at the thing this day and the Adioynder by name with whome therefore I haue a dealing about this point somewhat at large in Your MAIESTIES high Prerogatiue and iustest Title allowing You by no meanes Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction if happily You should euer fulfil their suspicion of owning it Though KINGS were so farre from beeing counted profane by the auncient Synods of CHRISTS Church that their letters were holy to them their syllables holy their palace holy their very bed-chamber holy and all that was about them or belonged to them sacred and holy in the style of those godly times and Fathers Where I cannot but obserue the prouidence

yet he talkes of a King if you be remembred one time as chasing away all wickednesse with his eye suppose heresies and all another time enacting and decreeing righteousnesse sculpens iustitiam c. 8. which cannot be without the cheife part of it that is relligion as we read in Theodoret. l. 4. c. 5. that Valentinian taught all 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 beginning with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 all equitie as Salomon here saies beginning with piety another time as one against whom there is no rising vp and with many such like elogiums he aduances him as supreame in each kinde Neither Salomon onely but Aristotle himselfe as if it were the lawe of nature in the third of his politicks Assuerus Cyrus the King of Nineue were they not all supreame ordainers in relligion who neuerthelesse were strangers to the law of Moses This Eudoemon might haue told you who twits the Bishop for ioining those aforesaid with the kings of Israel Belike then they are distinct Therefore not onely Israel or they that were guided by the law of Moses but meere Naturalists haue acknowledged thus much that supremacie is the kings by originall right and not of ceremony So as our Sauiour said once about circumcision Non ex Mose sed ex Patribus in like sort here It is neither ceremonie nor iudiciall neither from 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 nor 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Rom. 9. this authoritie of Kings in all causes and ouer all persons which you so carpe And if it be lawfull as you tell vs to argue from the old Testament to the newe by way of signe to the thing signified we haue enough in that kind to maintain our assertion though wee had no other argument For who found a type in Nabuchodonosor euen now first fierce against Daniel and Daniels God afterward making lawes as zealously in his behalfe The ouen that was heated to consume the three children consumed their aduersaries And so Daniels Lyons prepared against him deuoured his accusers These are types if you beleeue S. Austen of heathen Emperours turning Christian and countenancing religion with all their might as before they vsed the aduantage of their place onely to suppresse it and destroy it I might tell you of other types that haue gone before in the old testament touching the supremacie of Kings appertaining to the newe As Abrahams harnessing 318. houshold seruants against Kedar-Laomer for the redeeming of Lot which is a type of Constantine say the Fathers of a certain Councell managing and mustering iust so many Bishops in the Nicene Synode to the confusion of Arius The lyon that slew the transgressing Prophet is a figure of Leo the Christian Emperour suppressing heresies c. as Varadatus whome they call excellentissimus Monachus in his Epistle to Leo aforesaid construes it In a word though you be impudent and your fore-head full of blasphemies yet mee thinks you should bee ashamed to bewray your selues so much as to affirme that Kings lost any part of their stroke by our Sauiours appearing in the new Testament as needs they must if the authoritie was but ceremoniall or iudiciall either which they exercised before And therefore I spare from further confutation § 39. As for that the Emperours in the new Testament were heathen and so neither by Christ nor his Apostles obeyed I hope Sir it is enough they were not resisted And if they made no good lawes yet they might haue made them and the Church in such case had beene bound to obey them Neither do the Bishops I trow alwaies preach the truth in which case S. Austen and S. Cyprian giue vs leaue to abandon them So is it when Kings transported by error forsake their dutie yet forfeit not their supremacy Though our Sauiour and his Apostles did no more turne away frō the edicts of Princes cōcerning relligion then from the Scribe and the Pharisee and the chaire of Moses it selfe which you perhaps would haue heard and obeyed in all things Will you say therefore that the chaire was not supreame in those matters To omit that if Princes had been neuer so impious for the time present yet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Gal. 3. the Scripture that foresees might haue confirmed the type that went of their authoritie in spirituall matters euen in the old Testament against such time as God should raise vp better in the new Yet you say that in the new Testament there is not the least syllable to that purpose Not Rom. 13. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Gods Minister v. 4. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 v. 6. which is rather more then the other but still Gods or to God belonging And not in Gods matters trow you In terrorem malis that is to hereticks and all In laudem bonis yet no goodnesse without true relligion in S. Pauls estimation who saies soone after that whatsoeuer is without faith is sinne the last verse of the next chapter So Coge intrare Luk. 14. to the spirituall banquet that is Kings in speciall haue this compelling power saies S. Austen often So Gal. 5. where heresies are reckoned among the works of the flesh which flesh at least the kings authoritie stretches to according to the similitude that you are wont to quote out of Gregorie Nazianzene of the flesh and the spirit though Athanasius Orat. de incarnat verbi makes the King to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the vnderstanding part that sets all on worke Lastly 1. Tim. 2. 1. where shewing that God would haue all men saued the Apostle from thence argues to prayers for Kings knowing Kings if they be Christian are the notablest instruments to worke the worlds saluation Can this be if Kings be not supreame in relligion and the causes thereof as wel in the new as in the old Testament For least you say they are to doe these things indeed but at the Clergies becke and subordinate to them they are called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 supreame Magistrates in the places that assigne them what to doe Rom. 13. 1. 1. Pet. 2. 13. c. But now if a man should aske you where your Pontificall supremacie is established in the new besides that you may fetch it by authoritie frō Moses which we may not and so from Aaron his sonnes nay à maiori saies Bell. de Pontif. Rom. l. 4. c. 16. though Moses figured not the Pope but Christ Heb. 3. 2. and so likewise Aaron Heb. 5. 4. yet perhaps you would quote Luk. 22. Vos autem non sic for that is more pregnant then Duo gladij in the same chapter or Qui maior vestrum est fiat sicut minimus or Regnum meum non est de hoc mundo or for loue to Peter Non dominantes Cleris 1. Pet. 5. 3. Doe not these shew the meaning of Pasce oues meas § 40 You say againe the Bishop equiuocates in this that though Dauid and Peter were both called to

Flavianus good demeanure and other such considerations then the Popes sentence or bare definition For then what neede long time to worke it Neither was that a signe of Damasus his supremacie that Flavianus sent his embassage to Rome For when two are to meete why should not the inferiour come to the superiour rather then otherwise I meane inferiour in order as Flavianus here to Damasus Antioch to Rome but not in authoritie Though the embassage was not intended so much to Damasus as to cleere the scandall that went of Flavian and to satisfie the whole Church of God in those parts that East and West might no longer continue in iealousie and alienation § 26. And now to come to his successor Syricius as your owne words are how doe you prooue his vniuersall iurisdiction I know it wrings you to be held to this point but there is no remedy to that you must speake Forsooth the Councell of Capua committed the hearing of Flauianus his cause to the Bishop of Alexandria and the Bishop of Egypt with this limitation as S. Ambrose witnesses I report your owne words that the approbation and confirmation of their sentence should be reserued to the Roman sea and the Bishop thereof who was then Syricius Suppose this were so how farre is it from arguing vniuersall iurisdiction For as the Councell might make choice of the Bishop of Alexandria and the Bishops of Egypt to take the first knowledge of Flavianus his cause into their hands so out of the same authoritie might it reserue the after iudgement and the vp shot of all to the Bishop of Rome it might doe this I say out of it owne libertie and for the personall worth of Syricius Pope not for any prerogatiue of his Sea And rather it shewes the preheminence of the Councell that might depute the Pope to such a busines as likewise the Bishop of Alexandria and Egypt The Eusebians made an offer witnes Athanasius in his Apologie to Iulius Pope of Rome to be their iudge if he thought good Iulio si vellet arbitrium causae detulerunt But if Iulius had no other hold it was a poore supremacie that might content him Yet Ambrose in the Epistle 78. which you quote saies not so much Rather of Theophilus somewhat magnificently Vt duobus istis tuae sanctitatis examen impartiretur confidentibus Aegyptijs that your Holines might haue the scanning of these mens cause while the Bishops of Egypt were your assessors And againe Sancta Synodus cognitionis ius unanimitati tuae caeterisque ex Aegypto consacerdotibus nostris commisit The holy Synod of Capua committed the power of iudging this matter to your agreement and the Egyptian Bishops What then of the Pope Sanè referendum arbitramur ad sanctum fratrem nostrum Romanae sacerdotem Ecclesiae Sure we are of the minde that it were good it were referred to our holy brother the Priest of Rome First brother then Priest of Rome lastly arbitramur The Synod belike not ordering so but Ambrose giuing his opinion thus And Quoniam praesumimus te ea iudicaturum quae etiam illi displicere nequeant because we presume you will resolue in such manner as shall not be displeasing to him See you how one of them is as free from error as the other in S. Ambrose minde And he is content that Syricius should haue the cognusance of the cause after Theophilus not that Theophilus errour might be corrected by Syricius but that ones concurrence might strengthen the other § 27. Doe you looke I should answer to Syricius Decretall sent to Himerius or does the conueying of it to France and Portugall prooue vniuersall iurisdiction exercised by the Popes in S. Austens time But with such baggage you make vp your measure Himerius askt and Syricius answers What then And Himerius was within the Romane Patriarchship caput corporis tai not caput corporis vniuersalis saies Syricius himselfe in the ende of his Rescript But proceede Optatus say you calls Peter principem nostrum our Prince Now he could not meane Peter to be that Prince for he was dead and gone and so nothing worth Therefore Siricius who then liued and was his successor in the Popedome Brauely shott and like a Sadducee Yet in the same booke Optatus calls Siricius in plaine tearmes not princeps noster but socius noster our frend and fellow as S. Ambrose a little before his brother and priest § 28. That in the African Councell Can. 35. the Fathers decreed that letters should be sent to their brethren and fellow-Bishops abroad but especially to Anastasius to informe them how necessary their latter decree was in fauour of the Donatists contradicting a former Canon made against them what is that to Anastasius his vniuersall iurisdiction Doe you see how you are choaked if you be but held to the point yet they sent to others no lesse then to Anastasius But to him especially you say It might be so for the eminencie of his Sea as we haue often told you And the Donatists beeing too strong for them as appeares by that decree which controules the former they were glad to take any aduantage I warrant you to countenance their proceedings Durum telum necessitas est § 29. That the Bishops of Africa requested Innocentius to vse his authoritie to the confirmation of their statutes against the Pelagian heretiques it was not because the ordinances of prouinciall Synods are not good in their precincts without the Pope as I thinke your selues will not denie but that the Pelagian heresie beeing farre spread throughout the world might be curbed within the places that Innocentius had to doe in as well as in Africk where the Councel was held Which taking so good effect as it seems it did S. Austen cries out that they were toto Christiano orbe damnati condemned ouer all the Christian world not that Innocentius authoritie was irrefragable but the concurrence of so many Pastors in the cause of Gods truth was of force at that time to rectifie the consciences of such as wauered before In this sense Possidius might well call it iudicium catholicae dei Ecclesie the iudgement of the Catholique Church of God when Innocentius Zo●●mus accursed the Pelagians because it sprang from the consent of so many godly Fathers as incited those Popes to that act of iustice and lead them the way in this daunce of zeale as I may so call it Not that the Church stood in them two or as if they had the vniuersall iurisdiction that he talkes of or rather dares not talke of but captiously and crookedly inuolues onely in impertinent allegations § 30. I might spend time about S. Austens authoritie Epist 92. writing thus to Innocentius That the Lord hath placed thee in sede Apostolicâ And doth this prooue vniuersall iurisdiction or is there no Apostolique sea but the Romane By which reason wee shall haue many vniuersall iurisdictions Or that it were negligence to cōceale ought from his

his life time vnles hee worshippe it Remember the story of Artemisia and Mausolus That was more then touching when shee eate and dranke the ashes of her dead husband for very loue Some kissed saies Plutarch the wound of the dead bodie some touched his hands some made obeysance a farre off What is this to the matter And one of the Dictionarists aforenamed quotes the place of the Gospel of many that touched the hemme of our Sauiours garment Yet of worshipping it not a word I should thinke that were a fine place to ground worshipping of relliques vpon if touching be worshipping our Sauiour beeing as sacred and soueraigne in his life time as any Saint is after his death But the story of his interring by Ioseph and Nicodemus where there is no mention to this purpose consutes relliques more then this can possibly helpe them And yet least you thinke it holds onely in Christ who was to rise againe the third day heare how your Maldonate construes that of S. Iohn Volo eum manere donec veniam This may bee saith hee though S. Iohn dyed well enough For manere is to tarry non concisum neque dilaceratum sed sanum atque integrum quamvis mortuum Which could not bee if he were to be cut out into mammocks such as your Relliques are Not Christ therefore nor Iohn were to be carued into Relliques And were any worthier to be preserued trowe you then they § 20. As for tangere genua a circumstance which they were wont to vse that prayed it shewes not that tangere signifies to pray nor yet to worship vnles genua bee put to it or some such rite expressed which in Relliques holds not S. Chrysostome does not say Let vs touch their knees but them howsoeuer Which some body perhappes would construe without any great anagogy of not abhorring either the death of Gods Saints which is pretious in his eyes as Dauid witnesseth in his whatsoeuer it be in the worlds or the memorialls of the deceased lately temples of the holy Ghost But vpon that I stand not So 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in Homer so Thet is elsewhere so Hecuba in Euripides What is this to touching in an absolute sense to signifie worshipping Is it not one thing what touching simply signifies another what touching with such particular circumstance as the beard the knee the hand c. Our Sauiour himselfe touched the leper and cured him Mat. 8. 3. And Mar. 10. 13. for the like cause they brought young children to him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that he should touch them i. blesse them not worship them You say Iob professeth that hee kissed not his hand at the Sunne rising which with you imports that he worshipped not the Sunne If you would persist in your first principle that touching is worshipping Iob should rather haue said that he touched not the Sun with his hand when it rises which who doth And S. Chrysostom does not bid vs touch our hands or kisse our hands at the sight of the Relliques but touch them Let Chrysostome expound himselfe in another place In his Comment vpon 2. Cor. the last chapter Hom. 30. he mentions not onely touching but kissing one another and that expressely in osculo sancto with the holy kisse or the relligious kisse yea he saies they kissed the Church so and the Church-porch so Which I suppose your selues would not admit that we should worship one another or worship the Church and much lesse the Church-porch with relligious adoration Therefore touching is no adoring no nor kissing neither which is a touching in specie as your Martiall no doubt hath told you long ere this time And now to Mr. Marshall therefore § 21. Roma salutauit voce manuque Ducem What is this to worshipping and not rather to saluting but that with you to salute the Virgine is to pray to her We worship the God whom we confesse we cannot touch But Otho protendens manum adorauit vulgum in Tacitus By that reason S. Paul adored the assembly when he stretched out his hand speaking to them Act. 26. 2. Which Athanasius sayes of himselfe that he does too as much as he may in absence to the Emperour Constantius See Apolog. ad Constant in the beginning Did he worship him in so doing trowe you or rather make audience Neither did Otho touch the people whome he worshipt and yet you bring this to prooue that touching is worshipping Venerantes Deum tangimus frontem saies Seruius but nostram not deorum What is this to tangamus relliquias for adoremus So the rest that you produce out of Paynim-idolatry as your selfe confesse to your great glorie And lastly out of Ouid his good stuffe Tange manu mensam as we doe the booke when wee take an oath What of that Or would you euer reason so if you had either conscience or reason in you We touch the booke when we sweare vpon it Ergò the touching of relliques is the worshipping of them Well Basil saies that relliques helpe by contact and so Nazianzen And 4. Reg. 13. the touch of Elizeus bones reuiued the dead Belike the dead bodie worshipt Elizeus whome it touched for that you must say or els you say nothing We will soone grant that God may dispence blessings by dead bones but not to the worshippers no not of the liuing Prophets but of God onely Him worship Apoc. 19. and 22. Yea S. Ambrose would not say Tactu ipso medicabiles esse relliquias if Tactus ipse were adoration For why should he extenuate adoration so I touch a wholesome hearbe and it abates anguish I worshippe it not Nay the woman that found health by touching our Sauiours hemme of his garment though he was the proper obiect of worship which Saints are not yet her touching was no symbolum of her adoration of him albeit by Gods blessing a meanes of health to her Therefore we denie your conclusion numb 42. that touching includes veneration of the thing touched Yea sometime the healer touched the party grieued whom he worshipped not you may be sure as 2. Kin. 5. 11. Naaman lookt for it But in the 4. of the same booke v. 34. Elizeus practiseth it farre more strangely vpon the Sunamites dead child whō he raiseth to life Of our Sauiour before who toucht the leper another time the beere that carried the dead Luk. 7. 14. but worshipt neither § 22. Numb 46. you say a fewe sermons of Ephrem cannot deserue the name of a Tome Yet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and resoluit tomum or scidit tomum often in the Councels not for a huge volume but what scrowle soeuer Why may not the Bishop speake after that manner Though you cannot deny that Ephrems edition is distinguished by Tomes as they are properly so called vnlesse you bee verie stranger to the matter And giue vs leaue to suspect your Crypticke authors of your owne editions and but late editions

viuorum neque adiuvandis neque cognoscendis saies S. Austen de Curâ pro mortuis c. 13. Doe they not rest from their labours Apoc. 14. 13 And actiue at least if not passiue to preserue your purgatorie as Denys answers it Neither say it seemes not labour to them though it be laborious for no more it here seemes to godly men Lastly it is wonder you should stand so stiffely vpon that point that the godly Fathers and by name S. Hierome for you name him among the rest should not sometime flourish with a figure of Rhetorique since not onely diuers of them haunted that schoole as Austen as Basil as Nazianzen and the like Chrysostome especially who would not ride to schoole beeing a rich mans child borne but prefer'd to goe on foote for his loue to learning but S. Hierome professes of himselfe so much in plaine tearmes where speaking of his Epist ad Heliodorum de laude vitae solitariae he calls it Iusus his play Epist proximè sequent quae est ad Nepotianum de vitâ Ctericorum § 9. To your 16. 17. c. Numb The Bishop said not that Ambrose was blasphemous as you blaspheme him but that the Cardinall citing that place of Ambrose which you might better haue abstained frō shewes he had rather bring Christs blood into contempt then let goe his Dalila Is this against S. Ambrose or the Cardinall rather Whome Ambrose his speech not so warie as to be wisht perhaps yet excusable by his beeing a nouice as then for certaine he was might trip as it does and hath done but euen too often What virulencie good Sir is this against S. Ambrose Though if neede were as there is none and yet if there were I were not worthie beeing more nouice to the most worthie Bishop then euer S. Ambrose was to himselfe yet I say if occasion so required to shew what my conceit was once hereof at a blush and a little to choake you the more about the place that you so ruffle in how if graunting it in rigore that obsecrandi sunt Angeli c. yet we should denie that Ambrose allowes prayers to Saints or to Angels either Are not Ministers called Angels Apoc. 1. Euen as Angels are called Ministers Heb. 1. Who if euer they be to be sought vnto by supplication I suppose in such case as Ambrose there speakes of that is in the houre of temptation and amidst the violent assaults of youthfull lusts and fancies To say nothing of repayring to them in distresse of conscience in which sense S. Chrysostome saies he will rise at midnight for the releefe of any poore soule and Minutius Foelix in Octauio reports the ieere of wicked Pagans in those tearmes Adorata sacerdotum virilia c. Not that it was so but for seeking to them for aide in the aforesaid fitts and pangs of mind most submissely But what then shall we say of Martyrs which is another thing in S. Ambrose As if the auncient Christians were not wont to craue pacem à Martyribus designatis afore they went to execution See Tertullian in his booke of that argument see others I doe but oppose you I leaue it so Cyrill vpon the 1. of Michea 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The Angels leaue vs they play the fugitiues And the same he gathers out of Esa 1. 8. that the daughter of Sion shall be like a cottage in a vineyard like a lodge in a garden of cucumbers namely because waited vpon no longer by the Angells And how are they fit to be praied vnto that leaue vs Neither say that after sinne for after sinne we haue most neede to pray of all The Apostle is confident that Angels shall not separate vs Rom. 8. 38. but no talke of vniting vs or approaching vs to Christ Sure S. Ambrose his ground was from intercessio viuorum namely Andrewes and Peters for Peters mother in law Luk. 4. which we allow And Ministers are praesidia nobis as S. Ambrose speakes not onely Angels while that which is said of martyrs may be vnderstood per Proterosin of them that are not yet martyred but onely appointed to the blocke whome we haue more then pignore corporis with vs and yet that too True praesules true speculatores as S. Ambrose calls them § 10. Yet loe you will prooue though cleane besides our scope besides your owne but that as they say a beggar is neuer out of his way that we may satisfie for our sinnes And you lay your ground numb 18. that Christs passion giues life to all That 's the blindation But as well wood and clay or other base ingredients in Nabuchodonosors image with sounder mettals eagles feathers and other birds may be mixed and compounded yea the iarring ashes of the two Thebane brethren reconciled as our wretched works and sorry sufferings with our Sauiours righteousnesse which is righteousnesse it selfe Doe you not conceaue how one is incompatible with the other almost crying out with S. Peter Depart Lord for I am a sinnefull man so depart Lord for I am a sinnefull worke while you boldly blend and play the Vinteners mingling guilty blood with the blood of his sacrifice innocent and immaculate most preposterous Pilates § 11. Nazianzen is quoted Orat. 1. in Iulian. vt satisfacerent Christo sanguine suo In Nazianz. it is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which may as well be the iustifying of Christs cause by the effusion of their blood hauing newly dishonoured it by stooping to the Emperours poisonous baits as to satisfie for their fault to the iudge of the world which no man can doe though in shadow and proportion one may come nearer perhaps then another As he that spares not his life in his Lords cause after he hath offended him before him that languishes still and playes the lazy Christian So Nazianzen might meane I see no cause to the contrary Does not S. Peter take the word so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. The same is to be said to your other authorities if time would serue which you fondly here multiply cleane besides the marke but that you long'd I dare say to vent your commodities and were glad no doubt of this occasion In so much as you haue not spared Dan. 4. Peccatum tuum eleemosynis redime Which in Hebrew is abrumpe as hath been often answered you and so in other places Yea we are saued by hope and he hath saued vs by the lauer of regeneration comes in to shew that a man may wash away his owne sinnes either with teares or with blood Is this good handling of Scriptures trow you If we are saued by hope is it by hope in our selues or our owne arme If baptisme purges vs and the Sacrament of our Lord shall there be the same vertue in our corrupt selues who but for grace should rather staine the font staine our baptisme true Coprony●… § 12. To S. Ambroses place in 1. ad Rom.

feather and vsurped flower of title at this day Nay verily by the same reason Ministers might not exhort either Kings and Princes or other ciuill Magistrates to doe their duties to gouerne well to administer iustice to heare causes vnpartially to cut off malefactors to root out traitors to suppresse sinne by dint of sword because all these things are vnlawfull to them repugnant to their vocation and yet the Ministers voice is a kind of commandement speaking from the pulpit in Gods stead as was noted before 6. What should I say of calling of Bishops to Synods of setting them on worke to explaine the faith and to confute heresies May Christian Princes either not doe the first which the stories are so full of in the best times or shall they practise and beare a part in the second which the Papists neuer will admit How did Theodosius dismisse Flauianus after so many Popes had in vaine assaulted him commaunding him to depart and doe his dutie vpon his Bishopricke if no body may enioyne but that which he may execute 7. Lastly if a Priest should denie to baptize a young infant that were sicke whose saluation therefore were emperilled and as we graunt in the ordinarie but as the Papists thinke in the extraordinary way and all without any hope of future recouerie if a Priest were so frampoll I say as to refuse to baptize a poore infant in that case shall not the King compell him by force and punishment and terrour of his Lawes We read in the booke of Martyrs of a certaine Knight in Poperie that put a Priest into the graue aliue because he refused to burie a corps that was brought to Church where there was no mortuarie to be had such was their couetousnesse Yet alas what comparison between burying of the dead which our Sauiour makes so sleight of Suffer the dead to bury their dead and the administring of Christs Sacrament for the sauing of a poore soule from euerlasting destruction It is therefore not the vnworthinesse of the ministeriall duties as Mr. Sanders by his Syllogismes would faine driue vs to say or else to let goe our distinction betweene Iniunction and Execution not the basenesse of our office for we magnifie our Ministerie and the Angels are thought to tremble at the weight of it Quis ad haec idoneus said he viz. neither heauenly nor earthly abilities put in one but the meere distance and disunion of the two callings I am loath to say repugnance though that also after a sort which will not permit a Prince to do Priestly offices though his power extend to the commaunding of them to be done yea punishing and correcting if they be not done Cursed be hee that does the Lords worke negligently said the Prophet of old And the heathen Poet assumes Pectora nostra duas non admittentia curas we cannot do Gods worke and the worlds too Therefore God will haue his worke done by such onely as shall intend nor doe no other worke then that For this cause gouernement remaines with the King without any entermedling in the execution of our offices the execution is ours without any right in Gouerning or Compelling And so much to Mr. Sanders why the King should haue Iurisdictiō as the Parlament here speaks or Superinspection without administration or execution which it seemes the Adioynder is no lesse troubled with then Mr. Sanders though he prosecute it not so vehemently I returne to him who is now at his last casts § 91. COncerning then our extending the priuiledges of Supremacie beyond the custome and fashion of other nations he brings no proofe of it and therefore I might contemne it with the same facilitie that he obiects it But first he is to know that the grounds which they hold by either from Scriptures or from Fathers in the auouching of their Supremacy are the same that ours and import as much and extend as farre including the same priuiledges if they be throughly scanned though happily so much appeare not vnto them all at first Or it is the wisedome of Kings to temper their gouernement with such moderation as the condition of their people will best beare for the present more as there shall bee more opportunitie afterward sic fortis Hetruria creuit To omit that for so much as others exercise these acts in those Kingdomes though they deriue not their authoritie so literally from the King yet the Kings permission is their deputation and so the Supremacie still remaines in himselfe Euen the Popes Supremacie is not the like with all nor of the like extension We knowe what narrowe bounds the French haue set to it with their Pragmaticall Sanction And the Sorbone of Paris hath euermore curtailed it Few that amplifie it as fully as the Canonists Bellarmine himself goes not so farre as Carerius The Bishops of some places were freer then others in some the Deacons stept afore the Priests And diuerse things belonging to the qualitie of each order are determined by Councels in processe of time rather then acknowledged by all at first Doth this therefore preiudice either Bishops or Priests No verily And so all that dissent about the bounds of Supremacy are not straight to be reckoned for enemies to the Supremacie God forbid For I will not say as I might and yet without flatterie that wee of the ENGLISH may the better enlarge the KINGS MAIESTIES priuiledges as farre as possibly may stand with Gods word because we are more sensible of his HIGHNES liberalities then any others and his extraordinary fauour hath abounded towards vs. We may say as the Iewes did to the Apostle S. Iames witnesse Eusebius lib. 2. hist cap. 23. Obsecramus te Obtemperamus tibi Tibi omnes obedimus Etenim omnis populus testificatur de te quòd iustus sis nec personā accipis And which neuer any of Peter Quot quot credebant propter IACOBVM credebant Propagatorem fidei Malleum haeresum As for that which followes Sta ergò super pinnam templi vt conspiciaris ab vniuersis verba tua omnes exaudiant I need not adde it since God hath done it I meane exalted his MAIESTIE to the top of Soueraigntie euen of Temple and all from whence the Nations farthest off attend his answers and the world round about craues his resolution in greatest matters § 92. AND so beseeching ALMIGHTIE GOD to giue vs as large a heart to vnderstand our owne good and his MAIESTIES rare fauours and charities towards vs as he hath enlarged the heart of his most EXCELLENT MAIESTIE to all Princely wisedome and possible vertue but especially to ouer-cherish his deare spouse the CHVRCH Let vs thanke him also for the occasion of these two labours of the right worthy Bishop though in it selfe it was not so expetible and make much of the two pignora that the Church hath from him two radiant lights two lasting pillars 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as

foolish tricke that the Papists haue got to raise English merit out of the Latin mereo and mereos which sounds to a far other sense with the holy Fathers God knowes Epist Basil gr Froben p 304. Est alijs cp 5● Act. 24 5. Hom. in Natal Apost Petri Pauli The Word and Keyes two de positums of like nature * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And that the reasō why Christ so ●…bd Peter in his curiosities concerning Iohn Hic autē quid was because 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 beeing ioynt-gouernours of the world they were to be dispersed henceforth old amities to cease For Iohn Peter had loued together more thē ordinary But most pregnātlv the same Chry. Hom 2. in c. 1. ad Tit. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c The Apostles diuiding the whole world between themselues euen as if it had beene but one house so discharged euery thing and tooke care for euery thing one taking this part another that part to looke vnto b Tom. 4. edit D. Sav. p. 501. * Euen so is that to be taken which Bellar. notes out of Chrysoft in Acta see pag. 15. 〈◊〉 that the Christians are not to be ashamed if they be miscalled after the name of some eminent Pastor or Prelate of the Church For he meanes not the Pope there rather then himselfe For first why should Constantinople or Antioch either gratifie Rome so much considering the emulations 2. Though we should grant Chrysoft to speake by prophesie 3. But besides it appeares that Chrysostomes followers were called Iohann●… of his name Zonar alij 4. And yet we call not the Papists from the name of this or that Pope among them as Chrysoft meaning is but from a generall one to all that occupie the Sca. 5. Which til the Pope ingrossed it was yet more generall Exercit. ad Baron pag. 726. De consid ad Eugen. l 4. c 2. Voss edit Esa 51. 15. Chrysost in Ioh 21. a question 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is Peter askes for 〈◊〉 now as afore Iohn askt at Peters●etting ●etting on So it is no great preroga●i●● but onely one for another Papyr Mass Ibid ex Amm. Marcel Prou. 17. 17. Plato Menexeno Hom. 83. in Matth. iterumque comm in Acta Cicer. pro Muraenâ Neminem vestrum fugit cū multi pares dignitate fiant vnus autem primū solut possit obtinere non eundem ● Proptereit quod renunciatio gradus habeat dignitas autem sit per●●pè ead●… omnium Vid 〈◊〉 Ge●…d G●sner Heg●… c. * In the same booke of the Code Lege Cunctos Th odosius Gratianus and Valentinian Edicto ad Constantinopol C●… wish all men to followe the same faith quam sequi hodie claret Damasum Pontificem Romanum Petrum Alexandria Episcopum that is which Damasus Bishop of Rome and Peter of Alexandria embracet the which Peter he calls more ouer Virum Apostolica sanctitatis an an of Apostolike holinesse ascribing to Damasus neither Apostolicke nor any other title But I note it for this If the Popes authoritie be not sufficient for our direction in matters of faith except the Bishop of Alexandria his name be ioyned with him for illustration sake what infallibilitie hath the one aboue the other * Carm. de ingratis Anne alium in finèm posset procedere sanctū Concilium cui dux Aurelius ingentumque Augustinus erat quem Christi gratia corn● Vberiore rigans nostro lumen uedit aeuo Accensum vero de lumine S. Austen was light of verie light in S. Prospers eye a Serm. 4. in Hoseam b Euagr. l. 4. c. 38. alij complures Ecclesia praesidens in regione Romanorum Ignat. Epist which the Papists catch at this per Europa●● * Et l. 1. cp 3. quae est ad 〈◊〉 sub nomine Paulae E●… Quantò Iudea caeteris Prouincijs tantò hae V●●S cunctà s●bl●…or est Iudea Et cum totius prouinciae gloria metropoli vindi catur quicq ud in membus ●●udis est omne refertur ad caput Making by that meanes H●…salem the prime seat and as it were metropolis of the world Passus est sub Pontio Pilato This it a maine cause of Pilates coming into the Creede And the Papists doctrine opposing Magistracie opposes so the Creed gathers fast vpon heresie a Decret part 2. caus 23. qu. 1. * 1. The countermine of Powers temporall op pugning the truth is to the godly couragious a glorious triall to the faint of courage a dangerous assault But the same powers whē they stand for the auouching of truth to the honest-hearted that are in errour they are profitable aduertisers but to the foolish and besotted bootlesse ●●ourges Yet still there is no power but of GOD. In vit● Sylver Such Popes no maruell if S. Cyprian say the Emperour was lesse offended with a rebels insurrection then their creation Aequior audiebat imperij amulum in se coniurare quàm Dei fieri Sacerdotem Geburoth and Sopheroth no friēds in Poperie 2. 2. quaest 188. art 3. Ve●● Athenas neque me quisquam ibi agnouit Tusc Quaest 5. Epist 33 ad Anatolium 3 In 1 ad Tim. c 1. orat 6. initio ipso In this sense Sidonius l. 6. Fp. 6. ad Eut●●p●… Bonitas conditoris habitationem po●… hominum quàm charitatem finalibus claudit angustij● And againe S. Chrysost hom 3. in Acta Apost Ethico calls euery Bishop in generall 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Bishop ouer all men and yet in the same place sayes That no Bishop in Bishop ouer more then one Citie Both of which make for vs against you and seeming contrary include no contradiction Yea Hom. 8. in Acta hee saies twice together that his Lay-auditors shal be Occumenicall Masters if they do this this of his prescribing Also 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 They shal be to all that which he is to them Chrysost in quadam epist Principis fauore Liberat. c. 21. Barlaam Can. 6. Athanasiapol conera Arian Pro lege Manil. Regum afflictae opes facise alliciunt misericordiam Num 70. huius num 28. Euseb l. 5. c. 25. Ibid. c 26. Ibid. De liturgicis Fragment Hilarij Apolog. Cyrilli Mandat Synod Ephes 〈◊〉 Cor. 〈◊〉 36. Defens Trid. l. 2. Haere ses propagāt Epist 8. ad Euseb Sam. Edit D. H. Sauil. Epist episcop secundae Syriae ad Leon. Habetur int●… Act Concil Chalced. * The prerogatiues before other Churches Nouel Constit 131. Com. in Photij Nomocanon tit p. c. 5. Com. in Can. a And I my selfe read ouer this Canon to the most 〈◊〉 Pope in the Citie of Rome in the presence of the Clergie of Constantinople and he receiued it * Either Eusebius 〈◊〉 or Leo wa●… deceiued ●lspan● A wood 〈◊〉 in stead of a doue Non est admirations vna arbor cum tota in eandem altitudinem sylua su● exit Seneca 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈…〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 findes a Head