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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A72252 Philadelphus, or a defence of Brutes, and the Brutans history Written by R. H. Harvey, Richard, 1560-1623? 1593 (1593) STC 12913; ESTC S125405 54,281 112

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latine Are you not aduised how many things are writtē in Greek and Latine of the Beginning of the world though there were neither Greeke nor Latine 2000. yeares and more after the Creation of heauen and earth and such a reason might partly be brought against your selfe in your first king Fergusius if I would follow so needlesse a cause in comparing his time with the times of the latine tongue wherein you write of him You might haue done well to proue that the Moonke saith howe Brute receiued his answere of Diana and asked her Counsell in latine speach which because you haue not proued your Horatius and your Saliare carmen and your Numa and your wordes are but winde Cannot an Historian report the Orations of the Indians of the Germans of the Numidians in latine vnlesse the Numidians Germans and Indians spake latine were the Orations in your Chronicles Master Buchanan spoken first in latine So your Penitus obliti and ne tenue quidem and other bootlesse words are vain and little or nought worth in this present question Tis not euer true that hath a quidem I cannot certainly say that the Brutans language was vsed in Italy in the dayes of Brute but I may well say notwithstanding your trifling mycterisme that if the Oracles and men had spoken it they had been neuer the worse nor the language neuer the better But you were in a running thought and supposed your selfe subtle enough when you had brought your inuention to a disiunctiue proposition with much effect I promise you when it tendeth hitherto euen to proue that the Brutan speach then was not the same our Brutans vse now in Cambry Yet by your leaue Buchanan it is no proofe against this language in that many tongues appeare in it in your time seeing Brutanisme might at first bee as full of diuerse tongues by reason of much trauell as it is nowe and then your argument hath nor vse nor force in your question and in trueth though Scots be called generally false yet Buchanan may be true so Moonks may dreame dreames and yet Geffry Monmouth write a trueth Why should not a Moonke be as credible as a Paedanty or a solitarie student vnderstand that he readeth as much as a busie schoolemaster or a Cambrian read Chronicles which a Scot neuer saw or Geffry be as plaine and verifiable as Buchanan being not so deep ouer head and eares in verses and Poetry as he yet now at last the George confesseth that his owne reasons are but minims and minute persecutions and slender thinges and is faine to say that the Moonke himselfe seemeth to acknowledge his fiction though it appeareth not so by the Moonkes wordes Thus it cannot be proued euidently that the history of Brute is a fained and poeticall narration vnlesse it be first proued that there were no more Intelligences and Registers in the life of Geffrey then of George and that Geffrey had no Authours for his defence because George cannot knowe them If nothing be true in one country which hath not suffragees from another Countrey I cannot tell what historie may stand irrefragably by this determination no not when we read the auncientest partes and primitiue recordes of best historiographers Was there not an Apostle Paul vnder Nero because Suetonius and Tacitus name none such much Iustine teach the Iewes howe to thinke of the deliuery of Israel But I omit those instances which might be giuē against you because in a question I regard the argument more then the illustration thereof and so should you too by your leaue for all your 24. yeares trauell Are they malè callidi and is vanitie in them that call Diana an huntresse and say that in the time of Brute Diana was accounted a Goddesse I confesse I cānot see how they are lewdly and fraudulently vaine that write thus then it remaineth that you make these words good if you can The chast body the painfull bodie but labour and continencie in mans body breede a kinde of diuinitie in man I pray when you in your Psalmes as they call them yours deuise the most kindes of verses that you can do you confesse that Dauid made them at first in so many sortes of verses as you haue written them surely you will denie it Iwis it is not necessarie that Brute and Diana should speake verses because Geffry Monmouth recordeth their wordes in verses But let be suppose they did speake in these or in other verses then he doubtlesse or some other for him translated their words into hexameters and pentameters as you see What vanitie or falshood is on either side neuer thinke to carry it away with threed-bare wordes or to leade your Readers where you list A wise perswader are you is Diana called Loxias in your bookes or if Apollo be oblique and crooked and intricate in his answeres must Diana needes be so or if Dianaes Priest be commonly obscure foulded vp in speach cannot it be that hee should be perspicuous at anie one time are you to appoint him how to speake so manie yeares after his death I pray if Pythia be euer doubtfull and oblique because shee is so for the most part what doubtfulnesse or obliquitie is in this aunswere You are come to my rich temples Lycurgus beloued of God and of all that inhabite the heauenly houses I am in doubt whether I should call thee a mon or a God but I much rather beleeue that thou art a God Lycurgus as Herodotus hath recorded in his Clio and what ambiguitie is in that Answere which Pythia gaue vnto Craesus in the same booke of Herodotus what saye to Aristodocus in the same booke who neither asked in verse nor was answered in verse what saye to them of Marea and Apia which asked Hammons Oracle in prose and were answered in prose as it appeareth in Euterpe What saye to the Doue of Dodona or the Oracle of the cittie Butis giuen to Pheron that spake in prose in the same booke to let passe such answeres a good manie giuen without verse or ambiguitie Or if they were giuen in verse being nowe written otherwise with allowance of Readers what hath the Moonke done amisse in the maner of these verses he may aswell register prose in verse as they register verse in prose As for your Opinor this may bee well answered in your verball manner O pinor narras non rectè accipis you know the maker Terentius I that am young may aswell bestowe my labour to answere you as you being olde may obiect so vnfruitfully Howe is that proued a manifest fiction that this Iland at Brutes comming was a wildernesse being yet so this daie still in manie places Can two Gyantes and their two families or so manie Giantes as make an Armie so fill this countrie that it shall not rightly be called a desart when they are all in one shire the other shires are verie desarts when they being so few are scattered into so manie shires betweene the