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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A07963	The vvoefull crie of Rome Containing a defiance to popery. With Thomas Bells second challenge to all fauorites of that Romish faction. Succinctly comprehending much variety of matter ...	Bell, Thomas, fl. 1593-1610.	1605 (1605)	STC 1833; ESTC S101554	53,995	85

Syluester saith Credendum est ita esse we must belieue that it is so Petrus Lombardus sometime the Byshop of Paris surnamed magister sententiarum because with great diligence he collected into one volume all worthy sentences of the auncient Fathers maketh no mention at all of popish pardons as which he could not find in any of the holy Fathers notwithstanding his painefull industrie imployed in that kind of exercise And yet this maister Lombard the reuerend popish Byshop whose foure bookes of sentences are publikely read in the popish schooles of Diuinitie liued in the year of our sauiour 1163. A.D. 163 so as popish pardōs were not known to the world for the space of one thousand one hundred threescore and three yeares For as Antoninus and Syluester truly write the old Fathers were not acquainted with any such thing The like may be said of S. Cyprian S. Austen S. Hierome S. Nazianzene and others of antiquity For which cause Durandus Caietanus and sundry other schoolemen affirme the popes maner of pardoning to be a new thing in the Church of God Neither can Dominicus Soto deny the same indeed albeit he busieth himselfe more then a little in the defence therof Yea the originall of popish pardoning is so very young as their popish martyr and reuerend Byshop Maister Fisher in his answere to Maister Luthers articles was enforced to admit the newnesse and yong age of the same and to yeeld this mightie and strong reason in defence thereof viz. that purgatorie was not so well knowne at that time to the Church as it is now adayes Which saying I weene is true indeed because purgatorie and pardons were not heard of in old time and now onely made known by vaine grosse and sensuall imaginations But hereof I haue wr●●tten else where more at large to which place I referre the reader for his better satisfaction The 3. section of the valuation of popish pardons COncerning the vertue and efficacie of the popes pardons the matter is so intricate doubtfull and vncertaine that euen amongst the greatest best learned popish Doctors as themselues are therein at their wits end and cannot tell in the world what to say or thinke thereof Angelus de Clauasio a famous popish Canonist and religious Fryer reciteth six seuerall dissonant opinions touching this question of pardons And after he hath confuted them all he setteth downe the seuenth for his owne and the best which as he saith is sound and true It is therefore no doubt very svbstantiall seeing we must esteeme our Fryer to bee a man of credit especially for that Iesephus Angles reciting in like maner seuen seuerall opinions of his popish fellows concludeth in effect as Angelus did afore him opinion 1 The first opinion holdeth saith our religious Fryer that the popes pardons onely remit that punishment which God appointeth to be imposed in an other world for a supply vnto those who haue onely done penance according to the canons but doth in no case remit that penance which is imposed and taxed by the Canons opinion 2 The second opinion holdeth pardons onely forgiue that penance which is tax●d by the lawe and penitentiall canōs but not the paine which gods iustice appointed to be imposed opinion 3 The third opinion holdeth that pardons forgiue paine due for sin aswell before God as before his church but this opinion addeth a clausie so sharpe as our holy father doth not brooke it viz. that the Pope is bound to doe penance for that person whom he pardoneth opinion 4 The 4. opinion holdeth that the paine of hell is partly remitted by the Popes pardons for that it beōmeth thereby more tollerable opinion 5 The 5. opinion holdeth that penance onely is pardoned which the partie omitted of negligence not of purpose or contempt opinion 6 The 6. opinion holdeth that the popes pardons remit not onely penance imposed by the Priest but also that which is taxed of God marry this opinion hath one limitation which forsooth is this that the priest must be content therwith or else the pope cannot worke his will opinion 7 The 7. opinion holdeth that popish pardons forgiue and are worth so much as the words of the pardons doe expresse or sound viz that if the pardons containe an hundred thousand yeares then the partie obtaining such pardons at the popes handes must haue remission of so many yeares Thus gentle reader standeth the doctrine of popish pardons euen among the greatest Doctors of that faction The bare rehearsal of these opinions with the varietie and vncertaintie implyed therin is a most sufficient confutation of the same In this Chapter these speciall points are duly to be remembred First that the popes pardons can neither be proued by the Scriptures nor yet by the testimonie of the holy Fathers Secondly that in the dayes of Petrus Lombardus who liued 1163. after Christs glorious ascension into heauen the popes pardons were vnknowne vnto the world Thirdly that the best learned papists cannot tell what that is which the pope beareth the world in hand that he forgiueth by his pardons Alas alas how hath the Church of Rome seduced vs. CHAP. VI. Of the Popes dispensations I Haue written else where at large of the popes impious and abhominable dispensations where I haue proued perspicuously out of his owne deare Doctors that he hath dissolued holy matrimonie by his wicked dispensations hath licenced the brother to marry his owne sister It shall here be enough to adde some memorable specialitie for the edification of the thankfull reader Franciscus a Victoria that learned popish Fryer and professor of Diuinitie in Salmantica hath these expresse words Videmus quotidie a romana curia tam largas imo omnino tam dissolutas dispensationes profectas vt orbis ferre non possit non solum in scandalum pusillorum sed maiorum Englished thus We see daily so large yea altogether so dissolute dispensations come from the Church of Rome that the world is not able to endure it neither doth that tend onely to the scandall of the weake but euen of those also who are strong and perfect The same Doctor in another place hath these words paulatim ad hanc intemperantiam dispensationum deuentum est hunc talem statum vbi nec mala nostra nec remedia pati possumus ideo necesse est aliam rationem excogitare ad conseruandas leges da mihi Clementes Linos Syluestros omnia per● mittam arbitrio eorum sed vt nihil grauius dicatur in recentiores pontifices certe multis partibus sunt priscis illis inferiores Englished thus By little and little we are brought to these inordinate dispensations to this so miserable a state where we are neither able to endure our owne griefes nor yet remedies designed for the same and therefore must we perforce inuent some other way for conseruation of the lawes Giue me Clements Liues Syluesters and I will

neither of the substāce of the ministery nor grounded vpon the law of God but onely enforced by the law of man Secondly that priests marriage would be honourable and honest chastitie if the law of man did not prohibite the same Thirdly that the prohibition of priests marriage is against their soules health and causeth them to sinne damnably Fourthly that Byshops Priests and deacons were euer married in the Greeke Church and did not thereby sinne at all Out of which obseruations I inferre this golden and most memorable corollarie Viz That the prohibition of Priests marriage is against Gods law against the health and saluation of mens soules and against the good of the Common wealth Polidorus another deare friend of popish Religion shall tell the papists what he thinkes of the Pope touching the prohibition of priests marriage Thus doth he write Illud tamen dixerim tantum abfuisse vt ista coacta castitas illā coniugalem vicerit vt etiam nullius delicti crimen maius ordini dedecus plus mali religioni plus doloris omnibus bonis impresserit inusserit att ulerit quam sacerdotum libidinis labes proinde forsitā tam è republica christiana quam ex ordinis vsu esset vt tandem aliquando ius publici matrimonij sacerdotibus restitueretur Quod illi sine infamia sanctè potius colerent quam se spurcissime ●iuscemodi naturae vitio turpificarent Englished thus Yet this I will say that this inforced chastitie of priests was so farre from excelling chastitie in wedlocke as no crime whatsoeuer hath brought greater shame to priesthood more harme to Religion more griefe to all good men then the vnchaste life of Priests Therefore perhaps it were no lesse necessarie for the publique weale of Christendom then for the order of Priesthood that once againe Priests might marrie publikely that so they might liue honestly and without shame and not pollute themselues most filthily Thus writeth M. Polidore who being an Italian knew best the Romish fashion Out of whose wordes I note these matteriall points First that Priests were married in old time and consequently that the late Romish religion which simple people terme the old Religion is a false new wicked counterfeit religion against Gods lawes and the auncient custome of the Church Secondly that the prohibition of Priests marriage hath brought not onely great hurt and shame vnto the Church but also great sorrow to all godly people Thirdly that it is expedient both for the Church and for the common weale that the libertie to marrie may be again restored vnto priests which assertion if it did not proceede from the penne of a famous papist no papist would geue credite thereunto But for a most delicate postpast I will adde the flatte and resolute iudgement of a most famous and learned pope and the same shal be garded with the testimonie of the popes owne decrees Pope Pius the second of that name who beefore his popedome was named Aeneas Syluius a very learned man and famous wryter did deliuer his opinion in this manner Indoctum Episcopum asino comparandum corpora malos medicos animas imperitos sacerdotes occidere vagum monachum diaboli mancipium esse Virtutes Clerum ditasse vitia pauperem facere sacerdotibus magna ratione s●blatas nuptias maiori restituendas videri Englished thus Hee vsed to say that a Byshoppe without learning was like vnto an Asse and consequently that there are many Asses in the popish Churches That euill physitians did kill mens bodies and ignorant priestes their soules That a vagarant Moncke was the deuills slaue and bondeman That vertues had enriched the Cleargie in times past but that vices of late dayes doe make it poore That there was great reason to debarre priestes of marriage but greater reason to restore marriage againe vnto them Thus writeth this Pope a learned man indeede Whose testimonie seeing hee was a most famous pope must needes be of highest credite with all papists in the worlde Hee sheweth plainely nay hee affirmeth absolutely that there was in his time greater cause to restore marriage to the Cleargie then euer there was to debarre them from the same What that cause was in particular wee haue heard allready out of Polydore and Panormitane but Gratianus the compyler and collector of the popes Decrees into one volume shall giue the vp-shotte of this game These are the expresse words of pope Damasus Osius the pope was the sonne of Stephanus the Subdeacon Bonifacius the pope was the sonne of Iocundus the priest Dè titula faciolae Agapitus the pope was the sonne of Gordianus the priest Theodorus the pope was the sonne of Theodorus the Byshop Syluerius the pope was the sonne of Syluerius the Byshop of Rome Densdedit the pope was the sonne of Iocundus the priest Foelix the third a Romane borne was the sonne of Foelix the priest and Gelasus the pope was the sonne of Valerius the Byshop and after this graue testimonie these expresse words follow immediatly Quam plures etiam alij inveniuntur qui de sacerdotibus nati apostolicae sedi praefuerunt Englished thus There are also found many others who being the sonnes of Priests haue ruled the Apostolike seat or Church of Rome Well what saith the popish glosse to this Canon of pope Damasus Truely it granteth freely that all these aforenamed popes were bastards and it addeth a very soueraigne remedie in these golden words Tollitur n. vicium per successionem For the fault is taken away by sucession and albeit I grant with S. Hieromie that the fault of bastardie is wholy in the parents and not hurtfull to the soule of the child that liueth vertuously yet pope Vrbanus answereth after an other manner His wordes are these Cum ergo ex sacerdotibus nati in summos pontifices legantur esse promoti non sunt intelligendi de fornicatione sed de legitimis coniugijs nati quae sacerdotibus ante prohibitionem vbique licita erant in orientali ecclesia vsque hodie eis licere probantur Englished thus When therefore we read that the sonnes of priests are made popes we must not vnderstand bastards but sonnes borne in honest marriages which were euery where lawfull for priests before the late prohibition and are also this day holden for lawfull in the East Church But of this point see more at large els where To this I cā not but adde mine owne knowledge touching that which I both heard and saw while I was at Rome Viz. That pope Gregorie the 13. of that name had a proper man to his sonne whom hee made the Captaine of his Castle Pont-angelo and afterward purchased a Barronrie for him as report was made abroad My selfe demaunded of a Iesuite a Romane borne if the pope had beene married before his priesthood because hee had a sonne Hee answered smiling that hee could not so affirme but quoth he he was pope vndoubtedlie before he was known to haue a