Luc. 18 38 39. Esa. 6. 3. Psal. 136. Math. 26. 39. to 45. Marc. 14.39 Luc. 22. 42. Ergo Repetition of Paternosters Creedes and Aues according to the formes prescribed in the Romish Primers and Rosaries are pious and lawfull I answer Granting that repetitions in prayer and thanksgiuing which agree with the examples of sacred Scripture are pious and lawfull but the Illation from these to the Roman Battalogees is inconsequent because the repetitions in question differ from the patterne expressed in holy Scripture First in the kind and obiect for this latter are in part directed to creatures and not onely to the Creator and of this deuotion there is no example in Scripture Secondly they are multiplyed to an excessiue and portentuous number and doubtlesse the Romists exceede and transcend their brethren the Pharisees in the number and vaine repetition of such superstitious Orisons Thirdly the Creed and Aue-maries are no prayers or thanksuings either formally or vertually Fourthly our A duersaries maintaine That if these repetitions be vsed without vnderstanding of the words and consequently without present actuall attention they are pious and effectuall But the Romists cannot produce approoued examples out of holy Scripture of such repetitions and therefore their argument from example concludeth not It is also apparent that the repetitions which are practised among Papals in manner aforesaid doe rather resemble the superstitious Battalogie of the Pharisees Math. 6.7 than the deuout prayers and thanksgiuings recorded for our instruction in holy Scripture IESVIT Jf any thinke to merit by reason of the number of his prayers hee is ignorant of the doctrine of the Catholike Church which attributes no merit to prayers in regard of their number further than the number awakes in vs deuout thoughts which is the onely thing that by the number we aime at Wee say Paters Aues and Creedes to the number of three in memorie of the blessed Trinitie seeking Gods fauour and grace by glorifying that incomprehensible Mystery to the number of fiue in memorie of the fiue speciall wounds our Sauiour receiued that pierced into and through his sacred body to the number of 33 in remembrance of the 33 yeares our Sauiour wrought our saluation vpon earth giuing him thankes for his labours desiring the application of his merits stirring vp our selues to the imitation of his vertues The like reason mooueth vs to pray in the number of sixtie three Angelicall salutations to call to mind the yeeres the Mother of God liued on earth according to one probable opinion And because the opinion that she liued seuentie two yeeres now begins to be much followed many Catholickes therupon particularly in Spaine haue thereupon increased the Corone of our Ladie to seuentie two Aue-Marias a manifest signe that they neuer attributed merit vnto the number of sixtie three but onely to the deuout memories of the blessed Virgins vertues exercised in the yeeres shee conuersed in this world giuing to God thankes for his great graces bestowed on her The Psalter of our Ladie and the Iesus Psalter containe one hundred and fiftie repetitions of Prayers the one of Aue-Marias the other of Iesu Iesu Iesu in imitation of the deuout Royall Prophet whose Psalter containes Psalmes in Gods praise to the samè number ANSVVER The true Catholicke Church which the Roman is not maketh no Prayer meritorious in condignitie for what can be imagined more absurd than to maintaine that beggers doe merit by crauing and receiuing almes And the number of Pater Nosters Aues and Creeds which moderne Romists prescribe is a nouell Inuention and was of small esteeme vntill the dayes of Friar Dominicus It was expected that the Iesuit would haue confirmed his Romish deuotion by the Testimonie of antiquitie and by the practise of Apostolicall Churches in the best ages thereof But in place hereof hee reciteth onely what the practise of the moderne Romists is in repeating Pater Nosters Aues and 〈◊〉 to the number of three fiue and thirtie three sixtie three seuentie two c. But these deuices are voluntarie and grounded vpon vncertaine causes for what connexion is there betweene the Antecedent to wit the fiue wounds of Christ and sixtie three or seuentie two yeeres of the blessed Virgins Temporall life and the deuotion inferred and proportioned because Christ had fiue wounds and the Virgin Marie liued seuentie two yeeres in the world therefore it is a seruice pleasing God and such a meanes to honour the blessed Virgin as God accepteth for satisfaction merit and impetration There appeareth small difference betweene the former practise and that which some Romane Casuists censure as superstitious to wit to place vertue and to ascribe effects to the precise number of words and syllables when the same is not appointed by God IESVIT Neither are we in this point of repeating Prayers vpon Beades or little stones in a certaine number for the causes before mentioned destitute of the example of Saints that liued in the best ages of the Church Palladius in his Historie setteth downe some examples of Saints praying in this kinde yea the Centurie Writers and Osiander acknowledge the example of Saint Paul a most holy Monke liuing in the fourth age after Christ that In dies singulos trecentas orationes Deo velut tributum reddidit 〈◊〉 ne per imprudentiam in numero erraret trecentis lapillis in sinum coniectis ad singulas preces singulos eijcit lapillos consumptis igitur lapillis constabat sibi orationes lapillis numero pares abs se expletas esse Which example of so great a Saint so knowne and notorious and neuer censured by any Father may more than abundantly suffice for satisfaction in a matter of no more moment than this for wee are not curious in this point nor doe require of any man that he say his Prayers in a certaine number so as that he may not say more or lesse as his deuotion serues him ANSVVER Palladius his writings are of small credit and this Authour was long agoe censured by the Antient Paulus the Monke in Sosomene made three hundred Prayers to God but not any to the blessed Virgin and his vsing of stones when he said his Prayers is an onely example not paralelled in Antiquitie But singular examples are no rule neither doe they alwayes prooue the thing done to be lawfull for Batheus a Monke in the same Historie vsed such abstinence that wormes bred in his teeth Pior another Monke refused after fiftie yeres absence to looke vpon his naturall sister Ammonius being sollicited to bee a Bishop cut off his owne eare to make himselfe vncapable These and the like examples are not censured by the Historian reporting them and yet it is more than probable that it is not safe for others to imitate them In like sort Paulus his beades are a matter of singularitie rehearsed by Sozomene rather for noueltie than
iustifie their departure How could he say this since he did not graunt that they did depart There is difference betweene departure and causelesse thrusting from you for out of the Church is not in your power to thrust vs Thinke on that And so much the B. said expressely then That which the B. did ingenuously confesse was this That Corruption in Manners onely is no sufficient cause to make a seperation in the Church Nor is it It is a truth agreed on by the Fathers and receiued by Diuines of all sorts saue by the Cathari to whom came the Donatist and the Anabaptist against which Caluin disputes it strongly And Saint Augustine is plaine There are bad Fish in the Net of the Lord from which there must be euer a seperation in heart and in manners but a corporall seperation must be expected at the Sea shore that is the end of the World And the best Fish that are must not teare and breake the Net because the bad are with them And this is as ingenuously confessed for you as by the B. For if Corruption in Manners were a iust cause of actuall seperation of one Church from another in that Catholike Bodie of Christ the Church of Rome hath giuen as great cause as any since as Stapleton graunts there is scarce any sinne that can be thought by man Heresie onely excepted with which that Sea hath not beene foulely stayned especially from eight hundred yeeres after Christ. And he need not except Heresie into which Biel grants it possible the Bishops of that Sea may fall And Stella and Almain grants it freely that some of them did fall and so ceased to be Heads of the Church and left Christ God be thanked at that time of his Vicars Defection to looke to his Cure himselfe F. But saith he beside Corruption of Manners there were also Errors in Doctrine B. This the B. spake indeed And can you prooue that he spake not true in this But the B. added though here againe you are pleased to omit That some of her Errors were dangerous to saluation For it is not euerie light Error in disputable Doctrine and Points of curious Speculation that can be a iust cause of seperation in that admirable Bodie of Christ which is his Church for which he gaue his Naturall Bodie to be rent and torne vpon the Crosse that this Mysticall Bodie of his might be One. And S. Augustine inferres vpon it That he is no way partaker of Diuine Charitie that is an enemie to this Vnitie Now what Errors in Doctrine may giue iust cause of seperation in this Bodie were it neuer so easie to determine as I thinke it is most difficult I would not venture to set it downe least in these times of Discord I might be thought to open a Doore for Schisme which I will neuer doe vnlesse it be to let it out But that there are Errors in Doctrine and some of them such as endanger saluation in the Church of Rome is euident to them that will not shut their eyes The proofe whereof runs through the particular Points that are betweene vs and so it is too long for this discourse which is growne too bigge alreadie F. Which when the generall Church would not reforme it was lawfull for particular Churches to reforme themselues I asked Quo Iudice Did this appeare to be so B. Is it then such a strange thing that a particular Church may reforme it selfe if the generall will not I had thought and doe so still That in point of Reformation of either Manners or Doctrine it is lawfull for the Church since Christ to doe as the Church before Christ did and might doe The Church before Christ consisted of Iewes and Proselytes this Church came to haue a seperation vpon a most vngodly Policie of 〈◊〉 so that it neuer pieced together againe To a Common Councell to reforme all they would not come Was it not lawfull for Iudah to reforme her selfe when Israel would not ioyne Sure it was or else the Prophet deceiues me that sayes exactly Though Israel transgresse yet letnot Iudah sinne And S. Hierome expresses it in this verie patticular sinne of Heresie and Error in Religion Nor can you say that Israel from the time of the seperation was not a Church for there were true Prophets in it Elias and Elizaeus and others and thousands that had not bowed knees to Baal And there was saluation for these which cannot be where there is no Church And God threatens to cast them away to wander among the Nations and be no Congregation no Church therefore he had not yet cast them away into Non Ecclesiam into no Church And they are expressely called the people of the Lord in Iehu's time and so continued long after Nor can you plead that Iudah is your part and the Ten Tribes ours as some of you doe for if that be true you must graunt that the Multitude and greater number is ours And where then is Multitude your numerous Note of the Church But you cannot plead it For certainely if any Calues be set vp they are in Dan and Bethel they are not ours Besides to reforme what is amisse in Doctrine or Manners is as lawfull for a particular Church as it is to publish and promulgate any thing that is Catholike in either And your Question Quo iudice lyes alike against both And yet I thinke it may be prooued that the Church of Rome and that as a particular Church did promulgate an Orthodoxe Truth which was not then Catholikely admitted in the Church namely The Procession of the Holy Ghost from the Sonne If shee erred in this Fact confesse her Error if shee erred not Why may not another Church doe as shee did A learned Schooleman of yours saith she may The Church of Rome needed not to call the Grecians to agree vpon this Truth since the Authoritie of publishing it was in the Church of Rome especially since it is lawfull for euerie particular Church to promulgate that which is Catholike Nor can you say he meanes Catholike as fore-determined by the Church in generall for so this Point when Rome added Filioque to the Creed of a Generall Councell was nor And how the Grecians were vsed in the after Councell such as it was of Florence is not to trouble this Dispute but Catholike stands there for that which is so in the 〈◊〉 of it and fundamentally Nor can you iustly say That the Church of Rome did or might doe this by the Popes Authoritie 〈◊〉 the Church For suppose he haue that and that his Sentence be infallible I say suppose both but I giue neither yet neither his Authoritie nor his 〈◊〉 can belong vnto him as the particular Bishop of that See but as the 〈◊〉 Head of the whole Church And you are all so lodged in this that Bellarmine professes he can neither tell the
EFFIGIES DOCTISSIMI UIRI D NI FRANCISCI WHITE S. T. PROFESSORIS ET ECCLESIAE CATHIS CARLEOLENSIS DECANI Aº AETA 59 ANNO 1624 Wisdome and grace see in that modest looke Trueth 's 〈◊〉 errors downfall in this booke Maerebunt piscatores Isa. 19. 8. HONI SOIT QVI MAL Y PENSE BEATI PACIFICI Bv Francis WHITE D. of Div Deane of Carlile Chaplaine to his Matie Hereunto is annexed a Conference of the right R B of St Dauids wth the same Iesuit Cirprianus de lapsis Nec Ecclesiae iungitur qui ab Euāgelio seperatur VERITAS VNIVOCA VERITATE APERIT DIES MENDACIV̄ AEQUIVOCŪ ERROR CAECUS ET FALLAX PISCATORIS RETE HABET RANAS LONDON Printed by Adam Islip 1624. TO THE MOST HIGH AND POTENT MONARCH JAMES OF GREAT BRITTAINE FRANCE and IRELAND King Defender of the Faith my Soueraigne Lord and Maister MOST GRACIOVS and Religious Soueraine it is apparent that the externall Tuition and Projection of Orthodoxall Veritie and Religion next vnder the Almightie doth principally belong to Christian Princes which are by Office and Vocation the Lords Annointed Sonnes of the most High and supreme Regents of this inferior World vnder God The Donates in times past denyed the lawfull Authoritie of Christian Princes in superuising and externall gouerning Ecclesiasticall Causes saying Quid est Imperatori cum Ecclesia What hath Imperiall or Regall Maiestie to doe with the Church But Optatus stileth this a braine-sick Error saying Ille Parmenio furore succensus c. And S. Augustine contesting with these malepart Heretikes saith Jn hoc Reges Deo seruiunt c. Kings according to the Diuine Precept serue the Lord as they be Kings when they command good and prohibite euill not in Ciuile Affaires onely but in Matters which concerne Diuine Religion Jsiodor Hispal saith Secular Princes sometimes that is when they are Christians haue eminent Authoritie intra Ecclesiam within the Church to fortifie Ecclesiasticall Discipline Princes of the Earth saith S. Augustine serue Christ by making Lawes for Christ. And againe Ciuile Vertues in higher Powers auaile them not for eternall Beatitude vnlesse withall they gouerne their People in true Religion And in another Epistle Jt appertaines to Religious Princes to represse by iust seueritie not onely Adulterie Homicide and other hainous Crimes against men but also Sacrilegious Jmpietie against God The Euangelicall Prophet fore-tells that Kings should be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Nursing or Foster-Fathers of the Christian Church Esa. 49.23 Also they are Shepheards of the Almightie and concurrents for the building of his House Esa. 44.28 King Josiah reformed the Iewish Church suppressed Impietie restored true Religion 2. King 23. And hee was herein so farre from transcending the bounds of Regall Authoritie that the Holy Ghost faith of him Like him was there no King before him neither after him arose there any like Constantine the Great by Imperiall Lawes established true Religion Hee appointeth Festiuall Dayes prescribeth what Bishops shall doe for the Churches auaile Hee 〈◊〉 Synods is himselfe an Assessor and Agent among the Nicene Fathers Hee 〈◊〉 and directeth the Bishops Hee confirmeth the Decrees of the Great Councell of Nice and compelleth his Christian subjects to professe the Faith determined in that Synod Now of this Grand Patron of Christian Faith and the true Professors thereof S. Augustine affirmeth The God of Heauen enriched him with such large Blessings in this World Quanta optare nullus auderet as one could not haue presumed to wish S. Cyrill of Alexandria writing to Christian Princes which did the like sayth The Orient Pearles and bright-shining Diamonds of Jndia doe not so much adorne your Royall Heads as your care and protection of true Pietie maketh your sacred Persons venerable and glorious Your most excellent Maiestie walketh in the Religious wayes of those renowned Princes and their example hath euer been the President of the exercising your Royall Authoritie in sacred Causes and of your constant resolution in professing and protecting true Religion The Almightie hath placed you within your Dominions his supreme Vicegerent He hath made you greater than Joseph ouer his House and a Joshua ouer his People you are a Signet vpon the Lords right hand neuer to be plucked off He hath exalted you in Hominem a Deo secundum quicquid est a Deo consecutum solo Deo minorem as Tertullian speaketh the immediate visible person within your Kingdomes vnder himselfe receiuing all your Authoritie and Maiestie from his owne hand and hee hath made you inferior to none but himselfe and to vse S. Cyrils words vttered to Theodosius Vestrae serenitati nullus status est aequalis No State is equall much lesse may ouer-top your serene Maiesties But together with your Regall Power and Authoritie the Almightie hath enriched your heart aboue many other Princes of the World with incomparable Wisdome and Iudgement in matters Religious and Diuine as not onely your owne subiects but euen Forrainers haue obserued and that is fulfilled in you which S. Athanasius once vttered in an Epistle to Jouianus the Emperour Decora eximia res est in principe mens discendi auida rerum Coelestium cupido inde enim fit vt cor tuum vere sie in manu Dei It is a gracious and excellent qualitie in a great Prince to haue a mind desirous of knowledge and affecting the intelligence of Coelestiall things for hereby it commeth to passe that your heart is indeed in the hand of God It is the happinesse therefore of your loyall and Orthodoxall subiects which answere for Veritie against Error that they may defend the same before a King expert in the Questions whereof they dispute and whose cleare-seeing Iudgement like the fining Furnace is able to make difference betweene Gold and Drosse And this hath animated me to present my Replie To a Jesuits Answere of certaine Questions controuerted betweene Papals and vs to your most sacred Maiestie I receiued the Aduersaries Disputation by my Lord Duke of Buckingham who enioyned me in your Maiesties Name to examine and answere the same I could not but admire your Princely zeale to haue true Religion maintained as well by Disputation as by your iust Lawes And although I was conscious to my selfe of the want of those more eminent Graces which are found in greater Diuines yet hauing sensibly obserued your owne vnfained and 〈◊〉 loue to the Religion which we professe and being greatly encouraged by the Noble Duke who is your Maiesties very Image in the constant profession and maintenance of Orthodoxall Veritie I became obedient to your sacred Commandement And now concluding I most humbly desire you who resemble him that dwelling on high despiseth not things below accepting euen the poore Widowes Mite and Goats hayre where greater substance is wanting to giue me leaue to consecrate this my Reply to your most serene Maiestie I confesse this Worke to be ouermeane
in respect of your exact Iudgement and excelse Dignitie yet in regard of the Author it is a free will Offering intended to the honour of God and of your sacred Maiestie and to confirme your Liege people in right Faith and true loue and obedience of your most iust and gracious Gouernment As an Angell of God so is my Lord the King to discerne good and bad therefore the Lord thy God will be with thee 2. Sam. 14. 17. Your Maiesties Chapleine and Seruant FRAN. WH TO THE READER IT is now two yeeres since I was first called by my Lord Duke of Buckingham to conferre with an Honourable Person who as then began to make Reuolt from the true Faith and Religion professed in our Church By this Occasion J entred into a Disputation with one Mr Iohn Fisher a Jesuit the same person which was the Author of the two Bookes against which my younger Brother Dr Iohn White wrote his Way to the true Church and the Defence of the same After my first Conference with the aforesaid Jesuit ensued not long after a Second at which his most excellent Maiestie himselfe was present The Cause as J afterwards perceiued of his Presence was a gracious desire to recouer the foresaid Honorable Person out of the Fishers Net Then there followed a Third Conference betweene a most Learned and Reuerend Bishop and the said Jesuit intended to the same purpose Lastly his Royall Maiestie in his deepe Judgement hauing obserued by the former Conferences and especially by the second that our Aduersaries are cunning and subtile in eluding our Arguments brought against them but of no strength especially in particular Questions when they come to the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and confirmation of their owne Tenet He was pleased to haue Nine Questions of Controuersie propounded to the Jesuit that hee might in writing manifest the Grounds and Arguments whereupon the Popish Faith in those Points was builded For his Maiestie in his owne Judgement and Experience knew most certainely That Romists are not able to confirme 〈◊〉 Faith either by sacred Scripture or by antient Tradition And therefore their manner is when they dispute with Protestants viua voce to auoid other Controuersies and to set vp their rest vpon the Questions of the Visibilitie and Authoritie of the Church Therefore the better to discouer their weakenesse and to plucke them out of their Fox-hole of Personall Succession and Vistbilitie the King imposed this Taske of writing vpon the Nine Questions Besides his Maieftie had experience of the mfaithfull dealing of Pontificians when they make Relation of such things as passe by word of mouth onely in priuate Disputations and hee well vnderstood 〈◊〉 the Cretising Jesuit had dealt with a 〈◊〉 Bishop and with my selfe For had wee beene Schoole-Boyes of thirteene yeeres old he could not haue made vs seeme more childish and vnskilfull than hee did dispersing Hundreds of Papers to his owne prayse and our disgrace Wherefore it was necessarie that some publique Worke containing the Grounds and Arguments of his part and the Answere and Replie on ours might be extant wherein neither his nor our Yea and Nay should take place sed res cum re causa cum causa c. the weight of matter on each part might testifie for it selfe Now who could command this to be done but the King himselfe who therefore made the former proposition of Nine Questions to the Jesuit that the World might see the vttermost of his strength and againe they might haue meanes to iudge rightly of our Cause and of our proceedings in handling the same Mine owne purpose at the first was to haue published in Print a Narration of my two Disputations and as farre as my Memorie would serue me I had to that end collected in writing the summe of those Conferences But obseruing afterwards by another Disputation which was printed that our Aduersaries will perpetually tumultuate and accuse of falsitie all things which passe not vnder their owne hands knowing also that my selfe could not exactly remember all passages of the Jesuits Disputation and mine there being not a word written at the time when wee disputed J deferred the printing thereof vntill this greater Worke was finished The Aduersarie in this Answere which his Friend deliuered the King hath disputed Eight of the Questions propounded by his Maiestie and he declineth the Ninth for Reasons well knowne to the World and in stead of a Disputation he passeth ouer that Article of deposing Kings with a Rethoricall Declamation But before the Nine Questions hee placeth a large Disputation prouided no doubt aforehand and expecting onely a prosperous Wind of Occasion to send it abroad touching the Rule of Faith concerning Scripture and Tradition the Notes of the Church c. Then to counterpoise the Kings Nine Articles he chargeth our Church with Nine remarkable Errors as he accounteth them Jn the former part of his Tractate is contained the summe and substance of the first Conference betweene him and me before the Lord Keeper and the Lord Duke of Buckingham Jn the Questions of Jmages Transubstantiation Communion in both kinds is contained also the summe of the second Conference but there are many Additions in each Question and hee handleth matters more exactly in his written Worke than hee did in his priuate Disputations J haue examined his whole Treatise and answered euery passage thereof printing his Worke verbatim with mine owne The World must take notice that I am a constant Preacher in a Pastorall Charge and therefore J could not ose such expedition as other men may which imploy their whole time strength in writing Besides my Worke being finished before Michaelmas last bath bin long in Printing by reason of the number of Quotations in the Margen These Citations are for this cause word for word out of the Authors placed in my Booke that the Worke may be more vsefull especially to such persons as want the benefit of Libraries and much Reading themselues J haue with as much diligence as morally a Scholler can vse collected my Testimonies out of the very Authors themselues The Reader shall not need to feare or distrust vnlesse where the Printer hath made Escapes which cannot alwayes be auoided in a Worke of this nature And I must entreat the Reader where he obserueth any Error in the Print to correct the same with his Pen. Neither must the vnlearneder sort be offended if they light vpon some hard passages because the matter it selfe is many times very abstruse and disputing with Aduersaries which are Sophisters I am compelled to vse Schollasticke tearmes and to turne their owne Weapons vpon themselues But so farre as I am able I haue endeuored to be perspicuous Of my Aduersaries I request nothing at all for it is in vaine But if they reply it shall be for their greater honour to set downe my Text as I haue done theirs And they shall but beat the ayre vnlesse they confirme the maine Branches of their
haue vs reade touching his owne sayings and workes this hee commanded the Euangelists as it were his owne hands to write And in another place Although Christ spake and wrought some things which are not written yet those things which seemed vnto him sufficient to the saluation of beleeuers were selected to be written Saint Cyrill also affirmeth that all things which Christ did are not written but so much as holy writers iudged sufficient both for good manners and godly faith to the end that we shining in right faith good workes and vertue may attaine the heauenly Kingdome By the iudgement of these Fathers the holy Euangelists committed to writing so much of our Sauiours Doctrine and deeds as is sufficient for people to know that they may bee illustrious in faith and vertue and by the light whereof they may come to saluation In these things therefore the Euangelists did not cursorily touch matters but largely and fully deliuer them Secondly if the Scriptures containe all things sufficient to saluation yea more than is sufficient then the Apostles in their Scriptures did not cursorily or by the way onely touch matters But the first is affirmed both by the Fathers and confessed by some learned Papists Vincent 〈◊〉 The Canon of the Scripture is perfit and in it selfe sufficient for all matters yea more than sufficient Antonius Perez Pentateuch fidei vol. 4. c. 21. If the Scripture be compared and applied with things which faith teacheth as necessarie to saluation the same is apparently redundant and superfluous according to the nature of a rule because there be many things yea most things in the same the knowledge whereof is vnnecessarie But if the Scripture containe many 〈◊〉 superfluous and more than is needfull it is improbable 〈◊〉 thinke that it is imperfect in Principals or deliuereth them 〈◊〉 onely or by the way Thirdly the variety and multitude of points and doctrines of faith and good manners and the often repeating and declaring of them in the holy Scriptures prooueth that the Apostles 〈◊〉 fully and perfectly deliuer in their writings the whole 〈◊〉 of Christian faith and not onely cursorily touch them For all supernaturall veritie concerning the sacred Deitie Trinitie diuine Attributes and Operations Creation of the world c. is taught in holy Scripture In like manner the whole doctrine of faith concerning the Incarnation Person and Office of Christ is reuealed vnto vs by holy Scripture And for this cause Saint Cyrill calleth the Scriptures Solos fontes veritatis The sole fountaines of veritie All things concerning Iustification Charitie and good workes being meerely supernaturall are taught in Scripture The doctrine of the Law Gospell Sacraments resurrection of the dead finall iudgement c. is intirely and fully reuealed in the holy Scriptures and the Church according to Saint Augustine hath onely two brests wherewith shee feedeth her children to wit the Scriptures of the Old and New Testament And that he alwayes vnderstandeth by the Old and New Testament the Scriptures of both appeareth by his words vpon Psal. 22. Aperi legamus c. Let vs open our Fathers last Testament and reade it And 〈◊〉 the great 〈◊〉 Apostolice 〈◊〉 nec non antiquorum Prophetarum 〈◊〉 plane 〈◊〉 de sensu Numinis The Euangelicall and Apostolicall bookes together with the Oracles of the antient Prophets doe plainely 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 euidently instruct vs concerning the minde of God And from all the former it is manifest that the Apostles writings are not patches and shreds onely of Apostolicall Doctrine as our 〈◊〉 against all antiquitie presumeth to affirme but the very substance and marrow of their whole Preaching containing the summe of the Gospell by faith and obedience whereof wee receiue euerlasting life And thus much touching the Antecedent of the Iesuits Argument The sequel of the former Argument which is Because without precedent instruction by vnwritten Tradition wee cannot be firmely assured that wee haue the right sence of the Scripture therefore the last and finall resolution is made vnto vnwritten Tradition and not into Scripture is inconsequent and the Antecedent proueth not the Consequent for precedent Tradition may bee necessarie to deliuer vnto vs the text of holy Scripture and Precpts how to expound and vse the same and by Tradition wee may receiue a Commentarie of some texts of holy Scripture yet euen as a Schollar although hee receiue the bookes of Euclid and Aristotle from a Master and precepts in what sort hee shall proceed in his studie and withall a Commentary declaring the meaning of these Authours yet hee doth not finally being made learned himselfe resolue his knowledge into the former but into the principles of these Arts themselues so likewise a nouice in faith receiueth the holy Scripture by Ministerie and Tradition of the Church and Precepts and Commentaries whereby hee is first inabled and afterwards holpen in the right exposition thereof yet after this Introduction by further studie and diligence hee collecteth Arguments from the Scripture it selfe and being instructed in the sence thereof he doth not finally resolue his beleefe into the Commentarie and Introduction but into the text or Doctrine of holy Scripture it selfe IESVIT Hence I may further inferre that Protestants haue not throughly pondered the place of the Apostle vnto Timothie which they 〈◊〉 vehemently vrge to prooue the sufficiencie of sole Scripture for euery man as though he had said absolutely that the Scriptures are able to instruct or make men wise vnto Saluation which he saith not but speaking particularly vnto Timothie saith They are able to instruct or make thee wise vnto saluation 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hast been aforehand instructed by word of mouth and doost thereupon firmely beleeue all substantiall Doctrines and knowest all the necessarie practise of Christian Discipline ANSWER The Aduersarie in this passage vseth certaine Arguments to prooue that Protestants misunderstand the Text of S. Paul 2. Timoth. 3.15 16. when they vrge the same to maintaine the sufficiencie of sole Scripture to be a ground for all Christians finally to rest their faith vpon His first Argument is The Apostle saith not absolutely that the Scriptures are able to make all men wise vnto Saluation but particularly to Timothie a man instructed aforehand and formerly 〈◊〉 all substantiall grounds of Doctrine and Discipline they are able 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to make thee being such a one and so prepared wise c. To this I answere 1. That although sentences of holy Scripture are sometimes restrained to the personall or particular subiect of which they are first spoken yet this is not generall and when the same happeneth it must be prooued by better Arguments than by the bare Emphasis of a word For God said to Ioshua a man qualified aboue the ordinarie ranke I will not leaue thee nor forsake thee Ioshua 1. 5. yet the promise implied in this Text is generall and common to all iust
sight of the inferiour world and of the secrets of hearts is without cause reputed incommunicable with them according to the saying of Saint Prosper Nothing is so secret as the knowledge thereof may bee denyed vnto the perfectly Blessed their seeing God with pure vnderstanding being without comparison a thing more excellent Thus Saint Prosper whose Argument doth conuince That Saints may know what is done in the world and also the secrets of hearts For to see the whole world and what is done in it is not higher knowledge nor requires a more perfect vnderstanding than to see face to face the Diuine essence immense and incomprehensible before whom the world is no more than Momentum staterae guttaroris antelucani but the Saints of God according to Christian Faith haue an eleuated vnderstanding able to behold clearely and distinctly the Diuine essence with the infinite beauties and perfections thereof How then can a Christian conceiue so meanly of them as to doubt whether they haue sufficient vnderstanding to behold things done in this inferiour world as farre as they belong to their state ANSVVER If it be not certaine either by Diuine Reuelation or by other infallible demonstration That the blessed Saints deceased heare and vnderstand our Prayers and behold the secret thoughts and intention of the heart then it is a vaine thing to pray vnto them by the confession of many of our Aduersaries but it is not certaine either by Diuine Reuelation or by any other infallible demonstration That the soules of the blessed Saints deceased heare and vnderstand our Prayers and behold the secret thoughts and intention of the heart First This degree of knowledge is appropriated to God himselfe 1. Kings 8.39 2. Chro. 6.30 Rom. 8.27 Ier. 17.10 Heb. 4.13 1. Cor. 14.25 Iob 34.21 22. Psal. 11.4 Pro. 15.3 1. Cor. 1. 11. Secondly That hee communicateth the same at leastwise ordinarily to the glorified Saints is not reuealed in his Word Thirdly The Iesuits Argument to wit The glorious Saints behold the Diuine essence immense and incomprehensible with the infinite beautie and perfections thereof face to face 1. Cor. 13. 12. 1. Iohn 3.2 Ergo They behold the secrets of mens hearts liuing on earth is denied for glorious Saints behold the Diuine essence in a finite manner and according to the measure and capacitie of creatures and so farre foorth onely as it pleaseth God and is sufficient for their beatitude But no diuine Reuelation affirmeth that it pleaseth God or is necessarie to their beatitude that they should vnderstand the secrets of mens hearts heere vpon earth and accordingly Saint Augustine saith The soules of the defunct are there where they see not all things which are done or which happen to people in this life And concerning the sequel of the former Argument Aquinas himselfe saith The blessed Angels behold the Diuine Essence and yet they know not all things but they are ignorant of future things being contingent and of the cogitations of the heart And whereas the Argument is further pressed They which know or see the greater vnderstand and behold the lesse But the Saints behold the Essence of God which is the greater and therefore they vnderstand the secrets of mens hearts The Answere is That if the greater and the lesse be of the same kinde and if the greater doe necessarily represent the lesse ad extra or externally and hee which vnderstandeth the greater comprehendeth the whole perfection and latitude thereof then it is true that they which know or see the greater vnderstand and see the lesse but if any of these conditions be wanting then the same is false First Euery one which beholdeth the Sunne doeth not behold euery thing which the Sunne effecteth or inlightneth Secondly Angels behold the face of God Math. 18. 10. and yet they may be ignorant of some inferiour things to wit of some supernaturall misteries Eph. 3.10 and of the houre when the day of iudgement shall be Math. 24.36 And Bannes saith No blessed Saint beholdeth all indiuiduals or their cogitations in the diuine Essence IESVIT Secondly As for the secrets of hearts God is without comparison more spirituall more secret more inuisible and out of the sight of naturall vnderstanding than is any the most secret thought of man or Angell and yet the Saints haue so cleere penetrating and all discouering light as they do most perspicuously discerne the diuine most hidden and vnsearchable Essence What reason then is there why Christians should thinke the secrets of mens hearts inuisible and vnsearchable vnto them If we looke into Scripture as the heart of man is said to be vnsearchable but to God onely so likewise God is said to be inuisible but only to himselfe so that to Saints together with the sight of hearts we must deny the fight of God or else interpret the sayings of Scipture That mans heart and God are inuisible to wit by meere naturall light and that both are visible vnto Saints by that light whereof the Prophet said In thy light we shall see the light ANSWER The inconsequence of this Argument is palpable for there is the same reason of Angells and of glorified Saints in respect of beatifical vision But Angels although they behold the face of God yet they vnderstand not the cogitations of mans heart according to the Tenet of Aquinas himselfe And if the Aduersarie flie to diuine Reuelation and will affirme that Angels and blessed Saints vnderstand the thoughts of mens hearts because God doth manifest the same vnto them as he did sometimes to the Prophets First he must remember that his bare word or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is no proofe for he was neuer in heauen to bring vs newes from thence the word of God is silent in teaching this Doctrine Secondly if God reucale and report the prayers of the liuing to the Saints before the Saints know them God is a Nuncio and as it were a Mediator betweene one creature and another and the inuocation of Saints is a circle first passing immediately to God himselfe then from God to Saints and then backe againe to God Thirdly Cardinall Bellarmine himselfe sheweth the weakenesse of the former assertion of our Aduersarie saying If the Saints needed a new Reuelation the Church could not with such boldnesse say to all the Saints Pray for vs but it should rather beseech God at least sometimes that he would reueale our Prayers vnto them Besides the reason could not so easily be giuen why Saints should be inuocated now and not be inuocated before Christs comming IESVIT If there were a glasse of Diamond so cleere and excellent that whatsoeuer is done in London in secret corners should therein particularly and distinctly appeare surely he that hath eyes to see that glasse may likewise therein discerne what is done all ouer the citie Now most
Preepts of the old and new Testament some personall circumstances may be noted and yet the substance of the Commandement is generall 1. Cro. 28.9 Pro. 30.1.3 Math. 18.2.3 Ioh. 13.13 14. Also we may consider a twofold vnitie of the Cup Specifical and Indiuiduall to drinke of the same indiuiduall Cup euen as to eate of the same indiuiduall loase is an accidentall circumstance But to drinke and receiue the common kind to wit the fruit of the Wine this is the substance of the Commandement If we parallell the Obiection the defect is manifestly ridiculous It is not of the substance of Christs Commandement That lay People shall receiue consecrated Bread at the Communion because the Bread which Christ gaue his Disciples was of one Indiuiduall loafe but the bread of one indiuiduall loafe will not suffice all men in the world therefore the Precept of receiuing consecrated Bread was Personall and concerned the Apostles only Now if a man should vse this Argument which in substance is the same with the Iesuits he had in my opinion more cause to blush for shame than to glory before the Presence of a most iudicious and learned King as this vaine Boaster doth IESVIT Another text of Scripture some vrge to prooue That Communion vnder one kind is commanded to wit the famous place out of the sixt chapter of S. Iohn Except ye eate the flesh and drinke the bloud of the Sonne of man you shall not haue life in you Where our Sauiour vnder the penaltie of loosing eternall life commands not onely eating but also drinking Perchance your Maiestie doth not stand much vpon this as not beleeuing that chapter of S. Iohn to concerne the Sacramentall sumption of our Sauiours Flesh as also some learned Catholikes hold Not withstanding though we grant that Chapter to concerne the eating and drinking in the Sacrament as most of the Fathers teach yet this obiection may be easily satisfied by the former Principles for as we distinguish in the Sacrament the substance and the manner The substance being to receiue the body of Christ the manner in both kinds by formall eating and drinking so the same distinction is to be made in our Sauiours Precept about this Sacrament For howsoeuer his words may sound of the manner of receiuing in both kinds yet his intention is to command no more than the substance to wit that we really receiue his body and bloud which may be done vnder one kind This is made cleere by the Precept by our Sauiour giuen about another Sacrament to wit Baptisme where though his words seeme to define the manner yet his mind was but to determine the substance He saith to his Apostles Baptise all nations in the name of the Father and of the Sonne and of the holy Ghost To baptise signifies the same that the Greeke word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is not to wet or sprinkle with water but to put and plunge into the Water by immersion bathing them in water in which respect Baptisme is tearmed by the Apostle the Lauer or Bath of the renouation of the holy Ghost And yet because the Church teacheth Baptisme by 〈◊〉 or sprinkling to be sufficient and substantiall Baptisme no lesse than Baptisme by immersion Christians must and doe so interpret the words of Christ Baptize that is plunge into the water all Nations to command onely cleansing and washing in substance not the manner thereof by immersion as his words may seeme to import and the Primitiue Church did the first sixe hundred yeares practise Jn this like sort the words Vnlesse you eate the flesh of the Sonne of man and drinke of his bloud you shall not haue life in you be preceptiue no further than they signifie reall receiuing of his body and bloud not the manner of both kinds as may appeare by the intention of the Commaundement For as Christ gaue this Precept of Eating and Drinking onely to the end that wee might haue life in vs so likewise he meant to command the same no further than it was necessary to this end But eating formally the body of Christ vnder the forme of Bread and vertually and implicitly his bloud as contayned within his Sacred body suffiseth that we may haue life in vs as he promiseth in the same place He that eateth this Bread shall liue for euer What necessitie then is there to vnderstand this Precept of formall receiuing in both kinds But further I adde the coniunctiue particle and signifies disjunctiuely the same that vel or as Argentum aurum non est mihi and particularly of this Sacrament He that eateth and drinketh vnworthily eateth and drinketh damnation the sence is disjunctiue eateth or drinketh vnworthily In this sort the words of Christ Except you eate and drinke is to be vnderstood disjunctiuely Except you eate the flesh or drinke the bloud of the Sonne of man you shall not haue life in you Which disjunctiue sence to be the sence intended in this place may be prooued because else Christ should be contrary to himselfe for seeing in the ver 59. of this Chapter He promiseth life eternall to eating onely Qui manducat panem viuit in aeternum If in the foure and fiftie verse of the same Chapter he require vnto himselfe life euerlasting eating and drinking both he should in the space of a few lines speake contraries And because this is impossible wee interprete the place disiunctiuely vnlesse you eate or drinke c. ANSWER Cardinall Bellarmine affirmeth that the Text of Saint Iohn cap. 6. is to be expounded of the holy Eucharist and not onely of spirituall receiuing but also of Sacramentall eating and drinking the Bodie and Blood of Christ And hee saith that although some Catholickes to wit Gabriel Biel Cusanus Caietan Ruard Tapper Hesselius and 〈◊〉 expound this Chapter of spirituall Receiuing yet other Pontificians hold as himselfe doth with Bellarmine also agree Suares Vasques Gregorie Valence Salmeron Barradius c. From this Exposition it followeth That Communicants when they partake the holy Eucharist ought to receiue in both kindes for our Sauiour saith Iohn 6.54 He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood c. 55. My flesh is meate indeed and my blood is drinke indeed 56. Hee that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood dwelleth in me and I in him 53. Except ye eate the flesh and drinke the blood of the Sonne of man c. Our Aduersarie after some staggering about the place Ioh. 6. condescendeth at last to Bellarmines Tenet and admitting that Saint Iohn treateth of Sacramentall Receiuing answeres the former places by a distinction of substance and manner saying That howsoeuer Christs words may sound of the manner of Receiuing in both kinds yet his intention is to command no more than the substance and he prooueth this by the example of Baptisme wherein although according to the letter dipping and plunging
no dispencer of Grace 357 360. Halfe Christs Kingdome 361 362 Visibilitie of the Church 7 50 60 96 Vniuersalitie 74 101 W The Waldenses and Leonists 105 130 139 Wicked persons no true Members of the Catholike Church 53 200 The wicked eat not Christs flesh 407 Wine as necessarie as Bread in the Eucharist 471 Worship of Images 209 228 241 FINIS Escapes in Printing FOl. 3. D. for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 read 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 fol. 31. E. for immediately read mediately fol. 50. D. for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 read 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 fol. 49. C. for Pastres read Pastors fol 50. for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 read 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ibid. D. after 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 insert 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 fol 62 A. for Damascen read 〈◊〉 fol. 62. B. for canta read cauta fol. 63. E. for innisible read inuisible fol. 70. for desensoris read Aug. c. Petil. d. 〈◊〉 fol. 106 B. for redargurere read redarguere fol. 109 for vnde read Otho Frising b. inde fol. 117. C for Agustine read Augustine fol. 127. Theoderit A. for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 read 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 fol. 132 E. to lawfulnesse adde whereof fol. 138. Gregorie F. for commissi read commisi fol. 150. Tho. Wald. F. for centia read sentio fol. 281. Vasq F. for contemplat read contemplati fol. 291. B. for first read fift vniuersall Councell fol. 300. A. for is expressely read is not expressely fol. 327. B. Alchasar for ille read illi fol. 360. E. Stel. Cor. Mar. for animas read animam fol. 524. August B. for praefect read de perfectione Ibid. Arausican Concil C. for gratiae read gratia Ibid. Bernard d. for Notal read Natal Dom. fol. 527. August C. for inuenire read inuenies fol. 557. F. for owards read towards fol. 559. Theoderit D. for solutis read salutis fol. 560. A. for Guilliandus read Guilliaudus fol. 563. for Scoto read Soto m. fol. 564. A. Enchir. Sarisb for vndecima read vndecem AN ANSVVERE TO Mr FISHERS Relation of a Third Conference betweene a certaine B. as he stiles him and himselfe The Conference was very priuate till Mr FISHER spread certaine Papers of it which in many respects deserued an Answere Which is here giuen by R. B. Chapleine to the B. that was imployed in the Conference LONDON Printed by ADAM ISLIP 1624. TO THE READER THis which followes though it needeth Patronage as great as may be had yet it is such as may not presume to aske it therefore it thrusts it selfe to the End of these Labours that it may seeme to haue the same Patron I would haue put nothing before it were it not necessarie you should know the Cause why the following Discourse was written why it stayed so long before it looked vpon the Light and why it is not able yet to goe alone but is led abroad by this former Worke. The Cause why it was written was this A certaine B. in the Iesuit's stile was called and required to a Conference by Them that might command him The Iesuit with whom hee had to deale was Mr Fisher. Hee began with great Protestations of seeking the Truth onely and for it selfe I would the B. could haue found it so After the Conference ended a great part of which time he spent in reading a passage out of a Booke which himselfe had printed the B. not suspecting any such thing hee spread abroad Papers of the Conference which were full of partialicie to his Cause and more full of Calumnie against the B. Hereupon the B. deliuered me the Papers that were spread and a Note what was mis-spread in them to the vttermost of his Memorie and other helpes And I not departing from that haue here entirely deliuered it to the vse of the Church There was a Cause also why it stayed so long before it could endure to be pressed and you must know that too It was not my idlenesse nor my vnwillingnesse to right both the B. and his Cause against the Paper that was scattered For I haue most Honorable Witnesses that this Thing such as it is was finished long since for the Papers came to my hand after Michaelmasse 1622. and J finished this Relation to them that Tearme But the cause was partly mine owne backwardnesse to deale with these men For they pretend onely for Truth and Vnitie but will 〈◊〉 neither vnlesse they and their Faction may preuaile in all Whereas it is a thing impossible so many deuout and learned men in diuers Ages and Parts of the Church should still pray and sometimes call for a Reformation if the Church had not warped at all or if no Reformation were necessarie And partly because there were about that time three Conferences with Mr. Fisher Two at which the worthie Authour of this fore-going Discourse was present This was the Third and therefore could not well and conueniently come into the world till the two former vpon which it somewhat depended had shewed themselues And the Cause why it cannot yet goe alone but is led into publicke by this former Worke is because before those Nine Articles there goeth a Preface which together with some of the Articles themselues are the mayne and substance of all that passed in the Two former Conferences and so they are fittest to take this Third by the hand and lead it forth J haue thus farre acquainted you with the Occasion of the ensuing discourse J haue beene a faithfull Relator of all passages and the B protests hee hath beene faithfull in relating to me But J cannot but 〈◊〉 and hee hath hard Bowells that grieues not to see Christendome bleeding in dissention Nay which is farre worse triumphing in her owne blood and most angry with them that study her Peace Jn the meane time there are Sua their owne things which S. Paul tells vs All men seeke and not the things that are Iesus Christs And Religion so much pretended and called vpon and the Church the Church so much honoured in name are but the stalking horse other Fowle are shot at Complaint is but a seeming ease of weaker spirits it can helpe nothing And since it cannot vse these Papers for a little support It may be these may giue some stay till God giue stronger So I leaue you to be indifferent between the B. and M. Fisher and for my selfe I shall haue reward enough if you pray for Peace and Truth in the Church and so for me Yours in Christ whom I labour to serue R. B. A BRIEFE RELATION OF WHAT PASSED in a third priuate CONFERENCE betweene a certaine B. and me BEFORE c. ANSVVERED BY R. B. Chaplaine to the B. I hope you will pardon the B. if iust occasion hath spunne my Answer for him to length F. The Occasion of this Conference was B. THE Occasion of this third Conference you should know sufficiently you were an Actor in it as well as the rest
which it can comprehend Now the vse of Reason is verie generall and man doe what he can is still apt to search and seeke for a Reason why he will beleeue though after he once beleeues his Faith growes stronger than either his Reason or his Knowledge and great reason for this because it goes higher than eyther of the other can in this life In this particular the Bookes called the Scripture are commonly and constantly reputed to be the Word of God and so infallible Veritie to the least Point of them Doth any man doubt this The World cannot keepe him from going to weigh it at the Ballance of Reason whether it be the Word of God or not To the same Weights he brings the Tradition of the Church the inward motiues in Scripture it selfe all Testimonies within which seeme to beare witnesse to it and in all this there 's no harme the danger is when a man will vse no other Scale but Reason for the Word of God and the Booke containing it refuse not to be weighed by Reason But the Scale is not large enough to containe nor the Weights to measure out the true vertue and 〈◊〉 force of either Reason then can giue no supernaturall ground into which a man may resolue his Faith That Scripture is the Word of God infallibly yet Reason can goe so high as it can prooue that Christian Religion which rests vpon the Authoritie of this Booke stands vpon surer grounds of Nature Reason common Equitie and Iustice than any thing in the World which any Infidell or meere Naturallist hath done doth or can adhere vnto against it in that which he makes accounts or assumes as Religion to himselfe The antient Fathers relyed vpon the Scriptures no Christians more and hauing to doe with Philosophers men verie well seene in all the subtleties which naturall Reason could teach or learne they were often put to it and did as often make it good That they had sufficient warrant to relye as much as they did vpon Scripture In all which Disputes because they were to deale with Infidels they did labour to make good the Authoritie of the Booke of God by such arguments as vnbeleeuers themselues could not but thinke reasonable if they 〈◊〉 them with indifferencie And it is not altogether impossible to prooue it euen by Reason a Truth infallible or else to make them denie some apparant Principle of their owne For example It is an apparant Principle and with them That God or the absolute prime Agent cannot be forced out of any possession for if hee could be forced by another greater he were neither Prince nor Absolute nor God in their owne Theologie Now they must graunt That that God and Christ which the Scripture teaches and wee beleeue is the onely true God and no other with him and so denie the Deitie which they worshipped or else denie their owne Principle about the Deitie That God cannot be commanded and forced out of possession For their Gods Saturne and Serapis and Iupiter himselfe haue beene adiured by the name of the true and onely God and haue beene forced out of the bodies they possessed and confessed themselues to be foule and seducing Deuils And their confession was to be supposed true in point of Reason for they that were adored as Gods would neuer belie themselues into Deuils to their owne reproach especially in the presence of them that worshipped them were they not forced This many of the vnbeleeuers saw therefore they could not in verie force of Reason but they must either denie their God or denie their Principle in Nature Their long Custome would not forsake their God and their Reason could not forget their Principle If Reason therefore might iudge among them they could not worship any thing that was vnder command And if it be reasonable to doe and beleeue this then why not reasonable also to beleeue that the Scripture is his Word giuen to teach himselfe and Christ since there they find Christ doing that and giuing power to doe it after which themselues saw executed vpon their Deuill_Gods Besides whereas all other written Lawes haue scarce had the honour to be duly obserued or constantly allowed worthie approbation in the particular places where they haue beene established for Lawes this Law of Christ and this Canon of Scripture the container of it is or hath beene receiued in almost all Nations vnder Heauen And wheresoeuer it hath beene receiued it hath beene both approoued for vnchangeable Good and beleeued for infallible Veritie This persuasion could not haue beene wrought in men of all sorts but by working vpon their Reason vnlesse wee shall thinke all the World vnreasonable that receiued it And certainely God did not giue this admirable facultie of Reasoning to the Soule of man for any cause more prime than this to discouer or at least to iudge and allow of the way to himselfe when and howsoeuer it should be discouered One great thing that troubled Rationall men was that which stumbled the Manichee an Heresie it was but more than halfe Pagan namely That somewhat must be beleeued before much could be knowne Wise men vse not to beleeue but what they know And the Manichee scorned the Orthodox Christian as light of beleefe promising to lead no Disciple after him but vpon euident knowledge This stumbles many but yet the Principle That somewhat must be beleeued before much can be knowne stands firme in Reason still For if in all Sciences there be some Principles which cannot be prooued if Reason be able to see this and confesse it if almost all Artists haue granted it Who can iustly denie that to Diuinitie A Science of the highest Obiect God himselfe which he easily and reasonably grants to inferior Sciences which are more within his 〈◊〉 And as all Sciences suppose some Principles without proouing so haue they almost all some Text some Authoritie vpon which they relye in some measure and it is Reason they should For though these make not their Texts infallible as Diuinitie doth yet full consent and prudent examination and long continuance haue woon reputation to them and settled reputation vpon them verie deseruedly For were these Texts more void of Truth than they are yet it were fit to vphold their credit that Nouices and young beginners in a Science which are not yet able to worke strongly vpon Reason nor Reason vpon them may haue Authoritie to beleeue till they can learne to conclude from Principles and so to know Is this also reasonable in other Sciences and shall it not be so in Theologie to haue a Text a Scripture a Rule which Nouices may be taught first to beleeue that so they may after come to the knowledge of those things which out of this rich Principle and Treasure are deduceable I yet see not how right Reason can denie these grounds and if it cannot then a meere naturall man may be thus farre conuinced That the