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A12827 A compendious or briefe examination of certayne ordinary complaints of diuers of our country men in these our dayes which although they are in some part vniust & friuolous, yet are they all by vvay of dialogues throughly debated & discussed. By William Stafford, gentleman. Hales, John, d. 1571, attributed name. aut; Smith, Thomas, Sir, 1513-1577, attributed name.; Stafford, William, 1554-1612. 1581 (1581) STC 23133; ESTC S103215 90,708 120

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the reuenewes of this realme is able to make vp y ● like number with Fraunce And then if we should make a lesse number wee should declare our selues inferiour in power to Fraunce to whom wee haue bene hitherto counted Superiour in successes through the stoutenesse of our Englishe hearts And therefore I would not haue a small sore cured by a greater griefe nor for auoydinge of populer Sedicion which happeneth very seldome and soone quenched to bring in a continuall yoake charge both to the Prince and the people Knight You say well and so as I can say no more against your semence but yet I would wishe your saying could satisfie other men as well as it doth mee Doctor Well it is nowe tyme to make an ende I haue troubled you heere with a tedious and longe talke Knight I could be content to be troubled longer of that sorte 〈◊〉 Capper And so coulde wee though it were all this day but for troubling of your selse gentle maister Doctor Knight Yet the most necessary pointe which wee spake of is yet behinde that is how these thinges may be remedied And therefore wee will not goe from you till wee haue hearde your aduice heerein Doctor A Gods name I will shewe my phantasie in that part But let vs first goe to supper And so wee went to gether to our Supper where our Hoste had prepared honestly for vs. THE THYRD DIAlogue wherein are deuised some remedies for the same griefes Knight AFter wee ●…ad well refreshed our selues at supper I thought long till I had knowne y ● iudgement of mays●…r Doctor about the remedies of the thinges aboue rem●…bred how he thought they might bee best redressed and with least daūger or alteration of things And therefore I sayd vnto him thus Since yee haue 〈◊〉 vnto vs good maister Toctor our dis●…ases and also the occasions thereof we pray you leaue vs not destitute of conuenient remedies for the same You haue perswad●…d vs full and wee perceaue it well our selues that we are not now in so good slate as wee haue bene in times past And you haue shewed vs probable occasions that hath brought vs to that case therefore nowe wee pray you shewe vnto vs what mighte remedye these our grie●…es Doctor When a man deth perceaue his griefe and the occasion also of the s●…me hee is in a good way of amendment For knowing the occasion of the gr●…efe a man may soone auoide the same occasion and that being auoyded the griefe is also taken away For as the Phylosopher sayth Sublata causa tollitur effectus But let vs briefly recount y ● grie●…es and then the occasions thereof and thirdly goe to the inquisicion of the remedies for the same First this vniuersall dearth in comparison of y ● former age is y ● chiefest griefe y ● all men complaines most on Secondly Inclosures turning of erable grounde to paslure Thirdly decayinge of Townes Towneshippes and Uillages and last diuision diuersitie of opinions in religion The occasions or causes of these although I haue before diuersly declared after the diuersitie of mens mindes and opinions Yet here I wyll take out of the same But onely such as I thinke verely to be the very iust occasions in deede For as I shewed you before diuers men diuersly iudge this or that to be the cause or occasion of this or that griefe and bicause there may bee diuers causes of one thinge and yet but one principal cause that bryngeth forth the thinge to passe Let vs seeke oute y ● cause omitting all the meane causes which are driuen forward by the least oryginall cause as in a presse going in at a slraight the formost is driuen by him that is nexte hym the next by him that followes him and the third by some vi olent and stronge thing that dryues him forwarde whych is the first and pryncipall cause of the putting forwarde of the rest afore him If he were kept backe and staied al they that goe afore would stay withal To make this more plain vnto you as in a clocke there be many wheeles yet the first wheele being sturred it dryueth the next and that y ● thyrde c. till the last that moues the instrument that strickes the clocke so in making of an house there is the maister that would haue the house made there is the Carpenter there is the stuffe to make the house with al y ● sluffe neuer stirres till the worke man do set it forward the workeman neuer trauailes but as y ● maister prouoketh him w t good wages and so he is the principall cause of this house making And this cause is of y ● learned called efficient as that y ● bringeth the pryncipal thing to effect Perswade this man to let this building alone and the house shall neuer come to passe yet the house can not bee made without the stuffe and workemen and therefore they be called of some causae sine quibus non and of some other Materiales Formales but all commeth to one purpose It is the efficient cause y ● is the pryncipall cause without remouing of which cause y ● thing that cannot be remedied And because that it was graffed in 〈◊〉 mans iudgement y t the cause of any thing being takē away the 〈◊〉 is taken awa●… with all Therefore men tooke the causes of these thinges that we talke of wythoute iudgement not discerning the principall cause from the meane causes that by taking away of these causes that bee but secondary as it were they were neuer the neare to remedy the thinge they went about much like the wife of Aiax that lost her husband in y ● shippe called Argos wished y ● those Firre beames had neuer bene felled in Peleius wood whereof the sayd shippe was made when that was not the eff●…ent cause of the loosing of her husband but y ● wyld ●…yre cast in the saidshippe which did set it a fyre Such causes as they be be called remote as it were to farre of so they bee also idle and of no operation of them selues without sume other to set them a worke and percase I while I degresse so farre from my matter shalbe thought to go as far from the purpose yet to come to our matter and to apply thys y ● I haue saide to the same Some thinkes this dearthe beginnes by the tenaunt in selling his wares so deare some other by the Lord in reysing his land so high And some by these inclosures And some other by the reysing of our coin or alteration of the same Therefore some by taking some one of these things away as their opinion serued them to be the pryncipall cause of this dearth thought to remedye this dearth But as the tryall of the thing shewed they to●…ched not the cause efficient pryncipall and therefore theyr deuise toke no place and if they had the thinge had bene ●…emedied
great trauayles daungers they haue left to vs to be learned with ease pleasure Cā wee not also throughe the science of Astronomy knowe the course of the Planettes aboue and their coniunctions and Aspectes as certaynely as if wee were amonge them is surely that we may for tell me how came all y ● learned men here to fore to the exacte and perfit knowledge thereof came they not to it by cōferēce marking of circūstāres yes in deade so y t out of their writings we learned it and to the knowledge whereof by sight onely wee could●… neuer attayne though wee were as agile as any Byrde What is there els profitable or necessary for the 〈◊〉 of mans lyfe heere in earth but in learning it is taughte more perfectly and more cōpleat than any man can learne onely by experience all dayes of his lyfe no not so much as your Feate in warre syr Knight no nor your Feate good Husbandmā but that either of them are so exactly taught and set forth in learninge that neither of you both though yee be neuer so perfect in the said feates but might learne many poyncts moe than euer yee saw before by experience in either of them as you sir Knight in Vigetius and you good Husbandman in Columella Knight I say agayne might wee not haue that in our Englysh tongue reade thē ouer though we neuer went to schole Doctor Yea well ynough and yet shoulde yée be farre from the perfect vnderstanding of thē except yee had the help of other sciences that is to say of Arithmatique in disposinge and ordering your men and Geomatry in deuising of Ingens to wynne Townes and Fortrasses and of Brydges to passe ouer in the which Caesar excelled other by reason of the learning that hee had in those sciences and did wonderfull feates which an vnlearned man coulde neuer haue done and if yee had warre ouer the Sea howe coulde ye●… knowe towards what Coastes yee bee sea dryuen without knowledge of the latitude of the plate by the Poole and y ● length by other starres and you good husband for the perfection of the knowledge of husbandry had neede of some knowledge in Astronomy as vnder what aspect of y ● Planets and in the entry of what signe by the Sunne Moons it is time to Care to Doūge to Sowe to reape to Se●… to Graffe to Cut your Wood your Tymber yea to haue some iudgment of the Weather that is lyke to come for Inning of your Corne and Grasse and houseinge of your Cattell yea of some part of Phisick called Veterimaria whereby yee might knowe the dizeases of your Beastes heale thē Then for true measuring of lande had yee not neede of some knowledge in Gcomatry to bee a perfit husband Then for building what Carpenter or Mazon is so cunning or expert but hee might learne more by readinge of Vitriuius and other wryters of Architecture that is to say the scyence of building and to passe ouer y ● sciences of Log●…cke Rethorique whereof y ● first trauayleth about y ● discus●… of the true reason from y ● false the other about y ● perswasion of y ● is to be set forth to the people as a thinge to them profitable and expedient where of a good and perfit counsaylor might want neither well tell me what ●…sayle can be perfit what common weale can be well ordered vprighte where none of the Rulers or Counsaylors haue studied any Philosophy specially the parte that teacheth of manners the other parte of philosophy I passe ouer now which teacheth of natures and is called phisick what parte of the common weale is neglected by philosophy morall doth it not teach first how euery man should gouerne himselfe honestly Secondly how he should guide his family wisely and profitably And thirdly it sheweth how a City or a Realme or any other cōmonweale should bee well ordered and gouerned both in time of peace and also warre What commonweale can be without either a Gouerner or Counsaylors that should bee expert in thys kinde of learning this confirmeth the poynt that we now talke of if men expert in this Science were consulted and followed the common weale shoulde bee ordered as fewae should haue cause to complaine therefore sayd Plato that diuine Philosopher that happy is that Commonweale where either y ● Prince is a Philosopher or where a Philosopher is the Prince Knight I had weened before that there had bene no other learninge in the world but that these mē had that be Doctors of Diuinity or of the Lawe or of Phisicke whereof the first had all his cūning in Preaching the second in maters of y ● spirituall lawe and the third in phisicke and in loking of dizeased mens water mary yee tell me now of many other sciences very necessary for euery cōmon weale which I neuer heard of before but either there be fewe of these Doctors that can skill of them or els they disclose but litle of their cunning Doctor Of truth there be to fewe of them that can skill of these sciences now a dayes of those there be too fewe of them that are esteemed any thing the more for their knowledge therein or called for to any coūsell And therefore other seeing these Sciences nothing esteemed or set by they fall to those sciences that they see in some pryce as to Diuinity to the Lawe and to Phisicke though they cannot bee perfit in none of these without the knowledge of the sciences aboue touched and therefore it is ordayned by Uniuersities that first men should bee Bachelers and Maisters of Artes ere they should come to Diuinity and these Artes be the seuen liberall sciences as Grammer Logicke Rethoricke Arithmatique Geomatry Musicke and Astronomy and now they skip ouer them and fall to Diuinity by and by before they haue gotten or purchased them any iudgment through thefore sayd sciences which maketh thē to fall to these dyuersities of Opinions that yee speake of for all beginners in euery science be very quicke and ouer hasty in geuing their iudgment of thinges as experience teacheth euery mā thē whē they haue once vttered their iudgmēts opinions they will see nothing y ● will ●…ounde contrary to y ● same but eyther they will construe it to their own phātaste or vtterly deny it to be of any authority Pythagoras to his Scholers y ● came to learne his Prophane sciences commaunded silence for seuen yeares that by all y ● space they should be hearers onely and no reasoners and in this Diuine science euery Boye that hath not red scripture past halfe a yeare shalbe suffered not onely to reason and enquire of things for that were tollerable but to affirme newe and straunge interpretacio●…s vpon the same neuer heard of before What ende of Opinions can there bee while this is suffered Also Plato forbad any man to come to his schoole