Hornes and Trompettes should haue stooncke of your breath But it is wel that he hath a Good name and is no Pope Item there Iewel VVhereas also Pope Boniface the eight for that he could not haue the treasorie of Fraunce at his commaundement endeuoured vvith al his both ecclesiastical and vvorldely puissance to remoue Philip the Frenche king from his estate and vnder his Bulles or letters Patentes had conueighed the same solemnely vnto Albertus the king of Romaines M. Harding here telleth your Maiestie that al this vvas vvel done to the intent thereby to fray the King and to keepe him iâ—â—vvâ— and to reclaime his minde from Dissobedience Confut. fol. 1â—2 b. Harding Neither was this the cause of Pope Bonifacius his falling out with the Frenche king that you assigne nor applied he al his both Ecclesiastical and temporal power to depriue the King of his Crowne nor euer said I that al this was very wel done as you report With so many Vntruthes you abuse the pacience of her Highnesse Let my wordes be weighed as I vttered them my selfe and then may it be iudged whether I answere to the sclaunderous obiection of the Apologie reasonably or you out face the matter with lying falsly These be my wordes Confut. fol. 182. a. The causes of the strife betvvene Philippus Pulcher and Pope Bonifacius Concerning that ye say of king Philip surnamed Le Bel if we may beleeue Paulus AEmylius the best writer of the Frenche Chronicles the cause was such betwene Pope Bonifacius and that King that if he did not only excommunicate him but also offered gifte of his Kingdome to Albert the Emperour as Platina your Author herein writeth he may seeme therein to haue done not altogether so euil as ye pretende For as bothe AEmylius and Platina do witnesse the cause of their falling out was that whereas the Pope being first sued vnto by Cassanus Cassanus a Christian Prince and a great Conquerour in the East to ioyne with him for the recouerie of the holy land sent the Bishop of Apamea to the Frenche King for his necessarie aide in that so common a quarel of al Christendome he being offended either that the sute was not first made to him either for that the said Bishop had done his Ambassade with shewe of more auctoritie then the King thought it became him or vpon some other priuate grudge did not only vtterly refuse to sende any helpe toward the voyage but also contemptuously beside common order and cruelly committed the Popes legate to prison and there kept him vntil such time as through the Popes Interdict the King was compelled to set him at libertie Now of geuing awaie his kingdome this chiefe French Historiographer maketh no mention And if the Pope so did why may he not seeme to haue done it rather to feare him and to reclaime his mind from disobedience Verely Platina writing it declareth how before the Pope proceded to that extremitie the French King did what in him laye to withdrawe the people of Fraunce from the obedience of the Churche and See Apostolike Al these thinges with eueÌ„ iudgement weighed that Pope seemeth not so much worthy of the blame which by your maligne reporte ye charge him with specially the occasion being first geuen of the Kinges vnlawful demeanour But what so euer may be iudged hereof yea though the Pope therein be without al excuse what is that to you How serueth it you to any colour of excuse of your Schisme and cutting of your selues from the rest of Christendome Christes mystical bodie Thus there And whereas M. Iewel maketh so much adoo about that whiche in deed I said not but whiche he vntruly beareth the Reader in hand I say that is that yf the Pope gaue away the kingdome of France from the Prince he did it to thintent to fray him whereat he ieasteth in the Defence saying A prety deuise to fraie a king to pulle the Crowne Emperial from his head to this I answere I spake it not absolutely but asked why if the Pope so did the case being wel weighed he might not seeme rather to haue done it to fraie him and to reclaime his minde from disobedience as by the euent it was shewed that so he did For the Frenche King returning to obedience and being reconciled kepte stil the crowne notwithstanding that gifte And when so euer any Prince at other times reuoked his euil purpose and confourmed him selfe to right such giftes of titles were also eftsones by the Popes reuoked In deede certaine Popes vsed that practise as a meane only to withdrawe Princes from wicked attemptes and most coÌ„monly the same tooke good effecte I denie not but some times by such practise Princes were remoued from their estate and other enioyed their roumes but the same were such as perseuered incorrigible Item there Iewel Novv touching your Maiesties noble Progenitours the kinges of this realme vvhere as vve as our loialtie and allegiance bindeth vs iustly coÌ„plaine that Pope Alexander 3. by violence and tyrannie forced king HeÌ„rie the second to surrender his crovvne Emperial into the handes of his Legate and aftervvard for a certaine space to contente him selfe in priuate estate to the great indignatioÌ„ and griefe of his louing Subiectes And that likevvise Pope Innocentius the third sturred vp the Nobles and Commons of this realm against King Iohn and gaue the inheritance and possession of his dominions vnto Ludouicus the French king as for the misusing of your Maiesties most deere Father of most noble memorie king HeÌ„rie the eight for asmuch as the smarte thereof is in fresh remembrance I vvil say nothing to these and al other like tyrannical iniuries and iuste causes of griefe M. Harding shortely and in light manner thinketh it sufficient to ansvver thus vvhat though King Henrie the second vvere il entreated of Pope Alexander 3. vvhat though king Iohn vvere il entreated of that zelous and learned Pope Innocentius Tertius VVhat though King Henrie the eight vvere likevvise entreated of the Popes in our tiâ—es Confut. fol. 340. a. Harding Many and sundry false partes practized by M. Ievvel at once Here al thinges are laid forth with Rhetorical amplifications to the most aduantage withal many vntrue partes be practized The Popes are falsely belyed The wicked deedes of the Kinges are craftily conceeled My wordes are impudently falsified My whole purpose and meaning is misconstrued The ende for which I spake thereof drawen therevnto by special occasion ministred by the Apologie which was chiefely to be treated of is not so much as with one word touched My tale is cut of in the middes and may not be suffred to be tolde out to the end Now bicause there is no dealing with M. Iewel but the bookes whence euery thing is alleged being laid open and euery place that is handled turned vnto for there was neuer Iuggler that begyled mennes eyes more with legierdemaine then he begileth mennes mindes with his false sleightes if his
the despiser and prophaner of the holy Sacramentes the breaker of vnitie the enemie of God And for my warrant in so doing I haue the examples whiche here I laid forth before of the Prophetes of the Apostles specially of S. Paule S. Iude and S. Peter of S. Iohn the Baptiste of our Sauiour Christe him selfe Yea I say furthermore what is that sharpenes of wordes whiche in this case I meane when the auctoritie of the Councels and holy Fathers is so lightly contemned when Gods holy Mysteries are so turkishly prophaned when the Churche is so falsly sclaundered when vnitie is so with most certaine danger of Christian soules broken when the whole state of the Catholique Religion is so wickedly ouerthrowen briefly when God him selfe is so horribly blasphemed In this case I say what sharpenes of wordes is there which iuste griefe of a Christian harte and godly zeale causeth not to seeme not onely excusable but also laudable yea necessary yea with praise and reward to be honoured If when the Children of Israel defyled them selues in Fornication with the wemen of Moab God in anger said to Moyses take al the chiefe of the people Num. 25. and hang them vp in Gibettes against the Sunne that my wrath may be turned from Israel where there is so muche bothe bodily and spiritual fornication yea sacrilegious Incest not only coÌ„mitted but permitted but taught but couÌ„seled and exhorted and for some parte commaunded against the honour and wil of God our Moyseses and Aarons the true Gouernours withholden from executing their dewtie shal it not become vs whose hartes God toucheth at least with wordes to shewe the griefe of our mindes and with conuenient sharpenes of speache to rebuke the heinous wickednes that is committed and so for so muche as in vs lyeth to reuoke Gods people from it If Phinees being nor high Priest nor magistrate but only as yet a priuate man Ibidem was highly praised and rewarded of God for his zeale in killing one of the Israelites for whooredom committed with an harlot of Madian to stay Gods wrath shal we seme to deserue blame for vttering onely wordes in reproufe of so farre more heinous crimes if not to stay God from his iuste wrath nor the offenders from their wickednes yet the people of God from the like example What you are very nice M Iewel that finde so great faulte with me onely for certaine sharpe wordes bestowed in reprehension of your and your companions so diuers and so greeuous enormities You are not taken vp for halting as they say pardy Halting may haue some excuse of humaine infirmitie This that is reprehended in you is not only halting it is falling downe right Neither are you so muche to be rebuked for your owne wilful falling downe but muche more for that you studie and labour al that you can to pul al others downe into the pitte that your selfe are fallen into Now in this case the pitte being so dangerous is it not wel and dewtifully done to geue warning to Gods people to beware of it Al that I writte is for the peoples sake For with you and such as you are I haue litle hope to doo any good Suche ones the Apostle aduertiseth vs Tit. 1. not to deale withal Now how shal the people be dewly warned to beware whose senses be more liuely in worldly then in spiritual thinges excepte the dulnes of their minde be stirred vp with the feare of great peril And how can the greatnes of this peril be signified vnto them but with wordes of some vehemencie As for example If I should say to one that goeth forth by night sir the way you shal passe through is vneeuen by reason of litle holes and furrowes And you take not heede you may happen to stumble or perhappes to wrentche your foote Vpon this warning wil he be so careful how to go as if I say thus If you loue your life beware how you go that way for there be great pittes and dungeons that you shal hardly escape and if you fal you are sure to breake your necke The case is like in this behalfe M. Iewel The people be alwaies going foreward and for lacke of knowledge they passe forth as it were by night Now so farre as we are persuaded the way they go in at this day in England to be perilous as that whiche through Schismes and Heresies and other manifold wickednes thereof ensewing leadeth them to euerlasting damnation should we not deceiue them if we tolde them that Dungeons were but furrowes that deepe pittes were but stumbling holes and that there were no great Danger in the way For this cause therefore M. Iewel that the people of God might be the more a fraid to heare you and beleeue you and to folow your damnable waies I thought it good and expedient in writing against you and against the heresies of our time to vse shâ—rpâ—r wordes and speache of more vehemencie then otherwise I would haue done if I had written to you priuatly or so as knowing that my bookes should haue come to no mannes handes but to yours I knew you would wince and kicke at it But spare not litle care I therefore so that by my labour profite redounde to Christian People For what cause in writing my Confutation of the Apologie I vsed suche verdure of stile as might seme not ouer flatte but tempred with conuenient sharpenesse BEfore I began to set my penne to the paper I considered wel with my selfe what it was to stirre vp such Hurnettes and to prouoke such Waspes to anger Touched I them once were it neuer so gentilly I knew they would straight way flee at my face and buzze about me and that possibly I should not saue my selfe from their stinging Yet hauing a good harte and being right willing for the Truthes sake and for the Defence of Christes Churche to sustaine that Smarte what so euer it should be I tooke aduise with my selfe how to tempre my stile so as bothe Gods cause might seeme sufficiently defended and they not iustly offended Three vvaies of vvriting against an Aduersarie Whereas then there be three wayes of writing against such Aduersaries of the Churche vsed diuersly of the Fathers vpon diuers occasions of time place person and matter of which the one is colde softe meeke lowly and demure an other hote rough sterne and vehement the third tempred with a conuenient mediocritie betwen both though at the firste in my Answer to the Chalenge I inclined more vnto the softe and gentle waye afterward in my Confutation of the Apologie and in my Reioindre I chose the meane that by the one extreme I might not seeme to worke vpon choler and to seeke reuenge rather then Defence of Gods cause by the other to be too abiecte and to shew lesse confidence in our cause to thincouragement of such cockish Aduersaries Now commeth me M. Iewel and medling litle with the matter it selfe and
the very chiefe pointes in controuersie whereby he geueth out a secret confession of the weakenes of his side he inueieth at my person and with al his Rhetorique doth what he can to bring me in discredite with the Reader for my sharpenes and vehemencie of speache And faine would he al men to beleue that I lacke Discretion that Choler ruleth my penne that I vse wordes of more heate and bitternes then it becommeth either my vocation or the cause By this he seemeth to discharge me of what so euer is reprehensible in that other extreme Wherewith I am content For I had rather his quarel should be extended to the reproufe of my person then to the preiudice of the cause And doubtelesse if I had enclined to the other extreme way of writing he would not haue failed but haue turned al to argument of weakenes of our side In deede naturally by wordes and gesture we shew courage when our matter is good and of colde manner of handling there groweth a suspition that the matter is naught Had I therefore alwayes written coldly and softely I had ministred vnto M. Iewel a ioily occasion to insulte vpon me as though our cause had ben the weaker And so he would haue taken that aduantage against me which Cicero Cicero in Brutâ— M. Callidius as he writeth of him selfe once tooke against Marcus Callidius This M. Callidius as he witnesseth of him was an excellent man and was endewed with al singular graces apperteining to a perfit Orator saue that he was not vehement nor applied him selfe to stirre and moue the mindes of them that heard him Cicero and he were once matched together in a cause Callidius accused one Quintus Gallius laying to his charge before the Iudges that he had prepared poison wherewith to haue destroied him For proufe of it he declared that he tooke him in the manner and that he had in readines against him handwritinges witnesses signes examinations and shewed the matter to be manifest and disputed of the crime very exquisitely but yet soberly and coldly When Cicero came to make Defence in the behalfe of Gallius among other thinges that he treated like a cunning Orator at length he goeth from the crime obiected and from the matter it selfe to the manner of Callidius action and made the softnes of his demeanour and coldnes of his vtterance an argument of the others innocencie And there he beareth Callidius in hand that al was but a feined matter For saith he to him wouldst thou Callidius Cicero in Brute haue handled this case in such wise except thou hadst feined Vbi dolor Vbi ardor animi c. Where shewedst thou any griefe Where any heate of the minde Nulla perturbatio animi nulla corporis frons non percussa non femur pedis quod minimum est nulla supplâ—sio In al thy handling of the matter thou shewedst thy selfe to feele no trouble of minde nor of body Thou smotest not thy selfe on the forehed thou gauest not thy selfe a clappe on the thighe thou didst not so much which is the least of al as once stampe with thy foote Thus concluded Cicero against Callidius And thus doubtelesse would M. Iewel haue concluded against me if I had written my answer my Confutation and my Reioindre in such kinde of stile as the contrary whereof he besturreth him selfe so much to disproue in me Yea he would haue borne the worlde in hande which neuerthelesse sometimes he doth in effect gathering argument of the softe and colde manner of my writing that I had but feined to please men and had benne persuaded otherwise in my harte How so euer I had written he was determined to reprehende me In very deede had I thought that he would not haue abused my softenes to shew of the more confidence in his cause and that the same should not haue brought any preiudice to our cause I would haue forborne al roughnes and sharpenes and would more gladly haue folowed the temperate and quiet vaine of myne owne nature Howbeit what he was like to finde at my hande I gaue him warning at the first where I said that In the preface to M. Ievvel before my Ansvver if perhappes I should sometimes seeme to scarre or lawnce a festered bunche that deserued to be cut of I would him to remember how the meekest and the holiest of the auncient Fathers in reprouing heretiques oftetimes haue shewed them selues Zelous earnest eager sharpe and bitter Now to ende this matter wherein I confesse I haue dwelte longer then I intended when I began I pray thee gentle Reader if feare of Excommunication staie thee not from reading heretical Bookes for some parte of my discharge and that M. Iewels falsehode in this thing also as in al other that he taketh in hand may appeare to vew his booke of the Defence and myne of the Confutatioâ— To make the case moâ—e odious on my side and to bearâ— thee in handâ— that I 〈◊〉 vsed sharpenes in writing contrarie to myne owne promise behold how fowly he hath falsified my wordes Thus falsly he layeth the matter forth Iewel M. Ievvel falsifieth this place by cuttiÌ„g avvaie and by changing vvordes M. Harding in the Preface before his Confutation of the Apologie then thus he maketh me to speake The manner of vvriting vvhich I haue here vsed in comparison of our Aduersaries is sober and gentle c. And in respecte of their heate bitternesse and railing as many tel me ouer colde svveete and milde Harding Here good Reader with his c he cutteth of my wordes that doo fully answer his obiection and quite altereth the sense of the place by changing But into And and by leauing out my whole tale that there folowed whereby any reasonable man might be satisfied Thus al his reproufes of me and al his other obiections against the catholike doctrine wil be found false if euery mannes sayinges be onely vewed and so to any indifferent man they shal seeme sufficiently confuted by conference of the bookes onely If his continual falsifyinges be not espied and tried out maruel it is not if the Reader conceiue sinister opinion of me Let al be tried by the bookes not by his false reportes and I doubt not of the iudgement of al that be indifferent in their iudgementes As for those that be parcial and wilfully addicted to their owne likinges I make lesse accompte of them then I haue pitie of them My whole saying then truly reported is this The manner of writing which I haue here vsed in comparison of our aduersaries is sober softe and gentle yet vehementer rougher and sharper then for my woont and nature but in respect of their heate bitternes and railing as many tel me ouer colde swete and milde How so euer it shal seme to thee Reader herein I haue done as I thought best Wel I am assured I haue not gone farre from the steppes of the most praised auncient Fathers of whom who haue
A DETECTION OF SVNDRIE FOVLE ERROVRS LIES SCLAVNDERS CORRVPTIONS AND OTHER false dealinges touching Doctrine and other matters vttered and practized by M. Iewel in a Booke lately by him set foorth entituled A Defence of the Apologie c. By Thomas Harding Doctor of Diuinitie Psalm 4. Filij hominum vsquequo graui corde vt quid diligitis vanitatem quaeritis Mendacium O ye sonnes of menne how long wil ye be dul harted what meane ye thus to be in loue with Vanitie and to seeke after Lying RESPICITE VOLATILIA COELI ET PVLLOS CORVORVM IF LOVANII Apud Ioannem Foulerum Anno 1568. CVM PRIVILEGIO REgiae Maiestatis Priuilegio concessum est Thomaâ— Hardingo Sacra Theologia Professori vt Librum inscriptum A Detection of sundrie foule errours lies sclaunders c. per Typographum aliquem Iuratum imprimere ac impunè distrahere liceat Datum Bruxellis 24. Maij. Anno 1568. Subsig Vander A A. The Preface to the Reader AT the first comming of this Treatie to mens handes what saith one so smal a Booke for answer to so great a Volume Shal this Detection conteining litle aboue one hundred streetes of Paper matche the Defence that is almost foure hundred sheetes What meaneth D. Harding Is he not hable to confute M. Iewel Or is he loth to take paines To this I answer How hable I am to confute what so euer M. Iewel hath written not onely in his late pretensed Defence but also in his Replie or in the Apologie whereof at leaste he is thought to haue benne the penneman let it be iudged by the learned this wil I boldly saie if he haue no better meane to make his partie good then hitherto he hath vsed write he what him liste it shal be no great praise to any man to haue confuted him As it had benne smal glorie for valiant Achilles to haue beaten Thersites whom Homere describeth ready of his tongue and a coward of his handes so among the skilful Diuines he may not looke to winne great coÌ„mendation of learning who confuteth M. Iewelles writinges For certainely good Reader if thou haue but a meane insight in these Controuersies nowe so much disputed of betwixte the Protestantes and vs and wilt bestowe some good labour about the exacte trial of the thinges he hath written thou shalt easily espie the feeblenesse of his side Thou shalt finde that he perfourmeth more in shewe then in acte that commonly he maketh vp in Tale where he lacketh of Weight that with multitude of wordes he couerâ—th thâ— pâ—nurâ—â— of Râ—â—â—â—â— that with huge numbers of Doctours sainges he setteth foorth the barrennesse of substantial Prouâ—â—â— aâ— mâ—ny do their thinne Hippes with stufte Hosen and their solender Armes with bombast Sleeues This being so whereas the dewe discussion of these pointes in controuersie descendeth vnto the bottom of thinges and swimmeth not aboue vpon the fome of wordes euery man can soone conceiue howe meane learning may suffice to confute such a Writer If therefore I make profession of sufficient habilitie in this case there is no cause why I should be reprehended as one that attributeth more vnto him selfe then male seeme to stand with modestie This muche being said for proufe of habilitie some perhappes would beare what I haue to saie for my selfe that I am not lothe to take paines For he that is hable to doo a good and profitable worke and refuseth the labour to doo it seemeth to be gilty of slâ—wth True it is to refel al that M. Iewel hath written or rather gathered together out of others for in deedâ— he doth nothing els in manner but laie together heâ—pes of other mennes sayinges against the Catholique Churche and against the Catholique Religion it were greate paine By iudgement bothe of Cicero and Quintilian the labour of writing is accompted very greate And the Scripture saith Eccles 12. Faciendi plures libros nullus est finis frequénsque meditatio carnis afflictio est There is no ende of making moe Bookes and the often breaking of a mannes braines about suche studie is a greate pounishment to the bodie If any doubte hereof let him set him selfe a worke earnestly about writing in suche sorte as I speake of and he shal saie as I doo I doubte not And therefore it behoueth them that geue them selues to writing to haue not onely health but also good strength of bodie Al this M. Iewel knewe right wel And for that very cause when he sawe that smal bookes would fone be answered as it appeared by my Answer made to his Chalenge and by my Confutation of the Apologie he thought it better policie or it was so put in his head by the aduise of his brethren to goe an other waie to worke that is to saie to replie vpon me and to make his Defence with huge Volumes that either a long time should passe before an answere could be returned hoping that in the meane while his Gospel should take too deepe a roote afterward to be pluckt vp out of the Readers haâ—tâ—s by any what so euer booke that should come to their handes or that I should be wearied and worne out with the labour of answering and perhappes die before I came to the ende or that the very hugenesse of the bookes should fraie me from the enterprise of making aâ—swer In this case it seemed to mee best neither by taking vpon me to answere the whole Bookes and euery parcel of them to geue our Aduersaries the aduantage of the time not to shorten my life by immoderate paines emploied to no great profite nor by my silence and by open geuing ouer the whole as it were by fleeing out of the fielde to leaue them vnto their Triumphe but by answering the pointes of greatest importance to set forth a sufficient Defence of the truth for staying of the doubteful to confirme them in the true doctrine and thereby to geue out a cleere euidence what truthe is to be looked for in the reste of his superfluous stuffe sith he hath shewed him selfe so vntrue a dealer in the chiefe matters Thus haue I doâ—ne not yeelding to slewth but moued with good aduise noâ— as being loth to take paines and to susteine a long trauaile but as one who the state of the present time considered and the vncertaintie of thinges to come mistrusted thought it better to doo some good out of hande though it were of losse labour then by long differring whiles a larger Volume were intended to suffer to the losse of many soules so muche false doctrine to grow in credite As touching the Replie what hath benne donne to those that reade our bookes it is not vnknowen What so euer he had to bring against the Râ—â—â—â—resâ—nce against the Sacrifice of the Bodie and bloude of Christâ— against the Masse whereat the Priest receiueth the Communion without other companie receiuing sacramentally with him in the same place against the Churche Sâ—â—â—ice in a learned tongue against the anciâ—â—◠〈◊〉 of
certaine mo the like be those which I haue let passe as being partely vnnecessarie and vnprofitable partely vnmeete good houres to be bestowed about them By the handeling of these the weightier pointes it wil sufficiently appeare to al menne with what stuffe he filleth his great Bookes what smal credite he deserueth how litle pith there is to be found in his multitude of wordes how litle there is that serueth aptly to the purpose among the great heapes of testimonies that he laieth together Surely his Defence being wel examined by any man that hath skil and can iudge of these points it must needes be thought that when he saw he had not the plaine truth of his side yet with multitude of allegations he would make a shew of learning to the ignorant and trouble the answerer with confusion Euen so many Barbarous Princes as we reade in stories when they lacked a conuenient number of good and tried Souldiers haue gonne about to fraie their enemies with multitude of people who haue learned by their great ouerthrowes that oftentimes victorie is not obteined by multitude of menne In deede the Truth needeth not so many sayinges piked out of Schoolemenne of Summistes of Gloses vpon Gratian and other partes of the Canon Lawe and out of so many Canonistes of al sortes For trial of a mater to be prooued true in questions touching our beleefe one saying of the Scripture is sufficient if the expresse Scripture faile vs twoo or three Testimonies of the Ancient Fathers not being contrarie to the reste maie suffice But suche a confuse and vnorderly number of sayinges specially of suche as be not of great estimation as this man commonly allegeth of the same not one making cleerely for this purpose in moste matters what doth it els but breede a suspicion among the wise that the matter is not true for proufe whereof they be alleged But by this meane he thought to winne credit at least with the people For the people that can not iudge of these matters thinketh him best learned that hath most woordes It is knowen that when they beholde two reasoning together of any thing whereof they haue no skil commonly they commend the mainteiner of the worse cause in case he be fuller of wordes be they neuer so litle to the purpose and say in his praise that he answered the other partie to euery Quare M. Iewel vnderstanding this and making his most accompte of the people and of them that be vnlearned to whom he leaneth and by multitude of whom he and they of his side mind to stand for touching the learned they see they can winne none bestoweth great paines and charges to set out great bookes that at least in the opinion of the vnlearned and of them that haue not leisure to examine the points how substantially they are treated he maie seeme to haue done iolily and to haue acquited him selfe like a great Clerke In very deede if a man haue care howe muche he maie saie rather then how truly and feare not to vtter vntruthes he hath this aduantage ouer his aduersarie defending the truth with a conscience not to swarue from the censure of the Church that he may alwaies finde abundance of matter to vtter For as it hath of olde ben said Mendacium est multiplex veritas simplex Lying is manifolde Truth is simple Lying hath many plaites and foldinges Truth is without plaite or wrinckle Therefore it is no marueile if the Treaties of the one be narrowe and shorte of the other wide and long As for me if I prooue M. Iewel an vntrue man in so many pointes as I haue treated of I haue donne that whereby his credite must be broken His credite being broken what remaineth but that in this kinde of trade he go for a Banckroute If he be a Banckrout worthily is he to be begiled that trusteth him Some wil say perhaps it is not likely I should with so smal a booke discredit him that hath written so much But it maie please this man to remember that to saie the truth it is not M. Iewel that hath written muche He hath taken muche out of other mens bookes of his owne he hath in maÌ„ner nothing certainely very litle So that peruse his Booke who wil he shal finde that he is but a seely Translatour of other mens wordes a heaper together of al Writers sayings and that most commonly to more ostentation of tale then to the making vp of good weight So that if thinges be brought to an exact trial he shal be found no disputer no reasoner no discourser no Writer but only a gatherer together of other mennes Sentences How be it it is not the hugenesse of a booke that argueth the sufficiencie of proufes Truth is content to be set foorth with few wordes Neither yet doo I reproue him for that he allegeth what he findeth in other Writers For therby we bring credite to doubteful matters But for that alleging so much he allegeth so litle to the purpose yea in manner nothing and boldly wil I auouche it vtterly nothing for due proufe of any his new and strange doctrines being contrarie to that of ancient time hath benne beleeued in the Catholique Churche This shal seeme more probable if it be confirmed by some plaine and true examples Lette vs then examine M. Iewelles common demeanour in an example or twoo To discusse many the breuitie of a Preface wil not permitte O that he were in place to choose the example him selfe out of his whole Booke to his best aduantage that so it might euidently appeare with what weake tooles he fighteth against the truth ExaÌ„ples vvhereby it is shewed hovve vvith void and impertineÌ„t stuffe M. Ievvel filleth his great Booke Defence Pag. 163. Heb. 13. Confut. 73 b. Marke hovv M. Ievv alvvaies keepeth him selfe from coÌ„ming vnto the point in controuersie Whereas in the Apologie much is said in the commeÌ„dation of Matrimonie which no Catholique man euer discommended as that it is Holy and honorable in al sortes and states of personnes in the Apostles in the Ministers of the Church and in Bisshops and that it is an honest and lawful thing as S. Chrysostom saith for a man liuing in Matrimonie to take vpon him therewith the dignitie of a Bisshop to this I saie in my Confutation that albeit Matrimonie be holy and honorable in al and an vndefiled â—eâ— as S. Paule saith yet that it is not lawful for such personnes to marrie who haue deliberately vowed Chastitie or haue taken holy Orders This there I prooue by good and sufficient authoritie as it maie be seene in my said Confutation Now what is M. Iewels part here to proue for maintenaÌ„ce of his doctrine but that a man notwithstaÌ„ding his Vow or receiuing of holy Orders maie lawfully marrie This is the very point of the controuersie and thereto onely should he haue directed his talke If he go about any thing els it is beside the purpose But consider
others whiche he thought best to conceele and dissemble One thing good Reader it behoueth thee much to be warned of in case thou desire to stande an vpright vmpeere betwen M. Iewel and me Vpon what places so euer thou shalt happen to light in which he shal seeme to haue any good aduantage against me or against the Doctrine of the Catholique Churche passe not them ouer lightly weigh wel both our groundes examine both our allegations truste not to ought that is laid forth by either of vs presently but resort to the Bookes whence euery thing is taken Doing so thou shalt most certainely perceiue whether of vs both vseth more truth Doubtlesse in such places thou shalt seldō it were much so saie neuer find him to allege the wordes whereby he pretēdeth any colour of aduantage without some false sleight or other If thou desire to vnderstand this by some examples consider I praie thee what great a doo he maketh about the name of Vniuersal Bishop Vniuersal Bishop As he handleth that matter if a man wil beleeue him al thinges seeme to be plaine on his side Defence 120. The Coūcel of Carthage saith he decreed by expresse wordes that the Bishop of Rome should not be called the Vniuersal Bishop And behold Reader the confidēce that he hath in this cause which he sheweth with these wordes speaking vnto me This you saie is forged and falsified and is no part of that Conucel For indifferēt trial both of the truth ād of the falshed herein I besech you behold the very wordes of the Councel euen as they are alleged by your owne Doctour Gratian. These they are Prima Sedi◠Episcopus c. Let not the Bishoppe of any of the first Sees be called the Prince of Priestes Dist 99. Primae or the highest Priest or by any like name but onely the Bishoppe of the first See But let not the Bishoppe of Rome him selfe be called the Vniuersal Bishoppe c. Now M. Harding compare our wordes and the Councelles wordes together We saie none otherwise but as the Councel saith The Bishop of Rome him selfe ought not to be called the vniuersal Bishop Herein we doo neither adde nor minis he but reporte the wordes plainely as we finde them If you had lookte better on your booke and would haue tried this matter as you saie by your learning ye might wel haue reserued these vnciuile reproches of falshed to your selfe and haue spared your crying of shame vpō this Defender Here is muche a doo as thou feest Reader and al standeth vpon falshed as I said at the first in my Confutation We striue not for the name of Vniuersal Bishop neither hath the Pope Challenged that title Yet these menne haue neuer donne with Vniuersal Bishop The whole matter is soone answered These wordes vniuersalis autem nec etiam Romanus Pontifex appelletur Concil Carthag 3 Cap. 26. The Bishop of Rome ought not to be called the vniuersal Bishop these wordes I saie be not the wordes of the thirde Councel of Carthage nor in the Greeke nor in the Latine but the wordes of Gratian and they stande for the Summe of that parte of the distinction whiche there foloweth And thereof M. Iewel was not ignorant as it appeareth by his owne wordes in the same place Howbeit were it true that Gratian had ignorantly added them to the Councel as wordes of the Coūcel what learned man trusteth Gratian a man not greatly trusted in respect of sundrie his allegations when it is easy to see the Original For this I referre the Reader to the 39. Chapter of the third Booke of this Treatie fol. 184. b. Perusing that I haue answered to this point there thou shalt fully vnderstand how falsly M. Iewel hath dealte therein and how litle cause he had so to triumphe For neither hath the Councel any suche woordes at al nor speaketh it there so much as one worde of the Bishop of Rome nor hath Gratian put those wordes as a testimonie of the Councel but as the Summe of that parte of the 99. Distinction which immediatly foloweth As wel might M. Iewel haue said that those other wordes there placed vnde Pelagius secundus omnibus Episcopis had ben the wordes of that Councel He that knoweth Gratians manner of writing can not but either laugh at M. Iewelles ignorance or maruaile at his impudencie To proue that it is lawful for a man to marrie a wife being in holy Orders The example of Eupsychius he allegeth the example of one Eupsychius who was a Laie Gentleman of Caesaria the chiefe Citie in Cappadocia and in a time of persecution suffred Martyrdom soone after that he had benne married Now most falsly he corrupteth the reporter of the Storie and maketh this Eupsychius a Bishop that it might appeare to the ignorant that one had married a wife after he had benne made a Bishop which would haue serued our married Superintendentes purpose gaily For yet after so many yeres searche they can not bring vs forth so much as one cleare example of the ancient Churche that euer there was any Bishop or Priest married after that degree and holy Order taken With such vncleane conueiance their vncleane treacherie is defended Defence 176. Cassio li. 6. cap. 14. His wordes be these Cassiodorus writeth thus In illo tempore ferunt Martyrio vitam finisse Eupsychium Caesariensem Episcopum ducta nuper vxore dum adhuc quasi sponsus esse videretur At that time they saie Eupsychius the Bishoppe of Caesaria died in Martyrdome hauing married a wife a litle before being yet in manner a newe married man Beholde Reader the falshod of this man First contrarie to his custome elswhere he leaueth the Greeke fonteine where this Storie was First written and goeth to the riuer of the olde translation in many places not most exactly answering the Greeke And why did he so Forsooth bicause if he had alleged Sozomenus the Greeke writer his falshod had benne fowly bewraied For he nameth this Eupsychius expressely Eupsychius a laie-man by M. Iewels forgerie made a Bishop to proue the Mariages of Priestes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as much to saie Eupsychius one of the Lordes or one of the Nobilitie of the Citie of Caesaria in Cappadocia Then bicause the Tripartite Storie of Cassiodorus setting foorth hath not so expressely that he was a nobleman of Caesaria M. Iewel was so bolde as to falsifie the place and to putte in of his owne this woorde Episcopum to helpe his matter and so corrupting his authour maketh him to cal him Eupsychium Caesariensem Episcopum Eupsychius the Bishoppe of Caesaria Thus he taketh vpon him to make him a Bishoppe who was a Laie man as wel a Bishoppe as he him selfe is that it might appeare to the vnlearned that a Bisshoppe married a wife after he was Bisshoppe Fol. 302. 318. See what I haue said hereto in this Treatie where I answer his false stuffe touching
Vicare of Christe aboue Lordes and kinges of this worlde and to see Princes and Emperours promise and sweare obedience vnto him Confut. fol. 178. b Harding That all Kinges and Emperours receiue their whole power at the Popes hande I neuer said it ne wrote it nor that they ought to sweare obedience and Fealtie vnto him These wordes are not to be founde neither in the places whiche you haue coted nor in the whole Confutation els where What and how great obedience Christian Princes owe vnto the Churche and vnto Christes Vicare the chiefe Gouernour of the same this is no place at large to discusse The wordes that you allege I acknowledge to be myne If that whiche there foloweth be ioyned withal the whole circumstance of my discourse declaring what is my meaning considered nothing shal seeme said beside truthe or reason After the wordes before rehersed immediatly thus it foloweth But they Confut 178. b. It is no absurditie the shepherd to be in auctoritie ouer the vvhole flocke Distinct 96. C. duâ— sunt that are the faithful subiectes of the Church of God thinke it no absurditie that the shepherd be set not only aboue the Lambes and Ewes of the Churche but also aboue the Wethers and Rammes them selues It is a very great folie for them to finde faulte with the Superioritie of the Bishop of Rome who can neuer proue that he is not the Vicare of Christe If he were not his Vicare yet being a Bishop he is aboue any temporal Prince concerning his priestly office Lo M. Iewel by these and other my wordes in that place you might haue seene had you not bent your witte maliciously to stirre her Maiestie to hatred against vs what are the thinges and causes in whiche I reporte the Princes and highest estates of the world to stoupe vnto Christes Vicare and to promise him obedience As for Homage and Fealtie suche as Vassalles rendre vnto their temporal Princes in regard of temporal Dominion whereof by sownd of your speache you seeme to meane I spake not one word Is this the charitie of your Gospel M. Iewel by such vntrue meanes to incense the Prince against vs Item there Iewel VVhereas Pope Zacharias by the consent or the conspiracie of the Nobles of France deposed Chilpericus the true natural and liege Prince of that Realme and placed Pipinus in his roume Lo saith M. Harding ye must needes Confesse that this was a diuine power in the Pope for otherwise he could neuer haue donne it Thus muche he esteemeth the dishonours and ouerthrovves of Gods anointed Confut. Fol. 182. a. Harding Nay rather Lo saith M. Harding ye must needes confesse that M. Iewel belieth him and bothe vntruly reporteth his wordes and falsifieth that Storie For truly to speake it was not Pope Zacharie that deposed Childerike Let it be weighed what I saie touching this matter answering to the obiection which the Apologie maketh against the Popes in general These be my wordes Confut. Fol. 181. b. King Childerike of Fraunce deposed and Pipine aduaunced to the croune If the Pope Zacharias deposed Childerike for so I finde him more commonly named the king of Fraunce only vpon his owne pleasure or displeasure as ye saie and placed Pipine for him can ye tel that storie and not see what a strength of auctoritie is in that See which is hable with a worde to place and displace the mightiest king in Europe With a worde I saie for I am sure you can shewe vs of no armie that he sent to execute that his wil. Is that the power of a man trowe ye to appointe Kingdomes Can the Deuil him selfe at his pleasure set vp and depose Kinges No surely And muche lesse can any member of his doo the same Remember ye what Christe said when the Iewes obiected that he did cast out Deuilles Math. 12. in the name of the prince of Deuilles Beware ye sinne not against the holy Ghoste who confesse that the Pope hath pulled downe and set vp Kinges Which thing vndoubtedly he could not doo profitably and peaceably but by the great power of God And yet did that line of Pipine The prosperitie of the line of Pipine and Charles surmounted al other VVhat did Pope zacharias in the deposing of king Childerike and Charles the great whiche the Pope did set vp florish aboue any other stocke that ye can name sence the inclination of the Romaine Empire Whiche in that transposed state of so great a Kingdome maketh no obscure Argument of heauenly approbation and diuine prouidence Neither did the Pope Zacharias depose Childerike bicause he fansied him not as ye sclaunder but only consented to loose his subiectes from bonde of othe made to him at the general and most earnest request and sute of al the Nobilitie and communaltie of the whole realme of Fraunce VVhat manner a maÌ„ Childerike vvas finding him very vnprofitable and vnmeete for the kingdome as one who being of no witte and therefore commonly named Stupidus as muche to saie a dolt was altogethâ—â— besides like a Sardanapalus geuen wholly to belly chere and to filthy loue of women Therefore in your owne wordes ye confesse a diuine power in the Pope as by whom God directeth the willes of faithful princes on the earth The more such examples ye bring the worse ye make your cause I would hier you to ease me of the labour of prouing such a notable facte You that find so great fault with Pope Zacharias for coÌ„senting after a sort to the depositioÌ„ of Childerike a beastly man an vnprofitable and vnworthy King of Fraunce why do ye allow cherish and coÌ„mend so much Christofer Goodman and Iohn Knoxe with their felowes and helpers that were together at Geneua for writing intising and doing what in their power did lye to depose the noble and lawful Quenes of England and Scotland and with the Blastes of their traiterous Trompettes to remoue them from the right of their Crownes and roial estates Saith not Goodman that Wiat did his duetie in taking Armes against Queene Marie and that al such were Traitours as deceiued him and tooke not his parte If al be rightly constrewed the Quenes Maiestie of England now being I suppose hath no great cause GoodmaÌ„s bookes named the first and secoÌ„d blaste against the monstrous regimeÌ„t of vvomen Item an other hovv to obey or disobey VVith other the like fierbraÌ„des of knoxe aÌ„d Gilbie GoodmaÌ„ in the Treatie hovv to obeie or disobeie pag. 204. either to commende them for such seditious Blastes or to like wel of you and your companions for geuing eare winde and fauour to the blowing of the same If Goodman had ben Pope of Rome as Knoxe they saie taketh vpon him to be Pope of Scotland ô Lorde what Counterblastes would ye and your good fellow Trompeters eâ— this haue blowen vp against him Long er this tâ—e whole world should haue rong of it and the Pulpites whiche ye vse as your
many as be so farre accursed of God as to beleeue your wicked generation that ye neither entre in thither your selues nor suffer others to entre The place where the wordes be with whiche you would incense the Queenes wrath against me hath no general threats as you saie but conteine such true matter as I am not a shamed of confute it if you can verely in your Defence ye haue not done it Ye confounde saie I the offices of the spiritual Gouernours and temporal Magistrates What Kinges Confut. fol. 298. a. and Princes maie doo what they be commaunded to doo and ought of duetie to doo in Goddes name let them doo and wel maie they so doo Who is he that gainesaith If by the pretensed example of Dauid and Salomon ye animate them to intermedle with Bishoply offices then beware they saie we that Goddes Vengeance light not vpon them for such wicked presumption whiche lighted vpon king Ozias for the like offence 2. Par. 26. I marueil you denie that the Vengeance of God lighted vpon king Ozias for the like Presumption to that whereunto by your monstrous lawe and Doctrine ye animate your Princes Whiche parte denie you That Goddes Vengeance lighted vpon him Or that the Presumption is like For proufe of the Vengeance ye haue the plaine Scripture 2. Paralip 26. whiche saith that Ozias pounished for presumption as he would haue burned incense to our Lorde at the Aulter of the sweete perfume whiche belonged to the office of the Priestes only to doo a Lepre rose in his forehead whereupon the Priestes draue him out of the Temple and he himselfe also made hast that he were gonne out 2. Par. 26 saith the texte eo quòd sensisset illicò plagam Domini for that streight waie he felte the plague of our Lorde Touching the Presumption it is like For in bothe it is an vndue geuing of aduenture to doo that thing which belongeth to Bishoply Priestly auctoritie aÌ„d power geuen vnto the Quene by the Parlament and priestly office And what is that which Bishoppes and Priestes maie doo whiche ye haue not by your Acte of Parlament geuen the Quene auctoritie to do What power or auctoritie is excepted where al thinges and causes be expressed where I saie by solemne othe taken before God and his holy Angelles ye binde men to acknowledge her for the chiefe and supreme Head for by your new worde Gouernoure ye take not awaie I trowe the meaning of your former worde Head in al thinges and causes as wel spiritual as temporal Ye know ye know M. Iewel this is a very large Commission for a woman to exercise in Christes Churche Tel vs not of your newe deuised Iniunction as for a poore shifte ye are wont to doo so thinne a cloke wil not fence you againste so greate a storme of weather Although the Queene that now is haue no great delite in the exercise of al manner suche auctoritie as ye haue put her in yet what if after her time there come in her place an other Prince King or Queene of an other manner courage and fansie whom it shal like wel sometimes for his pleasure strange deuotion ambitioÌ„ or pride to doo the office which by lawe of your Parlament is committed vnto him 2 Par. 26. as it is written of king Ozias that when he became mightie and of great power his harte was lifted vp and he would needes doo that whiche belonged onely to the Priestes office If it shal like suche a Prince be he your Soueraine Lorde or Soueraine Ladie to go into your Pulpites and there after your manner to raue and raile at the Pope at the Papistes and to tel the people a peece of your lusty Geneuian Gospel whereby they maie be stirred to allewdnesse and carnal libertie If I saie the Prince that shal succeede the Queene that now is shal take vpon him so to doo what wil ye saie in this case M. Iewel and your good Brethren Wil ye come vnto him and tel him Sir if it like your Maiestie you maie not so doo Wil ye saie that it belongeth to you and to such Ministers of the word as you are and to none elles Wil ye resiste him in that attempte and driue him out of the Churche if by that time ye shal haue any Church standing at al as the Priestes of Iewrie resisted and draue out of the Temple King Ozias If your hartes shal serue you so to doo and he replie against you saying that by graunt of your owne Parlament which is a most assured warrant ye haue geuen him the supreme power auctoritie and gouernement in al thinges and causes as wel spiritual as temporal and that therefore he wil vse and practise suche power as he maie by your owne graunte what haue ye then to saie Wil ye then face him out with your pretie litle worthe Iniunctions deuised by two or three Ministers Wil that serue the turne trow ye It wil not it wil not ye maie be assured Now let vs heare with what other matter M. Iewel chargeth me Item there Iewel Thus be saith vnto your Maiestie and vvith al his skil and cunning Confut. fol 277. Confut. fol. 328. a Confut. fol. 172. b Reioind 314. Conf. 87. a CoÌ„f. 269. b Rei 42. a. Conf. 43. a CoÌ„f. 269. a 323. b. 334. a. 338. a. 348. b. A bundel of Vntruthes laboureth to persuade your Maiesties Subiectes if any one or other happely of simplicite vvil beleeue him that the godly Lavves vvhiche your Maiestie hath geuen vs to liue vnder are 1 no Lavves that your Parlamentes are 2 no Parlamentes that your Clergie is 3 no Clergie our Sacramentes no 4 Sacramentes our Faith no 5 Faith The Church of England vvhereof your Maiestie is the most principal and Chiefe he calleth a 6 malignant Churche a nevve Church erected by the dâ—â—il a Babylonical Tovver a Heard of Antichriste a Temple of Lucifer a Synagoge and a Schole of Satan ful of Robberie Sacrilege Schisme and Heresie Harding First that I say thus vnto the Quenes Maiestie it is a grosse and a palpable lye and a lye in sight For al know that reade my Confutation that in my booke I directed not my wordes vnto the Quene but vnto M. Iewel and vnto his companions that conferred with him towardes the making of the Apologie That I saie in my Confutation The Lawes made in the Quenes time be no Lawes it is an other lye That I saie The Parlamentes be no Parlamentes it is likewise an other lye That I saie The Quenes Clergie is no Clergie although I said it not and so is it the fourth lye yet here I maie saie it is a very womanly Clergie if it be a Clergie at al. That I saie Their two Sacramentes are no Sacramentes The Faith of Heretikes not Faith but perfidie it is the fifth lye Sacramentes they maie be though Schismatical Heretical corrupte and polluted Sacramentes The manner
Bastardes An. 1273. In prouisione de Martona cap. 9. paste wholy with the Lordes Temporal whether the Lordes spiritual would or no yea and that contrary to the expresse Decrees and Canons of the Churche of Rome Al these thinges saith he the wise and learned could sone haue tolde me And faine would I know of the wise and learned in deede whether al these thinges be true or other wise Verely for my parte I haue great cause to doubte If an other man had said them I should rather haue beleeued them As for M. Iewel I haue so generally founde him false in reporting al mennes sayinges whiche I examine by their bookes that I see good cause to misturst him euery where when so euer I lacke the bookes from whence he bringeth his allegations And although al that here he reporteth touching this matter were truely reported yet thereby it is not proued that al was lawfully and wel done But hereof as I said before I refuse to entre dispute But now whereas M. Iewel committeth Religion and al matters touching Faith vnto the Lordes Temporal and Commons assembled in Parlamente and wil that al orders and Statutes by them made and enacted concerning the same stand for good and lawful though the Bishoppes dissent neuer so muche By this he maketh the Faith not a Standerd to measure our opinions and iudgementes by as it ought to be but he maketh the willes and fansies of the Lordes the Standerd whereby to measure our Faith Faith made chāgeable according to the change of times And so the Faith shal be changeable according to the change of times For whereas al menne know in how fewe thinges the Lordes dissent from the wil and pleasure of the Prince who seeth not how thus it maie come to passe that our Religion and Faith shal change at the pleasure of euery Prince for the time being and that so at length we shal haue no stable Religion nor Faith at al If M. Iewel wil saie it behoueth al menne to know Gods worde and not to suffer them selues to yelde vnto any thinge that is not allowed thereby what remedie can be prouided against al errour when Princes and Lordes shal finde suche Doctours and Preachers as M. Iewel is who shal easily persuade the people that to be the meaning of Goddes worde by which the Princes and Lordes maie acheeue their desires But hereof I shal perhappes haue occasion to speake more hereafter Now whereas he complaineth so greuously of me for that I cal their Church I meane them that made the Apologie and their fauourers a malignant Churche a new Churche erected by the Deuil a Babilonical Tower a heard of Antichriste a Temple of Lucifer a Synagoge a Schoole of Satan ful of Robberie Sacrilege Schisme and Heresie If he his felowes and their folowers wil repent them hartily and vnfeinedly of their errours and heresies and returne home againe vnto the Catholique Churche if they wil ceasse to diuide and scatter abroad with the deuil the author of diuision and gather together with Christe and repaire vnitie if they wil leaue the manifolde and absurde confusion of opinions and doctrines whiche their sundrie sectes doo professe and mainteine stubbornly if they wil leaue to prepare a waie for Antichriste by their euil doctrine leading the worlde to al libertie of the flesh if they wil cal to God for grace and dispose them selues to humilitie if they wil at length heare the Catholique Churche if they wil acknowledge their wicked doctrine against the daily Sacrifice to procede out of Satans Schoole as it is confessed by Luther him selfe if they wil not mainteine their Robberies and Spoiles of Churches as iuste deedes if they wil forsake their Incestuous and Sacrilegious Marriages Briefly if they wil amende wherein they haue offended I wil gladly reuoke those wordes and how so euer in respecte of time past they haue deserued so to be spoken of I wil speake of them no other wise then of the Children of the Churche then of our dere brethren then of Goddes frendes Thus I haue answered the chiefe partes of M. Iewels epistle to the Quenes Maiestie and by repeating myne owne wordes which I was forced to doo I haue shewed euidently to the Readers eye how shamelesly he belyeth me and my Treaties Whereof the Reader maie take a view and so iudge what credite he deserueth in the rest of his Defence As for the rest of his epistle consisting wholy of flatterie I thinke not worth the answering Neither hath he vsed any more truthe in his Preface to the Christian Reader and in his Epistle to me set at the ende of his Defence where he filleth his magent with great numbers of Quotations pretending thereby the absurde and vntrue pointes in the Texte reproued to be founde in the Treaties whiche so busily he quoteth Now if I should in likewise answer to euery suche parte in the said Preface and Epistle conteined by these fewe it maie appeare to what hugenesse my booke would growe and of the whole what vnprofitable matter would rise soothly none other but a cōtinual and lothsome declaration of his vntrue dealing in one sorte or other But for so much as the same is by this briefe Answer to his Epistle dedicatorie alreadie sufficiently discouered that other labour maie seeme needelesse As we finde him in this so we finde him in the rest though otherwise not very constant yet in the rate of his writing one manner a man that is to saie one that euery where maketh his onely aduantage of lyes falsifyinges and corruptions How vniustly M. Iewel obiecteth sharpe speache and vncourteous wordes vnto his Aduersarie and how iuste cause there was that suche order of speache should be vsed The .2 Chapter GEntle Reader cōsider I pray thee indifferently how the case standeth betwixt M. Iewel and me Before he entreth into his Defence of the Apologie betwen his Epistle to the Quenes Maiestie and his Preface to the Reader he hath extraordinarily inserted foure leaues In which he laboureth al that he can to perfourme two thinges to discredit me and to aduaunce his owne credit To bring this to passe First he accuseth me next he excuseth him selfe He accuseth me of vncourteous Wordes he excuseth him selfe of fowle Vntruthes setting forth a colourable Viewe of a few of the same How reasonably he doth the one and how sufficiently the other by that I shal here declare thou maist iudge First touching wordes Where so euer godly zeale and iuste griefe moued me to vse sharpe speache albeit nowhere I vse so sharpe as the indignite of the thing required of al those places he hath caused certaine my wordes to be culled out and to be laid together as it were in a table before the Reader And bicause he would not seme scorneful euen there reprouing me for the same he calleth them forsooth certaine principal flowers of M. Hardinges modest speache And least he should at any time leaue his common
custome of falsifying al that he taketh in hande euen here also he playeth that parte as kindely as any where elles For although some suche wordes or the like be in deede founde in my writinges against him yet they beare not suche an owgly and lothsom visard as he putteth on them As for example whereas sometimes for good cause I can not finde in my harte to cal these mennes rash Innouation of the auncient religion their wicked abrogation of certaine Sacramentes their vile prophanation of the reste their horrible contempte of the body and bloude of Christe in the most blessed Sacrament of the Aulter whereas I say I can not finde in my harte to cal these thinges Godly procedinges restoring of the Gospel the sincere Worde the right Ministration of the Lordes Supper as they would al men to cal them but contrarywise Deuilish spite wickednes and villanie to cause the mater to seme more odious he reporteth my wordes thus your Deuilish spite your Deuilish wickednes your Deuilish villanie c as thoughe I had spoken them to him and to his felowes specially whereas for the more part suche wordes are spoken not in the second but in the third person of the Heretikes of our time indefinitely and in general Whiche neuerthelesse if I had spoken vnto him and them directly it had ben no greeuous sinne their desert considered For therein had I folowed the counsel whiche S. Antonie that blessed man gaue vnto his Scholers a litle before he departed this life To whom he said thus as S. Athanasius who wrote his life reporteth Athanas in vita Antonij Haereticorum venena vitate meumque erga eos odium sectamini Scitis quòd nullus mihi pacificus sermo cum eis fuerit Auoide the poisons of Heretiques and folow the hatred that I haue borne them Ye know that I had neuer any peaseable talke with them How so euer it be it had benne M. Iewels parte to haue vsed more truth in his writing But why did he not set forth my whole sayinges where suche wordes be placed What reason is it a man to burthen his Aduersarie with certaine wordes only and with silence to dissemble his entiere sentences By what laudable example hath he done thus Whiche of the olde Fathers euer did so If no man euer did it before these daies then so farre as the Catholique Church hath not erred in Faith and hath no neede now to receiue a new Gospel of Luther Zuinglius or Caluine by this practise he sheweth him selfe aswel a folower of the inuentours of new malice as a mainteiner of new Heresies Brentius the first author of this new deuise of laying the Aduersaries sharpe wordes together in one heape practized by M. Iewel This deuise of laying together in a heape al the sharpe wordes with whiche one feeleth him selfe prickte culled out of the aduersaries wriâ—â—nges is very strange and new and before this age whiche bringeth forth many rare nouelties was neuer vsed of any learned man In our time it is begonne and for ought I know first practized by Brentius who in the beginning of his booke against Bullinger entituled Recognitio propheticae Apostolicae doctrinae c written in defence of his newe doctrine of Vbiquitie laieth together in a heape al the wordes that Bullinger had vttered in his booke against him whiche might seeme sharpe rough and vngentle so softely must these menne now be handled after that they haue spent al their intemperate railing vpon the Pope the Papistes the most blessed Sacrament of the Aulter the daily Sacrifice the other Sacramentes and the godly Ceremonies of holy Churche Wherefore M. Iewel is not like to haue the glorie of this new deuise he must be content to yeelde it vnto Iohn Brentius whose ape and folower he is in this as in many other pointes worthy of smal praise Now if Bullinger the grande Captaine of the Sacramentaries of which secte M. Iewel is a professed mainteiner thought it not vnseemely for the grauitie of his Ministership to be so plaine with Brentius as to put him in minde sometimes of his deserued titles by saying he was Rixator Spiritus inflatus CaluÌ„niator c. a Branler In RespoÌ„sione BreÌ„tij ad primam partem Bullingeri pag. 8. 9. a pufte Sprite a spiteful speaker a skoffer a mocker a Hickescorner a peruerter a lyer vncleane impudeÌ„t a babler a brabler a craker a thrower of Christ out of his heauenly seate madde light childish a iangler a reuiler a sclaunderous person an Eutychian a Sophiste a railer woorse then Swenckefeldius him selfe Againe if he thought it not discommendable in him selfe being the chiefe Superintendent of Zurich to cal BreÌ„tius booke writen in defence of that new heresie Brentianas nebulas figmenta c. The mistes and deuises of Brentius Head vaine and peeuish â—oies knauish folies a doctrine dissoluing the hope of the faithfulles assured saluation in heauen a madnesse a phantasie Sophistrie crafty fetches most false deuises a feeble write Sophismes guiles a booke of Riddles a fabulous monstre a Sophistical Egypte stincking trifles prodigious Vbiquitie frantique wordes c If Bullinger I saie one of your noblest Worthies thought it not vnseemely for his degree and state to vse suche bitter eloquence and order of speach in reprouing Brentius and was neuer and it is like should neuer haue benne reproued for it among them of your owne Sacramentarie Secte M. Iewel why are you so heauy a Maister to me whom you esteeme muche lesse then Henrie Bullinger the Successour of your great Patriarke Zuinglius in the Chaier of your doctrine at Zurich as to blame that in me whiche you could not finde in your harte to disallow in Bullinger Wel how so euer in please you fauorably to iudge of your owne great Maisters and laye lode of reproches vpon me yet this muche you maie cal to your consideration Wordes considered alone without composition sounde good or euil according to their signification and al manner of wordes may be vsed without blame Of the sentences and whole sayinges onely where the circumstance may be considered and weighed faire or fowle speache is conceiued Now if thou wilt take the paines Reader to turne to the places of my bookes whence M. Iewel hath piked out those wordes for vse of whiche he reproueth me as a man of vncourteous vtterance thou shalt right wel perceiue in case heresie haue not vtterly bewitched thyne vnderstanding and bereued thee of al iudgement the verdure of my speache to be suche as may seme conuenient for a vessel of the holy Ghoste to taste of It may please M. Iewel to consider that by degree of Schoole and by lawful calling otherwise I stand in the place of teachers And therefore though at this present the Pulpite be denyed me yet I find not my selfe wholly so discharged of the office of teaching Now hauing no other conuenient meane to teache but by writing what ought I at this tyme to write
Ye are like to whitted Sepulchres Matth. 23. Liers euil beastes slow bellies Tit. 1. God shal strike thee thou painted wal said S. Paule to Ananias Act. 23. O ye foolishe Galathians Galat. 3. False Apostles guileful workers 2. Cor. 11. The enemies of the Crosse of Christe whose bellye is their God Philip. 3. O ye stifnecked and vncircumcised in hartes and eares ye haue euer resisted the holy Ghost said S. Steuen vnto the Iewes Act. 7. As Iannes and Iambres withstode Moyses so these withstand the truth 2. Tim. 3. Hye minded proude blasphemous Ibidem Their worde creapeth forth like a canker 2. Tim. 2. Their tong is ful of deadly poison Iacob 3. These Dreamers defile the flesh despise rulers and speake euil of them that are in auctoritie Iudae As beastes whiche are without reason Woe be vnto them For they haue folowed the way of Cain and are vtterly geuen to the errour of Balaam for lucres sake and perish in the treason of Chore. Ibidem Why tempte ye me ye Ypocrites said Christe Matth. 22 Wo be vnto you Scribes and Pharisees Ypocrites Mat. 23 Wo be vnto you blinde guides Ibid. O ye fooles and blinde Ibid. Ypocrite first caste out the beame out of thine owne eye and then c. Matth. 7. It were not harde Christian Reader here to lay forth a greater heape of wordes gathered out of the Scriptures which M. Iewel reproueth in me as vncourteous and vnciuile and proceding altogether of choler But these few may suffice for shewe that if we consider wordes only and not the Circumstance of the sentence and the iuste cause why they were with such vehemencie vttered the holy Ghoste may seme also chargeable of vncourteous and vnciuile speache by whose prompting the Scriptures of God haue ben written If the matter of M. Iewels greuous accusation depende of wordes considered in them selfe onely the Scriptures haue wordes that being put a parte sownde more roughly then any yet by the written or by him noted And so farre is that pretensed fault in both Testamentes nolesse then in my bookes But if al be to be weighed by the sentences wherein suche woordes be placed and by the deserte of them in whose reproufe they be vttered as reason is it should then I appeale to al men of iudgement the dew circumstances and causes wel considered whether I haue at any time passed the bowndes of a zealous defender of the Catholique Religion whereof I make profession That the vse of sharpe speache is conuenient according to the desert of M. Iewel and of his felowes LEt the rehersal of my whole sentences with their circumstance in whiche the wordes be founde that doo so much offend be differred vntil anonne And here to turne thy tale vnto you M. Iewel and vnto your felowes lette it be lawful for me to come vnto the causes by whiche I was iustly moued so to write and to the very thinges them selfe for which ye deserue so to be written of The oddes betwixte M. Ievvel and them of his side and vs. and with such courtesie of wordes to be greeted Who be you M. Iewel and who be they of your side Who am I or rather who are we For of my selfe I am content no accompte be made but only as I apply myne endeuour to defende the Churche and the Catholique Faith by you impugned As for vs say the worst ye can of vs we are Catholiques By your owne confession your doctrine hath not benne in al Churches at al times taught and therefore ye haue tolde vs we knowe not what of your Church that it is inuisible secret vnknowen and lurketh in corners no man can tel where and therefore ye are not Catholique We remaine in that we haue receiued ye are departed from that ye receiued The doctrine for whiche ye make suche sturre is it not openly knowen to al from what men ye had it and how late ye learned it Where was this fifth Gospel so muche as whispered in any knowen corner of the worlde before that lewd Augustine Frier Martin Luther brake his vowe ranne out of his Cloister and yoked him selfe to his wanton Nonne Where was your Sacramentarie doctrine preached before Frier Huskin that new named him selfe Oecolampadius likewise brake his solemne promise to God forsooke his Religion and coupled him selfe to a young yoke fellowe Before their time who heard the sownde of your Gospel Where had ye any Dioces any Bishoppe any Church any Priest any Chappel any so much as a Parrish Clerke in the whole worlde Tel vs not as ye are woont of Wiklef Huss Ierome of Prague Berengarius Bertram and a few other which were but byles and botches in the Churche and be in no wise worthy the name of Churche Forgete not what you say in your Apologie that Luther and Zuinglius came first to the Gospel Remember ye cal that time the first appearing the spring and the first grasse as it were of your Gospel If it be so how be ye Catholique or how be ye of the Catholique Churche which is so called in respecte of the vniuersalitie of times Vincētius Lirinen places and personnes As for vs on the otherside we are hable to shew you the continuance of our faith and Doctrine by orderly successions of Bishops going vpward euen from those learned and holy Fathers whom for none other cause but only for the Catholique Faith of Christes Churche most vniustly ye kepe in Prison to S. Gregorie who sent godly Preachers to conuert the English people of our countrie vnto the Faith of Christe and from S. Gregorie further vpward vnto S. Peter and S. Paule that preached the Faith in Rome and consequently vnto Christe him selfe If we would speake vnto you in the person of the Catholique Church whereof we are a parte we might say vnto you those wordes of Tertullian spoken to Heretiques Mea est possessio olim possideo prior possideo Tertul. li. Praescript aduersus haereticos habeo origines firmas ab ipsis authoribus quorum fuit res Ego sum haeres Apostolorum The Scripture and the right sense of the Scripture is my possession I am in possession of olde I claime possession by former right The Churche continueth to the worldes ende vvithout al intermission Matt. 28 Iohan. 14 I haue the assured originals from the first authours by whom it was set forth It is I that am the Apostles heire The Churche M. Iewel as ye ought to knowe continueth from Christes Ascension vnto the ende of the worlde without intermission and without exception of any age or yeres Wil ye haue vs proue it What can we say if ye wil not beleeue Christe nor God him selfe I wil be with you saith Christe al daies vnto the ende of the worlde Againe I wil beseche my Father and he shal geue you an other conforter to remaine with you for euer the Spirite of truthe whiche the worlde can not receiue God saith to Christe in
benne commended most for the spirite of meekenes the same thowgh toward other offenders haue shewed them selues like milde Moyses yet hauing to do with Heretikes commonly haue demeaned them selues like earnest Elias If lyers should be entreated in like sorte as true reporters slaunderers and backebyters as faithful frendes heretikes as catholikes Apostates as stedfast Christians blasphemers as saintes truth should be iniured wickednes flattered vertue misprised Of whom the truth was impugned or resisted with malice them litle spared either the Prophetes or the Apostles or Christ him selfe Thus may al this matter for which M. Iewel hath made so much adoo seme to haue benne sufficiently answered before Neither with more truth hath he alleaged that other saying of myne which standing by it selfe alone as he hath placed it in his booke immediatly after the former falsified saying geueth out a colourable shew as if I condemned my selfe Thus he layeth it forth Ievvel Againe in the same Confutation There is no man of vvisedom or honestie that vvould vvith so immoderate vpbraidinges impaire the estimation of his modestie fol. 300. b. Harding But in that saying M. Iewel I rebuke the impudent lyes and slaunders of him that wrote the Apologie who there raileth immoderatly at the Bishops whom the holy Ghost Actâ— 20. as S. Paule saith hath ordeined to gouerne the Church of God saying that neither they knowe nor wil knowe the thinges perteining to their charge nor set a iote by any point of Religion saue that which concernes their belly and riot And there further vncharitably he burdeneth them as if they were so wicked as to commaund Christian Princes to destroy al Religion and to crucifie againe Christe him selfe In my answer to this among other wordes thus I say Confut. 300. b. Put the wordes of this railing Defenders amplification aside and the whole sentence that riseth of al this talke is only this It is not reason Bishops be iudges in matters of faith and not secular Princes Now to geue a colour hereto and to moue Princes to take the matter into their owne handes they say as becommeth them and none els For there is no man of wisedome or honestie that would with so impudent lyes diminish his credite and with so immoderate vpbraidinges impaire the estimation of his modestie Neither be these men so hote in this matter for any loue they beare to secular Princes For if any such Prince be not a fauorer of their Gospel then haue they a Blast of a Trompet to blow him downe as it appeareth by their bookes made against the monstrous regiment of women and by the good obedience their French brethren the Huguenotes kepe toward their king in France Other examples of the like Euangelical obedience in other countries I leaue to mennes remembrance The circumstance of this whole matter considered which may better be seene in my booke I reporte me to the discrete Reader whether any iust cause be ministred to M. Iewel to pike quarel to the wordes by him alleaged specially if they be wholly and truly alleaged But why did he nippe of those foure wordes with so impudent lyes Doth not this discouer his falsehode and shew of whom that saying was meant It semed good to such a lyer to shifte away the mention of Lyes from the Readers eyes that he might not seme charged therewith Thus al his aduantage standeth in falsehode But what shal a man say To require plainenesse and truth of such a Defender of vntruthe were to require him either to vnsay al that he hath said or to say nothing at al. For certaine it is falsehode can neuer be defended by truth Now it remaineth that I require the Reader to conferre the peeces of sentences that M. Iewel hath culled out of my writinges with the whole sentences as they are by me written and with the circumstance of the places whence they be piked out That being done let it be weighed whether I speake ouer bitterly or he be answered according to his deserte For example I thinke it good here to lay two or three before the Reader that so he be admonished to doo the like him selfe for trial and iudgement to be made in the reste Here to lay forth al were to print againe a great parte of my bookes Special vvordes of discourtesie noted by M. Iâ—wel In the first place then M. Iewel hath noted these wordes Your Deuilish spite Reioindre Fol. 18. b. Consider Reader how and vpon what occasion these wordes are there vttered There thou findest thus First he maketh his entrie with a solemne praier protestantlike as if he were about to make a Sermon and his fauorable hearers ready to sing a song Then he accuseth the inflammation of my choler because alluding to the wordes of Daniel I glaunced at the name of the Foreronners of Antichriste therewith rubbing him and his holy companions as it were on their gaulle for the Deuilish spite they shew to the blessed sacrifice of Christe mystically represented and truly continewed in the dayly Sacrifice of the Church now called the Masse Here I said not Your Deuilish spite directing my talke to you M. Iewel but the Deuilish spite they shew to the blessed Sacrifice of Christe speaking indefinitely of the Protestantes and Sacramentaries of our time And why may I not resonably cal their spite against the Sacrifice a Deuilish spite sithence Luther was taught it of the Deuil him selfe by a night coÌ„ference with him as the wil of God was See the Preface before my secoÌ„d Reioindr Fol. 34. b. he should confesse it in open writing him selfe Whereof I speake in my preface before my last Reioindre there setting forth the same famous Disputation betwen the Deuil and Luther out of Luthers own boke The seconde note of bitter wordes that M. Iewel layeth to my charge is this Your Deuilish vvickednes But where found he these three wordes His cotation is this Reioinder Preface to the Reader But what if I haue vttered no such peece of sentence in al that Preface True it is Reader I haue no such saying there in deede If thou wouldst faine saue M. Iewels honestie and trie the truth peruse that whole Preface if thou find it there let it be blowen abrode that he belieth me not in this point though he haue so done in many other If thou finde it not geue vs leaue to say as truth is that for lacke of good matter against the Catholike Doctrine he deuiseth of his owne head slaunderous Lyes against his Aduersarie Whiche is the common practise of them whose cause is naughte And why hath he put this note in the second place O it had ben a fowle crase to his worship being suche a famous Minister of the worde as he is to haue begonne this new deuise with a flatte lye And thereof was he not ignorant And for that cause he placed the other Note before this whereas folowing order he should haue placed this before that For
M. Iewel in his Defence goeth about to proue with many testimonies to no purpose I denie not Pag. 227. ne neuer denied but this specâ—â—â— Decâ—â—â— of Anacletus iâ—â—â— be 〈…〉 of thâ— Clergie onely Anacletus in prima Epistola Decretali that attendâ—â— vpon the Bishop as the Circumstance of the place in thâ— Epistle of Anacletus showeth This is to be sene in my Confutation fol. 9â— a. To this M. Iewel replieth and saith Here M. Harding is soone reproued euen by his owne Dectours Darandus Hugo Cochlaus Clichthâ—ueus For thus they saie Omnes olim tum Sacerdotes tum Laici cum sacrificante communicabant c. Hiâ— vnum de hae re Canonem recitâ—bo qui Calixto â—scribitur Hereto I answer If I saie otherwise touching this point then these whom M. Iewel calleth myne owne Doctours haue said therein I am gainesaid it wil not folow that I am reproued Dâ—randus and Hugo say nothing that is contrary to my vnderstanding of Anacletus Decree As for Coclaeus and Clichthoueus menne of our tyme what if they tooke it otherwise then I doo That is their Priuate sense It foloweth not thereof that I am deceiued That Anacletâ—â— Decree touching the necessitie of Communion to be receiued perteineth onâ—y to the Clergie Nicol. Cusanus epi. 7. ad Clerum literatos Bohemia Degradentur I haue good cause rather to beleeue Cardinal Cusanus who semeth to haue examined this Decree farther and more exactly thâ—n these two late writers haue done For thus he reciteth the Later parte of the Decree as it is in the Original out of Burchardus Sic enim Apostoli statuerunt sancta Romanae tenet Ecclesia si hoc neglexerint degâ—adentur Let al communicate that were present at the Consecration saith the Decree for so the Apostles haue ordeined and so the holy Romaine Curche holdeth and if they omitte it by contempte lette them be degraded or deposed from their Degree Cusanus willeth the worde Degradentur Degradentur to be weighed and thereof gathereth that the Decree speaketh only of them of the Clergie that were present at the Consecration and were admitted into Sancta Sanctorum the holy place where none came but such as were in Ecclesiastical Orders 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is to say of the Clergie as they are called in the. 9. Canon among the Canons of the Apostles whereunto the Decree maketh relation Hereof I haue spoken sufficiently beside the place of my Confutation aboue mencioned in my first Reionder fol. 220. a. and againe fol. 308. a. Thus you remaine stil charged with this Vntruthe For it is not inough to say what is written but to discerne what is best written M. Ievvel The Apologie Parte 2. cap. 8. Diuis 2. Gregorius Nazianzenus saith speaking of his owne Father The .3 Vntruth that a good and a diligent Bishop doth serue in the Ministerie neuer the woorse for that he is married but rather the better Here I tolde M. Iewel that he vsed his accustomed Figure Pseudologia whiche is as muche to say as lying in plaine Englishe For in deede he neuer saied it And so muche doo I tel him here once againe But lette vs consider of his Replie wherein he seemeth to plaie the parte of a woorse Lyer then before Thus he saith An vntruth proceding of grosse ignoraÌ„ce or of great impudencie This errour of M. Hardinges grewe of ignorance For Nazianzenes wordes be very plaine Meo Patri Mater mea c. My Mother being geuen to my Father of God became not onely his helper for that had benne no great woonder but also was his leader and Captaine both by worde and by deede trayning him vnto the beste In Religion and godlines she doubted not to becomme his Maistresse Nazianzenus in Epitaphio patris The faithful vvoman trauailed vvith her vnfaithful husband to bring him vnto the Faith she did not so after that he vvas made Bisshop August Confess li. 9. cap. 9. Al this and muche more vttered by the learned sonne of his godly Mother is to be vnderstanded of the time when his father was an Infidel She being a Christian woman and comme of a Christian stocke being married vnto her husband remaining yet without beleefe in Christe vsed al the good meanes of a helper guide leader schoolemaistresse and teacher to induce him vnto the Faith Whiche thing by Goddes grace at length she perfourmed as the holy wooman Monica S. Augustines mother did likewise in winning Patricius her husband vnto the Faith of Christe not long before he died as S. Augustine witnesseth But that euer she tooke vpon her so to teache him after that he was chosen Bisshoppe of Nazianzum for that M. Iewel is not hable to shewe vs so muche as one woorde or halfe woorde and yet that doth he constantly affirme in his pretensed Defence In the Defence page 178. This being so what maketh it to the iustification of his Vntruthe It may please thee good Reader to peruse that I say of this hereafter where I treate of it at large and confute this impudent Vntruthe of M. Iewels thoroughly Confutation fol. 76. in sequent Howbeit I confuted the same also sufficiently in my Confutation of the Apologie M. Ievvel The Apologie Parte 6. cap. 5. Diuis 2. Pope Liberius saith he was a fauourer of the Arian Heretiques The 4. Vntruth That he was a fauourer of the Arians it is vtterly vntrue saie I. And it were not harde if I were desirous to furnish foorth a greate Booke with heapes of Doctours sayinges as M. Iewel is to allege very muche to the contrarie and in his Defence that he was a man of great constancie and neuer bare sauour towarde the mainteiners of that horrible heresie The contrarie appeareth by that Theodoritus writeth of him Libro Ecclesiasticae Historiae 2. cap. 17. Athanasius in Apologia saith he was bannished for that he would not subscribe vnto the Arian Heresie Tripart Lib. 5. cap. 16. M. Iewels Replie hereto is this The Authour hereof is S. Hierome de Ecclesiasticis Scriptoribus in Fortunatiano And one of M. Hardinges owne principal Doctours saith De Liberio Papa constat fuisse Arianum That Pope Liberius was no fauourer of the Arians Here haue we twoo newe Vntruthes added vnto the old Marke Reader what is that M. Iewel affirmeth and that I denie It is this that Pope Liberius was a fauourer of the Arian Heretiques S. Hierome in the place by M. Iewel alleged saieth not that Liberius was a fauourer of the Arians but that by the importunitie of Fortunatianus Bisshop of Aquileia Hieron in Catalogo ScriptoruÌ„ Eccl. 107. he was compelled to subscribe vnto Heresie as he was going into bannishment for the Faith Pro Fide ad exilium pergentem primus solicitauit ac fregit ad subscriptionem haereseos compulit saieth S. Hierome if these were his his owne woordes and not woordes added vnto him by Heretiques as
some haue iudged Nowe if a man be compelled to doo a thing wil M. Iewel saie of him that he is a fauourer of the thing Fauour presupposeth loue lyking and good wil. What we like not but abhorre and hate that can we not fauour If Pope Liberius bare fauour toward the Arian Heretiques then was it not compulsion that he subscribed vnto that Heresie If he were compelled to subscribe as certainely he was if he subscribed at al thereof he ought not to be called a fauourer of the Heresie It was for feare of pounishement and of Constantius the Emperours displeasure it was not of fauour For if he had fauoured it he should not haue benne thrust out of his Bishoprike and turned out into bannishment but haue benne great with the Emperour as other bishops were that to please him and for wordly preferment stickte not to subscribe Hieron in Chronicis S. Hierome writeth hereof otherwise in Chronicis saying that he subscribed victus exilij taedi◠ouercomme with the lothsomnesse of his bannishement Howe so euer it was and by what extremitie so euer he was driuen to subscribe certaine it is that he was not a fauourer of the Arian Heretiques Let M. Iewel consider of this mater in the like case Did M. Ievvel fauer the Papistes vvhen he was faine to subscribe to their Doctrine He once subscribed in a solemne assemblie of learned men at Oxford vnto the Popes supremacie the real Presence the Sacrifice of the Masse and to other partes of the Catholique Doctrine whiche now he so ernestly impugneth I trowe he wil not haue this muche said of him that then he was a fauourer of Papistrie And doubtelesse he that would saie so of him should belie him So were it true that Liberius through feare subscribed to the Arians yet it is not true that he was a fauourer of them And so M. Iewel hath not yet discharged him selfe of this Vntruth But who is that one of M. Hardinges owne principal Doctours that saith these wordes De Liberio Papa constat fuisse Arianum As concerning Pope Liberius it is certainely knowen that he was an Arian What is the cause that here M. Iewel nameth him not Why doth not he so muche as by a cotation in the margent signifie what Doctor this is Is he now growen more shamefast then heretofore that he woulde be loth to be found a notorious lyer in that place where he laboureth to discharge him selfe of Vntruthes Wel though he were a shamed to be taken with a lie yet was he not a shamed to make a lye This Principal Doctour of myne for so it pleaseth M. Iewel to be mery is Alphonsus de Castro How maie this be knowen Forsooth euen by M. Iewel him selfe who in his pretensed Defence writeth thus worde for worde where without al errour ye maie be sure he bringeth muche mater to shewe that the Pope maie erre Defence page 617. lin 2. Alphōsus impudētly belyed Certainely saith he to me Alphonsus your owne Doctour saith De Liberio Papa constat fuisse Arianum Touching Pope Liberius it is wel knowen he was an Arian And where saith Alphonsus thus Mary saith M. Iewel in his marginal cotation Alphōsus cōtrà haeres lib. 1. cap. 4. But read that Chapter who wil verely in the bookes of sundrie printes that I haue sene he saith it not If it were once so printed and afterward by th' Author reuoked it ought not to be alleged Thus M. Iewel going about to iustifie his Vntruthes doubleth his vntruthes So shal they do that take vpon them to defend Vntruthes To the obiection made against Pope Liberius my answer was sufficient before in my Confutatiō Confutation fol. 285. b. and so it remaineth for ought that M. Iewel bringeth in his Defence to the cōtrarie if al be iudged by learning M. Ievvel The Apologie parte 6. Cap. 5. Diuis 2. Pope Zosimus corrupted the Councel of Nice The 5. Vntruth Confutat fol. 286. a. To this I saie in my Confutation Zosimus is belied he corrupted not the Councel of Nice M. Iewel replieth This mater most plainely appeareth by the recordes of the Councel of Aphrica Of this matter M. Iewel ye haue treated bothe in your Replie in the fourth Article and in your pretensed Defence very vntruly What so euer you haue to saie for proufe of that blessed Popes forging of the Nicene Coūcel Copus Dialog 1. Cap. 6. 7. Stapletō Artic. 4. fo 30. in sequēt Dorman Fol. 94. c. it is clerely cōfuted by M. Stapletō and by M. Cope in whose Dialoges you would seme to be much cōuersant whiche either of pride you disdaine to acknowledge or of falshod you dissemble to know Bicause the matter requireth a long discourse and the same is already wel handled bothe by M. Stapleton in the Returne of Vntruthes and also by M. Dorman in his Disproufe of M. Nowels Reproufe I remit the reader vnto them promising him that by reading them he shal be satisfied at large and iudge M. Iewel conuicte and cast in a great Vntruthe M. Ievvel Apologie parte 6. Cap. 5. Diuis 2. Pope Iohn the .22 helde a detestable opinion touching the Immortalitie of the soule The. 6. Vntruth See my Confutation reader There haue I fully answered to that is laid to this Popes charge Confutation Fol. 285. b. touching the state of the Soule after this life The Apologie burtheneth him with a wicked and detestable opiniō of the life to come and of the Immortalitie of the Soule for so it speaketh Most certaine it is that M. Iew. there said Vntruth if the Apologie be his and that here againe he doubleth his Vntruth And what I said in my Confutation true it is and he shal neuer be hable to refel it Let vs now consider what truth there is in his Replie Gerson saith he in Sermone Pashali writeth Pope Iohn 22. decreed Gerson is impudētly belyed by M. Ievvel that the Soules of the wicked should not be pounished before the daie of the last Iudgemēt Which errour the Vniuersitie of Parise condēned for heresie and caused the Pope to recāt Hereto he addeth these wordes most impudētly Concil Constantien in Appendice In primis Quin imò Iohannes Papa 22. dixit et pertinaciter credit Animā hominis cū corpore humano mori extingui This is impudētly ascribed to Iohn 21. being spokē of Iohn 23. ad instar animaliū brutorū Dixitque mortuū semel etiā in nouissimo die minimè esse resurrecturū Thus farre M. Iew. in his View of Vntruthes What shal I saie but that al is false First touching this saying here in English pretended to be alleged as out of Gerson in Sermone Paschali whereas among al Gersons workes there are but two Sermons bearing this title In Festo Paschae In quarta parte operum Gersonis Linea 28. in neither of bothe is this saying to be founde Yet M. Iewel maketh him selfe so
the true sense leaft out thus I reporte you truly the wordes of the Councel of Chalcedon The honorable Iudges and Senatours said For asmuche as Flauianus of holy memorie and the reuerend Bishop Eusebius are found vniustly deposed it seemeth vnto vs good right that Dioscorus Bishop of Alexandria Iuuenalis Bishop of Ierusalem Thalassius B. of Caesarea in Cappadocia Eusebius B. of Ancyra Eustathius B. of Berytus and Basilius B. of Seleucia in Isauria who were the Captaines and rulers of that Councel at Ephesus where Flauianus and Eusebius were vniustly deposed should suffer the same pounishment à sancto Cancilio secuÌ„dùm regulas ab Episcopali dignitate fieri alienos asmuche to saie and that they should be put out of their bishoply dignitie by the holy Councel according vnto the Canons This is no sentence in iudgement pronounced against Dioscorus and the reste as M. Iewel taketh it Those noble laie men said what to them seemed iuste and right but by these wordes they gaue not sentence of condemnation or deposition They leaue that vnto the Councel by expresse wordes A sentence definitiue in iudgement standeth not in these or the like wordes it semeth to me or I think it good c But in these or the like I pronounce I condemne I â—bsolue c. The sentence of Dioscorus condemnation for he only was coÌ„demned al the other bishops were pardoned was solemnely pronounced in the Councel by Pope Leos Legates in the name and stede of the Pope Which thing I haue sufficiently set forth in my ConfutatioÌ„ Confutat pag. 316. where thou shalt finde Reader the sentence of condemnation expressed in English worde for worde as it was pronounced in the Councel And that very sentence is in the Councel Tomo 1. Concil Chalcedon Actione 3. pag. 8. Columna 2. Againe with what face could M. Iewel allege these wordes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Euagrius lib. 2. ca. 4 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Idem lib. 2. cap. 17. to proue that the Bishoppes were condemned by the Ciuile magistrate whereas those noble menne them selues said the contrarie that they iudged it right they should be depriued of their bishoply dignitie not by them or by their sentence but à sancto Concilio of or by the holy Councel and that according vnto the auncient Canons of the Churche Which wordes he might also haue founde fully reported in Euagrius in two sundrie places that there was no cause why he should so coÌ„fideÌ„tly tel me of the one of those places as he doth in the Defence pa. 683. Dioscorus deposed not by the Ciuil Magistrate but by the Councel of Chalcedon Act. 3. pag. 862. After that Dioscorus was condemned by sentence of Pope Leos Legates and consequently by al the bishoppes assembled in the Councel there was a solemne InstrumeÌ„t of his condemnatioÌ„ made and sent vnto him Where these wordes are by which it is cleare that the Councel condemned him and not the Ciuile Magistrate by sentence of his owne mouthe as M. Iewel vntruly reporteth Cognosce te ipsum propterea quòd diuinos Canones despexisti inobediens extitisti huic sancto vniuersali Concilio c. Octobris mensis praesentis tertiâ— decimo die à sancto vniuersali Concilio esse ab episcopatu depositum ab omni Ecclesiastica fanctione submotum Bicause thou hast despised the holy Canons and hast benne disobedient vnto this holy and vniuersal Councel c. know thou that in the thirteenth daie of this present moneth of October thou art by the holy and vniuersal Councel deposed from thy Bishoprike and remoued from al Ecclesiastical function Lo M. Iewel al this was done not by the Ciuile Magistrate but by the Councel As for the Ciuile Magistrate to whom your Gospel committeth al by report of that Councel is so farre from condemning Bishoppes by sentence of his owne mouth that he may not so much as be present at the examinations in such a case Aske ye of me how I proue it Looke in that Councel and ye shal finde these very woordes Quando quaedam regularia examinantur neque Iudices Act. 3. pag. 838. colum 2. neque alios aliquos Laicos interesse oportet When certaine regulare matters that is to say touching the Canons or rules of life are in examination neither Iudges nor other laie menne must be present And as concerning the condemnation of Dioscorus when it was done or rather when it was a doing neither Martianus the Emperour nor his officers knew of it For said the Iudges and senatours vnto the Bishops in that Councel Actio 4. Pag. 872. colum 1. Dioscorus à vobis damnatus est ignorante Diuo Vertice nobis Dioscorus hath benne condemned of you without the knowledge of the Emperours Maiestie and of vs. Now if he had benne condemned by the ciuile officers I trow M. Iewel wil not say that they knew it not For if they condemned him they knew it But they knew it not The fiue other Bishops not coÌ„deÌ„ned when he was condemned ergo they did not condemne him Now touching the other fiue Bishoppes who with Dioscorus bare al the swaie in that wicked Councel of Ephesus of whom Iuuenalis was one and Thalassius an other It appeareth by the Councel of Chalcedon that they repented and reuoked their errour and so vpon sute made by the Bishoppes for them were admitted into the Councel and suffred to continue in their former roumes After the condemnation of Dioscorus and signification openly and solemnely made that al the Bishops agreed together in beleefe and after they had al subscribed to Dioscorus condemnation among other ioiful acclamations that were made according to the auncient manner this was one Iunenalis and Thalassius vvere not condeÌ„ned In the CouÌ„cel of ChalcedoÌ„ Actione 4 pag. 872. colum 2. vttered by the Bishoppes Ipsi quinque Episcopi fidei subscripserunt Sicut Leo sic sapiunt The fiue Bishoppes them selues haue subscribed to the faith As Leo the pope thinketh and holdeth so they thinke and hold Hereupon the noble Iudges and Senatours said Piissimus noster Imperator c. Our most godly Emperour vnderstanding your petitions hath permitted vnto your arbitrement to deliberate of Iuuenalis Thalassius Eusebius Basilius and Eustachius the reuerend Bishoppes and to determine what soeuer it shal please you Your reuerence therfore knowing that ye haue to make accompt vnto God of these thinges thinke with your selues what is to be done with them Then Anatholius the reuerend B. of Constantinople said Petimus eos intrare Our request is that they may entre into the Councel Then al the Bishoppes cried rogamus eos intrare c. we praie that they maie come in who beleeue like as the synode beleeueth and holde as the synode holdeth Assint qui subscripserunt epistolae Leonis ad Synodum Let them be here that haue subscribed vnto the Epistle that Leo sent vnto the Synode The Iudges and Senatours said IntreÌ„t Let theÌ„ come
my Confutation with these wordes It was not the Pope that armed Henrie the sonne against Henrie the fourth For it had ben absurde in reason and nature to make Henrie the seconde sonne to Henrie the fourth There needed not so great a Tragedie to be made for reproufe hereof Touching the pretensed leauing out of the worde Quodammodo out of S. Augustines saying Iudge reader of M. Iewels truthe by the truth in this pointe thus he aggrauateth the matter That in alleging of Liberatus I leafte out this worde quodammodo it was onely an errour For why I should of purpose doo it there was no cause specially that worde bearing in that place * Ye as si◠in that place the vvorde beareth great vveight and could not be leafte out but vvith foule corruption no greater weight But M. Harding alleging these wordes of S. Augustine Christus quodammodo ferebatur in manibus suis not of errour but as it maie be thought of set purpose leafte out Quodammodo as knowing that in that one worde rested the meaning of the whole How iustly M. Iewel excuseth him selfe and accuseth me for leauing out this worde Quodammodo To this I aunswere M. Ievvel in the Replie pag. 287. That you for your parte haue falsified Liberatus Maister Iewell you can not choose but Confesse That ye didde it by onely errour and ouersight and not of set purpose he that knoweth you as we knowe that be now acquainted with your humour can neuer beleeue it And whereas ye saie Liberatus cap. 13. that the worde quodammodo beareth smal weight in that place of Liberatus the Circumstance of the place and the storie of the time must needes conuince you See the Returne Fol. 155. a. in sequent Which thing hath benne already tolde you largely plainely and truly by M. Stapleton in his Returne of Vntruthes whiche you dissemble as if you went inuisible and were not espied for an Author of suche fowle Vntruthes Ye shal neuer be hable to scoure suche spottes out of your cote M. Ievvel most impudently belieth bothe S. Augustine and me touching this vvorde Quodammodo Wel yet ye thought to excuse this your falsehed by obiecting the like vnto me But Sir what if whiles ye go about to excuse your selfe you shewe your selfe worthy to be accused bothe of me and of S. Augustine too If S. Augustines wordes be as I alleged them then who hath belied me who hath belied S. Augustine Go to S. Augustine good reader and thou shalt finde the wordes truly by me alleged and quodammodo not by any falshed leafte out at al for in that place from whence I tooke his testimonie the worde is not nor in any parte of that Sermon which I quoted See the first Concion vpon the. 33. August in Psal 33. Concione 1. sub finē psalme There he saith thus Et ferebatur in manibus suis Hoc verò fratres quomodo posset fieri in homine quis intelligat Quis enim portatur in manibus suis Manibus aliorum potest portari homo manibus suis nemo portatur Quomodo intelligatur in ipso Dauid secundùm literam non inuenimus in Christo autē inuenimus Ferebatur enim Christus in manibus suis quando commendans ipsum corpus suum Math. 26. ait Hoc est corpus meum Ferebat enim illud corpus in manibus suis c. And he was carried in his handes This brethern how it might be done in man who can vnderstande For who is borne in his owne handes With the handes of others a man may be borne with his owne handes no man is borne Christe at his supper vvas carried and borne in his ovvn handes How it maie be vnderstanded in Dauid him selfe according to the letter we finde it not but in Christe we finde it For Christe was carried in his owne handes at what time commending his owne body it selfe vnto his disciples he said This is my body For he bore that body in his owne handes c. This testimonie M. Iewel doth directly ouerthrow your doctrine of the Sacramentaries A cleare testimonie for the Real presence and teacheth vs Christes body to be really and in deede present in the most blessed Sacrament For if that substance which is in the Sacrament after consecration were but a signe a token or a figure of Christes body as they of your secte and you doo teache what cause is there why S. Augustine should make so great so straunge and so wonderful a thing of it For if it were but the figure of Christes body that he helde in his hande when he said this is my bodie what wonder was it Dauid of whom there he speaketh could haue done that yea what is that man that can not beare the figure of his bodie in his handes But S. Augustine saith that Christe did beare his owne body in his handes when at the Supper he commended it vnto his disciples sayng this is my bodie Which thing neither Dauid nor any man could euer doo And here consider Reader how S. Augustine speaketh as if it were of purpose to take awaie al occasion of cauil from suche heretiques as should denie the real presence whiche M. Iewel doth The bodie that Christ commended and gaue vnto his disciples was saith S. Augustin ipsum corpus suum his owne bodie it selfe with which vehemēcie of expresse speache he excludeth al such Tropes Figures Significations Remembrances and Energies as do derogate from the real presence And that bodie illud corpus saith he Christ did beare in his handes Which was miraculous and aboue the power of Dauid or any other man Thus we see clearely that where S. Augustine speaketh of the truth and real presence of Christes bodie borne of Christ in his owne handes he speaketh plainely and precisely without this worde Quodammodo But in an other Sermon where he speaketh not specially of his bodie being verily borne in his handes but how and after what manner it was borne in his handes there to signifie the secretnes of the Diuine Mysterie he vseth this word Quodammodo August in Psalm 33. Concio 2. For hauing demaunded this question Quomodo ferebatur Christus in manibus suis How was Christ borne in his owne handes touching the manner thus he answereth Quia quum commendaret ipsum corpus suum sanguinem suum accepit in manus suas quod norunt fideles ipse se portabat quodammodo cum diceret hoc est corpus meum For when he commended and gaue vnto his disciples his owne bodie it selfe and his owne bloude he tooke into his handes that which the Faithful do know and he him selfe did beare him selfe after a certaine manner when he said this is my bodie In which saying the worde quodammodo asmuche to saie after a certaine manner doth not withdrawe our minde from beleefe of the true presence of the bodie borne in Christes handes but from conceiuing a carnal cōmon
morbum in ipso capite componit Ecclesiae in ipso vertice componit membrorum omnium sanitatem in Petroscilicet illo qui dixerat etiam si oportuerit me mori tecum non te negabo He cureth the sickenes of the whole body in Peter the very head it selfe of the Churche and in the very crowne of the head it selfe he setteth in order the health of al the members I meane in the selfe same Peter that had said Although I were driuen to die with thee Mat. 26. I wil neuer denie thee Iewel And the very Ordinarie Glose geueth these vvordes to S. Paule Non didici ab aliis tanquam à maioribus sed contuli cum illis Gloss Galat 2. tanquam cum amicis paribus I learned not of Peter and others as of my betters but I had conference with them as with my Equalles and frendes Harding Difference betwen learning and conferring together Had M. Iewel learnedly considered the difference The 24. Chapt. that is bewixt learning and conferring he would neuer for very shame haue alleged thâ—s place of the Ordinarie Glose In learning the teacher is of greater dignitie In conferring what soeuer the personnes otherwise are either of one dignitie or of diuers as touching the act of conference they make them selues equal as doth the King with his Counsel when they laie their heades together to boult out one mater Yet no man maie thereof reason that there is no difference of state betwixte the King and them of his Counsel or that euery of the Counsel is of equal state one with an other What neede S. Paule had of S. Peter to haue matters decided by his authoritie Actâ— 15. it appeareth in the Actes of the Apostles when he with Barnabas and others were sent from Antioche to Hierusalem to know whether the Gentiles were bounde to be circumcised But M. Iewels happe is alwaies to fal vpon places that bringe him smal worship or aduantage of his cause The Apologie Part. 2. Cap 3. Diui. 4. pag. 107. It vvas said indifferently to them al feede ye c. Confutation Wee denie that it was said indifferently to them al Feede ye Iohan. 21. yea or that it was said at al Feede ye To Peter and none elles was it said Feede my lambes Feede my sheepe .. Which worde of Feeding so singularly spoken to Peter in the presence of the other Apostles proueth that it was not indifferently said to al Feede ye Iewel Pag. 107. It forceth not greatly vvhat M. Hardinge denie or graunte hauing neither reason nor autoritie but onely his ovvne But if povver vvere not geuen indifferently to al the Apostles tel vs then vvherein is the â—ddes VVhat had Peter more VVhat had the others lesse Or vvhat olde Doctour or learned Father euer savv this difference Harding M. Iewel is tolde where he maie finde his demaundes answered and are also here answered in parte Though we tel you this The 25. Chapt. and proue it neuer so plainely yet stil wil you wrangle The Fathers haue infinite places for Peters preeminence aboue the rest as I haue partely here but more largely in my Answer Ansvver to your Chalenge shewed Article 4. Yea the selfe same places of the Fathers that you allege to proue the contrarie apparently within few lines after doo vtterly and in plaine wordes so refute you as your selfe knowe that for very shame you durst not to allege any whole place of certaine the olde Fathers but Iewishly lefte them circumcised as I haue shewed before in sundry allegations of S. Hierome of S. Chrysostome of S. Augustine and of others wherby the Reader hath a viewe and maie conceiue what you haue done in the reste And yet suche is your impudencie as though you walked inuisible and none were hable to detecte your false dealing you cal importunately vpon vs to shewe the oddes and to tel you what authoritie Peter had more then the reste And to declare what olde Father euer sawe any suche difference If it maie please you to reade the fourth Article of my Answere to your Chalenge M.D. Saunders booke entitled the Rocke of the Churche and M. Stapletons Returne of your Vntruthes vpon you in iustificatioÌ„ of Vntruthes which you impute vnto mee there maie you haue moe olde Fathers then ye haue yet or euer shal be hable to make reasonable answer vnto A most plain and euident testimonie of the Popes Primacie ouer al the vvorlde Chrysost homil 1. de poeniteÌ„tia In the meane time tel vs what S. Chrysostome meant when he said thus in his first homilie de poenitentia Ecclesiae primatum gubernationemque Petro per vniuersum mundum Christus tradidit Christ hath deliuered vnto Peter the primacie and gouernment of the Churche through the whole worlde When ye can shewe vs suche a plaine testimonie out of any Father that S. Peter had not the primacie and supreme gouernment deliuered vnto him by Christ you shal seeme to saie somewhat Iewel Pag. 107. 108. Christe saide equally vnto them al. Receiue the holy Ghoste whose sinnes ye forgeue they are forgeuen Goe into the whole worlde Preache the Gospel to euery creature These vvordes perceiue equally vnto al. Peter had no more the holy Ghoste no more povver to forgeeue sinnes no more commission to go into the vvhole vvorlde no more authoritie to preache the Gospel then others had Harding Why are you so copious in bye maters wherein I neuer striued with you and so barrein in the principal mater that lieth in controuersie betwixte vs Equal power was graunted to the Apostles to gather the Church this was neuer denied you But their power was not equal to rule the Church after that it was gathered from euery coaste of the worlde The which point you disproue not Iewel Pag. 108. M. Harding saithe To the Reste of the Apostles it vvas not said at al Iohan. 21. Feede ye To Peter and to none els vvas it said Feede my Lambes Feede my sheepe Yet Christe him selfe saithe Quod vni dico omnibus dico Marc. 13. That I saie to one I saie to al. Harding M. Iewel fouly falsifieth the worde of Christ him selfe What M. Iewel wil ye neuer leaue your falsifying The 26. Chapt. And are ye not a fraide to corrupte the holy Worde of the Sonne of God him selfe Is our cause so good and substantial that ye can make no shewe of truthe a-against it but by foule corruption of the Scripture Where is this written Be ye not a fraide for your aduantage to deceiue the worlde with Scripture of your owne making And were it true that S. Marke had so written how can you wreste it to your purpose Thus it is good Reader Our Sauiour gaue a general warning not onely to the Apostles but to al menne beleeuing in him to be watcheful against our Lordes comming which shal be suddeinely at suche time as they know not and therefore said Vigilate
debet esse iudex in causa propria The Pope maie not be iudge in his ovvne cause Harding The Pope maie be iudge in the cause of the Churche Though Leos Authoritie be not greate in his ovvne cause The .29 Chapt. yet in the cause of the Churche being so auncient so holy so learned a Father by your owne graunt it must be very great The wordes you bring are of your owne forging Wherefore as ye haue hitherto benne a forger of Doctours Scriptures the Canon lawe and Gloses so now you are become a forger of the Ciuile lawe With what wordes the lawe is written here anonne you shal see But be it true that Vlpian said for so you should haue said The Emperour alleged for Vlpian and not the Emperour as your skil in the lawe vnskilfully telleth vs no man maie minister lawe vnto himselfe Yet neither he not the Emperour euer forbad but that a man maie truely reporte of his owne matters Now Pope Leo that holy man and great learned Clerke in the place by me alleged doth not minister lawe vnto him selfe in his owne cause but for the better gouernement of the Churche and that peace and good order maie the better be kepte in the Churche reporteth a difference or diuersitie of power to be emong Bishoppes with likenesse of Order and honour as S. Hierome in his epistle to Euagrius coÌ„fesseth them to be of one merite and of one Priestehood In declaring whereof he speaketh of the right that the Bishoppes of the See Apostolique S. Peters successours ought to haue in the gouernment of the vniuersal Church through out the whole worlde This M. Iewel was not his owne priuate cause but the cause of the whole Churche in whiche he might geue iudgement But M. Iewel guilfully seemeth to put the case as though there had ben many Catholiques that called Pope Leo to lawe for vsurping the authoritie not dewe vnto him and as thoughe he had ben defendant against them al yea as thoughe he had stepte vp into his iudgement seate and there sitting as a Iudge in his owne mater had pronunced sentence for him selfe Whiche thing he did not nor euer was there any catholique man that laid any suche kinde of vsurpation to his charge he neuer stoode as defendant nor sate as Iudge in his owne cause but discretely and truely as occasion serued signified vnto the worlde his lawful authoritie and his â—uccessours as Kinges vse to doo in their titles of honour and stiles If M. Iewel wil calle his double wiued lawier vnto him and with him peruse the lawe that beginneth Qui Iurisdictioni praeest neque sibi ius dicere debet â— Qui iu risdiccioni ff de iurisdict omn. iudic neque vxori vel liberis suis c. whiche is the true lawe that he should haue alleged and wil consider that Princes Kinges and Emperours vse to doo in their owne causes by very order of lawe and if he wil therewith searche out the right meaning of the lawe L. in priuatis ff de inoffic testamen In priuatis iudicus pater filium vel filius patrem iudicem habere potest he shal finde both that he hath fondely vainely and rashly alleged a lawe that he vnderstoode not nor made any thing to his purpose but onely to fil vp paper with wordes and also that it is one thing to saie Nemo debet sibi ius dicere as he falsely allegeth the Lawe and that it is a farre other thing to saie Qui iurisdictioni praeest neque sibi ius dicere debet neque vxori vel liberis suis neque libertis vel caeteris quos secum habet For so is the lawe vttered by Vlpianus As for your marginal note out of the Decrees you shew how barrein and poore your mater is that for defence of it you are faine to runne for helpe to notes put in the margent of the Glose a very poore shifte God wote To your marginal note I answere The Pope as there the Glosse saith if there be a mater in lawe betwen him and an other man about a temporal thing ought not him selfe to be iudge in that case and to take the thing into his owne possession before it be tried whose it is but to choose Vmpeeres to sitte vpon it Now marke what followeth good Reader 16. q. 6. Consuetudo tamen si vult esse Iudex in causa Ecclesiae potest esse yet if he list to be a iudge in a mater concerning the Churche he maie be Certainely no one thing more concerneth the wealth tranquillitie and good order of the Churche then that whiche Leo intreateth of in the epistle 84. to Anastasius the Bishop of Thessalonica whiche in my Confutation to good purpose I alleged Iewel Pag. 111. Concil Aphricanum cap. 105. Superbum seculi typhuÌ„ It is vvel knovven that the Pope hath sought for and claimed this vniuersal authoritie these many hundred yeres Pope Innocentius vvas therefore reproued of pride and vvorldely lordelinesse by the vvhole Councel of Aphrica Harding The Aphrican Councel vntruly reported by M. Iewel The 30. Chapt. The Pope hath not sought for that whiche our Lorde gaue vnto S. Peter no more then S. Peter sought for it at Christes graunt The fame he maie iustely claime for so muche as it perteineth to the feeding and gouernement of Christes flocke and to the strengthning of the faithful as being the Successour of S. Peter That you saie of Innocentius is vtterly false He was not so reproued of pride and worldely Lordelinesse as more like a proud worldely Lordeling then an humble plaine handler of Goddes Truthe you saie Neither be those wordes superbum seculi typhum which you laie forth in your Margent to be founde in any Epistle of the Aphrican Councel to Innocentius nor be they spoken or written at al against Innocentius as you beare vs in hande Neither was Innocentius then a liue when the Aphrican Councel was holden but departed this life long before I graunt there is extant an epistle of the Aphrican Councel to the learned Pope Coelestinus in whiche Epistle Innocentius that blessed man is not once touched Neither was the charitie of that whole Councel so smal as to speake so il of a holy Bishop so long before departed The manner of those Fathers was to praie for suche specially for the Bishoppes of Rome deceassed rehearsing their names in their Masses and in no wise to reporte so il of them How be it in that whole epistle Pope Innocentius is not so muche as once named nor spoken of There we finde these three wordes fumosum typhum seculi that is to saie the smoky pride of the worlde or the vaine stoutenesse of the temporaltie but in a farre other sense and to an other purpose then M. Iewel pretendeth Whether he rightly vnderstode the place or no I haue good cause to doubte It seemeth that the Bishop of Rome in the cause of Appiarius whom
the Aphrican Bishoppes had deposed and remoued from his Bishprike for crimes not sufficiently proued sent his Clerkes that were his Agentes in Aphrica vnto certaine noble menne of the Countrie bearing offices vnder the Emperour to require their assistence if neede should so require whiche is as muche to saie as now we vse to speake as implorare brachium seculare to cal vpon the temporal power for helpe that iustice maie be executed With this the Aphrican Bishoppes did muche mislike and therefore besought Pope Coelestine that it should no more be donne but that maters might be ended by them being Bishoppes of that prouince without al intermedling of the laie power The wordes of the epistle are these Concil Aphâ—ican cap. 105. Executores etiam clericos vestros quibusque potentibus nolite mittere nolite concedereâ—ne fumosum typhum seculi in Ecclesiam Christi quae lucem simplicitatis humilitatis diem Deum videre cupientibus praefert videamur inducere Furthermore we beseche you that you sende no more your Clerkes that be your Agentes vnto any of the great menne and that you graunt to no suche thing hereafter leste we should seeme to bringe the smoky or vaine stoutenesse of the worlde into the Churche of Christe whiche to them that couete to see God sheweth forth the light of simplicitie and humilitie This is the Vntruthe you make vpon the Aphrican Councel in reprouing Pope Innocentius of pride and worldely Lordelinesse fully answered Now as vow haue brought an vntruth against the Pope out of the Aphrican Councel as you pretend so maie it please you to consider of the contrarie reported in the behofe of the Popes supreme authoritie in gouernment out of a Councel of Aphrica where we finde the same autoritie with these wordes auouched and acknowleged Maximè tustè debent Episcoporum iudicia negotia ecclesiastica ab ipso praesulum examinari vertice Apostolico Epist Stephani trium CoÌ„ciliorum Aphrica ad Damasum PapaÌ„ Con. 10. 1. cuius vetusta solicitudo est tam mala damnare quà m releuare laudanda Antiquis enim regulis censitum est vt quicquid horum quamuis in remotis vel in longinquo positis ageretur prouincijs non prius tractandum vel accipiendum sit nisi ad notitiam almae sedis vestrae fuisset deductum vt eius authoritate iuxta quod fuisset pronunciatum firmaretur The iudgementes of Bishops and ecclesiastical maters ought most iustely to be examined of him that is the Apostolike toppe or the crowne of the head of the Prelates whose care it is of olde as wel to condemne il thinges as to releeue good thinges For it hath ben decreed by the olde Canons that what so euer matter of the Bishoppes were in sute though it were in prouinces that be farre of from Rome it should not be ended before it were brought to the notice of that your See that it might be assured by the authoritie of the same right so as the sentence in iudgement should be pronounced By these wordes and by the whole Epistle of the Fathers of that Aphrican Councel assembled together vnder the Archebishop Stephanus it appeareth euidently how reuerently they submitted them selues and the determination of their causes and controuersies vnto the Pope and how farre of they were from the outragious sprite as to charge Innocentius or any other Pope with pride and wordely lordelinesse as M. Iewel hath fained Iewel Pope Bonifacius 2. condemned S. Augustine and al the said Councel of Aphrica and called them al heretiques and Schismatiques Inter decreta Bonifacij 2. Instigante diabolo for the same and said they vvere al * leade by the Deuil Pope Zosimus to maintaine this claime corrupted the holy Councel of Nice Harding Bonifacius 2. Fowly be lyed The .31 Chapt. It is pitie this man hath not a good mater For where he maketh so muche of nothing what would he doo had he somewhat But it is easie to saie muche in a naughty cause for one that is not a shamed to lie It can not be founde among the Decrees of Pope Boniface the .2 vnto whiche M. Iewel referreth vs nor any where els that he euer condemned that blessed and learned Father S. Augustine by name nor the Councel of Aphrica by any solemne sentence pronounced against them Verely that he called them al Heretiques and Schismatiques for the same that is to saie for the Popes vniuersal authoritie or for any thing and that they were lead by the Deuil it is an impudent lie The most greuous wordes he vttereth against them are these in an Epistle that he writeth to Eulalius the Patriarch of Alexandria exhorting him to reioise and to geue warning to other Bishoppes neare vnto him to reioise also and to geue God thankes for that the Churche of Aphrica was reconciled and returned to the obedience of the Churche of Rome from whence they had seuered them selues for the space of a hundred yeres vpon some stomake as it appeareth for that they would not admitte any Appellations of the Bishoppes of Aphrica to be made vnto the Pope whiche authoritie the Pope claimed by a Canon of the Nicene Councel CoÌ„cil Sardicen ca. 7 Bonifac. 2. Epist ad EulabiuÌ„ CoÌ„cil to 1. pag. 1057. and likewise by a Canon of the Councel of Sardica Aurelius Carthaginensis Ecclesiae olim Episcopus cum collegis suis instigante Diabolo superbire temporibus praedecessorum nostroruÌ„ Bonifacij atque Coelestini contra Romanam Ecclesiam coepit Aurelius some time Bishop of the Churche of Carthage beganne with his felowe Bishops the Deuil intising them to be proude against the Churche of Rome in the daies of Boniface and Coelestine my predecessours c. Of Heretiques and Schismatiques here is not a worde And though he said the Deuil intised them yet wil it not folowe that al they were leadde by the Deuil The Deuil intiseth many yea whom doth he not intise to euil Yet al be not leadde by the Deuil To be intised of the Deuil is one thing to be leadde is an other Touching Pope Zosimus saie what ye can folowing your Maister Caluine and when ye haue said al that ye can saie it is wel knowen ye shal neuer clearely proue Caluine Institut Cap. 1. that he corrupted the Councel of Nice For this I referre the Reader to M. Stapleton in his Returne of Vntruthes vpon M. Iewel Articulo 4. fol. 30. sequentib Peruse the place Reader and thou shalt finde thy selfe wel satisfied touching this pointe That whiche there is said in defence of Zosimus against their sclaunderous reportes M. Iewel should first haue disproued if he had minded in that mater to trie out the truthe and then haue laied it againe in our waie But he ful craftily dissembleth al and maketh as though he had not seene any such thing therby bothe to encomber vs with ofte repeating of one thing and the reader with hearing that whiche hath ben
whiche beare the name of Christians And to the Apostles Christe said Matt. 28. I am with you al daies vntil the worldes ende If he be with them til the ende they likewise are in the worlde til the worldes ende But they liued not so long in this worlde therefore it is meant that from age to age and from man to man Christe will haue alwayes some to sitte in the Chaieres and Seates of his Apostles by ordinarie Succession vntil the worldes ende Of this Succession Dauid in the person of Christ spake in spirite saying to the Church For thy Fathers Psal 44. Sonnes are borne vnto thee Thou shalt ordeine them the Chiefe Gouernours ouer al the earth The Church answereth I shal be mindeful o Lorde of thy name in euery Generation and Generation therefore the peoples shal geue praise and thankes to thee for euer and from age to age .. So that the cause why the Churche continueth are the Gouernours by God appointed vnto it and as the Churche continueth from age to age so do they gouerne from age to age For the Visible Flocke of shepe can not long lacke their Visible shepeheard at any time but that the Wolues wil enter in and disperse them a sunder Iewel VVhen Christ beganne to refourme their abuses and errours they said to him Luc. 20. Mark 11. Beda in Lucam li. 5. cap. 80. by vvhat povver doest thou these thinges and vvho gaue the this authoritie vvhere is thy Succession Vpon vvhiche vvordes Beda saith They vvould haue the people vnderstand for that he had no solenne Succession that al that he did vvas of the Deuil Harding See vvhat cōueiāce M. Ievv vseth to helpe his cause Scarse one line hath passed your handes into the whiche you haue nor conueied of your owne head the worde Succession Whereas neither S. Luke nor S Mathew nor S. Marke nor S. Paule nor S. Hierome nor the Pharisees nor Bede whom you allege vsed that worde at al. But to make your tale sound against Succession M. Ievv falsifieth al his testimonies you driue al to that point and thereby you falsifie euery place that you bring as euery man shal finde who doth conferre the matter with the Originals and so al your Defence standeth vpon fialsified Authorities But our cause God be praised for it is so strong Christes true Succession that we neede not to care though al that were true whiche you allege For albeit the Pharisees would not harken to Christes Succession yet in deede he Succeded lineally to al the Kinges and Patriarkes and thereby to the Priestes also of the best Order to wit of the Lawe of nature and not of the Law of Moyses whiche was an inferiour Lawe in respecte of that of Nature Christ therefore had not onely a most perfite Succession which is described in the Gospel from Adam til Ioseph the husbande of the Virgin Marie but also with that his Succession he stopped al the mouthes of his Enemies For thus he said to them VVhat thinke you of Christe that is of your Messias whom you looke for Matt. 22. VVhose Sonne is he They say to him the Sonne of Dauid Christ saith to them Psal 109. How then doth Dauid cal him Lorde in spirite saying The Lord hath said to my Lord sit at my right hand vntil I put thy enemies as a foote stoole vnder thy feete If then Dauid cal him Lorde how is he his Sonne And no man was hable to answer him a worde Neither durst any manne after that daye aske him any moe questions Here it is first to be noted that the Scribes and Pharisees knew Christ to haue a Succession from Dauid For his Sonne they said he must be Therefore M. Iewel in making the Pharisees to acknowledge no Succession of his hath corrupted the texte of the Gospel and vttered a great Vntruthe The Pharisees knew that Christe should succede in the very beste line but they would not attende nor consider how that Succession was now brought to passe in the Sonne of Marie who being of the howse of Dauid had miraculously brought forth Christe the perfite ende of the Lawe So likewise M. Iewel knoweth that the Churche of Christe must needes haue a perpetual Succession but he wil not consider how it is preserued chiefely in the Chaier of Peter Ioan. 21. to whom aboue al others the sheepe of Christ were committed Wel Christe then geuing the Iewes to vnderstand that he succeeded in the line of Dauid Christ not only the Sonne of Dauid but also the Sône of God would haue had them farther to consider that he also was the sonne of God and so shewed that he who was Dauids Sonne was also called the Lord of Dauid his Sonne by flesh his Lord by Godhed which thing did put them al to silence Euen so that weake mortal and some time miserable and sinful man whome sitting at Rome M. Iewel despiseth when he heareth him to be according to the gifte of God the Vicare of Christes loue as S. Ambrose calleth him in feeding his shepe Ambr. in cōmment in Luc. c. 24. and the Successour of the chiefe Apostle he is surely astoined at it and would be put to silence if he were not worse then a Pharisee For admitting that the Pope were not S. Peters Successour but onely one of the lowest Bishoppes of Christes Churche yet who would not woonder to see him keepe his Succession so notably fiften hundred yeres together wheras al the Patriarkes and thousandes of Bishops besides are so mangled and so brought to nought But now if wee adde hereunto that the same is euen by our enemies confession and euer was the first See how muche more ought they to woonder at the special prouidence of God in that behalfe Therefore euen as it was miraculous that the line of Dauid was so notably preserued in so many changes and captiuities of the Iewes right so may we say of the Bishoppes of Rome in suche sorte as smaller thinges doo imitate the greater and may in their manner be compared to the greater Iewel Cyrillus frameth the Pharisees vvordes in this sorte Cyrillus in Cathen in Luc. 20. Thou Being of the tribe of Iuda and therefore hauing no right by Succession vnto the Priesthood takest vpon thee the office that is committed vnto vs. Harding Here againe you adde these wordes hauing no right by Succession vnto the Priesthode of your owne head M. Ievv falsifieth Cyrillus by adding vvordes of his ovvne Howbeit euen there Cyrillus sheweth that Christe had right by Succession which you should not haue conceeled had you dealt truly For there it foloweth Sed si nouisses ô Pharisee scripturas recoleres quòd hic est Sacerdos qui secundùm ordinem Melchisedech offert Deo in se credentes per cultum qui legem transcendit O thou Pharisee Christe had right also by successiō if thou haddest knowen the Scriptures thou wouldest remember that this
is the Priest which after the order of Melchisedech offereth vp vnto God those that beleue in him by a seruice of godly worship which passeth the law Why would you not see those wordes that folowed in Cyrillus M. Iewel First Christ had a Predecessour in his Priesthod euen Melchisedech the high Priest Secondly Melchisedech is here declared to haue offered vnto God and that Christ in offering vnto God fulfilled his figure whereas you would haue Melchisedech to make his oblation to Abraham and not to God Thirdly the thing offered by Melchisedech was not only bread and wine but Abraham the Father of al beleeuers was offered vnto God by Melchisedech And so Christe in his last Supper offered vnto God not now bread and wine only but by his almighty power he turned the bread into the seede of Abraham and so he offered vnto God al the faithful which by reason of their head Christ being truly conteined vnder the formes of bread and wine were also signified present as members ioined with the head and so were al offered â—nto God Now whereas Christ was of the tribe of Iuda that made for him for out of that tribe the Messias was looked for by the Succession of the hâ—â—se of Dauid as the Pharisees them selues confessed And thereby they ought to haue vnderstanded that their Succession from Aaron should yeeld vnto the Succession of Dauid who had said that his Lorde Psal 109. and Sonne should be also a Priest after the order of Melchisedech And the Iewes knew that they ought to haue yelded to their Messias as to their chiefe head so long before promised If you can shew vs M. Iewel that as Christ was prophecied of to put the Priestes of Aaron out of their places so Luther Zuinglius or Caluine was prophecied of to destroie the Succession of S. Peter we yeeld vnto you But as the high Priestes and Pharisees were neuer bound to yeeld vnto any maÌ„ but only vnto Christ at his first comming so S. Peters Successours ought neuer to yeeld but only to Christ at his second comming And so by al meanes the Succession is perpetual and the true Religion neuer lacked it visible and cleare as this new Religion doth which for lacke of it can not possibly stand long no more then that of the Arians or of the Nestorians did Sap. 4. For Bastard slippes take not deepe rootes And therefore though they seeme to florish for a time yet soone they vanish away But the Tree which Christe hath planted that onely shal endure for euer That saie we is the Chaier of Peter with al suche Successions of Bishops as keepe them in the vnitie of Peters Chaier Iewel Chrysostome imagineth the Pharisees thus to say Chrysost in Math. Hom. 39. Thou art not of the house of Priestes The Councel hath not graunted it thee the emperour hath not geuen it thee Harding You know this author is not S. Chrysostome and yet stil you name him so not so much as addiÌ„g M. Ievvel very ofte allegeth the writer of opus imperfeâ—ctum in Mattheum for Chrysostome knowing him not so to be Hom. 39. in opere imperfecto whereby we might vnderstand whom you meane wherein of purpose you doo vntruly Now to the matter This writter whether he was Maximinus Arianus as some auouche or who so euer he was doth not onely shew that the Pharisees might haue had suche thoughtes but also he sheweth that the signes and the true priesthod agreed al and mette vpon Christ who had his power not of men but of God And farther he addeth there in this wise Sacerdos qui est secundùm Deum omnem Sacerdotem timet offendere quia omnes ex Deo fieri arbitratur quamuis ex hominibus sit factus Euery Priest which is of God feareth to offend any Priest bicause he thinketh euery Priest to be made of God although he be made of men But you M. Iewel thinke no Prieste at al now to be made of God To be made I say For you wil graunt none other Priesthod then that Spiritual and internal Priesthod which is common to wemen and children as wel as to men As for external Priesthood you thinke none at al to be made and therfore you despise not only euery Priest made of men but also you despise the highest Priest of al to wit the Bisshop of Rome and al his predecessours being aboue thirtie Martyrs and mo Confessours and blessed Saintes that haue sitten in that See and haue exercised their power ouer the whole Church as it is wel knowen of S. Clement Eleutherius Victor Stephanus and others The Pharisees wordes may be truly applied to you M. Iewel For you wil haue no spiritual power to be in the Church but that which the temporal Counsel or Emperour Laie Princes made gouernours of Christes Churche in al thinges aÌ„d causes or some like secular Prince doth geue For these officers haue you made the supreme gouernours of Christes Church in al thinges and causes He that saith in al leaueth out nothing at al wherein the temporal Prince is not supreme Gouernour Therefore in your Church it is a good argument thou maist not doo the office of a Bishop preach absolue or Baptize bicause thou art not admitted thereto by the Ciuile Magistrate I wisse they of the Clergie in the Primitiue Churche would rather haue suffered a thowsand deathes then they would haue submitted the power which Christe gaue to them vnto the laie gouernours who although Christ alloweth them and commaundeth them to be obeyed yet were not made by him maisters of his Religion and of his Churche The power must come from the Apostles by lawful Succession which shal rule Christes Church and not from the Emperour or from the Kinge muche lesse from a woman or from a childe hauing otherwise neuer so good right to thinheretance of a Crowne Iewel Thus to maineteine them selues in credite for that they had Succession and continuance from Aaron and satâ— in Moyses chaire they kept Christs quite out of possession Harding They would haue done so in deede M. Iewel but he did put them out of possession bicause they would haue had there priesthod to continue longer then the prophecies had foretolde and Goddes Counsel had determined For the lawe and Prophetes brought al to Christe and there was shewed that a change should be made by him Bring vs forthe the like Prophecies that Luther Zuinglius Caluine or that lusty Gospeller Beza must put the Pope out of possession and forthwith by like Miracle bring you to passe that the whole Churche I meane al them that professe the Faith of the Romaine Church be dispersed and destroied as Christ dispersed and destroied the Iewes then we wil leaue the Pope yea Christ also and follow you and them as our second Messias But if as from Aaron til Christes first coÌ„ming the High Priestes ought to haue yelded their possessioÌ„ to no man that euer came so from S.
mariages contracted in the case of a Simple Vowe and not of a Solemne Vowe Howsoeuer a man or a woman make a Vowe to liue the single life chaste and continent and do not solemnize the same either by entring into some Religion or by taking holy Orders if not withstanding the Vow they presume to marrie the marriage holdeth But if they marrie after they haue solemnized their Vowe by entring into Religion or by taking holy Orders the marriage is none at al M. Dorman defended against M. Ievvel Defence pag. 169. Dorman in his first booke fo 16. b. and therefore is to be dissolued bicause they haue made deliuerie of them selues before the Church into the handes of their Superiours and be not in state now to dispose of their personnes or bodies otherwise as being deliuered vp to custodie of perpetual chastitie Hereof it appeareth how litle cause you had M. Iewel to reproue M. Dorman for calling the mainteiners of marriage in this case the Deuils ministers In this case I say for he speaketh expressely of Priestes And therefore you may consider how wel it became you to say that by the iudgdment of our late Louanian Clergie S. Augustine is become the minister of the Deuil for these be the termes of your seemely eloquence Here therefore I returne vpon you M. Iewel those wordes which without cause you imagine S. Augustine to say vnto me Ye speake fondly and vnaduisedly and vnderstand not what ye speake Here to returne to M. Iewels order among other thinges M. Ievvel chargeth the holy Fathers vvith ouersight for zele and heat for answere vnto certaine places of the Fathers calling such kinde of marriage worse then Aduoutrie Inceste and Sacrilege he saith that such wordes haue proceded more of zele and heate of minde then of profound consideration and iudgement of the cause And so in effecte he reiecteth the holy and auncient Fathers as men vnworthy of credite But ô Lorde what Fathers Verely the chiefe and best learned S. Ambrose S. Hierome S. Basil S. Chrysostome S. Augustine Ah good Sir lacked these learned and holy Fathers consideration and iudgement and do you acknowledge it in your selfe and your companions O menne of deepe consideration and great iudgement that coulde so easily prouide them selues of wemen to geue the bridle vnto luste Among al other thinges that he bringeth in defence of his Companions vnlawful marriage this is the fardest from reason and hath least colour of learning that by his doctrine the vow of Chastitie is to be broken and that al Monckes Friers Priestes and Nonnes may lawfully marrie bicause il promises filthy Vowes and wicked Othes ought not to be kept For proufe that il Vowes are to be broken he allegeth Isidorus out of Gratian saying 22. quaest 4. In malis In malis promissis rescinde fidem in turpi vot◠muta decretum Quod incautè vouisti ne facias impia est promissio quae scelere impletur In an il promise breake thy faith In a filthy Vow change thy purpose What thou hast vnwarely vowed doo it not It is a wicked promise that is fulfilled with mischeefe Marc. 6. Act. 23. 22. quaest 4. Inter caetera Againe he saith It is not sufficient to say I haue vowed Herode vowed Iohn Baptistes head The Iewes vowed S. Paules death Hubaldus made a vowe that he would neuer helpe his owne mother or brethren were there neede neuer so great He allegeth also the 8. Councel of Toledo Where it was declared and decreed that wicked vowes ought not to be made and if they were made that in any wise they should not be perfourmed Where for example the vowe of Herode is mencioned Iudic. 11. and that of Iephte who through his vow thought him selfe bounde to sacrifice his daughter But what reliefe bringeth al this vnto his cause onlesse he be hable to proue that Chastitie is an il and a wicked thing as the murdering of S. Iohn Baptist and of S. Paul and as the sacrificing of Iephtes daughter was But how excellēt a thing chastitie is and how acceptable it is vnto God and of how much more merite it is then matrimonie both Christ him selfe in the Gospel and S. Paule in his Epistle to the Corinthians doo partly teache vs Mat. 19. 1. Cor. 7. and the holy Fathers in māner al haue most largely declared specially S. Basil S. Chrysostome S. Ambrose S. Augustine who haue written special Treaties of Virginitie Iouinians heresie and S. Hierom and S. Augustine disputing moste learnedly against Iouinian that helde opinion Marriage and Virginitie to be of equal merite to whose Heresie our fleshly Gospellers beare special fauour and maintenance As for the eight Councel of Toledo I maruel how he durst be so bolde Concil To letan 8. Cap. 7. in Epitom Married Priestes of olde times called Apostates as to allege it which maketh so litle for him touching the breache of a Godly Vowe and so much against him touching the marriage of them that haue taken holy Orders For the wordes of the Councel be these Si verò ad coniugia morésque seculi redire attentauerint omni Ecclesiastica dignitate priuentur Apostatae habeantur in monasterio donec vixerint sub poenitentia retrudantur In case they geue the attempte to returne vnto marriages and vnto the manners of the worlde let them be depriued of al Ecclesiastical dignitie and reputed for Apostates And let them be shut vp in a Monasterie to doo penaunce so long as they liue By this M. Iewel may see by what menne his married Brethren were called Apostates and by how many hundred yeres before he and I were borne I trust he wil beare the more with me if I happen to cal them by that their auncient name some times Concerning that you pretende to allege out of one Alphonsus de Castro Philippica 19. whom you say to be one of M. Hardinges greatest Doctours in good sooth he is no whit a greater Doctour of mine Alphonsus de Castro alleged by M. Ievvel in stede of Alphonsus Viruesius Episcopus Canariē then is the man in the Moone For in deede there is none of that name that euer wrote Philippicas It is one Alphonsus Viruesius M. Iewel a learned man of this present age Bishop of Canaria who writing against Philip Melanchthon called his Orations or Treaties Philippicas after the imitation of Demosthenes who so named those most eloquent Orations that he made against King Philip of Macedonia the great Alexanders Father A like errour to that you reproue me of so often and so bitterly by ouersight naming Iosue for the Prophete Osee Thus you see your selfe not cleare of the faulte you charge me so muche withal Neither is this your only ouersight of that sorte Howbeit that I alleged out of Osee vnder the name of Iosue maketh clearly with me and this you allege out of Bishop Viruesius vnder the name of the Obseruant Frier Alphonsus de
husband of one wife that the same order contineweth stil in the Church thereto he saieth in his secoâ—d homilie de patientia Iob non ea ratione quod id nunc in Ecclesia obseruetur Oportet enim omni prâ—rsus castitate Sâ—cerdotem ornatum esse S. Paule sayeth he required this not in consideration that the same be nowe obserued in the Church For it behoueth a Bishop to be garnished with al manner a chastitie Iewel Here commeth M. Hardinge in a lofte vvith Io Triumphe as hauing beaten dovvne al the vvorld vnder his feete And as being already in sure possession of the victorie he crieth out Impudencies Loude his foule Faultes and pietie Fittens And ful terribly chargeth vs like a Conqueroure to render oure selues and to râ—cante for sonne This nevve courage is suddainly blovven vpon him for that he thâ—â—keth vve haue intruded vâ—on his office and as he saieth haâ—e corrupted and falsified the holy Fathers But it vvere a vvorthie matter to knovve vvherein Forsoothe vve saie by the reporte of Sozâ—menus and Gregorius Nazianzenus that Spiridion and Gregorie Father to Nazianzen being bothe Married Bishoppes notvvithstanding theire Marriage vvere neuer the vvâ—rsâ— hable to doo theire Ecclesiastical offices but rather the better * The vvordes importe it not Here M. Harding of himselfe and freely confesseth these Holy Fathers vvâ—re neâ—â—r the vvorse hable to dâ—â— their offices For so muche th◠〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 importe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 But that they vvere the better hable to doe theirâ— offices â—â—cause of theire VViues that he dâ—nieth vtterly and herein he saieâ—h me are corrupters and falsifiers of the Fathers And thus the vvhole difference that is betvvene M. Hardinge and vs touching this matter standeth onely in these tvvo poore vvordes Rather the better and â—euer the vâ—â—rse Novv gentle reader I beseche thee also Reader to vveigh my Ansvver that thou maiest be the better hable tâ— iâ—dge betvvene vs I beseeche the indifferently vveigh these vvâ—â—des Gregorie Nazianzene hereof that is of the helpe Vntruth for then he vvas not Bishop but an infidel Nazian in Epitaphiâ— patris that his Father 〈◊〉 being the Bishop of Nazianzum had by his vvife vvriteth thus Illa quae data est Adamo c. Eua that vvvas geuen to Adam for a helper for asmuch as it vvas nâ—â— good for man to be alone in steede of a helper became his enemie It follovveth Meo autem Patri Mater mea data illi à Deo non tantum adiutrix facta est id enim minus esset miruÌ„ sed etiaÌ„ dux princeps verbo factoque inducens illuÌ„ ad res optimas Et aliis quidem rebus quamuis optimum esset subditam esse viro propter iura coniugii tamen in pietate non verebatur seipsam illi magistram exhibere My mother being geuen to my father of God became not onely his helper for that had ben no great vvonder but also vvas his leader and Captaine She vvas his Maistresse before he knevv vvhat the faith of Christ vvas yet they serue you to no purpose False He vvas not then Bishop of Nazianzum nor yet a Christian bothe by vvord and by deede trayning him vnto the best And albeit in other thinges it vvere beste for her to be subiecte vnto her husbande for the right of marriage yet in religion and Godlinesse she doubted not to becomme his Maistresse These vvordes M. Hardinge be plaine and cleare and vvithout fitton Gregorie Nazianzen sayeth that his ovvne â—â—â—ther vvas vnto his father the Bishop of Nazianzum a helper and a directour both by vvorde and deede to leade him to the best and that in al other thinges being his inferiour yet in â—eligion and Godlinesse she vvas his * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 VVhat a do vvould this fellovv make if he had me at a Vantage in deede that thus fareth vvithout cause as by the ansvver it shal better appeare Maistresse And yet mâ—st al these vvordes so open so plaine so cleare be drovvned vvith your simple distinction of Rather the better and neuer the vvorse Maie vve not novve allovve you vvith fauour to take al these that ye cal sitions lyes corruptions and falsifienges home againe vnto your selfe If you â—â—â—â—r crâ—â—le thâ—se tâ—â—â—ges before is 〈…〉 must remembre al truth must not be measured by your reading â–ª Harding To beginne with these last wordes as I require not al truth to be measured by my râ—â—ding M. Iâ—wâ—l so neither is it to be measured by your writing Whether I euer readde these thinges before or no it skilleth not Certaine it is where you readde al that ye haue here alleged out of S. Gregorie Nazianzene you readde also that whereby your false and vnreasonable assertion is confuted teaching that his Father being Bishop of NazianzuÌ„ learned the doctrine of Godlines of his wife Hauing read and seene the truth of this point in that very place and here conceeling it that you might not seeme confuted yea and so boldely auouching the contrarie how make you not al menne that know this witnesses of your falshode and impudencie M. Ievvels gay eloquence minister-like As for your vaine and light tauntes of my comming in a lofte with Io Triumphe of my terrible charging of you like a Conquerour of the new courage suddainly blowen vpon me and such other prety eloquence fitter for a Minister then for a sober man I can easily contemne No wise man that readeth my wordes for which ye ruffle so with me wil iudge you had iuste cause with suche sporte to delight your selfe Neither said I if you marke my wordes wel that you had corrupted and falsified the holy Fathers for that you said vpon reporte of Sozomenus and S. Gregorie Nazianzene that Spiridion and Gregorie Father to Nazianzene were for their marriage neuer the worse hable to serue God but rather the better which neuerthelesse is false but for that you speake it generally of a Bishop as though Bishops should doâ— that apperteineth to their charge the better if they married wiues For truth whereof I referre me to the place SpiridioÌ„ and Gregorie Nazianzenes father Those two holy Fathers were menne endewed with a singular and special grace and the example of so few is not to be drawen to be made a rule in general as I said in my Confutation Yet the most that is said of them is that they serued God neuer the worse by reason of their Marriage Againe M. Ievvel defeÌ„deth after his manner but fevv partes of the Apologie whereas I answered to euery parte of your Apologie in this place you defende but one thing by me confuted Neither to say the truth doo you defende the same but say what you were hable to shew some colour of a Defence This argueth that the other thinges you brought are fully confuted For elles why did you not defende them And this muche is the Reader here to be warned of by the waie That whereas most
of Christes flesh the onely meane of Resurrection to life And therefore your long talke is to no purpose which you vtter in this place They shal liue by the spirite of Christe who gaue them Faith and Charitie But doth not therefore S. Iohn speake also of real eating as though one effecte may not be wrought by diuers meanes concurring thereunto Ego saith Cyrillus id est Cyrill in Iohā li. 4. cap. 15. corpus meū quod comedetur resuscitabo eū I wil raise him that is to say my body which shal be eaten shal raise him Thus you see plainely that touching this point no lesse Clerke then Cyrillus teacheth the same that I said which you haue vniustly and rashly controlled as you haue done the reste of the Catholike Doctrine That matters of faithe and ecclesiastical causes are not to be iudged by the Ciuile Magistrate The. 14. Chapter Iewel Pag. 637. That a Prince or magistrate maie not lavvfully calae Prieste before him to his ovvne seate of Iudgement or that many Catholique and godly Princes haue not so done and done it lavvfully it is most vntrue Harding I haue tolde you M. Iewel Confut. Fol. 299. ae that the duetie of Ciuil Princes consisteth in Ciuil maters and euer said that Bishoppes ought to be obedient to Princes in suche cases whither so euer they cal them And if they make any temporal Decree the Bishoppe who hath temporal goodes vnder the Prince must obey without grudge Confut. Fol. 302. ae or gaine saying so farre as the Decree standeth with the honour of God But that in Ecclesiastical causes and maters of Faith mere temporal Princes haue any authoritie of them selues to cal Bishoppes and Priestes to their Seates of Iudgement or euer did it lawfully we vtterly denie Ambrosius lib. 5. Epist 32. Priestes only ought to be iudges ouer Priestes by Theosius S. Ambrose said to the Emperour Valentinian Nec quisquà m contumacem iudicare me debet quum hoc asseram quod augustae memoriae patertuus non solùm sermone respondit sed etiam legibus suis sanxit in causa fidei vel ecclesiastici alicuius ordinis eum iudicare debere qui nec munere impar sit nec iure dissimilis Haec enim verba Rescripti sunt Hoc est Sacerdotes de Sacerdotibus voluit iudicare Quinetiam si aliâs quoque arguerelar Episcopus morum esset examinanda causa etiam hanc voluit ad Episcopule iudicium pertinere Neither any man ought to iudge me as stubborne seing I affirme that whiche your father of most renoumed memorie not onely answered in worde but also established by his lawes that in a case of faith or any ecclesiastical order he ought to be iudge that is neither vnequal in office nor vnlike in right or authoritie For these are the wordes of the Rescripte That is he would Priestes to be iudges of Priestes And also if otherwise a Bishop were reproued and a cause concerning behauiour and manners were to be examined he would this cause of manners also to apperteine to the Bishoppes iudgement Vpon these wordes of Theodosius alleged and allowed by S. Ambrose An argument prouing that a Ciuile Magistrat maie not be iudge oner Priestes in causes ecclesiastical and matters of Faith thus I reason with you M. Iewel He can not be iudge of Bishoppes and Priestes nor cal them to his seate of Iudgement in Ecclesiastical causes and maters of Faithe that is vnequal in office or vnlike in right and authoritie But the Prince is vnequal to the Bishop in office and vnlike vnto him in right and authoritie For he hath no right nor authoritie to sacrifice to preache to binde to loose to excommunicate and minister Sacramentes Therefore the Prince can not be iudge of Bishoppes and Priestes nor cal them to his seate of Iudgement in any ecclesiastical cause or mater of Faith Againe no man hath authoritie ouer his superiour But the Bishop in maters of Faithe and Ecclesiastical causes is superiour to euery Prince Therefore in those causes the Prince hath no authoritie ouer the Bishop And if he haue no authoritie ouer him he can not cal him to his seate of iudgement Furthermore were it true that the Prince were equal with the Bishop in Ecclesiastical causes and matters of faith yet could he not cal him to his seate of iudgement ff ad S. Trebel L. ille § Tēpestiuum quia par in parem non habet potestatem bicause the equal hath no authoritie or power ouer his equal But to see M. Iewels arte in facing out this mater let vs consider the authorities that he bringeth to proue his purpose And bicause he blaseth this saying in the toppe of his margent with great letters VVhat it is to be conuēted before a Magistrate Spiegelius in verbo conuenire A Bishop conuented before the Magistrate let vs first define what it is to be conuented before a Magistrate The lawiers saie Conuenire est aliquem in ius vocare To conuent a man is to cal him into the lawe and so Conueniri coram magistratu est in ius vocari à magistratu to be conuented before a magistrate is to be called into the lawe by the magistrate To cal a man into the lawe is a iudicial acte proceding of superiour authoritie in him that is iudge both of the partie so called and also of the cause wherefore he is called As if the Maior of London would conuent any of the Citizens he must both haue iurisdiction ouer that Citizen and also authoritie to iudge in that cause for whiche the Citizen shal be conuented But no ciuil magistrate hath authoritie by vertue of his temporal office to be iudge our Bishoppes in ecclesiastical causes as it is before proued and shal hereafter appeare Therefore no temporal magistrate can conuent any Bishoppe or Priest before him in any Ecclesiastical cause But let vs heare M. Iewel Cod. de Episcopis et clericis L. Nullus Iewel Pag. 637. Iustinian the Emperour him selfe vvho of al others most enlarged the Churches priuileges saith thus Nullus Episcopus inuitus ad ciuilem vel militarem iudicem in qualibet causa producatum vel exhibeatur nisi princeps iubeat Let no Bishop be brought or presented against his vvil before the captaine or Ciuil Iudge vvhat so euer the cause be onlesse the Prince shal so commaunde it Harding Seing Iustinian as you saie of al others did most enlarge the Churches Priuileges is it likely that he would most of al others breake them And whereas he made a lawe Authent 83. Coll. 6. vt Clerici apud proprios Episcopos that Clerici apud proprios Episcopos conueniantur primùm Clerkes shoulde be conuented first before their owne Bishoppes in causa pecuniaria in a money mater and afterwarde before the Ciuil Magistrate if either for the nature of the cause or for some other difficultie the Bishop could not ende it yet he
addeth priuilegijs omnibus custodit is quae reuerend issimis Clericis sacrae praestant cōstitutiones al Priuileges kepte whiche the Emperours lawes doo graunt vnto the reuerend Clerkes And saith farther Si verò Ecclesiasticum sit delictum egens castigatione ecclesiastica mulcta Deo amabilis Episcopus hoc discernat nihil communicantibus clarissimis prouinciae Iudicibus Neque enim volumus talia negotia omnino scire ciuiles iudices quum oporteat talia ecclesiasticè examinari emendari animas delinquentium per Ecclesiasticam mulctam secundùm sacras diuinas regulas quas etiam sequi nostra non dedignantur leges If the faulte be ecclesiastical and neede ecclesiastical pounishment and discipline let the wel beloued Bishop of God iudge and discerne it and let not the honorable Iudges of the Prouince intermedle with it at al. For it is not our pleasure that Ciuil Magistrates haue at al the examination of suche matters seing suche matters must be examined ecclesiastically after the order of the Canons and the offenders must be punished by Ecclesiastical discipline according to the holy and diuine Canons whiche our lawes doo not disdaine to folow Seing Iustinian hath so ordeined no wise man that hath read his Lawes wil saie that either he in fringed those Priuileges or as one contrarie to him selfe made a lawe against the Liberties of the Churche without any mention of the former that he him selfe had made Wherefore Iustinian in the Law that you reherse M. Iewel is to be vnderstanded to speake of ciuil and tēporal cases and that in those cases no Bishop should be brought before the Lieutenant and Ciuil Magistrate except the Prince so commaunded it Now whereas you vpon those wordes say that a Bisshop maie be conuented before a Ciuil Magistrate we graunt and euer so said that in Ciuil causes and temporal maters of which Iustinian speaketh Bishops may be cōuented before a temporal Magistrate But that is not our question But this is that which we say The very point of this Question that it is not lawful for a Prince to cal a Priest to his seate of iudgemēt in Ecclesiastical causes And in this your owne authour Iustinian condemneth you He saith as you heard before Autent 83. col 6. vt Clerici Si ecclesiasticū sit delictū c. If the faulte be ecclesiastical let the welbeloued Bisshop of God iudge and discerne it Let the honorable Iudges of the Prouince intermedle nothing at al with it For we wil not that Ciuil Magistrates haue the examination of suche matters And againe Cod. de Episco clericis L. Clericus Si verò crimen sit Ecclesiasticum episcopalis erit examinatio castigatio If the faulte be Ecclesiastical the examination and pounishing of it shal apperteine vnto the Bisshoppe But peraduenture you wil replie to this and saie that Iustinian in the lawe by you rehersed speaketh not onely of Ciuil but also of ecclesiastical causes and willeth a Bishop in qualibet causa in any cause to be conuented before the temporal magistrate if the Prince do so commaunde If you or your lawier make this obiection we answer that it can not be shewed out of al Iustinians lawes Anthent 83. col 6. vt Clerici that he willed a Bishop or Prieste to be conuented before a temporal Magistrate in an Ecclesiastical cause or to be pounished for any hainous offence before he were degraded of his Bishop And hereof if you had but a meane smattering in the Ciuil Lawe you could not be ignorant Besides that already alleged you find in the Code this Lawe Cod. de Episco Clericis L. Statuimus Statuimus vt nullus Ecclesiasticā personam in criminali quaestione vel ciuili trahere ad iudicium seculare praesumat contrae cōstitutiones imperiales canonicas sanctiones We ordeine and decree that no man presume to bring any Ecclesiastical person to the seate of iudgement of any seculare Magistrate in a criminal or ciuil cause contrarie to the Imperial Constitutions and canonical Decrees By this you see that it is against both the Emperours constitutions and Canons of the Churche that a Bishop should be conuented before a Magistrate in an Ecclesiastical cause As for the vantage which you seeke in those wordes In qualibet causa in any cause it is none at al. Had not you benne blinded with malice and your lawier with ignorance you might haue learned A Maxima amōg the lavviers that it is a Maxima and a Principle with the lawiers that Leges tales indefinitè loquentes intelligendae sunt secundùm aliam legem speciatim loquentem Such lawes speaking indefinitely must be vnderstanded by an other lawe that speaketh specially and particularly Wherefore seing the lawe Clericus in the Code and the Antentike vt Clerici in the new Constitutions make special mention that Bishops and Priestes should not be conuented before Ciuil Magistrates in Ecclesiastical causes and permitte no temporal Iudge to meddle with Ecclesiastical personnes excepte it be in Ciuil matters and that with a Limitation and a Prouiso also it had ben your parte and your blinde Lawiers also to haue vnderstanded those wordes In qualibet causa in any cause spoken there indefinitely by the other Lawes that speake more specially But then had you lost a peeuish sophistical Argument and menne had not knowen your worthy skil in the Lawe which no doubte wil appeare great by your practise Iewel pag. 637. 638. The Emperour Martianus cōmaundeth if the cause be criminal that the Bisshop be conuented before the Lieutenant vt coram Praeside conueniatur Harding For your credite touching Martianus commaundement you referre vs to the Code of Iustinian L. Si qui ex consensu de Episco Audient L. Cum Clericis de Episco Clericis As for the first you may tel your lawier that he hath fouly deceiued you and therefore is not worthy to haue his fee. That lawe Si qui ex consensu Cod. de Episcop Audient was neuer made by Martianus the Emperour but by Arcadius and Honorius and requireth neither Bishop nor Prieste nor Clerke to be conuented before the Lieutenant but declareth that if any by mutual consent wil haue their matter debated before the Bishop as an arbiter it shal be lawful for them so to do as euery man that either considereth the law or readeth the Summe set before it may easily see M. Ievv forgeth As for the other lawe Cum Clericis although it be Martianus decree yet hath it not those wordes vt coram Praeside conueniatur that the Bishop be conuented before the Lieutenant nor any clause or sentence sounding to that pupose For trial whereof I referre me to the booke and to any indifferent man that can reade and vnderstande it But suppose it to be true that the Emperour Martianus had geuen suche a commaundement what could it aduantage your cause M. Iewel You should proue
that a Christian Prince may lawfully cal a Bishop to his Consistorie for matters of Faith and Ecclesiastical causes And not hable to do that you tel vs like a Trifler that if the cause be criminal a Bishop may be conuented before the Lieutenant And in so doing you prooue that which no man denieth As Cranmare Archebishop of Cantorburie was called to the Princes Consistorie Cranmare and imprisoned in the Tower for treason against the Quenes Maiestie and afterwarde degraded and burned at Oxford for heresie So any Bishop for like treason or like hainous and criminal offence may not only be summoned to the Princes seate of Iudgement but also be cast into prison and after degradation according to the Canons be depriued of his life This we do not denie But that whiche we denie and you should prooue for I must tel you one thing often bicause you are alwaies forgetful of the very point that is in controuersie is that in matter of Faith and in Ecclesiastical causes a Prince may cal Bishops to his consistorie as their superiour and gouernour in Ecclesiastical causes This is the matter in controuersie betwen you and the Catholiques M. Iewel Let vs heare how substanrially you proue that Iewel Pag. 638. Pope Innocentius 3. him selfe confesseth De maior obedient ca. 2. Innocent 11. q. 1. Cleric nullus that the Pope may make a laie man his Delegate to heare and determine in Priestes causes The like hereof ye maie finde in your ovvne Glose Papa laico delegat causam spiritualem The Pope committeth the hearing of a spiritual mater vnto a laie man Harding If any reason may be forced vpon the Authoritie of Innocentius and the Glose to your purpose it is this The Pope may make a Laie man his Delegate to heare and determine Priests causes Ergo Bishops and Priestes may be conuented before the Ciuil Magistrate in Ecclesiastical causes But to vnrippe the rudenes of this Argument imagine M. Iewel that you were infamous for Simonie and accursed for extorsion and vniuste exactions amongest the clergie of Sarisburie Dioces vnder the name of a beneuolence towardes the setting vp of your howse And that the Metropolitane hearing of it fearing least great dishonour should rise to your Person and infamie to the Gospel as ye cal it would haue the mater examined and to that ende sendeth a commission to the Maior and Bailiffes of Sarisburie and maketh them his Delegates to examine and enquire of your doinges and that the Maior and Bailiffes vppon vertue of that Commission from the Metropolitane conuent you before them Al this then imagined to be true shal it be said that M. Iewel was conuented in a cause of Simonie and extorsion before the Maior and Bailiffes of Sarisburie as Maior and Bailiffes of Sarisburie or as commissioners and delegates from the Metropolitane If you confesse that you were conuented before them as the Metropolitanes Delegates then must you confesse that you were not conuented before them as Maior and Bailiffes of Sarisburie and mere laie Magistrates In like manner when the Pope maketh a Laie man his delegate to heare and determine Priestes causes the Priestes cause whiche is hearde and determined by that Laie man so delegated by the Pope can not be said to be heard and determined by a Laie man as a Laie man but by the Popes Delegate And seing Extr. de offic Deleg c. Sanè Delegatus gerit vices delegantis a degate susteineth the steede of him that geueth him commission the Bishop or Priest who is conuented before the Popes delegate shal be said to be conuented before the Pope him selfe and not before the Laie Magistrate as a mere Ciuile and temporal Magistrate M. Ievvel begileth his Reader vvith false allegations But what meane you M. Iewel thus to begyle your Readers with false allegations Innocentius hath no such wordes as you reporte de Maior obedient cap. 2. Innocent Neither is the Decree that is there registred the Decree of Innocentius but of Gregorius and nothing at al God wote to the purpose for which ye allege it More ouer the Glose brought out of the 11. cause and first question saith not Papa Laico delegat causam spiritualem the Pope committeth the hearing of a spiritual mater vnto a Laie man but Si Papa if the Pope doo committe a spiritual mater to a Laie man And what then M. Iewel Forsooth in that case a Clerke maie be conuented before a temporal Iudge But that temporal Iudge is the Popes delegate and deriueth his authoritie from him as the Commissioners in London haue their authoritie from the Queene So that the exceptions there alleged by the glose proue ius commune esse in contrarium that the common lawe is to the contrarie that is that no Bishop or Prieste ought to be conuented before a Ciuile Magistrate Iewel Pag. 638. Yea further ye shal finde euen in the Popes ovvne Decrees that the Pope hath committed a spiritual mater in a cause of Simonie to be heard 2. q. 5. Mennam and ended by a vvoman and that Brunichildis being a vvoman by Vertue of the Popes commission summoned a Bisshop to appeare and solemnely to make his purgation before her Harding If the Pope did euer committe any spiritual cause to a woman VVhat vvas that Brunichildis had to do in the cause of Menna by coÌ„missioÌ„ of S. Gregorie as you tel vs he did to Brunichildis Queene of Fraunce then was the Queene of Fraunce by your Confession the Popes commissioner in that cause and Delegate to heare and ende that mater of Simonie But what if we can not finde in the Popes Decrees to whiche you referre vs that the Pope euer committed a spiritual mater in a cause of Simonie to be heard and ended by a woman and that Brunichildis had neither commission from the Pope to summon a Bishoppe neither euer summoned a Bishop to appeare and solemnely to make his purgation before her What then shal we say but that M. Iewel is a shamelesse falsifier a deceiuer of al that beleeue him The wordes of that Decree being the woordes of S. Gregorie Grego lib. 11. epist 8. 2. q. 4. Mennam stand thus Mennam verò reuerendissimum fratrem coëpiscopum nostrum post quà m ea quae de eâ—… dicta sunt requirentes in nullo inuenimus esse culpabilem qui insuper ad Sacratissimum corpus beati Petri Apostoli sub iureiurando satisfaciens ab ijs quae obiecta fuerant eius opinioni se demonstrauit alienum reuerti illum purgatum absolutúmque permisimus quia sicut dignum erat vt si in aliquo reus existeret culpam in eo canonicè puniremus Ita dignum non fuit vt eum adiuuante innocentia diutius retinere vel affligere in aliquo deberemus Purgationem tamen antè duobus sibi sacerdotibus iunctis vbi accusator cessauerit eundem ex se praebere tuo commisimus arbitrio We
licensed our most reuerende brother and felowe Bishoppe Menna to returne home after he had made his Purgation and was assoiled of the crime laid to his charge specially sith that after long enquirie made concerning those thinges whiche were reported of him we founde him culpable and blame worthy in none And he him selfe besides making satisfaction vppon his othe at the moste holy body of the blessed Apostle S. Peter hath declared him selfe to be free and cleere from al those thinges that were obiected to impaire his good name For as it was conuenient that we should seuerely haue pounished him according to the Canons if he had benne giltie in any thing So it was not meete that we should staie him or trouble him any longer seeing his owne innocencie did so helpe him Notwithstanding we haue geuen charge that he him selfe taking before two Priestes vnto him make his purgation when the accuser hath geuen ouer his action before you at your arbitrement Thus farre S. Gregorie But this proueth not your intente and purpose M. Iewel For I beseeke you Sir M. Iewels forgeries where is it said in al this Decree that the Pope committed a spiritual mater in a cause of Simonie to be heard and ended by a woman Where is it said that Brunichildis being a woman by vertue of the Popes commission summoned a Bishop to appeare and solemnely to make his purgation before her In the texte it is not nor in the glose that you so solemnely allege Or if it were had your lawier forgotte to tel you or were you so simple that you could not conceiue that whiche is commonly said Maledicta est Glosa quae corrumpit textum it is a cursed glose that corrupteth the texte But seeing you builde so muche vpon the Glose let vs see what the Glose saith Iewel 638. In your Glose vpon the same place it is noted thus Fuit tamen hoc nimium papaliter dispensatum The Pope vvas to Popelike in this dispensation Harding To let passe your scoffing and ministerlike interpretation let vs come to the matter M. Ievvel corrupteth his Glose by nipping avvay the ende of the sentence alleged What dispensation is it that the Glose speaketh of Why suffred you not the authour of the Glose to tel forth his whole tale Ye alwaies make your aduantage among the vnlearned of falsifying and corrupting your testimonies It followeth there Quòd Episcopus expurgatus coram Papa cogitur adhuc coram muliercula se purgare that a Bishoppe hauing made his purgation before the Pope is forced to purge him selfe before a woman And this is the dispensation that the Glose misliketh as to popelike according to your interpretation But if either the Gloser had considered the reason that moued the Pope or you that followe the Glose would haue marked the litle cause that standeth by the Glose in the margent in the last printe of Paris where it is said hoc totum ideo fuit vt fama eius clarior appareret al this was done by the wisedom of S. Gregorie to the ende his good name might appeare more cleare neither he would so rashly haue controlled S. Gregories order in that behalfe nor you so fondly alleged it And of a worde spoken in ieast as the Canonistes sometimes speake you take a weake holde as of a matter spoken in great soothe Notwithstanding you wil saie the wordes of the Decree are plaine tuo cōmisimus arbitrio We haue geuen a commission to your arbitriment that he purge him selfe before you If you make this obiection we answer that if the wordes were exactely sifted by the true and grammatical construction you would hardly maineteine this interpretation But I wil not contende about wordes Let it be as you would haue it Let Brunichildis haue a commission from the Pope to see that Bishop Menna made his purgation before her Your purpose and saying is nothing proued by it For first you saie The Pope committed a spiritual mater in a cause of Simonie to be heard and ended by a woman And this is a vaine tale and vntrue fansie of yours not hable to be gathered by any worde of that decree For the cause of Simonie whereof Menna was accused was heard and ended by the Pope and he not founde faultie in it was absolued and sent home And a cause once heard and determined by the Pope is not wonte to be committed afterward to the hearing and determination of a woman After this as though this lie had not ben lowde ynough you tel vs that Brunichildis being a woman by vertue of the Popes commission summoned a Bishop to appeare and solemnely to make his purgation before her and for your credite you referre vs in the margent to Gratian. 2. q. 5. Mennam It is 2. q. 4. But that Brunichildis did either summon a Bisshop to witte Menna to appeare or required him to make his purgation before her it is not to be found there nor any where elles that M. Iewel hath alleged or can allege as I doubte not For Brunichildis Queene of Fraunce being so holy so vertuous so religious a Lady as S. Gregorie reporteth she was it is to be presupposed that she would not disquiet a good and an innocent man nor put him to farther trouble who when his cause was heard and ended by the Pope was founde in nullo culpabilis blame worthy in nothing that was laid to his charge by the euident testimonie of S. Gregorie declared in his epistle sent of purpose to Queene Brunichildis Wherefore M. Iewel these fantasies of yours are but wanton and vaine emploied to none other ende but to deceiue the vnlearned Iewel Pag. 638. The Emperour Constantinus vvrote thus vnto the Bishoppes that had ben at the Councel of Tyrus Cuncti Socrates lib. 1. c. 34 quotquot Synodum Tyri compleuistis c. Al ye that haue ben at the Councel of Tyrus come vvithout delaie to our campe and shevve me plainely and vvithout colour hovv vpprightly ye haue delte in iudgemement and that euen before my selfe vvhom ye can not denie to be the true seruant of God Harding These letters were written by the Emperour Constantinus to Arian Bishoppes that had made a false conuenticle or conspiracie and not a lawful Councel M. Iewel at Tyrus and they were written vnto them vppon the complainte of S. Athanasius that worthy Patriarke of Alexandria made both against the iniuries and violences that Flauianus Dionysius the Emperours Lieutenant attempted against him and also against the sclaunders that his enemies the Arians had wrongfully laied to his charge And these sclaunders were not of Faithe maters but that Athanasius had murdered one Arsenius Ruffin in Histor Eccles li. 10. cap. 17. Socrates Li. 1. c. 29. and had committed a foule rape with a woman and that with an Arme cut of from Arsenius bodie he practized Witche crafte for the whiche crimes these Arians sought Athanasius death Wherefore no marueile if that good Emperour being
non castè tamen cautè If ye doo it not chastely yet doo it charily Harding You mistake your marke M. Iewel naming Otho Bonus for Otho They were diuers menne as you might haue sene in the Constitutions that you allege wherein your skil in the Canon lawe appeareth If you had laid forth the place wholly as true and vpright dealing requireth it should soone haue appeared vpon how smal a matter you pike so great a quarrel Thus it is Iohannes de Athon who wrote the Glose vpon the Constitutions Legatine of Otho hauing declared how a Clerke by which worde is not meant onely a Priest as you alwaies interprete but any that is within Orders be they the lesser or the greater is to be pounished for hauing a Concubine at length after his manner demaundeth this question Sed quid dices de punitione ipsarum Concubinarum si ad suam excusationem coram Iudice ecclesiastico se asserant publicas Meretrices quaestu corporis viuentes But what wilt thou saie of the pounishment of the Concubines them selues if for their excuse they saie before the ecclesiastical Iudge that they are common whoores lyuing by the gaine of that filthy seruice of their body Now immediatly there foloweth the answer which M. Iewel bringeth against the Canonistes not without a litle point of falsifying by nipping awaie this word Hoc an ordinarie marke of his workemanship Hoc nipâ—e avvaie by M. Ievv a vvorde of important siâ—uification Videtur quòd Hoc crimen Meretricij sub dissimulatione transire debeat Ecclesia It seemeth that the Churche ought to passe ouer this Crime of whooredome vnder dissimulation that is to saie to dissemble it The cause why the Churche ought to dissemble this crime in suche wemen as professe publique whooredom whiche the author of that Glose saith not precisely but speaketh it as an opinion and as a thing that seemed to some menne reasonable I had rather M. Iewel heard it of an other man then of me Certainely he maie iudge it is not altogether without cause that al Christendome ouer whereas al other wemen be pounished for the sinne of the flesh onely the common and publique whoores be let alone vnder dissimulation Yet it argueth not that simple fornication is made no sinne If M. Iewel would haue read further in that Glose he should haue founde these expresse wordes by whiche the Canonistes are cleered and he further charged with a false sclaunder Dic tamen quòd hoc peccatum prosequi debet Ecclesia vt mortale Ibidem Yet saie thou by whiche wordes he signifieth his owne opinion that the Church ought to pursue this sinne Vnde illud vulgare Si non castè tamen cautè as deadly sinne Whereof it foloweth that continuing in suche life they might not be admitted to the Sacramentes of holy Church As for those other wordes whiche we finde in the Glose Si non castè tamen cautè they are there rehersed as a common saying not as a rule or a precepte of the Canon Lawe neither perteine they to clerkes more then to the laie sorte The circumstance of the place considered and weighed al thinges maie seme there to be wel and discretely said Of two that committe Fornication he doth lesse euil that dooth it secretely then the other that doth it openly For the open fornicatour increaseth the offence by his il example by the offence the people take of it and by the contempte of his owne fame and good name Of suche a one it is said there out of the Lawe quòd famae suae prodigus etiam quoad homines suspensus est licet occulta fornicatio quoad Deum turbet bonam conscientiam that being a recheles loser of his owne fame he is suspended also as concerning the estimation of menne although the pryuie Fornication doo trouble a good conscience as touching God So then if it be an il thing a man to be suspended among menne and to lose the fame of his honestie Crudelis est qui famam contemnit if he be accompted cruel and desperate that careth not for his good name if it be dangerous to the soule also to prouoke others to offend by il example al these euilles folowing the publique and open fornicatour though secrete fornication ought also hartily to greeue and vexe the conscience before God how shal not that vulgare saying seeme to geue good counsel Si non castè tamen cautè whereby a man is not animated at al to doo il but if he hap to do his vncleane lust If not chastely yet charily or wil not be staid from it is admonished to doo it charily though not chastly And if there were any il meaning in this vulgare saying as there is not though it maie be abused to cast some shadow vpon euil lyuers the iudgement of the Canonistes were not to be reproued thereof but the custome of the worlde from whence it proceeded Iewel Pag. 360. Likevvise saith Petrus Rauennas one of your notable Canonistes Extra de immunitate EcclesiaruÌ„ Pet. RaueÌ„nas vpon the Decretalles Quamuis tactus oscula sint praeludia incontinentiae in Laicis secus tamen est in Clericis Nam Clericus praesumitur ista facere pro charitate bono Zelo. Notvvithstanding handeling and kissing in laie Personnes be the occasions or beginninges of incontinent behauiour yet in Priestes it is far othervvise For a Priest is presumed to doâ— these thinges of Charitie and of good zele Harding Yet Petrus Rauennas saith not that Simple Fornication is no sinne That is the thing you haue taken in hande to proue against the Canonistes When touche you the point In Italie where this lawier liued to kisse a woman is taken for a certaine earnest of a wanton bargaine promised and therefore openly men kisse not women at first and last salutations as the vse is in England But bicause that thing maie be in it selfe diuers according to the diuers manners of Countries and therefore maie be deemed good nolesse then euil menne being bounde to iudge the best of that whiche maie be wel done or is at least indifferent the Lawier considering the vertue and degree of a Clerke saith that an euil presumption is not lightly to be taken thereof but willeth it to be taken for courtesie and charitable salutation as it is taken in England and in sundry other countries Extra de Prebend c. nisi in principio For the qualitie and state of the person doth oftentimes purge the suspicion that otherwise is woont to rise of any acte Let vs heare what other Gloses this Gloser bringeth for his purpose Iewel Pag. 360. 11. quaest 3. Absit in Glossa Likevvise it is noted in your Glose Si Clericus amplectitur mulierem Laicus interpretabitur quod causa benedicendi eam hoc faciat If a Priest imbrace a vvoman a laieman must iudge of it thus that he dooth it to the intent to blesse her VVhere also ye
holy Images in Churches and against the prâ—â—acie of his Successour to whom louing Christ more then the reste of the Apostles Iohan. 21. it was specially said feede my sheepâ— whiche are the weightiest and chiefe among al the Articles of his Chaleâ—ge and whereof al the restâ— in manner doo depende Al this is fully confuted by M. D. Sandeâ— by M. Doâ—man by M. Stapleton and by mee As for his Sophistrie and manifolde Arte wherewith he enuâ—igleth the vnlearned muche like to that by which Mountebanckes gete their lyuing and sundrie craftie false and absurde practises M. Rastel hath truly diligently and wittily detected them in three bookes written to that purpose in whiche by the very Title of eche booke he geueth al menne warning to beware of M. Iewel When I considered these chiefe and most special Articles of the Replie so wel and sufficiently confuted and the rest of that Volume to conteine nothing els but needelesse heapes of diuers Writers sayinges either true and of vs confessed or fowly falsified and corrupted and wrested to a sense quite contrarie to the authours meaning or otherwise not perteining to the proufe of any thing by the Catholiques denied or to the disproufe of any thing by them affirmed I thought I might doo wel to laie a side the Replie for a time and to go in hande with some answer to the pretensed Defence of the Apologie Here what should I doo Many as I vnderstand haue wisshed that I made a ful answer to the whole and to euery parcel of it and for the better perfourmance thereof they would allow me a yere or two more This desire requireth M. Iewels great Volume to be printed againe that is to saie the Apologie my Confutation and the texte of the Defence and further so muche of my Confutation to be added as in printing his booke of set purpose he hath caused to be cut of from the reste and to be suppressed to the intent a great parte of the best proufes brought against him should not be seene in his booke which being added would amounte to one good parte the whole Confutation being diuided into three This ought to be done of necessitie if an answer to the whole were to be made For whereâ—â— al my Treatie must rise vpon the wordes of the Apologie and of my Confutation and of the Defence how should it be vnderstanded how iustly I impugne the Apologie and the Defence and mainteine my Confutation onlesse the places were laid forth before the Readers eies The booke then of the Defence being alreadie so great The chiefe pointes of the DefeÌ„ce being ansvvered for vvhat causes a ful ansvver to the reste vvas thought not necessarie as it is by that time a iuste answer should be added vnto it euery man that hath any iudgement in these thinges maie soone conceiue of what an huge quantitie my new printed Volume would be In deed were euery idle point answered and treated of at ful it would seeme to matche yea farre to ouermatche Foxes Huge Booke of his false Martyrs Verely to saie what reasonably I maiâ— saie neither can I in three yeres doo the worke of seuen yeres nor with a fewe Dallers defraie the charges of foure or fiue hundred poundes nor can I finde in my Conscience to bring the weake into danger by setting out suche an heretical booke bicause it is not possible but that among so many heresies and erroneous pointes some wil escape my penne vnrefelled were I neuer so diligent Nor thinke I it good and profitable in that vnfruitful trauaile to spende so great a parte of my later yeres Vnfruitful I meane bicause I shal be driuen for the most parte to bestow paines about light scoffes Cauilles wranglinges and vaine trifles worthy to be contemned rather then to be answered Briefly neither haue I liste to set out so huge a Volume which I beleeue very fewe would bye I haue therfore thought vpon an other waie wherein I hope to doo more good to others sure I am that to my selfe I shal doo lesse hinderance in respecte of time and health and neuerthelesse perfourme that whiche in this case is chiefly requisite Whereas then M. Iewelles pretensed Defence maie be reduced vnto three principal Headdes from whence The Summe of the Defence as from their springes the streames of the whole Booke doo runne whiche are 1 a desire to disgrace me 2 an ernest auouching of his new false doctrines in condemnation of the Catholique Faith and of the whole state of Ancient Religion 3 the reproufe of Priestes Bishoppes Cardinalles and the Popes manners in this Treatie I haue said somewhat in Defence of my selfe as it was behooful I should the most labour I haue emploied to defende the receiued doctrine of the Catholike Faith which he hath laboured much to impugne With the liues and manners of the Clergie I meddle litle Menne be menne and wherein they haue donne euil I accoumpt them worthy of reproufe no lesse then he Howbeit what so euer he bringeth al is not the Gospel that in this point procedeth from his penne and malice could neuer yet learne to saie wel Touching bothe doctrine and manners if it shal please God to geue our Countrie grace to imbrace that onely doctrine whiche is true and Catholique that is to saie whiche we defende against the Nouelties and Heresies of our time so busily by M. Iewel and by them of that side with al diligence force and policie set forth and commended to the people concerning order of life and manners their pleasant Gospel breedeth suche libertie loosenesse and lewdnes among them that receiue it that we doubte not but it shal easily to al appeare that when the Catholiques whom they cal Papistes liued worst the time brought forth moe felowes of Angelles then their time notwithstanding the great number they crake of bringeth forth felowes of honest menne when so euer they liue best if it maie be truely said that at any time they liue wel who haue cut them selues from that bodie of Christe into the members whereof onely the grace of God is deriued The Summe and order of this Treatie If then thou be desirours Christian Reader to vnderstande the order and purporte of this Treatie made for answer to the Defence for the present time thus it is First in defence of my selfe I haue shewed how vntruly and sclaunderously M. Iewel hath burdened me with certaine hateful Crimes in his Epistle to the Queenes Maiestie The Vntruthe of these pointes I haue thought good plainely to laie before the Readers eies by conference of the places in my Confutation whence he tooke the occasions of his sclaunders as he pretendeth by the quotations noted in the Margent Nexte whereas he findeth him selfe muche agreeued with the sharpnesse of my vtterance vsed in my Confutation and in my first Reioinder and to make credite thereof hath as it were into a Table cowched together a large heape of sharpe wordes pretended by
his quotations to be in my said two Bookes whiche are not there in deede altogether in that order and meaning as he vntruly hath alleged them I proue his dealing herein partely to be agreable to his other false demeanour and partely that good and iust causes there were why I should writing against him vse suche order of language Furthermore bicause he woulde the great and manifolde Vntruthes with whiche I charged him to seeme no Vntruthes at al but that al is the Gospel what so euer commeth from his Mouthe and whereas for proufe thereof he hath set forth a View of his Vntruthes the least of al that he could espie by me noted against him and pretendeth to iustifie the same his least Vntruthes in the said View I haue made an answere to that View of Vntruthes and there doo shewe manifestly specially in the chiefe pointes where errour is most perilous that he was truely and iustly charged with those Vntruthes and that for ought he hath yet said in Defence of them he remaineth stil chargeable with the same as before This muche I haue perfourmed in the first Booke After this in foure bookes folowing I detecte his Errours Lies Cauilles shiftes Sclaunders and sundrie vntrue matters founde in the firste and seconde parte of his Defence And in respecte thereof I cal the Treatie A Detection of sundrie foule errours lies sclaunders c. At length hauing tried by very certaine experience and exacte view of the whole Booke that there was no ende of lying what place so euer in reading my eie lighted vppon I thought it most profitable and most agreable with my profession to let passe thinges of smal importance the handeling of whiche serued him specially to scoffe to vtter vile matter againste the Churche and to fil vp his Booke in tended at the beginning to be made greate and to treate of the Articles of Doctrine in defence of the Truthe and to confute what he hath brought to the contrarie Among whiche Articles of doctrine of some I haue treated briefly as being alreadie treated of in my Confutation and otherwheres of some at good length and with more diligence as of Succession and of the vnlawful Marriages of Priestes and al other Votaries wherein he is very large and copious of Doctours sayinges of al sortes but vtterly destitute of any one saying that maketh cleerely for his parte In the ende I doo most euidently disproue and refel what he was hable to bring for Defence of two pointes which he is not ashamed to affirme seming to me the one very false the other very sclaunderous The first is as he auoucheth them that matters of faith and Ecclesiastical causes are to be iudged by the Ciuile Magistrate The other is that the Papistes haue taught that simple Fornication is no sinne How weake proufes he bringeth for the one and for the other and yet how shamelesly he goeth about to prooue them by conference of bothe our Treaties it shal appeare Withal there I haue added a Comparison of Errours in mistaking names of menne bookes Chapters c. with whiche M. Iewel chargeth me and I him Matters let passe vvith treating vvhereof the Defence is grovven to a Huge Volume Thus haue I declared in fewe the Summe as it were and Order of this Treatie As for sundrie other matters as of forged Scriptures of the doctrine of Deuilles so he calleth the forbidding of Priestes Monkes Friers and Nunnes to marrie of the fruites of single life whereof he laith out great stoare of filthy sayinges of S. Iames Epistle whether it be Canonical Scripture of sundrie ancient Traditions now growen out of vse of the Fourmes and Accidentes whereat he scoffeth like a Vice plaier of the number of the Sacraments of the Churche which we defende to be seuen he affirmeth to be but two or els so many as the thinges be vnto which the name of Sacrament is by any Writer applied which are very many of the Faith of Infantes of their new found Imaginatiue Faith or rather phantastical Imaginatiō that eateth the bodie and drinketh the bloud of Christ of the Popes Dispensations of dissensions among the Fathers of Nominales and Reales of Thomistes and Scotistes of diuersitie of religious persons Apparel wherein he saith they put great holinesse of the variance betwen the Lutherās and the Zuinglians of the fable of Dame Iohane the woman Pope of the Marble Image lying in the high way at Rome of the stoole of easement of Porphyrie stoane at Lateran of Athenes and Rome whether they were Vniuersities in the time this Dame Iohane is feyned to haue liued in of the vicious life of Petrus Aloisius Duke of Parma and Placentia of Iohn Diazius death of the slaughter of the Boures of Germanie that tooke weapons against the nobilitie there prouoked by the preaching of Luther and his scholers of Constantines Donation of Poison ministred in the Sacrament as he reporteth feined fables for stories of great soothe of the abomination of desolation of the state of the Church of Rome of Antichrist of the mistaking of Cardinal Hosius of their pretensed burning of the Scriptures of S. Augustine the Apostle of the English Nation that he was a wicked man of Priestes keeping of Concubines of Images of Latine Praiers and Churche Seruice of Comparison of learning betwene the Catholiques and the Protestantes of Rome whether it be Babylon of summoning of Councelles of the Stewes in Rome whereof gladly he vttereth muche talke of kissing the Popes foote of the Popes hurling of Franciscus Daldulus fast tied in chaines vnder his table there to gnaw boanes with his Dogges of the Popes Bridle and Stirop to be holden by Princes of Pope Hildebrandes surmised wicked deedes as they fable of the Popes treadding on the Emperours necke of the Pope whether he be euer holy of the Popes Exactions of the Cheast in the Popes bosom whether the Pope be God of the Popes power feined to be ouer Angels whether the Pope can commit Simonie whether the Pope be King of Kinges whether the Pope be aboue general Councels whether the Pope maie erre or no whether the Pope be a Kinge Of these and of a great many moe suche matters whereof some be lothesom some be fabulous vaine and friuolous some be false sclaunderous and spiteful some blasphemous some alreadie sufficiently treated of briefly al tending vnto the contempt of the Catholique Religion as M. Iewel handleth them in which matters he hath vttered the stoare of his learning Of these I saie I haue said nothing much disaduantaging my selfe thereby and the common cause which I defend for so much as in the making vp of his great Booke with heaping together these ministerly matters he hath vttered as he doth euery where els good stoare of most euident and grosse Lies of which his owne frendes and best fauourers in case thei were detected would be ashamed These forenamed be the thinges which I haue briefly handled and these other and