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A06347 An excellent and plaine discourse of the church, whereby the godlie may knowe and discerne the true Church, from the Romish Church, and all other false and counterfet churches, as well for matters of doctrine, as discipline, &c. Written in Frenche by M. Bartrand de Loque, a godlie minister of Dolphenine. And faithfully translated into English, by M.T.W. Seene and allowed; Traité de l'eglise. English Loque, Bertrand de.; T. W. (Thomas Wilcox), 1549?-1608. 1582 (1582) STC 16813; ESTC S103377 172,896 422

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be helde taken or acknowledged for any other then Apostolicall pro consanguinitate dictrinae saith he that is to say for the nighnesse in blood or by reason of that doctrine which they maintayne keepe and holde with the Churches which the Apostles them selues ordayned and set vp S. Augustine writing to one Generosus Aug. op 156. doeth so extoll the succession and continuall order of Pastours that hee nameth thirtie Bishops of Rome putting Anastasius for the nine and thirtieth but hee addeth euen presently or immediatly after In all this ranke or bande there was not to be founde one Donatist And against the Manichees he writeth thus Epist fundament cap. 4. There are verye many thinges whiche holde and keepe me in the lappe of the Catholike Church the consent of people and nations the authoritie whiche was begunne by myracles nourished through hope augmented by charitie and confirmed by antiquitie moreouer the succession of Pastours euen from the seate of Saint Peter to him that is at this day present And a little after But on your parte sayth he to the Manichees ye alledge or bring foorth no suche thing but onely ye retaine or stande to a promise of trueth which indeede if it did declare it selfe so euidently that a man coulde not any more dout thereof I confesse consent that it ought to be preferred before antiquitie succession and all other thinges S Hierome Hierom. epi. 1. ad Heliod habetur they are not saith he the sonnes and children of holy men that hold and possesse the places of holy men but they which followe their doctrine and practise their woorkes Distinct. 40. Can. And Chrysostome in a certayne place There are sayth he many Elders and fewe Elders manie in name and fewe in deede Beholde my brethren how ye are placed and set in the chaire For it is not the chaire or place that maketh an Elder but the Elder the chaire or place Beholde after what maner and sort the ancient writers haue spoken But would we know in one word by the word of God of what value is the most common and olde succession that a man can suppose if the puritie of doctrine bee wanting S. Paule teacheth it vs Gal. 1.8 writing to the Galathians when he saith If wee our selues or an Angell from heauen preach vnto you otherwise then that which wee haue preached vnto you let him be accursed Moreouer I woulde gladly demaunde of the Romish Catholikes for what cause they holde not the Churches of the East for true Churches They will not say that it is because that succession is not on their side for they want not that but it is on their side euen as olde and auncient at the least as in the Romish Church Wherefore they must needes say that it is by reason of the doctrine receiued amongest them to wit because they hold not the Pope for their head because they deny purgatory because their ministers be married because they celebrate and minister the holy supper with leauened breade because they giue both kindes to the people and such like thinges Nowe if as touching the East Churches the Papistes iudge of the Churches not by succession but by doctrine wherefore do they when they dispute with vs stay them selues rather vpon succession then vpon the doctrine seing that the question in controuersie betweene vs is to examine the markes of the Church Secondarily touching the matter of succession we say that if we shall enter into the sifting of the succession of Popes and Bishops in the Church of Rome we shal easily finde that if men will theredy iudge of their vocation or calling it shall not serue their turne very much or stand them in any great steade For this we shal be sure to finde that they haue oftentimes succeeded tyrāts schismatikes excommunicate persons and Bishops or Popes not lawfully called For what was Gregorie the seuenth who was named before he came to the pope dome Hildebrand Vrspergensis Vrspergensis witnesseth that hee vsurped the Papall seate through tyrannie and not by a lawfull vocation And the councell holden at Wormes Concil Wormat in the yere 1080. saith also of the said Hildebrand that he was not chosen by God but that he did without shame thrust in himselfe thether by deceit and money and that he ouerthrewe the ecclesiasticall order that he was an offensiue person a mouer of debate and an obseruer of diuinations dreames yea a manifest Necromancer or coniurer What was the woman Pope Ioan about the yere 854 Platina Platina in her life saith that she was an English woman who in her youth followed and accompanied a younge scholler in studies and profited so well therein that at Rome shee was esteemed amongest the most skilfull and learned for which cause shee was exalted to bee Pope they supposing shee had been a man But she was founde great with childe and at the last deliuered in an open streate and as they were going in solemne procession vpō the shoulders of those that caried her where also shee died What was Benedict the ninth The storie writers declare that after he was accused of many crimes by the Romanes he was driuen away and in his place was ordained the Bishoppe of Sabina called Siluester the thirde who likewise was deposed and put downe because he was an idiot ignoraunt and vnprofitable and the saide Benedicte recouered the seate againe from whence through couetousnesse hee put him selfe downe and ordayned in his place Iohn the Archdeacon of Saint Iohn port Latine who was named Gregorie the sixt to whome he solde the Popeship for verye muche money paid downright Iohannes Maior Mare Historiarum Nauclerus Platina as witnesseth Iohannes Maior The sea of histories Nauclerus Platina and the same Gregorie beeing Pope was iudged as well by the Cleargie as by the people to bee a murtherer and a symoniakal person What was Siluester the seconde Platina saith that being a Frier hee gaue himselfe to the diuel vpon condition that he would aide helpe him to obtaine that which hee desired so by that meanes he came to be Pope What was Eugenius the fourth He by the definitiue sentence of the Councel of Basill was condemned for a schismaticke rebell and stubborne person and so deposed and one Aimus Duke of Sauoie substituted in his place in the yeere 1439. the 16. of Nouemb. Notwithstanding he being supported and vpholden by the fauour of certaine princes abode in the possession of his Popedome and Aimus his election passed into smoake and was of no force or value But without passing to anie other examples for this cā not be done but in long time may we now affirme first that in al the time of these Popes there hath not been some interruption or breach of personall succession in the seate of Rome veryly we must confesse it vnlesse a man would say that heretikes and notorious schismatikes were the heads of the church
men make the plough continually to goe to rent or cleaue it to turne it vpside downe Therfore also Saint Paule saith in the Acts Act. 14.22 That by many tribulations wee must enter into the kingdom of God 2. Tim. 3.12 And in the 2. Epistle to Tim. All those that will liue godly in Christe Iesus shall suffer persecution Iesus Christ saith also vnto his Disciples Iohn 15. 20. Remember the woorde that I saide vnto you that the seruaunt is not greater than his Master If they haue persecuted mee Iohn 16.1 2 they will persecute you also Also These thinges haue I saide vnto you that yee should not bee offended They shall excommunicate you yea the time shall come that whosoeuer killeth you will thinke that hee doeth God seruice And this is the state and condition wherein God will haue his Churche to glorifie him heere belowe on the earth And in deede the first lesson that Iesus Christ gaue to his Disciples was touching this matter of the Crosse and persecutions ●at 1● 24 If any man saith hee will come after mee let him forsake himselfe and take vp his Crosse follow me The experience of all times ages doth sufficiently shewe vnto vs the truth of this matter whether wee consider somewhat narrowly as well the state of the ancient Churche vnder the olde Testament as the state of that which came afterwarde vnder the newe Testament insomuch that it may rightly say Psal 129 1. They haue often afflicted me from my youth and haue done me a thousande euils at is said in the Psalmes For euen from the beginning the Diuell hath alwaies beene like to himselfe that is to say a lier a murtherer Iohn 8. 44. enuious and a false and priuie accuser and warre hath alwaies continued Gen. 3.15 2. Cor. 6.14.15 betweene the womans seed and the serpents seede And howe can any man ioyne and put together thinges which are of a contrary nature Howe can any man make agreement betweene God and the Diuell betweene Christ and Belial betweene the faithfull and the vnbeleeuers Iesus Christ in the 3. chapter of S. Iohn sheweth a reason to declare why it is impossible that the good and the wicked shoulde suffer one with another agree together Ioh. ● 19.20 to wit that all the workes which the world doeth are wicked and therefore least they should bee discouered and laid open by the light it hateth the light and loueth darkenesse From hence is it that euen from the beginning of the world enmities betweene the faithfull and the aduersaries of the truth haue taken and had their originall and first foundation This is the cause why Cain slue his brother Abell that Lot the faithfull seruant of the Lord was hated of the Sodomites that Ishmael mocked Isaac and persecuted him that Esau went about to oppresse and kill Iacob euen from his youth that Ioseph had his owne brethren for his enimies that the Prophetes could not agree with the wicked Kinges nor Saint Iohn Baptist with the incestuous Herode nor Iesus Christe with the high Priests Scribes and Pharisees nor the Apostles and Martyrs with the infidels and vnbeleeuers of their times And therefore it is meere folly to suppose and thinke that the children of God can euer bee beloued of the worlde Whereupon by good right and for good cause Saint Iames saith Iames. 4.4 That the amitie of the worlde is the enmitie of God and hee that will be a friend of the world maketh himselfe the enemie of God And for this cause also Iohn 15.19 Iesus Christ hath said to his Disciples If yee were of this world the world would loue his owne but because yee are not of this world but I haue chosen and separated you out of this world therefore the worlde hateth you To be short if wee woulde that the Church of God should be without persecution thē of necessitie must it be that the world should be without hatred the Diuel without enuie and our nature without vice or sinne But to the ende that wee may specifie and declare cetaine things A discourse of the tenne great persecutions of the Church touching the persecutions of the Church let vs examine as it were one by one the tenne persecutions which came vpon it after the death of Iesus Christe vnder the Emperours whereof the Ecclesiasticall historie maketh mention True it is that in the time of Augustus the seconde Emperour the Churche was much persecuted vnder the great Herode who thinking to put to death the King of the Iewes in the very cradle commaunded men to slaie all the babes and little children of Bethelehem and of all the borders thereof from two yeeres olde and vnder Also vnder Tiberius the third Emperour by Herode Antipas the Tetrarch of Galilee who was the sonne of the first Herode who tooke away his brother Phillips wife and put to death Iohn Baptist because hee reproued him for that sinne and offence And by Pilate also who condemned and caused to bee put to death on the Crosse Iesus Christ the high Priests Scribes Pharises and Elders of the people beeing the principall blowers of the fire chiefe persecutors Moreouer vnder Caius Caligula that horrible monster who was appointed the fourth Emperour in the nine and thirtieth yeere after Christes birth and raigned three yeeres tenne monethes and eight dayes and vnder Claudius also his successor And it appeareth by the historie of the Actes and the Epistles of the Apostles howe the Churches were tossed and persecuted in Asia Antiochia Pisidia Iconium Lystra Galatia Ephesus Macedonia Phillippi Thessalonia Corinthus Berrhoe Rome and many other places but al these persecutions were as yet particular and but in some one place or other God moderating and mitigating the heartes and handes of men and gouerning after a wonderfull sorte his Church in those Emperours daies to the end it might more blessedly and plentifully growe But omitting these let vs speake of the tenne great and generall persecutions as they are called by which the Church was eagerly assaulted and cruelly tormented on all sides The first persecution was vnder Nero the sixt Emperour who was called Claudius Domitius Nero. Hee was ordeined Emperour in the yere 57. after the birth of Christ and reigned xiiii yeeres seuen monethes and certaine dayes And some say that the fiue first yeeres hee was a good man but that afterwardes hee so disordered himself and fell into suche excesse by incests murthers and all manner of wickednesses that hardly there is as yet any other Emperor to bee found who was defiled with such filthinesses Tertullian rehearseth in his Apologetico Tertul. Apolog cap. 5. that this Emperour was the first persecutor of the Church Looke saith hee into your historie and registers and you shall finde that Nero was the first which exercised crueltie against the Christians whiche were vnder the Emperours authoritie and principally against the Churche which was