c. In deede sayth he the bodie of Marie was holye but God it was not The Virgin was a Virgin in deede and honorable but she was not giuen to vs to be worshipped but hir selfe worshipped him that was borne of hir who came to hir from heauen out of his fathers bosome And for this cause dothe the Gospell arme vs telling that whiche the Lorde spake woman what haue I to do with thee mine houre is not yet come least any should thinke the holy virgin to be more excellent he calleth hir woman as it were prophecying suche thinges as by reason of sectes shoulde come to passe on the earth Least that any bodye maruelling too muche at the holy Virgin slippe into this heresie and these dotages For all the handling of thys heresie is but a mockerie and as a man maye saye an olde wyues tale For what Scripture hathe euer declared whiche of the Prophetes commaunded man to be worshipped muche lesse a woman shee is in deede an excellent vessell but a woman and nothing chaunged from hir nature Shee is honorable in honoure bothe in vnderstanding and sense euen as are the bodies of the Sainctes And if to hir glorifying I should haue sayde somewhat more euen as Helias a virgin from his mother and so still remayning was translated and sawe not deathe euen as Iohn that leaned on the Lordes breast whome Iesus loued euen as sainct Thecla Yea Marie is yet more honorable for the dispensation of the mysterie wherewith shee was made woorthie But neither Helias is to be worshipped althoughe he be yet alyue neither is Iohn to be worshipped althoughe by his prayers he obtayned his wonderfull sleepe or rather hee obtayned grace of God Nor yet Thecla neyther any Saynct is worshipped For the auncient errour shall not master vs that leauing the lyuing God wee shoulde worshippe those thinges that are made of hym For they worshipped and honoured the Creature more than the Creator and became fooles If he wyll not haue Angels to be adored howe muche more will he not haue hir whiche was engendred of Anne which was giuen to Anne of Ioachim which by their prayers and all their diligence according to the promise to hir father and mother was giuen yet was she not engendred beyonde the nature of men but as all are of the seede of a man and the wombe of a woman c. For it is vnpossible for any to bee engendred on earth beyonde the nature of man Only it was sitting for him nature gaue place to him alone he as the work master and hauing powre of the matter fourmed him self of the Virgin as it were of the earth VVho beeing God the word discended froÌ„ heauen â–ª and put on flesh of the Virgin Mary but not that the Virgin shoulde be worshipped not that he would make hir a God nor that we should offer in the name of hir c. he suffred hir not to giue baptisme nor to blesse the disciples he bad hir not rule in the earthe but onely that she shoulde haue hir sanctification and bee made worthy of his kingdome From wheÌ„ce then commeth agayne to vs the round Dragon that wrappeth him self on a heape fro wheÌ„ce are these Councels renewed for any cause Let Mary be had in honor let be worshipped the father the sonne and the holy ghost let no man worship Mary I say not a woman no not a man This mysterie is due to God the Angels receiue not suche glorifying Let the thinges euill written he rased cleane oute of the hearte of those that are deceyued let the luste of the tree be taken out of their eyes let it tourne to the Lorde that framed it let Eue vvith Adam feare God that shee maye vvorshippe him onely least shee be ledde by the Serpentes voyce But let hir abyde stedfast in Gods commaundement eate not of the tree Let no body eate of the errour that is for sainct Mary For thoughe the tree bee fayre yet it is not to be eaten althoughe Mary bee moste fayre and holy and honorable yet is she not to be adored But these Arabicke women worshipping Mary do renue again the mixture to Fortune and prepare a table to the Diuell not to God as it is written they are fedde with the meat of wickednesse And agayne And their women do boult flowre and their children gather stickes to make cakes kneaded with oyle to the Q. of heaueÌ„ Let suche women be put to silence by Hieremie and let them not trouble the worlde let them not saye wee honour the queene of heauen c. Thus sayth Epiphanius and muche more neither for hir only though chiefly for hir but in generall for all the Saintes Non conuenit colere sanctos c. It is not mete to woorshippe the Sainctes beyonde comelynesse but it is meete to honour the Lorde of them let the errour therfore ceasse of those that be seduced Nowe if ye say vnto me all this is spoken againste the worship of offring to hir and sacrifising to hir not for inuocation of hir first this shift is false M. Sta. for Inuocation in déede is the chiefest worship that we can giue not of the lips so much as of the heart farre aboue any outwarde sacrifice of the bodie and therefore to be muche more giuen to God alone as S. Aug. reasoneth Sicut orantes c. Euen as when wee praye and prayse wee directe signifying vowes vnto God when we offer the verie thinges in our heart the whiche we signifie so sacrifycing we know that no visible sacrifice ought to be offred to any other than to him to whom we our selues ought to be an inuisible sacrifice As therfore no bodily sacrifice may be directed to any but to God so knew Epiphanius that all spirituall sacrifice is onely due to god And therefore he so little ascribeth it to hir or any other that bothe in the beginning of his treaiise and in the ende he maketh his inuocations onely to god Saying in the beginning Nunc autem clarè c. But let vs now clearely speake of the heresie it selfe and inuocating God as we will adioyne confutation agaynst it c. And in the ende thereof Ad vnam illam c. Let vs proceede to that onely heresie which is yet vntouched inuocating God that he would helpe vs c. Thus ye sée to whome he ascribeth inuocation not to hir of whom he writeth or to any other saincte but alonely to god This shifte fayleth therefore in saying he writeth onely agaynst offring and sacrificing to hir But setting all this aside haue not you I beséeche you offred and sacrificed to hir I pray you turne back agayne to those your prayers whiche I haue cited that playnely confesse the facts and glorie therein Neither coulde they tell by what meanes they shoulde worshippe hir inoughe But if it yrke ye to turne to that whiche was so yrkesome to reade before I will shâ—…we you yet once more so playne a
turne ye are to gredie man remember that qui cupit totum perdit totum But let vs sée your sixe demaundes whether they be reasonable and to be graunted yea or no. There are therefore say you many thinges to be considered first that Christ lefte one to rule his vvhole Churche in his steade from time to time vnto the ende of the vvorlde Is this your first request to be considered and graunted M. Stapleton now surely a reasonable demaund to be considered vpon And woorthie to haue that Salomon graunted to Adonias for asking of Abisaâ—…g to wife Wise king Salomon saw he might aswell haue asked the crowne from his head yea his head from his shoulders and who so vnwise that seeth not ye might aswell aske the whole controuersie to be graunted you and graunt ye this what néede ye propounde your other principles following How be it let vs sée what they be also Secondly we muste consider ye say that this one vvas S. Peter the Apostle and novv are the Bishops of Rome his successours Out of doubt ye had on some great considering câ—…ppe M. Stapleton when you considered that the Bishop should haue considered this He was much to blame he considered it not but M. Stapl. and ye were as wise as God might haue made you ye would haue better coÌ„sidered with your selfe than to thinke others haue so litle consideration as to graunt ye this your false and foolishe principle Thirdly say you that albeit the Bishop of Rome had no such vniuersall gouernment ouer the vvhole yet that he is and euer vvas the Patriarche of Englande and of the vvhole VVest Church and so hath as much to do here as any other Patriarche in his Patriarchshippe It is a signe M. Stap â–ª ye shrewdly doubte the former twains woulde neuer be graunted that so soone would be content to become a Patriarche of a piece from a Pope of the whole which though it sheweth lesse haughtinesse in you that would play small game rather than sit out yet perchance your Pope is of Alexanders spirite to whome Darius hauing offred halfe his dominions if I were Alexander ê™ Parmenio I would take it so would I ê™ Alexander if I were Parmenio And so perchance your Pope will say to you if I were Master Stapleton I would be content at least to be a Patriarche and perchance a worse rowme woulde serue But beyng the Bishop of Rome he will say Aut Papa aut nihil And therefore least ye get his curse before ye aske our consent the surest way were to know how he will like of this your limitation and when he shal be content then propose it to vs to consider thereon But I see ye like not greatly to stande hereon for fourthly say you Then all vvere it that he had nothing to intermedle vvith vs nor as Pope nor as Patriarche yet can not this supremacie of a ciuill Prince be iustified VVhereof he is not capable especially a vvoman but it must remayne in some spirituall man. Your must is very mustie M. Stapl. and smelleth of the pumpe of Romes ship Your Sequence is as badde the B. of Rome neyther as Pope nor as Patriarche is supreme gouernour in Ecclesiasticall causes in England Ergo No ciuill Prince man or woman is capable of it Againe There must be one spirituall man that must haue an vniuersall gouernment ouer the whole Churche Ergo â–ª A ciuill Prince may haue no particuler gouernement in his particuler Churche The antecedents in déede are true of bothe For neither hath the Pope as Pope or Patriarche or any otherwise any supreme gouernement ouer Englande as you presuppose he had none and yet the Prince both may haue and hath some supreme gouernement ouer vs For in déede all supreme gouernement suche as the Pope vsurped she neither hath nor may haue nor requireth nor belongs to any creature but is due to Christ alone He is that spirituall man that your other antecedent speaketh of if ye meane him it is true if you meane any other it is but your false presupposall though the consequentes whereon we stande followeth neither way neither doe ye laboure once to proue them But is here all things we muste consider no say you for fiftly Besides this the Catholikes say that as there vvas neuer any such president heretofore in the catholike Church so at this present there is no suche excepte in Englande neither among the Lutherans the Suinglians the Suenkfeldians or Anabaptists or any other secte that at this day raygneth or rageth in the vvorlde None of these I say agnyse their ciuill Prince as supreme gouernour in al causes spirituall and temporall Let goe these raging termes of sectes M. Sta. to their common places and I pray ye tell vs once agayne who sayth thus Who euen the Catholikes say so But whome meane you by the Catholiks The Papists Then gentle M. Stap. haue me commended to those your Papisticall Catholikes that ye say say so and aske them agayne if all be Gospell that they do say or no. Tushe man will M Stap. replie will ye not beléeue the Catholikes Why then sixtly and Laste of all I saye and M. Feck vvill also say that euen M. Horne him selfe in this his aunsvvere retreateth so farre back from his assertion of supreme gouernement in all causes spirituall and temporall vvhiche is the state and keye of the vvhole question that he plucketh from the Prince the chiefe and principall matters and causes ecclesiasticall as vve shall hereafter playnely shevve by his ovvne vvordes This geare goeth harde indéede The B. is nowe driuen to asore straight But syr might a man be so bolde to aske your mastership what are you and M. Feck are ye not Catholikes that when ye haue saide the catholikes say so ye come rushing in say Last of all I say and M. Feck vvill also say you make vs doubte least ye be no Catholikes and withall to suspect when ye cal your selfe and your client M. Feck to witnesse some partialitie in your sayings least the sole will holde with the shoe and that as two false witnesses came in agaynst our sauiour Christ with I say so and he vvill say so also so woulde you compact togither to slander the B. herein with I say so and M. Feck vvil say so also But by both your leaues may I be so bolde as to set your I say so and his I say so also asyde and desire ye to proue your so saying Why say you doubt ye of that we shall here after plainly shevve it by hys owne vvordes These are but vvords M. Stap. and ioly promises if ye can shevve it so playnly why shevve ye it not playnly here where ye say it so playnly or else haue shevved at the least where the B. doth thus which till ye shall playnely shewe this your â–ª bolde and playne saying may be suspected for a playne lye But M. Stap. shaking of the further
your saying And so not onely ye playnly reuile the Lordes anoynted the Quéenes most excellent maiestie but also hir highnesse brother and father whom so muche ye praysed before For neither of them did forgo it no not Quéene Mary hir selfe that dyd forgoe it did euer forgoe it so ye rayle at hir also Besides many other godly princes of this other realmes for the eccl. iurisdiction as ye call it whiche some of them did neuer some of them did not euer forgoe And therfore ye both reuile them and belye theÌ„ but chiefly the Quéenes highnesse and is not this neither a preparation to rebellion But M. Stap. muste néedes be let goe whether he list to range and therefore let him goe First he asketh vvho vvere they that set foorth deuises of their ovvne for the succession of the crovvne vvithout the Princes knovvledge Surely sayth he no Catholikes but the very Protestantes them selues Ye doill M. Stap. to make a generall conclusion of the Protestantes simply from the priuate dooinges of some Should a man say that the pedigrée that M. Christoferson set from Iohn of Gaunt for king Philips title to the Crowne of Englande prouing him to be euen nearer than Quéene Mary hir selfe was the dooing of all the Papistes No the Papistes mystiked and corrected it Howebeit when it was best corrected it tended to a farre worsse ende which ende was all their dooings and fetche to bring this Realme to perpetuall slauery and bondage of Aliens than dyd these mens facte in deuising for the succession which though it were not lawfull to be done vvithout the Princes knovvledge as ye say yet was their entent farre otherwise than to make a preparation to rebellion yea rather to stoppe all gappes as they thought the better from Popishe rebellion althoughe they medled further than became them to do But what excuseth this the Papistes disobedience thinke ye these faultes of the Protestantes be couerings large inoughe to hyde the Papistes wickednesse but to stretche them further he discourseth on the writinges of master Knox and master Goodman For we shall haue all layde in our dishe noughte shall be lefte behinde concealed that any Protestants vnaduisedly euer dyd or spake And it is good to sée our owne faâ—…ts and follies this profite of foes Plutarche teacheth vs to be one of the greatest commodities for that that our friendes would not tell vs our enimies will not layne but spâ—…e out all that they knowe to our shame good and badde false and true togither And therfore we had néede beware that professe the word of God how circumspectly we lead our liues least we giue occasion to the aduersarie and his ministers to slaunder the Gospell and that the vncircumcised Philistians rayle not of the God of Israell by reason of our defaults as héere this enimie dothe Howbeit his argument is all insufficient either to proue any disobedience in vs or to excuse the Papistes disobedience the argument is this M. Knox and M. Goodman wrote agaynst the raygne of women Ergo the Protestantes acknowledge not the Quéenes supremacie in all causes ecclesiasticall Such slender arguments he gleaneth togither agaynst vs séeking bye matters But what should he do else should he haue nought to furnishe his counterblast withall At last giuing ouer the pursuite of the Protestantes he returneth to the defence of his clyent that this can be layde of all men least to M. Feck And héere lyke a wel enstructed proctor he reckneth what good déedes he did in Q. Maries dayes and appealeth to certayne Right honorables as the Lorde Earle of Leicester the lorde Earle of Bedforde the lorde Earle of VVarwike Sir VVilliam Cecill secretarie Yea the Queenes maiestie hir selfe to defende and purge him The good déedes that he reckneth vp are these two First that sir Iohn Cheekes life landes and goodes by his trauayle and humble suite were saued The other His hope is that the Queenes highnesse his soueraigne good Lady will thus muche reporte of hym how in the beginning of hir highnesse trouble hir highnesse then beeing imprisoned in the Court at VVestm and before hir committie to the Towre his good hap was to preache a sermon before Queene Mary and hir honorable councell in the Courte where he moued hir highnesse and them also to mercy and to haue consideration of the Queenes highnesse that now is then in trouble and newly entred in prison VVhat displeasure he susteined therfore I do heere saith M. St. omit to expresse but this I certenly know that he hath reported and hath most humbly thanked almightie God and hir highnesse that hir highnesse had the same in remeÌ„brance at the first last talke that euer he had with hir in hir palace at VVestin before hir highnes coronation I trust these are suffycient personages for M. Feck purgation and discharge against your false 〈◊〉 And so he concludeth with a prayer that M. Feck may be made partaker of the like dooinges as he then shewed to other men That downe M. St. God hath graunted him long time M. Fec hath felt it nor if he be not too vnthaÌ„kful can deny it yea your selfe graunt that he confesseth the Q. highnesse to be his soueraigne good lady reported that hir highnesse forgot not the same I warrant you forslacked not the large recompence of his sermon not only if he would haue reuoked his errars superâ—…titions but also euen as he wilfully refused hir highnes fauourable inclinatioÌ„ towards him I haue herd him ofteÌ„ times my selfe publikely priuately acknowledge what the Q. maiestie most liberally gaue him at the reducing of the Minster to the former estate But what doth this Pharisaicall repetition of his former good déedes then excuse his obstinate disobedience now or proue that his booke set foorth agaynst the Queenes maiesties authoritie dispersed among hir subiects is notnowe a very preparation to rebellion if he did any thing then to deserue fauour now let him now so behaue him selfe that he may finde it the Quéenes maiestie is most mercyful and beneficiall What hindreth him then but his owne rebellions obstinacie and yet he hathe founde since what little fauour so euer he got for other then tenfolde muche more doubled to him agayne Little fauoure God knoweth and hir Highnesse felte founde she in that hir trouble and streight imprisonment after M. Feck sermon But ye will not expresse what displeasure M. Fec susteined for mouing Quéene Mary and hir Councell to mercy and to haue but consideration of the Queenes highnesse that now is What gotte he so great displeasure for thus much M. St was it so sore a matter to moue them to mercy and consideration of their doinges I had thought they had done all thinges with mercy and great consideration But why will ye not expresse it forsooth ye should then expresse what excéeding crueltie whiche can hardly be expressed what inconsiderate doings the Papistes vsed then neither coulde they
set vpoÌ„ this worke and peraduenture being compelled And no meruaile if he wauered at the first yet should not occasion there at be snatched of derogating from the Christians but rather the profite of amendement be sought for If you had writen those things vnto him should ye not haue giuen both greater grace and edifiyng either vnto him â–ª hauing his beginnings in the feare of God or els vnto others being readers thereof than now the same your inuectiues do giue more griefe and confusion to all that feare which both in you do shew a most foule lust of back byting and in me a 〈◊〉 of answering For as I haue said in your bookes wrttten against 〈◊〉 you be founde now to affirme the selfe â—…ame things with which ye reproued him â–ª Howbeit now ye are fallen so farre that ye affirme the filthes of mariage ca not be washed away no not with the blond of martyrdome c. And after this againe saith Ruffinus on S. Hierome besides this we haue 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 shewed that it is this mans fashion to derogate 〈◊〉 all good men and 〈◊〉 this point he taketh 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to be somwhat if he may repreâ—…ende aâ—… wiâ—…e men and those that haue any name in â—…earning â–ª I haue shewed also how vnworthâ—…ly he hath rayled on the Ministers and Priestes of Christ. No he hath not spared the Mokes no nor the virgins whom he hath praised nor the continent â–ª yea 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 infamed with his fouâ—…e â—…ibels the estate and degree of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. And so Russinus telleth how vnworthily he defaced S. Ambrose 〈◊〉 whome before he placed among the Prophets â—…postles and afterward placeth them among those that teach straâ—…ge things 〈◊〉 neither did nor new writers Martyr nor other All this I 〈◊〉 M. St. ouâ—… of 〈◊〉 not to detect the Fathers 〈◊〉 but only to shew how weake your argument is in 〈◊〉 vs and that with 〈◊〉 for this article of â—…ourman for his other matters â—… sette 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 S. Hierome calleth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 him vp therefore declaring rather his owne impotencie though otherwise being a very godly Saim and a notable learned Father than herein confuteth his aduersarie Your thirde demaund is to 〈◊〉 what we say to the A rians that denied the miracles done at the saincts tombes to be true miracles and that the 〈◊〉 cannot cast out the diuils and relieue them that be possessed And to the Bogomiles that saide the diuels sate at the saincts tombeâ—… and dyd wonders there to illude and 〈◊〉 the people to cause the people to worship them We denie not M. Sta. with the Arians or 〈◊〉 the power of Christ 〈◊〉 his wondrous workes at the 〈◊〉 of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 theâ—… bicause we denie the feigned 〈◊〉 of your 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 â–ª and images now Betwéene which 〈◊〉 their 〈◊〉 then was as much difference 〈◊〉 it betweene 〈◊〉 miracles and false illusions betweene the sincere worship of God open Idolatrie So that this as the other is your false slaunder also And if ye make al 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 who though they did 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 at that time 〈◊〉 wrought 〈◊〉 his 〈◊〉 to confirme the fayth among the 〈◊〉 yet would they not make any ordinary prescript 〈◊〉 of miracles nor by miracles measure true or false doctrine nor asscribe any holinesse to the 〈◊〉 or places nor such miracles to be of the martyrs doings nor to be done for their deseâ—…uings nor the 〈◊〉 or the martyres them selues to â—…e honored with spirituall worship Then will â—…s make S. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Cyril and other godly fathers to be Arians and 〈◊〉 also sayth S. Aug. Let not the worship of dead men be religion to vs For if they haue liued well â–ª they are not so to be accompted 〈◊〉 they would seeke such 〈◊〉 but they woulde haue 〈◊〉 to be 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 who 〈◊〉 vs â–ª they reioyce that we are made 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 They are therfore to be honored for imitation they are not to be worshipped for religion 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you 〈◊〉 worship them for religion dedicate templeâ—… to them offer 〈◊〉 knéele pray vnto them and make these great poyntes of religion The angell of God in no case woulde suffer any suche kinde of worship to be done vnto him but forâ—…ad S. Iohn to do it Peter would not suffer Cornelius nor Paule and Barnaâ—…as the Lyaconiâ—…s this to worship theÌ„ Which if they refused beeing alme thinke ye they desire you to worship them béeing dead in deede so do your popish saincts Francis the author of the begging Friers as your legend telleth releysed on a 〈◊〉 and laugâ—…ed greatly and beeing demaunded the cause of his laughâ—…er he answered it was bicause â—…e should after his death be worshipped for a sainct And in many your other saincts ye tel â—…s how they appeared to suche or suche a Priest Fâ—…ier Monke or 〈◊〉 commaunding this or that ceremonie church prayer feast or holyday to be made in their honor This did not the true saincts and good angels of God require nor the Churche of God yéelde vnto them as sayth S. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 do we builde Churches to them for they would not so be honored of vs. But as Cyrill sayth Sanctos martyrâ—…s 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 VVe neither call the holy martyrs Gods noâ—… yet vse we to worship them 〈◊〉 rather we prayse them with highâ—… honours that they haue stoutly foughte 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 the sinceritie of the â—…aythe in so muched at they 〈◊〉 their owne life and 〈◊〉 the 〈◊〉 of death 〈◊〉 they preuayled in great daungers and were of suche strengthe that they woulde rayse vp as it were 〈◊〉 of their life And therefore it is not vnworthy yea rather it is also necâ—…ssarie to honour them with perpetual prayses which are glorious by so noble deeâ—…es As for other kinde than this of praysâ—…ng them for their vertues Cyril 〈◊〉 none to the Christians 〈◊〉 sayth â–ª To worshippe dead 〈◊〉 otherwise â–ª is the propertie of heathen 〈◊〉 Nowe where ye measure 〈◊〉 and saincts by miracles S. 〈◊〉 sayth fieri Christianum non 〈◊〉 sanctum c. It is possible that a Christian by signes and vvonders may be made famous but he can not be made a Saincte by them if he vse intemperat and rough 〈◊〉 â–ª Such an one as your Chronicles write that Augustine the Italian was which came hither from 〈◊〉 nothing like this S. Augustine of Affrike suche an other proude and sharpe sainct as was youâ—… S. Thomas 〈◊〉 of whâ—…se shrine and miracles your legendes babble muche Temperatis 〈◊〉 â–ª c. say the S. Augustine but by temperate and softe demeanour â–ª we beleeue that a man may well be made bothe a saincte and perfecte and a man of God yea 〈◊〉 without the efficacie of miracles And so sayth Cyrill on S. Iohn the Baptist in that he wrought no myracles 〈◊〉 in aliquo derogat sanctitate 〈◊〉 c. Neither doth this in
hindreth the matter offendeth and abaseth God and maketh all those playne traytors to God that vse it But to be euen with him M. St. for calling you traytors call you him agayne heretike call him a Vigilant an for it But then must ye make Chrisostome a Uigilantian with him that is euen as earnest agaynst this shifte of intercession as he For writing vpon the womaÌ„ of Canaan calling vpon Christ for hir daughters health he â—…arth 〈◊〉 meâ—… c. Haue mercy vpon me Beholde the phisosophical minde of the woman saying haue mercy vpon me I haue not sayth she a conscience of good workes nor a trust to godly lyfe to mercy I flee to the calme hauen of those that sinne to mercy I flee where iudgement ceasseth where vnspeakable saluation is Tell me O thou woman how art thou so bolde sithe thou arte a sinner and wicked to come vnto God I know sayth she what I will do Behold the womans wisdome she requireth not Iames she besecheth not Iohn she goeth not to Peter nor regardeth the company of the Apostles She sought not a mediator but in place of all them she tooke repentance to be hir companion which repentance filled the roome of an Aduocate and so she went vnto the chiefe fountayne For this cause sayth she he came downe from heauen for this cause he was incarnate and made man and I dare speake vnto him Aboue in the heauens the Cherubins dread him the Seraphins feare him and heere beneath euen a common woman sayth vnto him haue mercy vpon me A very bare saying but conteyning euen the mightinesse of saluation haue mercy vpon me For thys sayth she thou camest for this cause thou took est fleshe for thys cause thou wast made euen that which I am O wonderfull matter aboue is trembling beneath is confidence haue mercy vpon me I haue no neede of a mediatour haue mercy vpon me VVhat hast thou neede of mercie I seeke sayth she c. haue mercie vpon me If my daughter were dead she shoulde not suffer such things for then vvould I haue deliuered hir bodie into the bosome of the earth and in processe of time I should haue forgotten these euilles and my griefe vvoulde haue paused â–ª c. Marke the philosophie of the woman behold hir noble courage she went not to soothsayers shee called not wise men she sought not charms to tie about hir she fetched not those â—…orceresse women that vse to prouoke Diuels and augment the â—…ore vvith theyr enchauntmentes Shee lette go all suche falsehoodes of the Diuell shee contemned all purgings and shee came vnto the healthefull porte of oure soules c. The iudge commeth to thee flee thou to God the Iudge doth call for thee doe thou inuocate God whiche is on thy syde Is he farre from thee that thou shouldest goe to any place for him God is not included in place but he is always euen present at hand euen he that is not shut vp in place is holden yet by faith For if thou wilt enquire a man and demaund what he doth thou shalt heare he sleepeth or he is not at leysure â–ª or in deede euen his seruant vvill disdayne to answere thee But vnto God there is no nede of any of these things But wheresoeuer thou shalt be or wheresoeuer thou shalt inuocate him he hereth thee ther nedes no porter ther needes no mediatour there needes no seruant but say thou Haue mercie vpon me and by and by God will be present yea whyle thou yet speakest he sayeth here I am c. Let vs followe then this woman of Cananâ—…e And like wise on the same storie in an other place Mauult 〈◊〉 nostram c. God had leauer haue our own prayer which are guiltie than the prayer of other for vs. And again Non est opuâ—… paâ—…ronis apud deiâ—… c. There is no neede of patrons before God nor nede of gadding vp and down to flatter other But although thou art alone and haste no patrone and prayest by thy selfe yet shalt thou certainly obtain thy request for God doth not so easily graunt when other pray for vs as when our selues do pray yea though we be replenished with many euils And to conclude he saith Haecigitur scientes c. Knowing therfore these thinges let vs euermore flee to God who is both willing and able to deliuer vs of oure grieues But as for men if at any tyme we shoulde entreate them it behoueth first to meete with the porters to moue their parasites and iesters and oftentymes to goe along way about but in God there is no suche matter he is intreated without mediator without money without cost he graunteth our prayers Now although we sée by the Scripture and by these fathers being yet therfore no Heretikes that we néede not nor oughte to seeke so muche as any intercessoures by whiche terme ye woulde shifte off all the matter saying ye make them no helpers but intercessors only yet herein your shifte is not so miserable as your lie is manifest You inuocated Saintes as healpers yea and Sauioures also Your Primers can witnesse againste you youre Antiphonaes your Grayles your Massebookes Hyuâ—…als Legendes Portasses c. Haue ye forgotten this hymne to the blessed virgine Marie Virgo singularis inter omnes mitis nos culpa solutos 〈◊〉 sac et castos vitaÌ„ prâ—…fta puraÌ„ iter para tutuÌ„ vt videntes Iesum semper collaetemur O thou virgin singular among also meke make vs loose from sinne make vs meeke and chast giue vs a pure lyfe and make our iourney safe that beholding Iesus we may alwayes ioy Do ye not pray in your primer to S. Iohn and the virgin Mary Te etiam inuoco c. I inuocate thee also with Marie the mother of the same our sauiour that thou wouldest vouchsafto giue me thy helpe with hir O you two precious stones O heauenly Marye O Iohn O you two lightes from God shining before God with your rayes driue away the cloudes of my sinnes Doe ye not there pray to S. Christofer O thou martyr Christofer with the godlie honor of our Sauiour make thou vs in mind to deserue the loue of God Christ hath promised that what thou askest thou haste obtained giue vnto the sory people those things that at thy death thou askedst giue thou comfort to vs and take away the grief of our mynde make thou the accompt of the iudge to be milde to all men Pray ye not to S. George on horsebacke O George the noble martyr prayse and glory becommeth thee c. we beseeche thee with the bottome of our hart that our sinnes being washed away we may be ioyned with al the faithfull citizens of heauen Pray ye not to the. 11000. virgins O you eleuen thousande maidens Lilies of glorious virginitie and Roses of martyrdome defende you me in my life giuing to me your helpe and in my death shew your selues vnto
To whome quoth Christ O mother I am not able to denie it thee then Marie put in the ballance the droppe of bloud togither with hir merits and then that part weyed downe to the grounde so that the deuils went crying away Our Ladie is too mercifull to Christians we euer fayle where she medleth with vs O Ladie it is not good contending with thee What a derogation is this to Chist And where ye graunt most to the bloud of Christ where ye would salue the matter with intercession euen there ye say not that he will vouchsafe to graunt hir petition but that he is not able to gainesay it yea that it is not lawfull for him to denie it For sayth Cardinall Uigerius Dixit Salomon c. Salomon sayd to his mother aske mother what you will for it is not lawfull for me to turne away my face from hir that bare me VVhat shall wee thinke other than this the Lorde Iesus Christ to say to his mother who is farre wiser and iuster than Salomon And his reason is this Salomons mother had midwiues nources bearers of the child and instructours but Marie was all this hir selfe and so Christ is more bounde to his mother than Salomon to Bethsabée And therefore if we will worship Christ wée must first go to his mother For as sayth Iacobus de Voragine as Eue was in the middest betweene the serpent and the man so Marie making our reconciliation is in the midst betwene God and man. What a dubble blasphemie is this First that our reconciliation is made by any other than Christ of whom the Apostle sayth If when we were yet enimies we were reconciled to God by the death of his sonne much more seeing we are reconciled we shall be preserued by his life nor yet onely so but also glorying in God through our Lorde Iesus Christ by whome we haue nowe obteyned reconciliation Secondly that we haue any other mediatour than Christ wher as the apostle sayth Unus deui c. There is one God and one mediatour of God and man the man Christe Iesus neyther will your shift serue you to cloake youre blasphemie that ye make hir a mediatour of intercession for lo here he maketh hir a mediatour of making the attonement and reconciliation betwene mankinde and God which as it is our very redemption so is it the proper office of Christ alone â—…pse est pax nostra c. He is ouâ—… peace whiche hath made one of both hath broken downe the wall that was a stop betweene vs and also hath done away through his flesh the cause of hatred that is to say the lawe of commaundements conteyned in the lawe written for to make of twaine one new man in himselfe so making peace and to reconcile both vnto God in one bodie through his Crosse and slue hatred thereby For through him we both haue an open way in one spirite vnto the father Wherevpon sayth S. August Nes per mediatorem Christum reconciliamur deo VVe are reconciled to God by Christ being the mediator What blasphemie then is this in you to spoyle Christ hereof and giue it to the virgine Marie and make hir as much the instrument and meane of our reconciliation as Eue was the instrument and meane of our perdition But in this entrance of our perdition though both Adam Eue were culpable and both being one flesh are comprehended vnder the name of one and that of Adam the husband as the Apostle sayth Death reigned from Adam to Moses eueÌ„ ouer them also that sinned not with like traÌ„sgression as did Adam which is the similitude of him that is to come Yet afterward S. Paule noting the meane by whome properly the sinne entred first affirmeth that Adam was not deceyued but the woman was deceyued and was in transgression If then ye make the like proportion of our reconciliation froÌ„ Adam to Christ from Eue to the virgin then as Eue properly was the very originall and cause of the transgression though Adam being the assenter bare the name therof then properly the virgin is the very original cause of our reconciliation and Christ is but an assenter so beares but the name thereof What a wicked doctrine is this M. S. â–ª and is this now nothing els but ora pro nobis Might not Christ rather say ora pro nobis to hir syth ye giue hir all him a bare name only Now to the confirming of this blasphemous doctrine commeth in another of hir Chaplayues crying O foemina super omma c. O woman that art aboue all things and blessed of all things the fore elect and most worthie vessell framed of the first artificer the treasorie of the diuine giftes god hath chosen forechosen thee that God and man might dwell nine Monethes in thy tabernacle I dare boldly say that euen for the Virgin conceyued in Gods minde many thousande yeares before shee was borne mankinde was preserued in his beeing For it is euident that for their first transgression Adam and Eue deserued not onely death but euen the vtter rooting them out to nothing And the diuine vengeance which knoweth not the accepting of persons as it left not vnpunished the aungels offence so woulde it not haue left vnpunished mankindes offence but our first parents were preserued that they were not consumed to nothing for the chiefest reuerence that he had to the virgin for he loued hir aboue all creatures that should be created and not vnited vnto god The reason is that this Mayden was in the loynes of Adam as concerning the sede And the power of bringing forth the mayden was imprinted in the first father tyll shee were in deede brought foorth But of hir Iesus ought to be borne who was in Adam onely after his bodily substance to be brought forth of the virgin and of none other God therefore did spare oure first parentes nor consumed them to nothing bicause that so shee had not beene borne and by consequence Iesus neyther nor God had put on flesh Therefore by this noble creature God did saue our first parentes from the transgression and Noe from the floud and Abraham from the slaughter of the Kinges Isaac from Ismaell Iacob from Esau the Iewish people from Aegypt from Pharaos hande from the redde Sea from the force of dyuerse Kinges and Tyrauntes from Nabuchodonozor and from the captiuitie of Babilon Dauid from the Lion from Goliah and from Saule And to conclude all the fauourings and deliuerances made in the olde testament I doubt not but God did them for the loue of this mayden and for the worship of hir whom God had from without beginning foreordeyned to be set aboue all his workes O outragious blasphemie where is Christ How agréeth this with S. Paules doctrine that Christ is the image of the inuisible god the first begotten of all creatures for by him were all things created things that are
so saith an other church we haue it Nay sayth the thirde neither of ye both haue it but we Héere the one partie or the other say not true yet al work miracles after their miraculous maner But will ye know the truth they were false harlots al deceiued the séely soules that now God be praysed vnderstaÌ„d the knacks of S. Wenefrids néedle the renewing of the bloud of Nayles the filth of S. FraÌ„cis bréeches c. These were your blessed Reliques They were so blessed that as your great champion frier Alfonsus sayth where he defendeth them your blessed couÌ„cell of Laterane vnder your blessep Pope Innocent the thirde was fayne to make this prouiso for them that is put in your decrées Cum ex eo c. Seeing that the Christian religion is defaced and may be defaced in time to come vpon this that certayne do set out to sale the Saints Reliques and euery where shew them foorth we haue ordeined by this present decree that froÌ„ hence foorth the olde Reliques shal in no case be shewed without a cause that is to say without a péece of money to sée them nor shall be set foorth to sale and that suche as shall be found out of newe no man presume to worshippe them till they shall be allowed by the authoritie of the Bishop of Rome that is to say till they haue payed their fées to him for before they be so litle blessed that they be not worshipfull and as for Prelates they shall not suffer those that come for to worship at their Churches to be deceyued by sundry feigned forgeries and false teachings as for lucre sake it is accustomed to be done in most places This decréed your Pope and your Councell M. Stapl. against your blessed reliques Were not here your Pope and his whole Councell heretikes also you were best to say so For this saying proueth your Prelates Priests Pardoners to haue bene false teachers and deceyuers of the people for Lucre and the people hauing bene deceyued by them to haue committed Idolatrie and the Reliques that we were borne in hand were blessed things as ye call them to haue bene faigned forgeries and false teachings not in one place or in some places but in most places that is all ouer your Churche and that not once or twise by a scape but of custome which how long time it prescribeth search you This was the generall state of your vniuersall Church for vniuersall comprehendeth the most parte concerning your blessed reliques euen by the Popes owne definitiue sentence and all his councell which oft times you boast can not erre But though the Pope coÌ„fesse thus much as â—…e could not for shame denie so manifest a matter yet he knew what he did wel inough when he made this statute For what losses so euer other poore Priests and Pardoners should féele he made sure for him selfe to get thereby not so much by retayning the old reliques in estimation that then as stale and common began to decaie as to relieue the Churches hutch whereof he saith he is the coaferer by authorising newe blessed reliques But though he gayned much by this deuice yet much water goeth by the mill that the miller knoweth not of And many miriades of blessed reliques more more encreased and neuer fette the Popes blessing from Rome for their warrant so blessedly they multiplied but had this Popes decrie bene plainly ment or truly kept bothe old and new and all your blessed reliques had bene banished from all blessednesse and worship long agoe as nothing but lies and forgeries inuented to enrich your selues with the spoyle of the peoples Idolatrie I graunt ye haue some antiquitie to pretende for Reliques not onely of S. Hieromes time but somewhat before also that with greate reuerence conserued the bodies of the glorious Martyrs But trowe you they worshipped knéeled crept and offred to them and yet some might yea some did ouershoote themselues herein euen then But did the learned Fathers allow it Doth not euen S. Hierom of whome Alphonsus saithe Qui duriuâ—… 〈◊〉 pugnare solet that was wonte to fight more harde and bitterly say to Uigilantius Quis enim O insanum caput aliquando martyres adorauit For who O thou frantike head hath at any time worshipped the Martyres He telleth how they translated them honorably as noble martyres but they worshipped them not And where other began to attribute an opinion of vertue to their vestiments Chrysestome if the worke be his greatly blameth them Alij autem qui sanctiores c. Other there be saith he that would shew them selues to men to be more holy and tie and hang about them a parte of their hem or heares O wickednesse they would shew a greater holinesse in their garmeÌ„ts than in the body of christ He which is not healed feeding on his bodie would be saued by the holinesse of his garment In so much that he trusteth in the vestiment of man which despayreth in Gods mercie Yea what did Paule did not he giue his napkins that the sicke might be helped yes before those men had the knowlege of God and the reason was that by those mens health the power of God might be knowne But now it were madnesse For after we haue knowne the power of God whereto is it necessarie that we should know the power of man No saith he as I shewed before Neattendaâ—… cinerem c. Regarde not the asshes of the saincts bodies nor the Imbers of the Reliques of the flesh and all their boanes that in time are consumed Yea your owne feigned Epistle in the name of Clement saith Nothing is more wicked and vnthankefull than to receyue a benefite of God and to giue thankes to stockes and stones S. Augustine telleth of Hypocrites in his dayes that caried about with them Reliques for sale Alij membra ossa martyrum c. Other fell the members and bones of Martyrs if yet they be Martyrs other extoll their hems and gardes c. Thus there is some antiquitie to be pretended for Reliques and that they were worshipped also but not of the godly and learned Fathers but of wicked and supersticious hypocrites Against whome they cried out but what would they haue saide had they séene the playne Idolatrie to your forged Reliques Of the which euen the defenders of them haue cried out and coÌ„fessed their abhominations For besides your Pope your Councell of Coleyn euen in defending them saith Hiâ—… tamen c. Notwithstanding here which we can not denie the gouernours of the Churche did after a meruailous fashion sleepe out the matter And anon after Sed nostro saculo c. But in our age and that through the slouth of the parishe Priestes we can not denie it but that we erred And againe Expositae sunt passim c. Reliques are euery where set forth for gaine and those vncertayne Reliques and perhaps herevppon occasion
them master Stapleton till ye set them downe I thinke they will all come in the ende to the effect of this sentence here so often by all yourside alleaged Ye cite Chrysostome as though it were at the full Where in déede ye cut off both the heade the middle and taile of his sentence whereby considering the occasion and purpose of his wordes we might sée that they shoulde not be wrested from his meaning Chrysostome vpon these wordes of the Prophet Esay Factum est anno quo mortuâ—…s est Ozias rex It came to passe in the yere that king Ozias died after a Preface made of Priestes mariage taking occasion of the Prophet Esays wife telleth of Ozias presumption Uerum hic Ozias c. but this Ozias when he was a crowned King bicause he was iust waxed hawtie in minde and conceyuing a greater courage than was for his estate entred into the temple And what sayth Esay He entred into the holy of holies and sayde I will offer incense He being a King vsurpeth the principalitie of the priesthood I will sayth he offer incense bicause I am iust But abide within thy bounds And so Chrysostome procéedeth in the sentence cited by you Alij sunt termini The boundes of a kingdome of a priesthood are not al one c. Which sentence ye truly cite til ye come to these wordes VVhen I say to me I vnderstand a priest And there ye strike of mâ—… words of Chrysostam than ye cited Which belike ye do for two purposes Partly for that ye could not abide to heare of any vices or discommendation in priests therfore ye cull out only that which soundeth to their praise dignitie Partly for that this would haue made the purpose of Chrysost playner reprouing them that disâ—…erne not betwene the office the persoÌ„ At which fault your self so late did stuÌ„ble in princes not discerning between Neroes vices a princes office As in Chrysostoms time same despised the office of a priest bicause of the faults of diuerse priests The wordes of Chrysostome folowing those you cite are these Therefore when thou seest an vnworthie priest slaunder not the priesthod For thou oughtest not to coÌ„demne the things but him that euill vseth a good thing Syth Iudas also was a traytor howbeit for this the order Apostolical is not accused but the mind of him Neither is it the fault of the priesthood but of the euill mind And thou therfore blame not the priesthod but the priest that vseth euill a good thing For if one dispute with thee and say seest thou yonder Christianâ—… answere thou but I speak not to thee of the persons but of the things or else how many phisitions haue bene made slaughtermen haue giuen poisons for remedies And yet I dispise not the arte but him that euill vseth the arte How many shipmeÌ„ haue guided euill their ships yet is not the arte of sayling euill but the mind of them If the Christian man be wicked accuse not thou the profession the priesthood but him that euill vseth a good thing These are Chrysostomes wordes which you omit and then followeth as you recite Regâ—… corpora c. The bodies are coÌ„mitted to the king and so forth as ye say til ye come to the knitting vp of the sentence with Ozias which again you omit VeruÌ„ rex c. But that king going beyond his bounds and passing the measure of the kingdom atteÌ„pted to adde somwhat more and entred into the temple willing with authoritie to offer incense VVhat therfore sayth the priest It is not lawfull for thee Ozias to offer incense Behold libertie behold a mind that knoweth not boÌ„dage behold a tong touching the heauens behold liberty that cannot be restrained behold the body of a maÌ„ the mind of an angel behold one that goeth on the grouÌ„d is coÌ„uersant in heaueÌ„ Thou sawest a king thou sawest not a diademe Tel not me it is a kingdom where is the transgression of lawes It is not lawful for thee O king to offer inceÌ„se It is not lawful for thee to come into the holy of holies Thou passest thy bouÌ„ds thou sekest things not grauÌ„ted to thee therfore shalt leese the things thou hast receiued It is not lawful for thee to offer inceÌ„se but this is giuen vnto the priests This is not thine but this is mine haue I vsurped on me thy purple vsurpe not thou my priesthod It is not lawful for thee to offer inceÌ„sâ—… but only for the sons of AaroÌ„ By this it plainly appeareth wherevpon Chrysost. speaketh to wete of the seuerall functions of the spirituall pastor and the prince and that it is not lawfull for the prince to intrude himself into the office of the diuine minister He may not more take vpoÌ„ him to administer the diuine sacraments of christ his church now although he be the prince to the which not with standing you admitted womeÌ„ thaÌ„ might Ozias sacrifice then For as then God had appoynted who should sacrifice so hath he apointed who should now minister his sacrameÌ„ts Now if ye had shewed that the supreme gouernment ouer ecclesiasticall causes the ouersight and direction of the setting forth of Gods true religion the abolishing of false religion and the deposing of Idolatrous Priestes that obsâ—…inately mainteyne errours agaynst the expresse worde of God be the like doing to this fact of Ozias if ye had proued that the Prince hath euer done or doth or claymeth to do the like fact to this of Ozias in ministring the sacrament then had you alleaged this sentence to some purpose else maketh it nothing to the purpose but maketh agaynst your popish mid wiues they rather play the part of Ozias It maketh not agaynst the Q. Maiestie but most of all against your Pope himselfe that thinketh he playth the high priests part and is so farre therfrom that none is more like than he to this vsurper entring into the holyest place and vsurping the priesthood the sacrifice the power and the honour that belongeth onely to Iesus Christe himselfe As for the office of the true minister of God which neyther your Pope nor you his shaâ—…elings arâ—… is in déede as Chrysostom sayth both a distinct function from the princes and hath other boundes and also we graunt surmounteth farre the boundes of the Princes office in respect of his spirituall ministerie of administring the sacraments of preaching the glad tydings of saluation of denouncing to the obstinate sinners the threates of Gods wrath and vengeance to the penitent the most comfortable promises of Gods mercie fauour whose sentence being rightly applyed in earth God hath promised to ratifie the same in heauen And for this cause doth Chrysost â–ª so highly extoll this priesthood referring all his prayses to the dignitie of his ministerie in respect whereof the Princes ministeris is but outwarde and earthly medling nothing with the administration of this high function but onely with the
wife or any other mans wife daughter or mayde in things perteyning to their duties and offices can and ought to doe Especially sithe your selfe in prosecuting this argument vrge the example of a woman All the women in his kingdome are his subiects so well as the men He hath a supreme gouernment ouer all persons in all causes can he therfore do their duties and yet he can haue the supreme gouernment to maynteine all lawes of matrimonie and to punishe all whordomes and yet not like euery somoner or other executioner of their punishements If ye say a woman may be no inferiour gouernour That is false a wife hath inferiour gouernment in hir housholde and many women haue had inferiour gouernments vnder kings in common weales as the Lady regentes in Flaunders c. But what if she were not an vndergouernour yet if she be a subiect gouerned the words of your definition coÌ„prehend hir saying A chiefe gouernour hath of necessitie the power of doing all those thinges which may be wrought of the inferiours to the magistrates of that congregation by their office or by any charge belonging properly to the same congregation But you will say perhaps that women are of an other kinde so that the king can not do al their offices As likewise for the ecclesiastical gouernment the Apostles might not lawfully do all those things that the widdowes chosen to serue in the congregation mighte and ought to do nor the ciuill magistrate of those congregations might or ought to do them Then will M. Feckenham presse you that your definition is false a gouernour can not do all things that belongeth to a subiect If ye say a woman is not a subiecte that is false If ye say she is not a subiect in respect she is a woman that is false also for both men and women are subiectes to their gouernours If ye say she is not a subiecte in respect she is a wife although I graunt the worde wife hath an other relation than to the king to wife vnto hir husbande yet what auayleth this sithe many offices haue many other relations also the sonne to his father the seruant to his master the scholler to his scholemaster and yet all these be subiects to the Prince although the Prince can not deale in all their seuerall offices But you thinke to salue all the matter with this exception I say not that he which is endowed with chiefest power should straight wayes haue the knowledge of euery lesser office for this perteyneth to the fact and not to the right Neither say I it is alwayes comely that he should execute the inferiour offyce by him selfe but I say there is no lawe to let him no power wants whereby the chiefe magistrate shoulde not do those things which the inferiours in the same common weale are wonte to doe Go to go to M. Saunders ye will still be like the gentleman that would fayne haue eaten his worde if he durst for shame Ye come in pretily and beginne to make some exceptions already you admitte he may wante knowledge of many things perteyning not to his office yea and that it is vncomely he should do them And in déede M. Saunders if you be thinke ye of euery subiectes doings ye shall finde many vncomely and vnreuerent things for so highe an estate to do and many things that he knowes no more howe to do them him selfe than that Cooke that would put mustarde into his milke to season it What and may the Prince do those things him self that are so vile and wherof he hath no knowledge He may say you and he will what righte or lawe may let him If ye talke M. Saunders of a wilfull foole that will caste him selfe and his kingdome away if ye talke of a tyraunt whose will is lawe that sayth as the Pope doth Sic volo sic iubeo stet pro ratione voluntas that is another matter But if ye talke of a king and of a lawfull power then I say his will and power oughte to be restrayned by lawe to do nothing vnskilfully nor vncomely for his estate I graunt he may abase him selfe to some inferiour kinde of offices to do them but not to all no not by the right of his royall estate And yet by his gouernment all those thinges are done that are orderly done Although he him selfe may not do them though he would Do ye not remember S. Paules similitude so ofteÌ„ vsed by your selfe M. Saunders of a coÌ„mon weale resembled to our body The head ye say often gouerneth all the parts and meÌ„bers but the head it selfe doth not nor can not do al that al the parts members do We stande not we go not we sit not on our heads our head reacheth not nor caÌ„ reach euery thing that our hande can reache doth Nor the head doth or can do the office of the shouloers back or belly yet ye graunt the head hath supreme gouernment ouer al these parts deuiseth lawes orders diets prouisioÌ„s helpes for all the parts and actions in the parts of all the body Thus ye sée not only by similitudes examples in which I might be infinite agaynst your thâ—… exaÌ„ples but also by good reason your definition of a supreme gouernour faileth he may be a lawful supreme gouernour yet can not do al the offices of his inferiours Yea it were vnlawful for him to attempt many such things and yet his lawfull supreme gouernmeÌ„t euen ouer all those things that he him selfe can not do nor ought to do is no whit therby empayred And therfore this is a false principle to builde as ye do thereon Nowe this béeing thus playnly proued a false groundeworke let vs sée howe ye procéede to frame your argument on it VVhich things beeing thus foretouched I adde vnto them that the supreme head or gouernour of any Church is the supreme magistrate of that coÌ„mon weale which no man hauing his right minde will denie Therfore if the king may rightly and worthily be named the supreme head or gouernour of that Churche as nowe this good whyle is done in Englande the same king shall also necessarily haue the facultie of working all those things which of that magistrate of that Churche may be wrought otherwyse he is not the gouernour of that Church in respecte it is a Church But in euery christian kingdome there are and ought to be many that shoulde preache the worde of God to the faythfull that shoulde baptise in the name of the father and of the sonne of the holy ghost the nations coÌ„uerted that should remitte sinnes that shoulde make the sacrament of thanksgiuing distribute it therfore he that is the supreme gouernour of any Church ought to be endowed with such power that no law should let wherby he might the lesse fulfil do al these things But a secular king although he be a christian can not do these things by the
force of his royall power oâ—… else a woman also might bothe teache in the Churche and also remitte sinnes and baptise orderly and solemnly and minister the sacrament of thankesgiuing For sithe bothe by the lawe of nations it is receyued that a woman may be admitted to the gouernment of a kingdome and in Moses lawe it is written when a man shall dye without a sonne the enheritance shall passe to the daughter but a kingdome commeth among many nations in the name of enheritaÌ„ce And sithe Debora the Prophetesse iudged the people of Israell and also Athalia and Alexandra haue reigned in Iurie it appeareth playnly that the kingly right appertayneth no lesse to women than to men VVhich also is to be sayde of children bicause according to the Apostle the heire though he be a childe is Lorde of all And Ioas began to raygne when he was seuen yere olde and Iosias reigned at the eight yere of his age But a childe for the defecte of iudgement a woman for the imbecillitie of hir kinde is not admitted to the preaching of Gods worde or to the solemne administration of the Sacraments I permit not sayth the Apostle a woman to teache For it is a shame for a woman to speake in the Churche and the same Apostle sayth that the heire being a childe diffreth nothing from a seruant But it is not the ecclesiasticall custome that he which remayneth yet a seruaunt shoulde be a minister of the Churche Sith therefore in the right of a kingdome the cause is all one of a man of a woman and of a childe but of like causes there is like and all one iudgement but neither childe nor woman and therevpon neither man also that is nothing else but king can do those things in his kingdome which of other ministers of the churche of God are necessarily to be done therfore it commeth to passe that neither the same king can rightly be called the supreme gouernour and head of the Church wherin he liueth All this long argument standeth stil on the foresayd principle that a supreme head or gouernour must be such a person as may do all the actions of all the offices belonging to all the parties gouerned But this is a false principle as alredy is manifestly declared therfore al this long driuen argument is to no purpose The Prince for all this may stil be the supreme head or gouernour ouer all Ecclesiastical persons so well as temporall in all their ecclesiasticall causes so well as in temporall although he himselfe can not exercise all ecclesiasticall functions nor doe himselfe all the ecclesiasticall actions of all ecclesiastical persons For else he might also be debarred of all supremacie ouer all ciuill and temporall persons in all their ciuill and temporall causes bicause he can not himselfe exercise all the ciuil and temporall offices nor do himselfe all the ciuill and temporall actions of all the ciuill and temporall persons neyther And so shoulde â—…e cleane be debarred from supremacie in either power nor haue any supreme gouernment at all Nowe taking this your false principle pro confesso â–ª after your wonted maner ye would driue vs to an absurditie as ye suppose by bringing in more examples of a woman and a chyld reasoning thus A pari from the like A woman and a child may be as well a supreme gouernor as may a man and hath as good right thereto But a woman or a childe can not be a supreme gouernour in causes Ecclesiasticall Ergo A man can not be a supreme gouernour neither in causes Ecclesiasticall For to this conclusion the force of bothe the promisses naturally driueth the argument I know ye clap in a paire of parenthesis saying in your coÌ„clusion neither a man also that is nothing else but a king But sith these wâ—…r des ar neither in the maior nor the minor the coÌ„clusion is plain â–ª that a man can not be a Supreme gouernor in causes Ecclesiasticall And I pray ye then tell me who shall be the supreme gouernour in ecclesiasticall causes if neyther man woman nor chyld may be wherby are not only excluded ciuill Princes but youre Popes are debarred from it Pope Ioane and Pope Iohn also For if they vse that order in the election to haue a Cardinall féele that all be safe yf the Uersicle be sayde Testiculos habet howe can the quyre meryly syng in the responce Deo gratias If hée be founde to bée a man he can not be supreme gouernoure Maister Saunders therefore muste néedes mende thys argumente or else the Popes for whome he writes this boke wyl con him small thanks except that they be Eunuches But Master Saunders not marking the sequele of hys conclusion fortifieth the parts of his argument To confirme the maior A woman and a childe may be as wel a supreme gouernour as a man he citeth the lawe Num. 27. he citeth ensamples Debora Athalia and Alexandra for women For children he citeth the Apostle Gal. 4. and the ensamples of Ioas and Iosias But these proues are superfluous sith the controuersie is not on the maior but on the minor Which minor is the point in controuersie and denied of vs that a woman or a childe can not be a supreme gouernour in causes ecclesiastical To confirme this minor for a woman he alleageth that she can not be admitted to preache the woorde of God remit sinnes nor baptize orderly and solemnely nor administer the Lordes Supper bothe for the imbecillitie of hir kinde and for Saint Paules prohibition of teaching in the Church For a chyld he lykewise can not do the same things as well for defect of iudgement in his nonage as for Sainte Paules witnesse that he differs not from a seruant But the Churches vse is not for seruantes to doe these things and so not for children to do them Here for confirmation of his minor master Sanders rusâ—…s to his false former principle that if the woman the chyld be supreme gouernors in these things then muste they be able themselues to do these things But they cannot do these thinges themselues Ergo they can haue no supreme gouernmeÌ„t in them But this reason is alreadie taken away and therfore al this argumeÌ„t falles We graunt it is true that neither women nor children can do these things And therfore the Papistes are to blame that suffer women to bapatize and to saye or sing in theyr quyres theyr ordinarie seruice and reade the Lessons Wee graunte them also that no men neyther but suche as bée lawfully called therevnto maye themselues exercise and do these things but doth this fellow they may not therfore haue a gouernment ouer those that doo them in their orderly doing of them if this were true then take away all their gouernement ouer all lay persons and all ciuil causes too For neyther women can nor ought them selues to do all that men béeing their subiects can and ought to
had not deliuered vs from it and yet sée if these Papistes that can so narrowly spie and proll at euery note in king Henry and kings Edwards dayes can in Quéene Maries dayes espie anye one of these great beames that were such apparante tokens of gods wrath that all men sawe and felt what euents succeeded the refusall of this title and the yéelding it to the Pope nerehand the cleane subuersion of this Realme if we may iudge by sequels Now after Quéene Marie he comes to the Quéenes Maiestie that now God be praised most prosperously raigneth ouer vs. But vvhen very many giuen to heresies vvere offended at this notable modestie of the Queene neither vvould they yet vnderstande his Counsell in gouerning his Churche God brought to passe that Marie of happie memorie being dead the kingdome of England should deuolue to such a vvoman as novve vvriteth hir selfe The supreme gouernesse in all matters and causes asvvell ecclesiasticall as secular That yet so at the length by the successe it selfe men of hard harte and obstinate necke mighte marke hovv euill king Henry tooke this office vpon him the vvhiche of his heire and successour could not duely and orderly be fulfilled For to whom it is not permitted to teach vvhich is the most necessarie office of an ecclesiasticall Head hovv shal she performe those greater offices that are occupied in the chastisement and correction of them that ought to teache the people or shall she vvhich is vnvvorthie that she should hir selfe teache publiquely in the lovvest degree moderate and reprehend vvith lavvful authoritie other publique teachers in the highest degree or if she can not lavvfully reprehend them shall she yet be lavvfully supreme gouernesse of the Church I omit here the things that in these yeares vvhich are last passed haue bene I knovv not hovv vncomely done and preached in Englande vnder such supreme heads of the Church I spare the dignitie of theÌ„ that gouerne Another time if God vvill I vvill handle them particularly hovve greatly both from the lavve of God and from the sentence of the auncient Churche and from righte reason that state of a common vveale is farre in vvhiche any king arrogateth to himselfe the office and name of the supreme head of the Church Is your part so false and weake of proues Maister Saunders that it can win no credite but by discrediting of ours with sclaunders and yet we woulde pardon this in you ascribing it either to some passion of choler against your aduersaries or to blinde affection of your selues that ye call verie manie of vs giuen to heresies hard harted and obstinate necked which are termes fitter to muster in M. Stapletons coÌ„mon places than to stuffe vp M. doctor Saunders volumes howe they redownde vpon your selues let other iudge â–ª that will reade and view of both But if we forgiue you this for our parts shal we stil suffer you to raile vpoÌ„ sclander the Lordes annoynted saying she arrogateth to hir selfe the office and name of the supreme Head of the Church speaking at randon withoute limitation of the Churche as the Pope doth arrogate to himselfe and taketh on hir to be an ecclesiasticall head and publique teacher of other that should teach hir these are too too infamous sclauÌ„ders of hir Maiestie that claimeth no such title nor attempteth any such thing What supreme gouernement is ascribed to hir highnesse we haue tolde you a thousand times but I sée ye will not vnderstand it bicause ye would of set purpose sclander it But to knit vp your argument of the euent and sequele of the Quéenes Maiesties raigne ye say many things haue bin done and preached in England ye cannot tell hovv vnsemely â—… thinke euen the same M. Saunders ye can not tell howe â—…ndede But howe vnseemely a thing is this for one of your â—…rofession to chalenge ye cannot tell what nor howe ye set owne nothing but vnder a pretence of sparing vs to bréede â—…et a furder sclaunderous suspition ye threat vs that ye will â—…serue theÌ„ til a furder leisure that is to say ad Kalendas graecas til â—…e shall first know them and then be able to proue them in the meane seasoÌ„ ye take the wisest way to say such ther are but what they are ye cannot now tell ye wil learne theÌ„ out and tell vs another time but tell the worste ye canne ye shal neuer be able to tell of any fals doctrine preached and by the Prince approued to be preached nor of anye wicked facte allowed by publike authoritie to be done No Maister Saunders in all the Quéenes Maiesties raigne ye can neuer be able to proue any suche things but in the raigne of your Popes we can proue many such things as whordome committed and maintained murder done and maintained Idolatry vsed and maintained and infinite errors preached and maintained by publique authoritie among the Papists As for the Quéenes maiesties raigne that now is if the euent and sequele may make an argument God hath so blessed it maugre all your spites and practises that no Realme christian hath florished like nor Englande more at anye tyme The Lord be praised for it and for his mercie sake long continue it that hath giuen so goodly a token of his well liking hir Maiesties supreme gouernment The thirde Chapter The argument is that Princes can not iudge nor define in causes Ecclesiasticall OF those errors that are about the povver of kings and magistrats the secoÌ„d error is of theÌ„ that thinke kings are not in dede the chief heads of the Churches in vvhich they raigne but in certaine causes Ecclesiastiall to bee euen as vvorthie members as Bishops â–ª for although in one certaine thing as in the office of teaching they preferre Bishops before kings yet partly in another Ecclesiasticall matter as in deposing a Byshop from his seat or in moderating any synode they preferre kings before Bishops partly they vvill haue it free for kings that almoste in euery ecclesiasticall matter they may knowe and decerne as Iudges Of the confutation of whiche errour this is the reason that I should shewe in euery cause of the ecclesiastical lawe that is to be knowne and iudged Kinges to be so muche in the place of priuate men that this trial can not of the ecclesiasticall Iudges be committed vnto them Although I denie not but that of some facte that perteyneth to the eccl. lawe the knowledge may be committed to Kinges and Magistrates But before the eccl. cause be known the king may orderly intermeddle his authoritie to that ende that a quiet place may be graunted where the Bishops should iudge And also that the Bishops may be called at a certayne day to that place And that in the meane season whyle the ecclesiasticall cause is knowne the publique peace yea euen in the assembly of Priestes may be conserued To conclude after the cause knowne and iudged of the Pristes the king either by the sworde that he
〈◊〉 the Pope taketh vpon him to pronouÌ„ce they be no Kings are no longer Kings except he will make him selfe God yea and aboue God too For althoughe God say They â—…gne not by me â–ª yet he calleth them kinges But the Pope calleth them vâ—…urpers that raygne not by him Secondly he alleageth the acknowledging of Ionathas Saules sonne the peoples gathering vnto Dauid For Io nathas it is true that he acknowledged the kingdome shold be deuolued vnto Dauid after his fathers deathe â–ª And so he saith Tu regnabis super Israel Thou shalt raigne ouer Israell I shall be next to thee and this my father knoweth But this inferreth not that he tooke Dauid then presently to be king and his faâ—…her from that day forwarde no longer to be king neither reuolted he from the obedience of his father to Dauids obedience neither could his father lay this treason to his charge that he forsooke his due subiection although most bitterly 〈◊〉 rated him and sayde Thou sonne of the wicked rebellious woman do not I knowe that thou haste chosen the sonne of Isai to thy confusion to the confusion and shame of thy mother For as long as the sonne of Isai liueth vpon the earth thou shalt not be established nor thy kingdome Whereon sayth Caietane the cause is made manyfest bicause he was an impediment to the succession of the kingdome and verily Saule had a true iudgement as the euent of the matter proued And thus the acknowledging of Ionathas proued not Dauids kingdome to be in esse as they say but in futuro not that he was King but that he should be King. Nor the confederacie betwéene Dauid and Ionathas was any conspiracie to depose Saule or to set vp Dauid but a confirming of the loue betwéene them and their houses when God should make him king Nowe for the peoples gathering vnto Dauid about the number of 400. this was not to assemble a rebellious multitude to inuade king Saule to depose him froÌ„ the crowne to set vp him selfe For neither they came for any such purpose but for their succor béeing in debt trouble or otherwise vexed neither did Dauid send for them nor incite any to take his part not proclaimed him selfe to be king or published the Lords anoynting of him or euer vsed that multitude that came vnto him for any suche purposes And yet the question is moued bothe by Caietanus and Lyranus héerevpon The question saythe Caietanus atiseth whether it were lawfull for Dauid to receiue these debters in the preiudice of the creditors that had lent them The solution is that if these men had house field or vineyard they are vnderstoode to haue lefte their goodes vnto them But if they were vtterly vnable to pay their debts they were excused for their vnhabilitie vntill their better habilitie For that Dauid excellently instructed all them that came vnto him while he â—…aried in that caue the Psalme restifieth I will prayse the Lorde at all time Conteyning according to the letter a doctrine giuen there of Dauid vnto the souldiors Therfore Dauid receiued not these men in preiudice of their creditors And thus as he did not receiue them to the preiudice of any priuate man so he receiued them not to the preiudice of the king and publike state Wheron Lyra moneth the other questioÌ„ saying In that he became their captain it seemeth he sinned in receiuing suche as Abimelech receiued the needie and vagabounds assembling theÌ„ vnto him as is contayned Iud. 9. VVe muste say that he gathered them not to slay the innocent as did Abimelech to slay his brethren neither to spoyle the faythfull For we reade not that he spoyled the people of Israell But rather kepte their goodes as is contayned afterwarde 1. Keg 25. of Naball But he gathered them to persecute the Infidels as is contayned afterwarde in many cases And to keepe his owne body from the ambushementes of Saule The which he mighte do in suche a necessitie chiefly when he was nowe anoynted king By reason whereof in suche a case he might prolong the payment of the debtes and in many the forfeyture is released in the case aforesayde Thus sée it was not for that the people tooke Dauid actually to be king but for their owne refuge that they fled to him But whatsoeuer their intent was good or ill Dauid assembled them not to hinder or hurte any priuate or publike person And althoughe he receiued them and vsed them for his defence whiche he mighte do béeing in the state he was yet woulde he neuer suffer them to enter medle in the quarell of his righte to the kingdome nor yet he him selfe woulde euer take it vpon him and impugne king Saule no not when he had him in hys daunger vntyll the Lorde by other meanes tooke Saule away and gaue the kingdome in reall possession vnto Dauid Before whiche time Dauid neuer called him selfe king nor the time of his raygne is reckoned but Saule counted and called and his raigne reckoned as king till his death and neuer shortned disturbed nor once gayne sayd by Dauid for all these folkes assemblies For example When God sent king Saule as it were of purpose euen into Dauids handes and the souldiers moued Dauid to kill him he would neither him selfe hurt him nor suffer any other to do it nor yet take him prisoner so depose him or cause him to resigne But only cut off priuily a flap of his garment for a testimonie howe he spared him yet his heart throbbed that he had done so muche agaynst him His conscience reproued him sayth Lyra in that he had done vnreuerently to Saule who was to be honored so long as he was of God suffred in the kingdome A certaine remorce of conscience sayth Caietane is described in Dauid in that he had cutoff the skirte of Saules cloake For it is the propertie of good mindes euen there to feare a fault where faulte is not found The reason of his remorce was bicause the cutting of the cloake was in his proper kinde iniurious Howbeit it was without fault both bicause it was giuen vnto him by Gods authoritie to do with Saule that whiche seemed good in Dauids owne eies and also good reason moued that Dauid mighte shewe a signe of his beneuolence towardes Saule by a most euident testimonie conuicting Saule that yet at the least Saule might leaue off from so wicked persecution But a better testimony he could not shewe than the skirte of his garment there cut off the action therfore naturally iniurious was not done in the forme of an iniurie but of a necessarie signe to witnesse the truthe of Dauids right mind to Saule â–ª And this good minde Dauid him selfe expresseth The Lorde keepe me from doing this thing vnto my Lorde the Lords anoynted to lay mine hande on him for he is the Lords anoynted And héere Caietanus giueth this note