damnationem quia primam fidem irritam fecerunt Incurring damnation because they haue broken their first promise Againe in the first yeare of our gratious Queene the Acte of Parliament for making and consecrating of Bisshoppes made the .28 of kinge Henrye was reuiued And yet the Bisshoppes were ordered not accordinge to the acte but according to an acte made in kinge Edwarde his dayes and repelled by Quene Marye and not reuiued the sayde first yeare And yf they will say that that defecte is nowe supplied let them yet remember that they are but parliament and no Churche Bisshoppes and so no Catholike Bisshoppes as being ordered in such manner and fasshion as no Catholike Church euer vsed But thys is most to be considered and to be lamented of all thinges that wheras no Acte of Parliament can geue anye sufficient warrant to discharge a man from the Catholike faythe and wheras yt was aswel in king Hēries dayes by Acte of Parliament as euer before through out all Churches of Christendome sithens we were christened taken for playne and open heresie to denie the reall presence of Christes bodye in the Sacramente of the aulter for maynteining of the which heresie there is no acte of Parliamēt God be thancked neither of king Edwardes tyme nor in the tyme of our graciouse soueraygne Ladie and Quene that nowe is yet doe these men teache and preache and by writing defend and maynteine the saied greate and abhominable heresie with many other for the which they can shewe no warrante of anye temporall or spirituall lawe that euer hath bene made in Englande All this haue I spoken to shewe it is most true that I haue saied that there will neuer be redresse of errour and heresie or any staie where men are once gone from the vnitie of the See Apostolike which is the welspring and fountaine of all vnitie in the Catholike faith And touching this question of the Supremacie that we haue in hand if we wel consider it we shall find that we doe not agree either with the other Protestantes or with our selues For in this pointe that we make the Prince the supreme head of the Churche we neither agree with Luther him selfe or his scholers which denie this primacie nor with Caluin and his scholers the Sacramentaries Caluin saieth They were blasphemers that called King Henrie head of the Church One of his scholers Iacobus Acontius in a booke dedicated to the Queenes Mai. blameth openly the ciuil magistrate that maketh him selfe the Iudge of controuersies or by the aduise of other commaundeth this doctrine to be published that to be suppressed Nowe some of Caluins scholers and our owne countriemen haue taken forth such a lesson that they haue auouched in their bookes printed and publisshed to the world that a woman can neither be head of the Church nor of any Realme at all Againe manie of the Protestants though they will not the Pope should haue the chiefe gouernement because they like not his true doctrine yet they thinke it meete and conuenient that there be some one person ecclesiasticall that maie haue this supreme gouernement for matters of the Church It is also to be considered that the wordes of the Othe nowe tendered for the mainteining of the Princes Supremacie are other then they were in King Henries or King Edwardes daies with a certaine addition of greatest importance and such as to a ciuil Prince specially to the person of a woman can in no wise be with any conuenient sense applied I meane of these wordes Supreme Gouernour aswell in all spirituall or ecclesiasticall thinges or causes as temporall Such large and ample wordes were in neither of the foresaied Kings times put into the Othe And yet had they bene more tolerable in their persons for that men be capable of spiritual gouernmēt frō the which a woman is expresly by nature and by scripture excluded then they are nowe These wordes are such I saie as can not with any colourable pretext be excused Neither is it inough to saie as the Iniunctions doe that the Quenes Maiestie entendeth not to take more vpon her then King Henrie her father or King Edward her brother did what so euer that were more or lesse but it must be also considered what she or her Successours may take vpon her or them by the largenes of these wordes for an Iniunction can not limit an Acte of Parliament and whether there be any either Scripture or other good doctrine ecclesiastical sufficient to satisfie their consciences that refuse especially this Othe Which doth not only as it did before exclude the Apostolical See and all Generall Councelles also as though not in plaine wordes yet in effect in excluding the ecclesiastical Authoritie of al foren persons and Prelates but doth further adioyne the foresaied newe addition lesse probable and lesse tolerable then was any other parte of the former Othe And therefore certaine Protestants of some name and reputation being tendred this Othe by commission haue refused it Yea and how well trow you is this supreme Gouuernement liked of those Ministers which withstand the Quenes iniunctions touching the order of semely Apparell c Thus ye perceyue that as we are gone from the constante and setled doctrine of the Church touching this primacy so we agree not no not among our selues either in other pointes or in thys very Article of the Supremacy Neither shal we euer fynd anie cause of good and sufficiente contentation or constancye in doctrine vntill we returne thither from whence we first departed that is to the See Apostolike Which of al other people our Nation hath euer most reuerenced and honoured and ought of al other most so to doe As from whence both the Britaines and Saxons receiued first the Christian faith This returne God of his mercie graunt vs when it shall be his blessed pleasure Amen In Louaine the last of September An. 1567. Thomas Stapleton ¶ An Aduertisement to the Lerned Reader TOuching certain Authors alleaged in this Reply about matters of our own Countre it is to be vnderstanded that of certayne writen Copies not yet printed which we haue vsed as of Henricus Huntingtonensis and Gulielmus Neubrigensis or Noueoburgensis or Neoburgensis many thinges are in the said Copies which seme not to be writen of thē but of Some others As in the Copie of Henricus Huntingtonensis certayne thinges are founde which seme not to be writen of him but to haue bene gathered out of his workes and to haue bene writen by some other whom we coniecture to be Simeon Dunelmensis Also in the Copie of our Neubrigensis many thinges are added both at the beginning and at the ende which seme not to haue ben writen by Neubrigensis him self but by some other And that which is added at the beginning was writen as we vnderstand nowe of one Alphredus Beuerlacensis who liued vnder king Steuen The additions which do followe who wrote we yet knowe not except it were Roger Houeden This I
of M. Fekenhams conscience whiche scruples rose and prycked his consciēce by and throughe such reasons and causes first vttered by talke and after by writing alleaged wherein I pray yow hath M. Fekenham offended you M. Horne so greuouslye that therfore he should be noted of so vntrue reporte that there is not almost one true worde in the title of his treatise that he should be noted of ambiguouse sleights yea and of malice to in prefixinge the sayed tytle to his Treatise And that he should conueigh vntrueth vnder coulorable and ambiguouse meaning as not obseruing the circumstance of time place and person What inconuenience is it I praie you though M. Fekenham wrote in the Tower that whiche he deliuered to M. Horne at Waltham What inconuenience followeth I praye you if he minded first to deliuer the same to his examiners in the Tower or els where as occasion should serue Is this sufficient to disproue him to condemne him to slaunder him of surmised vntruth It is rather to be thought of such as are not malitiouse to be plaine dealing not to dissemble with you but euen as he had penned the writing before so without any alteration to deliuer it Who neuerthelesse afterward hauing occasiō to exhibit and present the same writing to others did simplie without guile or deceipt signifie it to be deliuered vnto you at Waltham And was it not so Denie it if you can Euerie Childe by this may see how fonde and foolish this your cauil is But what is all this to the matter and thing now in hand It is as your selfe confesse but a circumstance But M. Horne now himselfe keepeth so little his owne rules and precepts of circumstance that beside the miserable and wretched peruerting and deprauing of his owne authors he doth so often and so malitiously omit and concele the due circumstances of things by him reported necessary for the full illustration and opening of the whole and entiere matter that concerning this fault which he vniustly and triflingly obiecteth to M. Fekenham he may most iustly haue the prick and price as they say But now that I remember and aduise my selfe a litle better I suppose I can not altogether excuse M. Fekenham for this title but must race out therof foure words and in steed of Lord Busshop of Winchester set in M. Robert Horne M. Fekenham dissembling and winking at the common error whereby in the estimation of many ye are both called and taken for the Bishoppe of Winchester whereas in deede ye are but an vsurper and an intruder as called thereto by no lawfull and ordinary vocation nor canonicall consecration of his great modestie and ciuilitie willing the lesse to exasperate yowe and others thowghe he well knewe ye were no right bysshop yet after the vsuall sort calleth and termeth yow Lorde Bysshop of Winchester But I must be so bolde by your leaue as plainelye and bluntelye to goe to worke with yowe as I haue done before with M. Grindall and M. Iewel yowr pewefellowes and to remoue from you this glorious glittering Pecoks taile and to call a figge a figge and a horne a horne and to saye and that moste truely that ye are no Lorde Byshoppe of Winchester nor els where but onely M. Robert Horne For albeit the Prince may make a Lorde at her gratious pleasure whome shee liketh yet can shee not make you Lorde Bisshoppe of Winchester considering yee are not Lorde but in respecte of some Baronage and temporalties belonging and annexed to the See of Winchester But you vsurping the See as you are no Bishoppe so for the consideration aforesaid yee are no Lorde nor Prelate of the Garter For yee can be no Prelate of the Garter being no Prelate at al that being a prerogatiue appropriate to the Prelate and Bishoppe of Winchester Now that you are no true Bisshoppe it is euident by that your vocation is direct contrarie to the Canons and Constitutions of the Catholik Churche and to the vniuersall custome and manner heretofore vsed and practised not onely in Englande but in all other Catholique Countries and Churches deliuered to vs from hande to hande from age to age euen from the firste graffing and planting of the faith especially in England For the whiche I referre mee to all autentique and aunciente recordes as well of Englande as of other Nations concerning the ordinarie succession of Byshoppes namelye in the foresayed See of Winchester For there was not no not one in that See that did not acknoweledge the Supremacye of the See of Rome and that was not confirmed by the same vntil the late time of Maister Poynet who otherwise also was but an vsurper the true Byshop then liuing and by no lawfull and Ecclesiasticall order remoued or depriued Yee are therefore the firste Bisshoppe of this sewte and race and so consequentlye no Byshoppe at all as not able to shewe to whome yee did ordinarilie succede or anye good and accustomable eyther vocation or consecration Whiche point being necessarilie required in a Bishoppe and in your Apostles Luther and Caluin and other lacking as I haue otherwhere sufficientlye proued though you by deepe silence thinke it more wisedome vtterlie to dissemble then ones to answere they being therewith pressed were so meshed and bewrapped therein that they coulde not in this worlde wytte what to saye thereto answering this and that they wist nere what nor at what point to holde them Yea Beza was faine in the last assemblie at Poisy with silence to cōfesse the inuincible truth But let it so be that your vocation was good and sound yet haue you disabled your self to occupie that roome and either ought not to be admitted or forthwith ought ye to be remoued for that ye are yoked or as ye pretende maried and as wel for the maintenāce therof as of many other abhominable errors in case you stand obstinately in them no doubt an Heretike That ye liue in pretensed Matrimonie with your Madge al the worlde knoweth colouring your fleshly pleasures vnder the name of an honorable Sacramēt by this your incest wretchedly prophaned and vilained Ye keep now your said Madge in the face of al the worlde without shame whiche in King Henries daies ye kepte in hucker mucker and lusky lanes as many other did of your sort especially M. Cranmer that occupied the See of Cāterburie who caried about with him his prety conie in a chest full of holes that his nobs might take the ayer You wil perchance stande in defence of your pretensed mariage and also of your other heresies and say they are no heresies at all and turne lecherie into wedlock as some of your sorte haue of late daies turned vppon good fridaie a Pigge into a Pike putting the said pigge in the water and saying goe in pigge and come out pike But then I referre you to the olde Canons of the Fathers to the writinges especially of S. Augustine of Epiphanius of Philaster and
Supremacy to rest in the Clergy ād not in the Prince which must obey as well as the other And therefore it is not true that ye saye that M. Fekenhams cause is no deale holpen by this place nor your assertion any thing improued But let vs steppe one steppe farder with you M. Horne vpō the groūd of your present liberalytye lest as you haue begonne you pinche vs yet farder and take away all together from Bishops and Priestes Subiection you say and obedience to the word of God taught and preached by the Bishops c. is commaūded so wel to Princes as to the inferiour sort of the people If so M. Horne howe did a lay parliament vtterly disobey the doctrine of all their Bishoppes and enacte a new contrary to theirs What obediēce was there in that parliament so expressely required here by S. Paule and so dewe euen of Princes them selues as you confesse to their Bishoppes Will you say the Bishoppes then preached not Gods worde And who shal iudge that Shal a lay parliament iudge it Is that the obedience dewe to Bishoppes In case al the Bishops of a realme erred is there not a generall Councell to be sought vnto Are there not other Bishops of other Coūtries to be coūseled Is not al the Church one body In matters of faithe shal we seuer our selues frō our Fathers ād Brethern the whole corps of Christēdome beside by the vertue of an Acte passed by lay mē onely No bishops no Clerke admitted to speake and say his minde O lamentable case God forgeue our dere Countre this most haynouse trespasse Then the which I feare our Realme committed not a more greuous except the first breache in Kinge Henries dayes these many hundred yeares Yet one steppe farder The Prince must obey and be fedde at the Bishoppes hande you confesse What is that Is it not he must learne howe to beleue and howe to serue God Is it not the pastorall office as S Augustin teacheth to open the springes that are hidden and to geue pure and sounde water to the thirsty shepe Is not the shepeheardes office to strenghthen that is weake to heale that is sicke to binde that is broken to bringe home againe that is caste away to seke that is loste and so forthe as the Prophet Ezechiel describeth And what is all this but to teache to correct to instructe to refourme and amende all such thinges as are amisse either in faithe or in good life If so then in case the realme went a stray shoulde not they redresse vs which were pastours and shepheards in Christes Church If our owne shepheards did amisse was there in all Christendom no true Bishoppes beside no faithfull pastour no right shepeheard Verely S. Augustine teacheth at large that it is not possible that the shepheards shoulde misse of the true doctrine What soeuer their life or maners be But put the case so that we may come to an issewe Must then the Prince fede vs alter our Religion sett vp a newe stop the shepheards mouthes plaie the shepheard him self Is this M. Horne the obedience that you teach Princes to shew to their shepheards God forgeue them that herein haue offended and God in whose hands the harts of Princes are inspire with his blessed grace the noble hart of our most gracious Souerain the Quenes Maiesty that her highnes may see and consider this horrible and deadly inconuenience to the which your most wicked and blasphemouse doctrine hath induced her grace You are the woulfe M. Horne And therfore no marueile if you procure to tie the shepheard fast and to mousell the dogges The .158 Diuision Pag. 97. b. M. Fekenham And when your L. shall be able to proue that these wordes of Paule Mulieres in Ecclesijs taceant c. Let the wemen kepe silence in the Churche for it is not permitted vnto them there to speake but let them liue vnder obedience like as the Law of God appointeth thē and if they be desirous to learne any thing let them aske their husbands at home for it is a shameful and rebukeful thing for a woman to speake in the Church of Christ. When your L. shal be able to proue that these wordes of Paule were not as wel spoken of Quenes Duchesses and of noble Women as of the meane and inferiour sorte of Women like as these wordes of almightie God spoken in the plague and punishment first vnto our mother Eue for her offence and secondarily by her vnto al women without exception vidz Multiplicabo aerumnas c. I shal encrease thy dolours sorowes and conceiuings and in paine and trauaile thou shalt bring forth thy children thou shalt liue vnder the authority power of thy husbād and he shal haue the gouernment and dominion ouer thee Whan your L. shall be able to proue anye exception to be made eyther in these woordes spoken in the olde lawe by the mouth of God eyther in the wordes before spoken of the Apostle Paule in the newe than I shall in like māner yeelde and with most humble thankes thinke my selfe very well satisfied in conscience not onely touching all the afore alleaged testimonies but also in this seconde chiefe pointe M. Horne I doe graunte the vvoordes of the holie Scriptures in bothe these places to be spoken to al states of vvomen vvithout exception But vvhat make they for your purpose hovve doe they conclude and confirme your cause VVomen muste be silent in the Churche and are not permitted to speake That is as your ovvne Doctour Nicolaus de Lyra expoundeth it women muste not teache and preache the doctrine in the Churche neyther dispute openlye Therefore our Sauiour Christe dyd not committe to Kinges Queenes and Princes the Authoritie to haue and take vppon them .538 anye parte of gouernement in Ecclesiasticall causes As .539 though a younge Nouice of your Munkishe ordre shoulde haue argued Nunnes muste keepe silence and maye not speake in the Cloysture nor yet at Dynner tyme in the fraytrie therefore your deceyuer the Pope dyd not committe Authoritie to his Prouincialles Abbottes Priores and Prioresses to haue and take vppon them the gouernement vnder hym selfe in Munkishe and Nunnishe causes and matters VVhat man vvoulde haue thought Maister Feckēham to haue had so .540 little consideration although vnlearned as to vouche the silence of vvomen in the Churche for a reason to improue the Authoritie of Princes in Churche causes The .3 Chapter Of M. Fekenhams third reason taken out of S. Paule also .1 Cor. 14. Stapleton MAister Feckenham his thirde reason is that women are not permitted to speake in the Church and therefore they can not be the heads of the Church To this M. Horn answereth first that this place of S. Paul must be vnderstanded of teaching preaching and disputing and that therfore it wil not follow thereof that they may not take vpō thē any gouernment in Ecclesiastical causes And then being merily
other that among other heresies recite some of those that you openly and your fellowes maintaine Yf ye will reiect the poore Catholiques S. Augustine and Epiphanius also yet I trust you will not be against your owne famouse Apologie whiche saith that Epiphanius nombreth fourscore Heresies of the which it is one for a man after the order of Priesthode to marie and S. Augustine a greater nomber and so concludeth you and the residue to be heretikes If ye wil denie ye mainteine any of those heresies your preachings your teachings and writings beare full and open testimony against you What then haue you to iustifie your cause You wil happely forsake and abandon S. Augustines authoritie withal the olde Canons and Councels and flye vnder the defence of your brickle bulwarke of Actes of Parliament O poore and sely helpe o miserable shift that our faith should hang vppon an acte of Parliamente contrary as wel to all actes of Parliament euer holden in Englande before as to the Canons and Fathers of the Catholike Churche A strange and a wonderfull matter to heare in a Christian common welth that matters of faith are Parliament cases That ciuill and prophane matters be conuerted into holie and Ecclesiasticall matters Yea and that woorse is that Laie men that are of the folde onely not shepheards at all and therefore bounde to learne of their Catholique Bisshoppes and Pastours may alter the whole Catholique Religion maugre the heades of all the Bishoppes and the whole Conuocation This is to trouble all things this is as it were to confounde togeather heauen and earth But yet let vs see the prouidence of God These men that relinquishing the Church would hang only vpoÌ„ a Parliament are quite forsaken yea euen there where they loked for their best helpe For I praye you what warrant is there by acte of Parliament to denie the Real presence of Christes bodie in the holie Eucharistia Is it not for anye Parliament as well heresie nowe as it was in Quene Maries King Henries or anye other Kinges dayes What can be shewed to the contrarie Doth not Luther your first Apostle and his schollers defie you therefore as detestable Heretiques Nowe concerning Transubstantiation and adoration is it not well knowen thinke you that in King Edwardes dayes there was a preaty legerdemaine played and a leafe putt in at the printing which was neuer proposed in the Parliamente What Parliamente haue your Preachers to denye free will and the necessitie of baptizing children Againe I pray you is there any Acte to confirme your vnlawful mariage Doth not in this point the Canonicall Lawe stande in force as well nowe as in King Henries daies And so doth it not followe that yee are no true Bishoppe Beside is it not notoriouse that yee and your Colleages were not ordeined no not according to the prescripte I wil not say of the Churche but euen of the verye statutes Howe then can yee challenge to your selfe the name of the Lord Bisshoppe of Winchester Whereof bothe the Municipall and Ecclesiasticall Lawe dothe woorthelye spoyle you Wherefore as I sayed let vs dashe out these wordes and then no reasonable man shall haue any great cause to quarell against the Title of M. Fekenhams Treatise The .2 Diuision M. Horne The booke by you deliuered vnto mee touching the Othe was writen in the Tovver of London as you your selfe confessed and the true title therof doth plainly testifie in the time of the ParliameÌ„t holden Anno quinto of the Q. Maiestie Ianua 12. at which time you litle thought to haue soiourned with me the winter follovving and much lesse meant to deliuer me the scruples and staies of your coÌ„science in writing to be resolued at my hands And although you would haue it seeme by that you haue published abroade that the cause why you wrot was to be resolued my hande yet the trueth is as you your selfe reported that you and your Tovver fellovves hearing that the Statute moued for the assuraunce of the Queenes royall povver would passe and be establissed did conceiue that immediately after the same Session Commissioners shoulde be sente vnto you to exact the Othe VVhereuppon you to be in some readines to withstande and refuse the duetie of a good subiecte .8 not without helpe of the reste as may be gathered deuised the matter conteyned in the booke committed the same to writing and purposed to haue deliuered it for your ansvvere touching the Othe of the Supremacy to the CoÌ„missioners if they had come This may appere by the Title of that booke that you first deliuered to me which is worde for worde as follovveth The answere made by M. Iohn Fekenham Priest and prisoner in the Tower to the Quenes highnes Commissioners touching the Oth of the Supremacie In this Title there is no mencion of scruples and stayes deliuered to the Bisshoppe of VVinchester but of aunsvveare to the Queenes Commissioners I am not once named in the â—itle ne yet in the looke deliuâ—â—â—â— to mee neither is there one worde as spoken to me although in the 〈…〉 abroad you turne all as spoken to me â—n your booke published aâ—e 〈…〉 kinds of speaches To the L. Bishop of VVinchestâ— VVhen youâ— L. shal be able c. I shall ioyne this issue vvith your L. c. But it is farre othervvise in your booke deliuered to me namely To the Queenes highnes coÌ„missioners VVhen ye the Queenes highnes coÌ„missioners shal be hable c. I shal ioine this issue vvith you that vvhen any one of you the Queenes hignes coÌ„missioners c. From October at what time you were sent to me vnto the end of Ianuarie there was daily conference betvvixt vs in matters of Religion but chiefly touching the foure pointes which you terme scruples and stayes of conscience and that by worde of mouth and not by any writing In all which points ye vvere .9 so ansvvered that ye had nothing to obiect but seemed resolued and in a maner fully satisfied VVhervpon I made aftervvard relation of .10 good meaning tovvards you to certain honorable persons of the good hope I had coÌ„ceiued of your conformity At whiche time a certaine friend of yours standing by and hearing what I had declared then to the honorable in your coÌ„medacion did shortly after .11 reporte the same vnto you which as it seemed you did so much mislike doubting that your confederates should vnderstand of your reuolt .12 which they euer feared hauing experience of your shrinking froÌ„ them at .13 VVestminster in the coÌ„ference there the first yere of the Q. Maiestie that after that time I founde you alvvaies much more repugnaÌ„t and coÌ„trary to that wherin ye before times seemed in maner throughly resolued And also to goe from that you before agreed vnto By reason vvhereof vvhen in debating betvvixt vs you vsinge manye shiftes amongst other did continuallie quarell in Sophistication of vvordes I did vvill you to
vvil seeme somtime in general speach to attribute vnto her the onely Supremacy vnder God ouer her dominions and subiectes vvhich you meane not for vvithin a vvhile after in plaine vvordes you deny the same And your holy Father vvil geue you his curse for that being his svvorne Aduocate at the first entry into the plea you geue from him the vvhole title of his vniust claime to vvit the supreme gouernaunce ouer the Quenes highnes dominions and people You must novv therefore make some shifte and cal to remembraunce one sleight or other by some distinctioÌ„ vvhereby to auoide your holy Fathers curse that you may continue vnder his blessing You vvill expounde your meaning by restreyning the supreme gouernment of the Queenes maiesty onely in causes Temporal and not in causes or things Ecclesiasticall But thâ—s distinction commeth to late and vvil doe you no ease for that in both these kindes of causes you haue already graunted vnto her the only supreme gouernmeÌ„t and that as you verily think persuaded in conscience vvheruppon you offer to receiue a corporal Othe vpon the Euangelistes And this your graunt passed froÌ„ you by these vvords Ouer al maner persones borne vvithin her dominions of vvhat estate either Ecclesiastical or Temporal so euer they be In this that you graunt vnto her highnes thouly supreme rule ouer the Lay and Ecclesiastical personnes you haue also concluded therevvith in all causes both Ecclesiastical and Temporal vvhich is plainly and firmely proued by this argument follovving A supreme gouernour or ruler is one vvho hath to ouersee guyde care prouide order and directe the things vnder his gouernment and rule to that ende and in .20 those actions vvhich are appointed and doe properly belonge to the subiect or thing gouerned So that in euery gouernment and rule there are thre things necessarely coÌ„curraÌ„t the Gouernor the Subiect or mattier gouerned and the obiect or mattier vvherabout and vvherein the gouernement is occupied and doth consiste But the Quenes highnes by your ovvne confession is the only supreme gouernour ouer al manner persones Ecclesiastical borne vvithin her dominions Ergo Her highnes thonely supreme gouernour ouer such persones hath to ouersee guyde care prouide order and directe them to that ende and in those actioÌ„s vvhich are appointed and doe 21. properly belonge to Ecclesiastical persones And so by good consequent you haue renounced al foreine gouernment For this exclusiue Onely doth shut out all other from supreme gouernment ouer Ecclesiastical personnes and also yee doe .22 affirme the Quenes maiesty to be supreme gouernour in those actions vvhich are appointed and that doe properly belong to Ecclesiastical persones vvhich are no other but things or causes Ecclesiastical The 4. Chapter how princes be supreme gouernours ouer al ecclesiastical persons their subiects and yet not in al Ecclesiastical matters HEre is first a worshipfull reason and cause to marueyle at M. Fekenham that he shoulde by writing presently offer him selfe to receiue an othe because he neuer made mention of anie suche Othe before neither any suche was at anye tyme of him required Surelye this is as greate a cause to wonder at as to see a gose goe barefote But nowe will hee playe the worthye Logician and M. Fekenham wil he nil he shal be driuen by fyne force of a Logical definition to graunte the Quene to be supreme head in al causes ecclesiasticall for that he graunteth her to be supreame heade of al persons bothe ecclesiastical and temporal Because saieth he the supreame gouernour or ruler is he that ordereth and directeth al actions belonging and appointed to the subiects aÌ„d therby inferreth that the Quenes Maiesty is supreame and onely gouernour euen in those actions that belonge to ecclesiastical persons which are causes ecclesiasticall But as good skil as this man hath in Logike which is correspondent to his diuinity he hath browght vs foorth a faulty and a viciouse definition For a Supreame gouernour is he that hath the chief gouermente of the thiÌ„g gouerned not in those Actions that may any way properly belong to the Subiect or thing gouerned as M. Horn saith but in those Actions that belonge to the ende whereunto the gouernour tendeth Which may wel be althowgh he haue not the chief gouerment in al the actions of the thing gouerned but in suche actions as properly appertayne to him as a subiecte to that gouernour For in one man many rulers may and doe dayly concurre whiche in some sense may euery one be called his Supreame gouernours As yf he be a seruant the maister and if he be a son in that respect the Father and yf his father and maister dwel in a city the Maior also is his Fathers and maisters and so his cheif gouernour to for things concerning the ciuil gouernment of the city And of al these the prince chief and supreame gouernour as they be subiects Otherwise the prince doth not intermedle with the fathers office in duetifulnes dewe vnto him by his son nor with the maister for that gouerment he hath vppon his seruante no more then with the schole-mayster for the gouerment of his schollers and their actioÌ„s or the maister of the ship for the actions and doings of the mariners otherwise then any of these offende the positiue Lawes of the realme and so hath the prince to do with him as his subiecte or when he shal haue nede to vse them for the commen welth wherein as subiects and members of the said coÌ„men welth they must to hiÌ„ obey Much like it is with the Spiritual meÌ„ which be also meÌ„bers of the sayde coÌ„men welth aÌ„d therfore in that respect subiect to the priÌ„ce aÌ„d his lawes and so is it true that the priÌ„ce is supream gouernour of al persons aswel spiritual as teÌ„poral but that therfore he should also be Supreame gouernour in al their actions wil no more follow theÌ„ of the actions of them before rehersed Yea much lesse For the better vnderstanding whereof it is to be knoweÌ„ that before the comming of Christ Kinges wer there many but Christian Kinges none Many coÌ„men welthes wer there but no ChristeÌ„ coÌ„meÌ„ welth nor yet godly coÌ„moÌ„ welth properly to speke sauiÌ„g amoÌ„g the Iewes but ciuil and politik The end and final respect of the which ciuil commeÌ„welth was and is vnder the regimeÌ„t of some one or moe persons to whom the multitude coÌ„mitteh theÌ„self to be ordered and ruled by to preserue theÌ„selues from al inward and outwarde iniuries oppressions and enimies and further to prouide not only for their saftie aÌ„d quietnes but for their welth and abundance and prosperouse maintenance also To this ende tendeth and reacheth and no further the ciuile gouernment and to the preseruation tuition and furtherance of this end chiefly serueth the Prince as the principal and most honorable person of the whole state which thing is common as wel to the heathenish as to the Christian gouernment But ouer
and his owne soule also by ministring the occasion therof And the points of this Othe whereunto I can not presently swere without most plaine and manifest periurie are these foure following M. Horne As in that whiche goeth before you couertlie vttered manie vntruthes althoughe sometime yee stoumble on the trueth againste youre will so in the rest you fal to plaine and manifest vntruths least men shuld not perceiue what you are You were neuer required by me to svvere and therfore this is an impudent kind of dealing to saie vvherunto I am presently required to swere c. I had none authoritie nor coÌ„mission to require the Othe of you neither might I tender it vnto you without peril to mie selfe you being coÌ„mitted vnto me by the most honorable CouÌ„cel without whose order I could attempt no suche mattier You haue alreadie shevved in plaine matter although not in plainnesse of speache and that as you thinke and are persvvaded in coÌ„science that her highnes is the supreme gouernour so well in causes Ecclesiastical as temporal For hauing supremacie ouer the Ecclesiastical person the same being not othervvise person Ecclesiastical but in respect of Ecclesiastical functions things and causes annexed and proprelie beloÌ„ging to Ecclesiastical persons shee hath the Supremacie ouer the person in Ecclesiastical functions things and causes these being the only matter or obiect wherabout or wherein the rule ouer an Ecclesiasticall persone is occupied and dothe consiste This seemeth to be your glorie amongst your friendes that you make mee an offer to receiue this parte of the Othe when I shall be able to declare by what meanes you maie svvere without committing plain and manifeste periurie Mine abilitie herein shal appeare in mine ansvvere to your foure points God make you as readie to perform for duties sake as ye wil seme readie to offer wherbie to purchase to your selfe a glorious estimation But wherfore did you not make this offer vnto me either by woord or writing al the time of your aboad with mee You plaâ—e novve after your returne into .25 your holde as you did after the Parliament before you came oute of the Tovver to me VVhen you savve the end of the Parliament and vnderstood right well that the Othe was not like to be tendred vnto you than sent you copies of the booke deuised for the aunsvvere touching the Othe abroad to your friendes to declare your constancie and readines to refuse the Othe wherebie thei might be the rather enduced to continue their good opinion conceiued of you and also paie your charges weekelie in the Tovver sent vnto you .26 euerie Saturdaie by your seruaunt who wrote and deliuered the copies abroade as you tolde me your selfe Nowe you are returned againe into the Tower and perceiuing that your friends as you gaue theÌ„ iust cause haue some .27 mistrust of your reuolte and wauering inconstancie whereby your estimation and fame with their seruice to your God the bellie is decaied you haue deuised to set abroade the selfe same booke againe that you did before and to the selfe same ende altering or chaunging nothing at all sauing that you haue geuen it a nevve name and Title and seeme as in this place as though yee spake to mee by these woordes when your L. c. VVhen as in very deed there was neuer any suche woorde spoken or writen to mee and in the booke you deliuered to mee your speache is directed to the Commissioners and not to me in these words VVhen ye the Quenes highnes coÌ„missioners shal be able c. The fifth Chapter of other priuate doings betwene M. Fekenham and M. Horne YEt ones againe M. Horne taketh in hande M. FekenhaÌ„s grauÌ„t which may wel be grauÌ„ted aÌ„d by his great cuÌ„ning and skilfulnes wil thereof inferre as before that that may not be graunted But nowe he spitteth in his hande and taketh faster holde as he thinketh and seing the lightnes of his former reason would now geue greater weight to it with a newe fetch but yet as light and as weake as the other and employing manifest contradiction as before and to be answered as before For albeit a man is not called an Ecclesiasticall person but in respecte of some Churche cause and function which we freely graunt to M. Horne yet is he neuer a whit the nearer of his purpose vnlesse he caÌ„ proue that there were also no other respecte why he shoulde be vnder the Prince but for causes Ecclesiastical For as we haue said he is a subiect also as other laie men are and a member beside of the ciuil common welth in consideration whereof the Prince hath to doe with him and not properlie as he is a Spirituall man though bothe respectes be coÌ„currant in one person and he be named of the worthyer As if M. Robert Horne were a laie man and a Painter the Queene properlye hathe not to dooe with him as a Painter vnlesse it were for some lawe or order concerninge Painters but as Robert Horne her highnes subiecte and borne vnder her obeisance So should the Queene haue also to doe with you yea in case yee were the true Bishop of Winchester but not proprely as Bishop or for your Bishoply function for the whiche ye are immediatlye vnder your Archebishop and the Pope but considering you as a subiect otherwise or as Bishop either touching your temporalties and no farder For the which the true Bishops also doe to their Prince their Homage But what should I further reason with this man which as I haue saied hathe remoued the Prince from all superioritie concerninge the mere Bishoply or Priestly function and so with a notable contradiction hath full worshipfully coÌ„cluded against him selfe eased M. Fekenham also for taking any othe that the Quene is supreame head in al causes temporal and spiritual Here remayneth now for the residew nothing greatlye to be answered but only to shew how M. Horn doth accumulate a huge heap of vntruths as in notiÌ„g in M. FekeÌ„haÌ„ an impudent kind of dealing for writing whereunto I am presently required to sweare which may be truely verefied seing as M. Horne him self confesseth yt was so writeÌ„ in that copy that should haue bene deliuered to the commissioners at such tyme as they should haue presently tendred M. Fekenham the othe and in the same forme and fasshion delyuered to M. Horne and nothing altred in the later copy but that this worde commissioners is turned into the Lorde bisshop of Winchester neither doth M. Fekenham saye whereunto I am required presently to sweare of your L. as he saieth afterward when your L. shal be able c. And therefore there is no maner of impudency or vntruthe in the matter at all how so euer yt be this matter is nothing apperteyning to the state of the principal questioÌ„ and of smal importaunce nothing deseruing to be noted as an impudeÌ„t dealiÌ„g but rather this kind of speach agreeth with M. Horns dealing
Secretarie to the Quenes highnes at Westminster in the canon rewe The third daie was at the white Friers in the house of Syr Iohn Cheke Knight In al the which conferences and disputations with manie learned men he was the truth to confesse muche made of and most gently vsed And this disputation so begunne at London did finishe in Worcester shiere where he was borne and had also a Benefice by the meane whereof and by the special appointmēt of Syr Phillipp Hobbie he came before M. Hooper then taken as Bishoppe of Worcester where he charginge M. Fekenham in the Kinges highnes name to answere him he kept foure seueral and solempne disputations with him beginning in his visitatiō at Parshor and so finished the same in the Cathedral Church at Worcester Where amongs many other he founde M. Iewell who was one of his apponents The said M. Hoper was so answered by M. Fekenham that there was good cause why he should be satisfied and M. Fekēham dismissed from his trouble As he had cause also to be satisfied by the answeres of M. Henrie Iolife Deane of Bristow and M. Robert Iohnson as may appeare by their answeres now extant in print But the finall end of all the foresaid disputations with M. Fekenhā was that by the foresaid Syr Phillipp Hobbey he was sent backe againe to the Tower and there remained prisoner vntill the firste yeare of Queene Marie And here nowe may you perceiue and see M. Horne how ye are ouertaken and with how many good witnesses in your vntruthe concerning M. Fekenhams dimissing out of the Tower A rablement of your vntruthes here I wil not nor time will serue to discusse as that Monasteries were surrendered with the Monks goodwil whiche for the moste parte might sing volens nolo that their vowes were foolishe and that they had many horrible errors Marie one thing you say that M. Fekenham I thinke will not denie that he set foorth this Supremacy in his open sermons in King Henries daies which was not vpon knowledge as you without all good knowledge doe gather for knoweledge can not matche with vntruth but vpon very ignorance and lacke of true knowledge and due consideratiō of the matter being not so wel knowē to the best learned of the Realme then as it is now to euery mā being but of mean learning For this good lo at the least heresy worketh in the church that it maketh the truth to be more certainly knowen ād more firmly and stedfastly afterward kept So as S. Austine saith the matter of the B. Trinitie was neuer wel discussed vntil Arriās barked against it The Sacramēt of penāce was neuer throughly hādled vntil the Nouatiās began to withstand it Neither the cause of Baptism was wel discussed vntill the rebaptising Donatists arose and troubled the Church And euē so this matter of the Popes Supremacy ād of the Princes was at the first euē to very learned mē a strāge matter but is now to meanly learned a well knowen and beaten matter Syr Thomas More whose incōparable vertue ād learning al the Christian world hath in high estimatiō and whose witte Erasmus iudged to haue ben such as England nor had neither shal haue the like ād who for this quarrel which we now haue in hād suffred death for the preseruatiō of the vnitie of Christes Church which was neuer nor shal be preserued but vnder this one head as good a man ād as great a clerk and as blessed a Martyr as he was albeit he euer wel thought of this Primacy and that it was at the least wise instituted by the corps of Christēdome for great vrgēt causes for auoiding of schismes yet that this primacy was immediatly institute of God which thing al Catholiks now specially such as haue trauailed in these late cōtrouerses do beleue he did not mani yeres beleue vntil as he writeth himself he read in the mater those things that the Kīgs highnes had writē in his most famous booke against the heresies of Martin Luther amōg other things he writeth thus Surely after that I had read his graces boke therin and so many other things as I haue sene in that point by the continuance of this seuē yeres sins ād more I haue foūd in effect the substāce of al the holy Doctors froe S. Ignatius Disciple of S. Iohn vnto our own daies both Latins ād Grekes so cōsonāt and agreīg in that point and the thing by such general Gouncels so confirmed also that in good faith I neuer neither read nor heard anye thinge of suche effecte on the other side that euer coulde lead mee to thinke that my conscience were well discharged but rather in right great peril if I should follow the other side and denie the primacie to be prouided by God It is the lesse meruail therfore if at the first for lacke of mature and depe consideration many good wel learned men otherwise being not resolued whether this Primacie were immediatly instituted by God and so thīking the lesse dāger to relēt to the Kings title especially so terrible a law enacted against the deniers of the same wer ād amōg them also Maister Fekenham caried away with the violence of this cōmon storm and tempest And at the first many of the cōuocation grāted to agnise the Kings supremacy but quatenus de iure diuino that is as far as thei might by Gods law Which is now knowen clearly to stand against it And although the Popes Primacie were not groūded directly vpon Gods worde but ordeined of the Churche yet coulde it not be abrogated by the priuate consente of any one or fewe Realmes no more then the Citie of Londō can iustlye abrogate an act of Parliament But whereas ye insult vpon M. Fekenham for that he was ones entangled and wrapped in this common error and would thereof enforce vpon him a knowledge of the said error and woulde haue him perseuere in the same and ones againe to fall quite ouer the eares into the dirtie dong of filthie schisme and heresie ye worke with him both vnskilfully and vngodlye And if good counsaile might finde any place in your harde stony hart I would pray to God to mollifie it and that ye would with M. Fekenham hartilie repēt and for this your great offence schisme and heresie as I doubt not he doth and hath done followe S. Peter who after he had denyed Christ Exiuit fleuit amarè Went out and wepte ful bitterlie For surely whereas ye imagine that ye haue in your cōference proued the matter to M. Fekenhā so that he had nothing to saye to the contrarye it is nothing but a lowde lewde lye vppon him and that easelye appeareth seeinge that after all this your long trauaile wherein yee haue to the moste vttered all your skill ye are so farre from full answering his scruples and staies that they seeme plainlye to be vnaunswerable and you your selfe quite ouerborne and ouerthrowen
Apostles Stapleton HERE is nothinge M. Horne that importeth youre surmised Supremacye The effecte of your processe is Princes haue authoritie to mainteine praise and further the vertues of the first table and to suppresse the contrary wherein onely coÌ„sisteth the true ReligioÌ„ and spiritual Seruice that is due froÌ„ maÌ„ to God And that he hath authority herein not only in the vertues or vices bidden or forbiddeÌ„ in the second table of Gods coÌ„maundements wherin are conteined the dueties one man oweth to an other This is grauÌ„ted M. Horn both of the Catholiks and of the soberer sort of Protestants for Carolostadius Pelargus Struthius with the whole rable of th' Anabaptists deny it that Princes haue authority both to further the obseruation and to punish the breach of Gods coÌ„maundements as wel in the first table as in the second that is as well in such actions as concerne our dutie to God him self as in the dutie of one man to an other But al this is as not onely the Catholike writers but MelaÌ„chthon him self and Caluin do expouÌ„d quod ad externam disciplinam attinet as much as apperteineth to external discipline and the Magistrate is the keper and defender of both tables saith Melanchthon but againe he addeth quod ad externos mores attinet as muche as belongeth to external maners behauiour and demeanour For in the first table are coÌ„teined many offences and breaches of the which the Prince can not iudge and much lesse are by him punishable As are all suche crimes whiche proprely belong to the Court of Conscience To wit misbelief in God mistrust in his mercy contempt of his commaundements presumption of our selues incredulitie and such like which al are offences against the first table that is against the loue we owe to God CoÌ„trarywise true belief confidence in God the feare of God and such like are the vertues of the first table And of these Melanchthon truely saith Haec sunt vera opera primae tabulae These are the true workes of the first table The punishing correcting or iudging of these appertaine nothing to the authority of the Prince or to any his lawes but only are iudged corrected and punished by the spiritual sworde of excommunication of binding of sinnes and embarring the vse of the holy Sacraments by the order and authoritie of the Priest only and spiritual Magistrate Which thing is euident not only by the confession doctrine and continuall practise of the Catholique Churche but also by the very writinges of such as haue departed out of the Churche and will seeme most to extolle the authoritie of Princes yea of your selfe M. Horne as we shall see hereafter Againe whereas the chiefe vertue of the first table is to beleue in God to knowe him and to haue the true faithe of him and in him in externall regimente as to punishe open blasphemy to make lawes against heretiques to honour and mainteine the true seruice of God Princes especially Christians ought to further aide and mainteine the same But to iudge of it and to determine whiche is the true faith in God how and after what maner he ought to be serued what doctrine ought to be published in that behalfe the Prince hath no authoritie or power at all Therefore MelanchthoÌ„ who in his CoÌ„mon places wil haue Princes to looke vnto the true doctrine to correct the Churches when Bishops faile of their duetie yea and to consider the doctrine it selfe yet afterward he so writeth of this matter that either he recanteth as better aduised or els writeth plaine contrary to him selfe For thus he saieth of the Ciuile Magistrates Non condant dogmata in Ecclesia nec instituant cultus vt fecit Nabuchodonozor Et recens in scripto cui titulus est Interim potestas politica extra metas egressa est Sicut Imperatori ConstaÌ„tio dixit Episcopus LeoÌ„tius 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 NoÌ„ sunt coÌ„fundeÌ„dae functiones c. Let theÌ„ make no doctrines in the Church neither appoint any worshipping of God as did Nabuchodonosor And euen of late in that writing which is entituled the Interim the Ciuile power hath passed her bounds and limites As ones Bishop Leontius said to Constantius the Emperour Thou being set to gouerne in one matter takest vpon thee an other matter The functions of both magistrates are not to be confounded In these woordes you see M. Horne Melanchthon taketh away all authoritie from Princes in iudging or determining of doctrine and wil not haue the functions of both Magistrates Spiritual and temporal to be confounded Yea M. Nowel himselfe with a great stomach biddeth vs shew where they deny that godly and learned Priestes might according to Gods woorde iudge of the sincerity of doctrine As though when the Prince and his successours are made supreme gouernours without any limitation it fal not often out that the bisshop be he neuer so lerned or godly shall not ones be admitted to iudge of true doctrine except the doctrine please the Prince As though there had not ben a statute made declaring and enacting the Quenes Ma. yea and her highnes successours without exception or limitation of godly and vngodly and yet I trowe no bisshops to be the Supreme Gouernour in all thinges and causes as well spiritual as temporal As though you M. Horne had not writen that in bothe the tables the Prince hath authority to erect and correct to farther and restrayne to allow and punishe the vertues and vices thereto appertayning As though the gouernour in al causes is not also a iudge in all causes Or as though it were not commonly so taken and vnderstanded of a thousand in Englande which haue taken that Othe to their gâ—eat damnation but if they repeÌ„t You therefore M. Horne which talke so confusely and generally of the Princes Authority in both tables doe yet say nothing nor proue nothing this general and absolute Authority in al thinges and causes as lustely without exception the Othe expresseth And therefore you bring in dede nothiÌ„g to proue your principal purpose to the which al your proufes should be directed Againe where you alleage S. Augustin that the worde Godlynes meÌ„tioned in S. Paule to Timothe shoulde meane the true chief or proper worship of God as though Princes hauing charg therof should also haue authority to appoint such worship when yet S. Paule speaketh there of no such or of any authority at al in Princes but onely that by their peasible gouernmeÌ„t we might with the more quiet atteÌ„d to Gods seruice you doe herein vntruly report S. Augustine or at the leste missetake him For the woorde godlines which S. Augustine will haue so to meane is that which the Greeks call 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Gods seruice or religioÌ„ as himself there expresseth but the word of the Apostle to Timothee is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 godlynes So aptly and truly you alleage your doctors But wil you know M. Horn why
kepeth a solemne festiuall daie of the holy Ghoste sodenly by the wicked Turks besieged and shortly after the city and the whole Greke empire came into the Turks hands and possession Wherein God seameth as before to the Iewes so afterwarde to the Grecians as yt were with pointing and notyfying yt with his finger to shewe and to notifie to all the worlde the cause of the finall destruction as well of the one as of the other people But what speke I of Grece we nede not ronne to so fare yeares or contries The case toucheth vs much nearer The realme of Boheame and of late yeares of France and Scotlande the noble contrey of Germany with some other that I neade not name be to to lyuely and pregnant examples of this your true but neadlesse and impertinente admonition For the whiche notwithstandinge seeinge ye deale so freelye and liberallye I thowght good also to returne you an other I suppose not neadlesse or impertinente for you and such other as doe prayse and commende so highly this Andronicus doinges And nowe might I here breake of from this and goe further forth sauing that I can not suffer you to bleare the readers eies as thowgh the Emperours Theodosius and Valentinianus sayings or doings shoulde serue any thinge for your pretensed primacy We saith Valentinian to the Emperour Theodosius owght to defende the faithe which we receiued of our auncetours withe all competente deuotion and in this our tyme preserue vnblemished the worthy reuerence dewe to the blessed Apostle Peter So that the most blessed bisshop of the cyty of Rome to whome antiquity hath geuen the principality of priesthod aboue all other may O most blessed father and honorable Emperour haue place and liberty to geue iudgement in such matters as concerneth faith and priests And for this cause the bisshop of Constātinople hath according to the solemne order of councells by his lybel appealed vnto hī And this is writē M. Horne to Theodosius him self by a commō letter of Valentinian and the Empresses Placidia and Eudoxia Which Placidia writeth also a particular letter to her said sonne Theodosius and altogether in the same sense Harken good M. Horne and geue good aduertisement I walke not and wander as ye doe here alleaging this Emperour in an obscure generality whereof can not be enforced any certayne particularity of the principal Question I goe to worke with you plainly trewlye and particularlye I shewe you by your own Emperour and by playn words the Popes supremacy and the practise withal of appeales frō Constantinople to Rome that it is the lesse to be marueled at yf Michael in the forsayde coūcel at Lions cōdescēded to the same And your Andronicus with his Grecians the lesse to be borne withal for breaking and reuoking the said Emperours good and lawful doings Neither is it to be thought that Theodosius thowght otherwise of this primacy But because ye hereafter wring and wrest him to serue your turne I will set him ouer to that as a more commodiouse place to debate his doings therein M. Horne The .26 Diuision Pag. 19. a. Hitherto I haue proued plainly by the holy Scriptures and by some suche Doctours as frō age to age haue vvitnessed th' order of ecclesiasticall gouernmēt in the Church of Christ yea by the confession testimony and example of some of the most godly Emperours thēselues that such .69 like gouernment in Church causes as the Queenes maiesty taketh vpō her doth of duty belōg vnto the ciuil Magistrates and Rulers and therfore they may yea they ought to claim and take vpon them the same Novv remayneth that I proue this same by the continual practise of the like gouernment in some one parte of Christendom and by the general counsayles vvherein as ye affirme the right order of Ecclesiastical gouernment in Christ his Church hath been most faithfully declared and shevved from tyme to tyme. Stapleton Hitherto you haue not brought any one thing to the substantial prouf of your purpose worth a good strawe neither scripture nor Doctour nor Emperour Among your fowre emperours by you named ye haue iugled in one that was a stark heretik but as subtily as ye thought ye had hādled the matter ye haue not so craftely cōueyed your galles but that ye are espied Yet for one thing are ye here to be cōmended that now ye would seame to frame as a certain fixed state of the matter to be debated vpō ād to the which ye would seme to direct your proufs that ye wil bring And therin you deale with vs better thē hitherto ye haue done seaming to seke by dark generalities as it were corners to luske and lurke in Neither yet here walke ye so plainly ād truely as ye woulde seme but in great darknes with a scōse of dymme light that the readers should not haue the clere vew and sight of the right way ye should walke in whom with this your dark sconse ye leade farre awrie For thus you frame vs the state of the Question M. Horne The 27. Diuision Pag. 19. b. The gouernment that the Queenes maiesty taketh most iustly vppon her in Ecclesiastical causes is the guiding caring prouiding ordering directing and ayding the Ecclesiastical state vvithin her dominions to the furtheraunce maintenaunce and setting foorth of true religion vnity and quietnes of Christes Church ouerseyng visitīg refourming restrayning amending ād correcting al maner persons vvith al maner errours superstitiōs Heresies Schismes abuses offences contempts and enormities in or about Christes Religiō vvhatsoeuer This same authority rule and gouernmēt vvas practised in the Catholik Church by the most Christiā Kings and Emperours approued cōfirmed and cōmended by the best counsailes both general and national The .20 Chapter Declaring the state of the Question betwene M. Horne and Fekenhā touching the Othe Stapleton HEre is a state framed of you M. Horne but farre square from the Question in hande For the Question is not nowe betwene M. Fekēham and you whether the Prince may visit refourme and correcte all maner of persons for al maner of heresies and schismes and offences in Christian Religion which perchaunce in some sense might somewhat be borne withal if ye meane by this visitation and reformation the outward execution of the Churche lawes and decrees confirmed by the ciuill magistrate roborated with his edictes and executed with his sworde For in such sorte many Emperours and Princes haue fortified and strenghthened the decrees of bisshops made in Councels both general and national as we shal in the processe see And this in Christian Princes is not denied but commended But the Question is here now whether the Prince or lay Magistrat may of him selfe and of his owne princely Authority without any higher Ecclesiasticall power in the Churche within or without the Realme visit refourme and correct and haue al maner of gouernmēt and Authority in al things and causes ecclesiastical or no. As whether the Prince may by
at Constantinople and to the Emperours speach the secoÌ„d time after his banishmeÌ„t Where the Emperour desirous to trie him asked Arrius if he agreed with the Nicene Councel vpon which request he offred to the Emperoure a supplication and a foorme of the Catholike confessioÌ„ pretending to sweare to that but deceauing the prince with a contrary faith in his bosome and swearing to the faith in his bosome By these means th'Emperour dimissed him And therevpoÌ„ the factioÌ„ of Eusebius weÌ„t forthwith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with their accustomed violeÌ„ce saith Theodoret to AlexaÌ„der the B. of CoÌ„stantinople and required him to receiue him into CoÌ„munion The Bishop vtterly refused to do it notwithstaÌ„ding the Courtiours request or Princes pleasure because saith AlexaÌ„der being by a whole CouÌ„cell coÌ„demned he caÌ„ not be restored The factioÌ„ of Eusebiê° thretned AlexaÌ„der that if he would not by faire meanes restore him they would force him therto by foule meanes saiyng As against your wil we haue made him come to the Emperours speach so to morow against your wil we wil make you to receiue him into your Church To this point therfore the mater was now brought that Eusebius with his faction conducted by force Arius to the Cathedrall Churche at Constantinople there by violeÌ„ce to Church him But lo as they were going with al their heretical band to the church to play this part God shewed his mighty haÌ„d euen as he did vpoÌ„ the Egyptians in the read sea specified in the old TestameÌ„t or vpon Iudas in the new For in the way Arius was driueÌ„ to seke a place to ease nature where sodainly he auoided with his excrementes his very bowels and entrails aÌ„d in that filthy place gaue ouer his foule filthy stinking soule A mete carpet for such a squier And this is loe the mother Churche whervnto Arius was restored and vnited For other restitution by the true Catholike Bishops whose office it was as ye haue heard to restore him had he none And nowe with this miserable and wretched ende of this Archeheretike Arius wil I also end the doiÌ„gs of CoÌ„stantine the great wherin I haue so farre forth proceeded as M. Horne hath ministred occasion As for the Councel of Tyrus whereof here againe meÌ„tion is reiterated I haue spoken both in this boke aÌ„d also against M. Iewel as is before noted And now may I boldly vnfold your coÌ„clusion M. Horne where you say that the Nicen bisshops agnised this kind of regimeÌ„t in the great CoÌ„stantine â–ª and say quite coÌ„trary they agnised no suche regimeÌ„t which also I haue proued against you eueÌ„ by your own examples of CoÌ„stantine and the Nicen Fathers especially of Athanasius present at the said Councell M. Horne The .39 Diuision pag. 25. b. Constantines sonnes claimed and toke vpoÌ„ them the same authority that their Fathers had done before them and as Zozomen .101 reporteth of them did not only vpholde and mainteine the ordinaunces made by their father Constantine in Church matters but did also make nevv of their ovvne as occasion serued and the necessitie of the time required Constantinus after the death of his father restored Athanasius vvhom his father had .102 deposed to his bishoprike againe vvriting honourable and louing letters to the Churche of Alexandria for his restitution Constantius deposed Liberius the Bisshoppe of Rome for that he vvoulde not consent to the condemnation of Athanasius in vvhose place Foelix vvas chosen vvhom also the Emperour deposed for the like cause and restored again Liberius vnto his bisshoprik vvho being moued vvith th' Emperors kindnes as som vvrite or rather being ouercome vvith ambition .103 becam an Arrian This Emperour deposed diuers bisshops appointing other in their places He called a Synod at Millayn as Socrates vvitnesseth saiyng The Emperour commaunded by his Edict that there shoulde be a Synod holden at Millayn There came to this Councell aboue .300 Bishoppes out of the VVest Countries After this he minded to call a generall Councell of all the East and VVest Bysshops to one place vvhich coulde not conueniently be brought to passe by reason of the greate distaunce of the places and therefore he commaunded the Councell to be kept in tvvo places at Ariminum in Italie and at Nicomedia in Bythinia The .5 Chapter What Ecclesiasticall gouernement the Sonnes of Constantine the Great practised Stapleton YF Constantines Sonnes claimed the same authoritie that their Father had in causes Ecclesiasticall then were they no supreame Iudges no more then their Father was who was none as I haue said and shewed Yet saith M. Horne They not only mainteined their Fathers ordinaunces in Church matters but also made new of their owne But al this is but a loud and a lewd lye Which to be short shal sone appeare in the wordes of Zozomene M. Hornes Author who in the boke aÌ„d chapter quoted by M. Horne writeth thus The Princes also he meaneth Constantines Sonnes concurred to to the encrease of these things he speaketh of encreasing the Christian faith shewing their good affection to the Churches no lesse then their Father and honouring the Clergy their seruaunts and their domesticals with singular promotions and immunites Both confirming their Fathers lawes and making also of their owne against such as went about to sacrifice to worship idols or by any other meanes fell to the Grekes or Heathens superstitions Lo M. Horne heare what your Author saith As before CoÌ„stantine promulged lawes against Idolatrie and honored the Church of Christ and the ministers thereof so did his Sonnes after him As for Church matters as Constantine the Father made no lawes or decrees therto apertaining no more did his SoÌ„nes It is but your impudent vntruth Now touching the first and eldest sonne of Constantine called also Constantine we haue here of him as many lies as lines First in that M. Horne saith that his Father deposed Athanasius who was deposed by the Bishops and not by Constantine for he banished him but depose him he neither did nor could The second that this Constantine restored him to his bishoprick againe wherein he belyeth and so maketh the third lye his Author Theodoret who speaketh of none other restitution but that he released him from exile and banishmente which ye wote is no Bishoply but a Princely function and office But now we may be of good comforte For hauing boren out this brunt I trust we shal shift wel inough for all the residue For now lo we haue an Emperour that as far as I can see tooke vppon him in dede in many things M. Hornes supremacy Which may be proued by Athanasius Hosiê° Hilarius aÌ„d LeoÌ„tius Bisshops of the very same time But praise be to God that the same men al notable lightes of the Catholike Church which declared that he vsed this authority do withal declare their great misliking thereof aÌ„d make him soâ— of theÌ„ a plain foreruÌ„ner of Antichrist as I haue before declared out
And to begyn with the first action of the said Councel and to followe M. Hornes steppes with a litle tracing ther sterteth vp at the first I will speake with the least a brace of lyes besyde other vaine and impertinent talke Of hys Iudges whereby he woulde haue the Reader to thinke that these noble men were Iudges in the decision and determination of matters ecclesiastical he commeth altogether to short as ye shal anon vnderstande And therefore this shall be the first lye The second lye is that he saieth The Emperour prescribed a forme after which they muste determine the matters in controuersie For in al the Actes of that Councell there appeareth no such fourme or prescription made It is vsual with M. Horne in euery Councel to report such a prescription But as he hath often saied it so hath he not once proued it or shewed it by any one Authority but his owne which is a singular authoritye to lye as lewedly allmost as M. Iewell Yet to bleare the Readers eye and to seame handsomly to furnish his matter by some president and example he layeth forth for his proufe that these Iudges gaue sentence to depose Dioscorus the Patriarche of Alexandria and others This is alltogether false For firste they were no competent and ordinary Iudges being mere laye men especially in causes ecclesiastical to depose a Bishoppe Secondlye puttyng the case they had bene lawefull and ordinarye Iudges yet was yt no finall and iudiciall sentence For a final sentēce must decide and determine the matter by an absolut cōdemnatiō or absolution which was not done here this pretensed sentence being as your selfe write cōditional So that this their iudgment semed good to the Emperour to whom they referred the whole matter And here by the waye falleth out an other vntruth for the Nobles them selues doe not cal this saying a Iudgemēt but say yt semeth vnto vs iust Which words by lawe importe no final iudgemēt Fourthly and laste this was no iudgemente neither was Dioscorus deposed here in this action for in the beginning of the next action the Iudges confesse that sentence was not yet geuen vppon Dioscorus but in the thirde action and that not by theis Iudges as ye cal them but by Pope Leo his deputies and the residew of the Bishoppes without any referring of the matter to th' Emperor as the Iudges doe here The rest ye talk of in this place is of no weight and yf it weyeth anie thing yt weieth against you as Marcians oration whych tendeth to this that in new questions and dissensions of religion we must haue a speciall regard to the doctrine teaching and writing of the former fathers and coūcels which rule and forme of Iudgemēt prescribed by him you quit left out as a rule in dede importing a plaine destructiō of your new gospel Now if the making of an oration by a lay man imploieth any authority voice or iuriseictiō in the Coūcell then were many lay men the ambassadours for their Princes that made orations there yea and found many faultes to in the Church and desired the reformation of them members and Iudges of the late Councel of Trent which is notoriously false and so is that also that ye write of the noble men at Chalcedo And whereas they founde faulte wyth the populare acclamations of the Bishoppes which of a great zele to the catholik faith cried out against Dioscorus and other that deposed the godly Bishop Flauianus and that they would not receiue Theodoretus nor heare such matters as he had to propose because he for the time helde against Cyrillus and other Catholikes and that these noble men endeuoured to set an order and quietnes among them doth plainly shew wherein these noble mens office did rest as nothing touching the definition of anye matter spiritual but to prouide that al things might be don with order indifferency and quietnes For if a man consider what disorder tumulte crueltie yea and murder too fell in the second Ephesin Councell whiche customably is rather called a Conuenticle and a cōspiracy for the maintenaunce whereof ye make Theodosius a very godly Emperour and how that Dioscorus and his cōfederats would not suffer the Catholique Bishops Notaries as the manner was to write the actes there done but thrusted them out and put in Notaries of his owne at his pleasure howe he came to the other notaries and brake their wrytinges and fingers to howe that he forced the bishops to subscribe to a blanke that is in cleane paper wherein nothyng was writen howe that Dioscorus would not suffer the epistle of Leo the Pope sent to the Councel to be read and finally howe that he slewe the blessed Bishop Flauianus he that I say cōsidereth and wel weigheth the premisses and that a great numbre of those schismatical bishops were also with Dioscorus at Chalcedo shal sone perceue what nede there was of these noble mens assistance that they might wel haue to doe there thoughe not in ruling and iudging any spiritual matter yet in the indifferent ruling and direction of the Catholike Bishopes external doings and to see that al things might procede with quietnesse and without parcialitie Which answere ones made will serue also for many other General Councels But what a wicked Cham are you M. Horne that reueale to the common people in your vulgare bookes the faults and disorders of your most holy and reuerent Fathers the Fathers of so famous and so learned a Councell Verely Constantine the Greate that noble Emperour would cast his Imperiall garment he said to hyde a Bisshops faulte if by chaunce he should see any And becommeth it your vocation bearing the roume of a Bisshop your self to tel the people of the Bisshops whot scholes of their want of modestie and of ouershoting them selues You a Bishop of Gods Church Nay your sprit sheweth it selfe more bucherly then Bishoply and as mete to carie a rake as a Rochet M. Horne The .49 Diuision pag. 32. a. In the next action the Iudges and Senate after rehersall made vvhat vvas done before dooe propounde vnto the Synode vvhat matters vvere novv to be consulted of and vvilleth them to make a pure exposition of the faith and that vvithout any sinister affection declaring that the Emperour and they did firmely kepe and beleue according to the faith receiued in the Nicen Councel vvherevnto the Bisshops also accorde and saith that noman maketh or may attempt to make any other exposition Certaine of the Synode desired to heare the Symbol of the Nicen Councel recited which the Senate and Iudges graunted vnto them Stapleton By this also it may easely be sene wherein the duety and office of these Ciuil Magistrats did stād videl to see the Bishops requests of reading this booke or that booke this euidence or that euidence put in execution And so it maketh rather against M. Horne then with him M. Horne The .50 Diuision Pag. 32. a. After
the Popes Legates would not therto agree no nor Leo him selfe though the whole CouÌ„cel besought him but coÌ„firmed al other things that the CouÌ„cel had determined vpon and caused Anatoliê° the patriarch of CoÌ„staÌ„tinople to surcease froÌ„ this his ambitious claime and to coÌ„fesse his faut Last of al in a letter of Paschasinus one of the Popes Legates in that CouÌ„cel touching the condeÌ„nation of Dioscorê° this pope Leo is expresly called Caput Vniuersalis Ecclesiae Head of the vniuersall Church Many other things myght be gathered for this purpose as wel out of the Actes of this Councel as otherwhere especially that S. Gregorie writeth that of this holy Councell his predecessours were called Vniuersall Bisshppes M. Horne The .55 Diuision Pag 33. b. This Synode being finished the Emperour banished Dioscorus into the Cytie of Gangren VVhich thyng doon The noâ—les of the Cytie saith Liberatâ—s asseÌ„bled together to choose one both for life and learning worthy of the Bisshopricke for this waâ— .156 coÌ„maunded by the Emperours Decrees At the length Pâ—oteriuâ— vâ—â—s â—ade Bisâ—hop against vvhom the seditious people raysed one â—imotheus Helluâ—us or Aelurus vvho in conclusion murthered Proterius The catholique Bissoppes vvhich mainteined the Chalcedon councel made humble supplication vnto Leo the Emperour both to reuenge the death of Proterius and also .157 to depose Timotheus Hellurus as one not Lavvfully instituted in the Bishoprike on the contrary parte other Bishops make supplication vâ—to hâ—m in the defence of Timotheus and against the Chalcedon councel VVhen Leo the Emperour had considered the matter of both their supplications for good and godly consyderations he vvrote his letters to the Bisshops of euery city declaring both these causes and vvilling them to send him .158 their aduise vvhat vvas best to be done from vvhom he receiued anâ—vvere that the Chalcedon Councel is to be mainteined euen vnto â—eath vvherevpon the Emperour vvriteth to Sâ—ila his Lieutenaunt of Alexandria that he should maintein the Chalceâ—on Councell Stila did as the Emperour commaunded he expelled Timotheus Hellurus and .159 placed an other in his roume named Timotheus Sâ—lefacialius or Albus vvho liued quietly all â—he raigne of Leo and Zeno the Emperours til Basilicus gat the Empire vvho restored Timotheus the Heretique But vvhen Zeno recouered the Empire this Timotheus poisoned him selfe in vvhose place the Heretiques chose one Peter Mogge Afâ—er that Zeno the Emperour knevv of the crafty dealing of the heretiques he vvrote to his Lieuâ—enaunt Anthemius that he should depriue Peter Mogge and restore Timotheus to the bisshopricke and further that he should punish those that vvere the authours to enstall Peter Mogge Anthemius receiuing the â—mperours mandate did depose Peter Mogge as one that vvas but a counterfayt made bissop contrary to the lavves of the Catholique Churche and restored Timotheus Salefacialius vvho being restored sent certeine of his Clergy to the Emperour to render him thankes The .15 Chapter of Leo and Zeno Emperours Stapleton THis collection standeth in the banishing of Dioscorus and in the election and deposing of bishoppes Proterius was chosen vniuersorum sententia by the verdit of all the Citizens of Alexandria as the maner of choosing then was both before and after The Emperours commaundement was not the only cause thereof but the coÌ„maundement of the Councell for execution whereof the Emperour gaue forth his letters also For concealing whereof in your first allegatioÌ„ out of Liberatus you leaue out the worde Et Also where Liberatus saieth For this was also commaunded by the Emperours edictes The worde Also you leaue out to make your Reader beleue that the onely Absolute coÌ„maundement of the Emperour was the cause that Proterius was ordered bishop in the place of Dioscorus Whereas themperours edict came forth partly for auoyding of tumultes which the hereticall adhereÌ„ts of Dioscorus were likely to raise And which they raised in dede straight after the death of Marcian themperour and remouyng Proterius made Timotheus to sitte in hys place partly for executing the Chalcedon Councels Decree which was that a newe bishop should strayght way be ordered at AlexaÌ„dria in the roume of Dioscorus whom they had deposed Nowe Timotheus was an open heretike standing against the CouÌ„cel of Chalcedo and a murtherer withall of hys lawefull bishop Proterius and therefore no greate accompt to be made of the Emperours doings towards hym he being no bishop at al in dede Nowe where the Emperour coÌ„maunded an other to be put in his place it had bene well done if ye had placed also as your author doth the whole words and doings of themperour which was that Stila his deputy shuld set in aÌ„ other But wheÌ„ M. Horne when all the Bissops had answered that the Councel of Chalcedo was to be maintayned euen to death And that the foresayed Timotheus was vnworthy to be called either Bisshop or Chaistian man And howe M. Horne Decreto populi With the consente of the people which kinde of choosing Bishops was then no newe thinge in the Churche but vsed bothe before and after As for the banisshing of Dioscorus being before deposed of the Councell I think your self wil confesse yt to be no spirituall matter M. Horne The .56 Diuision pag. 34. a. After this Timotheus Ioannes de Talaida vvas choosen vvhereof vvhen Acatius Bisshop of Constantinople hearde he being offended vvith Iohn for that he had not sent vnto him synodical letters to signifie of his election as the maner vvas he ioyned him selfe vvith the fautours of Peter Mogge and accused Iohn vnto the Emperour as one not sounde in Religion nor fit for the Byshoprike Peter Mogge espying this oportunity dissembleth an vnity and recoÌ„ciliation and by his friends vvynneth Acatius vvho breaketh the matter to theÌ„perour and persvvadeth him to depose IoaÌ„nes de Talaida and to restore Peter Mogge so that the same Peter vvold first receiue and professe the HenoticoÌ„ that is the confessioÌ„ of the vnity in faith vvhich the Prince had set foorth vvherof this is the effect Zeno the Emperor to al Bishops and people throughout AlexaÌ„dry and Aegipt Lybia and PeÌ„tapolis For somuch as we know that the right and true faith alone is the begiÌ„ning coÌ„tinuaÌ„ce streÌ„gth and inuiÌ„cible shyld of our Empire we labour night aÌ„d day in praier study and with Lawes to encrease the Catholik and Apostolike Church by that faith Al people next after God shal bowe doune their necks vnder our power Seing therfore that the pure faith doth on this wise preserue vs and the Romain coÌ„mon wealth many godly fathers haue huÌ„bly beseched vs to cause an vnitie to be had in the holy Church that the meÌ„bers displaced and separated through the malice of the enemie may be coupled and knit together And after this declaring his faith to agree vvich the Nicen councel and those that condeÌ„ned Nestorius and Eutiches he sayth we curse those that thinke the contâ—ary After vvhiche curse declaring al the
write with teares entreateth the Emperour that the Churches might be restored to the Arrians The Pope was then belike an Arrian him selfe Surely the simple Reader can gather none other thing by you especially the same being dasshed in the margent to Ye haue not done well to tell half the tale and to tell it so suspitiouslye The cause then of his earnest suite was that otherwise Theodorike threatened to shutte vppe all the Catholique Churches in Italie and vnder his dominion Yea your Author Martinus writeth that he menaced to kill all the Catholikes in Italy whome he calleth Christianos This was the cause of his ernest suite not for the fauour he bore to the ArriaÌ„s but for the fauour he bore to the Catholiques and their Churches Iustinus receiued those Ambassadours as you truly say honorably And as Sabellicus writeth the Emperour was not onelye crowned of Pope Iohn but at his first coÌ„ming most humbly and reuereÌ„tly fel at his feet before him and honoured him But Iustinus did not so honorably entertaine him at Constantinople but Theodorike at his returne did deale with him as homly casting hiÌ„ into prison at RaueÌ„na where what for hunger what for lothsome filthines of the prison shortly after he died a Martyr About which time or a litle after he slew the honorable Senatours Symachus and Boetius Whiche thing al your three Historiographers doe write Where ye wil vs to note that not onely the Pope shewed his obedieÌ„ce and subiectioÌ„ to the godly Emperor but also that the secular Princes ordeined lawes ecclesiastical c. Your double note wil proue but a double vntruthe For the Pope in this supplicatioÌ„ obeied not the godly Emperour Iustine but the Arrian King Theodorike Neither was it obedience of dutie but a submission of charitie partly to qualifie the furie of the Arrian tyrant partely to saue harmelesse the whole nuÌ„ber of Catholikes in Italy which by th' Emperours edict should coÌ„sequently haue ben destroyed Againe this decree of Iustine was no ecclesiasticall mater coÌ„cerning any alteration of religion any deposing of Bishoppes any order of Church discipline or such like but oÌ„ly a decree for banishiÌ„g of Arrian heretikes and of ouerthrowing their Synagogs which maner of decree being of denouÌ„ced heretiks belongeth properly to the ciuile Magistrate and is an external or teÌ„poral mater no spirituall or ecclesiasticall cause namely such as we ioyne issue with you King Phillip hath banished heretikes out of this land and hath coÌ„maunded their Synâ—gogues to be ouerthrowen But he is not therfore taken for Supreme gouernour in al causes or in any cause ecclesiastical Neither do or euer did his subiects swere to any suche Title M. Horne The .66 Diuision pag. 38. a. VVithin a vvhile after this â—hon vvas Agapetus Pope vvhome Theodatus the King sent on his Ambassage vnto the Emperour Iustinianus to make a suit or treaty in his behalfe VVhen the Emperour had enterteined this Ambassadour vvith much honour and graunted that he came for touching Theodatus he earnestly both vvith faire vvordes and soule assailed this Pope to bring him to become an Eutychian the vvhich vvhen he could not vvinne at his handes being delighted vvith his free speache and constancy he so liked him that he foorthvvith .183 deposed Anthemius bisshop of Constantinople bycause he vvas an Eutychian and placed Menna a Catholike man in his roume Agapetus died in his legacy in vvhose roume vvas Syluerius made Pope by the meanes or rather as Sabellicus saieth by the commaundemente of the Kynge Theodatus the which vntil this time was woÌ„t to be done by the authority of the Emperours saith Sabellicus for the reuenge whereof Iustinianus was kyndled to make warres against Theodatus Syluerius vvas shortly after quarrelled vvithal by the Empâ—resse through the meanes of Vigilius vvho sought to be in his roome and vvas by the Emperours 184 authority deposed The vvhich act although it vver altogether vniust yet it declareth the autority that the Prince had ouer the Pope vvho like a good Bisshop as he vvould not for any threates do contrary to his coÌ„science and office so like an 185 obedieÌ„t subiect he acknovvleged the Princes authority being sent for came being accused vvas ready vvith huÌ„blenes to haue excused and purged him self and vvhan he could not be admitted thervnto he suffred him selfe 186 obedieÌ„tly to be spoiled of the Bissoplike apparaile to be displaced out of his office and to be clothed in a Monasticall garement The same measure that Vigilius did giue vnto Syluerius he himselfe being Pope in his place receiued shortly after vvith an augmentation for he vvas in like sorte vvithin a vvhile 187 deposed by the Emperours authority bicause he vvould not kepe the promise vvhich he had made vnto the Emperesse and vvas in most cruell vvise dealt vvith all vvhich cruelty vvas the rather shevved to him by the meanes and procurement as Sabellicus noteth of Pelagius vvhom Vigilius had placed to be his Suffragan in his absence The .19 Chapter Of Iustinian the Emperour and diuerse Popes and Bisshoppes vnder him Stapleton ALL this standeth in two pointes First that an other Pope Agapetus by name was againe sent in Ambassage of Theodatus the King But this as Liberatê° writeth was a tyrannical force made bothe to the Pope and to the whole Senat of Rome These Arrian and barbarouse Gothian Kings are no fit examples of gouernmente due to godly Catholik Princes And their vtter destructioÌ„ folowed immediatly after vnder Belisarius Iustinians Captain Such blessed presidents M. Horne hath fouÌ„d out to build his imagined Supremacy vpon The next point is in the deposing of two Popes by the Emperour Iustinian wherin we nede by so much the lesse to enlarge our aunsweare for that M. Horne freely and franckly of him selfe confesseth that they were vniustly deposed Againe that you say the Pope suffered him self obediently to be spoiled c. If your tale wer true that were you know but an homly obedience but now he suffred not that spoile as you imagine obediently but was brought to that point by a very craft and traine as in Platina and Liberatê° it may be sene This therfore may passe for an other of M. Horns vntruths So hard it is for such ProtestaÌ„t Prelats to tel a true tale With the like truth you write that the Pope like an obedieÌ„t subiect acknowleged the Princes autority And why Because forsoth he suffred himself to be cloistred vp by force of Belisarius or rather his wife the Emperours Captain If such patience parforce proue a subiection then is the true man an obediente subiecte also to the theefe when he yeldeth him vppe his purse in the high waie to saue his lyfe But we say if there had bene iuste cause to depose them yet neither themperour nor the Councel could lawfully haue deposed them And because good Reader thou shalt haue a shorte and a ready proufe and that framed to thy hand
the Emperour to condemne Theodorus Mopsuestenus a famous aduersary of Origen the vvhich he brought to passe by ouermuch fraude abusing the Emperour to the great slaunder and offence of the Church Thus in all these Ecclesiasticall causes it appereth the Emperor had the .192 chief entermedling vvho although at the last vvas beguyled by the false bisshops yet it is vvorthy the noting by vvhom this offence in the Church came vvhich appeareth by that that follovveth I beleeue that this is manifest to al men saith Liberatus that this offence entred into the Church by Pelagius the DeacoÌ„ and Theodorus the Bisshop the which eueÌ„ Theodorus him selfe did openly publishe with clamours crying that he and Pelagius were woorthy to be brente quicke by whome this offence entred into the worlde Stapleton M. Horne nowe will bringe vs a prety conclusion and prove vs because bishopes be at dissention and abuse the Prince assisting nowe the one parte nowe the other that the prince is supreame head Whereof will rather very well followe this conclusion Experience sheweth that princes the more they intermedled in causes of religioÌ„ the more they troubled the Churche the more they were theÌ„ selues abused and also misused others Therefore priÌ„ces are no mete persons to be supreme heads in such causes Examples hereof are plenty Constantin the great persuaded by the Donatistes most importunat suyt waded so farre ouer the borders of his owne vocatioÌ„ that as S. Augustin writeth à sanctis antistibus veniam erat petiturus it came to the point he should aske pardon of the holy bishops The same Emperour by the suit of the Arrians medled so far with bishops matters that he banished the most innocent most godly and most lerned bishop Athanasius whereof in his deathebed he repented willing him by testament to be restored Theodosius the first persuaded with the smothe toung of Flauianus the vnlawful and periured bishop of Antioch did take his parte wrongefully against the west bisshops and the greatest parte of ChristeÌ„dom wwhereof we haue before spoken Theodosius the seconde defended the Ephesine conuenticle against Pope Leo seduced by Dioscorus and Eutyches or rather abused by one of his priuy chamber Chrysaphius an Eunuche and wynked at the mâ—â—dering of holy Flauianus whome the Chalcedon Counâ—â—ll calleth Martyr Zenon the Emperour deceyued by Acatius of ConstaÌ„tinople banished Iohn Talayda the Catholike patriarch of Alexandria who appealed from the Emperoure to Pope Simplicius And nowe in like maner this Emperour Iustinian while he was ouer busy in ecclesiastical matters as one that toke great delight so noteth Liberatus to geue iudgment in such matters being deceiued by Theodorus of the secte of Acephali condemned Theodorus Mopsuestenus and Ibas two most catholike bishops and highly praysed in the Chalcedon Councel wherof sprong vp in the Church a moste lamentable tragedye for the space of many yeares as all writers doe pitefully report This same Iustinian also banished the good bishop of Constantinople Eutychius for not suffering him to alter Religion But he restored him againe in his deathbed as Constantine dyd Athanasius He woulde haue banished also Anastasius an other Catholyke bishop of Antioche because he would not yeld to his heresy of Aphthartodocitae Such examples ought rather to teach Princes not to intermedle with matters aboue their vocation trulye as muche as the sowle passeth the body then to geue them anye presidentes of supreame gouernemente yea IN ALL CAVSES as Mayster Horne and hys fellowes as long as Princes fauour them woulde geue vnto them M. Horne The .69 Diuision pag. 39. a. This Pelagius as yet vvas but Suffragan or proctour for the Pope vvho aftervvard in the absence of Pope Vigilius his maister crepte into his See in the middest of the broiles that Totylas King of the Gothes made in Italye vvhen also he came to Rome In the vvhiche Historie is to be noted the Popes .193 subiection to Totylas vvhome humblie on his knees he acknovvleaged to be his Lorde appointed thereto of God and him selfe as all the reste to be his seruaunte Note also hovve the King sent him Embassadoure vvhat charge and that by Othe of his voyage of his message and of his returne the King straightlie gaue vnto him hovve buxomelie in all these things he obeyed Hovve last of all tovvard the Emperour being commaunded by him to tell his message he fell doune to his feet and vvith teares bothe to him and to his Nobles he ceased not to make moste lamentable and humble supplication till vvithout speed but not vvithout .194 reproche he had leaue to returne home But least you should take these things to sette foorthe that Princes had onely their iurisdiction ouer the Ecclesiasticall personnes and that in matters Temporall and not in causes Ecclesiasticall marke vvhat is vvritten by the Historians Platina amongest the Decrees of this Pope Pelagius telleth and the same vvitnesseth Sabellicuâ— that Narses the Emperours other deputie Ioyntelye with Pelagius did decree that none by ambition shoulde be admitted to any of the holye Orders Pelagius moreouer vvriteth vnto Narses desiring him of his ayed against all the Bisshoppes of Liguria Venetiae and Histria vvhich vvould not obey him putting their affâ—aunce in the authoritie of the first Councell of Constantinople In vvhiche Epistle amongest other things he vvriteth on this vvise Your honoure must remember what God wrought by you at that time when as Totyla the tyraunt possessing Histriam and Venetias the Frenche also wasting all thinges and you woulde not neuerthelesse suffer a Bisâ—hoppe of Myllaine to be made vntill he had sente woorde from thence to the moste milde Prince meaning the Emperour and had reciued answere againe from him by writing what shoulde be done and so bothe he that was ordeined Bisshoppe and he that was to be ordeined were brought to Rauenna at the appointment of your high authoritie Not long after Pelagius 2. bycause he vvas chosen Inâ—ussu Principis without the Emperours comaundement and could not send vnto him by reason the tovvne vvas beseged and the huge risyng of the vvaters stopped the passage as soone as he might being elected Pope he sent Gregory to craue the Emâ—erours pardone â–ª and to obtaine his good vvill For in those dayes sayth Platina the Clergie did nothing in the Popes election except the election had bene allovved by the Emperour Stapleton M. Horne telleth vs a tale after his olde wonte that is without head or taile to abuse his ignorant reader with a confuse heape of disordered and false wordes Pelagius was sente by the Romans to King Totilas to entreat of peace and that he would for a time ceasse from warre and geue them truce Saying that if in the meane whyle they had no succour they would yelde the citye of Rome to him Pelagius coulde wynne none other answere at his hands buâ— that they should beate downe the walles receiue his army and stand to his
honesty or dwelling so nighe Winchester schole so litle sight in the grammer Mennas had condemned Anthimus the Bishops and other cryed that forwith he should coÌ„deÌ„ne Seuerê° Petrus and Zoaras as he did a while after To whome Mennas answered that it was mete to coÌ„sult with themperour first which is very true for his great zeale to the faith aÌ„d for that he hadde the exequution of the sentence this is lyke your other knacke before that Dioscorus and other must be deposed And surely I woulde haue meruayled yf Mennas had takeÌ„ Iustinian for the supreame head who within fowre lynes after declareth the Pope to be the supreame head and that he did followe and obeye hiÌ„ in al things and coÌ„municated with them that did communicate with him and coÌ„demned those whome he did condemne Who also gaue Anthimus the heretik a tyme of repentance appointed by Pope Agapetus and proceded in SeÌ„tence against him according to the prescription of the Pope as Cyrillus proceded against Nestorius in the Ephesine Councel according to the limitation of Pope Celestinus M. Horne The .74 Diuision pag. 42. a. Such is the autority of Princes in matters Ecclesiastical that the Godly auncient Fathers did not only confesse that nothing moued in Church matters .207 ought to be done vvithout their authority but also did submitte theÌ„selues vvillingly vvith humble obedience to the directâ—on of the Godly Emperors by their lavves .208 in al matters or causes Ecclesiastical vvhich thei vvuld not haue done â–ª yf they hadde thought that Princes ought not to haue gouerned in Ecclesiastical causes The same zelous Emperour doth declare that the authority of the Princes lavves doth rightly dispose and kepe in good order both spiritual and temporal matters and driueth avvay all iniquity vvherefore he did not only gather togeather as it vvere into one heape tha lavves that he him selfe had made and other Emperours before him touching ciuil or temporal matters but also manye of those lavves and constitutions vvhich .209 his auncestours had made in Ecclesiastical causes Yea there vvas nothing perteyning to the Church gouernemente vvhiche he did not prouide for order and direct by his lavves and Constitutions vvherein may euidently appeare the aucthoritie of Princes not onely ouer the persons but also in the causes Ecclesiasticall He made a common and generall lavve to all the Patriarches touching the ordering of Bisshoppes and all other of the Clergie and Church Ministers prescribing the number of them to be suche as the reuenues of the Churches may vvell susteine affirming that the care ouer the Churches and other religious houses perteine to his ouersight And doth further inhibite that the ministers do passe foorth of one Churche to an other vvithout the licence of the Emperour or the Bisshoppe the vvhich ordinaunce he gaue also to those that vvere in Monasteries He .210 geaueth authoritie to the Patriarche or Bisshoppe to refuse and reiect although great suit by men of much authoritie be made He prescribeth in vvhat sorte and to vvhat ende the Churche goods shoulde be bestovved and threatneth the appointed paines to the bysshoppe and the other Mynisters if they trangresse this his Constitution He prescribeth in vvhat sorte the Bisshoppe shall dedicate a Monastery be giueth rules and fourmes of examination and triall of those that shal be admitted into a Monasterie before they be professed in vvhat sorte and orders they shal liue together He .211 prescribeth an order and rule vvherby to choose and ordeine the Abbat He requireth in a Monasticall personne diuinorum eloquiorum eruditionem conuersationis integritatem Learning in Gods woorde and integritie of life And last of all he chargeth the Archebisshoppes Bisshoppes and other churche Ministers vvith the publisshing and obseruing of this his constitution Yea his Temporal officers and Iudges also threatening to them both that if they doe not see this his Lawe executed and take the effecte they shal not escape condigne punishment He protesteth that Emperours ought not to be carefull for nothing so much as to haue the mynisterye faithfull tovvardes God and of honeste behauiour tovvardes the vvorlde vvhiche he saith vill easely be brought to passe if the holy rules vvhich the Apostles gaue and the holy Fathers kept and made plaine be obserued and put in vre Therefore saith he vve folovving in all things the sacred rules meaning of the Apostles do ordeine and decree c. and so maketh a constitution and lavve touching the qualities and conditions that one to be chosen and ordered a Bisshop ought to haue and prescribeth a fourme of triall and examination of the party before he be ordered adding that if any be ordered a Bisshop not qualified according to this constitution bothe he that ordereth and he that is ordered shall * lose their bisshoprikes He addeth furthermore that if he come to his Bisshoprike by giftes or revvardes or if he be absent from his Bisshoprike aboue a time limited vvithout the commaundement of the Emperour that he shall incurre the same penalties The like orders and rules he prescribeth in the same constitution for Deacons Diaconisses Subdeacons and Readers commaunding the Patriarches Archbisshops and bisshops to promulgate this constitution and to see it obserued vnder a paine He afâ—irmeth that this hath ben an auncient Lavve and doth by his authority renevv and confirme the same that no man haue priuate Chappels in their houses vvherein to celebrate the diuine mysteries vvherevnto he addeth this vvarning vnto Mennas the Archebisshop that if he knevv any suche to be and do not forbid and refourme that abuse but suffer this constitution of the Emperour to be neglected and broken he him selfe shal forfait to the Emperour fiftie poundes of gold Also that the ministers kepe continuall residence on their benefices othervvise the Bisshop to place others in their roomes and they neuer to be restored Stapleton We shall nowe haue a long rehearsall full three leaues of many Ecclesiasticall Lawes made by Iustinian the Emperour But who would thinke that M. Horne were eyther so folishe to make suche a sturre for that no man denyeth and the which nothing proueth his cause or to reherse such constitutions of Iustinian that partely ouerthroweth his Primacy partly displaceth him froÌ„ al bishoply and priestly office But what shal a man saye to them that be past all shame and haue no regard what they say or doe preach or write Or how is this world bewitched thus paciently to suffer such mens sermons and bookes yea and to geue them high credit to Tel me then and blushe not M. Horn whether ye be not one of them that for lacke of such qualities as IustiniaÌ„ according to the holie rules and Canons ye spake of requireth in a Bishop must lose your Bishoprik and those also that ordeined you Is not this one of the qualities that a Bisshoppe should haue no maner of wife when he is ordered Yea that his wife that he
impudently in going about to make your Readers belieue that Richaredus and other Princes after him were takē for Supreme heades of the Church till now in these later daies and most blasphemously in calling the Pope for this mater the childe of perdition As wel might you for this cause haue called Gregorie so too Who is surnamed as ye here write the Great But God wotteth and the more pitie not very great with you and your fellowes Of al bookes his writinges beare most ful and plaine testimonie for the Popes singular praeeminence whiche thing is in an other place by me largely proued that though the matter here semeth to require somewhat to be said I neede not say any thing but onely remit the Reader to that place where he shal finde that S. Gregorie practised this Supreme authoritie as wel in Spain as other where throughout the whole Christened world But what saith S. Gregorie Forsothe that the King Richaredus by his carefull and continuall preaching brought Arrians into the true faith S. Gregorie saith wel And yet you wil not I trow say The Prince himself preached in pulpit to the Arrians What then Verelye that which he did by his Clergie and to the which he was a godly promoter that he is saied to doe him selfe As to preache to conuert heretiques to decree this or that and briefely to gouerne in causes Ecclesiastical All which the Prince in his owne person or of his owne authority neuer dothe But by his furderance such things being done he is saied sometimes as here of Saint Gregorye to doe them him selfe We might now passe to the next mater sauing that as ye without any good occasion or bettering of your cause bring in that Richaredus woorked these thinges without Pope Gregorie So it may be feared ye haue a woorse meaning and that ye doe this altogeather craftely to blemishe and deface Sainte Gregorye with the ignoraunte Reader Els tell me to what purpose write ye that Saint Gregorye was asshamed of him selfe and his owne slacknesse Why bringe you in these woordes of Sainte Gregorye What shall I aunsweare at the dreadfull doome when youre excellencye shall lead with you flockes of faithfull ones which ye haue broughte into the true faithe by careful and continuall preachinges I muste then either to refourme your ignorance if ye knew it not before or to preuent your readers circumuention by your wilye handeling of the mater like to be perchaunce miscaried if ye knewe it before admonish you and him that this is spoken of S. Gregorye in deede but as proceeding from a maruelouse humilitye and lowlines In like maner as he wrote to Sainte Augustine oure Apostle in the commendation of his doings wherein yet vndoubtedly he was a great doer him selfe many wayes as by the Historie of Bede clerely appeareth Otherwise though Richaredus doings be most gloriouse and worthy of perpetuall renoune yet shal S. Gregory match him or passe him Neither shal he altogether be voide of his worthy cōmendation concerning his care for the refourming of Spaine and repressing of heresies there either by his authority or by his learned woorkes Verely Platina witnesseth that by the meanes of this Gregorie the Gothes returned to the vnite of the Catholike faithe Whiche appeareth not at that time any otherwhere then in Spaine Hearken farder what Nauclerus one that you ofte reherse in this your booke writeth of him In super Beatus Gregorius c. Beside this Saint Gregorie compelled the Ligurians the Venetians the Iberians which had confessed their schisme by their libell to receiue the Decrees of the Councell of Chalcedo and so broughte them to the vnitye of the Churche He reduced them from Idolatrye partely by punnisshmente partlye by preaching the Brucians the people of Sardinia and the husbandmenne of Campania By the good and mightye authoritie of his writings and by Ambassadours sente in conueniente time he sequestred from the bodye of the Churche the Donatiste Heretiques in Affrique the Maniches in Sicilie the Arrians in Spaine the Agnoites in Alexandria Onely the Heresie of the Neophites in Fraunce rising by Symoniacall bribes as it were by so manye rootes was spreade farre and wide againste the whiche he valiauntlye foughte labouring mightelye against it to the Queene Brunechildis and to the Frenche Kinges Theodoricus and Theodobertus till at the lengthe a Generall Councell beinge summoned he obteined to haue it vtterlye banned and accursed This saith Nauclerus of other Countries Now what nede I speake of our Realme the matter being so notoriouse that by his good meanes by his studye and carefulnes we were brought from most miserable idolatrie to the faith of Christe And therefore as our Venerable Countreyman Bede writeth we maye well and oughte to call him our Apostle Rectè nostrum appellare possumus debemus Apostolum Quia cum c. For saith he wheras he had the chiefe Bisshoprike in all the worlde and was the chiefe Ruler of the Churches that long before were conuerted to the faithe he procured oure Nation that before that time was the Idols slaue to be the Church of Christ. So that we may well vse that saiyng taken from the Apostle All were it that he were not an Apostle to other yet is he our Apostle We are the seal of his Apostlesship in our Lord God It appeareth that S. Gregorie had to doe in Ireland also by his Ecclesiastical authoritie Thus much haue I here spoken of S. Gregorie either necessarily or as I suppose not altogether without good cause Surely not without most deape harte griefe to consider how farre we are gon from the learning vertue and faith whiche we nowe almost one thousande yeares past receiued at this Blessed mans handes Which altogether with our newe Apostle M. Horne heere is nothing but Grosse ignorance And this blessed and true Apostle of our English Nation no better then the child of perdition That is as he meaneth in dede a plaine Antichriste I pray God ones open the eyes of our Coūtrie to see who is in dede the true Antichrist and who are his messengers and forerunners thereby carefully and Christianly to shun as well the one as the other Christ is the Truth it selfe as him selfe hath said Who then is more nere Antichriste then the teacher of Vntruthes And what a huge number hath M. Horne heaped vs vppe in that hitherto hath bene answered being litle more then the third part of his boke Yea in this very Diuision how doe they muster Some of them haue already ben touched But now to the rest more at large let vs ouer runne the Diuision shortly againe First besides his false translation putting for repairing the order of Ecclesiasticall discipline to make a new fourme thereof as though that King altered the old Religion of his realme and placed a newe neuer vsed before in Christes Churche as M. Horne and his fellowes haue done in our Countrie beside this pety
Donus first practised vvith Reparatus the Archebisshop of Rauenna to geue ouer vnto him the superiority and become his obedientiary and that as it may appeare by the sequele vvithout the consent of his Church After the death of Reparatus vvhich vvas vvithin a vvhyle Theodorus a familiar friend to Agatho the Pope and a stoute man vvhom .246 Agatho did honour vvith his Legacy vnto the syxth general Councel at Cōstātinople because his Clergy vvoulde not vvayt on him on Christmas daye solempnely .247 conducting him vnto the Churche as the maner had been did geue ouer the title ād made his sea subiect to the Pope for enuy ād despite of his Clergy saith Sabellicus vvherevvith the Rauennates vvere not content but being ouercome by the authority of the Emperour Constantin vvho much fauored Agatho they bare it as patiently as they might And Leo the seconde successour to Agatho made an ende hereof .248 causing the Emperour Iustinian to shevve great .249 cruelty vnto the vvhole Cyty of Rauenna and to Felix their Bisshop because they vvould haue .250 recouered their olde liberty And so this Pope Leo by the commandement and povver of the Emperour Iustinian brought Rauenna vnder his obeisance as the Pontifical reporteth These Popes through their feyned humility and obedience vnto the Emperours vvhich vvas but duty vvan both much fauour and ayde at the Emperors hādes to atchieue their purpose much desired The .3 Chapter of Vitalianus Donus and Leo the .2 Bishops of Rome and howe the Church of Rauenna was reconciled to the See Apostolike Stapleton WHy Maister Horne Put case the Pope signifieth his election to the Emperour Putte case the Popes were sometyme stowte and braue And sometyme againe couered they re ambitiouse meaninge with a patched cloke of humilitye and lowelines what yf the Churche of Rauenna after long rebellion became an obediētiarie to the apostolike see of Rome This is the effect and contents almost of one whole leafe What then I say Knitte vp I pray you your conclusiō Ergo a Prince of a Realme is supreame head in al causes ecclesiasticall and tēporal Wel and clerckly knitte vp by my sheathe But Lorde what a sorte of falshods and follies are knitte vp together in this your wise collection As concerning the stowtnes and cloked humility of the Popes your authours the Pontifical and Sabellicus write no such thinge but commend Vitalian Donus Agatho Leo for very good Popes yea and for this their doing concerning the Church of Rauenna Other writers commende these Popes also for good and vertuouse men But I perceiue they are no meane or common persons that must serue for witnesses in your honorable consistorie your exceptions are so precise and peremptorye Yet I beseache you sir in case ye will reiecte all other lette the Emperour Constantin himself serue the turne for this Vitalian Who at what tyme the bisshops of the easte being Monothelites woulde not suffer Vitalians name to be rehersed according to the custome in the Churche at Constantinople did withstande them And why thinke you M. Horne for any fayned holynes No no but propter collatam nobis charitatem ab eodem Vitaliano dum superesset in motione tyrannorum nostrorum For his charity employed vppon vs saieth the Emperour whil he liued in the remouing and thrusting out of those that played the tyrants against vs. Why doe ye not bring forth your authours to proue them dissemblers and Hypocrites but you shal proue this when you proue your other saying that there had ben an old ād a cōtinual dissensiō betwen these .ij. Churches ād that the Rauēnates were not subiect to the see of Rome This is wel to be proued that they ought to haue bene subiect to the see of Rome not onely by a common and an vniuersal subiection as to the see of all Churches But as to they re patriarchall see withall It is also aswell to be proued that in S. Gregories tyme who died but .72 yeares before Donus was made pope the Archebishops of Rauēna acknowledged the superioritie of the Church of Rome as appereth by sondrye epistles of S. Gregorie and receyuid theire Palle from thense a most certayne token of subiection matters also being remoued from thense to the popes consistory yea the bishop of Rauēna cōfessing that Rome was the holy See that sente to the vniuersall Churche her lawes and prayeth S. Gregorie not onely to preserue to the Church of Rauenna which peculiarly was vnder Rome her olde priuileges but also to bestowe greater priuileges vppon her Wherein appeareth your great vntruth and foly withal in that you saie there had bene an olde and continuall dissention betwixt the Archebishop of Rome and the Archebishop of Rauenna for the superioritie Now you see the dissension was not continual nor very olde it being so late subiect to the See of Rome in the tyme of S. Gregory Herein appeareth also an other of your vntruths where you alleadge out of the pontifical that Pope Leo brought Rauenna vnder his obeisaunce For the pontificall saieth Restituta est Ecclesia Rauennas sub ordinatione Sedis Apostolicae The Church of Rauenna was restored or brought home againe vnder the ordering of the See Apostolike In which wordes if you had truly reported them woulde easely haue appeared that the rebelliouse childe was then brought home again to obediēce not that then first it was brought vnder subiection as you vntruly and ignorantly surmise You say also as ignorantly or as vntruly that Theodorus the Archebishope of Rauenna who submitted his Church to Pope Agatho was a familiar frēd to Agatho and was of him honoured with his legacie to the sixt generall Councell of Constantinople intending thereby to make your reader thinke he did it of frendship or flattery and not of duety But your conceytes haue deceyued you For the legat of pope Agatho in that Councel so familiar a frend of his and so much by him honoured was one Theodorus presbyter Rauennas a priest of Rauenna as both in the life of Agatho and in the very Councel it self euidently appeareth Neither could that priest be afterward the same bishope that so submitted him self for that submission was before the Councell as in the life of Agatho it appeareth So lernedly and truely M. Horne in his talke procedeth With like truthe M. Horn telleth that Theodorus made his see of Rauenna subiect to Rome bicause his clergy did not so solemnely conducte him to Church vpon Christmas day as the maner had been Would not a man here suppose that this was a very solemne prelat that forlacke of his solemnyty would forsake his whole clergy But it is not possible for these lying superintendentes to tel their tales truly The story is this Theodorus the Archebisshop of Rauenna saieth Nauclerus minding vpon Christmas daye before the sonne risyng to say Masse in S. Apollinaris Church was forsaken of al his clergy And vntil it was
towarde noone they came not at him at what tyme by the meanes of the Exarchus they brought him to Churche The cause of this enmyty that the Clergy bore to him was as Nauclerus writeth for that he was a great almes man and liberal of the Churche goods and also very busy to kepe his Clergy in good order For this cause they hated him and in so solemne a daye vtterly forsoke him Which is more I trowe M. Horne then not so solemnely to conducte him as the maner was To lacke the ordinary solemnity and to be cleane destitute are two things And there is a difference you knowe betwene staring and starke blinde I thincke your selfe M. Horne as holy and as mortified as you be woulde be very lothe to shewe your self in S. Swithens Quyer at Winchester vpon a Christmas day al alone without any one of your Ministers as seely as they are Again where you say that Leo the secoÌ„d made an end hereof causing theÌ„perour Iustinian to shew great cruelty c. This is a very grosse lie For Leo the second was Pope only in Constantins time father to this Iustinian 2. And the cruelty that IustiniaÌ„ shewed to the whole City of RaueÌ„na was after the death of this Leo. 2. at the lest tweÌ„ty yers vnder CoÌ„staÌ„tine the Pope at the later end of IustiniaÌ„s reigne being restored then from banishment but yet continuinge in al his former cruelties And as Nauclerus writeth he changed neuer a whit his former life only excepted that after his banishment he euer shewed Reuerence to the See Apostolike otherwise then before his banishmeÌ„t he was wont to do And therefore hearing that Felix the bishop of Rauenna disobeied the Pope he commaunded his Lieutenant in Sicilie to punish them which he did in dede very cruelly and barbarously But that he did of his own accorde not by the causing as you ignorantly affirme of Leo the .2 Who was dead at the lest .20 yers before nor by the causing of CoÌ„stantine the Pope then for ought that appeareth in the Stories And therefore where you conclude that Pope Leo by the commaundement and power of Iustinian brought Rauenna vnder his obeissance as the Pontifical reporteth you belie the Pontifical and the whole storye of that tyme to to ignorantly The Pontificall in dede saieth Percurrente diuale iussione c. By the commaundement of the Emperour sent abrode the Church of Rauenna was restored c. But Iustinian it nameth not It meaneth Constantine the Emperour who straight after the .6 Councel ended promulged that edicte Leo the .2 being then Pope Suche a longe and tedious mater it is to open M. Hornes vntruthes M. Horne The .83 Diuision pag. 50. a. But Benedictus the secoÌ„d vvho succeded next to Leo the second vveÌ„t in this point beyonde al his predecessours for Constantin being moued vvith his .251 humanity piety and fauourablenes tovvards al meÌ„ vvhen he sent to theÌ„perour for his confirmation theÌ„perour sent saith Platina a decree that from henceforth loke whome the Clergy the people and the Romain army should chose to be Pope al men without delay should beleue him to be Christes true vicar abiding for no confirmation by themperour or his Lieutenant as it had been wonte to be doen. c. For that was wont to be allowed in the Popes creation that was confirmed by the Prince him self or his vicegerent in Italy Here first of al it appereth if this story be true hovve this interest of the Prince in this Ecclesiastical matter thus continuing .252 long tyme although many vvayes assailed and many attemptes made by the Popes to shake it of vvas at the length through their flattery vvhich their Parasites cal humility geueÌ„ vnto them of theÌ„perours to vvhom it apperteined But vvhether this story be true or not or if it vvere geuen hovv it vvas geuen or hovv long the giftes toke place or hovv it vvas taken avvay and retourned to the former right may vvell be called into question for there is good .253 tokens to shevv that it vvas not geuen in this sort For these tvvo Popes vvho sat in the Papal seat .254 but .10 moneths a peece or there about vvere in .255 no such fauour vvith TheÌ„perour as vvas their predecessour Agatho vvho made great suit vnto theÌ„perour for such like things and obteined his suit but vvith a speciall Prouiso for the reseruatioÌ„ of this authority stil to remain vnto theÌ„perors as vvitnesseth the Pontificall and Gratian. He receiued from the Emperour letters say they accordinge to his petition wherebye the somme of moeny was releassed that was wont to bee geuen to the Emperour for the Popes Consecration but so that yf there happen after his deathe anye election the Bisshoppe electe be not consecrated before the election be signified to the Emperour by the general decree he meaneth the Synodicall letters accordinge to the auncient custome that the orderinge of the Pope maye goe forwarde by the Emperours knowledge or consent and commaundement The Glossar vppon Gratian noteth vppon these vvordes VVhich summe was wont to be geuen For euery Bisshop was wonte to geue something to themperour at his election But did not themperour coÌ„mit Symony in releasing this right vnder this coÌ„dition that his coÌ„sent should be required in the election answeare no because both these belonged to hiÌ„ of right before wherefore he might nowe remitte the one But as I said let it be true that Constantin gaue ouer this iurisdictioÌ„ but Volateranus addeth to this suspected donatioÌ„ this clause found true by experience which donatioÌ„ saith he was not loÌ„g after obserued And in dede it vvas kept so smal a vvhile .256 that vvithin one yere after or litle more vvheÌ„ the electors after loÌ„g altercation had agreed on Conon Theodorê° theÌ„perors LieutenaÌ„t as saith Sabellicus gaue his assent aÌ„d Platina shevveth the same although not so plainly So that by this also it appeareth that if stil it appertained to theÌ„perours Lieutenant to geue his asseÌ„t to the Popes electioÌ„ that than this gift is .257 either fained of the Papistes and that the rather vnder the name of Constantinus to bleare therevvith the ignorauntes eies as though it vvere the graunt of Constantine the great as they doe about Images vvith .258 the name of the Nicene CouÌ„cel or by like the gift vvas not so autheÌ„tically ratified as it vvas vnaduisedly promised but hovv so euer it vvas it helde not longe the Pope himselfe solempnely vvith the consent and decree of a vvhole Councell resigning al the foresaid graunt vnto the Emperours for euermore The .4 Chapter of Benedictus the .2 Pope and Constantine the .5 Emperour Stapleton I Can not tel whether this matter is by M. Horne more vntrulye or more vnwiselye handled The Emperour Constantin moued with the great vertue of Benedictus the .2 gaue ouer to him saith Platina his accustomable right in the confirmation of the Popes election Nay saith M. Horne
morowe As in dede very properlye and truly George the Noble duke of Saxony sayed of the Lutheranes at Wittenberge when yet your Religion was scante out of her swadling clowtes What the faythe of my neighbours of wittenberge is now this yere I knowe But what it wil be the next yere I knowe not Yet you desire M. Feckenham to note here an other thing besides the Authoryty of this Noble Prince Charles the great for so you call him which you say was none other but the selfe same that other Princes from Cōstātin the great had and vsed which in deede is very true for they had none ne vsed none as hath bene proued and yet I maruayle where is then become the priuilege of S. Peters keyes sent to Charles Martell this mans grandefather if he had as you say none other but the selfe same Authoryte that other Princes from Constantin had If it was loste so soone then how is it true that you said before the heyres and successours of Charles Martell kepte these keyes form rusting If it was not lost how had he no more thē other which had S. Peters keyes more then other had But now to your note You will M. Feckenham to note that the holy Councel of Moguntia I am gladde you call it holy for thē you wil not I trowe misselyke with the diuision of the States there that I tolde you of euen now neyther with the Rule of S. Benets Order in that holy Coūcel straightly exacted doth acknowleadge and cōfesse in plaine speache him that is Charles the great to be the Ruler of the Churche in these ecclesiasticall causes Now shewe these laste wordes in these ecclesiastical causes in any parcel or place of the whol Councell in playne speache as you say and then M. Feckēham I dare say wil thanke you for your Note and for my parte I wil say you are a true man of your worde Which hitherto I assure you I haue litle cause to say or to thinke Your lying is almost comparable to M. Iewels Mary you are not in dede as yet so farre in the lashe as he is But if you come ones to Replying as he hathe done you wil be a Pinner I doubte not as well as he and telle your vntruthes by the thousandes For assure your selfe M. Horne as vera veris conueniunt so an vntrue and false doctrine can neuer possiblye be maintayned without horrible lying and mayne numbers of vntruthes M. Horne The .99 Diuision pag. 60. a. Pope Leo .3 as the French Chronicles and Nauclerus vvitnesseth sent foorthvvith after he vvas made Pope Peters keyes the Banner of the City and many other gifts vnto Charles requiring him that he vvold cause the people of Rome to become subiecte vnto the Pope and that by Othe Charles minding to gratify and pleasure Pope Leo there .314 vvas a cause vvherfore sente an Abbot on this busines and assured the people of Rome to the Pope by othe This Leo his streight .315 dealinges vvith the Romayns vvas so hatefull vnto them vvas brought shortly into much daungier of his life but farre more of his honesty Certaine of Rome came to Charles to accuse this Pope Charles putteth of the examination of the matter till an other time promisinge that he vvoulde vvithin a vvhile come to Rome him selfe vvhiche he did after he had finished his vvarres He vvas honorably receiued of the Pope The eight day after his cominge into Rome he commaunded al the people and the Cleargy to be called togeather into S. Peters churche appointing to here and examine the Pope touchynge that he vvas accused of in the opē assembly VVhē the Cleargy and the people vvere assembled the Kinge examineth them of the Popes life and conuersation and the vvhole company .316 beinge vvilled to say their mindes ansvveare that the manner hathe beene that the Popes shoulde be iudged of no man but of them selues Charles being mooued vvith so .317 sore greeuous an ansvveare gaue ouer further examination Leo the Pope saieth Platina vvho did earnestly desire that kinde of iudgement to geue sentence be 318. meaneth in his ovvne cause vvente vp into the pulpitte and holdinge the Gospels in his handes affirmed by his Othe that he vvas guiltles of all those matters vvherevvith he vvas chardged VVhereunto Sabellicus addeth the Popes owne testimonie of him selfe was so waighty as if it had beene geuen on him by other so muche auaileth a mans owne good reporte made of him selfe in due season .319 for vvante of good neighbours This matter if it vvere as the Popes flatterers vvrite thus subtily compassed although Martinus saith flatly that he vvas driuen to purge him selfe of certaine crimes laide to his chardge yet not vvithstanding the kinge toke .320 vpon him both to examine the matter and to determine therein and as appeareth tooke their ansvvere no lesse .321 insufficient than greuous although he vvinked at it bicause he looked .322 for a greater pleasure to be shevved him againe in consecratinge him Emperour promised longe before vvhiche this Pope perfourmed and solemply vvith great acclamations of the people crovvned him Emperour of Rome For saithe Platina The Pope did this to shewe some thāke fulnes againe to him who had well deserued of the Churche Stapleton This processe stādeth in the accusation of Pope Leo the .3 that certayne Romans made againste hym to Charles bearing with yt suche a wonderfull strength for the establishing of the Popes Supremacy that M. Horn may seme to play al by collusiō and to betray hys owne cause For now hath he by hys owne story auaunced the Pope so as he did also before in alleaging the Roman Councell in the tyme of Pope Sīmachus that he may be iudged of no mā For all the clergie and people of Rome make answere to Charles hym self that no mā cā iudge the Pope This writeth M. Horne owte of Platina and Sabellicus ād other writers be of the same lykenes ād agreablenes in writing with thē Howe then M. Horne Where is now your primacy become I trust now at the length ye wil discharge M. Fekēham frō this othe What say yow to your owne volūtarie allegation that no man forced yow vnto but the mightie truth to the bewraying of your false cause and your greate folly Yet leaste his sayde folly and preuarication shoulde be to open he will saye somwhat to yt because he maye seame to worke thowghe not as miraculously yet as wōderfully as euer did thys Leo who his tong being cut of by the roote as some mē write could speake neuerthelesse ād though his fowle lying mouthe against the Popes primacy be stopped by his own true declaratiō yet wil he speake not to any hys owne honour as Leo did but to hys vtter cōfusion ād shame Forsoth sayeth M. Horne Charles toke thys answere no lesse insufficient then greauous Wel sayde and in tyme M. Horne sauinge
blindnes aÌ„d superstitioÌ„ aÌ„d that heretiks only do se or the vnlerned oÌ„ly haue the pure worship of God But so it is That tyme coÌ„deÌ„neth this tyme. That ReligioÌ„ coÌ„deÌ„neth yours And therefore you must nedes either cal theÌ„ blind or coÌ„fesse your self bliÌ„d which you caÌ„ not possibly do because you are bliÌ„d in dede And why Forsoth because euer wheÌ„ you looke vp toward the former ages you put vpoÌ„ your eies a paire of spotted spectacles so that al that you se through those spectacles semeth also spotted fowle aÌ„d euil fauored vnto you And these spectacles are The coÌ„tempt of the Church traditioÌ„s A pride of your own knowledge in Gods word A lothsomnes of austere aÌ„d hard life to beare your own crosse with Christ. A preiudicat opinioÌ„ of preferriÌ„g Caluin MelaÌ„chtoÌ„ aÌ„d Luther before al the Catholik aÌ„d lerned fathers for so you cal theÌ„ of that age With such like If you wuld ones put of these foule spotted spectacles M. Horn theÌ„ wuld you neuer cal the time of Catholik aÌ„d lerned fathers a time of blindnes aÌ„d superstitioÌ„ but then would you se clerly your own blindnes and superstition Which with al my hart I pray God you may ones doe ere your dye M. Horne The .102 Diuision pag. 63. a. Although herein Lodouicê° Charles his son vvere somvvhat inferior to his father Yet notvvithstaÌ„diÌ„g he .327 reserued these Ecclesiastical causes to hiÌ„self aÌ„d vvith no lesse care be ordred the same although in some thiÌ„gs being a very mild PriÌ„ce he vviÌ„ked aÌ„d bare ouer much vvith the .328 ambitioÌ„ of the Popes Shortly after vvhaÌ„ as the forsaid Leo vvas departed vvas StepheÌ„ next elected Pope aÌ„d vvithout the coÌ„firmatioÌ„ of theÌ„perour tooke the Papacy vpoÌ„ hiÌ„ Al the histories agree that he came shortly after into FrauÌ„ce to theÌ„peror but vvherfore most of theÌ„ leaue vncertain Platina thinketh to auoid the hursey burley in the City that vvas after the death of Leo. Sabellicus thiÌ„keth theÌ„perors coronatioÌ„ to be the cause Nauclerus saith he weÌ„t in his own person vnto theÌ„peror Lodouik .329 about or for the Church matters vvhich 330 proueth that theÌ„perour had chief authority in ordering the Church busines But our English Chronicles as some vvriters affirme do plainly declare that his coÌ„ming into FrauÌ„ce vvas to make an excuse of his vnlaufull consecration against the decrees made to Charles by his predecessours AdriaÌ„ and Leo fearing therefore the sequele of the matter he first sent his Legats before hiÌ„ to be a preparatiue to his purgatioÌ„ and aftervvards came hiÌ„self to craue his pardoÌ„ And the rather to please theÌ„peror brought a most beautiful crovvn of gold for hiÌ„ and another for the Empresse 331 vvherof folovved as Naucle saith OiÌ„a quae petiit à pio Imperatore obtinuit he obteined whatsoeuer he asked of the godly emperor Novv vvheÌ„ StepheÌ„ had dispatched al his matters he retourned home and shortly after an other ecclesiastical cause happened for vvithin a vvhile the bishop of Reatina died and there vvas an other chosen And wheÌ„ the sea of Reatina saith Nauclerê° was void the Pope would not coÌ„secrat the elect Bishop onles he had first liceÌ„ce therto of themperor The circuÌ„stances of this story make the matter more plaine The erle Guido had vvriteÌ„ vnto Pope StepheÌ„ to coÌ„secrat that bishop vvhoÌ„ the Clergy and the people had elect but the Pope durst not enterprice the matter till he vvere certified of theÌ„perors pleasure and therupoÌ„ vvriteth agaiÌ„ vnto Th erle the tenor vvhereof folovveth after Gratianus report I haue red your letters wheriÌ„ you require me to coÌ„secrat the newly elect Bisshop of Reatin chosen by the coÌ„sent of the Clergy aÌ„d people least the Church should be long destitute of a propre pastour I am sory for the death of the other but I haue deferred the consecratioÌ„ of this for that he brought not with him themperors licence vt mos est as the maner is I haue not satisfied your mind herein leste that the Emperour should be displeased at my doing Therefore I require you for otherwise I ought not to medle to purchase the Emperours liceÌ„ce directed vnto me by his letters vt prisca consuetudo dictat as the auncient custome doth wil and then I will accomplishe your desier I praie you take not this my doing in euil parte VVherof it is manifeste inough saith Nauclerus that of the Emperours at that time the Bishops had their inuestitures although Anto doth glosse otherwise saying that perhaps this electe Bisshoppe was belonging to the Court who ought not to be ordered Not only the textes of many decrees in this distinction doth confirme this to be true but also Gratian him self and the glossars do in manie places affirme that this was the auncient custome and coÌ„stitution in the Churche that the electionâ— of the Bishoppes of Rome and of other Bishops also should be presented to the Emperours and Princes before they might be consecrated The .11 Chapter â–ª Of Lewys the first of SteueÌ„ .1 Paschalis .1 Eugenius .1 and Gregory the .4 Popes of Rome Stapleton LVdouicus sonne to Charles the great confirmed the popes election and had the inuestitures of bishops Be yt so M. Horn if ye wil what then Haue you forgotten that al that Authoryty was geueÌ„ to his father Charles the great by Adrian the pope and that he helde that onely of the Popes gifte Agayne many hundred yeares together ere this tyme Fraunce Italie Spayne England and many other contreis were vnder thempiere of Rome Would ye therfore inferre your argument froÌ„ that tyme to our tyme and make those countries nowe subiect to the Empire bicause they were then Yf ye doe litle thank shal ye haue for your labour And truely the argument holdeth aswel in the one as in the other And when al is done your cause of supremacie standeth as yt did before Yet is the fyne and clerkly handlyng of the matter by M. Horne to be withall considered who like a wanton spanell running from hys game at riot hunteth to fynde the cause why Pope Stephen whome the stories call an Angelicall and a blessed man came to this Emperour into FrauÌ„ce He telleth three causes out of three certaine and knoweÌ„ Authours aÌ„d then telleth vs that Nauclerus sayeth he came for Churche matters and so ful haÌ„dsomly concludeth thereby that the Emperour had the chiefe Authoritie therein which is as good an argument as if a man would proue the woman to whome Kyng Saule came and consulted with for certaine his affaires to haue bene aboue the King Your Authour Nauclerus doth specifie what these causes were that is to intreate themperour for his enemies and for the Romans that had done suche iniurie to Pope Leo of whom ye haue spoken and to pardon other that were in diuerse prisons in FrauÌ„ce for the great owtragiouse offences done against the Churche The good Emperour satisfied hys desire aÌ„d so he returned to
furthered with his helpe otherwise itching forth a litle and a litle faine to finde somewhat and it wil not be For all that furthering that you so closely couer was nothing els but that to his great charges he furnished the Councel with a goodly store of bookes and greate plentye of the Fathers writings Out of which they collected a fourme of institution c. Not the Emperour A non after you talke of Monasteries for men and wemen but you leaue out Secundùm regulam S. Benedicti According to the Rule of S. Benet Your vnruly Religion coulde not beare so much as the RemeÌ„braunce of that holy Rule And al that you tell of the Emperors words to the Bishops in the CouÌ„cel of TioinuÌ„ the CouÌ„cel calleth it only CoÌ„monitoriuÌ„ an aduertisemeÌ„t or admonitioÌ„ No charge or CoÌ„missioÌ„ You note to the Reader certeyne enormyties recited in this GouÌ„cel But wote you what those enormytes were Forsoth these That the lay Nobilite quia ad electionis consortiuÌ„ admittuntur Archipraesbyteris suis dominari praesumunt quos tanquaÌ„ patres venerari debueruÌ„t velut subditos coÌ„teÌ„nunt Bicause they are admitted to haue a part in the ElectioÌ„ they presume to ouer rule their chief priestes And whom they oughte to reuerence as Fathers they contemne as subiects These were the enormyties there recyted M. Horne And do not you defende this very enormytie euen in this very place aÌ„d by this very Councel When will you leaue to bringe Authoryties against your selfe As touching the matter of Incest the Synod requireth of the Emperour that to bringe such offenders to open penaunce Comitum eius auxilio fulciantur they may be vpholded with the helpe of his Offycers Lo they require the Emperours helpe for execution And yet you conclude after your maner Thus dothe the kinge take vpoÌ„ him aÌ„d thus doe the Bishops yelde vnto him the Gouernement as wel of Ecclesiastical as TeÌ„poral causes and thinges And this you conclude a gouernement whiche in all your premisses was not so muche as named Your Conclusion is alwaies full and mightye But your proufes are voyde and fainte M. Horne The .104 Diuision pag. 66. a. Pope Leo .4 vvriteth his humble letters vnto Lotharius on the behalfe of one Colonus vvho vvas chosen to be Bishop of Reatina but he might not consecrate him vvithout the Emperours licence first obteined thereunto and therfore praieth the Emperour of his fauour tovvardes Colonus Vt vestra licentia accepta ibidem Deo adiuuante eum consecrare valeamus Episcopum That hauing your licence wee may haue authority by Goddes helpe to consecrate him Bishoppe there Vppon this vvoorde Licence The Glosser noteth the consente of the Prince to be required after the election be made .342 Nexte to Leo sauinge the .343 vvoman Pope Iohan vvas Benedictus .3 chosen vvho vvas ratified and confirmed by the Emperours authority vvho sente his Embassadours to Rome for that purpose This Pope is commended for his greates godline But he vvas ouer godly to liâ—e longe in that sea neuerthelesse he vvas not so godly as the moste of his successours vvere altogether vngodly as your .344 ovvne vvriters make reporte And to note this chaunge the better Nauclerus telleth of diuers vvonders hovv the Deuil appeared in an vgly shape and hurled stones at men as they vvent by set men togeather by the eares bevvrayed theeues and Priestes of their Lemmans and such like Hovv it rained bloud three daies and three nightes Hovv great Grassehoppers vvith six vvings and six fete and tvvo teeth harder then any stone couered the ground and destroyed the fruites not altogether vnlike those Grassehoppers that S. Iohn noteth in his ReuelatioÌ„ to come froÌ„ the bottoÌ„les pit after the starre vvas fallen After this folovved a great pestilence VVhich vvonders if they be true be not vnvvorthy the notiÌ„g considering the chaunge that follovved For hitherto stil from time to time although some Popes did priuily attempte the contrarye yet the Emperours .345 alvvayes kept the confirmation of the Pope the inuesturing of Bisshoppes and the ordering of many .346 other Ecclesiasticall matters till the next Pope began openly to repine at the matter and his successour after him to curse and some of those that folovved fell from chiding and cursing to plaine fighting for the same In the vvhiche combate though vvith much a doe at length they vvrong them selues from vnder the Emperours .347 obedience Yet alvvaies euen hitherto Princes haue had no litle interest in Ecclesiastical causes as hereafter shal appere The .12 Chapter Of. Leo .4 Benedictus .3 Nicolaus 1. Adrian .2 Martinus .2 Adrian .3 and of the .8 Generall Councell vnder Basilius the Emperour Stapleton WE goe on still with the Popes confirmation a matter as ye know nedelesse and such as might be spared sauing that M. Horne must take a foile euen of his owne allegation and Glosar Who as he saith the Princes consente is required after the election so he addeth Nisi aliud suade at scandalum vel praescripta consuetudo Onlesse saith he some offence or a prescribed custome moue vs to thinke otherwise Then is M. Horne in hand with Benedictus the .3 nexte Pope to the woman Pope Iohan who was confirmed by the Emperour But here M. Horne a man may doubt of this pointe whether this Benedictus was next to Pope Iohan. For if there was neuer such Pope Iohan then could not he be nexte to her And that it is rather a fable then a storie for al your great busines your Apologie and others make therein I thinke it hath ben already sufficiently proued Neither nede you to make so much wondering at the matter Except ye list to wonder at your selues whiche doe place the Popes Supreme authoritie in Princes be they men or women Yea and chyldren to And in so fewe yeares you haue had all three Man Childe And Woman The lesse meruaile had it bene if in so many hundred yeres we had had one woman pope which yet as I sayed is vtterly false as it hath bene sufficiently proued But touching this confirmation of popes and inuesturing of bishops which Adrian and Leo graunted to Charles the greate whych Ludouicus hys sonne gaue ouer againe which other princes coueted to haue after in their owne handes againe and which was denied them Gratian who hath collected the examples of both sydes geueth forth a true and an euident reason as well why to the one it was first graunted as also why to the other afterwarde it was most iustly denied Of the fyrst he sayeth The electioÌ„s of Popes and of other bishops to be referred to Princes and Emperours both Custome and lawe hath taught vs for the dissensioÌ„s of schismatiks and heretiks against whoÌ„ the Church hath ben defended oftentimes with the lawes of faithful Emperours The election therfore of the Clergy was presented to the Princes to the enteÌ„t that it being by their authority strengthened no heretike
handlinge of this storie as of your most false and yet most accustomable assertion that the supremacie of all causes ecclesiasticall remayned in themperous and not in the popes And as for Syluester him selfe howe he repented at the ende and what a miraculous token God gaue of his good state after his deathe the lerned Reader may see in Naucler Sabell and Platina as I haue otherwhere touched it against M. Iewell You reherse here yet a nomber of popes in the creation or deposition of whome themperour semed to haue somewhat to doe But altogether as we haue often shewed impertinently and otherwise lyingly and againste your self also directly browght in And to begin M. Horn euen with your first example of Arnulphus I pray you where fynde yowe in your authour that the kinge deposed him Your authour sayeth no suche matter but that the kinge did cast him in pryson beinge firste deposed by a synode of bishops Yet he made ye will say Gilberte the philosopher bisshop for him and afterward Otho the .3 made him archbishop of RaueÌ„na Ye might haue added aÌ„d pope to as your authour doth if ye had meant to deale playnly aÌ„d especially that the said Gilbertê° by pope Iohns authority was thrust out aÌ„d Arnulphus restored agayne as you heard before Ye doe nowe partly as before bely Platina and partly gheasse blindly as thowghe Platina durst not to flatter the popes withal playnly opeÌ„ his mynd aÌ„d as thowgh he shuld be of this mynd that he that coÌ„meth into the papacy without theÌ„perours coÌ„sent is but a theef and a robber Which is as true as before ye made him therfore a traytour For Platina geueth forth no such mening But sheweth two causes why this Iohn came not in by the dore The one that he came in by bryberie The other that he vsurped the see beiÌ„g not as yet vacaÌ„t Gregory whome ye write of as yet lyuiÌ„g aÌ„d beiÌ„g the lawful pope chosen by the voice of the clergy and by the coÌ„sent of theÌ„peror and all the people of Rome After al this ye say that HeÌ„rie the .3 deposed thre popes whom you cal thre moÌ„strous bestes of such a beastly sprite you are aÌ„d yet you lie in so sayiÌ„g For theÌ„peror by supreme Authorite deposed none But only for quyetnes sake as Sabel writeth coegit se dignitate abdicare Forced theÌ„ al to depose theÌ„ selues which by force no maruail if he did But by right neither he nor any maÌ„ liuing could haue deposed any pope They may be induced either by reason or by force to depose theÌ„ selues Farder you say this Emperour sware the RomaÌ„s that they should neuer be present at the popes electioÌ„ onlesse they were compelled by theÌ„peror It had bene wel done if ye had told vs who writeth so and withal by what warraÌ„t theÌ„perour could exclud the people froÌ„ their coÌ„sent which hitherto they gaue in the chosing of the popes Sabellicus your Author writeth of no such coÌ„pulsioÌ„ But that they should not so doe without his permissioÌ„ aÌ„d the reason he addeh Vt dignitas maneret illi inoffensa cauereturque in posterum pontificibus that pope Clement theÌ„ chosen might coÌ„tinewe quietly and that also for the quiet of other popes to come he might prouide Al which he did as a godly defendour not as a Supreme Gouernor of the Church Now if a maÌ„ would staÌ„d with you altogether aÌ„d say ye belie Stephanus aÌ„d certain other popes of such as ye haue here named I think he should not say farre froÌ„ the truth But yet because ye haue some authors on your side I wil not greatly charge your for this matter You tel vs in th end of this processe that the Emperour made Bauno pope aÌ„d was named Leo .9 But I tel you nowe M. Horn that the Emperors making was after vnmade aÌ„d this Bauno made pope by the Clergy in Rome For where as this Bauno chosen first of themperour came out of Germany to Rome al in his Pontificalibus as alredy pope Hugo that famouse aÌ„d lerned Abbat of CluniacuÌ„ aÌ„d HildebraÌ„d who after was pope Gregory .7 met him in the way aÌ„d shewed him that theÌ„peror had no right to choose the pope that the same right belonged to the Clergy and City of Rome that he should lay down his bishoply attyre come to Rome as a priuate man and then if he were thought mete by the lawfull consent of the clergie and city to be chosen Their counsell he folowed openly detestinge his former rashnes that at the Emperours only choyse he had taken vpon him that highe office Thus afterwarde in Rome he was lawfully chosen there he was made pope and named Leo .9 not by the Emperour only as M. Horne only telleth And this al historians in maner do witnesse M. Horne The .113 Diuision Fol. 71. b. After this Leo vvhom Hildebrand ridde out of the vvay saith Benno Cardinalis vvas Victor the seconde made Pope by the Emperours authority or priuilege Shortly after this Godly Emperour died being greatly praised and surnamed Pius Henricus for his dealing in the reformation of Church matters This Emperour had called tvvo Councels the one at CoÌ„stance vvherein he vvas himself present and after that another at Moguntia vvherein both the Emperour and the Pope sat in Synod This Pope saith Nauclerns came into Germany about the Church matters and ordered al things therein saith Abbas Vrspur by the aduise and counsaile of themperor and other seculer Princes and the bishops And as this Emperour had yet this interest in the Councelâ— and in the creatioÌ„ of the Pope himself so had he the placing and displacing allovving aÌ„d disallovving in other spiritual promotions as at large appeareth in Naucler StepheÌ„ .9 vvas chosen Pope after that Victor had dronken of .377 Hildebrands cup. But this Sthphen liued not long for saith Benno If any other than Hildebrand were chosen Pope Gerardus Brazutus Hildebrands familiar friend would soone dispatche hiÌ„ out of the way with poyson Alexander .2 vvas chosen vvithout theÌ„perors authority or knovvledge vvith vvhose electioÌ„ the vvhole Clergy of LoÌ„bardy vvas much offended and refused to ovve vnto hiÌ„ any obedieÌ„ce beseching theÌ„peror that he vvould geue them liceÌ„ce to chose one of their ovvn persuading him 378 that there ought none to be elect without the coÌ„sent of the king of Italy After thei had liceÌ„ce thei chose Cadolus the bishop of Parma vvhoÌ„ al the Clergy of LoÌ„bardy obeyed as their lauful Pope The Cardinals saith BeÌ„no knowing wel HildebraÌ„ds ambitioÌ„ did win with much sute theÌ„perors fauour and aide to their new elected Pope Cadolê° the which did so depely perce the haâ—t of HildebraÌ„d that he becam a deadly enemy to theÌ„peror for euer after coÌ„trary to the faithful duty that he had sworn vnto hiÌ„ Hard hold there vvas betvvixt these tvvo .379 Popes so vvel vvith strokes as vvith vvoords they both gathered great armies and vvith their
It is straÌ„ge me thinketh to heare at your haÌ„ds of the Popes holy haÌ„d namely seing your authour Nauclerus speaketh of hys haÌ„d only withowt any other additioÌ„ Belyke there is come vppon yow some sodayne deuotion towards the Popes holines But lo I see now the cause of your deuotioÌ„ The Popes haÌ„d is holy with yow now wheÌ„ he being forced aÌ„d coÌ„strayned deliuereth vppe such priuileges as with his heart he did not deliuer and therfore did afterward in a CouÌ„cel of Bishops reuoke al these doinges Whiche your authour in the nexte leaf as also Sabellicus at large doth declare and what sturre aÌ„d busines the Emperour made for it swearing first to the Pope that he wold vse no violence and that he woulde cause all the Bishops of Germany which had bene made by Simonye to be deposed Who yet afterward brake bothe partes of his Oâ—he Toke the Pope out of Rome with him as prisoner because he would not confirme his symoniacal Bisshops And after long vexation of the Pope and spoiles of the Romaine territorie extorted at the lengthe by fine force his consente thereto which yet after the Emperour being departed he reuoked as I said in a ful Councell And this periurie and violence of this Emperour the Italian Emperours doe witnesse also Briefly al came to this conclusion that Paschalis being dead the Emperour shortly after renounced to the Pope Calistus the .2 all this inuesturing of Bisshops and left to the clergy the free electioÌ„ without the princes coÌ„firmatioÌ„ which was al that Paschalis grauÌ„ted to this Emperour For the grauÌ„t of Paschalis as it is recorded in Nauclere referreth it selfe to the former grauntes of his predecessours made to Catholike Emperours And farder he specifieth his graunt thus That he haue priuilege to geue the staffe and the ring to al Bisshops and Abbats of his dominions being first freely chosen without violence or symonie and to be afterward consecrated or ordered of the bisshop to whom they belong But al this was as I haue said both reuoked of Pope Paschalis and geuen ouer of Henrie the fift But I pray you tell me was your holy hand so vnlustie and heauy that ye could or rather would not set in this also being a parcell of your authors narration and the finall conclusion of this great controuersie Whiche as it was theÌ„ troblesom to the church many yeres so it is troblesom also to your Reader as occupiyng a greate parte of your booke but no part of your principal mater and yet as litle material as it is in fine al agaiÌ„st you And therfore ye shake the ful declaratioÌ„ of the mater from your holy handes as a man would shake away a snake for feare of stinging M. Horne The .115 Diuision pag. 74. b. The next Emperour to Henrie vvas Lotharius vvho so laboured vvith the Pope to retaine the inuesturing of Ecclesiasticall persons and besides that he so trauailed in other Ecclesiastical causes so .396 vvel as Temporal that saith Vrspurg Huius laus est à vindicata religione legibus The praise of this Prince is in that he refourmed Religion and the Lawes Next to vvhom vvas Conradus the Emperour to vvhome the Romaines vvrote supplications to come and chalendge his right in these matters to reduce the fourme of the Empire to the olde state whiche it was in in Constantine and Iustinians daies and to deliuer them from the .397 tyranny of the Pope To vvhom also the Pope vvrote humble supplications to take his cause into his protection against the Magistrates of Rome which toke vppon them to reduce the Pope to the olde order and state of the .398 aunciente bisshoppes of Rome Stapleton Let the Emperour Lotharius labour to retain the inuesturing of Bishops which as ye heard Henrie the .5 resigned before to Calistus let him if ye will needes vse that word reforme the ciuil lawes and religion to the meaning wherof is no more but that he restored the ciuil Lawe the vse therof being discoÌ„tinued many yeres aÌ„d restored Pope InnoceÌ„tius the .2 to his See beiÌ„g thrust out by an Antipope wherof he was called Fidelis Ecclesiae aduocatus a faithfull defeÌ„der of the Church Yet why do you vtter such grosse lyes M. Horne telling your Reader that the Romaines besought th' Emperor to deliuer them froÌ„ the tyraÌ„ny of the Pope Neyther Otho Fringensis nor Nauclerus who rehearseth his words haue any such thing The Romaines at that time would be lusty a Gods name and reduce their state to the old magnificence of the victorious Romaines being proud of a litle victorie whiche they had against the Tiburtines And therefore the Pope complained to the Emperour of their tyrannie not they of the Popes tyrannie Yea they thrusted out the Emperours Praefectus and placed in his roome their owne Patricius And so woulde shake of as well the Emperour as the Pope Foorth then with the storie Let Pope Lucius .2 make huÌ„ble supplicatioÌ„ to the Emperour Conradus against the Magistrates of Rome coÌ„cerning the ciuil regiment of Rome and their subiection to the Pope in temporalities for that was the matter and no other and yet were they faine shortlye after to submitte them selues to Eugenius .3 the next Pope Let all this be as you tell it not perspicuouslie but couertlie as though the Romaines then woulde haue bene Schismatiques as you are nowe and denied his Authoritie in Spiritual causes as you doe nowe let all this as I saie be graunted vnto you But then I pray you set your conclusion to it that therefore the Prince is Supreme Gouernour in all causes Ecclesiasticall and then shall euery childe sone conclude with you that your Conclusion concludeth nothinge to the purpose For all the strife and contention here was partely about Temporall and Ciuill regiment partely not against the Popes Authoritie absolutelye but against such or suche a Pope whiche thing I woulde haue you wel to note Maister Horne not here onelye but in all these and other quarrellings of Emperours againste Popes That they neuer repined againste the Popes Authoritie as the Pope but they repined against this man or that maÌ„ whom they woulde not agnise for the Pope but some other by them selues elected M. Horne The .116 Diuision pag. 74. b. Next to vvhome follovved the Godly and zelous Emperour Frederike the firste vvho .399 seeing the horrible vices of the Romissh Church commaunded that no Legate of the Church of Rome should be suffered to enter into Germanie without he were called or hyred of the Emperour nor would suffer that any man vnder the name of appellation shuld goe vnto the Court of Rome After the death of Adrian the fovvrth the Cardinals fell out amongest them selues for the Election of a nevv Pope some stryuinge to haue Rovvlande other some contendinge to haue Octauian a man saith Abbat Vrspur in all points honest and religious Herevppon sprang an horrible schisme and great discord Rouland
make not for the commendation of the Popes moderation and humility yet yt maketh for hys supreame authority I obey sayeth the Emperour not to thee but to Peter whome thow doest succede But to th entent that you M. Horne with the Apologie and M. Foxe who alwaies like bestly swyne do nousell in the donge and vente vp the worste that may be founde against Popes and prelates may haue a iuste occasioÌ„ if any Charity be in you to coÌ„mende the greate moderation of this Pope Alexander 3. you may remember that this is he to whoÌ„ being in extreme misery through the oppressioÌ„ of the Almayne Army spoyling aÌ„d wasting al aboute Rome Emanuel then Emperour in the East sent embassadours promysing bothe a great hoste against the Almayne Emperour Friderike and also a vnioÌ„ of the Grecians with the Romain Church if he would suffer the Romain Empire so loÌ„ge diuided froÌ„ the time of Charlemayn to come agayne to one heade and Empire to whome also being then in banishment the sayde Emperour sent a seconde embassy with great quantytie of mony promysing to reduce the whole East Churche vnder the subiection of the West all Grece vnder Rome if he woulde restore to the Emperour of Constantinople the Crowne of the West Empire from the which Frederike seemed nowe rightlye and worthely to be depriued To all which this Pope notwithstanding the greate miseries he stode presentlye in and was daily like to suffer through the power of this Frederike answered Se nolle id in vnum coniungere quod olim de industria maiores sui disiunxissent That he woulde not ioyne that into one which his Forefathers of olde time had of purpose diuided You will not I trowe denie M. Horne all circumstances duely coÌ„sidered but that this was a very great aÌ„d rare moderatioÌ„ of this Pope AlexaÌ„der 3. more worthy to be set forth in figures aÌ„d pictures to the posteryty for sober and vertuous then that facte of him whiche Mayster Fox hath so blased oute for prowde and hasty Except your Charyties be suche as verely it semeth to be that you take more delight in vice then in vertue and had rather heare one lewde fact of a Pope then twenty good If it be so with you then is there no Charyte with you For Charyte as S. Paule describeth it Thinketh not euill reioyseth not vpon iniquyte but reioyseth with verytie It suffreth all thinges it beleueth all thinges it hopeth al thinges it beareth all thinges Contraryewyse you not only thinke but reporte alwaies the worst you reioyse and take greate pleasure vpon the iniquytie of such as you ought most of all men to reuerence you are sorye to haue the veryty and truthe tolde you You suffer and beare nothing in the Church But for the euil life of a fewe you forsake the CoÌ„munion and societie of the whole You beleue as much as pleaseth you and you hope accordingly And thus muche by the way ones for all touching your greate ambition and desire to speake euil of the Popes and to reporte the worste you can doe of them which you in this booke M. Horne haue done so plentifullye and exactlye throughe this whole processe of the Princes practise in Ecclesiastical gouernment as if the euill life of some Popes were a direct and sufficient argument to proue all Princes Supreme Gouernours in al thinges and causes Ecclesiasticall I coulde now shewe you other authorityes and places oute of your owne authours concerninge thys storye of Friderike the first making directlie againste you and wherein ye haue played the Cacus As where ye wryte by the authoritie of Vrspergensis that the Emperour sent for both theis Popes to come to hym mynding to examine both they re causes For yt followeth by and by not to iudge them or the cause of the Apostolique see but that he might learne of wise men to whether of them he shoulde rather obey And is not this thinke you M. Horne so craftely to cut of and steale away this sentence from your reader a preatye pageant of Cacus Namely seing your authour Nauclerus writeth also the like And seyng ye demeane your selfe so vnhonestly and vnclerkly in the principall matter who will nowe care for your extraordinarye and foolishe false excursions against the welthy pride the fearce power the trayterouse trecherie of Popes at that tyme Or for Erasmus comparing the Popes to the successours of Iulius Caesar Or for Vrspergensis owteries against their couetousnes and not againste the Popes authoritye As for S. Bernarde who you say founde faulte with the pompe and pride of Eugenius 3. how clerely he pronounceth that not withstanding for the Popes Primacy I referre you to be shorte to the Confutation of your lying Apologie Al this impertinent rayling rhetorike we freely leaue ouer vnto you to rayle and rolle your self therein til your toÌ„g be wery againe yf ye wil for any thiÌ„g that shal let you Only as I haue ofteÌ„ said I desire the Reader to marke that as wel this as other emperors were not at variaÌ„ce with the See Apostolike it self or set against the Popes Authority absolutely but were at variaunce with such a pope and such and were set against this mans or that mans election not renouncing the Pope but renouncing this man or that man as not the true and right Pope M. Horne The .117 Diuision pag. 76. a. About this tyme the King of Cicilia and Apulia had a dispensation from the Pope for money to Inuesture Archebisshops with staffe or crosier ringe palle myter sandalles or slippers and that the Pope might sende into his dominions no Legate onlesse the kinge should sende for him Stapleton Did the Kings of Sicilia procure a dispensation as ye say M. Horne from the Pope to inuesture bisshops and to receyue no Legate Who was then the supreame heade I praye you the Pope that gaue the dispensation or the King that procured yt Ye see good readers howe sauerlye and hansomly this man after his olde guise concludeth against him self M. Horne The .118 Diuision pag. 76. a. Our English Chronicles make report that the Kings of this Realme hadde not altogeather leafte of their dealing in Churâ—he matters but continued in parte their iurisdiction aboute Ecclesiasticall causes although not vvithout some trouble The Popes Legate came into Englande and made a CouÌ„cel by the assent of King VVilliam the Conquerour And after that in an .412 other CouÌ„cel at VVinchester were put down many Bisshops Abbatts and priours by the procuremeÌ„t of the King The King gaue to LaÌ„frauke the Archbisshoprike of Cantorb and on our Ladye daie the Assumption made him Archebisshope On whit Sonday he gaue the Archbisshoprike of Yorke vnto Thomas a Canon of Bayon VVhen Thomas shoulde haue bene consecrated of Lanfranke there fell a strife betvvixt them about the liberties of the Church of Yorke The controuersie being about Church matters vvas brought and referred
promising by othe to Aldrede Archbisshop of Yorke that crouned hiÌ„ at S. Peters alter in Westminster before the clergy and the people that he would defende the holye Churches and their gouernours But tel your readers good M. Horn I beseche you why that King WilliaÌ„ contrary to the auncieÌ„t order vsed euer before and since was not crowned of Stigandus theÌ„ liuing and being Archbishop of Canterbury but of the bishop of York Yf ye can not or wil not for very shame to betraie your cause tel you reader then wil I do so much for you Forsoth the cause was that the Pope layde to his charge that he had not receiued his palle canonically The said Stigandus was deposed shortly after in a Councell holden at Winchester in the presence of .ij. Cardinals sent froÌ„ Pope Alexander the .2 and that as Fabian writeth for thre causes The first for that he had holden wroÌ„gfully the bisshoprik whyle Robert the Archbishop was liuing The second for that he had receyued the palle of Benett bishop of Rome the fifth of that name The third for that he occupied the said Palle without liceÌ„ce and leful authority of the court of Rome Your author Polychronicon writeth in the like effect Neubrigensis also newly priÌ„ted toucheth the depositioÌ„ of this StigaÌ„dus by the Popes Legat in EnglaÌ„d aÌ„d reporteth that the Popes Legat Canonically deposed him What liking haue you now M. Horne of KiÌ„g WilliaÌ„s supremacy Happy are you with your fellowes the protestaÌ„t bishops and your two Archbisshops that the said WilliaÌ„ is not now king For if he were ye se cause sufficieÌ„t why ye al shuld be depriued aswel as StigaÌ„dê° And yet ther is one other thiÌ„g worse thaÌ„ this and that is schisme and heresy Who woulde euer haue thought good reader that the Pope should euer haue found M. Horne him selfe so good a proctour for the Papacy againste him self and his fellowes For lo this brasen face which shortly for this his incredible impudency will be much more famouse then freer Bacons brasen head of the which the schollers of Oxforde were wonte to talke so much doth not blushe to tel thee good reader to his owne confusion of the Popes Legates and the Councell kepte at Winchester And al this is ye wotte wel to shewe that Kinge William was supreme head in al causes as wel temporall as spiritual Then doth he pleade on foorth full lustely for the Pope for Kinge William heareth a certayne Ecclesiasticall matter beinge in controuersie and dependinge in the Popes cowrte betwene the Archebisshop of Yorke and the Archebisshop of Caunterbury the which cause the Pope had remitted to be determined by the King and the bishops Well said M. Horne and like the Popes faithfull proctour For hereof followeth that the Pope was the supreame head and iudge of the cause And the Kinge the Popes Commissioner by whose commaundemeÌ„t the cause was sent ouer to be heard in EnglaÌ„d And yet was Hubertus the Popes Legat present at the end this notwithstaÌ„ding M. Horne would now belike make vs belieue that King William also thrusted out Abbats and supressed Monasteries when yt pleased him For he telleth vs that by the KiÌ„gs iudgement Abbat Thurstan was chaunged and his monks scattered abrode but he had forgotte to set in also that his authour and others say that it was for slaying of certayne of his monkes and wounding of certayne other The monks also had hurt many of his men And your author of the PollichronicoÌ„ telleth that these moÌ„ks were scattered abrode by the kiÌ„gs hest by diuers bisshopriks and abbays which latter words ye leue out As also you do in your Author FabiaÌ„ who saith not they were scattred about as you reporte as though they had bene scattred out of their coates as of late dayes they were but he saieth they were spred abrode into diuers houses through Englande so that they chaunged but their house not their Religion And so this was no spirituall matter that the kinge did neither gaue he herein any iudgement in any spirituall cause Nowe if all other argumentes and euidences fayled vs to shewe that kinge William toke not him self for supreame gouernour in all maner causes as you moste vntruely and fondly auouche we might well proue it againste yowe by the storie of Lanfranke whome kinge William as ye confesse made archebishop of Canterburie Though according to your olde manner ye dissemble aswell the depryuation of Stigandus in whose place the king set Lanfranke as that Lanfranke receyuid his palle from Rome and acknowledged not the kinge but the pope for supreame head of the Church Which thing doth manifestly appeare in his learned boke he wrote againste your greate graundsier Berengarius Who as ye doe nowe denied then the transubstantiation and the real presence of Christes bodie in the Sacramente and called the Churche of Rome which had condemned his heresie as ye vse to doe the Church of the malignante the councell of vanitye the see of Sathan To whome Lanfrancus answereth that there was neuer anie heretyke anie schismatyke anie false Christian that before hym had so wyckedly babled againste that see And sayth yet farder in an other place of the sayd boke Quotquot a primordio Christianae Ecclesiae Christiani nominis dignitate gloriati sunt etsi aliqui relicto veritatis tramite per deuia erroris incedere maluerunt sedem tamen sancti Petri Apostoli magnificè honorauerunt nullamque aduersus eam huiusmodi blasphemiam vel dicere vel scribere praesumpserunt Whosoeuer from the begynning of Christes Church were honored with the name of ChristeÌ„ meÌ„ though some forsaking the Truth haue gone astray yet they honoured much the See of Peter neyther presumed at any time either to speake or to write any such blasphemy He saieth also that the blessed Fathers doe vniformly affirme that maÌ„ to be an heretike that doth dissent from the RomaÌ„ and vniuersal Church in matter of faith But what nede I lay furth to thee good Reader LanfraÌ„ks learned books or to goe from the matter we haue in hand ministred to vs by M. Horne coÌ„cerning this matter sent to be determined before the King Such as haue or can get either PolychronicoÌ„ or FabiaÌ„ I would wish them to see the very place and thaÌ„ wil they meruail that M. Horne would for shame bring in this matter agaiÌ„st the Popes primacy for the confirmation wherof ye shal find in LaÌ„franks reasoning before the King for his right vpoÌ„ the church of York somthing worth the noting for the Popes primacy Beside this he writeth that Lanfrank was a man of singular vertue coÌ„stancy and grauity whose helpe and couÌ„sel for his affaires the King chiefly vsed And therfore your coÌ„clusion that ye inferre of such premisses as ye haue specified which as I haue shewed do not impugne but establish the popes primacy is a very fond folish and false coÌ„clusion It appeareth well both
may serue you also for that ye alleage concerning Robert groshead sauing that I may adde this withall that he were a very Groshead in dede that would belieue you either when ye say to M. Fekenham whome ye call S. Robert seing M. Fekenham speaketh no woorde of this Robert no more then he doth of Robyn goodfellowe or that this story should make against the Popes primacie seing that your owne authour Fabian saith that this Robert being accursed of the Pope Innocentius appealed from his courte to Christes owne cowrte A manifeste argument of the popes supremacy As for Frederyk the Emperours episte to Kinge Henry what so euer he writeth against the Pope ye would be loth I suppose it shuld take place in EnglaÌ„d For then farewel your goodly Manours as WalthaÌ„ FarnhaÌ„ aÌ„d such other Neither were your geÌ„tleman Vssher like to ride before you barehead but both he and you to goe a foote or rather your self to go barefoted al alone M. Horne The .128 Diuision pag. 79. a. Levves the Frenche King called S. Levves vvho as Antoninus saith was so instructed euen from his infancy in all the wisedom of diuine and good orders that there was not found his like that kept the law of the high God c. made a lawe against those that blasphemed the name of the Lorde adioyning a penalty of a whote yron to be printed in the transgressours forehead Also in the yere of the Lorde .1228 He made a Law against the Popes fraudes concerning the preuentions and reâ—eruations of the reuenues and dignities Ecclesiastical complayning that the Pope had pulled from him the collations of all Spirituall promotions ordeining that from hence foorth the election of Bisshops Prelates and al other whatsoeuer should be free forcible aÌ„d effectual to the electors Patrones aÌ„d collatours of theÌ„ Also the same yere he set forth an other Law agaiÌ„st Simony coÌ„plainiÌ„g of the bieyng aÌ„d selliÌ„g of ecclesiastical dignities He made also certain godly Lavves against vvhoredome and FornicatioÌ„ Laste of all in the yeere of the Lorde .1268 he set foorth the Lavve commonly called Pragmatica Sanctio vvherein in amongest other Ecclesiastical matters against the Popes pollinges he saith thus Item in no case we wil that exactions or greuous burdens of money being laide on the Churche of our Kingdome by the Courte of Rome whereby our Kingedome is miserably impouerished be leuied or gathered nor any hereafter to be layed excepte only for a reasonable godly and moste vrgent cause of necessity that can not be auoided aÌ„d that the same be don by our expresse .438 biddinge and commaundement of our own accord .439 The .26 Chapter Of S. Lewys the French King Of Manfred and Charles King of Sicilia and Apulia Stapleton LEwes his Lawe against those that blasphemed the name of God maketh not him supreame head of the Churche Ye mowght haue put in as your authour doth those also that blaspheme the name of his blessed mother But the mention of this woulde haue greaued some of your sect that haue compared our Ladie to a saffron bagge making her no better then other women And what yf you or your confederats had liued then that say it is Idolatrie to pray to her and to praye her to pray for vs to her sonne Iesu Christe shoulde not ye haue had suppose you great cause to feare the printe of the hotte yron ye speake of As for the collations of spiritual promotions this Lewys bestowed none such as his predecessours by especial licences and priuileges had graunted vnto them froÌ„ the bisshops of Rome And that as I haue ofte said proueth no superiority of gouernemeÌ„t in Ecclesiastical matters except by the same reason you wil make euery Patrone of a benefice to be supreme gouernour in all Ecclesiasticall matters to his owne Vicar and Curate The embarringe of Exactions from the Courte of Rome is nothing derogatorye from the Spiritual power or Iurisdiction of the Churche of Rome For they are not vtterly embarred but the excesse of theÌ„ is denied aÌ„d in any reasonable godly or vrgent cause of necessity they are graunted as your selfe alleage But to better a litle your badde cause you haue with a double vntruthe ended your allegation For where the King saieth Nisi de spontaneo expresso coÌ„sensu nostro not without our voluntary and expresse consent you turne it by our expresse bidding and commaundement and that it might seme to haÌ„ge of the Kings pleasure only you leaue out ipsarum Ecclesiarum regni nostri and of the Churches of our kingdom But what nede we lese more time in making more ample answer seing it is moste certaine that this Kinge and his realme acknowleadged the Popes Supremacye as muche then as euer since euen to this daye For where was your newe great Charles Friderike the seconde deposed from his Empire by Pope Innocentius the fourth but at Lyons in Fraunce And in whose Kinges dayes but of this Lewys Who defended many yeares together the Popes of Rome Innocentius the .4 Alexander the .4 Vrbanus the .4 and Clement the .4 againste the Emperour Frederike who therefore by treason went about to destroye him but this Kings Lewys Who warred him selfe in person againste the Sarracens at Thunys at Clement the Popes request but this Lewys Who also before that making his voyage into the holy laÌ„de against the SouldaÌ„ tooke benediction and absolution of Pope Innocentius the .4 lying theÌ„ at the Abbye of Cluny in Fraunce but this Lewys And did not the sayed Clement make by his Authoritye Charles this Lewys his brother King of Sicilia and Apulia And wil you make vs nowe beleue M. Horne that this Kinge was suche a Supreme Gouernour as you imagine Princes ought to be or that in his tyme the Popes Supremacy was accompted a forrayne power in Fraunce as it is with you in Englande No. No. M. Horne Seeke what age and what Countre you wil you shal neuer finde it while you liue M. Horne The .129 Diuision pag. 79. b. Conradus Conradinus and Manfredus .440 stil kepte the priuilege of the foresaide Ecclesiastical matters in Sicilia and Apulia Shortly after this tyme Charles the King of Sicilia and Apulia had .441 al or most of the dooing in the elelection and making of diuerse Popes as of Martyn .4 Celestyn .5 Boniface .8 c. Stapleton To these matters of Sicilie I haue already more then ones answered and doe now say again that this priuilege consisted only in inuesturing of bisshops graunted by Alexander the .3 and after reclaymed by Innocentius the .3 Whereby it wel appereth that this allegation maketh rather with the Popes Primacy then against it but most of all in this place For Pope Alexander the .4 declared this Manfredus the Romain Churches enemy as he was in dede and a traytour also both to Conradus his brother and to Conradinus his nephewe both inheritours to that kingdome both
others part of whom your brethern of Basil haue patched vp togeather in a greate volume as they laboure al to proue the Emperour aboue the Pope in temporal iurisdiction and gouernemēt wherin yet they erred as we haue said so none of thē al doe labour to proue the Emperour supreme gouernour in spirituall and ecclesiastical causes as you the first founders of this heresy do say and sweare to but do leaue that to the Bishoppes yea and some of them to the Pope to And therefore al were it true that they wrote in the fauoure of Lewys the .4 then Emperour yet were you neuer the nerer of your purpose by one iote This is M. Horne your owne proper and singular heresy of England to make the Prince supreme gouernour in causes ecclesiastical You only are Laicocephali that is such as make the lay Magistrates your heads in spirituall matters Ye adde then more force to your matter by a great coūcel kepte at Franckford wherat the king of Beame and of Englande also were presente of which wyth other things is set forth by a special ād a latin letter as the precise words of Marius or of the additiō adioyned to Vrspergensis But neither they nor anye other of your marginall authours speake of the king of Englād And when ye haue al don ād who so euer was there yt was but a schismatical conuenticle and yet muche better then your late conuocations Yf the articles of your sayde conuocations had comme to theire handes no dowbte they had bene condemned for a greate parte of them for most blasphemous heresies Wel The Emperour saith say you that his authority depēdeth not of the Pope but of God immediatly and that it is a vayne thinge that is wonte to be sayde the Pope hath no superiour yf ye could proue this Emperour an Euangelist or this Coūcel a lawfull Generall Councel we would geue some eare to you And yf themperours authority depende so immediatly of God shewe vs goddes commaundement geuē rather to the Germans then to the Frenche or English mē to chose an Emperour Most of the other princes Christiā in Europa holde by succession and not by electiō And yf ye cā shew vs any other cause of the diuersity but the Popes only ordinance then shal ye quite your self lyke a clerke Yf ye cā not shewe other cause then shal ye neuer be able to shewe vs good cause why the Pope should not clayme the cōfirmation Yet is yt sayeth M. Horne a vayne thing to say the Pope hath no superiour but yt is more vainelye and fondlye done of you M. Horn to the descrying of your false dealing and to the destruction of your Primacy to bring foorth this saying For your sayd councel recogniseth the Pope as superiour in all causes ecclesiastical And where yt sayeth yt hath a superiour why do ye not tel vs as your authours do who is his superiour Is it the Emperour wene you or any temporal Prince as ye wold make your vnlearned reader belieue No no. Your councel meante and so both your authours plainely declare that it was the generall councell to the which themperour had appealed Where you adde the Actes of this Councell were ratified by the Emperours letters patents and do bring in thervpon as the Emperours letters against the Popes processes you beguile your Reader and belie your Author Nauclerus For those letters patents this Emperour gaue forth not as ratifiyng the Actes of that Councel as you say but De concilio quorundā fratrū Minorum sub sigillo suo vpō the aduise of certaine Minorits vnder his owne seale And againe vocata solenni curia At the keping of a solemne Courte Of the Acts of that Councel Nauclere speaketh not in this place neither reporteth these leters pattēts to haue proceded therof Thus of Princes Courtes ye make great Councels and of the aduise of certaī Friers you frame to your Reader the cōsent of many bishoppes By suche pelting shiftes a barren cause must be relieued But now are ye yet againe in hand with an other Councel at Frankford by this Emperour and with certaine heresies that Pope Clement laid to this Emperours charge It would make a wise man to wonder to consider to what end ād purpose this stuffe is here so thrust in Neither cause can I as yet coniecture any vnlesse I shoulde impute it to Maistres folie or to dame heresie or to both or to the speciall ordinaunce of God that suffreth this man for the malice he beareth to the Catholike Church to wexe so blind that he speaketh he wotteth not what and seeth not whē he speaketh moste against him selfe nor the matter that he would gladly defend For beside as many lies as be almoste lines as that he telleth of an heresie first laid to the Emperours charge which was not the first as ye shal vnderstand anon Item that the Pope sayed he was an heretike because he said Christ ād his Apostles were poore wherin he doth excedingly lie vpon pope Clement Item that th'Emperour set forth lawes Ecclesiasticall concerning mariages and deuorcemēts which his Authours say not nor is otherwise true beside all this he declareth his Emperour to be a very heretike and him selfe also or at the least to be but a very foolish fond man I wil therfore for the better vnderstāding of the mater first rehearse you his authors wordes and then adde to it some further declaratiō mete for the purpose The first heresy saith Nauclerus was that the Emperour affirmed that the Decree made by Pope Iohn the .22 touching the pouerty of Christ ād his Apostles was heretical swearing that he beleued the contrarie He auouched moreouer that it appertained to the Emperour to make or depose Popes Furthermore being cited to answere in a cause of heresie and being accursed for his cōtumacy he hath cōtinued almost these tēne yeres in the said curse He retained also in his cōpany one Iohn of Landenio an Archeheretik He maketh bisshops he breaketh the interdict and doth expel thē out of their benefices that wil not breake it He seuereth matrimonies cōtracted in the face of the Church and ioyneth persons together in the degrees forbiddē He meaneth perchaunce sayeth Nauclere that he maried his sonne Lewys to the Coūtes of Tyroles her husbād Iohn the king of Beames son yet liuing saying that he was impotēt ād furder shee was maried to this Lewys being within the degrees prohibited Clemēt addeth beside that he hath set vp an Idole in the Churche and an Antipope and hath de facto deposed the Pope These are Nauclere M. Horn his authors precise words the which I pray thee good reader to conferre with M. Hornes glose and then shal ye see the mans honesty and fidelity in reporting his Authors This Emperor then was not accōpted an heretik because he said Christ ād his Apostles wer poore neither is this cōdemned for heresie by the foresaid Iohn the .22 but to say Christ and
Lawe good maister Horne and no Lawe at all of Kynge Philippe made by yowe I say with as good authoritie and truthe as the damnable articles were made in your late conuocation Howe so euer yt be here is nothinge amended but abuses which to be amended no good man will I wene be angrie withall But what say yow nowe maister Horne to the whole ecclesiasticall iurisdiction that the Frenche clergie practised What became of yt Did the king take yt away or no Whie are ye tounge tyed M. Horne to tell the truth that so freelie and liberally yea and lewdly to lie againste the truth Wel seing that ye can not wynne yt at Maister Hornes hands good reader ye shal heare it otherwise The effecte and finall resolution then of this debate was that the kinge made answere to the forsayd bishop of Sans demaunding his resolute answere in the behalfe of the whole clergy that the prelates shoulde feare nothinge and that they shoulde not lose one iote in his tyme but that he woulde defende them in theire righte and customes neither woulde he geue to other an example to impugne the Churche Wherevppon the Bisshoppe in the name of the whole clergie gaue to the kinge moste humble thankes Howe saye yowe good reader hath this man any more shame then hath a very Horne And dareth he to looke hereafter any honest man in the face Yet he wil say that Paulus Aemilius sayth that the King was fayne to make this sharp and seuere Lawe Why CaÌ„ Paulus Aemylius tell better what was done then your other authour Bertrande being presente and playing the chiefe parte in this play and setting yt forth to the world to your perpetual ignominie with his own penne Wel tel vs then what Paulus sayeth Marie saye yowe Paulus reporteth that composuit rem sacerdotum he did set in order the matters of the Priestes But who speaketh of your sharpe and seuere Lawe Wil not coÌ„ponere rem sacerdotuÌ„ agree with al that I haue told out of Bertrand himself Is now coÌ„ponere reÌ„ sacerdotuÌ„ to be englisshed to make a sharpe and a seuere law Suerly this is a prety expositioÌ„ aÌ„d a try me tricke of your new graÌ„mer Your Authour Aemilius vseth his word coÌ„posuit valdè aptè compositè very aptly and fytlie But you M. Horne with your gaye and freshe interpretation doe nothing else but Lectori fallacias componere deceyue and be guyle your reader or to speake more fytely to our purpose ye doe nothing else but Legem Philippi nomine componere counterfeyte a lawe in Philippes name whereof your authour Aemilius speaketh nothing For Aemilius declaring a notable victory that this King had ouer his enemies saith that the victory obteyned and after that he had made his prayers and geuen thankes therefore to God and to his blessed Martyres composuit rem Sacerdotum he set in order the Priestes matters Then doth he shortly specifie that the foresaide Petrus Cunerius complained vpon the clergy for the hearing of many matters that appertayned to the kiÌ„ges secular cowrte and that the foresaid Bertrandus made him answere declaring amonge other thinges that their beste Kinges in Fraunce the most florisshing and the most notable were euer the greateste patrons and defenders of the clergies liberties and that the other that impugned the same came to a miserable and wretched ende He saith further that the Kings answere being from day to day proloÌ„ged the said Bertrandus with a nomber of the prelates vpoÌ„ S. Thomas of Canterburies day went to the Kinge admonishiÌ„g him that S. Thomas in the defence of the Church liberties vppon that daye spente his bloud and lyfe The King at the length answered that he wuld rather encrease than impayre the Churches right Wherevpon all rendred vnto him thankes and the Kinge purchased himselfe thereby the name of a Catholike King Ye heare good reader an other maner of exposition of â—omâ—osuit remsaceâ—dotum by theauthour him self then is M. Hornes gaye lying glose made in his theeuish Cacus denne And therfore with these words wherewith Aemilius beginneth his narration M. Horne endeth the narration to putte some countenance vpon his false and counterfeite Lawe The clergy then enioyed still their liberties and iurisdiction which ordinarilye they had before either by Law or by custome and priuilege though as I said many causes were but temporall Al the which teÌ„poral causes the said Petrus Cunerius by the way of coÌ„sultation only and reasoning declared by some coulorable arguments to belong to the Kings cowrte onely But for excoÌ„municatioÌ„s synodical decrees examinatioÌ„s of meÌ„s beliefes aÌ„d such like he maketh theÌ„ not as ye bable teÌ„poral matters nor abridgeth the clergies iurisdiction therein but onely reproueth certayne abuses therin committed forthe which and for the other the clergy promised a reformation Let vs nowe see your policie aÌ„d to what benefit of your cause ye doe so lie Imagyne yf ye wil that al were true aÌ„d for ones we will take you for Philip the French King and your Law made in your Cacus denne to be in as good force as yf yt had ben made in open parliament in France What issue ioyne you thereof what due and ordinate consequeÌ„t is this the Frenche King maketh a seuere lawe against the clergie vsurping his iurisdiction Ergo the Pope is no Pope or ergo the King of England is the Pope of Englande Agayne yf al are temporal matters howe standeth yt with your doctrine especially of this booke that ye and your fellowes shoulde busie your selfe therewith Neither will yt ease you to say that ye doe yt by the Princes commissioÌ„ for Cunerius vppon whome ye grounde all this your talke dryueth his reason to this ende that spirituall men be not capable of temporall iurisdiction and therefore this commission will not serue you And yf ye holde by commission take heade your commission be well and substancially made But of this commission we shal haue more occasion to speake hereafter M. Horne The .136 Diuision pag. 82. b. In England at this tyme many abuses about Ecclesiasticall causes vvere refourmed although the Pope and his Clergie did earnestly .448 mainteine them by Kinge Edvvard the .3 vvho vvrote his .449 letters to the Pope admonishing him to leaue of his disordered doings and vvhan that vvould not serue he redressed them by act of parliament and as Nauclerus saith he commaunded that from thence forth no body should .450 bring into the Realme any kind of the Popes letters vnder the paine of drowning and expelled al persones out of his kingdome that were by the Pope promoted to any benefice The .32 Chapter Of Edward the .3 King of England Stapleton THis argument also is right futely to the precedent as resting vpoÌ„ the reformiÌ„g of abuses in matters Ecclesiastical But I pray you tel vs no more M. Horn of reformiÌ„g of abuses if you wil ani way furder your preseÌ„t cause
Quapropter sancitum est vt nulli mortalium deinceps liceret pro quauis causa agere apud Romanum Pontificem vt quispiam in Anglia eius authoritate impius religionisque hostis publicè declararetur hoc est excommunicaretur quemadmodum vulgò dicitur néue exequi tale mandatum si quod ab illo haberet Sincerely translated thus they stande A Councel sayeth he was called at Westmynster wherin yt was thowght good to the king and his Princes for theire common weale in Englande yf a parte of the Popes authority were bounded within the lymytes of the Occean sea because many were dayly troubled and vexed for causes which they thowght coulde not be well hearde at Rome Wherfore yt was decreed that yt should be lawfull for no man to sue to the Pope for euery cause to haue any man in Englande by his authority publikely pronounced a wicked man and an enemie of religion that is as the people commonly terme yt to be excommunicated And that if any man haue any suche commaundement he doe not exequute yt The statute then doth not embarre as ye most shamefully pretend all suites to Rome nor all excommunications from the Pope but only that it should not be lawfull to sue to Rome and procure excommunications indifferently as wel in temporal as in spiritual matters as it seemeth many did then And this doth nothing acrase the Popes ordinarie authoritie Now that this is the meaning your Authour him selfe sufficiently declareth First when he speaketh but of a parte of the Popes authoritie then when he sheweth that men sued to Rome for suche causes as were thought could not be heard there which must nedes be temporall causes And therefore ye ouerhipped one whole line and more in your translation thinking by this sleight so craftely to conueie into your theeuish Cacus denne this sentence that no man should espie you And for this purpose where your Authour writeth pro quauis causa agere that is to sue for euery cause Ye translate to trie any cause As though it were al one to say I forbidde you to sue to Rome for euery cause and to saie I forbidde you to sue to Rome for any cause And as though your Authour Polidore had writeÌ„ pro quacunque causa agere to trie any cause at al. The statute therefore doth not cut of al suites but some suites that is for suche matters as were temporal or thought so to be WherevppoÌ„ it wil followe that for all spiritual matters the Popes iurisdiction remained vntouched and nothing blemished For these woordes of the statute that men shoulde not sue in euerie cause to Rome imploye some causes for the whiche they might sue to Rome And so for all your gaie Grammar and ruffling Rhetorique the Popes authoritie is confirmed by this statute whiche ye bring againste it And this King Richard confirmed it and was redie to mainteine it not by words only but by the sworde also And therefore caused to be gathered fiftene thousand fotemen and two thousand horsemen and sent them out of the realme to defende Pope Vrbane against his ennemie and Antipope Clement You on the other side in this your victoriouse booke haue brought a iolie sorte of souldiers to the field to fight against the Pope but when all is well seene and examined ye doe nothing but muster lies together against the Pope as he did men to fight for the Pope A farre of and vppon the sodaine an vnskilfull man would thinke ye had a iolie and a well sette armie but lette him come nigh and make a good view and then he shal finde nothing but a sorte of scar crowes pricked vppe in mans apparell M. Horne The .140 Diuision pag. 13. a. The Churche of Rome at this time vvas marueilouslie torne in sunder vvith an horrible Schisme vvhiche continued about fortie yeares hauing at ones three heades calling them selues Popes euerie one of them in moste despitefull vvise calling the other Antichriste Schismatique Heretique tyraunt thiefe traitour the sonne of perdition sovver of Cockle the child of Beliall c. Diuerse learned men of that time inueighed againste them all three as Henricus de Hassia Ioan. Gerson Theodorych Nyem Secretarie before this to Pope Boniface vvho proueth at lardge by .456 good reasons by the vvoorde of God and by the Popes Decrees that the refourmation of these horrible disorders in the Chuche belong to the Emperour and the Secular Princes Sigismunde the noble Emperour vnderstanding his duetie herein amongest other his notable Actes called a Councell togeather at Constantia and brought againe to vnitie the Churche deuided in three partes whiche Councell saithe Nauclerus beganne by the Emperours coÌ„maundemente and industrye in the yeare 1414 To the vvhiche Councel came Pope Iohn before theÌ„mperors coÌ„ming thinking to haue 457 outfaced the Councell vvith his pretensed authoritie till the Emperoure came vvho geauing to all men in the Councel free libertie to speake their mindes a great companie of horrible vices were laied straight way to his chardge To the vvhich vvhen he vvas not able to ansvvere he vvas .458 deposed and the other tvvo Popes also and an other 459 chosen chieflie by the Emperonâ—s meanes called Martin the fifte After these things finished they entred into communication of a reformation bothe of the Clergie and the Laitie to vvhiche purpose the Emperour had deuised a booke of Constitutions and also vvilled certaine learned Fathers there but specially the Bisshoppe of Camera a Cardinall there presente to deuise vvhat faultes they could finde and hovve they shoulde be â—edressed not sparing any degree neyther of the Prelates nor of the Princes themselues VVhiche the Bisshoppe did and compiled a little booke or Libell entituled A Libell for reformation of the Churche gathered togeather by Peter de Aliaco c. And offered to the Churche rulers gathered togeather in Constaunce Councel by the commaundemente of the Emperoure Sigismunde cet In this Libell of refourmation after he hathe touched the notable enormities in the Pope in the Courte of Rome in the Cardinalles in the Prelates in Religious personnes and in Priestes in exactions in Canons and Decretalles in collations of benefices in fastings in the Diuine Seruice in Pictures in making festiuall daies in making Sainctes in reading theyr legendes in the Churche in hallovving Temples in vvoorshipping Reliques in calling Councelles in making Relligious souldiours in refourming Vniuersities in studying liberal Sciences and knovvledge of the tongues in repairing Libraries and in promoting the learned After all these thinges being .460 Ecclesiasticall matters or causes he concludeth vvith the dueties of Princes for the looking to the reformation of these matters or any other that needeth amendement The sixth saieth he and the last consideration shall be of the refourminge of the state of the Laie Christians and chieflie the Princes of whose manners dependeth the behauiour of the people cet Let them see also that they
cause to make much of this earthly Supremacy For had not the clergy and temporalty geuen that to kinge Henry .8 you and your heresies coulde haue had no place now in the throne of that Bishopprike which was ordayned not for Robert and his Madge but for chast prelates and suche as shoulde preferre the soule before the body the kingdome of heauen before the kingdome of the earthe Peter before Nero Christ before Antichrist For so I doubte not to say with the greate Clerke and most holy Bishop Athanasius that a Christian kinge or Emperour setting him selfe aboue bishops the officers of Christ in matters of the faythe is a very Antichrist Which Antichristian facte in dede hathe bene the first gate and entry for all those heresies to enter ▪ which the Prince him selfe then most abhorred and against the which bothe he had lately before made a lerned booke and did publishe after but in vayne for a stay thereof the six Articles In vayne I say for the order of dewe gouernement ones taken away the knotte of vnity ones vndone the heade being cut of howe coulde it otherwise be but false doctrine should take place a separation from the corps of Christendome shoulde ensewe and our Countrie a parte of the body fall to decaie in suche matters as belonged to the Heade to order direct and refourme This horrible sinne Maister Horne woulde make a vertue But all ages all Councels all Princes yea the holy Scriptures are directly against him and doe al witnesse for the Pope and Bishoppes against the Prince and lay Magistrat that to them not to these belongeth by right by reason by practise the Supreme and chiefe gouernement in al causes and matters mere Ecclesiastical and spiritual M. Horne The .145 Diuision pag. 87. a. To this .475 effect also vvriteth Petrus Ferrariensis a notable learned man in the Lavves saying Thou ignorāt mā thou oughtest to know that the Empire the Emperour ones in tymes past had both the swoordes to witte both the Temporal and Spiritual in so much that the Emperours then bestowed .476 al the ecclesiastical benefices through the 477 whole world and more they did choose the Pope as it is in C. Adrianus Dist. 63. And the same Petrus in an other place saith thus Marke after what sorte and how many vvaies those Clergymen do snare the Lay and enlarge their ovvne iurisdiction but alas miserable Emperours and secular princes which doe suffer this and other things you both make your selues sclaues to the Bisshoppes and ye see the vvorlde vsurped by thē infinit vvaies and yet ye study not for remedy because ye geue no heed to vvisedom and knovveleadge Stapleton YF your law be not better thē your diuinity we neade not much to feare our matter And so much the lesse yf that be true that a good mery fellowe and vnto you not vnknowen reading your boke of late sayd that he durst lay a good wager that yf ye were vppon the sodayne well apposed ye were not able to reade the quotations by your selfe in the margent alleaged out of this Petrus and withal that ye neuer readde that which ye alleage out of Quintinus or yf ye did ye do not vnderstande yt or at the leaste ye doe most wickedly peruerte yt But let this goe as merely spoken for thoughe ye neuer read the authour nor can redely at the first perchaunce reade your owne quotations the whole matter being by some of your frēds and neareste affinity brought ripe and ready to your hand we shal be wel cōtēt frō whēce so euer yt come so it come at length to any purpose and effect whereof I for my parte haue litle hope For what if in the old tyme the Emperours confirmed popes What if the cleargy vsurpe and intrude in many thinges vppon the seculer princes iurisdiction Yf ye may herof make a sequele that either the king of Englād is supreame head of the Church or that the vnlawful promisse made by the bisshops by their priesthod which ye esteme as much as yf they had sworne by Robin hode his bowe doth bynde them as a lawfull promisse I will say ye are sodenly become a notable lawyer and worthy to be retayned of councell in greate affayres I am assured of one thinge that howe so euer ye lyke him in this poynte yet for other poynts of this his boke that you alleage you like him neuer adeale As for the inuocation of Saints yea for the Popes Primacie by the which he sayth A periured man which otherwise is reiected may be by the Popes dispensation admitted to beare wytnes and that a clerke irregular can not be absolued but by the Pope Which followeth the very place by yowe alleaged with many such lyke not making very much to your lykinge Nowe what yf I should say vnto yowe that you and your authour to yf he sayth so say vntruely affirminge the Emperour to haue both the temporall and spirituall sworde And what if I should say that there is no more truth in that assertion than in the other that he bestowed all the benefices through the whole worlde For your chapter Adrianus that you alleage speaketh of the Emperour Charles the great who was not Emperour of the whole worlde nor of halfe Europa neither and therfore he coulde not bestowe the benefices of the whole worlde Yf ye wil say that your authour saith truly and ye haue translated truely for the text is per singulas prouincia◠I graunt yowe it is so but yet is it vnskilfully and ignorantly translated for ye shoulde haue sayed through out euery prouince or contrey subiect to the Romā empire For the Romans did call all countries that they had conquered Italie excepted prouinces and the people Prouinciales I say nothing nowe that this chapter rather enforceth then destroyeth the popes primacy For Charles had neither authority to bestowe the Ecclesiasticall benefices nor to choose the Pope but as he beinge a mere straunger before toke thempire at the popes hand so did he take also this speciall priuilege and prerogatyue M. Horne The .146 Diuision pag. 87. b. Like as Petrus Ferrariensis attributeth bothe the svvordes that is both the spirituall and the temporall iurisdiction to the Emperour So .478 Io. Quintinus Heduus a famous professour of the lavv in Paris and one that attributeth so much to the Pope as may be and much more than ought to be saith that In solo Principe omnis est potestas in the Prince .479 alone is al power and thereto 480. auoucheth this saying of Speculator De iurisdict omnium iudicum Quod quicquid est in regno id esse intelligitur de iurisdictione Regis that whatsoeuer is in a kingdome that is vnderstanded to be vnder the iurisdiction of the kinge To vvhich .481 purpose he citeth an auncient learned one in the Lavve vvhose name vvas Lotharius vvho saith he did say That the
Prince is the fountaine or welspring of all iurisdictioÌ„ and protesteth also him selfe to be of the .482 same mind The .39 Chapter Solutions to Argumentes taken out of Quintinus Heduus a Doctour of Parys Stapleton LET vs nowe take heede for M. Horne wonderfully lassheth on with Io. Quintinus Heduus and runneth his race with him two full leaues together And yet for all this sturre and heapinge Lawe vppon Lawe we might graunt him all that euer he bringeth yn without any preiudice of our cause and would so do in dede sauing that the handling of the matter by M. Horne is such as requireth of vs a special specification Neither can I tell of all the dishonest and shamefull pageantes that he hath hitherto played whether there be any comparable to this I can not tell whether his folly or his impudency be the greater but that bothe excede I am right well assured And yet I trowe he owght not to beare all the blame but may parte stake with his collectour who hath abused his ignorance as hym selfe doth abuse his readers ignorance The answere would growe longe and bigge yf I should fully as the case requireth rippe vp and open all thinges and then at large confute them which at this tyme I intende not but in vsinge as muche breuity as I may to lay before thee good reader and to discipher the fashion and maner of his dealinge Wherein euen as Medea fleinge from her naturall father and runninge away with a straunger with whome she fell in loue her father pursuing her and she fearing to be taken slewe her yong brother scattering his limmes in the way therby to stay what with sorowe and what with long seeking for his sonnes body her fathers iourney euen so M. Horne running away from the catholyke Church his mother with dame heresie with whose filthy loue he is rauisshed to stay the reader that woulde trace him and his heresyes for the authours he alleageth doth so miserably teare them in peces and dismember them that yt would pity any good Christian mans harte to see yt as muche as yt pitied kinge Oëta father to Medea to see that miserable and lamentable sight and very busie will yt be for him to finde out the whole corps of the sentences so wretchedly cutte and hewed by M. Horne and here and there in these two leaues so miserably dispersed We will notwithstanding trace hiÌ„ as we may TheÌ„ the better to vnderstaÌ„d his first allegatioÌ„ ye shal vnderstaÌ„d that ther is a kind of IurisdictioÌ„ which is called of the CiuiliaÌ„s meruÌ„ imperiuÌ„ that is power of lyfe aÌ„d death which whether it resteth in the priÌ„ce only or in other inferiour magistrates the Lawyers do not al agree Lotharius setled al in the prince to that opinion Quintinus also inclineth But then maketh Quintinus an obiection Whie sayeth he Howe is yt true that the prince onelye hath this mere empire or iurisdiction seinge that we affirme the Churche to haue yt also Whereunto he answereth that vnder the name of Princes are coÌ„teyned the highe Priestes from the which our Actes of parliament doe not all disagree calling Bisshoppes the Peeres of the realme When we say saieth he with Lotharius that the Kinge is the fountayne of all iurisdiction we meane as Lotharius doth not of the Churche but of the ciuill magistrates vnder the Kinge The said Quintinus saieth Gladium pontifex vtruÌ„que gestat exercet alterum Rex solus quem pontifex etiam desertus a suis in hostes licitè stringit The Pope hath both the swordes that is both temporall and spiritual iurisdiction yet the King alone vseth the one of theÌ„ that is the teÌ„poral the which the Pope may notwithstaÌ„ding yf he be forsakeÌ„ of his own vse also But as I was about to tel you out of QuiÌ„tinus he saith Probauimus Ecclesiam Deo militantem se noluisse temerè negotijs secularibus implicare temporalemque iurisdictionem principibus sponte reliquisse tamque libenter tamque animo prompto facili vt reguÌ„ propria videatur Id circo scriptum est à Speculatore quòd quicquid est in regno id esse intelligitur de iurisdictione regis We haue proued that the militant Church doth not but vpoÌ„ good cause intermedle with seculer affaires yea rather geueth ouer to Princes the temporall iurisdiction so gladly and so willinglye that yt seemeth to appertayne to the Princes onely And therefore Speculatour writeth that what so euer is in a Kingdome that is vnderstanded to be of the Kinges iurisdiction And for this some were persuaded that the spirituall and temporall iurisdiction stode so contrarie one to the other that one man might not exercise both But Quintinus hiÌ„self misliketh this opinion and saith euen in the said place where he speaketh of Speculator that the Church only aÌ„d not the Princes seculer hath both swordes and both iurisdictions And vpon this occasion he doth vehemently inueighe against Petrus de Cugnerio of whome we haue spokeÌ„ that did so stifflye stand against the FreÌ„ch clergy for their teÌ„porall iurisdictioÌ„ and prouoked the King Philip Valesius as much as in him laye to plucke it away froÌ„ the clergie He calleth him a misshapen parson in body a most wicked maÌ„ and to say al in one a very knaue And thoughe his name were then terrible and thowgh he would seeme for his great wisedome to carrie al the realme vpoÌ„ his shulders yet was he euer after but a lawghing stock to meÌ„ and because he durst not for shame after this great challeÌ„ge shew hiÌ„self abrode as he was wont to do for M. Peter de Cugnerio he was called in their tong M. Pierre de Coyner as a maÌ„ would say M Peter that lurketh in corners But wil ye now heare M. Horne this your own authour Quinâ—inus how he expouÌ„deth coÌ„posuit reÌ„ sacerdotum that is how the King set in order the matters of the priests Wil ye heare also what sharpe Law he made against theÌ„ as you auouch that he did He saith of the king PronuÌ„ciauit EcclesiaÌ„ feuda â—eÌ„poralia quaeque bona propria sibi possidere posse atque in illa iurisdictioneÌ„ habere He gaue senteÌ„ce and pronouÌ„ced that the Church might possesse fealtes and other temporal things aÌ„d haue iurisdictioÌ„ therein So much for our first entrauÌ„ce into QuiÌ„tinus Wherin beside the shame that ye must take for your worshipful glose vpoÌ„ coÌ„posuit reÌ„ sacerdotuÌ„ first ye see that he improueth FerrarieÌ„sis aÌ„d such like as attribute to the Emperour the spiritual and temporal sworde Then that he is of a quyte contrarie mynde to that that ye woulde by a sentence here and there yll fauouredlie and disorderly patched in enforce vpon as thowgh he should thinke that al iurisdictioÌ„ should come of the Prince Thirdly it is vntrue that he auoucheth Speculatours saying He auoucheth as ye haue hearde the contrary Fowrthly it is
of Martian the Emperour for calling of the Chalcedon Councell nextly alleaged M. Horns purpose is no whit furdered but Pope Leo his primacy euidently proued By the Actes also of the sayd Councell the popes and the bishops Supreme Iurisdiction in al ecclesiastical matters to be treated examined iudged and defined throughe out the whole Councel appeareth and M. Hornes purpose remayneth vtterly vnproued I haue farder out of the sayd Chalcedon Councell being the fourthe Generall and so one of the foure allowed in our Countre by Acte of parliament in the reigne of the Queenes Mai. present gathered euident and sundry argumentes for proufe of the Popes and bishops Supremacy in causes ecclesiasticall And here I require M. Horne or any mans els whatsoeuer to shewe howe it is possible without manifeste contradiction to allowe the Authorytie of this fourthe Generall Councel and to bannishe the Popes Authorytie which this whole Councel agnised or to geue to the Prince Supreme Authorytie in al ecclesiastical causes the same by this Councel resting in the bishops only not in the Prince at all In hath consequently ben shewed against M. Horne that his exāples of Leo and Zeno Emperours haue proued nothing lesse then his imagined Supremacy His next examples of three popes Simplicius Felix .3 and Symachus haue al proued so manifest testimonies for their owne Supremacy euen out of the bookes and places by M. Horne alleaged that in this matter he semeth a plaine preuaricatour and one secretly defending the cause which he seemeth openly to impugne Nowe in Fraunce M. Horne your lucke hath bene no better then before in the East Church and in Italy it was Your arguments in this behalfe haue bene to to pelting and miserable But the bishops Iurisdiction in all those matters hath bene as euident Your story of Iustinus the elder nextly by you alleaged but confusedly and out of measure mangled being wholy layed forthe hath plainely proued the popes Supremacy and nothing at al the princes Iustinian your next exaample and largely by you prosecuted hath neuer a whit proued your matter but for the Popes absolute Supremacy hath diuerse waies pronounced not onelye in his behauyour in the fifte Generall Councell but in his Edictes and Constitutions which you for your selfe so thicke haue alleaged In that place also I haue noted by diuerse exāples what euil successe Churche matters haue had whē Princes most intermedled Ther also by the way a Councell in Fraunce by M. Horne alleaged hath openly pronounced for the popes vniuersall Supremacy Your last examples taken out of Spayne haue nothinge relieued your badde cause but haue geuen euidēt witnesse for the Bishops Supremacy in ecclesiastical causes And thus farre haue you waded in the first .600 yeres after Christe without any one prouf for your newe Laicall Supremacy But for the popes and Bishops Supremacy in matters of the Church the Cōtinual practise of that first age and that in al Countres hath clerely pronounced as hath bene at large shewed In the third book as the race your runne is the longer ād triple to that ye ranne in before so is our cause the strōger and yours the febler or rather the wretcheder that in the cōpasse of .900 yeres that of so many Emperors kings and princes of so many Coūcels both General and National of so diuerse parts of the Christened worlde al the East part Italy Fraunce Spayne Germany and our own Countre of Englād yea of the Moscouites Armeniās and Aethyopiās to of all these I say not one Prince Councel or Coūtre maketh for you and not one prince Councell or Countre maketh against vs but all haue agnised the popes primacy and not one in the worlde of so many hundred yeres haue agnised or so muche as hearde of muche lesse sworen vnto the Princes Supreme Gouuernement in all Ecclesiasticall causes Your first proufe belyeth flatly the See of Rome and proueth nothing by any doing of Phocas the Emperour the Supremacy that you woulde proue The Kinges of Spayne and the Toletane Councelles haue made nothinge for you but haue clerely confounded you not only in the principal matters in hande but also in diuers other matters by your lewde heresies denied Your patched proufes and swarming vntruthes in your next narratiō touching certain Popes of Rome and of the Churche of Rauēna haue discouered the miserable wekenesse of your badde cause and nothing relieued yowe the Popes Primacy by your owne examples notwithstanding established Your fonde surmise against the Decree of Constantin .5 Emperour for the prerogatiue of the See Apostolike as it nothing furdered your matter in hande yf it had not bene made so it shewed wel the misery of your cause that to make your paradoxe to beare some credit you were fayne to discredit al the Historiās and writers of that matter calling them Papistes the Popes Parasites and fayners of that which they wrote The practise of Ecclesiasticall gouernement vsed in the sixt general Councel next by you alleaged cōfirmeth both in word and dede the Popes Primacy and the Bisshops Supreme iurisdiction in matters Ecclesiasticall and geueth forth no maner inckling of your imagined Supremacy In which only matter beside twenty vntruthes by you vttered there about you are as much confounded as in any other Councell or Countre before notwithstanding your great obiection of Pope Honorius to the which I haue there sufficiently aunswered Your talke of the three Kings of Spayne next ensewing and of the three Toletane Councells kept in their reignes doth so litle disproue the Supreme iurisdiction of Bisshops in Ecclesiastical causes that it maketh them Supreme iudges euen in ciuil causes So wide you are euer from prouing your purpose The .7 General Councel by you shortly noted doth amply and abundantly confirme the Popes Primacy and nothing in the worlde helpeth your purpose Charles Martel ād Carolomanus his sonne exercised no whit of your imagined Supremacy but haue cōfessed both clerely the Popes Primacy by their doings euē in the matters by your self treated Your most ignorant and ridiculous exposition made of the keyes of S. Peters Confession sent to this Charles and your extreme fonde argument deducted thereof hath vtterly shamed you yf any shame be in you Your slaunderous reproches against S. Augustine our Apostle and S. Boniface the Apostle of Germany and holye Martyr haue redounded to your owne shame and follye your cause thereby nothing in the worlde furdered No yf yt had bene all true which you hadde reported of them Charlemayne for all his callinge of Councelles confirmynge of the same and publishinge of Churche Lawes practised not yet anye like Gouuernement in Ecclesiasticall causes as you haue defended no nor anye Gouuernement at all but was lead and gouerned him selfe in all suche thinges of the Fathers and Bisshoppes then liuing especiallye of the See of Rome The whole Order also of the Councelles by you alleaged
infidels to the time of CoÌ„stantin the great He proueth his assertioÌ„ by S. Paule speaking thus to the clergy Take hede therfore vnto your selues and vnto the whole flock of Christ wherof the holy ghost hath apoiÌ„ted or made you bishops to gouern aÌ„d rule the church of God which he had purchased with his own bloud Here againe M. Horne wraÌ„gleth with M. FekenhaÌ„ aÌ„d wresteth his saying yea and belieth him to as though he should auouche as an inuincible argumeÌ„t that which he speaketh of the infidel Princes whiche is not his principall argumente but incidently browght in the pithe of the argumente resting in the authority of S. Paule before specified And therefore thowgh Abgarus with the three Magi that came to honour Christes byrth with the Emperour Philippus and king Lucius were Christened yet is M. FekenhaÌ„s argumente framed vppon the authority of S. Paules words litle acrased or febled vnlesse M. Horn caÌ„ proue which he doth not nor caÌ„ not that these and other ChristiaÌ„ princes before CoÌ„stantine had the supremacy of al causes ecclesiastical For the kind and maner of their gouernment in spirituall matters M. Horne alleageth nothing and to say the truthe nothing can be alleaged And verie litle also wyll be founde for any matter ecclesiasticall that maye seeme to towche theyr personnes And yet that lytle that we fynde in stories maketh altogether aswell againste some other part of M. Hornes new relligion as against this new Supremacie As Christes Image printed in a lynen clothe by Christes owne hande and sent to this Abgarus by the which many yeares afterward the Citie of Edessa was miraculouslie preserued being besieged by Chosroes the king of the Persians Which Image also was afterward brought to Constantinople with much reuerence and honour and thereby many great miracles wrought as the Emperour of Constantinople Constantine doth write who was present when the Image was brought thither That litle also that we haue recorded in stories of the Emperour Philip and his sonne maketh altogether against your new religion and especiallie against your new primacie which is the matter that presentlye we haue to deale withal Shewe your Reader I beseeche you M. Horne what was that wherein by their woorkes and dedes they declared as you say that they had in them the feare of God and the most Christian faith Come on good M. Horne and declare vs this Surely good Reader there was neuer beare that came to the stake with worse will then Maister Horne wil come nigh this point For if he come ones nigh to it he shal forthwith declare him selfe void and empty of the Catholike faith for the denying of the Popes and clergies Supremacie wel to be proued euen by this story and void also of al feare of God for the wretched hewing and mangling of his Authour and for leauing out that for the which they are commended for their faith and fear of God The cause then whie Eusebius and after him Vrspurgensis so writeth is for that this Philip and his sonne being in the Churche vppon Easter eue and minding to be present at the Sacrifice and to communicate Fabian the Pope woulde not suffer them vnlesse they would first confesse theyr faultes and stande amonge the penytentes Wherevnto they obeyed most gladly declaring euen as M. Horne writeth by theyr dedes and workes that they had in them the feare of God and the most perfect Christian faith Where is now in you M. Horne the feare of God Yea where is your ChristiaÌ„ faith Besides confession of sinnes and a place of penitentes this storie hath also a testimonie of the sacrifice of the Churche and of the Popes and Clergies Supreamacie ouer the Prince which you so stoutlie denie making the Prince Supreme in al causes without exception And therefore without all faith and feare of God ye haue stollen away all this and conueied it from the sight of your Reader into your darke Cacus denne The like pageant yea and excedingly much worse plaie you with the storie of our most noble and first Christian King Lucius For here ye doe not onely by a slie sluttish silence dissemble the doings of Pope Eleutherius as ye did before of Pope Fabian but impudentelye auouche that King Lucius did all those things mentioned by Polidore of whiche the Christening of his whole Nation is the chiefe and so consequentlye that he was Christened without any knowledge or consent of Pope Eleutherius Bring foorth M. Horne but one Authour in Greke Latine or English good or badd new or old Catholike or Heretike vnlesse perchaunce you may shew some one of your late brethren that write so and yet after long search I can find none such that writeth as ye write and then am I content though this be of al other a most euident and a notoriouselie to remitte it you at our next reckoning whiche yet for the better keping of your accoÌ„pt I must not now let passe vnscored I neuer before readde it no I neuer readde any chronicler newe or olde vnlesse yt be some of your late bretherne or such Catholikes as write but very coÌ„peÌ„diously and as yt were abridgmeÌ„tes of thinges which doth not expressely write that king Lucius sent to Rome to Pope Eleutherius that he might be by his aduice and authority Christened but the negatiue thereof I neuer as I say read nor shal I trowe fynde any so madde and so maliciouse a writer as ye are to write yt againe I referre you for our owne countremen to Beda Who writeth that king Lucius wrote an epistle to pope Eleutherius that by his commâ—uâ—dement he might be christened I referre you to our Britishe chronicler translated by Geffrie of Monmoth and to one other of our owne contrey that wrote abowt .700 yeares sithens in lyke effect I referre me to HeÌ„ry of HungtingtoÌ„ to William of Malmesbury to Alphredus Beuerlacensis to Iohannes Londonensis to PolychronicoÌ„ to the chronicles of Englande that M. Foxe calleth Caxtons chronicles And to a number of other of our owne coÌ„try which partly I haue sene partly I haue not sene And to come to our owne time to Bale your cheif antiquary and to Grafton writing thus This Lucy sent louing letters to Eleutherius theÌ„ Bishop of Rome desiring him to sende some deuoute and learned man by whose instruction both he and his people might be tawghte the faith and religion of Christ. It were now superfluouse to ouerlade my answere or the Reader with the external and Latin writers as Nauclerus Sabellicus Platina Iohannes Laziardus Abbas Vrspergensis Ado but especially Damasus in vita Eleutherij aÌ„d a nuÌ„ber of the like which agree with our own chronicles Some perchaunce wil thinke that Mayster Horne would neuer be so impudent as to gainsay all theis wryters and chroniclers and that as he fetcheth all his narration towching Lucius owte of Polidorus so he hath at the leaste for this
our true Meschisedech which he offred in his laste Supper whiche is the sacrifice of the masse in the Church Ergo it is vntrue that Christe hath no ministeriall priesthood or Sacrifice in the Churche For as Christ offered in his last supper his owne body so all priests do offer and shall offer for euer the same body in the holy masse And for this cause is Christ called a prieste for euer in the chapter by yowe rehersed and in the psalmes I bringe not M. Horne this argument nor frame yt of my self it is Oecumenius M. Horne an auÌ„cient and a notable GreciaÌ„ that so writeth and therin vttereth not his owne mynde onely but the mind of Chrysostomus aÌ„d other fathers yea and of the whole Greke Church Here perhaps M. Horn wil take some holde and answere that M. Iewel hath answered sufficiently to Oecumenius in his Reply to M. D. Hardinge What kinde of answere it is and howe substantiall it will wel appere when the Reioynder shal come to this Article touching the sacrifice And yet I suppose men that be not to much and to sinistrally wedded to their owne fantasies may see good cause by such other answeres as are made to part of his reply what to iudge of the whole In the meane ceason mark good reader what kind of answere he maketh to rydde him self from this authority of Oecumenius I wil omitte al other aÌ„d touche one poynt onely of his answere whereby thou mayst haue a taste of the whole First then I pray you cal to remembraunce what a scoffing and wondringe he maketh at the name and authority of Leontius alleaged by M. D. Harding with what is this Leontius that wrote this story or who euer hearde of his name before with much other gay glorious rhetorike But who is it M. Iewell but Leontius that ye so hardly reason against for adorate scabelluÌ„ peduÌ„ eius adore ye the footstole of his feat Now how caÌ„ ye make such meâ—uel at him and demauÌ„d wheÌ„ he was aÌ„d what he was seing your self impugne him amoÌ„g other that be alleged in the 2. Nicene CouÌ„cel Namely seing in the very same leaf wherin is conteyned the argument ye do impugne it appereth also what he was and wheÌ„ he was that is such a notable father aÌ„d learned bishop out of your quarrelling exceptioÌ„ of your .600 yeares that he hath escaped and is aboue all your solemne and peremptory challenges Truely good reader this is a straunge metamorphosis and a sodaine rauishmeÌ„t of M. Iewel For as much as he woÌ„dreth at LeoÌ„tius name in his Reply against priuate masse as hardly and as stoutly as he resoneth againste him in his reply against the adoration of Saynts Images yet he is fallen into so great familiarity and lyking with him that in his Reply against the sacrifice to deface Oecumenius he is content to authorise him for a good and a sufficient writer And because Oecumenius telleth vs that Christ is and shall be sacrificed by the priestes and his holy body to the worldes ende shal be offred vp in the holy masse M. Iewel to auoyd this saith what sacrifice or aulter meaneth we being Christian people in a manner can not tell which are the words of the sayd LeoÌ„tius But yet according to M. Iewells old wonte falsly translated and most falsly and impudeÌ„tly applied to that which the authour neuer ment And that this holy handling of the matter may not lightly be espied he alleageth the .2 Nicene councell beinge very long and tediouse and neither leafe nor actioÌ„ of it named neither dareth ons for shame to name Leontius the authour of the sentence Nowe LeoÌ„tius doth not meane of the aultar that Christian men vse to the honour of God or of the sacrifice of Christes blessed body which is the matter that Oecumenius proueth and ought to be disproued by M. Iewel but of the aultars dedicated to the deuills and of the detestable sacrifice that the infidells did make thervppon as ye shal vnderstande by his owne wordes Theis Iewes sayth LeoÌ„tius may be asshamed that worshipping theire owne kinges and the kinges of other people do scorne and skoffe at vs Christians as though we were Idolatours For we in euery city and countrie euery day and houre do stande armed against idolls we sing Psalmes against idoles we make our prayers against them And then howe can they for shame call vs idolatours where are nowe the oxen the sheepe yea theire owne children that the Iewes were wonte to offer in sacrifice to their Idoles Where are the smoking sacrifices where are the aulters and the sheding of bloudde Suerly we Christians can not in a manner tell what is an aulter or what is the sacrifice of beasts for that is properly victima and of that Leontius speaketh Thus writeth this aunciente learned bisshoppe about a thowsand yeares paste againste the Iewes that called Christian men Idolatours for worshippinge of images And the lyke answere we catholyks may make against theis our newe Iewes And so at the length Leontius that M. Iewell hath so wondred at hath confuted with his short answere al his and M. Calfields and such other their blasphemous talk against the catholyks for worshiping of the image of Christ aÌ„d his Sayntes and hath bewrayed M. Iewels abhominable shifte made to answer Oecumenius vnder the visour of this coulorable authority And nowe may al men as much woÌ„der at M. Iewells doinges as he doth at Leontius name And I am deceyued if euer there were any poore owle so gased and wondered at of the byrdes as men wil hereafter wonder at M. Iewel for theis wretched and miserable shifts Thus theÌ„ the argument of Oecumenius M. Horne contrary to your Antichristian blasphemy againste the sacrifice of the masse standeth vntouched and vnblemished for any thiÌ„g that M. Iewel hath or caÌ„ say or any other of al your sect The sacrificing priesthod M. Horn for al your spite shal coÌ„tinewe and shal not vttterly fayle vntil the time of Anticrist TheÌ„ shal it fayl in dede for thre years aÌ„d an half according to the prophecy of Daniel aÌ„d the sayings of the fathers namely of S. Augustin Prosper Primasius S. HieroÌ„ and S. Gregory Wherfor it is not the Pope but your self M. Horn that with this your ful vnchristiaÌ„ doctrin aÌ„d deuelish diuinity in soluting M. Fekenhams argument prepareth a redy way for Antichrist There is nowe an other equiuocatioÌ„ espied by M. Horn in the worde to gouerne and rule and that there are two kindes of sorts to gouerne and to rule the Churche of Cod the one by the supreame authority and power of the sworde beloÌ„ging onely to princes the other by feading the flocke with the word of God by ministring Sacraments and by bynding and losing belonging only to bisshops and Church ministers Which kinde of spirituall gouernment princes may not neither doe claime And therfor M. Horn sayth that M. FekenhaÌ„ did not
disposed he saith this ArgumeÌ„t is much like as if a yong Nouice shuld reason thus NuÌ„nes must kepe sileÌ„ce in the Cloisture therfore the Prioresses haue not the gouernment in NuÌ„nish causes and matters CoÌ„cerning the first part of his answere I say that the argument is good aÌ„d sufficieÌ„t For if teaching preaching and disputing in matters of religioÌ„ be causes and matters ecclesiastical and if womeÌ„ be imbarred froÌ„ this then is there a sufficieÌ„t cause why M. Fekenham may not take this othe that a woman is supreme head in al causes spiritual aÌ„d ecclesiastical Namely to erect and enact a new and proper religioÌ„ throughout her realme by the vertue of her own proper and supreme gouernmeÌ„t For to this end M. Horn is the othe teÌ„dâ—ed It is to euideÌ„t It can not be dissembled Againe the said place of S. Paul is of the order and maÌ„ner of expouÌ„ding of scripture as it appeareth by the text If then S. Paul forbiddeth a woman to expouÌ„d scripture how can a woman take vpon her to be the chief iudge of al those that expouÌ„d the scripture I mean in that very office of expouÌ„ding Scripture in decreeiÌ„g determining and enacting what religion what beliefe what doctrine shal take place And such shee must nedes be if she be a supreme head Suche do you and your fellowes make her Such authority you M. Horn throughout all this boke attribute to your new supreme heads Emperours and KiÌ„gs by you alleaged You make them to preache to teache and to prescribe to the Bishops in their CouÌ„cels what and how they shal do in their ecclesiasticall matters If then by you a supreme Gouerner in ecclesiastical maters must be so qualified as to be present in Councels of Bishops to prescribe rules for the Bishops to follow to determine what they shal do and to coÌ„firme by royal asseÌ„t the decrees of bishops yea and to make them selues decrees and coÌ„stitutions ecclesiastical but a woman by S. Paule may not ones speake in the Church that is in the CoÌ„gregatioÌ„ or assembly of the faithful and by you a womaÌ„ may not preache teach or dispute vndoubtedly both by S. Paul and by your own coÌ„fession a womaÌ„ can not be a supreme Gouernour such as the Othe forceth meÌ„ to swere I say supreme gouernour in al ecclesiastical causes No nor in so many causes by a great deale as you pretend in this your booke other Kings and Princes to haue practised supreme gouernmeÌ„t in CoÌ„sider now M. Horne how it may staÌ„d with S. Paules doctrine that a woman may be a supreme gouerner in al ecclesiastical causes namely such as you in this boke would make your Reader beleue that al Emperours Kings and Princes hitherto haue bene Now put the case as we saw it viij yeres past that in a doubtful matter of doctrine and religion to be tried by scripture the whole number of bishops agree vpoÌ„ some determinate and resolute exposition with their Clergie and would by an Ecclesiastical law of CoÌ„uocation or Councel set forth the same Al their resolutioÌ„ and determination is not worth a rush by your Othe and by your maner of talke in this booke if the Prince doe not allowe and coÌ„firme the same And how this wil staÌ„d with S. Paul in this chapter tel vs I pray you presupposing as the statute requireth that the Princes allowing though she be a woman is necessary And now are ye come to thâ—s point and driueÌ„ therto by the force of this place to say that the place doth not proue but a womaÌ„ may haue some gouernmeÌ„t in ecclesiastical causes As though the QuestioÌ„ were now of some gouernmeÌ„t only and not of Supreme and absolute Gouernment in al maner thinges and causes ecclesiastical If therefore this place do proue that a womaÌ„ hath not the Supreme and absolute gouernement in all causes ecclesiasticall but that in some and them the chiefest she must holde her peace as yt doth euideÌ„tly and ye can not denie yt then is M. Fekenham free froÌ„ taking the othe of the supremacy and then hath S. Paule vtterly confuted that Othe and your whole booke withal This I say also as by the way that yf this chapter must be taken for teaching preaching and disputing as M. Horne saith and truely that M. Iewell went far wide froÌ„ S. Paules meaning when he applied yt to the coÌ„mon seruice of the Church whereof it is no more meaÌ„t theÌ„ of the coÌ„moÌ„ talke in tauernes As for M. Hornes secoÌ„d mery mad obiectioÌ„ no maÌ„ is so mad to make such an argumeÌ„t but hiÌ„self And therfore he may as long and as iolily as he wil triuÌ„ph with him self in his own folly Yet I would wish M. Horne to speake wel of Nunnes were it but for his grandsir Luthers sake and the heaueÌ„ly coniunctioÌ„ of him and a Nonne together Which vnhappy coÌ„iunction of that VulcaÌ„ and Venus engeÌ„dred the vnhappy brood of M. Horn aÌ„d his felowes But that this folish fond argumeÌ„t is nothing like to M. FekenhaÌ„s argumente yt may easely be proceiued by that we haue alredy and sufficiently sayde M. Fekenham The .159 Diuision pag. 98. a. The third chiefe point is that I must not only sweare vpon the Euangelists that no foraine personne state or potentate hath or ought to haue any power or authoritie Ecclesiastical or Spiritual within this Realme but also by vertue of the same Othe I must renounce all forraine power and authorities which for a Christian man to doe is directly against these two Articles of our Crede Credo sanctaÌ„ ecclesiaÌ„ CatholicaÌ„ I do beleue the holy catholik â—hurch Credo SanctoruÌ„ coÌ„munioneÌ„ I do beleue the coÌ„munioÌ„ of saints And that there is a participatioÌ„ and coÌ„munion amongest al the beleuers of Christes Church which of the Apostle Paule are called Saincts Adiuro vos per DominuÌ„ vt legatur haec Epistola omnibus sanctis fratribus And herin I do ioyne this issue with your L. that whaÌ„ your L. shal be able to proue by Scripture Doctor General CouÌ„cell or by the coÌ„tinual practise of any one Church or part of al ChristeÌ„dome that by the first Article I beleue the holy Catholik Church is meant only that there is a Catholike Church of Christ and not so that by the same article euery ChristiaÌ„ man is bound to be subiect and obedient to the Catholike Church like as euery member ought to haue obedieÌ„ce vnto the whole mystical bodie of Christ. And further when you shall be hable to proue by the second Article I dooe beleue the Communion of Saints is not so meante that a Christian man oughte to beleeue such attonement suche a participation and communion to be amongest al beleeuers and members of Christes Catholike Churche in doctrine in faith in Religion and Sacramentes but that it is laufull for vs of this Realme therein to dissent from the Catholike Churche of Christe dispersed in all other Realmes and that by a corporal Othe it is laufull for
this allwaies your Consequent I say vpon one or diuers particulars to conclude affirmatiuely an vniuersal For what one Emperour or Prince amonge so many so longe a succession and in so diuers countres haue you brought forthe by whose example by sufficiente enumeration of all partes ▪ you might logiquely and reasonably cōclude the affirmatiue vniuersal that is the Supreme gouernement in al spiritual or ecclesiastical thinges or causes You haue not M. Horne brought any one suche Shewe but one and I will allowe you in all And come you nowe to charge M. Fekenham with thys foule and euil consequent What Thought you so by preuention to blame M. Fekenhā that you might escape therby the blame your selfe or thought you we shoulde haue forgotten to charge you herewith excepte your selfe by charging an other had put vs in minde thereof Vpon this imagined Conclusion of M. Feckenhams you induce a dilemma that whether the Conclusion folow or not folow yet he shal alwaies remayne in some absurdite But we say that as he neuer made that consequent so also that it foloweth not Then say you If the Conclusion folowe not cōsequētly vpon the Antecedent ▪ than haue ye concluded nothing at al by Christes diuinity that may further the matter ye haue taken in hande to proue To the which I answere That M. Feckenham hereby fully cōcludeth his principall purpose For Commission of Spiritual gouernement being geuen as he reasoneth and you expresly cōfesse to Bishops immediatly from God by Christ him selfe true God not only in some but euen in the principall spirituall causes as to fede the Church with true doctrine to preache the worde to bind and loose to minister the Sacraments it foloweth euidētly that the Prince is not the Supreme Gouernour in al Spiritual causes And that the Acte hath wrongfully geuen to the Prince the ful authorising for al maner of spiritual causes in any wise concerning any Spirituall or Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction to be vsed and exercised by persons when and as often and for such and so long time as it shal please the Prince to authorise them It foloweth I saye that the Acte hath wrongfully geuen al this to the Princes authorising seeing that God him selfe hath already geauen it to the Apostles and their successours Bishops and Priestes in his Churche without any cōmission or authorisatiō for any prince of the earth whatsoeuer God hath your self say M. Horn geuē to the Bisshops sufficiēt cōmission for the discharge of their cures It were therfore you say an horrible absurdity if they might not exercise any iurisdictiō ouer thē by that cōmissiō without a furder cōmission frō the Quenes highnes But bothe by the practise in king Edwardes daies at what time by the Kings letters patēts bishops had a special cōmissiō to minister the Sacraments and to preach the word frō the Prince and at the Princes pleasure as it hath before ben declared ād also by the plaine Act in the Quenes M. daies now reigning bishops can not exercise vse or execute any Spiritual iurisdiction without the Authorising naming and assigning of the Prince yea and that no oftener nor no longer then it shall please the Prince to Authorise them so that beeing a Bishoppe to daye to morowe by the Acte he shall be none if it please the Prince to dissauthorise him or discharge him Ergo by Maister Hornes own confession and plaine constante assertion bothe in King Edwardes dayes and now in the Acte an horrible absurdity is committed You haue saied M. Horne a great deale more against the Acte then euer M. Feckenham saied Beare therefore with him and vs I pray you yf to auoide such an horrible absurdity bothe he and we refuse the Othe of this acte Some reason I perceiue M. Sampson and D. Humfrey of Oxford had when they refused this othe being tendred vnto them by a Commission They saw it was in dede a most horrible absurdity so to weakē Gods authority that it must yet not of congruite but of necessite and by force of lawe be bolstered as of it selfe insufficient with the Princes authorising and letters patents The sawe it was a great impiety that bishops and Pastours by Gods lawe ordayned to suche offices should not oftener exercise their offices nor no lenger remaine in the saied offices then it should please the Prince for the time to Authorise them and allowe them Therefore these men them selues no doubte true subiectes to the Quenes highnes and well willers to her Maiest Person refused yet this Othe as is aboue saied But what a conclusion is this M. Horne how fowle an absurdity is it to take the Othe of supreme gouernemente in al spiritual thinges or causes in which Othe also you say nothing may be excepted for if you except any it is not al these are your owne wordes and yet to make nowe a limitatiō and to except so many and so principall causes ecclesiasticall in the which as you say also the Prince hath no gouernement at all but only the Bishops as hauing sufficient commission herein from God him selfe Whereas if there were in dede any limitation by the Acte expressed or intēded as there is not in dede any at all in the Authorising of mete persons to execute all maner of spirituall Iurisdictions it were yet open and manifest periury to sweare to a supreme gouernement in all causes without exception What yf you and your felowes intende not or meane not al maner spirituall causes Can this excuse them which sweare to all from manifest periury How many haue receyued the Othe which neuer vnderstode worde of any suche limitatiō If you meane in dede a limitatiō M. Horne procure thē that the limitation be put to the Othe expresly that men may sweare to no more then is intended Els if you intangle mens soules in open periury vnder a couert limitation assure your selfe you and al other the procurers hereof shal answer full derely to God for all the soules that hereby haue perished And assure your self that as the holy ghost infallibly threatneth he wil come as a quicke witnesse against al periured and forsworen persons Neither yet doth the limitatiō excuse thē frō periury which sweare Princes to be supreme gouernors in some spirituall causes who are in dede no gouernours at al in such causes nor euer had by the lawe of God any spiritual charge or Iurisdictiō cōmitted vnto them But yet if this limitation were annexed the periury were the lesse and the dealing were more playne though not therfore good In the meane while you which force men to sweare to al ecclesiastical causes and yet will except so many ecclesiastical causes how vnreasonably ād how absurdely do you write But of these your contradictory assertions I haue before spoken If I should here aske M. Horne ▪ what Authorite the parliament had to geue to the Prince all or any Iurisdiction at all in matters mere spiritual that parliament especially consisting only
appeareth also most euidently in Eusebius writing of this Constantine in this sort Quae ab Episcopis in publicis conuentibus editae erant regulae sua consignabat confirmabat authoritate He signed and confirmed with his Authoritie suche Canons or rules as the Bisshoppes in their assemblies had decreed But how As though without his royall assente the Canons shoulde haue beene voide and of no Authoritie as you woulde make folke beleue No but as the same Eusebius writeth in the same place Ne reliquarum gentiuÌ„ principibus liceret quae ab eis decreta essent abrogate to the intent that it should not be lawful for Princes of other Nations to abrogate or refuse the Bishops Decrees And the reason he addeth immediatly Cuiusuis enim Iudicis sententiae SacerdotuÌ„ Dei IudiciuÌ„ anteponenduÌ„ esse For the Emperour estemed that the iudgemeÌ„t and determination of the Priests of God was to be preferred before the Sentence of any other what so euer Iudge This man therefore M. Horn to tel you it ones again can be no fitte exaÌ„ple of the like gouernment now by you mainteined in the Quenes highnes person and al other the inheritours of the Realme of England Now as Constantine did set the Clergie at their liberty whether they would answere in any secular court So the noble Emperour Theodosius set as wel al the Laitie as the Clergie at the like libertie and ordeined that the plaintife in any cause any time before the sentence might breake of from his ordinary Iudge and bring the matter whether the defendaÌ„t would or no to the Episcopal audience The which ordinaunce the Great Charles aboute .400 yeares after renewed to be inuiolably obserued of all his subiectes as wel the Romaines and the Frenchemen as the Almanes the Bauarians the Saxons the TuringiaÌ„s the Frisons the Galles the Britanes the Lombards the Gascons the Beneuentanes the Gothes and the Spaniards As ye do with Constantinus Magnus so doe ye with Theodosius Magnus and with Carolus Magnus constitutions bringing them forth out of your blind Cacus denne to dasel and bleare the Readers withal as though the Bishops helde their ordinarie iurisdiction Ecclesiasticall by these decrees onely which do nothing thervnto appertaine but shew a marueilouse priuilege geuen to them to heare and determine also all teÌ„porall matters brought before theÌ„ And if these graunts wer afterward abrogated yet was that no abrogatioÌ„ to the iurisdictioÌ„ that is proprely the ecclesiastical iurisdictioÌ„ and your author doth not say that such grauÌ„ts were afterwards abrogated but doth reason against them that saide they were abrogated Neither is his booke entituled De origine iurisdictionuÌ„ but de iurisdictione Ecclesiastica And was this Petrus Bertrandus then as you say a Bisshop a Cardinal and one of our best learned men in the Canon and Ciuil Lawes Suerly then may your Petrus Cugneâ—ius thoughe ye auaÌ„ce him as a worthy knight go hide his head in a corner For againste him and his folishe fonde arguing againste the ecclesiastical liberty is all his booke writen as I haue before declared Wherfore all this your tale that the bishops held their iurisdiction ouer theire clergy by Constantine his ghifte is as true as your other adiuncte that he gaue the Bishops of Rome power and authority ouer other Bishoppes and ouer al churches He might well as he did in dede reuerently agnise and by his Imperial authoritie confirme and corroborate the vsual authoritie of the Popes holines but that the original of this authority as ye imagine came froÌ„ him ys a great vntruth For euen before his time and after not onely the Christians but the verie infidelles suche as were acquainted with the maners and fashions of the Christians did wel knowe that the Bishop of Rome was counted the cheif bishop amonge them al. And for this cause Ammianus Marcellinê° an heathnish cronicler writeth that though Athanasius the good bishop were by a councell of Arrian bishoppes condemned yet that notwithstanding ConstaÌ„tius sonne to this Constantinus and an Arrian and his plain open enemie was ernestlie in hande with Pope Liberius also to confirme their sentence and was by him banished because he would not condescende to theÌ„perours request Againe before the time of this Constantinus Paulus Samosatenus bishop of Antiochia being depriued by a councell of bishoppes and an other appointed by the sayde councel in his stede kepte stil possession nothing regarding either the sentence of depriuation or of excommunication The Emperour Aurelianus being certified of this matter gaue commaundement that he whome so euer the bishoppe of Rome with the bishops of Italie should acknowledge for the bishop of Antiochia should be taken and accepted for the true bishop And so was Paulus by this Emperours coÌ„maundement though he were a very infidell thruste out and an other set in What proufe haue ye now M. Horne that the Pope hath his authoritie from Constantine Surely Gentle Reader none other but the Donation of Constantine whiche he him selfe doth not beleeue to be true and therefore dothe qualifie it with these woordes if it be not forged Whiche being so why doeth your wisedome then M. Horne alleage it Neither wil I here though Leo the 9. doth constantly testifie that he sawe and had him selfe the originall of this donation laide by ConstaÌ„tinus owne hand vpon the bodie of S. Peter though Eugubinus answereth to all Laurence Valla his obiections againste this donation yea though Balsamon a Grecian and an open ennemie to the Pope alleageth this Donation as authentical I wil not yet I say resolue any thing for the one or the other side I will take it as I find it and take you withall as I find you and that is a plaine open lyar For howsoeuer the Donation be the Pope toke not his Supremacy of this Donation but had it before of an higher Emperour and that is of Christe him selfe Whiche the foresaid donatioÌ„ doth also openly testify but not in the .86 as ye falsly quote it but in the .96 distinctioÌ„ M. Fekenham The .166 Diuision Pag. 111. a. At the first Councel holden at Hierusalem for the reformation of the controuersy that was than at Antioche touching Circumcision and the obseruation of Moses Lawe decree was made there by the Apostles and Priestes vnto the beleuers at Antioche that they should absteine from these fowre chiefe and necessary thinges viz. ab immolatis simulachrorum à sanguine suffocato à fornicatione à quib custodieÌ„tes vos bene agetis The whiche first councell was there assembled by the Apostles of Christ. The Decrees and Lawes were made there by theÌ„ The coÌ„trouersy at Antioche was by them reformed ordered and corrected without all commission of any temporal Magistrate King or Prince M. Horne God be thanked that S. Luke maketh to vs a sufficient report of this councell vvho maketh no mention of any .598 Priest there present as you vntruely report onles
imperij but did openly reproue the King for his wicked and vniust rule or cōmaundement vvherby is manifest that Athanasius speaketh .657 not against the Princes authority in Ecclesiastical matters but against his tiranny and the abusing of that authority vvhich God hath geuē him vvhervvith to mynister vnto Gods vvil and not to rule after his ovvne luste they commende the authority but they reproue the disorderly abuse thereof Novv let vs see hovv this saying of Athanasius helpeth your cause Constantius the Emperour dealt vnorderly and after his ovvne lust against Athanasius and others pretending neuerthelesse the iudgement of Bisshops vvhich Athanasius misliketh as is plaine in this place auouched Ergo Bisshoppes and Priestes may make lavves decrees orders and exercise the second kind of Cohibitiue Iurisdiction ouer their flockes and cures vvithout commission from the Prince or other authority I doubt not but yee see such faulte in this sequele that yee .658 are or at least ye ought to be ashamed therof The .12 Chap. Conteyning a Confutation of M. Hornes answer made to the woordes of Athanasius Stapleton HEre is nowe one other allegation by M. Fekenham proposed out of Athanasius Hosius the Bisshop of Corduba saith M. Fekenham who was present at the first Nicene Councel hath these wordes as Athanasius writing against the Emperour Constantius doth testifie Yf this be a iudgement of Bisshops what hath the Emperour to do there with But one the contrary parte yf these thinges be wrought by the threates and menaces of Emperour what neade is there of anye men besides to beare the Bare Title of Bisshoppes When from the beginning of the worlde hath it bene heard of that the iudgement of the Churche toke his authority of the Emperour Or when hath this at any tyme bene agnised for a iudgement Many synodes haue ben before this tyme many Councels hath the Church holden but the tyme is yet to come that either the fathers went about to persuade the Prince any such matter or the Prince shewed him selfe to be curiouse in matters of the Churche But nowe we haue a spectacle neuer sene before browght in by Arrius heresye The heretikes and the Emperour Constantius are assembled that he may vnder the colour and title of Bisshops vse his power against whome it pleaseth him M. Horne to this allegation aunswereth that M. Fekenham doth Athanasius threfolde wronge c. To the first wronge I replie that putting the case that these are not Hosius his words but Athanasius M. Fekenhams matter is nothing thereby hindered but rather furthered considering the excellent authority that Athanasius hath and euer had in the Churche And Hosius hath euen in the said epistle of Athanasius and but one leaf before a much like sentence proceding of a couragious and a godly boldenes Medle not you Syr Emperour saieth he to the forsayed Constantius with matters Ecclesiastical neither cōmaund vs in this parte but rather learne these thinges of vs. God hath committed to you the Empire and to vs those things that appertaine to the Churche And therefore euen as he that maligneth and spiteth your Empire doeth contrarie Gods ordinance so take ye head least ye in medling with matters of the Church doe not runne into some greate offence Whereas for the second wrong done to Athanasius you say that M. Fekenham hath lefte one material word out of Athanasius ye haue turned that worde to one halfe hundred wordes with a nedelesse declaration the space of one whole leafe at the least And yet you neuer come nigh the matter Beside such is your wisedome ye alleage in this your extraordinarie glose an epistle of S. Ambrose which doth so cōfirme M. Fekenhams present allegation and is so agreable to Athanasius ād so disagreable to the cheife principle of al this your boke that I maruel that euer ye would ones name it vnlesse ye neuer read it your self but trusted the collector of your cōmon places For the law of Valentinian whereof we spake before is in that epistle to the yong Valentian Whē euer heard you sayth he that in a cause of faith lay mē gaue iudgment vpon a Bishoppe If we will peruse and ouerloke either the order of holie write or the Auncient tyme who is there that will denie that in matter of Faythe I saie saieth S. Ambrose in matter of faieth but that the Bishoppes are wonte to iudge vppon the Emperours and not the Emperours vppon the Bishoppes He saith againe afterward If there be any conference to be had touching the faith it must be had emong the Priestes And how this doctrine of S. Ambrose which is the doctrine of the catholike Church and most conformable to the saying of Athanasius agreeth either with your late acte of parliament wherby the catholik bishops were deposed or with the doctrine of your boke euery man may see Yea S. Ambrose saieth yet farder that the Emperour Valētiniā whose sonne being enduced thereto by the Arrian bishop Auxētius woulde nedes call the bishop before his benche and Iudge ouer him made an expresse lawe that In matter of faithe or of any ecclesiastical order he should iudge that were neither by office vnequal neither by right vnlike That is as S. Ambrose him selfe expoundeth it Sacerdotes de Sacerdotibus voluit iudicare He woulde haue Priestes to iudge ouer Priestes And not only in matters ecclesiastical or of faithe but saieth S. Ambrose Si aliâs argueretur Episcopus morū esset examinanda causa etiā hanc voluit ad Episcopale iudiciū pertinere If otherwise also a Bishop were accused and a question touching maners were to be examined this question also that Emperour woulde haue to belonge to the trial and Iudgement of Bishops Here you haue that yt belongeth not to Princes to be iudges vppon priests either in matters of faith either in matters touching liuing and māners which doth vtterly destroy al your new primacy and your late acte of Parliament deposing the right Bishoppes as I haue saide And we are wel contente that councelles shoulde be free from al feare and that Princes shoulde not appointe or prescribe to Bishops howe they should iudge as ye declare owt of Athanasius and S. Ambrose Let this be as muche material as ye wil to a bishoply iudgmēte But I pray you is there nothing else that Athanasius saieth is material to the same Yes truely One of these materiall thinges was that this Councel was made voyde and annichilated for that Iulius the Pope did not consent to yt as the canons of the Churche require which commaunde that neither councel be kepte nor Bishoppes condemned withowte the Authoritie of the Bishoppe of Rome And therefore Iulius did rebuke the Arrians that they did not first of all require his aduice which they knewe was the Custome they shoulde and take their definitiō from Rome This Pope also did restore Athanasius againe to his Bishopprike as your
vntruthe for by â—ou they may take al vpoÌ„ them ergo this also The .535 vntruthe mere slauÌ„derous Concerning this vvorde Priest Exod. 28. Ioelis 1. Vlulate Ministri altaris Hiere 33. Sacerdotes Ministri mei Heb. 10. Act. 13. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Augu lib. 20. de Ciuitate Dei cap. 10. Hebr. 7. Oecumenius sentence of the sayd sacrifice Sacerdos in aeternuÌ„ Psal. 19. Tu es sacerdos in aeternuÌ„ secunduÌ„ ordineÌ„ Melchisedech Consider M. Ievvels ansvvere to the sayed Oecumenius M. Ievvels hypocritall dissimulation In his reply fo 75. Ievvell fol. 503. Vid. 2. CoÌ„c Nicenum actio 4. Non. 1. vt in Ievvell pag. 517. Fol. 580. Nos Christiani propemodum quid sit ara quid sit victima nescimus Nicenae 2. synodi Act. 4. fol. 517. col 2. Pudore sufsundantur Iudaei qui proprios reges et alienos adoraÌ„tes nos Christianos taÌ„quam idololatras irrident Nos auÌ„t Christiani oiÌ„bus in ciuitatib regionib indies et in horas singulas coÌ„tra idola stamus armati coÌ„tra idola psallimê° coÌ„tra idola preces fundimê° Et qua taÌ„dem fronte Iudaei nos vocant idololatras Vbi nunc sunt quae olim ab istis oblatae sunt idolis bouÌ„ ouiuÌ„ filiorum quoque victimae vbi sacrificioruÌ„ fumi vbi arae et perfusioÌ„es sanguinuÌ„ Nos verò Christiani propemodum quid sit ara quid sit victima ignoramus M. Horn. denying the sacrifice maketh a playne vvay for Antichriste Daniel 12. Quum ablatum fuerit iuge sacrificium Aug. de ciuit Dei lib. 20. ca. 23. 29. Prosper de diuinis pro niss praedict dimid temp cap. 13. Hier. in dict cap. 12. Primas in apoc li. 3. cap. 11. Greg. l 32. in Iob. 14. An ansvvere to M. Horne for M. FekeÌ„haÌ„s traÌ„slating of the vvord 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Pascere vel regere 2. Reg. 5. Tâ— pasces â—opulum meuÌ„ Israel iueris dux super Israeel Cui praecept vt pasceret populum meuÌ„ ca. 7. Psalm 77 pauit eos in innoceÌ„tia cordis sui So dothe also the Englishe traÌ„slation of the nevv testament pâ—iÌ„ted at zuricâ—â—n .1550 In his Replie pag. 239. The shepherdes office resembleth most properly the Bishopes Office Genes 31. Chrysostoms saiyngs touching the spirituall gouernement Lib. 3. de dignitate Sacâ—rdotij IbideÌ„ li. 6. Porrò illuÌ„ ipsuÌ„ oportet tantò oiÌ„bs rebus illis pÌ„stare ê“ quib intercedit quaÌ„tò pareÌ„ vt subditos praefectus excellat CuÌ„ auÌ„t ille spiritum SanctuÌ„ inuocauerit sacrificiuÌ„que illud horrore ac reuereÌ„tia plenissimuÌ„ perfecerit coÌ„muni omniuÌ„ manibus assidue pertractato quaero ex te cat Locus altari vicinus in illius honoreÌ„ ê— imolatur angeloruÌ„ choris plenus est Id quod credere abuÌ„de licet vel ex tanto illo sacrificio quod tuÌ„ peragitur Iliad â— The Princes supremacy ouâ—rthrowen by that that M. Horne him selfe grauÌ„teth De correptione gratia c. 3 De fide operibus Cap. 2. Cùm in Ecclesiae disciplina visibilis fuerat gladius cessaturus De correp gratia Cap. 15. Conâ—ra â—duersur legis prophetarum lib. 1. Cap. 17. Luc. 12. Math. 10. c. 28 Augustin vt suprà De fide operibus Cap. 2. Act. 20. De ciuit Dei li. 20. cap. 10. See the force of truthe Heb. 13. The .536 vntruth As before in the 531 532. and 533. vntruthes The 537. vntruth Your assertion is thereby vtterly iÌ„proued and ouerthrowen for then the priÌ„ce is not supreame gouernor in all causes M. FeckeÌ„hams .2 reason Hebre. 13. In Comm. Ibidem 1. Reg. 2. Vide Dionysium 1. reg 2. Augustin epist. 50. 1. Cor. 4. 5. Epiphan haeres 42. li. 1. tom 3 Augustin de verbis Dom. sec. IoaÌ„ serm 34. Ezech. 34. In lib. de pastoribus Cap. 10.11 13. 1. Cor. 14. Gen. 3. The .538 vntruthe M Feckenham reasoneth not so But thus Therefore vvomen can not take vppon them the Supreame gouernement in all causes c. The .539 vntruthe The argument is nothing like The .540 vntruthe This argument is made vvith good and greate consideration as shall appeare M. FeckeÌ„hams 3. reason 1. Cor. 14. The .541 vntruth It conteineth an argumeÌ„t that M Horne shal neuer assoyle The 542. vntruth Slaunderous and iniurious The .543 vntruth For they are 2. diuers articles not one ClemeÌ„s in compend de fide The .544 vntruth The coÌ„moÌ„ opinioÌ„ of lerned meÌ„ rekoneth more theÌ„ 12. Articles The .545 vntruth As before The .546 vntruth They are plaine coÌ„tradictory one to an other as shal appeare The .547 vntruth ioyned vvith impiety The catholike Churche that you by othe renouÌ„ce is the Church of Christe not of antichrist The definition of the catholique Churche* vnperfect as shall appeare The .548 vntruth You haue no agreâ—ment consent or vnite of doctrine amoÌ„ge your selues The .549 vntruth mere slanderous The 550. vntruth M. FekeÌ„haÌ„ saied not so of the Realme The 551. vntruth It is right true that in effect you do so as it shall appeare The .552 vntruth For M. Fekenham saied not that it is so but that by Othe you make it so vvhich is true as it shal be proued The .553 vntruth Notorious The Othe speaketh of Euery foraine Prelate not of a foraine prelat You are novv ashamed your selfe of the Othe M. Horne The 3. chief pointe In hoc coÌ„muniter coÌ„cordant Theologi canonistae Gull Linvvood in coÌ„stit prouinc de summae trinit ca. 1. §. item alij D. Thom. 2.2 q. 1. Arti 8. Host. Io. And. in rub de sum trinitate Ruffinus iÌ„ symbolo M. Horne depraueth M. FekenhaÌ„s argumeÌ„t The othe coÌ„trarye to an Article of our crede An other contradiction betvveÌ„ the Othe and an article of our Creede VVat it is to renouÌ„ce the authorite of euery forrayn prelate Confes. lib. 3. Cap. 8. Epist. 118. ad Ianua Beda lib. 1. cap. 17. Bed lib. 2. cap. 4. Idem lib. eodem ca. 19. Epist. 48. ad Vincentium CoÌ„t Dona. post collationeÌ„ ca. 4 Lib. de vnitat Ecclesiae c. 4. Act. 4. pag. 304. 306. To. 2. Concil M FekenhaÌ„ clered A foule shift vsed by M. Horne M. Horns definitioÌ„ of the Churche M. Horns Church coÌ„pared to the schismatical temple of Samaria Iosephus de bello In daico li. 7. ca. 30. de Antiq. lib. 11. ca. vltimo Ioan. 4. Deut. 12. 2. paral 7. Iosephus antiq l. 11. cap. vlt. Lib. 12. ca. 1. Ant. IdeÌ„ lib. 13. ca. 6. Ant. Nevves out of FlauÌ„dreâ— for M. Horn and his brethern Vide FranciscuÌ„ PhilippuÌ„ Surium Galat. 1. In CoÌ„fut Ministrorum Antvverp fol. 92. 93 Vide Tiletani praesat ad SenatuÌ„ Antvverp 1. Cor. 14. The .554 vntruth It is not lauful for any PriÌ„ce to take it The .555 vntruth Horible and Protestante lyke The .556 vntruth Extreme slaunderous as al the world knoweth yea M. Horne him self The .557 vntruth The companie of catholykes is