Donatisme pag. 622 The Replyer put to the proofe of his ceremonies 614 The Replier tripped in his own net pag. 693 T. C. teacheth S. Augustine to speak pag. 609 The marke that the Replyer shoteth at 56 The drift of the Replier 315 T. C. forsaketh the Apostolical form in Election 193. 195 ¶ Telesphorus a good Bishop 6 2 ¶ Theodoret had gouernement of 800. churches 415. 472 Theodoret of Chrysostome 412 ¶ Thracia annexed to the Archbisshoprike of Constantinople 413 ¶ Of these wordes Take thou eate thou 600 ¶ Diuersitie of Tymes require a diuerse gouernement c. 174. c. ¶ Timothies authoritie 401 Timothie Bishop of Ephesus 404 c. 470. Timothie oft absent from Ephesus pag. 236 The iurisdiction that Timothie vsed in some respect ciuill 769 ¶ Titus Archbishop of Creta 325. 400. 431. 470. ¶ Titles of dignitie in ministers not Antichristian 353 Honorable Titles of Bishops 448 Men called by vndeserued Titles 70 71. Titles in the church vnder the lawe whereof God is not the expresse author 304 ¶ The othe of the fellowes of Trinitie Colledge in Cambridge 1. 235. Trinitie Colledge and the fellowes deliuered frō the slaunderous Replye 745 ¶ The maintenance of Truth as necessarie as the suppression of errours 496 ¶ It is not better to frame our ceremonies to Turkes than to papists pag. 471 V. ¶ Vanitie 351 ¶ Omne verum à spiritu Sancto est pag. 551. 552 ¶ Vicars or substitutes 681 ¶ Victor a good Bishop 510 ¶ Vix what it importeth 796 ¶ Vniuersitie landes stand on the same pinne with Bishops 452. ¶ Vse of things wickedly inuented pag. 273. c. Priuate vse of Idolatrous things forbidden 272 Common vse of Idolatrous things page 273 The vse and abuse of things indifferent 276 ¶ Vsurpe both in Ministring and preaching offend God 520 W ¶ VVa er cakes 596 ¶ VVatchmen and Sheapheards 220 237. ¶ The weake not offended with apparell 〈◊〉 In what sort of indifferent thinges we ought to respect the weake 258. ¶ VVhoremongers in the visible Church 1 ¶ VVickednesse of men causeth not lawes to be euill 1 4 ¶ VVidowes 6 ¶ VVine and Bread consecrated too Idols 275. 276 ¶ Froward wittes 481 ¶ VVhen a woman maye preach Christ. 50 The cause of the VVomans absence from the Church after her deliuerance 53 The VVomans vayle 53 ¶ Strife about wordes proper to q rell rs 5 ¶ VVhat it is to adde and to take away from the VVord 1 Difference betwixt the worshipping of the true God falsly and 〈◊〉 Gods 27 ¶ Mens writings read in the chur pag. 7 The occasion and circumstances of mens writings must bee considered 114. 292 Z ¶ Zuinfildians condemne reading pag. 252. 569. 71 ¶ The Zeale of the Replier 36 Preposterous Zeale 48 The Printer to the Readers I could not be but that in so great a volume some things should escape euen those that are diligent and carefull I especially considering the speedie dispatch and other circumstances notwithstanding if before you enter to reade this booke you will take the paynes to mende these faulces with your pen the rest being lighter will not greately stay your course in reading or otherwise alter the sense and meaning Fare you well Pag. 2. line 8. reade plainly Pag. 21. line 22. for priuately reade priu ly Pag. 50. line vlti for I speake not of their opinions reade I speake not of all their opinions Pag. 62. line 38 reade in these Pag. 67. line 37. for or reade for Pag. 78. line 34. reade and seeking helpe of the Egyptians Pag. 104. lin 22. for abiunde reade aliunde Pag. 124. line 45. reade Is homo Pag. 191. line 45. for worde reade wordes Pag. 244. line 13. reade in the euill day Pag. 252. lin 46. for any confession reade my confession pag. 253 lin 7. reade Chap. 1. pag. 254. line 13. reade chap. 1. and line 48. reade Chap. 2. pag. 304. in y ◠margēt reade wherof God pag. 349. line 29. for and reade as pag. 448. line 32. reade 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 pag. 468. lin 46. for his own reade this one pa. 481. lin 32. for more reade moue pag. 508. lin 1. reade encomber the Answerer pag. 523. lin 25. reade conuentur pag. 536. line 20. for yll read it pag. 537. lin 42. for those read this pag. 541. line 21. for constraine read restreyne pag. 661. line 20. read thus election of ministers is no correctiō of vice neither yet is the deciding c. pag. 663. line 53. for there reade therefore pag. 665. in the margent for eternal reade externall pag 685. lin 6. reade the. 11. diuision pag. 708. line vit for rather reade either pag. 722. line vlt. adde this heaping vp of scriptures shewe me one place in this epistle yea in pag. 731. line 41. for seruice reade sorow pag. 803. lin 7. reade Gods worde pag. 806. line 4. reade of defiance salued pag. 810. line 41. reade fi ¶ To the Churche of Englande and all those that loue the truth in it T. C. vvisheth mercie and peace from God our Father and from our Lorde Iesus Christe AS our men doe more willingly go to warfare and fighte with greater courage agaynst straungers than agaynst their Countreymen so it is with me in this spirituall warfare For I woulde haue wished that this controuersie had beene with the Papistes or with ether if any can be more pestilent and professed e mes of the Churche for that should haue beene lesse griefe to write and more conuenient to perswade that which I desire For as the very name of an enimie dothe kindle the desire of fighting and styrreth vp the care of prepa ng the furniture for the warre So I can not tell howe it commeth to passe that the name of a brother aketh that courage and abateth that carefulnesse whiche sheuld be bestowed in defence of the truthe But seeing the truthe ought not to be forsaken for any mans cause ▪ I enforced my selfe considering that if the Lorde mighte lay to my charge that I was not for certayne considerations so readie as I ought to haue beene to publishe the truthe he mighte more iustly condemne me if beeing oppugned and slaundered by others I shoulde not according to that measure which he hath dealte vnto me and for my small habilitie defende it and delyuer it from the euill reporte that some endeuour to bring vpon it An Answere to the Epistle dedicated by T. C. to the Churche of Englande c. IT doth not appeare by the style and maner of writing vsed in this your booke that there remayneth any portion of suche naturall affection or brotherly loue in you as you would beare the world in hand and séeme to haue by these your wordes For if you should haue written against the veriest Papist in the world the vilest person the ignorantest dolt you could not haue vsed a more spitefull and malicious more slaunderous and reprochfull more contemptuous and disdaynfull kinde of
continuallye to be taught that hée shoulde at all tymes remember his dutie so is it verye necessarye to haue certayne feastes wherein by the readyng and hearyng of the Scriptures men maye be particularlye styrred to the remembraunce and depe consyderation of the principall partes of our Religion and the good and godlye examples of the Sainctes of God in doing their dutie therein Chap. 1. the. 4. Diuision T. C. Pag. 120. Lin. 18. But besydes the incommodities that vyse of makyng such holydayes and continuyng of those which are so horribly abused where it is confessed that they are not necessary besydes this I saye the matter is not so indifferent as it is made I confesse that it is in the power of the Churche to appoynt so many dayes in the weeke or in the yeare in the whiche the congregation shall assemble to heare the worde of God and receyue the Sacramentes and offer vp prayers vnto God as it shall thynke good accordyng to those rules whiche are before alleadged But that it hath power to make so manye holydayes as we haue wherein no man maye worke any parte of the daye and wherein men are commaunded to cease from theyr daylye vocations of Plowyng and exercisyng theyr handye craftes c. that I denye to be in the power of the churche For proofe whereof I wyll take the fourth commaundement and no other interpretation of it than M. Doctor alloweth of in the. 174. page whiche is that God lycenseth and leaueth it at the libertie of euery man to worke sixe dayes in the weeke so that he rest the seuenth day Seeing that therfore that the Lord hathe lefte it to all men at libertie that they might labour if they thinke good sixe dayes I say the Churche nor (*) You drawe from the Magistrate his law authoritie and giue to the people too muche carnall libertie no man can take away this libertie from them and driue them to a necessarie rest of the body Io. Whitgifte The same God that gaue that libertie in that commaundement did appoynt other solemne feast dayes besides the Sabboth as the feast of Easter of Pentecoste of Tabernacles c. withoute any restraynte of this libertie Therefore the interpretation giuen by me page 174. of that place dothe not leaue it to euery priuate mans frée libertie agaynst the authoritie of the Magistrate or of the Churche but it giueth libertie rather to suche as be in authoritie and to the Churche to appoynt therin what shall be conuenient The Magistrate hathe power and authoritie ouer his subiectes in all externall The Magistrate hathe authoritie to abridge externall libertie What libertie can not be taken away matters and bodily affayres Wherefore he maye call them from bodily labour or compell them vnto it as shall be thought to him moste conuenient The libertie that God giueth to man whyche no man oughte to take from hym nor can if he woulde is libertie of conscience and not of worldly affayres In bodily businesse he is to be gouerned by Magistrates and lawes This doctrine of yours is very licentious and tendeth too muche to carnall and corporall libertie and in déede is a very perillous doctrine for all states Not one title in Gods worde dothe constrayne eyther the Magistrate or the Churche from turning carnall libertie to the spiritual seruice of God or bodily labour to diuine worship as those doe that cause men to abstayne from corporall labour that they maye heare the worde of God and worship him in the congregation And whye maye not the Churche as well restrayne them from working anye parte of the daye as it maye doe the moste parte of it for you confesse that it is in the power of the Churche to appoynte so many dayes in the weeke or in the yeare in the whiche the congregation shoulde assemble to heare the worde of God and receyue the Sacramentes and offer vp prayers vnto God as it shall thinke good according to those rules whiche are before alleaged and this it can not doe vnlesse in the same dayes during all that tyme whiche is no small portion of the daye it restrayne them from bodily laboure Wherefore this béeing no commaundement that they shall labour sixe dayes in the wéeke but a signification that so many dayes they maye labour as the same God that gaue this commaundement hathe done before in the olde lawe so maye the Churches likewyse for the encrease of godlinesse and vertue and edification appoynt some of those sixe dayes to be bestowed in prayers hearing the worde administration of the sacraments and other holy actions Chap. 1. the. 5. Diuision T. C. Pag. 120. about the middest And if it be lawfull to abridge the libertie of the Churche in this poynte and in steade that the Lorde saythe Sixe dayes thou mayest labour if thou wilte to saye Thou shalte not labour sixe dayes I doe not see why the Churche maye not as well where as the Lorde saythe thou shalt rest the seuenth daye commaunde that thou shalte not rest the seuenth day for if the Church maye restrayne the libertie that God hathe giuen them it maye take away the yoke also that God hathe put vpon them Io. Whitgifte The Churche is not abridged of hir libertie in thys poynte but vseth hir libertie in appoynting some of these dayes to the worshipping of GOD and the instruction of his people whiche shoulde not be counted a bondage or seruitude to any man To rest the seuenth daye is commaunded to labour sixe dayes is but permitted he that for biddeth rest on the seuenth daye dothe directly agaynst the cōmaundement so dothe not he that restrayneth men from bodily labour in any of the sixe dayes and therefore the reason is not lyke And yet the commaundement of bodily rest vpon the seuenth day in sundrie cases maye of a mans selfe muche more at a lawfull commaundement of a Magistrate in necessitie be broken In thinges indifferent priuate mens willes are subiect to suche as haue authoritie ouer them therefore they ought to consent to their determination in such matters except they will shewe them selues to be wilfull whiche is a great faulte and deserueth muche punishment But hitherto you haue not replied to any Answere made to the Admonition Chap. 1. the. 6. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 173. in the latter ende This is no restraynt for any man from seruing of God any daye in the weeke else For the Iewes had diuers other feastes whiche they by Gods appoyntment obserued notwithstāding these words Sixe dayes c. T. C. Pag. 120. Sect. 1. And where as you say in the. 173. page that notwithstanding this fourth commaundement the Iewes had certayne other feasts whych they obserued In deede the Lorde which gaue this generall lawe mighte make as many exceptions as he thoughte good and so long as he thought good but it followeth not bycause the Lorde dyd it that therefore the Churche may doe it vnlesse it hath commaundement and authoritie
149. Sect. 1. And what reason can you giue why you should not aswell all owe Scilicet the Communion booke of it by subscription as you say that you haue hitherto done by vsing of it in your ministerie Will you speake one thing and doe an other Will you not subscribe to that whiche you publikely vse and giue your consent vnto T. C. Pag. 157. Sect. 1. The Admonition hath no such thing as M. Doctor chargeth the authors therof with that they dyd euer allow of the booke of seruice It sayth they bare with it and vsed it so farre as they might and therfore nowe when it came to the approuing of it by subscription they refused and there is no man which can not vnderstande that it is one thing to beate with a thing and an other to approue it and therfore to beare and to vse it so farre as might be may well agree with their refusall of subscription so that M. Doctors note is not worth the noting The Apostles did beare with the infirmitie of the Iewes addicted to the obseruation of the ceremoniall lawe yet they neuer allowed that infirmitie and they were so farre from approuing it by subscribing that they wrote agaynst it Io. Whitgifte They say they haue not only borne with it but vsed it also in their ministerie c. he that vseth a thing doth as much allowe of it by vsing as he could doe by subscribing But I will not contende with you about a matter of so small weight for neyther is their learning discretion or iudgement suche that the booke is better or worse for their allowing or disallowing of it They shew their natures bent to contention and vnreuerent estimation of the scriptures by abusing of them and that is all that can be gathered out of their booke The Apostles refused not to subscribe vnto such things as they permitted vnto the Iewes for a time neyther did they beare with any thing for their infirmitie agaynst the which they wrote If they haue done any such thing note the place Chap. 1. the. 2. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 149. Sect. 1. If those persons by whome this booke was first authorised were studious of peace and of buylding vp of Christes Church as you say they were then you that seeke to deface it are disturbers of peace and destroyers of the Churche of Christ. They were singular learned men zelous in Gods religion blamelesse in life and Martyrs at their end for eyther al or the most part of them haue sealed this booke with their bloud But by the A note by the waye way this is to be noted that you confesse your selues to haue allowed that by vsing of it which you say is agaynst the worde of God T. C. Pag. 157. Sect. 1. Those sayth M. Doctor which authorised this booke were studious of peace and of buylding of Christes Church therfore they that speake agaynst it which he calleth defacing are disturbers of the peace and destroyers of the Church So I will reason (*) Vnequal com parisons For in these poyntes they were not buylders vp of Christes church Gedeon was studious of peace and of building of the Church therefore they whyche spake agaynst the Ephod whyche he made were disturbers of the peace and destroyers of the church We speake agaynst Images in churches and consubstantiation in the sacraments such lyke which Luther beeing studious of peace and of the building of the church did holde and yet we are not therfore disturbers of peace or destroyers of the church Although they were excellent personages yet their knowledge was in part and although they brought many things to our light yet they beeing sent out in y e morning or euer the sunne of the Gospell was risen so hygh might ouersee many things which those that are not so sharpe of sight as they were may see for bicause that which they want in the sharpnesse of sight they haue by the benefite and clearnesse of the sunne and of the light They sealed not the booke of seruice with their bloud as M. Doctor sayth for some that suffered for the truth declared openly their misliking of certayne things in it and as for the other they could neuer dye for that booke more than for the Lyturgie vsed in the French church or at Geneua For they receyued not the sentence of condemnation bicause they approued that booke but bicause they improued the articles drawne out of the Masse booke And if they had dyed for that booke as in deede they dyed for the booke of God yet the authoritie of their martyrdome coulde not take away from vs this libertie that we haue to enquire of the cause of their death Iustine and Cyprian were godly Martyrs and yet a man may not say that they sealed their errours whiche they wrote wyth their bloud or wyth this glory of their martyrdome preiudice those which speake or write agaynst their errours for this is to oppose the bloud of men to the bloud of the sonne of God Io. Whitgifte These be the words of the Admonition they saye that the Authors of that booke were studious of peace and of the building vp of Christes Churche and therefore vpon their owne words and confession I grounde mine argument This peace that they were studious of and sought to maynteyne by collecting and authorising this booke was a godly peace sought to be maynteyned by godly meanes and therefore suche as shall deface that godly meanes wherby they procured peace can not de iudged otherwyse than disturbers of the same peace Gedeon by making the Ephod did not séeke peace but rather glory for he erected Gedeons Ephod it to be a monument of his victorie Gedeon erected the Ephod for an other ende and purpose than God did appoynt it the Ephod that Gedeon made was the cause of idolatrie Likewise Images are expresly forbidden in the word of God there is a direct cōmaundement agaynst them so is consubstātiation also But the booke of common prayer is framed according to the scriptures appoynted to the true worshipping of God most repugnant to all Idolatrie Idolatrous worshipping and therfore these similitudes exāples that you vse be nothing like it is neither like to Gedeons Ephod ▪ nor maynteineth Luthers Images or consubstantiation but ouerthroweth them all Their knowledge was in parte in that sense that the Apostle speaketh Ex parte The prayse of the makers of the booke enim cognoscimus ex parte prophetamus VVe knowe in part and we prophecie in part c. But if they be compared vnto men I thinke for learning zeale godlynesse sounde 1. Cor. 1 iudgemēt most of thē haue not bin ouermatched by any that hath folowed And surely their learning iudgement was singular But no maruell it is though you make so small account of me poore wretch when you so basely speake of them Undoubtedly in cōparison of your selues I thinke you contēne
determination of the church ought not lightly to be altered 89 ¶ Churching of women 534. c. The cause of the womans absence from the church after hir dehuerance 535 ¶ Circumstances necessarie are commaunded 512 ¶ Circumcision a sacrament 618 Circumcision in priuate houses 515 ¶ Cypriā chooseth without consent of the people 205 Cyprian of the office of an Archbishop 354. c. 367. c. Cyprian a Metropolitane 356. 438. 470. ¶ Ciuil offices in Ministers 749. c. Ciuill offices in our Ministers tend to the gouernment of the church pag. 75 Ciuill authoritie not claimed but committed to our Bishops 752 Some Ciuill offices rather helpes than hinderances to Bishops 753 Augustine iudgeth ciuill causes pag. 772. Ciuil iurisdiction that the Pope claimeth not like to that in vse in this church 759. 778 A greater ciuill iurisdiction sought for in disprouing the lesse 760 Ciuil iurisdictiō in vse in this church is in some respect ecclesiasticall pag. 766. 771 Ciuill and Ecclesiasticall offices met in one 767. 771. Ciuil offices in ministers not against the word of God 773. The practise of the Church for ciuil offices in ministers 773. Ciuill businesse incident to Byshops by the iudgemente of the holye Ghost 772. 774. ¶ Clement 319. c. Clements Epistle read in the church pag. 719. ¶ Collect vpon Trinitie Sunday 491 Collect of the 12. Sunday after Trinitie Sunday 491. ¶ Coemiteria 250. ¶ Commaundementes of diuerse kindes 103. All the commaundementes of God and of the Apostles are not nedefull for our saluation 103. ¶ Cōmunitie in the Apostles times pag. 162. ¶ Comelinesse externall is alterable 98. The iudgement of comelinesse resteth not in priuate men 87. ¶ Communion Booke 474. c. Communion in priuate places 5 4. 525. Communion ministred to the sicke pag. 527. c Of the number of Communicantes pag. 528. c. Basill would haue 12. at the least to communicate 530. Of compelling men to communicate 531. 532. 605. Men not meete to cōmunicate may be admitted to the hearing of the word and prayer 533. The Apostles began the communion wyth the Lordes prayer 588. 602. Matters touching the Communion pag. 588. c. Examination of Communicantes pag. 591. c. Two things worthie to be noted of Communicantes 592. Examination of communicants not disallowed 593. Communion bread 593. c. Alexander appoynted vnleauened breed 594. Bucers opinion of Communion bread 594. Caluines opinion of Communion bread 594. Christ vsed vnleauened bread 595. The kinde of bread indifferent 595. Communion at mariages 724. Of shutting mē from the Communion 603. Men persisting in wickednesse are not to be compelled to the communion 605. Halfe communion 737. The makers of the Communion booke praised 711. ¶ Companions of Paule chosen by consent and why 163. ¶ Comparisons vnequall 710. ¶ Conferēce a cause of better know ledge 176. Conference offered to the Replyer hath bene by him refused 354. 7. ¶ Confirmation 725. c 785. 786. Abuse of confirmation in the Popishe Church 786. Confirmation of old time like ours pag. 786. Confirmation at the length allowed 794. The ende of confirmation 794. ¶ Confusion follovveth the doctrin of the Admonitors 3. 559. 746. ¶ Conscientia mille testes 503. ¶ Consuls and their authoritie 396. ¶ Constantine made Ecclesiasticall lawes 698 ¶ Contention defended 34. 377. Contentiō a hinderance to the profession of diuinitie 141. VVho be contentious 13. 14. ¶ Contraries may be defined wyth one difference 124 Some delighte to be contrarie to tymes 283. Men of contrarie iudgement ioy ne against the truth 51. Howe contraries muste be cured by contraries 476. ¶ Conuenticles 41. ¶ Corruption 485 Corruption in the Churche in the Apostles time 349. ¶ Councels summoned by princes page 436 Varietie about the time of the coūcell of Nice 330. The meaning of the. 6. Can. of the councell of Nice Controuersie about the number of Canons of the councell of Nyce page 334. The seconde councell of Nyce alleaged by the Replyer 247. A corrupt councell of Vrbane alleaged by the Replyer 23. A corrupt councell of Hispall alleaged by the Replyer 442. ¶ Courtes of Byshops 679. c. Court of faculties 561. Ecclesiasticall courtes executed in the Princes name 680. ¶ Crossing in Baptisme 614. c. Difference betwixt the papists crossing and ours 616. Crossing no Sacrament 617. ¶ Curates allowed 245. ¶ Cursed things consecrated to god page 284. D. ¶ Damasus alleaged to a wrong pur pose 248. Damasus added Gloria patri 489. ¶ Dayes obseruing of dayes 546. 547. 549. 〈◊〉 kindes of obseruing of Dayes 546 ¶ Deacons chosen by consent and vvhy 164 Of ministring preaching by Deacons 582. c Philip a Deacon baptised 582. 515 Deacons helpe in the ministration pag. 585 The Deaconship a step vnto the ministery 587 Deacons baptised 588. c. More pertayneth too the office of a Deacon than prouision for the poore 687. c. Some parte of the Deacons office not necessary vnder a Christian Prince 689. 690 VVhether Deacons were in euerye congregation 689 VVhy the Apostles left the Deaconship 758 ¶ Deanes 347. 746 ¶ Decrees pertayning too order not onely humane 107 ¶ Degrees of honour in the ministerie 458 Degrees in Diuinitie condemned 780. 781. Degrees in the Vniuersitie condemned 782 To take away Degrees is barbarousnesse 420 To be deliuered from euill what it signifieth 498 ¶ Demetrius bishop of Alexandria and Egypt 470 ¶ Defyling the nature of thinges is not in mans power 285 How farre the precepte in Deuteromie is extended 117 ¶ Digressions frō the matter to the persons 24. 235. 351. 370. 512. ¶ Dic Ecclesiae interpreted 636. 663 ¶ Dionisius Areopagita Archbishop of Athens 470. 324 Dionysius Ariopagite vsed of maister Ievvell agaynst Harding 608 Dionysius Alexandr Bishop of Alexandria and Pentapolis 470 Dionysius Corinthius b 719 Dionysius Corinth his epistles read in the Church 719 Dionysius deuided parishes 249. 250. ¶ Dioscorus Archbishop 338. 471. ¶ Discipline necessarie 559 Matters concerning Discipline 660 VVherein Discipline consisteth 661 The execution of Discipline not gyuen equally to all 313 ¶ Distinction quoad ministerium quoad ordinem iustified 390 Disobedience in ciuill matters is disobedience to God 282 Dissention domesticall the fo erunner of Destruction 705 ¶ Doctors of law left out of the Admonition and way 783 ¶ Doctrine framed to mens persons pag. 148 All pointes of Doctrine pure in this Church 129 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 interpreted 461 ¶ Dominion hath diuerse significations 63 Some kind of temporall Dominion denied to ministers 64 A minister maye exercise temporall Dominion 64. 65 ¶ Donatists and their properties 50. 622. ¶ A doubtfull saying 255 ¶ Drun kardes in the visible church pag. 177 E ¶ Easter obserued of the Apostles pag. 〈◊〉 ¶ King Edwardes priestes left 〈◊〉 pag. 〈◊〉 ¶ Elections act 1. act 6. agree 〈◊〉 pag. 〈◊〉 Elections by the people not 〈◊〉 in the Apostles time 〈◊〉 Elections by the people not generall in
not new but renued no stranger but borne in Sion wherevnto it being before vniustly banished ought now of right to be restored Io. Whitgifte Snrely the offences are taken bothe in respecte of the persons and of the cause Neither is eyther the persons or the cause charged with any thing by mée but I am readie eyther to proue it or to retract it The antiquitie of it and the straungenesse wée must referre to be iudged of the Reader when we haue both written what we can In the meane tyme I suppose that youre deuises with the circumstances will appeare not only not to be auncient but verie straunge and lately deuised although in suche matters antiquitie is not sufficient to proue a thing conuenient excepte it agrée with the circumstances of tyme place and persons much lesse necessarie vnlesse it be in matters pertayning to saluation as shall hereafter God willing more largely be declared where also it will appeare that many of your assertions tende not to renouation but innouation and that they were neuer eyther borne in Sion or méete for Sion The Epist. of T. C. Sect. 3. And of confusion and disorder it is yet more vntruly accused For iustice may be as well accused for dooing wrong as this doctrine for bringing in disorder whose whole woorke is to prouide that nothing be done out of place out of tyme or otherwyse than the condition of euery mans calling will beare which putteth the people in subiectiō vnder their gouernours the gouernours in degree and order one vnder an other as the Elder vnderneath the Pastor and the Deacon vnderneath the Elder which teacheth that a particular Churche shall giue place vnto a prouinciall Synode where many Churches are and the prouinciall to a nationall and lykewyse that vnto the generall if any bee and all vnto Christe and his worde When on the contrarie parte those whiche stande against this doctrine are therby compelled to bring into the Churche great confusion and maruellous disorder whylest the Pastors office is confounded with the deacons whilest women doo minister the Sacraments which is lawful only for men whylest priuate men doo that which belongeth vnto publike persons whilest publike actions are done in priuate places whilest the Churche is shuffled with the common wealth whylest ciuill matters are handeled by Ecclesiasticall persons and Ecclesiasticall by those whiche be Ciuill and to be short whylest no officer of the Church kepeth his standing and one member doth take vpon it the office of an other Which things as they hazarde the armie and destroy the bodie so they doe presently hinder and wil shortly if remedie be not prouided vtterly ouerthrowe the Churche And therefore vnlesse good order bee in that whiche was broughte into the Churche by Poperye and confusion in that whyche was lefte vnto the Churche by the Apostles and that it be order that publike actions shoulde be doone in priuate places by priuate persons and by women that is appoynted to be doone by men and confusion when the contrarie is obserued and finally vnlesse order haue an other definition or nature than hitherto hath ben read or hearde of there is no cause why this doctrine which contemeth the discipline and gouernment of the Churche should be thus shamefully slaundered with confusion and disorder Io. Whitgifte It will fall out I thinke that your opinions now in question tende in déede to Where vnto their opinions tend confusion respect neither tyme place nor persons confounde degrées bring such in contempt as be in authoritie make the ignorant subiect loftie arrogant take from Princes their due authoritie in Ecclesiasticall matters when as present experience and the peace and quietnesse of this Church since the beginning of the Quéenes Maiesties reigne vntill you and your companie began to broache these youre fantasies declareth that the doctrine mainteyned by those whome you counte as your aduersaries is most agréeable to order preserueth peace kéepeth euery man in his degrée and calling And truly if the gouernment of the Churche nowe allowed by publike authoritie be compared with your new deuised policie the differēce of them both wil easily appere For I pray you tel me how many of you which haue bin permitted as The admonitors agree not in their go uernment preachers in seuerall places haue consented in one kinde of gouernment nay which of you haue not troubled not onely the Towne where you haue remained but the whole Countrey reunde about also so that vndoubtedly though you be not Anabaptists as I hope you be not yet doth this propertie of theirs most aptly agrée vnto you that whersoeuer you come you make contention and kindle the fire of discorde take it as you list experience doth teache it to be so Whether we confounde the Pastors office with the Deacons or no otherwyse than it hath bene in the Apostles time and primatiue Church whether priuate men women ciuill or Ecclesiasticall persons doe more than they ought to doe or no to be short whether order according to the true nature and definition thereof be obserued or no I shall haue better occasion hereafter to discusse Now my meaning is to answer words with wordes although in no such deriding and opprobrious maner The Epist. of T. C. Sect. 4. For the thirde poynt which is that it is an enimie to Magistrates and the common welth if it be inough to accuse without proofe saye and to shewe no reason innocencie it selfe shall not be guiltlesse This doctrine was in tymes past euen by their confession which write agaynst it a friend vnto Princes and Magistrates when Princes and magistrates were enimies vnto it And can it now be an enimie vnto Princes and magistrates which are friends vnto it It helped and vpholded the common wealths which were gouerned by tyrantes and can it hynder those which are gouerned by godly Princes And in what is it an enimie to Princes and magistrates Note the variance set downe the enimitie If the question be whether Princes and Magistrates bee necessarie in the Churche it holdeth that the vse of them is more than of the Sunne without the whyche the worlde can not stande If it bee of theyr honoure it holdeth that with humble submission of mynde the outwarde also of the bodie yea the bodie it selfe and all that it hathe if neede so require are to be yelded for the defence of the Prince and for that seruice for the whyche the Prince will vse them vnto for the glorie of God and mayntenance of the Common wealth Io. Whitgifte These be but glorious wordes the truth wherof shall appeare when we come to the more particular declaration of the seuerall poyntes and if wée accuse without proofe say and shewe no reason take youre remedie agaynste vs as slaunderers and bring vs to our triall In deede the doctrine of the Gospell which is the doctrine of saluation hath ben is and will be a friend to Princes and Magistrates yea though they persecute the same
so that that reason may shewe what Aaron thought of it and this what was the opinion of the people I would haue you to deale sincerely in alleaging of the scriptures You put me ouer to the treatises of godly newe wryters which doe refuse this distinction c. But you neither name those wryters vnto me nor let me vnderstande where to finde those treatises whiche maketh me suspecte that you neyther knowe whose nor where they be but the matter is not greate I doe as muche mislike that distinction of the Papistes and the intent of it as any man dothe neyther doe I goe aboute to excuse them from wycked and without repentance and Gods singular mercy damnable Idolatrie But yet doe I saye the Idolatrie bothe of the Iewes and of the Gentiles for the causes by me alleaged to be muche greater For there Three kindes of Idolatrie Martyr in Iud. 2. Musculus in Lo. com in expla 1. praecept are thrée kyndes of Idolatrie One is when the true God is worshipped by other meanes and wayes than he hathe prescribed or woulde be worshipped The other is when the true God is worshipped togither wyth false Gods 2. Regum 17. The thirde is when we worship false Gods eyther in harte and mynde or in externall creatures liuing or dead and altogither forget the worshippe of the true God All these thrée kindes are detestable but the first is the least and the laste is the worste in the whiche kinde the Israelites sundrie tymes offended as is manifest in the places before mentioned The Papistes worship God otherwyse than his will is and otherwise than he hathe prescribed almoste in all poyntes of their worship they also giue to the creature that whiche is due to the Creator and sinne agaynst the first table yet are they not for ought that I can see or learne in the thirde kinde of Idolatrie and therfore if they repent vnfaynedly they are not to be caste either out of the Churche or out of the ministerie The Papistes haue little cause to thanke me or to fée me for any thing that I haue spoken in their behalfe as yet you sée that I place them among wicked and damnable Idolaters My defense is of those that haue bin Papistes and be not and for no other for them I speake my conscience according to my poore knowledge take it as you please Of Ministers learning of Catechismes Chap. 3. Admonition The thirde Then (p) 1. Tim. 4. II they taught others nowe they muste be instructed themselues and therfore like yong children they (q) Ministers of London 〈◊〉 ioyned to learne M. Novvels C techisme muste learne Catechismes Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 40. Sect. 3. 4. 5. Pag ▪ 41 ▪ Sect. 1. 2. God be thanked there is a great number of Ministers that can teach others and may be your scholemasters in al kinde of learning except you haue more than you vtter in these treatises If they that finde some want of learning in themselues or that be crepte into the ministerie vnlearned either of their owne accord or by commaundement of their Ordinarie reade and learne godly and learned Catechismes they are to be commended and so is he that prouoketh them therevnto That Catechisme whiche you in derision quote in the margent is a booke fit for you to learne also and I knowe no man so well learned but it may become him to read and learne that learned and necessarie booke But some arrogant spirites there be that thinke them selues of all men best learned and disdayne to learne of any That place of the fourth chapter of the first to Timothie doth not forbid a man to learne He that is a good and modest preacher will not disdayne as well to be taught as to teache T. C. Pag. 28. Sect. 2. 3. What shoulde become of the people in the meane season whilest they learne their Catechisme and when they haue learned it they are no more fit to be Ministers and to teache other than he that hath learned his Accidence is meete to set vp a schole And it can not be defended but it was a grosse ouersighte to enioyne ministers to learne a Catechisme It were muche to compell them to reade it And if a man would haue dec amed agaynst the ignorance of the moste parte of the ministers three whole dayes togither he coulde not haue sayde more agaynst them than that Canon which sendeth them to their A. B. C. and principles of their religion Howe knowe you that they quote the Catechisme in the margent in derision is there any sillable or letter that soundeth that wayes if you coniecture it because they haue set it in the margent you may as well say that they likewise quote the scriptures in derision beeing also placed there * It followeth euen as the rest of your argu ments do for it is your own and no mans else But howe followeth this It is meete that ministers shoulde learne euery day therefore it is meete they be enioyned to learne Catechismes it is meete they shoulde reade Catechismes therefore meete to learne them and be enioyned to learne them Is there nothing worthier the learning and profession of the Minister than to learne Catechismes or dothe a man learne those thinges alwayes which he readeth dothe he not reade things sometime to recorde the things that he hathe learned For bicause they say it is not meete that ministers should be enioyned to learne a Catechisme you conclude of their wordes that they woulde not haue a minister to learne or to reade any thing whiche is as farre from their meaning or wordes eyther as you are from the reasonable and vpright expounding of them Io. Whitgifte God be thanked the people néede not pyne awaye for lacke of foode they haue the Scriptures read vnto them they haue also profitable and fruitef ll Homilies they haue the Sacramentes rightly ministred and publyke prayers in a knowne tongue and sometyme God sendeth vnto them some well disposed preacher further to instructe them and the Curate is not so slothefull and carelesse but that he will also communicate with them that whiche he himselfe hathe by diligent reading learned Catechismes and that especially doe conteyne the groundes of religion and the principall poyntes of faythe and good lyfe and therefore not vnfitte or vnprofitable for any man to reade I know not what weightier matters they can learne than those that be conteyned in that booke excepte you thinke nothing waightie but suche matters as you nowe contende for and for the which you so muche disturbe the peace of the Churche It is well done to enioyne them to learne it and it shall be no disgracing no not to your selfe to reade it We doe not denie but that there be vnlearned Ministers in Englande and we thinke it no discredite at all to enioyne them to learne suche thinges as are moste profitable bothe for them to knowe and to teache vnto other To reade and
and that there will not be wanting some probable colours also whereby these things may be defended if men will set themselues to striue and to contende yet for the desyre that I haue that these things should be amended and for the instruction of the symple which are studious of the truth I haue beene bolde to vtter that whiche I thinke not doubting also but that the lyght of the truth shall be able to scatter all those mystes of reasons which shall go about to darken the clearnesse thereof Io. Whitgifte Surely if the blottes be so manifest as you woulde séeme to make them it is not wisely done of you so slenderly to passe them ouer You do well to thinke that this treatise of yours touching prayer will be subiect to The pith of the replie concerning prayer many reprehensions and why shoulde it not What is there in it worthie of commendation What learning what reason what truth what godlinesse except vaine wordes be learning fancies reason lyes truth contempt of good lawes and orders with vnséemely iestes bée godlynesse for what is there else in thys treatise Truely if you had not settled your selfe to striue and to contende and had not béene desyrous to peruert the simple rather than to instruct them you would neuer vpon so weake a ground with so féeble reasons or rather vaine fansyes haue gone about to depraue so worthie a Booke In the whiche as I haue sayde before you are not able to shewe any thing especially touching the order maner and matter of prayer that is not consonant to the worde of God Neyther haue you for all that is spoken against the forme of prayer alledged one text of Scripture or one sentence of any auncient or late wryter and doe you thinke that men will beléeue you vpon your bare wordes agaynst so many Martyrs and learned men as haue allowed and doe allowe that booke Your credite is not so greate as you thinke it is and that which you haue when you are accordingly detected will vtterly vanishe and fade away Of Baptisme by women wherewith the Communion booke is falsely charged Chap. 3. the. 1. Diuision Admonition In which a great number of things contrarie to Gods worde are conteyned as baptisme (i) Mat. 28. 19 1 Co. 14. 35 The fyrst appoynter hereof vvas Vietor 1. Anno. 198. by women Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 79. Sect. 2. 3. 4. 5. All prayers good in the Communion booke But you say a number of things contrarie vnto Gods worde are conteyned in this booke as baptisme by women c. Here is not one prayer in all the Communion booke founde fault with and yet your quarell is agaynst a prescript forme of prayers inuented by man You marueylously forget your selfe and confusedly go from matter to matter without any consideration Digressing therefore from prayers conteyned in the Communion booke you come to other matters in the same agaynst Gods worde as you say and first you alledge baptising by women I denie baptising by women to be expressed in that booke and when you haue proued it to be necessarily gathered out of the same then shall you heare my iudgement thereof T. C. Pag. 109. Sect. 4. Mayster Doctor requireth that it shoulde be proued vnto him that by pryuate Baptisme is ment Baptisme by women First it is ment that it shoulde be done by some other than the Minister for that the Minister is bidde to giue them warning that they shoulde not baptise the childe at home in their house without great cause and necessitie secondarily I woulde gladly aske him who they be that are present when the childe is so shortly after it is borne in great daunger of death and last of all Mayster Doctor doth not see howe he accuseth all the Magistrates of this Realme of the neglect of theyr duetie in that they allowe of the dayly practising by women in baptising children if so be that the booke did not so appoynt it or permit it If he nt plainly herein there needed not so much a doe Io. Whitgifte Here is nothing sayde whiche the Authours of the Admonition haue not alledged before eyther in theyr booke or in theyr Additions and therefore the same answere that was made vnto them will serue for you I tolde you there Why baptism is called priuate that the booke of Common prayer doth call it priuate Baptisme in respect of the place which is a priuate house and not in respect of the Minister whiche euidently appeareth in these wordes whiche you your selfe alledge in this place that is that the Minister is bidde to giue them warning that they shoulde not baptise the childe at home in their house c. but you cannot thereof conclude the meaning of the Booke to be that women shoulde baptise for euen in that necessitie the Curate may be sent for or some other minister that may sooner be come by Your question is soone answered for no man doubteth of the persons that bée present at suche a tyme but I haue tolde you that when suche necessitie requyreth the Curate or the next Minister is soone sent for as often tymes he is in as great extremities as that and what a reason call you thys women bée present when the chylde that is borne is in great daunger of death therefore the Minister cannot be sent for to baptise the childe To your obiection of the Magistrates allowing the practise of Baptising by women I answere first that your generall proposition is vntrue as I thinke for all the Magistrates of this Realme doe not so Secondly that if they did yet it followeth not that they doe it by the authoritie of the Booke for many things bée permitted as tollerable whiche are not established by any lawe and therefore if you had done well you shoulde rather haue reproued the custome that doth vse it than the booke that speaketh neuer a worde of it I deale as playnly as I can for I kéepe me to the Booke But your vayne coniectures and friuolous reasons against that booke may not be yelded vnto but opened that they may appeare in their colours Chap. 3. the. 2. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 79. Sect. vlt. Your places of Scripture alleadged against it are not of sufficient Feeble arguments force to proue your purpose Christ in the. 28. of Mathew sayde to his disciples Go and teache all nations baptisyng them in the name of the father c. ergo women may not baptise I saye this argumente followeth not no more than this doth Ergo pastors may not baptise for it is manyfest that an Apostle is dislincte from a Pastor T. C. Pag. 109. Sect. 5. The place of the. 28. of Sainct Mathew is as strong agaynst womens baptizing as it is agaynst theyr preaching For (a) Vntruth 〈◊〉 hath 〈◊〉 the ministerie of the worde and Sacramentes can not be pulled in sunder which y e Lord hath ioyned togither from time to time For
occasion they may speake as I haue said in my Answer Chap. 3. the. 4. Diuision T. C. Pag. 110. Sect. 2. Nowe if the speache be a true messenger of the hearte I perceyue master Doctor is of 〈◊〉 this mind that he would haue women preach in the Church of England at this time for he cannot denie and he also confesseth it sometimes that this is the time of necessitie and indeede it must be needes an extreme necessitie that driueth to make one man Pastor of two churches especially so farre distant that driueth to make men whiche are not able to teach ministers and diuers more things which are contrary to the word of God Therefore this being a time of necessitie by M. Doctors iudgement we ought to haue women to preach Besides this he sayth if neyther none other can or will preach that then women may preach but in the most churches of this realme there is none that eyther can or will preach therefore there and in those churches women at the leaste if they be able may preach the Gospell and consequently minister the sacraments Io. Whitgifte You wander from the matter and do but séeke occasion to quarel there is no such necessitie in this Church God be thanked as M. Doctor speaketh of for there is none in anye place or corner thereof that be ignorante of Christ or do not professe the name of Christ In all places they haue the scriptures red vnto them whiche conteine matter sufficient to saluation and therefore there is no cause why women should take vpon them to preach in the congregation neyther doth M. Doctor meane any such thing as you know very well but that it is your pleasure to dallie He meaneth In what time a womā may preach Christ. such places where all be infidells where they haue neither heard of Christ nor haue his word neither yet any other meanes to come by the knowledge of the same which is no where in this Church Chap. 3. the. 5. Diuision Admonition Women that may (h) 1. Co. 14. 34 1. Tim. 2. 11 not speake in a congregation may yet in time of necessitie minister the Sacrament of Baptisme and that in a priuate house Ansvver to the Admonition Pag 186. Sect. vlt. You say women that may not speake in a congregation may yet in time of necessitie minister the sacrament of baptisme and that in a priuate house And to proue that women may not speake in a congregation you quote 1. Cor. 14. 1. Ti. 2. whereas you should rather haue proued that women may not in time of necessitie minister baptisme for that is the question and not the other Women may speake in the congregation if necessary occasion do require as M. Caluin teacheth in his institutions Chap. 13. Sect. 32. T. C. Pag. 110. Sect. 3. In the. 187. Page he citeth M. Caluine in the. 13. Chap. Section 32. to proue that women may teach wherein (*) An argument of your ignorance I maruell what he meaneth so to alleadge M. Caluine continually he alleadgeth the. 13. Chap. and no booke as though he had written but one booke and indeede there is no such thing in no such chapter of any booke of his institutions or many other place throughout his whole works as I am perswaded If this fault had bin but twise or thrise I woulde haue thought it had bin the Printers but now that it is continuall and so oftentimes surely he gyueth great suspicion that eyther some body hath mocked him with these places or else he would abuse others and especially him that should answere his booke setting him to seeke that he shoulde neuer finde Io. Whitgifte You pleade ignorance of such an edition of M. Caluines institutions but it is bycause you cannot answer the place for other places which I haue in like manner alleaged for the which you might haue any colour of answering you haue found out at the first yea and this selfe same place now in question but when there is no shifte to auoyd that which is alledged then you quarell with the booke and suspect that eyther Pag. 19. Sect. some body hath mocked him or that he would abuse others c. No no T. C. I thanke god I vse no such dealing I do alledge nothing which I haue not red in the Authors themselues I study not to encounter the Answer for eyther I set downe the whole place or else quote it so that it may easily be found Touching this booke of institutions of M. Caluines which I now follow I haue spoken before and declared why I do vse it rather than any other I haue laboured it noted it I am acquainted with it and belike I red it before you knew whether there was any such booke or no and if there be no suche booke of M. Caluines institutions only deuided into chapters and sections and not into bookes I will giue you all M. Caluines works bycause you so complayne of lacke of bookes But to come to the thing it selfe M. Caluine in that place speaking of such lawes and orders in the Church as are not perpetuall but alterable as occasion serueth vseth this commaundement of S. Paules touching the silence of women in the Churche for one example to make the matter more manifest his wordes be these Or is the commaundement touching hir silence such as it may not be broken without wickednesse Chap. 1 Sect. 32. And alittle after Et est vbi loqui nō minus opportunum illi sit quà m alibi tacere And there is a time and place when and where it is as fit for hir to speake as else where to holde ir peace These words be plaine and do sufficiently answer all that you can obiect to the contrary Chap. 3. the. 6. Diuision T. C. Pag. 110. Sect. 4. As for M. Caluines iudgement what it is of womens preaching it may appeare by that he 4. Li. institut cap. 15. Sect. 20. will not by no meanes no not in time of necessitie as they tearme it suffer eyther woman or any lay man to baptise or minister any sacrament and therefore not to preach Io. Whitgifte I doubt not of M. Caluines iudgement in that poynt and yet I knowe other learned and notable men that thinke otherwise and namely Zuinglius in his booke de baptismo neyther do I go about to teach that women may preach I tell you onely what extreame necessitie maye extraordinarily permitte withoute iust cause of reprehension Chap. 3. the. 7. Diuision T. C. Pag. 110. Sect. vlt. And as for the examples of Mary the sister of Moyses of Olda of Anna and the daughters of Philip the Euangelist whiche are all called prophetesses tor I thinke M. Doctor meaneth these examples as for them I say it will be hard for to shew that they euer prophecied or taughte openly in any publike me ng or congregation But the surer answer is that although the Lorde do sometimes not being vnder any
offered It stands you vpon for it is much to your dishonestie and a great discredite to your whole cause Touching this place of S. Paule 1. Cor. 11. I say as I said before and I adde that he only reproueth such abuses as were vsed among them in their publike assemblies he speaketh not of celebrating the communion in priuate places S. Paule maketh no such opposition in that place as you speake of neyther doth he speake any thing sounding that way only he reproueth the abuse which was thē crept into the supper of the Lord among the Corinthians Quòd sacro spirituali epulo profana symposia permiscerent idque cum pauperum contumelia In that they mingled prophane Cal. in 1. Co. 11 banquetts with that holy and spirituall feast and that with the contumely of the poore as M ▪ Caluine sayth Wherefore it appeareth that either you are disposed to make good whatsoeuer they haue written be it neuer so absure or else you wittingly dissemble the true sense and meaning of this place Chap. 3. the. 11. Diuision Ansvver to the Admonition Pag. 80. Sect. 4. You say in your margent that Uictor Anno. 198. did first appoynt that women might baptise By this you adde more credite to the cause than you are aware of for Uictor was a godly Byshop and a Uictor a good Byshop and martyr martyr and the Church at that time was in great puritie not being long after the Apostles time But truly I can find no such thing in all his decrees onely this he saythe that suche as be conuerted of the Gentiles to the faythe of Chryste in tyme of necessitie or at the poynte of deathe may be baptised at any tyme in any place whether it be in the sea or in a riuer or in a pond or in a well so that they make a confession of their fayth he maketh no mention at all of any baptizing by women and therfore you haue doone youre cause greate iuiurie Io. Whitgifte Nothing answered here vnto Of ministring the Sacramentes in priuate places Chap. 4. the first Diuision Admonition Then they were ministred in publike assemblies nowe in priuate houses Answere to the Admonition Pag. 92. Sect. 2. The places of Scripture whereby you proue that Sacraments Baptisme m nistred in priuate places were then ministred in publike assemblies be taken out of the firste of S Marke and. 1. Cor. II. which places of scripture proue that Iohn did baptize openly and that the Lordes Supper was ministred in the publike congregation but neyther of them bothe conclude that these Sacramentes may not also be ministred vpon any occasion in priuate houses for what sequele is there in this reason al the c untrey of Iudea and they of Ierusalem went out vnto him and wer Arg non sequitur baptized of him in the riuer of Iordan confessing their synnes Ergo baptisme may not be ministred vpon any occasion in priuate houses you may as well conclude that none ought to be baptized but in the riuer of Iordan and none but such as be able to confesse their sinnes and so you shoulde seclude children from Baptisme as the Anabaptists doe T. C. Page 111. Sect. vlt. To the admonition obiecting in the nintie and two page that Iohn baptized openly amongst the congregation he answereth and sayth that it may be as well concluded that we should baptize only in the riuer of Iordane and none but those that be of age by whiche saying he giueth to vnderstand (a) Nay I giue you to 〈◊〉 the fondnesse of the argument that to baptize in the Church hath no greater necessitie than y e baptizing in Iordan nor it skilleth no more whether baptisme be ministred in the publike assemblie than it is necessatie or skilleth whether we be baptized in the ryuer of Iordan and that the baptisme of yong infants hath no better groundes than priuate baptisme hath The latter wherof both beyng absurde is tootoo 〈◊〉 vnto the baptisme of yong infantes For as of our Sauiour Christes preaching in publike places and refusyng priuate places we doe gather that the preachyng of the woorde ought to be publike Euen so of S. Iohns preaching and baptizing in open meetings we conclude that both preaching and baptizing ought to be in publike assemblies Io. Whitgifte I referre it to the learned Reader to iudge whether this be a good argumente or no Iohn baptised openly in the Riuer Iordan Ergo baptism may at no time vpon any occasion be ministred in a priuate house And if any will iudge it to be good thē will I demaunde of them why this should not be as good Iohn did baptise in Iordane Ergo none ought to be baptized but in the riuer Iordane Or this Iohn baptized suche as confessed their synnes Ergo none muste be baptised but suche as are able to make a confession of their sinnes This is that vnskilful kinte of reasoning that Zuinglius so ofte reproueth the Anabaptistes for and he calleth it an argumente à facto ad ius I doe not in any respecte speake agaynste baptizing in the Churche but doe greately commende it as a thyng moste conueniente but I doe not so tie the Sacramente to the place or publike congregation that I make it of the necessitie of the Sacramente so that it maye not vppon any occasion be ministred in a priuate house I compare not baptizing in the Churche and in the riuer Iordane together neyther doe I saye that baptizing of yong infantes hath no better groundes than priuate baptisme hath but I disallowe this kinde of proofe which the A monition vseth and I sée not why it is not of lyke force in all other the circumstances of that place and those examples that I haue alleadged Christe preached both priuately and publikely in the temple and in priuate families in great assemblies and seuerally to his owne disciples and at all tymes as occasion serued and therefore you can not conclude by the example of Christe that the preachyng of the Gospel ought only to be publike in the open congregation and at no tyme priuate vpon any occasion Chap. 4. the. 2. Diuision T. C. Page 112. Sect. 1. And although to some one action there concurre diuers things which partly are not to be folowed at all partly are indifferent to be followed or not followed yet neyther the vnlawfulnesse of the one to be followed nor the indifferencie of the other can hinder but there are some other things in the same action necessarie to be followed whyche maye be consydered bothe of the place of the Actes touchyng the election where I haue (a) It is sayd but not proued proued some thyngs there mentioned to be necessarie to be doone in elections although other some be not conuenient nor fit for vs to followe And I haue shewed it also by M. Caluine whiche M. Doctor allcadgeth for himselfe and by Cyprian (b) A digression from the matter to the person whose
to celebrate the Lordes Supper And if it did the dignitie of the Sacramentes do not depende vpon the man be he minister or not minister be he good or euill Lette euery one take heede that they doe not vsurpe that authoritie wherevnto they be not called T. C. P ag 113. Sect. 1. 2. 3. He hath certayne other (*) Vntruth for I vse no reasons to that end to proue that women may baptize whereof the first is in the. 93. page and that is that Sephora Moses wife circumcised hir child wherevnto I haue answered partly before that particular examples especially contrary to generall rules are not to be followed and will further answer if I first admonish the Reader wherevpon this baptisme of midwiues and in priuate houses rose that when we know of how rotten a stocke it came the frute it selfe may be more lothsome vnto vs. It first therefore rose vpō a false interpretation of the place of S. Iohn V nlesse a man be borne againe of vvater and of the spirit he cannot enter into the kingdome of heauen 3. Iohn Where certayne do interprete the word water for the materiall and elementall water wherewith men are washed when as our sauioure Christ taketh water there by a translation or borrowed speach for the spirit of God the effect whereof it shadoweth out For euen as in another place by the fire and spirit he meaneth nothing but the spirit of God which purgeth and purifyeth as the 3. Math. fire doth so in this place by the water and the spirit he meaneth nothing else but the spirit of God which clenseth the filth of sinne and cooleth the broyling heate of an vnquiet conscience as water washeth the thing which is foule and quencheth the heate of the fire Secondarily this erroure came by a false and vnnecessary conclusion drawen of that place For although the scripture should say that none can be saued but those which haue the spirit of God and are baptised with materiall and elementall water yet ought it to be vnderstanded of those whiche can conueniently and orderly be brought to baptisme as the Scripture saying that who so doth not beleeue the gospell is Iohn 3. already condemned meaneth this sentence of those which can heare the gospell and haue discretion to vnderstand it when they heare it and cannot here shut vnder this condemnation eyther those that be borne deafe and so remayne or little infants or naturall fooles that haue no witte to conceiue what is preached And herevpon S. Augustine concludeth that all not baptized are condemned which is as absurdly 106. Epist. ad Bonifac. in lib. de meritis remissi pec cat 1. ca. 4 concluded of him as that of our sauioure Christes words excepte one eate the flesh of the sonne of man he hath not life he concludeth that whatsoeuer he be whiche receyueth not the Sacrament of the Supper is damned Upon this false conclusion of S. Augustine hath risen this prophanation of the sacramente of baptisme in being ministred in priuate houses and by women or lay men as also vpon his other absurd conclusion sprong a horrible abuse of the Lords supper whilest they did thrust the bread and wine into yong infantes mouthes for that menne were perswaded that otherwise if their children should die before they were baptised or had receyued the supper that they were damned for euer And what better token can there be that this was the cause of this blind baptisme than that the Papistes from whome this baptisme by women is translated were of the same iudgement and for that cause brought in their baptisme by women Herevnto may be added another cause which is that as when the Churche began not only to decline but to fall away from the sinceritie of religion it borrowed a number of other prophanations of the heathen so also it borrowed this For as the heathen had women priests so it would haue also hir women priests and Li. 3. ca. 9. that this was another occasion of bringing in the baptisme by women it appeareth by your Clement if he can speake any truth Io. Whitgifte It is vntrue that I vse any reasons at all to proue that women may baptise onely I bring this and such like examples to improue this generall assertion of the Admonition that then sacraments were ministrred by ministers only and not by midwiues or deacons For Deacōs then did baptise and Moses wife long before that time did circumcise I know that particular examples make no general rules but you are not ignorant that Particular examples may sometimes be followed particular examples may in the like cases and circumstances be followed when ther is no rule to the contrary The place in the. 3. of Iohn by you alleadged hath diuers interpretations and the most part of the auncient writers do take water in that place for materiall and elementall water as Augustine Chrisostome Ambrose Cyrill and sundry others euen as Chr. in 3. Io. 3. lib. de spirit sanct lib. 2. de Abrabam patriar Cyri. in 3. Io. many of the auncient fathers as I haue red vpon that text But bycause I do mislike as much as you the opinion of those that thinke infants to be condemned which are not baptized therefore I will not contend with you eyther in the interpretation of that place or in anye other thing that you haue spoken touching this erroure onely this I saye that you must take héede least in auoiding an errour you fall into an heresie and giue place to Anabaptistes in not baptising infants And I knowe not what you can saye agaynste priuate baptisme in that case of necessitie whyche they doe not in lyke manner alleadge agaynste the baptising of yong Infantes Master Caluine in his Introduction Aduersus Anabap. though he allowe not this errour which condemneth chyldren not baptized yet doth he approue and allowe the necessitie of baptizing infantes His woordes be these But some man will say that the grace of God towardes vs is not diminished Caluine uers 〈◊〉 if infantes be not admitted to Baptisme so that it be not denied that God is as mercifull vnto them as vnto the children of the Iewes but I will shewe that it is much diminished for we muste esteeme the grace of God especially by the declaration thereof which he maketh both by his worde and Sacramentes Seyng therefore Baptisme is nowe ordeyned that the promise of saluation may be sealed in our bodies as it was in tymes past in the people of the Iewes Christians should be depriued of a singular consolation if theyr children shoulde be secluded from this confirmation which all the faythfull haue at all tymes enioyed that they should haue the visible signe whereby the Lorde doth shewe and witnesse that he receyueth their children into the Communion and fellowship of the Churche If the Authours of the Admonition say truly that Victor who liued Anno. 198. did firste appoynt that women might Baptise
and partes of the Churche Chap. 5. the. 8. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 153. Sect. 2. M. Bucer in his censure vpon the Communion booke speaking of Bucer the order appointed in the same for priuate Baptisme writeth thus In this constitution all things are godly appoynted I vvoulde to God they Differring of baptisme not expedient vvere so obserued and especially this that the baptisme of infants be not differred for therby is a dore opened vnto the Deuill to bring in a contempt of baptisme and so of our whole redemption and cōmunion of Christ which thorough the sect of Anabaptistes hath to much preuayled vvith many T. C. Pag. 114. Sect. 2. In the 153. page M. Bucers censure vpon the cōmunion booke is cited for the allowaunce of that it hath touching priuate baptisme and consequently of the baptisme by women It may be that as M. Bucer although otherwise very learned hath (*) This is but grosse courtesie other grosse absurdities so he may haue that But it had bene for the credite of your cause if you had shewed that out of those writings which are published knowne to be his not out of those wherof men may doubt whether euer he wrote any such or no And if he wrote whether they be corrupted by those into whose hands they came And if you would take any aduauntage of M. Bucers testimonie considering that a witnesse is a publike person you should haue brought him out of your studie into the stationers shop where he mought haue bene common to others as well as to you whereby his stile and manner of writing as it were by his gestures and countenaunces and by those things that go before and come after as it were by his head and by his fecte we might the better know whether it were the true Bucer or no. Io. Whitgifte It is very grosse courtesie that you shewe to so worthie and learned a man modestie The reuerēce which T. C. giueth to learned men and charitie would not haue bene so rashe as to answere that whiche he well speaketh in opprobriously obiecting vnto him his other errours which you call grosse absurdities But this is the reuerence that you giue to all learning and learned men that are contrary to your opinions I haue sometimes heard a Papiste burst out into this rage against M. Bucer beyng pressed with his authoritie But you are the first professour of the Gospell that euer I hearde so churlishly to vse so reuerent so learned so paynefull so sounde a father being also an earnest and zelous professour It causeth me the lesse to regarde what you speake of me when I heare such bitternesse agaynst all other be they neuer so zealous and excellent Well Bucers reasons which touch the quicke would haue bene reasonablie answered without spyte and you should rather haue considered them than the authour There is nothing in these woordes by him affirmed which is not in as playne termes auouched by Zuinglius in the woordes before recited The booke of M. Bucers is forth cōming to be shewed and he affirmeth nothing therein contrary to his bookes published he had more speciall occasion here offred to speake both of this and other matters now in controuersie and therefore the more he is to be credited Chap. 5. the. 9. Diuision T. C. Pag. 114. Sect. 2. For although I wil not say but that this may be Bucers doing yet it seemeth very straunge that Bucer should not onely contrarie to the learned writers nowe but also contrary to all learned antiquitie and contrarie to the practise of the Churche whilest there was any tollerable estate allowe of womens baptizing (a) De virgin velan Tertullian sayeth it is not permitted to a woman to speake in the Churche nor to teache or to baptize nor to do any worke of a man much lesse of a minister (b) Lib. de Baptis And in an other place although he do permit it to be done by Laye men in the time of necessitie as it is termed yet he giueth not that licence to the woman (c) Epiph. li. 1. contra haeres Epiphanius vpbraydeth Marcion that he suffred women to baptise And (d) Lib. Vbi de Phry gib Priscil in an other booke he derideth them that they made women Bishops And (e) Lib. 3. in an other booke he sayeth it was not graunted vnto the holy mother of Christe to baptise hir Sonne Io. Whitgifte M. Bucer speaketh not one woorde in this place of baptising by women but of priuate Baptisme which neyther Tertullian nor Epiphanius in these places by you alleaged do disallow Chap. 5. the. 10. Diuision T. C. Pag. 115. Lin. 6. 1. Li. de merit remis peccat 24. cap. Contra E pist Parmen lib. 2. 13. cap. Augustine although he were of that minde that children could not be saued without baptisme An vntruth yet in the time of necessitie as it is called he doth not allow eyther of baptisme in priuate houses or by women but when there was daunger the women hasted to carie the children vnto the Church and although he do seeme to allowe of the baptisme of a Lay man in the time of necessitie yet there also he mentioneth not womens baptisme And further he doubteth whether the childe shoulde be baptised againe which was baptised by a laye man Io. Whitgifte Where doth S. Augustine disallow baptising by women or in priuate houses he vttereth no suche thing in any of the places quoted in the margente Will you still counterfeit is there no ende with you of falsifying In his seconde booke contra Epistolam Parmeniani Cap. 13. he dothe not onely say that a lay man may baptise in the tyme of necessitie but he also addeth that if it be ministred without necessitie yet notwithstanding that it is baptisme as appeareth in these words as I haue before sayde But althoughe it be vsurped he meaneth baptisme by lay men without necessitie Aug. lib. 2. contra Epist. Parm. cap. 13. and is giuen of any man to any man that whiche is giuen can not be sayde not to be giuen althoughe it maye be rightly sayde that it is not lawfully giuen And he dothe make the same manyfest by two prety similitudes following whiche I omitte for to auoyde tediousnesse The learned Reader maye in that place of Augustine soone perceyue what an errour this is to saye that the Minister is of the substance and beeing of the Sacrament neyther dothe he in eyther of the places eyther disallowe baptisme by women or in priuate houses as you affirme but ad Fortunatum he saythe thus In Aug. ad Fortunatum necessitie when the Bishops or Priests or any other minister can not be founde and the daunger of him that requireth dothe constrayne least he shoulde departe this lyfe without this sacrament we haue heard that euen lay men haue giuen the sacrament that they haue receyued Chap. 5. the. 11. Diuision T.
Euensong neyther can they be brought to the contrarie and yet the prayers be not the worse so they call the day of Christes natiuitie Christmasse c. what is this to condemne the things themselues But you say this terme doth import nothing else than a banishment from the Church c. so might you say that these names Sunday Monday do import y t we dedicate those days to the Sunne Moone and so likewise might you say of the other names reteyned in the cōmon and vsuall speache but all men would then espie your folly euen as they may do nowe if they be disposed The absence of the woman after hir delyuerie is neyther banishment nor excommunication as you terme it but a withdrawing The true cause of the absence of the woman after hir deliuerāce of the partie from the Churche by reason of that infirmitie and daunger that God hath layde vpon woman kinde in punishment of the first sinne whiche daunger she knoweth not whether she shall escape or no and therefore after shee hath not onelye escaped it but also brought a childe into the worlde to the encrease of Gods people and after such tyme as the comelinesse of nature maye beare she commeth firste into The cause of hir thankesgiuing the Churche to giue thankes for the same and for the deliueraunce by Christe from that sinne whereof that infirmitie is a perpetuall testimonie And this being done not Iewishly but Christianly not of custome but of duty not to make the act of lawfull matrimonie vncleane but to giue thankes to God for deliueraunce from so manifolde perilles what Christian hearte can for the names sake thus disallowe of it as you doe The comming so neare the communion table is a verye small matter to carpe at it is thought to be the moste conuenient place both for the minister for the woman especially if she be disposed to receiue the holy Communion But such trifling quarrels argue an extreame penurie of good and substantiall reasons The paying of hir accustomed offrings which you séeme moste to mislike as your selfe confesse the meaning of the booke to be hath no such purpose and intent as you would make the Reader to beleue neither can it for she neither offereth Lambe Turtles or Leuit. 12 yong Pigeons as the lawe requireth but payeth to the Curate his accustomed dutie which both she may as lawfully giue and he receiue as the other tenthes may be payde and receyued It is a portion of the Pastors liuing appointed and limitted vnto hym by the Churche and therefore he may lawfully receiue it as it is appointed vnto him And all your obiections to the contrary are hereby answered fully Chap. 7. the. 2. Diuision Admonition In which booke a great number of things contrary to Gods worde are conteyned as Iewish (b) Act. 15. 10. purifyings c. Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 81. Sect. 4. The thirde is the Iewishe purifyings as you terme it you cite for that purpose Act. 15. where Peter speaking against certeyne of the Pharisies which beleued and taught that it was nedeful for the Gentiles which were conuerted to be circumcised and to obserue Moses lawe saith on this sorte Novve therefore vvhy tempte ye God Act. 15. to laye a yoke on the disciples neckes c. Howe any thing here conteined prohibiteth women after they be deliuered from the great danger and paynes of child bearing to giue in the congregation thankes for their deliuerance let the godly Reader iudge Surely this is no Iewishe purifying but Christian giuing of thankes most consonant and agreable to the worde of God But hereof also some thing more is to be spoken in an other place T. C. Pag. 119. lin 24. Nowe whereas M. Doctor sayth that the place of the 15. of the Actes alleaged by the Admonition maketh nothing against this he should haue considered that if it be a Iewyshe ceremony as they suppose it it is to be abolished vtterly For it being shewed there that all the Ceremonial law of Moses is done awaye through our Sauiour Christe this also a parte thereof muste needes be therein comprysed Io. Whitgifte The place nothing perteyneth to this purpose neither is giuing of thankes a Iewysh Ceremonie and therefore their supposition is but vayne Chap. 7. the. 3. Diuision T. C. Pag. 119. in the midst And whereas he sayth that it being nothing else but a thankesgiuing for hit deliuerance cannot be therefore but Christian and very godly I answere that if there should be solemne and expresse giuing of thankes in the Churche for euery benefite either equall or greater than this which any singular persone in the Churche doth receyue wee should not onelye haue no preaching of the Theod. li. 4 cap. 11. worde nor ministring of the Sacramentes but we shoulde not haue so much leysure as to doe any corporall or bodely worke but should be lyke vnto those heretykes which were called of the Syriake worde Messalians or continuall prayers and which did nothing else but praye Io. Whitgifte Truthe is neuer contrary vnto it selfe before you reproued the booke of Common prayer for want of thankesgiuing for benefites receiued and now you reproue it for appointing thankes to be giuen for deliuerance from sinne from manifolde perils Pag. 108. Sect. 3. and daungers and for the encrease of Gods people all which things are publike although thankes be giuen by a priuate person for in dede the punishmēt and daunger layde vpon all womankinde for disobedience is not onely common but very notorious and a perpetuall testimonie of our subiection vnto synne and therefore requireth a solemne thankesgiuing at such time as it pleaseth God to shewe his mercie therein and to deliuer from ill And yet if it were not so where reade you that any priuate persone is forbidden to giue thankes in the publike congregation for some especiall benefit receiued namely if the Churche thinke it conuenient and agrée thervnto as it doth to this Theodoret sayth that the Messalian heretikes had these errours firste they being The errors of the Messalians Theod. lib. 4. cap. 11. possessed with a Deuill which they thought to be the holy spirite did condemne all bodily labour as wicked secondly they being giuen to much sleepe did name the visions of their dreames prophesies thirdly they sayde that the supper of the Lorde and Baptisme did neither good nor harme to any man fourthlye when they were charged with such things they would not stande to them but impudently deny them last of all they taught that euery man when he is borne doth take of his parentes as the nature so likewyse the seruitude of Deuils which being driuen out by diligēt praier the holy spirit entred in c. This is all that Theodoret in that place reporteth of those heretikes the which howe much it maketh against either diligent or continual prayers Luc. 18. Rom. 12. Epbe. 6. Coll. 4. or thankesgiuing for
iudgement what shall become of suche as not onely not preache themselues but deface other men that preache by backbiting and slaundering and spreading abrode false rumours vpon them to discredite both their persons and doctrine and with sectes schismes rent in péeces the Church of Christ and violently plucke downe whatsoeuer other men haue builded O. T. C. these things would be considered in time The seconde Diuision T. C. Pag. 123. Sect. 2. And heere M. Doctor taketh occasion to vtter his stomacke agaynste London ▪ flynging of one syde agaynste the women of the other syde agaynste the Ministers whose diligence bycause it maketh M. Doctors negligence more to appeare as a darke and dus she colour matched with that whiche is cleare and lightsome he doth goe aboute to deface with the vntrue and slaunderous surmyse of loose negligente and vnprofitable preachyng If there be some one such or two in London t is too greate iniurie therefore to charge indefinitely the companye of the ministers of London Besydes that M. Doctor dothe not see howe fyrste he accuseth the ▪ Bishop or euer he beaware bothe in ordeyning suche ministers and not in reforming them beyng so farre out of order and then the Archbishop whiche doth not require this disorder at the Bishops hande 〈◊〉 as he sayeth this is so godlie and heauenly an order to haue one Bishop ouer many ministers and one Archebishop ouer dyuers ▪ Bishops and if we shall esteeme the pythinesse and fastnesse of preachyng ▪ by the frutes as by the knowledge and sear ▪ of God in the people of London and by faythfull and true hearts toward the Prince and the Realme I thynk that that which he termeth 〈◊〉 loose and vnprofitable preachyng wit fal out to be waightyer and to leaue a deeper printe behynde them than those monethly sermons whyche he speaketh of And tte Ministers of London better ministers whiche preache twice a day than those whiche make the words of God nouell and daynties and as M. Latimer pleasantly sayd Strawberies commyng only at certayne tymes of the yeare Io. Whitgifte I speake fyrste of the Authours of the Admonition Then I reporte M. Whithead his saying of dyuers preachers in London whiche if you coulde haue improued I thynke you woulde I knowe there be manye graue learned wyse and go re Preachers in London whyche haue greately profited that place and as instrumentes haue wroughte those good effectes you speake of in the heartes of many But I knowe also there be some others farre vnlyke vnto them in all respects who by their vndiscreate and loose dealyng haue as muche as yeth in them wroughte the contrarie If they haue bene suffered eyther throughe the negligence of Archebishop or Bishop I excuse neyther of them I thinke they haue good cause to take better héed hereafter Touching the women of London I haue not sayde any thyng to their disprayse I knowe a number verie honeste and godlie and I knowe none that is euyll Onely I require that modestie in some of them that beséemeth sober matrones and women pro essyng the Gospell It is not séemely for a woman to speake in the Churche no not that whiche is good muche lesse comely is it for hir to sc lde openly in the streates or to be a common deprauer of others at tables and other meetings There is no cause why I shoulde beare a stomacke 〈◊〉 London whiche place I haue alwayes honoured where I haue many friendes to the whych I haue shewed as many tokens of good will as any one man of my abilitie But if I admonishe some of the Citezens and bidde them take héede that they abuse not the Gospell to serue theyr affections that they make it not a cloke for theyr contentions that they waxe not wearie of it and desire straunge Doctrines that they heape not vp suche Preachers vnto themselues as maye serue theyr humours that they shewe themselues more thankfull for the Gospell the whyche they haue so long receyued that they studye for peace and quietnesse that they grieue not the Prince in séekyng alterations by whome they enioy the pure worde of God true vse of his Sacramentes and syncers woorshyppyng of hym To be shorte if I moue them to brotherly loue true obedience to theyr Superiours and hatred of sectes and schismes whervnto diuers of them be too much drawne by such as you are Do I vtter my stomacke agaynst them If eyther they or you take it so ▪ then I answere that I must obey God rather than man and preferre my Prince before all my friendes But this is a péece of your Rhetorike to drawe into hatred which I doubt not the godlie will easyly espie and iudge of your spirite accordingly The thirde Diuision Admonition Nay some in the fulnesse of their blasphemie haue sayde it that muche preachyng bryngeth the worde of God into contempt and that foure preachers were inough for all London so farre are they from thinking it necessarie seeking that euery congregation should haue a faithfull pastor Answere to the Admonition Pag. 167. Sect. 2. 3. If any haue mislyked often preachyng or hane sayde that muche Uerball preachers preachyng bryngeth the worde of God into contempte or that foure preachers were inough for all London they are to be blamed and that iustely and not the booke for it willeth no man to say so But if any hath sayd that some of those which vse to preach often by their loose negligente verball and vnlearned Sermons haue brought the worde of God into contempte or that foure godlie learned pithy diligent and discreete preachers might do more good in London than fortie contentious vnlearned verball and rashe Preachers they haue sayde truely and their saying myghte well be iustifyed Howbeit take heede that you slaunder no man or vniustly seeke the discredite of any whylest you seeke to vtter youre malice against that godlie booke None that fauoureth Gods word as I thinke denyeth that hearing the worde of God is the vsuall and ordinarie meanes whereby God vseth to woorke faythe in vs And that therfore Preachers be necessarie T. C. Page 124. Lin. 10. Of this thing M. Doctor speaketh agayne in the. 167. page but to this effect altogether and almoste in the same wordes Io. Whitgifte And yet is there somthing there that would haue bin answered but I take that as graunted whiche is not answered The fourth Diuision Admonition The seuententh and eightenth Then nothing taught but Gods word now princes pleasures mēs deuises Popish ceremonies and Antichristian rites in publike pulpits defended Then they sought (p) Phil. 2. 20. 21. them now they seeke theyrs Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 84. Sect. 3. 4. 5. It had bin wel to let vs vnderstand what those Princes pleasures The Churche of Englande slaundered by the Admonitors be what mens deuises what Popish ceremonies what Antichristiā rites for nowe you haue but slandered both the Prince the whole state of religion in this
of your profession shoulde be ignorant in the nature and definition of a Sacrament A Sacrament I meane not in the largest signification but as it is properly vsed and as we call the Lordes Supper and Baptisme Sacramentes For Sacramentes in the proper signification be mysticall signes ordeyned by God himselfe consisting in the worde of The proper signification of sacraments God in figures and in things signified whereby he keepeth in mannes memorie and sometymes renueth his large benefites bestowed vpon his Church whereby also he sealeth or assureth his promises and sheweth outwardly and as it were layeth before oure eyes those things to beholde which inwardly he worketh in vs yea by them he strengthneth and increaseth our fayth by the holy Ghost working in our heartes And to be short by his Sacramentes he separateth vs from all other people from all other religions consecrating vs and binding vs to him onely and signifyeth what he requyreth of vs to be done Nowe euerie ceremonie signifying any thing hath not these conditions and propertyes Euery signifying ceremonie is not a acrament Wherefore euerie ceremonie signifying any thing is not a Sacrament and therefore crossing in Baptisme though it signifyeth some thing yet it is no Sacrament The allegory of sitting is dombe and speaketh nothing but to the signe of the crosse is added the signification in expresse woordes as I haue before declared wherefore there is more cause to condemne the one than there is to cōdemne the other More uer sitting at the Lordes supper hath not bene vsed in the Churche that I can reade of but crossing in baptising hath wherefore that were to inuent a newe Ceremonie and this is to reteyne the olde so that the reason of their allegorie and of this Ceremonie is not lyke Of refusing yle in baptisme the Churche hath iust cause and it vseth hir libertie in reteyning crossing neyther will it burden the Sacramentes with a multitude of vnnecessary and vnprofitable Ceremonies and yet reteyne such as shall be thought moste conuenient Chap. 3. the. 7. Diuision T. C. Pag. 137. Lin. 3. And to conclude I see no cause why some crosses should be vnlawefull and other some commendable and why it should be a monument of Popery in woode and metall and yet a Christian badge in the forehead of a man why we should not lyke of it in streates and hyghewayes and yet allowe of it in the churche Io. Whitgifte As there is great difference betwixt the paynting of an Image to sette foorth an historie and placing of it in the Churche to be worshipped so is there also as great difference or more betwixt crossing a childe in the forehead at the time of baptisme with expressing the cause and vse of it and the placing of crosses in Churches or highways and streates The crossing of the childes forehead is but for a moment the crosse of wood and stone remayneth and continueth the crosse in the childes forehead is not made to be adored and worshipped neyther was euer any man so madde as to imagine any such thing of it but the crosses in churches streates and highwayes of mettall and woode were erected to be worshipped and were so accordingly and therefore there is no like perill in the one as there is in the other ¶ Of the parties that are to be Baptised Chap. 4. The first Diuision Admonition ▪ That the parties to be baptised if they be of the yeares of (p) Math. 6. discretion by them selues and in their owne persones or if they be infantes by theyr parentes in whose rooine if vpon necessary occasion they be absent some one of the congregation knowyng the good behauiour and sounde faythe of the par tes may both make rehersall if theyr faythe and also if their fayth be sounde agreable to holy scriptures desyre to be in the same baptised And finally that nothyng be done in this or any other thing but that which you haue the expresse warrant of Gods worde for Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 111. Sect. 1. 2. I muse what you meane to saye on this sorte The parties to be baptised Of those that are to be baptised if they be of the yeares of discretion c. You knowe that in this Church of England none tarry for baptisme so long except it be in some secrete congregation of Anabaptistes The place alledged out of the third of Matthew telleth how they that were baptised cōfessed their sinnes it speaketh nothing of any confession of faith It is well that you admitte some to answere for the infant in the Of the parēts answering or their children absence of the parent and why not in his presence to what scripture haue you that the Parent at the baptising of his childe should make a rehersall of his fayth and desire that his childe should bee therein baptised this I desire to knowe for myne owne learning for I neither remember any such thing in scripture neither yet in any auncient wryter I do herein but desire to be instructed T. C. Pag. 139. Lin. 6. And bicause I would haue all those thyngs togither that touche this matter of baptisine I come to that which he hath in the next Section and in III. page where after his olde manner he wrangleth and quarrelleth For although the Admonition speaketh so playnely and so clearely that as Hesiod sayth it myght 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 satisfie Momus yet M. Doctor goeth about there to bryng it in suspicion of Anabaptisme bicause allowing in playne wordes the baptisme of infantes they adde that if the parties be of discretion and yeares them selues in their own persons should demaunde to be baptised For sayth he in this Church they tary not for baptisme so long But is ther no cause or may there not be when they that be of age may be baptised It may be there are Iewes in Englande which vnderstanding their blyndnes and confessing their synne may desyre to be baptised and here be dyuers Mores in noble mens gentlemens houses which are sometimes brought to the knowledge of Christe whereby th re is some vse and practise of this case Io. Whitgifte Anabaptisme being so crafty an heresy that it dissembleth many things vntill it Anabaptisme a crafty heresy haue sufficient ayde a man can not be to suspicious of it especially in those that walke in steppes so lyke vnto it And yet I speake nothing in that place that may bryng the A thours of the Admonition into suspicion of Anabaptisme vnlesse they suspect them selues or that you would haue them suspected for you knowe the olde prouerbe Conscius ipse sibi c. It may be in deede that there be Iewes in Englande Mores Turkes 〈◊〉 and that some of them being conuerted to the fayth be afterward baptised and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it is so but the case is very rare and there is no man that doubteth but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to be examined in their fayth before they be admitted to