damnationem quia primam fidem irritam fecerunt Incurring damnation because they haue broken their first promise Againe in the first yeare of our gratious Queene the Acte of Parliament for making and consecrating of Bisshoppes made the .28 of kinge Henrye was reuiued And yet the Bisshoppes were ordered not accordinge to the acte but according to an acte made in kinge Edwarde his dayes and repelled by Quene Marye and not reuiued the sayde first yeare And yf they will say that that defecte is nowe supplied let them yet remember that they are but parliament and no Churche Bisshoppes and so no Catholike Bisshoppes as being ordered in such manner and fasshion as no Catholike Church euer vsed But thys is most to be considered and to be lamented of all thinges that wheras no Acte of Parliament can geue anye sufficient warrant to discharge a man from the Catholike faythe and wheras yt was aswel in king Hēries dayes by Acte of Parliament as euer before through out all Churches of Christendome sithens we were christened taken for playne and open heresie to denie the reall presence of Christes bodye in the Sacramente of the aulter for maynteining of the which heresie there is no acte of Parliamēt God be thancked neither of king Edwardes tyme nor in the tyme of our graciouse soueraygne Ladie and Quene that nowe is yet doe these men teache and preache and by writing defend and maynteine the saied greate and abhominable heresie with many other for the which they can shewe no warrante of anye temporall or spirituall lawe that euer hath bene made in Englande All this haue I spoken to shewe it is most true that I haue saied that there will neuer be redresse of errour and heresie or any staie where men are once gone from the vnitie of the See Apostolike which is the welspring and fountaine of all vnitie in the Catholike faith And touching this question of the Supremacie that we haue in hand if we wel consider it we shall find that we doe not agree either with the other Protestantes or with our selues For in this pointe that we make the Prince the supreme head of the Churche we neither agree with Luther him selfe or his scholers which denie this primacie nor with Caluin and his scholers the Sacramentaries Caluin saieth They were blasphemers that called King Henrie head of the Church One of his scholers Iacobus Acontius in a booke dedicated to the Queenes Mai. blameth openly the ciuil magistrate that maketh him selfe the Iudge of controuersies or by the aduise of other commaundeth this doctrine to be published that to be suppressed Nowe some of Caluins scholers and our owne countriemen haue taken forth such a lesson that they haue auouched in their bookes printed and publisshed to the world that a woman can neither be head of the Church nor of any Realme at all Againe manie of the Protestants though they will not the Pope should haue the chiefe gouernement because they like not his true doctrine yet they thinke it meete and conuenient that there be some one person ecclesiasticall that maie haue this supreme gouernement for matters of the Church It is also to be considered that the wordes of the Othe nowe tendered for the mainteining of the Princes Supremacie are other then they were in King Henries or King Edwardes daies with a certaine addition of greatest importance and such as to a ciuil Prince specially to the person of a woman can in no wise be with any conuenient sense applied I meane of these wordes Supreme Gouernour aswell in all spirituall or ecclesiasticall thinges or causes as temporall Such large and ample wordes were in neither of the foresaied Kings times put into the Othe And yet had they bene more tolerable in their persons for that men be capable of spiritual gouernmēt frō the which a woman is expresly by nature and by scripture excluded then they are nowe These wordes are such I saie as can not with any colourable pretext be excused Neither is it inough to saie as the Iniunctions doe that the Quenes Maiestie entendeth not to take more vpon her then King Henrie her father or King Edward her brother did what so euer that were more or lesse but it must be also considered what she or her Successours may take vpon her or them by the largenes of these wordes for an Iniunction can not limit an Acte of Parliament and whether there be any either Scripture or other good doctrine ecclesiastical sufficient to satisfie their consciences that refuse especially this Othe Which doth not only as it did before exclude the Apostolical See and all Generall Councelles also as though not in plaine wordes yet in effect in excluding the ecclesiastical Authoritie of al foren persons and Prelates but doth further adioyne the foresaied newe addition lesse probable and lesse tolerable then was any other parte of the former Othe And therefore certaine Protestants of some name and reputation being tendred this Othe by commission haue refused it Yea and how well trow you is this supreme Gouuernement liked of those Ministers which withstand the Quenes iniunctions touching the order of semely Apparell c Thus ye perceyue that as we are gone from the constante and setled doctrine of the Church touching this primacy so we agree not no not among our selues either in other pointes or in thys very Article of the Supremacy Neither shal we euer fynd anie cause of good and sufficiente contentation or constancye in doctrine vntill we returne thither from whence we first departed that is to the See Apostolike Which of al other people our Nation hath euer most reuerenced and honoured and ought of al other most so to doe As from whence both the Britaines and Saxons receiued first the Christian faith This returne God of his mercie graunt vs when it shall be his blessed pleasure Amen In Louaine the last of September An. 1567. Thomas Stapleton ¶ An Aduertisement to the Lerned Reader TOuching certain Authors alleaged in this Reply about matters of our own Countre it is to be vnderstanded that of certayne writen Copies not yet printed which we haue vsed as of Henricus Huntingtonensis and Gulielmus Neubrigensis or Noueoburgensis or Neoburgensis many thinges are in the said Copies which seme not to be writen of thē but of Some others As in the Copie of Henricus Huntingtonensis certayne thinges are founde which seme not to be writen of him but to haue bene gathered out of his workes and to haue bene writen by some other whom we coniecture to be Simeon Dunelmensis Also in the Copie of our Neubrigensis many thinges are added both at the beginning and at the ende which seme not to haue ben writen by Neubrigensis him self but by some other And that which is added at the beginning was writen as we vnderstand nowe of one Alphredus Beuerlacensis who liued vnder king Steuen The additions which do followe who wrote we yet knowe not except it were Roger Houeden This I
Supremacy to rest in the Clergy ād not in the Prince which must obey as well as the other And therefore it is not true that ye saye that M. Fekenhams cause is no deale holpen by this place nor your assertion any thing improued But let vs steppe one steppe farder with you M. Horne vpō the groūd of your present liberalytye lest as you haue begonne you pinche vs yet farder and take away all together from Bishops and Priestes Subiection you say and obedience to the word of God taught and preached by the Bishops c. is commaūded so wel to Princes as to the inferiour sort of the people If so M. Horne howe did a lay parliament vtterly disobey the doctrine of all their Bishoppes and enacte a new contrary to theirs What obediēce was there in that parliament so expressely required here by S. Paule and so dewe euen of Princes them selues as you confesse to their Bishoppes Will you say the Bishoppes then preached not Gods worde And who shal iudge that Shal a lay parliament iudge it Is that the obedience dewe to Bishoppes In case al the Bishops of a realme erred is there not a generall Councell to be sought vnto Are there not other Bishops of other Coūtries to be coūseled Is not al the Church one body In matters of faithe shal we seuer our selues frō our Fathers ād Brethern the whole corps of Christēdome beside by the vertue of an Acte passed by lay mē onely No bishops no Clerke admitted to speake and say his minde O lamentable case God forgeue our dere Countre this most haynouse trespasse Then the which I feare our Realme committed not a more greuous except the first breache in Kinge Henries dayes these many hundred yeares Yet one steppe farder The Prince must obey and be fedde at the Bishoppes hande you confesse What is that Is it not he must learne howe to beleue and howe to serue God Is it not the pastorall office as S Augustin teacheth to open the springes that are hidden and to geue pure and sounde water to the thirsty shepe Is not the shepeheardes office to strenghthen that is weake to heale that is sicke to binde that is broken to bringe home againe that is caste away to seke that is loste and so forthe as the Prophet Ezechiel describeth And what is all this but to teache to correct to instructe to refourme and amende all such thinges as are amisse either in faithe or in good life If so then in case the realme went a stray shoulde not they redresse vs which were pastours and shepheards in Christes Church If our owne shepheards did amisse was there in all Christendom no true Bishoppes beside no faithfull pastour no right shepeheard Verely S. Augustine teacheth at large that it is not possible that the shepheards shoulde misse of the true doctrine What soeuer their life or maners be But put the case so that we may come to an issewe Must then the Prince fede vs alter our Religion sett vp a newe stop the shepheards mouthes plaie the shepheard him self Is this M. Horne the obedience that you teach Princes to shew to their shepheards God forgeue them that herein haue offended and God in whose hands the harts of Princes are inspire with his blessed grace the noble hart of our most gracious Souerain the Quenes Maiesty that her highnes may see and consider this horrible and deadly inconuenience to the which your most wicked and blasphemouse doctrine hath induced her grace You are the woulfe M. Horne And therfore no marueile if you procure to tie the shepheard fast and to mousell the dogges The .158 Diuision Pag. 97. b. M. Fekenham And when your L. shall be able to proue that these wordes of Paule Mulieres in Ecclesijs taceant c. Let the wemen kepe silence in the Churche for it is not permitted vnto them there to speake but let them liue vnder obedience like as the Law of God appointeth thē and if they be desirous to learne any thing let them aske their husbands at home for it is a shameful and rebukeful thing for a woman to speake in the Church of Christ. When your L. shal be able to proue that these wordes of Paule were not as wel spoken of Quenes Duchesses and of noble Women as of the meane and inferiour sorte of Women like as these wordes of almightie God spoken in the plague and punishment first vnto our mother Eue for her offence and secondarily by her vnto al women without exception vidz Multiplicabo aerumnas c. I shal encrease thy dolours sorowes and conceiuings and in paine and trauaile thou shalt bring forth thy children thou shalt liue vnder the authority power of thy husbād and he shal haue the gouernment and dominion ouer thee Whan your L. shall be able to proue anye exception to be made eyther in these woordes spoken in the olde lawe by the mouth of God eyther in the wordes before spoken of the Apostle Paule in the newe than I shall in like māner yeelde and with most humble thankes thinke my selfe very well satisfied in conscience not onely touching all the afore alleaged testimonies but also in this seconde chiefe pointe M. Horne I doe graunte the vvoordes of the holie Scriptures in bothe these places to be spoken to al states of vvomen vvithout exception But vvhat make they for your purpose hovve doe they conclude and confirme your cause VVomen muste be silent in the Churche and are not permitted to speake That is as your ovvne Doctour Nicolaus de Lyra expoundeth it women muste not teache and preache the doctrine in the Churche neyther dispute openlye Therefore our Sauiour Christe dyd not committe to Kinges Queenes and Princes the Authoritie to haue and take vppon them .538 anye parte of gouernement in Ecclesiasticall causes As .539 though a younge Nouice of your Munkishe ordre shoulde haue argued Nunnes muste keepe silence and maye not speake in the Cloysture nor yet at Dynner tyme in the fraytrie therefore your deceyuer the Pope dyd not committe Authoritie to his Prouincialles Abbottes Priores and Prioresses to haue and take vppon them the gouernement vnder hym selfe in Munkishe and Nunnishe causes and matters VVhat man vvoulde haue thought Maister Feckēham to haue had so .540 little consideration although vnlearned as to vouche the silence of vvomen in the Churche for a reason to improue the Authoritie of Princes in Churche causes The .3 Chapter Of M. Fekenhams third reason taken out of S. Paule also .1 Cor. 14. Stapleton MAister Feckenham his thirde reason is that women are not permitted to speake in the Church and therefore they can not be the heads of the Church To this M. Horn answereth first that this place of S. Paul must be vnderstanded of teaching preaching and disputing and that therfore it wil not follow thereof that they may not take vpō thē any gouernment in Ecclesiastical causes And then being merily
Church when fewe or no princes were christened the princes when they first receiued the fayth finding this iurisdiction in the Church so lefte yt and did rather encrease and amplify it theÌ„ in any part diminish the same The statute sayth that the prince is supreame head in al causes ecclesiastical by the statute also all iurisdictioÌ„ ecclesiastical is vnited and annexed to the crowne of the realm Ye say the statute must be takeÌ„ as the words lye Verbatim without any exception What then in the worlde may be thought more contrarie or repugnante either to the wordes of the statute or your own then when ye say For NomaÌ„ hath Authoritie to excommunicat but onely the Church Which is to say This power of excommunication belongeth to the Church only and not to the Prince adding also as a reason the prince hath no authority to excommunicate Is not this also a manifest derogatioÌ„ and impayring of the prerogatiue royal touching matters Ecclesiastical to imbarre the Prince al authority of excommunication May not M. Fekenham here returne wel vpon you your own wordes What sauftie meane ye to her person when ye bereue the same of a principall parte of her royal power What quietnes sâ—ke you to her parson when ye goe aboute to bring the subiectes to a misliking of her royall power which is a preparation of rebellion against her parson Nowe what cosonage this opinion yf ye obstinately mainteyne it hath with heresie the holy scripture may witnesse What commission had S. Paule of the Churche when he excommunicated the fowle fornicatour at Corinthe What is the rodde that he threatneth the Corinthians withal but this excoÌ„munication By what commission of the Church did he either excommunicate Himeneus and Alexander or denounce Anathema to him that loued not our Lord Iesus Christ What commissioÌ„ had S. Peter when Ananias and Saphira by him excommunicated died forthwith What commissioÌ„ had al the Bishops sythens namely Innocentius the Pope that excommunicated themperour Arcadius And S. Ambrose that excommunicated the Emperor Theodosius with a thowsand other that denounced excommunication without any such false imagined commission After your diuisioÌ„ fantastically by you framed ye come to the definitioÌ„ of Cohibitiue iurisdictioÌ„ wherin ye do not so much misse of your authors words as of his opeÌ„ meaniÌ„g comprehending vnder this general definition aswell excoÌ„munication as any other matter Neither are you contente to tel vs Delphinus definition but of your large liberalitye you adde an other neadlesse out of Quintinus but so that after your wont ye infarse of your own that all authoritye to iudge disceÌ„deth from the prince alone Which thing Quintinus saith not of Ecclesiastical but of temporal iurisdictioÌ„ as we haue declared before And therefore when ye infer by vertue of this iurisdiction saith Anthonius the Church ministers c. meaniÌ„g by the iurisdictioÌ„ coÌ„ming froÌ„ the Prince only ye lewdly lie aswel vpoÌ„ Anthonius as Quintinus For neither of them saith so but both the quite coÌ„trary Wherof doth follow that al that which ye reherse immediatlie as out of Quitinus nothing furthereth your pretensed supremacy And in case yt did as ye haue hitherto playde the peuishe and theuishe Cacus with your authours to blemish the Popes so now play you the like pageant to blemish the PriÌ„ces iurisdictioÌ„ For in the midle of your own allegatioÌ„ ye haue pared away certain words touching the foresaid excoÌ„munication In your author M. Horn after thefe words to confirme matters determined in the synod or councel followeth to excoÌ„municat and to reconcile to the Church excoÌ„municat parsons duely repenting to reserue cases and to release cases reserued to geue pardoÌ„s to chauÌ„ge and mitigate aÌ„d so forth as in your allegatioÌ„ is coÌ„tained After this ye say that this cohibitiue iurisdictioÌ„ may be exercised by such as are no priests I grauÌ„t you but what is that for your purpose For as your Authour sayeth so euen so he sayeth that at the leaste he muste haue the clericall tonsure or crowne without the which though he were a religiouse professed man he could not exercise this iurisdiction And this is a good and a sufficient argument if you will stande to your own Author Anthonius Delphinus why neither you nor your fellowes may lawfully practise any spirituall iurisdiction Farder the very next Chapter in this Antonius of whom M. Horne hath alleaged so much consisteth only in prouing that this seconde Cohibytiue Iurisdiction is in the Churche by Gods ordonaunce not by the Commission of Emperours And this he proueth expressely against such as M. Horne himselfe is I meane against the scholers of Luther against the present protestants of our daies calling their opinion and M. Hornes assertion here Impium errorem A wicked errour And thought Maister Horne to proue by the same Antonius in the next Chapter before that the second Cohibytiue iurisdiction depended of Princes Commission which in the Chapter following he doth of sette purpose confute O what is Impudency yf this be not M. Horne The .163 Diuision pag. 106. You tooke vpon you to proue that this .571 seconde kinde of Cohibitiue Iurisdiction vvith the appurtenances thereof as I haue rehersed vvas appointed by the expresse vvord of God immediatlie to Bisshoppes and Priestes vvithout further commission of Princes or other povver vvhich I denied Novve lette vs consider the force of your proufes and see hovve thei coÌ„clude your cause First yee saie that the woordes of the first parte of the Othe doe by expresse woordes of the Acte geue vnto the Q. highnes all maner of iurisdictions priuileges and preeminences in any wise touching and concerning any Spiritual or Ecclesiastical iurisdiction within the realme with an expresse debarre and flat denial made of al Spiritual iurisdiction vnto the Bishops therof to be exercised ouer their flockes and cures without her highnes special commission to be graunted therevnto they hauing by the expresse word of God commission of spiritual gouernment ouer them Your .572 euil dealing vvith the vvordes of the Acte of the Othe expresseth an vnkindely meaning to the Prince and the state for that either the Acte or the Othe debarreth or denieth expressely or conuertly the to Bishops of this realme to exercise ouer theyr flockes and cures vvithout her highnes special commission graunted thereto any spirituall iurisdiction assigned to a Bishoppe by the vvorde of God is altogether .573 vntrue The Statute geueth or rather restoreth to the Prince Iurisdiction and Authority to enquire after vvhat sorte the Ecclesiasticall state and personnes behaue them selues in their cures and chardges to refourme and corecte the disorders negligencies and enormities â—isinge amongeste them to the hinderaunce of theyr Office in theyr cures and chardges and in summe to order and prouide that they doe execute theyr Office accordinge to theyr calling in theyr cures and chardges This is not to debarre or denie theÌ„ the exercise of theyr office vvithout
A COVNTERBLAST TO M. HORNES VAYNE BLASTE AGAINST M. Fekenham Wherein is set forthe A ful Reply to M. Hornes Answer and to euery part therof made against the Declaration of my L. Abbat of Westminster M. Fekenham touching The Othe of the Supremacy By perusing vvhereof shall appeare besides the holy Scriptures as it vvere a Chronicle of the Continual Practise of Christes Churche in al ages and Countries frō the time of Constantin the Great vntil our daies Prouing the Popes and Bisshops Supremacy in Ecclesiastical causes and Disprouing the Princes Supremacy in the same Causes By Thomas Stapleton Student in Diuinitie Athanas. in Epist. ad solita vitā agentes pag. 459. When was it heard from the creation of the worlde that the Iudgement of the Churche should take his authoritie from the Emperour Or when was that taken for any iudgement Ambr. lib. 5. epist. 32. In good sooth if we call to minde either the whole course of Holy Scripture or the practise of the auncient times passed who is it that can deny but that in matter of faith in matter I saie of faith Bisshops are wont to iudge ouer Christian Emperours not Emperours ouer Bisshops LOVANII Apud Joannem Foulerum An. 1567. Cum Priuil REgiae Maiestatis Gratia Speciali Concessum est Thomae Stapletono Anglo librum inscriptum A Counterblaste to M. Hornes Vaine Blaste c. per aliquem Typographorum admissorum tutò liberè imprimendum curare publicè distrahere nullo prohibente Datum Bruxellis .27 Maij Anno. 1567. Subsig Pratz TO M. ROBERT HORNE THOMAS STAPLETON VVISHETH Grace from God and true repentance of al Heresies IF the natural wisedome and foresight M. Horne described of our Sauiour in the Gospel by a parable had bene in you at what tyme you first set penne to paper to treate of the Othe of Supremacy you would not I suppose so rashly haue attempted an enterprise of such importance The Parable saith VVho is it amonge you that minding to build a Castle sitteth not doune first and reckoneth vvith him self the charges requisit thereunto to see if he be able to bring it to passe lest that hauing layed the foundation and then not able to make an ende al that see him begin to laugh him to scorne saying beholde this man beganne to builde but he hath not bene able to make an ende The matter you haue taken in hande to proue is of such and so greate importaunce as no matter more nowe in Controuersie It is the Castle of your profession The keye of your doctrine The principal forte of all your Religion It is the piller of your Authority The fountaine of your Iurisdiction The Ankerholde of all your proceedinges Without the right of this Supreme Gouernement by you here defended your cause is betrayed your doctrine dissolueth your whole Religion goeth to wracke The wante of this Right shaketh your Authoritye stoppeth your Iurisdiction and is the vtter shipwracke of all your Procedings Againe it toucheth you say the prerogatiue of the Prince It is the only matter which Catholikes stand in by parliamēt enacted by booke Othe required vpō greate penalty refused Other matters in cōtrouersy whatsoeuer are not so pressed Thirdly you haue takē vpon you to persuade so great a matter first to a right lerned and reuerēt Father in priuat cōferēce and next to al the realme of Englād by publishing this your Answer as you cal it The weightier the matter is and the more confidently you haue taken it vpō you the more is it looked for and reason would that you did it substantially lernedly ād truly and before you had entred to so great a worke to haue made your reckoning how you might bring it to perfection But now what haue you don Haue you not so wrought that all your faire building being cleane ouerthrowen mē beginne as the Ghospell saieth to laughe you to scorne saying Beholde this man beganne a great matter but beinge not able to finishe it he is fayne to breake of You will say These be but woordes of course and a certain triumphe before the Victory Haue I not groūded this work of myne vpō the foundatiō of holy Scriptures Haue I not posted it vp with the mighty stronge pillers of the most learned Fathers Haue I not furnished it with a ioyly variety of Stories deducted from al the most Christian Emperours Kinges and Princes of more then these .xij. hundred yeares Haue I not fensed it with inuicible rampars of most holy Councels both general and national And last of al haue I not remoued all such scruples and stayes of conscience as though it were brambles and briers out of the waye to make the passage to so fayre a Forte pleasant easy and commodious You haue in dede M. Horne in owtwarde shewe and countenance sette a gay gloriouse and glistering face vppon the matter A face I say of holy Scriptures of Fathers of the Canon the Ciuill and the lawe of the Realme of manye Emperours Kinges and Princes for proufe of a continuall practise of the like Supremacye nowe by Othe to the Q. Highnes attributed in the auncient Churches of England Fraunce Germany Spayne Italy Grece Armenia Moscouia Aethyopia But all is but a Face in dede and a naked shewe without Substāce of Truth and matter It is like to the Aples and grapes and other fruits of the countrey of Sodome and Gomorre which growing to a full rypenes and quantitye in sight seeme to the eye very faire and pleasant but when a man cometh to plucke of them and to tast he shal finde them vnnaturall and pestilente and to smoder and smoke away and to resolue into ashes Such is the effect of your whole booke It beareth a countenance of truth of reason of learning But coming to the trial and examination of it I finde a pestilent ranke of most shamefull Vntruths an vnsauery and vaine kinde of reasoning and last of al the whole to resolue into grosse Ignorance For proufe hereof I wil shortly lay forth an abridgement of your whole demeanour And wherewith shal I better begin thē with the begīning and foundatiō of al sciēces and that is with grāmer it self Whereof I neuer heard or read in any man bearing the vocation that you pretēde either more grosse ignorance or which is more likely and much worse more shameful and malicious corruptiō You English Conuenit which is it is mete and conuenient into it ought which is the English of oportet not of conuenit You English Recensendam to be examined and confirmed where it signifieth ōly to be read or rehersed Item where your Author hath Priuilegia irrogare that is To geue priuileges you translate it quyte contrarye To take avvaye Priuileges Againe in the same Author pro quauis causa which is for euery cause you trāslate it for any cause as if it were pro qualibet or quacūque causa Al which foule shiftes of howe much importaunce they were I referre
Fekenhā meant otherwise then he durst plainly vtter or by his cūning could aunswer vnto M. Horne The 2. Diuision Vvherein I follovv the order of M. Fekenhams booke I make the proofes according to his request and besides my proofes foorth of the Scriptures the auncient Doctours the Generall Councels and Nationall I make proofe by the continual practise of the Church .3 in like gouernment as the Queenes Maiestie taketh vpon her and that by such Authors for a great sort of them as are the more to be credited in this matter for that they vvere most earnest fautors of the Romish sea infected as the times vvere vvith much superstitiō and did attribute vnto the see of Rome and so to the vvhole Clergie so much authoritie in Churche matters as they mighte and muche more then they ought to haue done Stapleton I wil not charge M Horne that his meaning is to ingraffe in the mindes of the subiectes a misliking of the Queenes Maiestie as though shee vsurped a power and autoritie in Ecclesiasticall maters whereto shee hath no right as he chargeth M. Fekenham withal vnlesse perchance he were of Councell with the holy brotherhode of Geneua for the Booke whereof we shall hereafter speake that spoyleth the Queenes Maiesty of al her authority as wel tēporal as spiritual and vnlesse he hath in opē sermō at VVinchester mainteined cōtrary to the Quenes ecclesiastical iniunctions such as would not reform their disordered apparel and that after he had put his hand as one of the Queenes cōmissioners to the redresse of the saied disorder And vnlesse he hath and doth maītein many things beside yea and cōtrary to the lawes and orders of the realm late set forth cōcerning maters ecclesiasticall as it is wel knowē and to be proued he hath don as wel in the defending of the Minister of Durley near the Manour of Bisshops Walthā refusing the saied order as otherwise But this may I boldy say and I doubt nothinge to proue it that in al his boke there is not as much as one worde of scripture one Doctour one councell generall or prouincial not the practise of any one countrey throwgh owte the worlde counted Catholike that maketh for such kinde of regiment as M. Horne avoucheth nor any one manner of proufe that hath any weight or pythe in the worlde to perswade I wil not say M. Fekenham but any other of much lesse witte learning and experience I say M. Horne commeth not ones nighe the principall matter and question wherein M. Fekenhā would and of right ought to be resolued I say further in case we remoue and sequester al other proufes on oure syde that M. Horn shal by the very same fathers councels and other authorities by him felfe producted so be ouerthrowen in the chief and capital question vnto the which he cometh not nighe as a man might say by one thowsande myles that his owne company may haue iuste cause to feare least this noble blaste so valiantly and skilfully blowen owte of M. Hornes trompet shall engender in the harts of all indifferent and discrete Readers much cause to mistruste more thē they did before the whol matter that M. Horne hath taken in hande to iustifie Wherefore as it is mete in al matters so is it here also cōueniēt and necessary to haue before thyne eyes good Reader the state and principal question controuersed betwene the parties standing in variance And then diligently to see how the proufes are of eche party applied for the confirming of their assertions There are therfore in this cause many things to be considered Firste that Christe lefte one to rule his whole Churche in his steade from tyme to tyme vnto the ende of the worlde Secondly that this one was Saint Peter the Apostle and now are the Bisshoppes of Rome his successours Thirdly that albeit the Bisshop of Rome had no such vniuersal gouernment ouer the whole yet that he is and euer was the patriarche of Englande and of the whole weste Church and so hath as muche to doe here as any other patriarche in his patriarkshippe Then that all were it that he had nothing to intermedle with vs nor as Pope nor as patriarche yet can not this supremacy of a ciuil prince be iustified whereof he is not capable especiallye a woman but it must remayne in some spiritual man Beside this the Catholikes say that as there was neuer any suche presidēte heretofore in the Catholike Churche so at this present there is no such except in England neither emonge the Lutherans the Zwinglians the Swenckfeldians or Anabaptistes nor any other secte that at this daye raygneth or rageth in the worlde None of these I saye agnise their cyuil prince as supreame gouernour in al causes spiritual and temporal Last of al I say and M. Fekenham wil also saye that euen M. Horne him selfe in this his answere retreyteth so farre backe from this assertion of supreame gouernment in all causes spirituall and temporall whiche is the state and keye of the whole question that he plucketh from the prince the chief and principal matters and causes ecclesiasticall as we shall here after plainely shewe by his owne woordes The premisses then being true and of owre syde abundantly proued and better to be proued as occasion shall serue as nothing can effectually be brought against them so M Horne as ye shal euidently perceiue in the processe stragleth quyte from al these points besetting himselfe all his study and endeuor to proue that which neither greatly hyndereth oure cause nor much bettereth his and for the which neither maister Fekenham nor any other Catholike will greatly contende with him whiche is when all is done that Princes may medle and deale with causes ecclesiasticall Which as it is in some meaning true so dothe yt nothing reache home to the pointe most to haue bene debated vpon And so is much labour vaynely and idlelye employed with tediouse and infynite talke and bablinge all from the purpose and owte of the matter whiche ought speciallye to haue bene iustifyed And therefore this is but an impudente facing and bragging to say that he hath proued the like regiment that we deny by the Fathers by the Councels and by the continual practise of the Churche Now it is worthy to see the iolye pollicy of this man and howe euen and correspondent it is to his fellowe protestants M. Iewel restrayneth the Catholikes to .600 yeres as it were by an extraordinary and newe founde prescription of his owne embarringe al Later proufes Yet he him selfe in the meane tyme runneth at large almoste one thowsande yeares Later shrynkinge hither and thyther taking tagge and ragge heretike and Catholik for the fortifying of his false assertions This wise trade this man kepeth also and to resolue M. Fekenham and setle his conscience he specially stayeth him self vpon Platina Nauclerus Abbas Vrspergensis Sabellicus Aeneas pius Volaterranus Fabian Polichronicon Petrus Bertrandus Benno
gouernment in .62 all manner causes either Temporal or Spiritual euen so the chiefest or beste parte of their Seruice or Ministery to consist in the vvel ordering of Church matters and their diligēt rule and care therein to be the moste thankefull acceptable and duetifull Seruice that they can doe or ovve vnto God The .19 Chapter Answering to the sayinges of Eusebius and Nicephorus touching Constantin and Emanuel Emperours Stapleton I See you not M. Horne come as yet nere the matter I see not yet that Constantin changed Religion plucked down aultars deposed bisshops c. But that he was diligent in defending the old and former faith of the Christiās If S. Paul cal the ciuil magistrat a minister because through feare he cōstraineth the wicked to embrace the godly doctrin as by your saying S. Chrysostom cōstrueth it we are wel cōtent therewith And withal that the best ministery and seruice of the great Constantin rested in the settinge forth of Christes true religion and that he preached the same with his Imperiall decrees and proclamations as ye oute of Eusebius recyte Neither this that ye here alleage out of place nor al the residewe which ye reherse of this Constantin with whose doings ye furnishe hereafter six ful leaues can importe this superiority as we shal there more at large specifie In the meane season I say it is a stark and most impudēt lye that ye say without any prouf Cōstantin was taught of the bisshops that Princes haue the gouernment in al maner causes either tēporal or spirituall You conclude after your maner facingly and desperatlye without any proufe or halfe proufe in the worlde M. Horne The Diuision .24 Pag. 17. b For this .63 cause also Nicephorus in his Preface before his Ecclesiastical history doth compare .64 Emanuel Paleologus the Emperour to Constantin for that he did so neerly imitate his duetifulnes in ruling procuring and reforming religiō to the purenesse thereof VVhich among al vertues belōging to an Emperor is most seemely for the imperial dignity and doth expresse it most truely as Nicephorus saieth vvho maketh protestatiō that he saith nothing in the commendatiō of this Emperour for fauour or to flatter but as it vvas true in deede in him And so reherseth his .65 noble vertues exercised in discharge of his imperial duety tovvards God in Church matters saying to the Emperour who hath glorified God more and shewed more feruēt zele towards hī in pure religiō without feyning thā thou hast don who hath with such feruēt zeale fought after the most sincere faith much endaungered or clēsed again the holy Table whē thou sawest our true religion brought into perill with newe deuises brought in by cōterfaict and naughty doctrines thou diddest defende it most painfully and wisely Thou diddest shew thy selfe to be the mighty supreme and very holy anchour and stay in so horrible wauering and errour in matters beginning to fainte and to perish as it were with shipwrak Thou art the guid of the profession of our faith Thou hast restored the Catholik and Vniuersal Churche being troubled with new matters or opinions to the old state Thou hast banished frō the Church al vnlawful and impure doctrin Thou hast clēsed again with the vvord of trueth the tēple frō choppers and chaungers of the diuin doctrin and frō heretical deprauers thereof Thou hast been set on fier vvith a godly zeale for the diuine Table Thou hast established the doctrin thou hast made Cōstitutions for the same Thou hast entrēched the true religion vvith mighty defenses That vvhich vvas pulled dovvne thou hast made vp againe and haste made the same whole and sound again vvith a conueniēt knitting togeather of al the partes and mēbers to be shorte thou haste saith Nicephorus to the Emperour established true Religion and godlines vvith spiritual buttresses namely the doctrine and rules of the aūcient Father◠Stapleton Where ye say for this cause also c. This is no cause at all but it is vntrue as of the other Emperour Cōstantinus and much more vntrue as ye shall good reader straight way vnderstande But firste we will dissipate and discusse the myste that M. Horne hath caste before thyne eies and wherein him self walketh either ignorantly or maliciously or both Ye shal then vnderstande that among many other errours and heresies wherwith the Grecians were infected and poysoned they helde cōtrary to the Catholike faith that the holy ghost did not procede from the father and the sonne but from the father onely In which heresie they dwelt many an hundred yeare At the length abowte 300. yeares paste the Emperour of Grece called Michael Paleologus came to the generall Councell kepte at Lions Where the Grecians with the Latin Church accorded aswel in that point as for the Popes supremacy both in other matters and cōcerning the deuoluing of matters frō Grece to Rome by way of appeale This Michael being dead the Grecians reuolted to their olde heresie against the holy ghost and for the maliciouse spyte they had against the Catholike faith their Bisshops would not suffer him to be buried The author of the homely agaist Idolatry as it is entituled calleth this Emperour wrongfully Theodorum Lascarim and saieth most ignorantly and falsly that he was depriued of his Empire because in the Councel of Lions he relented and set vp images in Grece Whereas he was not put frō his Empire but from his royal burial as I haue said neither any word was moued in the said councell of Images nor any Images of newe by him were set vppe which had customably continued in the Greeke Churche manye hundred yeares before and so reuerently afterwarde continued euen till Constantinople was taken by the great Turke And yet this good antiquarye and chronographer will nedes haue the Grecians about a .700 yeares together with a most notorious lie to haue bene Iconomaches that is Image breakers Much other foolish blasphemouse babling is conteined in that Homilie Yea many other shamelesse lies are there to disgrace deface and destroy the Image of Christ and his Saints especially one Whereas he saith that the Emperour Valens and Theodosius made a Proclamation that no man shoulde painte or kerue the Crosse of Christ. And therevpon gaily and iolilye triumpheth vpon the Catholiques Whereas the Proclamation neither is nor was to restreine all vse of the Crosse but that it should not be painted or kerued vppon the ground Which these good Emperours not Valens for he was the valiaunt Capitaine and defendour of the Arrians but Valentinianus and Theodosius did of a great godly reuerence they had to the Crosse enact And yet as grosse as foule and as lowd liyng a fetche as this is M. Iewel walketh euē in the very same steppes putting Valens for Valentinian and alleaging this Edict as generall against al Images of the Crosse. And yet these Homilies the holy learned Homilies of the olde Fathers namely of Venerable Bede our
in al Ecclesiastical causes the supreme rule to Emperours is but a great vntruthe boldly auouched but no maner of way yet proued as hath bene declared nor hereafter to be proued as it shall by Gods grace appeare Againe that he saieth All Churche matters did depende of the Emperours and for witnesse thereof alleageth Socrates is an other no lesse vntruthe also For this prety syllable All is altogether M. Hornes and not Socrates pretely by him shifted in to helpe forwarde a naughty matter The very text alleaged by M. Horne hath not that worde nor speaketh not so generally But it is no rare matter with men of M. Hornes brotherhood to ouerreache their Authours and therefore the lesse to be wondered at though not the lesse to be borne with And to this place of Socrates I haue before answered in my Returne against M. Iewel That which foloweth out of Eusebius proueth M. Hornes purpose neuer a deale Except M. Horne thinke some waight to lye in those words where the Emperour is called a Common or Vniuersall Bisâ—hop as though we shoulde gather thereby that the Emperour was then as the Pope is nowe and hath allwaies bene Except these woordes helpe M. Hornes primacy nothing is there that wil helpe it reade and consider the place who listeth But as for these woordes what sense they beare no man better then Constantine him selfe by the report of the same Eusebius also can tell vs. Constantin in dede was called of Eusebius as a commoÌ„ bisshop that is as a common ouerseer by reason of his passing zele and singular diligence in furdering Gods true Religion But that he exercised therein no such supreme gouernement as M. Horne fancyeth neither made him selfe bisshop of bisshoppes but stayed him selfe within the limites and boundes of his owne Iurisdiction it appeareth manifestly by these his woordes spoken to a great number of bisshoppes as Eusebius recordeth it in his own hearing to haue bene said I am also saith the Emperour a bishop 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 But you are bisshoppes or ouerseers of those thinges that are within the Churche But I being by God sette ouer those thinges that are without the Church am also as it were a bisshop or ouerseer Marke wel these words M. Horne Your allegation auoucheth not the Emperor absolutely to be a bisshop but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Appointed of God as a certain coÌ„moÌ„ bisshop that is resembling for his great zeale to Gods Church the very office and person of a bisshop But here the Emperour distinctly expresseth the truâ— bisshops office and vocation to be different from his own office and calling He confesseth I say expressely that the bisshoppes are appointed of God to be the Rulers ouerseers and directers of those things that are within the Church that is that doe concerne the gouernment of spiritual causes and matters mere ecclesiastical But him selfe he acknowledgeth to be ordayned of God ouer those things that are without the Churche as of wordly and ciuil matters ouer the which he being the Emperour was the supreme gouernour and in that respect he thought he might after a sorte call him self also a bisshop which soundeth an Ouerseer Ruler and Guyder of such things as are to his charge committed And verily after the paterne and example of this Noble first Christian Emperour first I say that opeÌ„ly professed and defended the same it may wel be thought the words spoken to Christian Princes at their CoronatioÌ„ time haue ben coÌ„ceiued and vsed The which also that the Reader may see how distinct aÌ„d differeÌ„t in dede the vocatioÌ„s are of PriÌ„ces and Bisshops and yet how in some sorte thei both are bisshops that is Ouerseers of Gods people as CoÌ„stantine professed hiÌ„ self to be I wil here insert the very words vsually rehersed to Princes at their coronatioÌ„ time by the bishops annointing them These are the words Accipe CoronaÌ„ regni tui quae licet ab indignis episcoporum tameÌ„ manibus capiti tuo imponitur In nomine Patris Filij Spiritus Sancti Quam sanctitatis gloriaÌ„ honoreÌ„ opus fortitudinis intelligas significare per hanc te participeÌ„ ministerij nostri non ignores Ita vt sicut nos in interioribus Pastores restoresque animarum intelligimur ita tu contra omnes aduersitates ecclesiae Christi defensor assistas regnique tibi à Deo dati c. Take the Crowne of your kingdom which is put vpon your heade by the handes of bisshops though vnworthy in the name of the Father the Sonne and the Holy Ghost The which Crown you must vnderstand doth signify the glory aÌ„d honour of Godlynes and the worke of Fortitude By this also vnderstaÌ„d that you are partakener of our Ministery So that as we are knoweÌ„ to be the pastours and gouerners of mens soules in matters internal so you also shoulde assiste as a defendour of the Church of Christ and of the kingdom geueÌ„ to you by God against al aduersites You see here M. Horne that as in the words of king Iosaphat in the old law and of CoÌ„stantin the first ChristiaÌ„ Emperour so to this day in the CoronatioÌ„ of al ChristeÌ„ Princes there is made a plain distinctioÌ„ betwene the Emperours or Princes Office and the Office charge and coÌ„mission of a bisshop coÌ„missioÌ„ I say coÌ„mitted to him not of the Prince but of God And dare you then to coÌ„found theÌ„ Or dare you for shame M. Horne make the world beleue that CoÌ„stantin bore himselfe for a Supreme Gouernour in al causes ecclesiastical or spiritual when he him self in plain woordes confesseth that of spiritual or Ecclesiastical matters the bisshops are of God not of him appointed the Rulers and ouerseers but he hath of God coÌ„mitted vnto him the Charge and rule of those matters that are out of the Church that are in dede no Church matters but matters of policy matters of ciuil gouerment matters of this world and coÌ„cerning this present life only M. Horne The 34. Diuision Pag. 22. a. The Ecclesiastical histories make mention of many Synodes or councelles called or assembled at the appointment and order of this Emperour But the most famous and notable vvas the Nicene Councel about the vvhich consider and marke vvhat vvas the occasion by vvhose authority it vvas summoned and called together and vvhat vvas the doings of the Emperour from the beginning vnto the dissolution thereof and yee shal see plainely as in a Glasse that by the order and practise of the Catholik Church notified in the order of this general Councel the .82 supreme gouernment in Ecclesiastical causes is in the Emperor and and ciuil Magistrates and your 83. opinion condemned by the vniforme agreement of .318 of the most Catholik Bisshops in the vvorlde commending and allovving for most godly vvhat so euer the Emperour did in or about this councel The occasion of this famous and most godly councell vvas the
his subiectes to the ende he might by his humbling of him selfe aduance and exalt Gods glory to the edifiyng and quietnes of his Churche The day came vvhiche vvas the day before the first Session should be in the councel as Socrates saith the Bishoppes did not sleape their ovvne matters but had their billes in a readines and deliuered them vnto the Emperour This vigilant noursefather vnto Gods Churche had cared and deuised so diligently for the common cause as the Bishoppes had done for their priuate quarelles and therefore vvhen he had receiued their Libelles verye .86 politiquelye saieth bicause he vvoulde irritate none of them for that tyme That the day of general iudgement shoulde be a fitte time for these accusations and Christ the Iudge then would iudge al men As for me .87 it is not leafull to take vpon me 8â— the iugement of .89 suche Priestes accused and accusing one an other VVhereunto neuertheles he added this priuy nippe to pynche them vvithal For of al other thinges saith he this is least seemely that Bishoppes shoulde shewe them selues suche as ought to be iudged of others And so caused the Libelles to be cast into the fire giuing them an earnest exhortation to peace and quietnesse Stapleton It is a worlde to see the singular logicke and depe reasoning of M. Horne that can of such slender premisses inferre such mighty conclusions For the Emperour to be the Supreme Gouernour in all matters or causes temporall or spirituall it appereth most plain saieth he to be the practise of the Church by these Bisshops câ—lled vnto the Nicene Councel Answere first M. Horne How could this possiblye be a practise of the Churche that neuer before was vsed in the Churche Except you wil say that euen heathen princes may be your Supreme gouernours in al causes Ecclesiastical You knowe before this Constantine there was neuer Christian Emperour to whome bisshoppes might put vp their complaintes as to their Supreme gouernour onelye Philip excepted Who is neuer read euer to haue medled with the lest matter or cause Ecclesiasticall but liued rather like a close Christian being afearde to displease the Romain Legions who then were in maner al heathens and who as the worlde then wente bore al the stroke in electing of the Emperour and in the continuance also of him Contrarywise that he was subiect to the Bisshops it appereth wel by the doing of Pope Fabian shutting him out at an Easter tyme from the number of coÌ„municants because he sticked to confesse his sinnes as other Christians did Answere therefore first to this howe you auouche that for a practise which was or coulde neuer be vsed Wel lette this goe for an other vntruthe Now let vs heare howe ioylely you wil proue that the 318. Fathers of the Nicene Councel doe condemne M. Fekenhams opinion which before you promised to doe The cause is to your seeming that certain Bisshops accused one the other before the Emperour Constantine But how can this be a good motiue for you M. Horn to pronounce him therefore a Supreme Gouernour in all causes temporal and spiritual seing it dothe not appere what those causes were which the bisâ—hops did put vp vnto him They might be and so it is most likely they were causes temporal Verily your selfe confesseth they were priuat quarrels and so no matter of faith and religioÌ„ of which can growe no priuat quarrels but coÌ„moÌ„ coÌ„trouersies but as it may seme it was some priuat coÌ„teÌ„tioÌ„ betwene neighbour aÌ„d neighbour for at that time euery town had bis bisshops yea many meane Villages also concerning the limites and boundes of their possessions or â—uch like matter which is a matter plaine temporall Beside this they were not al at dissention but certaine and perchaunce very fewe how is then M. Fekenham condemned by 318. Bisshops of Nice I see you wil play smal game rather then ye wil sit out I wil now bring you for M. FekeÌ„ham and for the Popes supremacy no such trieflinge toyes and folishe gheasses but a substantial authour Athanasius him self that reciteth out of Pope Iulius epistle that this famous and moste godly synode decreed that no bisshop should be deposed onlesse the Pope were first thereof aduertised and that nothing owght to be determined in Councel but that he should be thereof made priuye before But why doe I craue ayde against you of this Councell seing your own example plainlye destroyeth your imagined Primacy in that Constantine answereth to these quarreling bisshops that it was not lawful for hiÌ„ to be their Iudge Which sentence of his being so plaine you more grosslye then truely or politykely would elude as thowgh ConstaÌ„tin meant no such matter but politykely spake this because he would not irritate them or leaste by priuate quarrels the weighty cause of the faith in hand should be hindred Such gay gloses that destroy the text may you by your extrauagant Authority make at your pleasure But the senteÌ„ce of Sozomene only laied forth shal both discouer your bastard glose and open also your vntrue handling of his text For Constantine refusing to iudge of the bisshoppes complaintes calling them first as Ruffinus at large reherseth Goddes and such as ought to iudge ouer him not to be iudged of him or of any men at al but of God only he addeth and saieth as Sozomenus your alleaged Author reporteth As for me 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 being a man which woordes you guilfully left out it is not lawfull to take vpon me 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 such iudgement not the iudgemeÌ„t as you absolutely but vntruly turn it For straight he expouÌ„deth what maner of iudgement it is not lawful for hiÌ„ to take vpoÌ„ him adding immediatly 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 wheÌ„ priests are parties plaintifs and defendants not of such Priestes c. as you now the third tyme in one sentence most lewdely and liyengly doe translate it These woordes therefore of Constantine thus spoken to the Bisshoppes were not politikely as you glose Maister Horne but religiously and reuerentlye deuised as to whome in plaine woordes he said Deus vos constituit Sacerdotes potestatem vobis dedit de nobis quoque iudicandi ideo à vobis rectè iudicamur Vos autem non potestis ab hominibus iudicari God hath appointed you Priestes And hath geuen you power to iudge ouer vs also And therefore we are orderly iudged of you But you can not be iudged of men Here by the waye Maister Horne The best the noblest and the wysest Emperour that euer Christendome had confesseth the Bisshoppes his superioures and iudges Shewe you where euer any wise or good Bisshop so flatly agnised the Emperour his superiour or Iudge in matters of Religion Nowe that this facte of Constantine proceded not of policie but of reuerence beholde howe this example was interpreted afterward aboue a thousand yeares past both of Emperours and of Bisshops Martianus that vertuouse Emperour protested
that it vvas agreed vpon by the vvhole Synode that Dioscorus should be deposed the Synode vvriteth vnto the Emperours Valentinianus and Martianus saiyng in this fourme Grieuous diseases neadeth both a stronge medicine and a wise Physition For this cause therfore the Lord ouer al hath appointed your godlines as the best and chiefe Phisition ouer the diseases of the whole world that you should heale them with fitte medicines And you most Christian Emperours receiuing commaundemeÌ„t froÌ„ God aboue other men haue geuen competent diligence for the churches framing a medicine of coÌ„cord vnto the Bishops .147 This thus in vvay of Preface said they declare vvhat they haue done touching Dioscorus they shevve the cause and reasons that moued them thervnto both that the Emperour shoulde consider his vvickednesse and also the sinceritie of their sentence Stapleton Now loe M. Fekenham must nedes yeld and geue ouer For euen the whole CouÌ„cel to the number of .630 Bishops doth confesse saith M. Horne the princes supremacy in causes ecclesiastical it is wel it is not yet in al causes Ecclesiastical And therefore this note is fastened in the Margente as it were with a tenpeny naile and yet al not worth a hedlesse pinne For I beseech you Maister Horne howe can this notable conclusion of yours take anye anker holde of any saiyngs of the Councell by you here alleaged How farre and how deaply your sharpe sight can pearce I know not But for my part I must confesse my selfe so blind that I can see no cause in the world why ye should furnish your margent with such a iolie note Wel I perceiue euery maÌ„ can not see through a milstone But yet eyther my sight and my braine to faileth mee or all this great prouf standeth in this that the Councell calleth the Emperours the best and chiefe physitions ouer the disseases of the world for framing a medicine of concorde to the Bisshops By my trowth it is wel and worshipfully concluded and ye were worthy at the least to be made a poticarie for your labour Sauing that it is to be feared if ye shuld procede on the body as ye doe nowe with the soule ye woulde kil manie a poore mans bodie with your olde rotten drugges as ye do now kill many a sowle with your pestiferous poysoned drawght of heretical potions they take at your hands But nowe to answere to you and to your so farre fette phisike I pray yow M. Horne why doe ye cut of the tayle of your owne tale Why do ye not suffer the fathers to speake their whole mind And to ruffle a litle in M. Iewells rhetorycke what were the fathers stayed with the choygnecoughe and forced to breake of they re matter and tale in the myddest Mark well gentle reader and thow shal see the whole CouÌ„cel of .630 bisshops set to schole and kept in awe and not suffred to vtter one worde more then M. Horne will geue them leaue For the next wordes that immediatly followe in the same matter are these Pontificibus coÌ„cordiae medicinaÌ„ machinantes vndique enim nos congregantes omne commodastis auxilium quatenus factae interimantur discordiae paternae fidei doctrina roboretur For yow say the fathers to the Emperours assembling vs from all places haue holpen al that may be to pacify and kil these diuisions and dissensions and that the fayth and doctrine of our fathers may be strenghthened What worde is here M. Horne that any thing towcheth your purpose Here is nothing but that the couÌ„cel was assembled by their good help which as I haue often declared serueth not your turne to make them supreame heads Nowe because throwgh their meanes the Councell came together in the whiche a quietnesse was set in religion the Councell calleth them physitions yea and the chiefe as they were chiefe in dede in respecte of their cyuill authoritie wherewythe they did assiste the Councel and did helpe by this ministerie of theirs not by anie iudicial sentence or other Ecclesiasticall acte which ye shal neuer shewe to quiet and pacefie the greate dissensions then raigning and raging And so were they phisitions in dede but the outwarde not the inward phisitions The fathers were the inwarde phisitions They made the verye potion for the disease And because we are ons entred into the talke of phisitions they were the very phisitions of the sowle The scripture saieth of the king regem honorificate honour the kinge yt saieth also of the phisition honora medicum Honour the phisition But what sayeth yt of the prieste The priestes sayeth S. Paule that gouuerne well are worthy of double honour againe obeye your rulers meaninge the Ecclesiasticall rulers for they watche to geue a reckoning for your sowles And the Ecclesiasticus sayeth humble thy sowle to the preste So that ye may see M. Horne the priestes to be the true and highest phisitions as farre passing and exceding the other physitions as the sowle passeth and excedeth the bodie and then must the spirituall primacye nedes remayne in them And that doe these Iudges here euen in this Action expressely proteste and confesse against you For they say touching the point of doctrine then in question Quod placuit reuerendo Concilio de sancta fide ipsum nos doceat Let the Reuerend Councel it selfe teach vs and infourme vs what is their pleasure touching the holy faith You see here they toke no suprem gouernemente in this cause ecclesiastical in determining I say the true faith as you will make Princes beleue they may and ought to doe they yet being the Emperours deputies but lerned humbly of the holy Councel what their determination in such matters was Thus at the length your great mighty â—ost is thwyghted to a pudding pryck Neither shal ye be able of al theis .630 bishops to bring one that mayntained your pretensed supremacy And when he proueth yt to you good reader by theis 630. bisshops or by anie one of them I dare say M. FekeÌ„ham wil take the oth and so wil I to For it is as true as the nobles gaue senteÌ„ce to depose Dioscorus and others Who is not as yet deposed and that wil I proue by M. Horne him self who sayth that in this actioÌ„ the whole synode agreed that Dioscorus should be deposed and so ful pretely doth he cal back that he sayd not fyftene lynes before and proueth him self against him self that their saying was no sentence M. Horne 51. Diuision Pag. 32. b. In the fourth Action vvhen the rehearsall of al things passed before vvas done the Iudges and Senate asketh if all the Bisshops agree vvhervnto they ansvvered yea yea The Synode had requested the Iudges and the Senate to make suite to the Emperour for fiue Bisshops vvhich othervvise .148 must be deposed as vvas Dioscorus vvhich they did and made this relation vnto the Synode That the Emperour perceiuing the humble suite of the Synod doth licence them to determine
the Actes of the thirde Synode that Simmachus the Pope did keepe at Rome vvherin the King doth not only auouche the decree of Simplicius but also addeth VVe maruaile that without vs anye thīg was accōpted seing that whiles our Priest meaning the bisshop of Rome Simplicius was on liue nothing ought to haue bene taken in hande without vs. The .16 Chapter of Simplicius Felix .3 and Symmachus Popes of Rome Stapleton IF Pope Simplicius by decree gaue the Prince Authority to confirme the chosen Pope what helpeth this your supremacy Nay doth it not much impayre the same For then al the Princes Authority in this behalfe dependeth of the Popes decree as of a Superiour lawe And so he is subiect both to the law and to the lawemaker And yet this is all that in this Diuision hath any maner inckling to iuduce the Prīces Supremacy in any cause ecclesiastical But yf M. Horn would haue loked but a litle further and vpō the first line of the next leafe he mought haue found in the said Synod that the see of Rome hath the priestly primacy ouer all the whole world And that Councels must be confirmed by that see with such other like matter For whereas this King Odoacer beside the decree touchīg the chosing of the Pope which as your self say he made at the Popes request made also an other concerning not alienating Church goods the whole Synod reiected and cōdemned it for these .ij. causes expressely First saith Eulalius a bisshop of Sicily whose sentence the other bisshops saying the same the whole Synode folowed because against the rules of the Fathers this Decree appereth to be made of Layemen though religious and godlye to whome that any authoritye was euer geuen ouer Ecclesiasticall goods it is not reade Secondlye it is not declared to be confirmed with the subscription of any bisshop of the Apostolike See Nowe whereas the holy Fathers haue decreed that if the Priestes of any whatsoeuer prouince keeping a Councel within their owne lymities shall attempt any thing without the authority of their Metropolitane or their bisshop it should be voyde and of none effect howe much more that which is knowen to haue bene presumed in the See Apostolike the Bisshop thereof not present which bisshop by the prerogatiue of the blessed Apostle Peter hauing throughe the whole worlde the Primacy of priesthood hath bene wonte to confirme the Decrees of Councels presumed I say of layemen though certayn bisshops agreing vnto it who yet could not preiudicat their Prelat of whom it is knowen they were consecrated is vndoubtedly voyde and of no effect neither any waye to be accompted amonge Ecclesiastical decrees Thus farre that Synod by your selfe alleaged M. Horne God rewarde you for geuing vs such good instructions against your selfe Or yf it came not of you but of your frende let him haue the thankes therefore But yf it so falleth out against your willes both yet God be praysed that as by sinne he worketh somtime a greater amēdement and turneth horrible temptations into a more confortable calmenesse then before the storme came so also by your vnhappy meaning hathe yet brought vs to a happye information of such doctrine as vtterly ouerthroweth your heresye For here you see M. Horne not only the laie Magistrat yea the King him selfe yea though he were religiouse and godly vtterly excluded from all authority in causes Ecclesiasticall whereby your phantasticall Primacie vanisheth cleane away but also that the Pope whome you cal a forraine power hath the Primacy the chiefty and supreame praeeminence of Priesthode not onely in Rome or the Romaine Prouince but saith this Synode by your self clerckly alleaged per vniuersum orbem throughout the whole worlde and then if you be a parte of the worlde he is your Primate too Thus much saith this Synode and thereby vtterly ouerthroweth the whole effect of the Othe in both those partes for the whiche the Catholikes refuse to swere vnto it Verely if ye goe on as you haue hitherto you wil surely be espied for a preuaricatour that is for a double faced Proctour secreatlie instructing your clients aduersarie but in face protesting to plead against him For better instructions no hyred aduocate coulde haue geauen vs then you the Counterpleader haue ministered vnto vs. M. Horne The .58 Diuision pag. 35. a. Next after Simplicius vvas Foelix the third chosen vvho after his confirmation sent many letters as vvell to the Emperour as to Acatius Bisshoppe of Constantinople about the matter betvvixt Iohn and Peter but vvhen he coulde not preuaile in his suite he made Iohn Bisshoppe of Nola in Campania One of the letters that Pope Foelix vvrote vnto Zenon the Emperour about this matter is put into the fift Synode of Constantinople vvherein the Pope after the salutation doth most humblye beseech the Emperour to take his humble suite in good parte He shevveth that the holy .162 Churche maketh this suite that he vvill vouchesafe to mainteine the vnitie of the Churche that he vvill destroye Heresies that breaketh the bonde of vnitie that he vvill expell Peter Mogge bothe oute of the Citie and also from Churche regiment that he vvould not suffer Peter being deposed to be admitted to the Communion of the Churche but that by his honorable letters he vvould banish him out of the bounds of Antioche And saith this Bisshop of Rome Foelix vnto the Emperour In his place appoint you one that shal beutifie the Priesthode by his woorkes Stapleton You procede still to bring authorities against your selfe This Peter was deposed I confesse But by whome M. Horne Not by the Emperour but euen by Pope Foelix as appeareth but one leafe before the place which your selfe alleage And in case it was to painefull for you to turne backe a leafe or two before yet might you haue vouchsaued to haue read the next lines before your own allegatiō In the which Foelix signifieth that he was so deposed and therfore requesteth th'Emperour to expel him and to place some other mete man for him whiche thing Popes doe at this day requiring Catholike Princes to remoue hereticall Bishops and to place good in their roome neither yet therfore are or euer were Princes accompted enacted or intituled Supreme gouernours in all causes Ecclesiasticall Your new Religion hath inuented this newe Title This Pope Foelix also excommunicated Acatius of Constantinople for bearing with this Peter Mogge as witnesseth Liberatus Whereby appeareth clerely the Popes Primacie ouer the ij chiefe Patriarches of the East Churche of Constantinople and Antioche And you againe are with your owne examples cleane ouerthrowen M. Horne The .59 Diuision pag. 35. b. Anastasius the Emperour .163 deposed Macedonius Bisshoppe of Constantinople as one that falsified the Ghospels as Liberatus saith Stapleton If this Macedonius falsified the Ghospel he was I wene worthy to be deposed But your Author vseth not this worde Deposed but he saieth he was expulsed Whiche might be being by an
honesty or dwelling so nighe Winchester schole so litle sight in the grammer Mennas had condemned Anthimus the Bishops and other cryed that forwith he should coÌ„deÌ„ne Seuerê° Petrus and Zoaras as he did a while after To whome Mennas answered that it was mete to coÌ„sult with themperour first which is very true for his great zeale to the faith aÌ„d for that he hadde the exequution of the sentence this is lyke your other knacke before that Dioscorus and other must be deposed And surely I woulde haue meruayled yf Mennas had takeÌ„ Iustinian for the supreame head who within fowre lynes after declareth the Pope to be the supreame head and that he did followe and obeye hiÌ„ in al things and coÌ„municated with them that did communicate with him and coÌ„demned those whome he did condemne Who also gaue Anthimus the heretik a tyme of repentance appointed by Pope Agapetus and proceded in SeÌ„tence against him according to the prescription of the Pope as Cyrillus proceded against Nestorius in the Ephesine Councel according to the limitation of Pope Celestinus M. Horne The .74 Diuision pag. 42. a. Such is the autority of Princes in matters Ecclesiastical that the Godly auncient Fathers did not only confesse that nothing moued in Church matters .207 ought to be done vvithout their authority but also did submitte theÌ„selues vvillingly vvith humble obedience to the directâ—on of the Godly Emperors by their lavves .208 in al matters or causes Ecclesiastical vvhich thei vvuld not haue done â–ª yf they hadde thought that Princes ought not to haue gouerned in Ecclesiastical causes The same zelous Emperour doth declare that the authority of the Princes lavves doth rightly dispose and kepe in good order both spiritual and temporal matters and driueth avvay all iniquity vvherefore he did not only gather togeather as it vvere into one heape tha lavves that he him selfe had made and other Emperours before him touching ciuil or temporal matters but also manye of those lavves and constitutions vvhich .209 his auncestours had made in Ecclesiastical causes Yea there vvas nothing perteyning to the Church gouernemente vvhiche he did not prouide for order and direct by his lavves and Constitutions vvherein may euidently appeare the aucthoritie of Princes not onely ouer the persons but also in the causes Ecclesiasticall He made a common and generall lavve to all the Patriarches touching the ordering of Bisshoppes and all other of the Clergie and Church Ministers prescribing the number of them to be suche as the reuenues of the Churches may vvell susteine affirming that the care ouer the Churches and other religious houses perteine to his ouersight And doth further inhibite that the ministers do passe foorth of one Churche to an other vvithout the licence of the Emperour or the Bisshoppe the vvhich ordinaunce he gaue also to those that vvere in Monasteries He .210 geaueth authoritie to the Patriarche or Bisshoppe to refuse and reiect although great suit by men of much authoritie be made He prescribeth in vvhat sorte and to vvhat ende the Churche goods shoulde be bestovved and threatneth the appointed paines to the bysshoppe and the other Mynisters if they trangresse this his Constitution He prescribeth in vvhat sorte the Bisshoppe shall dedicate a Monastery be giueth rules and fourmes of examination and triall of those that shal be admitted into a Monasterie before they be professed in vvhat sorte and orders they shal liue together He .211 prescribeth an order and rule vvherby to choose and ordeine the Abbat He requireth in a Monasticall personne diuinorum eloquiorum eruditionem conuersationis integritatem Learning in Gods woorde and integritie of life And last of all he chargeth the Archebisshoppes Bisshoppes and other churche Ministers vvith the publisshing and obseruing of this his constitution Yea his Temporal officers and Iudges also threatening to them both that if they doe not see this his Lawe executed and take the effecte they shal not escape condigne punishment He protesteth that Emperours ought not to be carefull for nothing so much as to haue the mynisterye faithfull tovvardes God and of honeste behauiour tovvardes the vvorlde vvhiche he saith vill easely be brought to passe if the holy rules vvhich the Apostles gaue and the holy Fathers kept and made plaine be obserued and put in vre Therefore saith he vve folovving in all things the sacred rules meaning of the Apostles do ordeine and decree c. and so maketh a constitution and lavve touching the qualities and conditions that one to be chosen and ordered a Bisshop ought to haue and prescribeth a fourme of triall and examination of the party before he be ordered adding that if any be ordered a Bisshop not qualified according to this constitution bothe he that ordereth and he that is ordered shall * lose their bisshoprikes He addeth furthermore that if he come to his Bisshoprike by giftes or revvardes or if he be absent from his Bisshoprike aboue a time limited vvithout the commaundement of the Emperour that he shall incurre the same penalties The like orders and rules he prescribeth in the same constitution for Deacons Diaconisses Subdeacons and Readers commaunding the Patriarches Archbisshops and bisshops to promulgate this constitution and to see it obserued vnder a paine He afâ—irmeth that this hath ben an auncient Lavve and doth by his authority renevv and confirme the same that no man haue priuate Chappels in their houses vvherein to celebrate the diuine mysteries vvherevnto he addeth this vvarning vnto Mennas the Archebisshop that if he knevv any suche to be and do not forbid and refourme that abuse but suffer this constitution of the Emperour to be neglected and broken he him selfe shal forfait to the Emperour fiftie poundes of gold Also that the ministers kepe continuall residence on their benefices othervvise the Bisshop to place others in their roomes and they neuer to be restored Stapleton We shall nowe haue a long rehearsall full three leaues of many Ecclesiasticall Lawes made by Iustinian the Emperour But who would thinke that M. Horne were eyther so folishe to make suche a sturre for that no man denyeth and the which nothing proueth his cause or to reherse such constitutions of Iustinian that partely ouerthroweth his Primacy partly displaceth him froÌ„ al bishoply and priestly office But what shal a man saye to them that be past all shame and haue no regard what they say or doe preach or write Or how is this world bewitched thus paciently to suffer such mens sermons and bookes yea and to geue them high credit to Tel me then and blushe not M. Horn whether ye be not one of them that for lacke of such qualities as IustiniaÌ„ according to the holie rules and Canons ye spake of requireth in a Bishop must lose your Bishoprik and those also that ordeined you Is not this one of the qualities that a Bisshoppe should haue no maner of wife when he is ordered Yea that his wife that he
of this Charles which can not be commended inowghe and whome the councell kepte at Mens commendeth euen as M. Horne reporteth for his godlie wisedome in continual feadinge of Christs sheepe withe holie foode and instructinge them with diuine knowledge farre passing thorowgh his holy wisdome the other kings of the earthe A wise man would now maruayle to what end M. Horne hath heaped these and all his other prayses of thys Emperour who truly can not be praised to much but the truer and greater his prayse is the more discommendation to M. Horne and to his boke beinge directe contrarie to the doings and belief of Charles and this matter so certaynly true that Maister Horne him selfe can not denie yt Beside here appeareth a contradiction the whiche Maister Horne shal neuer shift away charging him before for want of pure knowledge whereof yet he doth nothing else but purge him almost fowre leaues following together as one hauinge a priestlie power to preache the worde of God and hauing perfytte knowledg in the catholyke fayth And saying that al the catholyk and learned fathers of that tyme confirme well the doinges of Charles which he him selfe dothe here impugne for Masses Chrisme and other poyntes of catholyke religion Consider these thinges good reader well and then iudge with indifferency who be the blind bussardes that M. Horne spake of Your note in the margent may be suffred wel inowgh being agreable to your texte onlesse yt be that sometyme good thinges be the worse for comminge to yl mens handes The priestly power that Alcuinus meaneth resteth in this poynte that as the priestes in they re Synodes and preachinges set forthe the true fayeth so doe good princes set forth the same by theire proclamations For you will not I trowe say that the Emperour him self preached in pulpyt with gown and surplesse or with cope and Rotchet as you poore soules are driuen full againste your willes to doe And so for all your note and shrewde meaning Charles is as farre of from his supremacy as euer he was before Yea I will nowe proue after the vsual sort of M. Hornes reasoning against the catholikes that bishops at thys tyme yea in the tyme of greate Theodosius to were supreame heads aswell in causes temporall as spirituall For by the decree of Charles and Theodosius yt was Lawfull for all men in all suites to appeale to the bisshoppes withowte anie appeale to be made from they re sentence and decree But of this we haue spoken before more at large Yet you tel vs again here after your maner that this Charles ruled and gouerned ecclesiasticall persons in all Ecclesiasticall thinges and causes This you conclude stil. But this clause saying or assertion coulde neuer yet appeare in any text by you alleaged And here I might ruffle with you in M. Iewels Rethorike for this clause Supreme gouernment in all Ecclesiasticall thiÌ„gs and causes as he doth against D. Harding for the bare termes of Priuate Masse vniuersal Bisshop head of the Church c. and say to you If Emperours and other Princes were supreme Gouernours in dede in all Ecclesiasticall causes so allowed and taken in the whole worlde why were thei neuer expressely and plainely named so was there no man in the worlde for the space of a thowsand yeres and more from the tyme of Constantine to Maximilian able to expresse this name or Title It had ben the simpler and playner dealing for M. Horne to haue said This Title can not yet be found and so to haue takeÌ„ a longer daie And againe This title of supreme Gouernour in al Ecclesiastical causes is the very thing that we deny aÌ„d that M. Horn hath takeÌ„ in haÌ„d to proue and boldly auoucheth that he hath already plainly shewed it and yet not in one of his allegations it can be found As though he woulde say al the olde fathers of the Church both Greekes and Latines wanted woordes and eloquence and either they could not or they durste not call the supreme Gouernour by his own peculiar name And again thus From the tyme of Constantine the great to this Charles there haue ben of Christen Emperours aboue .30 and beside a greate nombre of Christen Kinges in Spayne in Fraunce yea and in our Countrye to for their Constancy in faith for their vertues and knowledge far exceading the rest that haue ben sithence at least wise by your Iudgements which condemne these later ages The nombre of them beinge so greate their vertues so noble their power so mighty it is merueyl M. Horne should not be able to shew that any one of them all in so long tyme was so much as once Called Intitled Saluted or proclaymed The supreme Gouernour in al causes Ecclesiastical And last of al. This supreme Gouernement to the which we must nedes sweare by booke othe so Auncient so vniuersall so Catholike so Gloriouse can not be founde neither in the Romain Empire neither in al the Easte Church nor in FrauÌ„ce nor in Spaine nor in England but must be sought out in broken sayinges of this and that man and that by coniecture only This I might as I said in M. Iewels Rhetorike ruffle a litell with you But because as his chalenge it selfe I beleue so farre misliketh you that you wishe his tounge had bene tyed to a pillery when he vttered it at Paules Crosse so this his Rhetorike also pleaseth you I trowe neuer a whitte Therefore not to trowble you I am content to leaue it Onelye I desire the Reader to marke that euer you conclude pronounce and affirme in your owne woordes Supreme Gouernement in al Ecclesiasticall causes but in your allegations and Authorities being so thicke and so long you can not for your life so much as once finde it And so Christen men are sworen to that which neuer synce Christ was borne was euer reade sene or herde of in any Councel or Doctour Bisshop or Father Emperour or Prince Countrie or City whatsoeuer But to returne to you Maister Horne whome I hadde almoste forgotten I will note one moste fonde contradiction in you and so passe to the next Diuision You say this Prince Charles the greate is in some thinges to be borne with considering the blindnesse and superstition of the tyme. And yet you say in lesse theÌ„ tweÌ„ty lines before This doctrine of Alcuinê° who was this Charles his Chaplain was no doubt the doctrin of al the Catholik and learned fathers in that tyme. Now good sir. If there were Catholik aÌ„d learned fathers in that tyme aÌ„d the doctrin of Alcuinê° was the doctrin of theÌ„ he also being themperors chaplaine and dayly instructer in Gods matters why feare you in theÌ„peror a corruptioÌ„ of the blindnes aÌ„d superstitioÌ„ of the tyme Or what blindnes and superstitioÌ„ is there in the tyme wheÌ„ Catholik aÌ„d learned fathers flourish in the time Except you wil say that to be Catholik and learned is also a
blindnes aÌ„d superstitioÌ„ aÌ„d that heretiks only do se or the vnlerned oÌ„ly haue the pure worship of God But so it is That tyme coÌ„deÌ„neth this tyme. That ReligioÌ„ coÌ„deÌ„neth yours And therefore you must nedes either cal theÌ„ blind or coÌ„fesse your self bliÌ„d which you caÌ„ not possibly do because you are bliÌ„d in dede And why Forsoth because euer wheÌ„ you looke vp toward the former ages you put vpoÌ„ your eies a paire of spotted spectacles so that al that you se through those spectacles semeth also spotted fowle aÌ„d euil fauored vnto you And these spectacles are The coÌ„tempt of the Church traditioÌ„s A pride of your own knowledge in Gods word A lothsomnes of austere aÌ„d hard life to beare your own crosse with Christ. A preiudicat opinioÌ„ of preferriÌ„g Caluin MelaÌ„chtoÌ„ aÌ„d Luther before al the Catholik aÌ„d lerned fathers for so you cal theÌ„ of that age With such like If you wuld ones put of these foule spotted spectacles M. Horn theÌ„ wuld you neuer cal the time of Catholik aÌ„d lerned fathers a time of blindnes aÌ„d superstitioÌ„ but then would you se clerly your own blindnes and superstition Which with al my hart I pray God you may ones doe ere your dye M. Horne The .102 Diuision pag. 63. a. Although herein Lodouicê° Charles his son vvere somvvhat inferior to his father Yet notvvithstaÌ„diÌ„g he .327 reserued these Ecclesiastical causes to hiÌ„self aÌ„d vvith no lesse care be ordred the same although in some thiÌ„gs being a very mild PriÌ„ce he vviÌ„ked aÌ„d bare ouer much vvith the .328 ambitioÌ„ of the Popes Shortly after vvhaÌ„ as the forsaid Leo vvas departed vvas StepheÌ„ next elected Pope aÌ„d vvithout the coÌ„firmatioÌ„ of theÌ„perour tooke the Papacy vpoÌ„ hiÌ„ Al the histories agree that he came shortly after into FrauÌ„ce to theÌ„peror but vvherfore most of theÌ„ leaue vncertain Platina thinketh to auoid the hursey burley in the City that vvas after the death of Leo. Sabellicus thiÌ„keth theÌ„perors coronatioÌ„ to be the cause Nauclerus saith he weÌ„t in his own person vnto theÌ„peror Lodouik .329 about or for the Church matters vvhich 330 proueth that theÌ„perour had chief authority in ordering the Church busines But our English Chronicles as some vvriters affirme do plainly declare that his coÌ„ming into FrauÌ„ce vvas to make an excuse of his vnlaufull consecration against the decrees made to Charles by his predecessours AdriaÌ„ and Leo fearing therefore the sequele of the matter he first sent his Legats before hiÌ„ to be a preparatiue to his purgatioÌ„ and aftervvards came hiÌ„self to craue his pardoÌ„ And the rather to please theÌ„peror brought a most beautiful crovvn of gold for hiÌ„ and another for the Empresse 331 vvherof folovved as Naucle saith OiÌ„a quae petiit à pio Imperatore obtinuit he obteined whatsoeuer he asked of the godly emperor Novv vvheÌ„ StepheÌ„ had dispatched al his matters he retourned home and shortly after an other ecclesiastical cause happened for vvithin a vvhile the bishop of Reatina died and there vvas an other chosen And wheÌ„ the sea of Reatina saith Nauclerê° was void the Pope would not coÌ„secrat the elect Bishop onles he had first liceÌ„ce therto of themperor The circuÌ„stances of this story make the matter more plaine The erle Guido had vvriteÌ„ vnto Pope StepheÌ„ to coÌ„secrat that bishop vvhoÌ„ the Clergy and the people had elect but the Pope durst not enterprice the matter till he vvere certified of theÌ„perors pleasure and therupoÌ„ vvriteth agaiÌ„ vnto Th erle the tenor vvhereof folovveth after Gratianus report I haue red your letters wheriÌ„ you require me to coÌ„secrat the newly elect Bisshop of Reatin chosen by the coÌ„sent of the Clergy aÌ„d people least the Church should be long destitute of a propre pastour I am sory for the death of the other but I haue deferred the consecratioÌ„ of this for that he brought not with him themperors licence vt mos est as the maner is I haue not satisfied your mind herein leste that the Emperour should be displeased at my doing Therefore I require you for otherwise I ought not to medle to purchase the Emperours liceÌ„ce directed vnto me by his letters vt prisca consuetudo dictat as the auncient custome doth wil and then I will accomplishe your desier I praie you take not this my doing in euil parte VVherof it is manifeste inough saith Nauclerus that of the Emperours at that time the Bishops had their inuestitures although Anto doth glosse otherwise saying that perhaps this electe Bisshoppe was belonging to the Court who ought not to be ordered Not only the textes of many decrees in this distinction doth confirme this to be true but also Gratian him self and the glossars do in manie places affirme that this was the auncient custome and coÌ„stitution in the Churche that the electionâ— of the Bishoppes of Rome and of other Bishops also should be presented to the Emperours and Princes before they might be consecrated The .11 Chapter â–ª Of Lewys the first of SteueÌ„ .1 Paschalis .1 Eugenius .1 and Gregory the .4 Popes of Rome Stapleton LVdouicus sonne to Charles the great confirmed the popes election and had the inuestitures of bishops Be yt so M. Horn if ye wil what then Haue you forgotten that al that Authoryty was geueÌ„ to his father Charles the great by Adrian the pope and that he helde that onely of the Popes gifte Agayne many hundred yeares together ere this tyme Fraunce Italie Spayne England and many other contreis were vnder thempiere of Rome Would ye therfore inferre your argument froÌ„ that tyme to our tyme and make those countries nowe subiect to the Empire bicause they were then Yf ye doe litle thank shal ye haue for your labour And truely the argument holdeth aswel in the one as in the other And when al is done your cause of supremacie standeth as yt did before Yet is the fyne and clerkly handlyng of the matter by M. Horne to be withall considered who like a wanton spanell running from hys game at riot hunteth to fynde the cause why Pope Stephen whome the stories call an Angelicall and a blessed man came to this Emperour into FrauÌ„ce He telleth three causes out of three certaine and knoweÌ„ Authours aÌ„d then telleth vs that Nauclerus sayeth he came for Churche matters and so ful haÌ„dsomly concludeth thereby that the Emperour had the chiefe Authoritie therein which is as good an argument as if a man would proue the woman to whome Kyng Saule came and consulted with for certaine his affaires to haue bene aboue the King Your Authour Nauclerus doth specifie what these causes were that is to intreate themperour for his enemies and for the Romans that had done suche iniurie to Pope Leo of whom ye haue spoken and to pardon other that were in diuerse prisons in FrauÌ„ce for the great owtragiouse offences done against the Churche The good Emperour satisfied hys desire aÌ„d so he returned to
Church of Rome till God stirred vp the vvyse and mighty Prince Otho the first vvhose zeale stoutnes and trauayle in reforming Religion and the disordred Churche no tongue is able to expresse saith Nauclerus Stapleton You make Sabellicus to saie a great deale more thē euer he saied or intended to say For he doth not certaynely ascribe any such cause as you pretend but only he saieth Nō immeritò quis suspicaretur A mā may ād not without a cause suspecte But what M. Horne That Popes kept euill rule and were geuen to al lewdenesse bicause the Emperours did not ouersee them So you woulde haue folke to think and therefore you make Sabellicus to conclude that this was the calamyte of Fraunce Italy and of the Churche of Rome quòd in ea gēte desitum esset imperari bicause there was no kīg nor Emperour to beare rule But false translation maketh no proufe Knowe you not M. Horne what In ea gente doth signifie in english Or if we may not finde faulte with your grammer why slacked your honesty so farre as to leaue the english thereof quyte out What was there a pad in the strawe Sabellicus then saieth the cause of all that calamyte was bicause there was no kinge nor Emperour to beare rule in ea gente in that stocke or line of Charles the great whose posterity had hitherto lineally reigned downe to Arnulphus the last mentioned Emperour and the last in dede by the opinion of most historians of Charles his lineal descēt After whom in dede the Churche was in great trouble and disorder for the space of .50 or .60 yeres But howe Did the euil Popes cause that disorder So woulde M. Horne folowing herein the steppes of baudy Bale that we should thinke But as I haue noted before in the compasse of that .50 yeres there were diuers good and vertuous Popes ruling the Churche more then twenty of those .50 yeres And the cause of al that disorder was not the only euil life of certaine Popes but much more the licentious lewdenesse of the Italians and especially the Romans at that tyme who in dede for lacke of Iustice on the Emperours partes which is the thinge that Sabellicus cōplaineth of liued enormously and licētiously makīg Kings amonge themselues and not only oppressing one an other but also moste vily and cruelly handlinge their bisshoppes being good and vertuous Of whome Stephen the .8 a Pope of much holynes at that very tyme was of his Cytyzens so shamefully mangled and disfigured that he was fayne of a long tyme for very shame to kepe within dores and so liued three yeres in greate vexation and trouble The cause of al this trouble in the Churche at this tyme yf you liste shortly to knowe gentle Readers Sabellicus agreing herein with the other historians wil clerely tell you He saieth Quantū Francorum pietate c. Looke howe muche Rome and all Italy breathed as it were from alonge continuāce of miseries by the godlynes and bountifulnes of the Frenche Princes Charles and his issewe one whole age almost a .100 yeares so much fell it backe againe in to all kinde of calamytie by the space of almost .60 yeres through ciuil Sedition This calamyty beganne from the last yere of Adrian the .3 and ended in the time of Iohn the .12 And will you see whereof sprange this calamytie M. Horn imagineth it was bicause the Princes did not practise their Ecclesiastical gouernement ouer Popes But Sabellicus a better historian then M. Horne addeth immediatly vpon his former wordes this Cause Enimuero praeter Normannos c. Verely beside the Normans which wasted Fraunce of which outrage that great chaunge of thinges then made in the worlde semeth to me to haue sprounge the Hunnes also people of Scythia being bolde vpon the troubles of Fraunce coming downe into Slauony did conquer the landes of Gepides and Auari people then in those quarters so called The ouerrūning thē of forrain nations and the Ciuill Seditions through out all Italy caused this greate calamyty that the historyans of this time complaine so muche of Whych the more encreased for that the Emperours of that time Arnulphus Conradus Henrie the first yea and Otho hym selfe vntyll the later ende of hys Empire partly would not partly could not represse the tyrantes in Italie and other where In all whych hurley burleys in all whych breaches of good order licentiousnes of lyfe and corruption of the worlde if the heads also them selues the chiefe bishoppes sometimes fell to disorder and lewdenesse of life yt is the lesse to be maruayled of him that wyll consider the course of Gods prouidence in thys worlde who suffreth for the sinnes of the people vt sicut populus sic sit sacerdos That lyke as the people so should also the Priest be who saieth also in lyke enormities of the worlde Dabo pueros principes eorum I will geue them children for their Princes meaning not onely children in age but children in wisedome children in strength and children in vertue Of which also expressely we reade that the wrath of God wexed hotte against Israëll and stirred vppe Dauid to say to Ioab Goe and number Israël and Iuda Of the which great vanitie and ouersight of that King the plague fell vppon the people and not vpon the King So God plagueth the wickednesse of subiects with the sinnes of their Rulers and geueth oftentimes to a froward flock a curst shepheard This consideration of Gods prouidēce in that corrupt time not of corrupt faith as you bable but of corrupt maners had more becommed a man of your vocation M. Horne and a Diuine then such false ād lewde surmises as you haue vttered Which you could neuer so haue cloked if you had opened the whole historie and circumstaunces of the case to your Readers But this you will neuer doe saye we what we wil. Your ragged relligion must be patched vp with such broken cloutes of imperfecte narrations M. Horne The .110 Diuision pag. 68. a. At this time vvas Iohn .13 Pope a man replete and loden vvith all disshonestie and villanie against .355 vvhom tvvo of the chiefest amongest the Clergie the one vvas a Cardinall saith Luithprandus the other maister of the Rolles made complaint vnto Ottho most humblie beseching him to haue some compassion on the Church vvhich if it vvere not spedilie refourmed must needes come to vtter decaie After vvhom came the Bisshoppe of Millaine and so one after an other a great manie moe making the same suite vnto Ottho vvho being moued of his ovvne zeale to Gods glorie but novv enflamed by the lamentable supplications of these Bisshoppes Rex pijssimus saieth Luithprandus Non quae sua sunt sed quae Iesu Christi cogitans The moste Relligious King hauinge carefull cogitations not for his owne thinges but for Iesus Christes maters addressed him selfe vvith all conuenient speede into Italie to refourme Rome from vvhence all
may serue you also for that ye alleage concerning Robert groshead sauing that I may adde this withall that he were a very Groshead in dede that would belieue you either when ye say to M. Fekenham whome ye call S. Robert seing M. Fekenham speaketh no woorde of this Robert no more then he doth of Robyn goodfellowe or that this story should make against the Popes primacie seing that your owne authour Fabian saith that this Robert being accursed of the Pope Innocentius appealed from his courte to Christes owne cowrte A manifeste argument of the popes supremacy As for Frederyk the Emperours episte to Kinge Henry what so euer he writeth against the Pope ye would be loth I suppose it shuld take place in EnglaÌ„d For then farewel your goodly Manours as WalthaÌ„ FarnhaÌ„ aÌ„d such other Neither were your geÌ„tleman Vssher like to ride before you barehead but both he and you to goe a foote or rather your self to go barefoted al alone M. Horne The .128 Diuision pag. 79. a. Levves the Frenche King called S. Levves vvho as Antoninus saith was so instructed euen from his infancy in all the wisedom of diuine and good orders that there was not found his like that kept the law of the high God c. made a lawe against those that blasphemed the name of the Lorde adioyning a penalty of a whote yron to be printed in the transgressours forehead Also in the yere of the Lorde .1228 He made a Law against the Popes fraudes concerning the preuentions and reâ—eruations of the reuenues and dignities Ecclesiastical complayning that the Pope had pulled from him the collations of all Spirituall promotions ordeining that from hence foorth the election of Bisshops Prelates and al other whatsoeuer should be free forcible aÌ„d effectual to the electors Patrones aÌ„d collatours of theÌ„ Also the same yere he set forth an other Law agaiÌ„st Simony coÌ„plainiÌ„g of the bieyng aÌ„d selliÌ„g of ecclesiastical dignities He made also certain godly Lavves against vvhoredome and FornicatioÌ„ Laste of all in the yeere of the Lorde .1268 he set foorth the Lavve commonly called Pragmatica Sanctio vvherein in amongest other Ecclesiastical matters against the Popes pollinges he saith thus Item in no case we wil that exactions or greuous burdens of money being laide on the Churche of our Kingdome by the Courte of Rome whereby our Kingedome is miserably impouerished be leuied or gathered nor any hereafter to be layed excepte only for a reasonable godly and moste vrgent cause of necessity that can not be auoided aÌ„d that the same be don by our expresse .438 biddinge and commaundement of our own accord .439 The .26 Chapter Of S. Lewys the French King Of Manfred and Charles King of Sicilia and Apulia Stapleton LEwes his Lawe against those that blasphemed the name of God maketh not him supreame head of the Churche Ye mowght haue put in as your authour doth those also that blaspheme the name of his blessed mother But the mention of this woulde haue greaued some of your sect that haue compared our Ladie to a saffron bagge making her no better then other women And what yf you or your confederats had liued then that say it is Idolatrie to pray to her and to praye her to pray for vs to her sonne Iesu Christe shoulde not ye haue had suppose you great cause to feare the printe of the hotte yron ye speake of As for the collations of spiritual promotions this Lewys bestowed none such as his predecessours by especial licences and priuileges had graunted vnto them froÌ„ the bisshops of Rome And that as I haue ofte said proueth no superiority of gouernemeÌ„t in Ecclesiastical matters except by the same reason you wil make euery Patrone of a benefice to be supreme gouernour in all Ecclesiasticall matters to his owne Vicar and Curate The embarringe of Exactions from the Courte of Rome is nothing derogatorye from the Spiritual power or Iurisdiction of the Churche of Rome For they are not vtterly embarred but the excesse of theÌ„ is denied aÌ„d in any reasonable godly or vrgent cause of necessity they are graunted as your selfe alleage But to better a litle your badde cause you haue with a double vntruthe ended your allegation For where the King saieth Nisi de spontaneo expresso coÌ„sensu nostro not without our voluntary and expresse consent you turne it by our expresse bidding and commaundement and that it might seme to haÌ„ge of the Kings pleasure only you leaue out ipsarum Ecclesiarum regni nostri and of the Churches of our kingdom But what nede we lese more time in making more ample answer seing it is moste certaine that this Kinge and his realme acknowleadged the Popes Supremacye as muche then as euer since euen to this daye For where was your newe great Charles Friderike the seconde deposed from his Empire by Pope Innocentius the fourth but at Lyons in Fraunce And in whose Kinges dayes but of this Lewys Who defended many yeares together the Popes of Rome Innocentius the .4 Alexander the .4 Vrbanus the .4 and Clement the .4 againste the Emperour Frederike who therefore by treason went about to destroye him but this Kings Lewys Who warred him selfe in person againste the Sarracens at Thunys at Clement the Popes request but this Lewys Who also before that making his voyage into the holy laÌ„de against the SouldaÌ„ tooke benediction and absolution of Pope Innocentius the .4 lying theÌ„ at the Abbye of Cluny in Fraunce but this Lewys And did not the sayed Clement make by his Authoritye Charles this Lewys his brother King of Sicilia and Apulia And wil you make vs nowe beleue M. Horne that this Kinge was suche a Supreme Gouernour as you imagine Princes ought to be or that in his tyme the Popes Supremacy was accompted a forrayne power in Fraunce as it is with you in Englande No. No. M. Horne Seeke what age and what Countre you wil you shal neuer finde it while you liue M. Horne The .129 Diuision pag. 79. b. Conradus Conradinus and Manfredus .440 stil kepte the priuilege of the foresaide Ecclesiastical matters in Sicilia and Apulia Shortly after this tyme Charles the King of Sicilia and Apulia had .441 al or most of the dooing in the elelection and making of diuerse Popes as of Martyn .4 Celestyn .5 Boniface .8 c. Stapleton To these matters of Sicilie I haue already more then ones answered and doe now say again that this priuilege consisted only in inuesturing of bisshops graunted by Alexander the .3 and after reclaymed by Innocentius the .3 Whereby it wel appereth that this allegation maketh rather with the Popes Primacy then against it but most of all in this place For Pope Alexander the .4 declared this Manfredus the Romain Churches enemy as he was in dede and a traytour also both to Conradus his brother and to Conradinus his nephewe both inheritours to that kingdome both
of Martian the Emperour for calling of the Chalcedon Councell nextly alleaged M. Horns purpose is no whit furdered but Pope Leo his primacy euidently proued By the Actes also of the sayd Councell the popes and the bishops Supreme Iurisdiction in al ecclesiastical matters to be treated examined iudged and defined throughe out the whole Councel appeareth and M. Hornes purpose remayneth vtterly vnproued I haue farder out of the sayd Chalcedon Councell being the fourthe Generall and so one of the foure allowed in our Countre by Acte of parliament in the reigne of the Queenes Mai. present gathered euident and sundry argumentes for proufe of the Popes and bishops Supremacy in causes ecclesiasticall And here I require M. Horne or any mans els whatsoeuer to shewe howe it is possible without manifeste contradiction to allowe the Authorytie of this fourthe Generall Councel and to bannishe the Popes Authorytie which this whole Councel agnised or to geue to the Prince Supreme Authorytie in al ecclesiastical causes the same by this Councel resting in the bishops only not in the Prince at all In hath consequently ben shewed against M. Horne that his exāples of Leo and Zeno Emperours haue proued nothing lesse then his imagined Supremacy His next examples of three popes Simplicius Felix .3 and Symachus haue al proued so manifest testimonies for their owne Supremacy euen out of the bookes and places by M. Horne alleaged that in this matter he semeth a plaine preuaricatour and one secretly defending the cause which he seemeth openly to impugne Nowe in Fraunce M. Horne your lucke hath bene no better then before in the East Church and in Italy it was Your arguments in this behalfe haue bene to to pelting and miserable But the bishops Iurisdiction in all those matters hath bene as euident Your story of Iustinus the elder nextly by you alleaged but confusedly and out of measure mangled being wholy layed forthe hath plainely proued the popes Supremacy and nothing at al the princes Iustinian your next exaample and largely by you prosecuted hath neuer a whit proued your matter but for the Popes absolute Supremacy hath diuerse waies pronounced not onelye in his behauyour in the fifte Generall Councell but in his Edictes and Constitutions which you for your selfe so thicke haue alleaged In that place also I haue noted by diuerse exāples what euil successe Churche matters haue had whē Princes most intermedled Ther also by the way a Councell in Fraunce by M. Horne alleaged hath openly pronounced for the popes vniuersall Supremacy Your last examples taken out of Spayne haue nothinge relieued your badde cause but haue geuen euidēt witnesse for the Bishops Supremacy in ecclesiastical causes And thus farre haue you waded in the first .600 yeres after Christe without any one prouf for your newe Laicall Supremacy But for the popes and Bishops Supremacy in matters of the Church the Cōtinual practise of that first age and that in al Countres hath clerely pronounced as hath bene at large shewed In the third book as the race your runne is the longer ād triple to that ye ranne in before so is our cause the strōger and yours the febler or rather the wretcheder that in the cōpasse of .900 yeres that of so many Emperors kings and princes of so many Coūcels both General and National of so diuerse parts of the Christened worlde al the East part Italy Fraunce Spayne Germany and our own Countre of Englād yea of the Moscouites Armeniās and Aethyopiās to of all these I say not one Prince Councel or Coūtre maketh for you and not one prince Councell or Countre maketh against vs but all haue agnised the popes primacy and not one in the worlde of so many hundred yeres haue agnised or so muche as hearde of muche lesse sworen vnto the Princes Supreme Gouuernement in all Ecclesiasticall causes Your first proufe belyeth flatly the See of Rome and proueth nothing by any doing of Phocas the Emperour the Supremacy that you woulde proue The Kinges of Spayne and the Toletane Councelles haue made nothinge for you but haue clerely confounded you not only in the principal matters in hande but also in diuers other matters by your lewde heresies denied Your patched proufes and swarming vntruthes in your next narratiō touching certain Popes of Rome and of the Churche of Rauēna haue discouered the miserable wekenesse of your badde cause and nothing relieued yowe the Popes Primacy by your owne examples notwithstanding established Your fonde surmise against the Decree of Constantin .5 Emperour for the prerogatiue of the See Apostolike as it nothing furdered your matter in hande yf it had not bene made so it shewed wel the misery of your cause that to make your paradoxe to beare some credit you were fayne to discredit al the Historiās and writers of that matter calling them Papistes the Popes Parasites and fayners of that which they wrote The practise of Ecclesiasticall gouernement vsed in the sixt general Councel next by you alleaged cōfirmeth both in word and dede the Popes Primacy and the Bisshops Supreme iurisdiction in matters Ecclesiasticall and geueth forth no maner inckling of your imagined Supremacy In which only matter beside twenty vntruthes by you vttered there about you are as much confounded as in any other Councell or Countre before notwithstanding your great obiection of Pope Honorius to the which I haue there sufficiently aunswered Your talke of the three Kings of Spayne next ensewing and of the three Toletane Councells kept in their reignes doth so litle disproue the Supreme iurisdiction of Bisshops in Ecclesiastical causes that it maketh them Supreme iudges euen in ciuil causes So wide you are euer from prouing your purpose The .7 General Councel by you shortly noted doth amply and abundantly confirme the Popes Primacy and nothing in the worlde helpeth your purpose Charles Martel ād Carolomanus his sonne exercised no whit of your imagined Supremacy but haue cōfessed both clerely the Popes Primacy by their doings euē in the matters by your self treated Your most ignorant and ridiculous exposition made of the keyes of S. Peters Confession sent to this Charles and your extreme fonde argument deducted thereof hath vtterly shamed you yf any shame be in you Your slaunderous reproches against S. Augustine our Apostle and S. Boniface the Apostle of Germany and holye Martyr haue redounded to your owne shame and follye your cause thereby nothing in the worlde furdered No yf yt had bene all true which you hadde reported of them Charlemayne for all his callinge of Councelles confirmynge of the same and publishinge of Churche Lawes practised not yet anye like Gouuernement in Ecclesiasticall causes as you haue defended no nor anye Gouuernement at all but was lead and gouerned him selfe in all suche thinges of the Fathers and Bisshoppes then liuing especiallye of the See of Rome The whole Order also of the Councelles by you alleaged
antecedent doth comprehende vvhich is such an euill fauoured forme of argument that yonge studentes in the scholes vvoulde be ashamed therof The Donatistes made the like obiectiō against the catholique fathers vvherto S. Augustine maketh ansvvere The state of the Apostles time is otherwise to be thought of than this time all thinges muste be doon in their time In the Apostles time this prophecy was yet in fulfillīg wherfore do the Heathē rage ād the people muse vpō vaine thinges The kinges of the earth set them selues and the Princes consult together against the Lorde and his Christ. As yet that was not in hande which is spoken a litle after in the same psalme and nowe ye kings vnderstand be learned ye Iudges on the earth serue the Lorde in feare and ioy in him with reuerēce Therfore seing that as yet in the Apostles time kinges serued not the Lorde but still did deuise vaine thinges against God and his Christ that al the foresayinges of the Prophete might be fulfilled than truely impieties coulde not be inhibited by prīces Lawes but rather be mainteyned For such was the order of the times that both the Iewes shoulde kill the preachers of Christ thinking to doo God good seruice therin as Christ had forspoken and also the gentiles shoulde rage against the Christians that the martyrs might winne the victory thorough pacience But after that this began to be fulfilled which is writen And al the kinges of the earth shal woorship him and al the nations shal serue him what man onlesse he be not wel in his wittes wil say that Kinges ought not to haue a special regarde for the Church of Christ and al manner godlines amongest their subiectes Stapleton We haue declared that M. Fekenham his saying of Cōstantinus the great and the first Christian king may be born in a right good sense ād also that he speaketh therein agreable to most auncient and lerned writers And if he were deceyued as ye write by ignorance and want of reading which is of your part a mere slaūderous lye the pyth yet of his argument standing vppon the saying of S. Paule is nothinge therby blemished And of al men you may worse lay ignorance to his charge that haue vttered in this very parte and parcel of your answere not only so much grosse ignorance but so exceding and cākred malice especially in the story of king Lucius And here also yet ones againe to compare M. Fekenham with the Donatists for framing an argument frō the vse and exāples of the Apostles and of the primitiue Churche wherein beside your malice you bewraye your owne vnskilfulnes For this redoundeth altogether vppon you and your owne fellowes For wherein resteth all your eloquence against the Catholike Churche but that it is not conformable nowe to Christes and the Apostles tyme and to the primitiue Churche Namely touching inuocation of Saints suffrages for the dead touching adoratiō and eleuation of the blessed Eucharistia the minglinge of water and wyne receyuing vnder one kinde sole receyuing and a number of the like Yea and before that any Prince woulde say or doe for you you coulde M. Horne with your fellowes play the Donatists in dede and inueigh against the tēporalties of Bishops agaīst their lordely trayne and reuenewes because forsoth the Apostles were poore and vsed no such ioylyte But nowe who more ioyly then M. Horne himselfe or who more lordely then your Lordships are Again what is more vsual with M. Nowel a man I trowe of a rare Spirit then to make this tyme the tyme of the primityue Churche that we be the Pharisees and they forsoth the Apostles That nowe we may not prescribe with Antiquity Traditions or Consent of our Elders against them because the Scribes and Pharisees prescribed so against Christ and his Apostles What then Is Luther their Messias and Caluin their Paule But to returne to our matter Though already the Catholiks haue sufficiently answered to al these reasons yet now haue we gotten at your hands an answere for this and all the like that to argue frō the Apostles tyme to our tyme is a fallax à dicto secundū quid ad simpliciter that it is an yl fauored forme of argumente that yonge studientes in the scholes woulde be asshamed of and to be shorte that it is a reason of the Donatistes aunswered and confuted by S. Augustine It is alredy M. Horne sufficiently by vs declared that the Donatistes cause and S. Augustines aunswere to them hath no maner affinity with M. Fekenham his reason They denied that princes had any thing at al to doe in matters of the Churche or in punisshing those that breake the Ecclesiasticall lawes M. Fekenham denieth not but that Princes may lawfully punishe heretikes by lawes He confesseth also that Princes may wel and commendably medle as ministers ayders and as assisters by their temporal sworde for the furderance and mayntenance of Ecclesiastical matters but not to rule and prescribe as the chief gouernours of all causes Ecclesiastical I must tel you againe M. Horne There is great difference betwene staring and starke blind And as busie as ye are now again with the Donatists ye lacked a litle salt of discretiō in alleaging of this place of S. Augustine For this confirmeth M. Fekenhams former saying that in Christes ād the Apostoles tyme ther were no Christian Princes In the Apostles tyme saith S. Augustine as your self report his words Kings serued not the Lorde but did deuise vayne things against God and his Christ. And here might a man now that would follow your vayne and humour encounter with S. Augustine and obiect vnto him King Abgarus and the thre Kings that came to honour Christes natiuity ād such other But though they had ben greater Kīgs thē they were and that there had ben some few other lords or Kings to that did serue Christ yet would no wise man for the cause by me before rehersed quarrell with S. Augustine For a general rule is not by one exception or two notably blemisshed or impayred Such kinde of phrases are to be foūde aswel otherwhere as in holy scripture As wher it saith that the whole worlde was described by the Emperor Augustus And yet is it wel knowen that he had nothing to doe with a great part of the worlde It is writen also that all the people of Israel did murmure and yet all did not murmure Such kinde of phrases are verefied of the greater or the more notable parte M. Horne The .156 Diuision pag. 95. a. You frame an other reason vpon S. Paules vvords vnto the bisshops of Ephesus vvhereby to proue that al gouernement in spiritual or ecclesiastical causes belōgeth to Bisshops and Priests and not to Princes and Ciuil Magistrats thus you argue The holy ghost appointed al spiritual gouernement of Christes flocke vnto Bisshops and Priests as the vvords spokē by S. Paule doe make full and perfect declaration Ergo Kings Queenes
disposed he saith this ArgumeÌ„t is much like as if a yong Nouice shuld reason thus NuÌ„nes must kepe sileÌ„ce in the Cloisture therfore the Prioresses haue not the gouernment in NuÌ„nish causes and matters CoÌ„cerning the first part of his answere I say that the argument is good aÌ„d sufficieÌ„t For if teaching preaching and disputing in matters of religioÌ„ be causes and matters ecclesiastical and if womeÌ„ be imbarred froÌ„ this then is there a sufficieÌ„t cause why M. Fekenham may not take this othe that a woman is supreme head in al causes spiritual aÌ„d ecclesiastical Namely to erect and enact a new and proper religioÌ„ throughout her realme by the vertue of her own proper and supreme gouernmeÌ„t For to this end M. Horn is the othe teÌ„dâ—ed It is to euideÌ„t It can not be dissembled Againe the said place of S. Paul is of the order and maÌ„ner of expouÌ„ding of scripture as it appeareth by the text If then S. Paul forbiddeth a woman to expouÌ„d scripture how can a woman take vpon her to be the chief iudge of al those that expouÌ„d the scripture I mean in that very office of expouÌ„ding Scripture in decreeiÌ„g determining and enacting what religion what beliefe what doctrine shal take place And such shee must nedes be if she be a supreme head Suche do you and your fellowes make her Such authority you M. Horn throughout all this boke attribute to your new supreme heads Emperours and KiÌ„gs by you alleaged You make them to preache to teache and to prescribe to the Bishops in their CouÌ„cels what and how they shal do in their ecclesiasticall matters If then by you a supreme Gouerner in ecclesiastical maters must be so qualified as to be present in Councels of Bishops to prescribe rules for the Bishops to follow to determine what they shal do and to coÌ„firme by royal asseÌ„t the decrees of bishops yea and to make them selues decrees and coÌ„stitutions ecclesiastical but a woman by S. Paule may not ones speake in the Church that is in the CoÌ„gregatioÌ„ or assembly of the faithful and by you a womaÌ„ may not preache teach or dispute vndoubtedly both by S. Paul and by your own coÌ„fession a womaÌ„ can not be a supreme Gouernour such as the Othe forceth meÌ„ to swere I say supreme gouernour in al ecclesiastical causes No nor in so many causes by a great deale as you pretend in this your booke other Kings and Princes to haue practised supreme gouernmeÌ„t in CoÌ„sider now M. Horne how it may staÌ„d with S. Paules doctrine that a woman may be a supreme gouerner in al ecclesiastical causes namely such as you in this boke would make your Reader beleue that al Emperours Kings and Princes hitherto haue bene Now put the case as we saw it viij yeres past that in a doubtful matter of doctrine and religion to be tried by scripture the whole number of bishops agree vpoÌ„ some determinate and resolute exposition with their Clergie and would by an Ecclesiastical law of CoÌ„uocation or Councel set forth the same Al their resolutioÌ„ and determination is not worth a rush by your Othe and by your maner of talke in this booke if the Prince doe not allowe and coÌ„firme the same And how this wil staÌ„d with S. Paul in this chapter tel vs I pray you presupposing as the statute requireth that the Princes allowing though she be a woman is necessary And now are ye come to thâ—s point and driueÌ„ therto by the force of this place to say that the place doth not proue but a womaÌ„ may haue some gouernmeÌ„t in ecclesiastical causes As though the QuestioÌ„ were now of some gouernmeÌ„t only and not of Supreme and absolute Gouernment in al maner thinges and causes ecclesiastical If therefore this place do proue that a womaÌ„ hath not the Supreme and absolute gouernement in all causes ecclesiasticall but that in some and them the chiefest she must holde her peace as yt doth euideÌ„tly and ye can not denie yt then is M. Fekenham free froÌ„ taking the othe of the supremacy and then hath S. Paule vtterly confuted that Othe and your whole booke withal This I say also as by the way that yf this chapter must be taken for teaching preaching and disputing as M. Horne saith and truely that M. Iewell went far wide froÌ„ S. Paules meaning when he applied yt to the coÌ„mon seruice of the Church whereof it is no more meaÌ„t theÌ„ of the coÌ„moÌ„ talke in tauernes As for M. Hornes secoÌ„d mery mad obiectioÌ„ no maÌ„ is so mad to make such an argumeÌ„t but hiÌ„self And therfore he may as long and as iolily as he wil triuÌ„ph with him self in his own folly Yet I would wish M. Horne to speake wel of Nunnes were it but for his grandsir Luthers sake and the heaueÌ„ly coniunctioÌ„ of him and a Nonne together Which vnhappy coÌ„iunction of that VulcaÌ„ and Venus engeÌ„dred the vnhappy brood of M. Horn aÌ„d his felowes But that this folish fond argumeÌ„t is nothing like to M. FekenhaÌ„s argumente yt may easely be proceiued by that we haue alredy and sufficiently sayde M. Fekenham The .159 Diuision pag. 98. a. The third chiefe point is that I must not only sweare vpon the Euangelists that no foraine personne state or potentate hath or ought to haue any power or authoritie Ecclesiastical or Spiritual within this Realme but also by vertue of the same Othe I must renounce all forraine power and authorities which for a Christian man to doe is directly against these two Articles of our Crede Credo sanctaÌ„ ecclesiaÌ„ CatholicaÌ„ I do beleue the holy catholik â—hurch Credo SanctoruÌ„ coÌ„munioneÌ„ I do beleue the coÌ„munioÌ„ of saints And that there is a participatioÌ„ and coÌ„munion amongest al the beleuers of Christes Church which of the Apostle Paule are called Saincts Adiuro vos per DominuÌ„ vt legatur haec Epistola omnibus sanctis fratribus And herin I do ioyne this issue with your L. that whaÌ„ your L. shal be able to proue by Scripture Doctor General CouÌ„cell or by the coÌ„tinual practise of any one Church or part of al ChristeÌ„dome that by the first Article I beleue the holy Catholik Church is meant only that there is a Catholike Church of Christ and not so that by the same article euery ChristiaÌ„ man is bound to be subiect and obedient to the Catholike Church like as euery member ought to haue obedieÌ„ce vnto the whole mystical bodie of Christ. And further when you shall be hable to proue by the second Article I dooe beleue the Communion of Saints is not so meante that a Christian man oughte to beleeue such attonement suche a participation and communion to be amongest al beleeuers and members of Christes Catholike Churche in doctrine in faith in Religion and Sacramentes but that it is laufull for vs of this Realme therein to dissent from the Catholike Churche of Christe dispersed in all other Realmes and that by a corporal Othe it is laufull for
a thīg most probable For ye make the very same resolutions to hym euen in this your answere also For doe ye not expressely say a fewe leaues before that princes neither do nor may claime to preache the word of God to minister the Sacramentes or to bynde and lose Do ye not say that this is a spirituall gouernement and rule belonging onely to the bishops and Church rulers Do ye not confesse within 4. leaues followinge the lyke And that Bisshoppes haue the spirituall Iurisdistion ouer theire flocke by the expresse worde of God and that thereby Princes haue not all maner of spiritual gouerment Is not this agreable to the resolutiōs that M. Fekenham saith he receyued at your handes Again M. Fenkenham addeth that in your said resolutions ye saye that the authority to excommunicate is not properly perteyning to Princes but apperteyneth to the whole cōgregation aswell as to them Doe ye not confesse I pray you the same twise in your answere immediatly following after this Why say you then that these resolutiōs are feyned by M. Fekenham Why should any man thinke that M. Fekēham should falsly charge you with these resolutiōs in priuat conference that your self in your own book doe so plainly and openly auouche Why should not men thinke also such other things as ye here charge M. Fekenham withall to be vntrue seing that ye doe so falsly accuse M. Feken for framing resolutions in your name that are your own in very dede Or why should any man trust you in these greate and weighty matters which ye hādle that ye speake ye cā not tel what bursting out into such open and fowle contradictions as yt would astone any wise man to consider them attributing to the Quenes Maie the supremacy in al spiritual causes or things without exception and yet your self excepting diuerse things spiritual and geuing the supremacy of them to the cleargy I woulde fayne know of you that so lately ruffled so freshly with your oppositiō contrary relatyue priuatiue and disparatyue and with your propositions contrary subcontrary subalterne and cōtradictory yf a man man may fynd a more fowle contradiction thē this I now laye before you out of your own booke You say first fol. 104. b. in fine When I adde this supremacy to be in all spiritual causes or things I shewe an vniuersall comprehensiō without exception For yf ye except or take away any thing it is not all Hereof ariseth this vniuersal affirmatiue Al spiritual causes without exceptiō are vnder the supreme Gouuerment of Princes Item you say fol 96. b. To feede the Church with Gods worde to minister Christes Sacramētes and to bind and lose fol. 97. a. Kings Queenes ād Princes may not neither doe clayme or take vpon thē this kind of spiritual gouernement and rule or any part thereof c. Hereof ariseth this particular negatiue Some spiritual causes are not vnder the Supreme Gouernement of Princes Now let vs cōsider in what kind of opposition these your two propositions do repugne Thus stande the oppositions All spirituall causes without exceptiō are vnder the Supreme Gouernemēt of Prīces Contrary No spiritual causes at all are vnder the Supreme gouerment of Princes Subalterne CONTRADICTORY CONTRADICTORY Subalterne Some spiritual causes are vnder the Supreme gouerment of Princes Subcontrary Some spiritual causes are not vnder the supreme gouernement of Princes By this it appereth that your two propositions do stāde in the extremest kind of al oppositions which is Contradiction And though this be a poore sely and an insufficient shifte to make such resolutions yet is it the beste ye may nowe fynde to qualifie and mitigate the general words of the statute Which in dede are so general and peremptorie that they may in no wise be borne without some qualification Which is nowe so notoriouse that there is a qualification made in the Quenes Maie iniunctions that men should not take the general clause so largely as to collect thereby that the Kings or Quenes of our realm may challēge authority ād power of ministerie in the diuine offices in the Church Which doth agree with your resolutions and therefore there is no cause in the worlde why ye should deny them to be yours and say that they be falsly and slaunderouslye fayned vpō you by M. Fekēhā vttering his owne peuish cauillatiōs as ye say vnder the name of your resolutiōs Nowe though this be a necessary interpretatiō and moderatiō yet this doth not take away the scruple that remaineth staying M. Fekenhā and other to in taking the said othe for that this interpretatiō is not made by acte of parliament as the statute was Neither doth the Acte or Statute referre it self to any such Iniunctions to be made for the qualificatiō or restrayning of any thinge in the Acte or in any braunche thereof cōtayned no more then it doth to M. Horns book Neither hath any Iniūction by the lawe of our Realme any force to restrain weakē or mollifie the rigour or generality of an Acte of parliamēt And in case it had yet ther remain many other as great scruples Namely that swearing to all causes the prīcipal causes are excepted and so he that sweareth forsweareth and beside that al ecclesiastical authority aswel of the sea of Rome as of al general coūcels is euidētly abolisshed by the said statut And in as much as general Coūcels do beare ād represent the parson of the whole Church wherof the Pope is head no Christiā mā ought to receyue such othe imploying the denial of the authority of the Pope the head and of the whole body of the Churche beside The .162 Diuision pag. 104. b. M. Fekenham Hereunto I did make this obiection following These woordes of the first part of the othe I.A.B. doe vtterly testifie and declare in my conscience that the Q. Highnes is the only supreme gouernour of this Realme as well in all Spiritual or Ecclesiasticall thinges or causes as Temporal besides the particulars expressed in your L. interpretation made thereof they doe by expresse woordes of the acte geue vnto the Queenes highnes al maner of iurisdictions priuileges and preeminences in any wise touchinge and concerninge any Spirituall or Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction within the Realme with an expresse debarre and flat denial made of al Spiritual iurisdiction vnto the Bisshops therof to be exercised ouer their flocks and cures without her highnes Special commission to be graunted thereunto They hauing by the expresse worde of God commission of Spiritual gouernement ouer them Commission to lose and bind their sinnes Commission to shut and open the gates of heauen to them Commission to geue vnto them the holy ghost by the imposition of their handes And they hauing by the expresse woorde of God such a daungerous cure and charge ouer their soules that God hath threatned to require the bloud of such as shall perishe at their handes Notwithstanding these and many such other like cōmissions graunted vnto
vntruthe for by â—ou they may take al vpoÌ„ them ergo this also The .535 vntruthe mere slauÌ„derous Concerning this vvorde Priest Exod. 28. Ioelis 1. Vlulate Ministri altaris Hiere 33. Sacerdotes Ministri mei Heb. 10. Act. 13. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Augu lib. 20. de Ciuitate Dei cap. 10. Hebr. 7. Oecumenius sentence of the sayd sacrifice Sacerdos in aeternuÌ„ Psal. 19. Tu es sacerdos in aeternuÌ„ secunduÌ„ ordineÌ„ Melchisedech Consider M. Ievvels ansvvere to the sayed Oecumenius M. Ievvels hypocritall dissimulation In his reply fo 75. Ievvell fol. 503. Vid. 2. CoÌ„c Nicenum actio 4. Non. 1. vt in Ievvell pag. 517. Fol. 580. Nos Christiani propemodum quid sit ara quid sit victima nescimus Nicenae 2. synodi Act. 4. fol. 517. col 2. Pudore sufsundantur Iudaei qui proprios reges et alienos adoraÌ„tes nos Christianos taÌ„quam idololatras irrident Nos auÌ„t Christiani oiÌ„bus in ciuitatib regionib indies et in horas singulas coÌ„tra idola stamus armati coÌ„tra idola psallimê° coÌ„tra idola preces fundimê° Et qua taÌ„dem fronte Iudaei nos vocant idololatras Vbi nunc sunt quae olim ab istis oblatae sunt idolis bouÌ„ ouiuÌ„ filiorum quoque victimae vbi sacrificioruÌ„ fumi vbi arae et perfusioÌ„es sanguinuÌ„ Nos verò Christiani propemodum quid sit ara quid sit victima ignoramus M. Horn. denying the sacrifice maketh a playne vvay for Antichriste Daniel 12. Quum ablatum fuerit iuge sacrificium Aug. de ciuit Dei lib. 20. ca. 23. 29. Prosper de diuinis pro niss praedict dimid temp cap. 13. Hier. in dict cap. 12. Primas in apoc li. 3. cap. 11. Greg. l 32. in Iob. 14. An ansvvere to M. Horne for M. FekeÌ„haÌ„s traÌ„slating of the vvord 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Pascere vel regere 2. Reg. 5. Tâ— pasces â—opulum meuÌ„ Israel iueris dux super Israeel Cui praecept vt pasceret populum meuÌ„ ca. 7. Psalm 77 pauit eos in innoceÌ„tia cordis sui So dothe also the Englishe traÌ„slation of the nevv testament pâ—iÌ„ted at zuricâ—â—n .1550 In his Replie pag. 239. The shepherdes office resembleth most properly the Bishopes Office Genes 31. Chrysostoms saiyngs touching the spirituall gouernement Lib. 3. de dignitate Sacâ—rdotij IbideÌ„ li. 6. Porrò illuÌ„ ipsuÌ„ oportet tantò oiÌ„bs rebus illis pÌ„stare ê“ quib intercedit quaÌ„tò pareÌ„ vt subditos praefectus excellat CuÌ„ auÌ„t ille spiritum SanctuÌ„ inuocauerit sacrificiuÌ„que illud horrore ac reuereÌ„tia plenissimuÌ„ perfecerit coÌ„muni omniuÌ„ manibus assidue pertractato quaero ex te cat Locus altari vicinus in illius honoreÌ„ ê— imolatur angeloruÌ„ choris plenus est Id quod credere abuÌ„de licet vel ex tanto illo sacrificio quod tuÌ„ peragitur Iliad â— The Princes supremacy ouâ—rthrowen by that that M. Horne him selfe grauÌ„teth De correptione gratia c. 3 De fide operibus Cap. 2. Cùm in Ecclesiae disciplina visibilis fuerat gladius cessaturus De correp gratia Cap. 15. Conâ—ra â—duersur legis prophetarum lib. 1. Cap. 17. Luc. 12. Math. 10. c. 28 Augustin vt suprà De fide operibus Cap. 2. Act. 20. De ciuit Dei li. 20. cap. 10. See the force of truthe Heb. 13. The .536 vntruth As before in the 531 532. and 533. vntruthes The 537. vntruth Your assertion is thereby vtterly iÌ„proued and ouerthrowen for then the priÌ„ce is not supreame gouernor in all causes M. FeckeÌ„hams .2 reason Hebre. 13. In Comm. Ibidem 1. Reg. 2. Vide Dionysium 1. reg 2. Augustin epist. 50. 1. Cor. 4. 5. Epiphan haeres 42. li. 1. tom 3 Augustin de verbis Dom. sec. IoaÌ„ serm 34. Ezech. 34. In lib. de pastoribus Cap. 10.11 13. 1. Cor. 14. Gen. 3. The .538 vntruthe M Feckenham reasoneth not so But thus Therefore vvomen can not take vppon them the Supreame gouernement in all causes c. The .539 vntruthe The argument is nothing like The .540 vntruthe This argument is made vvith good and greate consideration as shall appeare M. FeckeÌ„hams 3. reason 1. Cor. 14. The .541 vntruth It conteineth an argumeÌ„t that M Horne shal neuer assoyle The 542. vntruth Slaunderous and iniurious The .543 vntruth For they are 2. diuers articles not one ClemeÌ„s in compend de fide The .544 vntruth The coÌ„moÌ„ opinioÌ„ of lerned meÌ„ rekoneth more theÌ„ 12. Articles The .545 vntruth As before The .546 vntruth They are plaine coÌ„tradictory one to an other as shal appeare The .547 vntruth ioyned vvith impiety The catholike Churche that you by othe renouÌ„ce is the Church of Christe not of antichrist The definition of the catholique Churche* vnperfect as shall appeare The .548 vntruth You haue no agreâ—ment consent or vnite of doctrine amoÌ„ge your selues The .549 vntruth mere slanderous The 550. vntruth M. FekeÌ„haÌ„ saied not so of the Realme The 551. vntruth It is right true that in effect you do so as it shall appeare The .552 vntruth For M. Fekenham saied not that it is so but that by Othe you make it so vvhich is true as it shal be proued The .553 vntruth Notorious The Othe speaketh of Euery foraine Prelate not of a foraine prelat You are novv ashamed your selfe of the Othe M. Horne The 3. chief pointe In hoc coÌ„muniter coÌ„cordant Theologi canonistae Gull Linvvood in coÌ„stit prouinc de summae trinit ca. 1. §. item alij D. Thom. 2.2 q. 1. Arti 8. Host. Io. And. in rub de sum trinitate Ruffinus iÌ„ symbolo M. Horne depraueth M. FekenhaÌ„s argumeÌ„t The othe coÌ„trarye to an Article of our crede An other contradiction betvveÌ„ the Othe and an article of our Creede VVat it is to renouÌ„ce the authorite of euery forrayn prelate Confes. lib. 3. Cap. 8. Epist. 118. ad Ianua Beda lib. 1. cap. 17. Bed lib. 2. cap. 4. Idem lib. eodem ca. 19. Epist. 48. ad Vincentium CoÌ„t Dona. post collationeÌ„ ca. 4 Lib. de vnitat Ecclesiae c. 4. Act. 4. pag. 304. 306. To. 2. Concil M FekenhaÌ„ clered A foule shift vsed by M. Horne M. Horns definitioÌ„ of the Churche M. Horns Church coÌ„pared to the schismatical temple of Samaria Iosephus de bello In daico li. 7. ca. 30. de Antiq. lib. 11. ca. vltimo Ioan. 4. Deut. 12. 2. paral 7. Iosephus antiq l. 11. cap. vlt. Lib. 12. ca. 1. Ant. IdeÌ„ lib. 13. ca. 6. Ant. Nevves out of FlauÌ„dreâ— for M. Horn and his brethern Vide FranciscuÌ„ PhilippuÌ„ Surium Galat. 1. In CoÌ„fut Ministrorum Antvverp fol. 92. 93 Vide Tiletani praesat ad SenatuÌ„ Antvverp 1. Cor. 14. The .554 vntruth It is not lauful for any PriÌ„ce to take it The .555 vntruth Horible and Protestante lyke The .556 vntruth Extreme slaunderous as al the world knoweth yea M. Horne him self The .557 vntruth The companie of catholykes is