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A19713 Pasquine in a traunce a Christian and learned dialogue (contayning wonderfull and most strange newes out of heauen, purgatorie, and hell) wherein besydes Christes truth playnely set forth, ye shall also finde a numbre of pleasaunt hystories, discouering all the crafty conueyaunces of Antechrist. Whereunto are added certayne questions then put forth by Pasquine, to haue bene disputed in the Councell of Trent. Turned but lately out of the Italian into this tongue, by W.P. Seene allowed [sic] according to the order appointed in the Queenes Maiesties iniunctions.; Pasquillus ecstaticus. English Curione, Celio Secondo, 1503-1569.; Page, William, fl. 1566.; Painter, William, 1540?-1594, attributed name.; Phiston, William, attributed name. 1566 (1566) STC 6130; ESTC S109155 162,493 234

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therfore al in a great sturre a Romane Abbot stode vp and sayd heare ye fathers know ye not that it is not lawfull to bring the wiues of the olde Testament into the newe but it behoueth vs that in steade of wyues we haue benefices and fat liuings inough Therefore will I that ye vnderstand that place thus Let the Byshop be the husbande of one vvife that is to say let him haue at the least one benefice And so shall we finde a place for our Byshop And as for the rest that troubleth you so muche care ye not at all for he néede not care whether he hath one wife of his owne that may haue wiues inoughe of other mens Marforius O there was a good Doctour Pasquine Euen such as be all But among the rest I sawe one that is accoumpted a piller of the Church who ranne so at randon through out the whole Gospell and with such boldnesse that he set all at hauocke Afterward he gaue him selfe to write against Matrimony then after that he opened his clothes before him and began to knock him selfe on the breast and that done he stoode vp and helde the forme or proportion of a Church in his hande Marforius Why did he beate him selfe Pasquine Bycause he did that which God commaunded not as he had done against that which God had cōmaūded that is to say speaking against Matrimonie Marforius Knowest y ● not the names of any of them Pasquine Yes and if I recken them to thée thou wouldest wonder at it but I will name one or two of them to thée bycause I will not léese so much time for I haue many other things to tel thée There was Thomas of Aquine who sought if it were possible to defend his disputation De Dulia Hyperdulia Marforius I remember that disputation It is vengeaunce subtile Pasquine Who knoweth not that he had nede worke subtillye that will make all men beleue that vnder the forme of the Diuell a man may worship Christ And that is when as vnder the figure or Image of the diuel which thou séest before thée thou doest for all that Imagine with thy selfe that there is Christ and yet meanest thou not to worshippe that figure or stocke which is in thy sight but Christ whom thou hast vnder that figure conceyued in thy minde Marforius How can that be done Pasquine Howe coulde it be done in the olde time that when they offered an Oxe conceyued God in their imgination and vnder the Image of that Oxe worshipped him Thinkest thou that men haue at any tyme bene so foolishe that they thought that an Oxe was God and notwithstanding that there was no maner of resemblaunce in the worlde betwene an Oxe and God they conceyued for al that God in their imagination through the Image of that Calfe and being so conceyued did worship him And this is y ● subtile Hyperdulia of Thomas Aquine that thou ioyne God with a stocke and that thou worship the stock as God euen as the Iewes worshipped the Oxe for God Marforius This is in dede a very subtile but no Christian opinion Pasquine And yet is it defended in these dayes as an article of our faith Marforius I knowe that they will maintaine all such things as ought to be condempned cōdemyne all such as ought to be maintayned Pasquine This therfore was it which Saint Thomas of Aquine so botched vp for if the truth of his matter mighte be knowen abrode their carued stockes their pictures their Images their paintinges and their Idolls all would be in great daunger the gaine that is gotten thereby would sone he at an ende Marforius Thou sayest the very truth for euen for the religious care of their gaine not for any other cause doe the Priestes séeke to maintaine all that which God so much forbiddeth Pasquine Harde beside Thomas Aquine I saw his master sit to whome all the rest of his order vsed much reuerence Marforius Howe was he called Pasquine Me thought they called him Albertus Magus Marforius I know not who that should be Pasquine It is that holy Doctor whiche so profoundlye disputch of the secrets of women Marforius Thou vnderstodest them not wel he is called Albertus Magnus and not Magus who wrote also of the wonders of the worlde Pasquine It may be that I mistoke it albeit he may be called after which sorte you will for he was without cause called Magnus being a maruellous great Doctor and a great Magician Marforius And what did his Disciples there with him Pasquin They were entreating of him that he would goe Ambassador to the City of Coleyn Marforius For what purpose Pasquine Bycause it was sayde that the Byshop there fauoured to much the Gospell and did as became a true shepherde and went about with the helpe of Bucer Melanchton to reforme his Church according to the rule of the Gospell Marforius But what would they haue had Maister Albert doe there Pasquine That he should séeke if it were possible to let y ● going forward of so holy a worke But he might haue gone thither and haue lost all his labour for albeit the City stande somewhat stiffe the shéepe for all that will follow their good shepherde Marforius Of such good Bishops should they much nede who hitherto haue bene deceyued by these false Gods But sawest thou any of those newe Doctours Pasquine Whom meanest thou to be the new Doctours Marforius Fysher B. of Rochester Ecchius Pighius Albert of Vdine Byshop of Chioggia Pasquine Rochester is not only a Doctour but also a Martir therfore shall we finde him in the Quéere of the Martirs But Iohn Ecchius and Pighius I saw not and by that I coulde learne they were yet kept in their Purgatory which they so stoutly defended Marforius Why are those defendours of Purgatorye serued with the same sause for their labour Pasquine I pray God they be not cast into the bottomelesse pitte of euerlasting fire for none can defende other Purgatory than Christes bloude without cruell iniurie and blasphemie to Christ for so it happeneth to such as serue cruel Tyrannes turnes that they them selues first féele the smart of their wicked deseruings Perillus Bull may teach them Marforius But doest thou thinke that they shall at any tyme come vp hither and be placed among the Gods Pasquine Of Pighius I dare not say bycause he is much estéemed among those Gods for his eloquence and singuler learning But sure I thinke that Ecchius shall neuer be able to climbe to heauen Marforius And why not Pasquine Bycause he had a fowle great paunch that hong a foote a halfe ouer his Codpiece and that will be a great let to him And thou knowest Marforius that naturall writers affirme that heauy things of their owne nature go down to the Centre which thing he right wel vnderstoode that made his
ten yeres long a Spaniard called Iohn Valdesse being one of Cesars knightes now became Christes knight and many other all whiche with much strength were digging away the foundation Marforius This heauen then standeth in great daunger of falling Pasquine I thinke surelye that it will shortly come to naught bycause it hath the foūdations of it very weake and made with little skill for so great a building Marforius Diddest thou sée I pray thée of what stuffe those foundations were made Pasquine What I saw inough of it for those that digged shewed me of it for a miracle wondering how it shoulde be possible that so great a City should stand so long vpright Marforius Tel me I pray thée a little what stuffe was it whereof the foundations were made Pasquine There were Hoodes Beades sluttishe and filthy Garmentes knotted Coardes for girdels shauen Cr●wnes Nonnes vales and a thousand sundry sortes of garmentes as many of shooes as many of Cappes a thousand sundry colours there were also rotten fishe al sortes of hearbes al kindes of graine for potage Byshops Myters triple Crownes Hattes redde and gréene Pardons Candels dyuers bookes and such other thinges all which were tempered together with a softe kind of stone with Lime and this was the base or foote of all their foundations the which bycause it shoulde not come out belowe for that it is a very soft kind of stuffe was therfore holden vp with foure rankes of walles the firste of which walles was called Superstition the seconde Pride the third Ignorance the fourth Hipocrisie and betwene the one and the other of these walles was it full of that stuffe whereof the foundations are It is not therfore to be doubted but that this building must nedes come to ruine for there is a wonderfull disconuenience betwene the sleightnesse of the stuffe wherewith it is builded and the greatnesse of the waight of the whole building besides that bycause there raigneth an exceding couetousnesse among them and thei bestow no more mony in building but all heape together great summes of mony like suche as are sone ready to forsake their owne Cuntrey and to go dwel else where To returne nowe vnto my first purpose sith thou hast nowe vnderstode the whole matter concerning the Mynes of the buildings of this place This Pioner ledde vs to a certaine Caue through the which a man might beholde al the City and it was so croked that it would not make any man suspect that matter which before I tolde thée Being come thither I began to say to my selfe what if the olde Carle espy that thou arte entered in at this caue sith he woulde not let thée come in at his gate howe wilte thou then do and thinking thus I bit my nayles the Aungell perceyued it and after he had both demaunded and vnderstoode the cause of my standing so in a study he byd me that I shoulde be of good chéere affirming that here men must be past shame as courtiers are who runne without shame to the Table and without any reuerence euen so must he do that will goe and beholde these places His counsell lyked me and so taking courage I came out of the Caue Marforius I am glad thou foundst so commodious an entring but tell me are they all Saintes that be there Pasquine In name they are all Saintes that be there but by their looke and by their maners they be very vnlyke Saintes Marforius What is the cause Pasquine I know not but by that the Aungel tolde me they are Diuelles in forme of Saintes that vnder this couerture deceyue the worlde And if we will consider wel the place it séemed rather to be a Market or a Court than a heauen for there were dyuers broade places where Fayres and Martes were kept as a man may sée in this Towne in Milaine in Venice and in great Cities Marforius Paint me out I pray thée the Citye and the occupations of those that dwell in it Pasquine Being now entred through the Mynes we founde that in the firste streate dwelled Monkes and Eremites as in the lowest parte of the City Marforius Oh thou must nedes haue séene there many worshipfull fathers Pasquine Thou mayst be sure of that There were all the Manducantes or Mendicantes the Augustians or Augustinians Carnalitanes or Carmelitanes Demonicanes or Dominicanes Fraudiscanes or Franciscanes and the Cerui or Serui the Benebibenes or Benedictines Caprusianes or Cartusianes and an infinite sorte of such Marforius But diddest thou sée Sainct Fraunces Pasquine I sawe him not one tolde me that he was gone to fishe for soules out of purgatory angling for them with his girdle of Corde and an other tolde me that he was called to the counscll where there was talking of a Monasterie that was erecting in the honour of hym Marforius Who made him that Monastery Pasquine A certaine Gentlewoman of Pulia who hauing hir husband in great hatred went and made hir self of the thirde rule of saint Fraunces that she might be the more at large from hir husband and by the order of the same rule she tooke for hir Sonne by adoption a certaine yong lusty Frier who handled hir in such sorte as both hir heart fayled hir and hir pursse shronke when the Monastery was half way onward Marforius The selfe same thing happened when I studied at Bononie that a sonne adopted in this sorte consumed al his mothers substance Pasquine Was he not punished therfore by the iustice Marforius I can not tell thée but this I knowe wel that the gentlewomā caused him to appeare before the Bentiuoli who were then Lordes of Bononie there was good laughing at it but what afterwarde came to passe I knowe not Pasquine Oh that a man might with honestie tell that whiche those Nunnes doe I coulde then tel many gay things but it is not possible honestlye to speake of that whiche they so vnhonestlye doe Marforius I shall be very glad to heare it at some other tyme. But nowe let vs speake of this matter sawest thou Saint Dominicke Saint Bernard Saint Thomas of Aquine Saint Bennet Saint Albert the great Pasquine I saw some of them and some not I sawe Saint Dominicke was in his shoppe working at Turners craft and made new Beades for our Lady Saint Bernard as farre as I vnderstoode was very busie about his Hilles and his Ualleys for whē I asked for him one sayd he was in Clere Ualley an other sayd in the goldē Ualley other sayd he was gone to his hil other y ● he was climbde vp to the rocke to haue some of our Ladyes milke Marforius What doest thou tell me hath he so many businesses Pasquine So it was tolde me but that which kept him moste occupyed was that he doubted sore least the Svvychers being now become Gospellers would let lose the Deuill that he tyed vp
the spirite to aunswere to his questions and he asked him if he were in Paradise there was no aunswere made he asked if he were in hell and yet there was no aunswere he asked him if he came from Purgatory and then the spirite made a great rushing against the wal then did the coniurer aske whether he was such a one or such a one naming many and sundry persans that dyed long ago and yet was there no aunswere heard nor no maner of noyse but when he named that woman that was buried without pompe the spirite then made two great rushings against the wall Then did the coniurer aske whether she were condempned for this or that cause and in the ende it sayd bycause she was a Lutherane then was there heard thrée greate rushes against the wall The husbande being a wyfe and circumspect man marked euery thing and made as though he had much maruelled at the matter and desired those Wolues to supper the day following caused an hundreth Masses to be sayde and to light a whole worlde of Candels The Wolues howled they sent their Gods into Purgatory wet the graue with vnholy water and they perfumed it with Frankincense and when this was done caryed the Friers to dinner and in the meane season sent the officers to the place where the deceyt was done where they foūd certayne vaultes and there within thrée spirites hidden whom they toke caried away Marforius And how could they take the spirites that haue no bodies Pasquine These were of those spirites that haue bodyes of whom Saint Augustine speaketh of of which sorte are almost all those that dwell in Monasteries Marforius Were they spirites in dede Pasquine Thou art very grosse they were thrée Friers of those that they call Nouices that is to say such as knowe not yet verye well the sleightes and falshoodes of the Friers Marforius In dede the Monasteries are euen full of deceytes and the worlde is very blinde in that they espy them not In Turine also there happened of late the like matter Pasquine Well the officers hauing found the Bugs that made men afeard ledde them away like thrée little Diuels as they were into the place where the other great Diuels were at meate whom when Belsabub and his brethren sawe they knewe their knauery bewrayed and as men all dumbe they began to looke one vpon an other Marforius But were they not punished for their labour Pasquine Yes afterwarde with shame inough they were rewarded according to their demerits Marforius I maruell muche that the king hearing that these traytours did so shamefuly abuse the true Religion did not suffer that the Gospell might be fréelye preached Pasquine Thou must not maruell at this but thou must maruell rather when thou séest that any Prince doth any thing that is good they receyue with good will the true Christian Religion for eating fleshe on dayes forbidden and for the other commodities of the fleshe but they persecute imprison and slay other that in eating of flesh in other thinges folow the liberty of Christ and condemne the bondage of Antichrist They will fight against the Lambe but the Lambe shall ouercome and confounde them all Lo now are the Wolues all in maner come to confusion and shall or euer it be long be at an euil point except such as are on y e Lambes side none shal escape but this they beleue not but thou shalt sée it Marforius I beleue it certainly for me thinketh that hereof Saint Iohn speaketh in his Reuelation But to returne to Purgatory of the which I remaine not altogether satisfied tell me ought we not to hope the best Pasquine Thinkest thou that to hope the best is to beleue that one abideth for euer in Purgatory And wherfore hope they not rather y ● he is in heauen and so make an ende of all their Massing Marforius And what can this hoping hurte Pasquine It hurteth the pursses and goodes of the heires executors of men but if they haue so great a lust to say them to do good vnto the deade why doe they not satisfie their luste without any taking of money but yet for all this I will for my part beleue that he that dyeth in the fayth of Christ goeth straight to heauen and not into purgatory And this it is to hope the best What a crueltie is this of our shepeheards who haue so euil an hope of our saluation that they rather beleue we be stil in purgatory than in heauen Alas this is euen a token that they know before hand that the doctrine taught vs by them is not able to bring vs to heauen But if they fed their siely shepe with y ● holesome word of God saw them depart hence ful fed with faith in Christ what should they nede to giue so euil a iudgement of them and beate their braynes about so many sacrifices which bycause they neuer make an ende of shewe an euident token that they neuer haue sufficient And thus to procéede still without end is an argument to be holden for certayne that in Purgatory there is no redemption Marforius They haue for al that an end many tymes Pasquine Yea when paying of money hath an end Marforius So would I haue sayd vnto thée But sith thou art come to speak of Purgatorye I pray thée tell me whether thou hast séene it and howe thou camest out of it for as thou hast well sayde the deade come neuer backe hither to tell vs ought of it Pasquine I to tell the truth neuer dyed but was chaunged from fleshe into a stone so that the name of Pasquine is yet aliue how● wouldest thou therefore that I should haue séene Purgatory when I tell thée I was in heauen Exc●pte thou meanest by Purgatory the bloude of Christ. Marforius This is a playne heresie Pasquine Euen so in dede say the Friers but certainelye it is an heresie to say or beleue otherwise Paule in his Epistle to the Heb●ues affirmeth that it is impossible that remission or purging of sinnes shoulde be done with out bloud In Purgatory there is no bloud but fire therfore is it not possible that in Purgatory should be any remission or purging of sinnes And that there is no bloude there thou mayst be assured thereof by this for they say that there are soules without bodyes and soules haue no bloud But this haue they taken out of Poets fables and haue fayned that there is a fire the more to feare the mindes of the poore simple people and chiefly such as be sicke of the Feuer who féeling the heate of the Feuer haue thought that that heate of Purgatory is ten tymes greater or else bycause those people that are towarde the North are very colde to the ende they should not so goe frosen to God it was méete that they should first be heate a little And therefore was Saint Patrikes Purgatory
without a wyfe therefore is it euill for a man to haue a wife And in an other place he sayth that God hath promised heauen to virginitye and the earth to them that be maried Pasquine This is euen the ful and flat heresie of Montanus The which Ierome foloweth also in condempning altogether the seconde mariage as is to be séene in that he wryteth to Iouinian where he affirmeth that the seconde and thirde mariage is naught and where he taketh holde for the confirmatiō of his opinion he wresteth the scriptures to his meaning without purpose as a man may sée in the Epistle that he wryteth to that gentlewoman of Rome who bycause she was a wyddow and but a yong woman to obey Saint Paules councel was maryed agayne the beginning of his Epistle is this Thou art become shamelesse and hast put on the face of a Harlot Marforius Me thinketh therefore that his workes shoulde haue shewed with great aduisement what is the cause that being a man of so great learning he taketh things so cleane contrary that he is so stubburne in his opinions Pasquine What bycause he was a man and a Dalmatian Marforius Thou meanest somewhat in that thou callest him a Dalmatian Pasquine I meane then that Nation is most obstinat in that which once entreth into their braynes and setteth nought by the opinion of al other Nations Knowest thou not that olde frende of Cardinal Chietti that commeth oft times to sée him Marforius Ha yes yes I know him he speaketh Gréeke very oft bycause he would séeme to vnderstand much of it Pasquine That is he When this man talketh of any thing of his owne thou neuer heardest a prouder man nor a greater boaster speake nor that more disprayseth all thinges that come not from him selfe or from his countrymen nor a more stubburne in his opinions and therefore maruel not at Saint Ierome for they are all suche kinde of men Marforius This also maketh me much more to maruel that these men haue so much extolled this virginity sith there is not in all the holy scripture any one precept that forbiddeth to any kinde of men mariage and where there are so many places that comaunde and commende it For by this meane God would that the world should be maintayned And this was defended by the good Byshop Paphnutus in the councell of Neece against thrée hundreth Byshops Pasquine I beleue that it is for the Uirgin Maries sake that these men woulde haue so many Virgins Marforius Yet can they not for all that bring to passe that there should be many Maries the which was verely a Phoenix Pasquine I like it well that thou beginnest to vnderstande the matter Marforius Sée Pasquine I haue done as Thelemachus did in Homer who sayde that by other mennes wyse communications he had learned much Pasquine I muche reioyce that this my talke hath brought forth so good fruit in thée Marforius And I reioyce much more thereat But to returne to the purpose of this virginitie I say that the Uirgine Mary neuer made accoumpt that hir Uirginity should be of any merite towards God for she had determined to haue a husband would before haue had him but that the Aungell of the Lorde declared to hir that high and heauenly determination that God had made concerning hir And God had regarde not to hir virginity but to hir humility as may be séene in hir owne song where she sayde He hath regarded the lovvlines●e of his handemayde and sayde not to the virginity of his handemayd for lowlinesse is it that pleaseth the Lord and that is by him commaunded vnto vs whyles he sayeth Learne of me for I am meeke and lovvlye of heart and sayde not learne of me for I am a Uirgin And if thou wilt sée this more clerelye loke that place of the Gospell where the Disciples sought to knowe who shoulde be greatest in the kingdome of heauen Christ set there in the middest among them a childe saying That they must humble them selues and become as that childe if they vvould enter into the kingdome of heauen And if he had made so great an accoumpt of Uirginity or had knowen it to be so necessary he might haue sayd that they must be virgins as that childe was if they would enter into the kingdome of heauen And see moreouer the greatest prayse that is giuen to Christ is for that as the Scripture sayth He made him selfe of no reputation taking vppon him the shape of a seruaunt and not bycause he was a Uirgin But herevpon the Lordes saying putteth me in some little doubt which sayth That some do make them selues chast for the kingdome of God Pasquine Let not this trouble thee for this worde to make chaste in that place meaneth nothing else but to take away euery euill affection not onely of fleshly luste but also of all maner euill desire therto As also where he sayeth That thou shouldest pull out thine eye a●d cut of thine hande he meaneth nothing else but that thou shouldest take from thée that vice which ouercommeth thée by meanes of that member of thine And the gift of chastity is not giuen to euery one that vvoulde haue it but to vvhome God vvill This therfore ought not to be giuen as a commaūdement but they that are called thervnto by god ought to vse this as a councell Marforius Why then Origen much mistooke this matter in cutting away his instrumēt of generation Pasquine Without doubt he should better and more holily haue made him selfe chast if he had asswaged his hote desire with an honest wife of his owne For this thing God commaundeth vs and not the other Marforius But he should not haue bene chaste after that sorte Pasquine Nay rather he could not be chaste after the other sorte as Logitians define who cal not the Eunuches chast bicause they can do nothing But that he hauing a wife might also be chaste the booke of wisedome doth playnely dedeclare where he sayth O hovv faire is a chaste generation vvith vertue Lo he calleth chaste the generation of children And to y e Hebrues thus it is written Mariage is honourable among all men and the bed vndefiled but Fornicators adulterers God vvil iudge Marforius I woulde it were Gods will that thou mightest be a Preacher to the worlde but euen a fewe yeares then shoulde it not be halfe so blinde as it is Pasquine Such was Gods pleasure that those that haue bene delited with lyes and foolishe toyes should in lyes and foolishe toyes be drowned buried Marforius Sithe we are entered into this talke I woulde haue thée tell me what it is that hath deceyued so many great learned mē to set forth so carefully this virgintiy Pasquine A French Byshop full of great learning of great iudgement and of muche godlynesse opened myne eyes