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cause_n witness_n world_n worship_n 27 3 6.5006 4 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A23641 A defence of the answer made unto the nine questions or positions sent from New-England, against the reply thereto by that reverend servant of Christ, Mr. John Ball, entituled, A tryall of the new church-way in New-England and in old wherin, beside a more full opening of sundry particulars concerning liturgies, power of the keys, matter of the visible church, &c., is more largely handled that controversie concerning the catholick, visible church : tending to cleare up the old-way of Christ in New-England churches / by Iohn Allin [and] Tho. Shepard ... Allin, John, 1596-1671.; Shepard, Thomas, 1605-1649. 1648 (1648) Wing A1036; ESTC R8238 175,377 216

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lawful_a for_o matter_n and_o manner_n the_o corruption_n of_o he_o that_o use_v it_o according_a to_o his_o judgement_n from_o what_o cause_n can_v it_o spring_v but_o humane_a ignorance_n and_o frailty_n answ_n first_o the_o learned_a reply_o be_v very_o apt_a to_o forget_v the_o term_n of_o the_o proposition_n which_o be_v of_o the_o whole_a liturgy_n not_o of_o some_o thing_n in_o it_o that_o he_o may_v judge_v lawful_a to_o judge_v the_o whole_a lawful_a we_o think_v none_o of_o those_o who_o send_v the_o question_n do_v second_o our_o question_n be_v not_o whether_o the_o minister_n use_v the_o book_n of_o humane_a frailty_n but_o whether_o the_o worship_n offer_v therein_o be_v not_o so_o corrupt_a for_o matter_n and_o manner_n as_o puts_z a_o great_a difference_n between_o it_o and_o the_o prayer_n of_o a_o minister_n that_o may_v be_v subject_a to_o fayling_n of_o humane_a frailty_n we_o doubt_v not_o but_o bilney_n latimer_n etc._n etc._n use_v the_o prayer_n and_o ceremony_n 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a_o defence_n of_o the_o answer_n make_v unto_o the_o nine_o question_n or_o position_n send_v from_o new-england_n against_o the_o reply_n thereto_o by_o that_o reverend_a servant_n of_o christ_n mr._n john_n ball_n entitle_v a_o trial_n of_o the_o new_a churchway_n in_o new-england_n and_o in_o old_a wherein_o beside_o a_o more_o full_a open_n of_o sundry_a particular_n concern_v liturgy_n power_n of_o the_o key_n matter_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n etc._n etc._n be_v more_o large_o handle_v that_o controversy_n concern_v the_o catholic_n visible_a church_n tend_v to_o clear_v up_o the_o old-way_n of_o christ_n in_o new-england_n church_n by_o john_n allin_n pastor_n of_o dedham_n tho._n shepard_n pastor_n of_o cambridge_n in_o new-england_n veritas_fw-la nihil_fw-la crubescit_fw-la praeterquam_fw-la abscondi_fw-la tertul._n sua_fw-la silentia_fw-la amat_fw-la spiritus_fw-la per_fw-la quae_fw-la nobis_fw-la illabitur_fw-la seque_fw-la insinuat_fw-la cupidis_fw-la non_fw-la gloriae_fw-la sed_fw-la cognoscendae_fw-la veritatis_fw-la melanct._n let_v the_o blessing_n come_v upon_o the_o head_n of_o joseph_n and_o upon_o the_o top_n of_o the_o head_n of_o he_o that_o be_v separate_v from_o his_o brethren_n deut._n 33.16_o london_n print_v by_o r._n cotes_n for_o andrew_n crook_n and_o be_v to_o be_v sell_v at_o the_o green_a dragon_n in_o paul_n churchyard_n 1648._o the_o preface_n to_o the_o reader_n it_o be_v the_o profession_n of_o the_o lord_n jesus_n before_o pilate_n when_o he_o question_v with_o he_o about_o his_o kingdom_n john_n 18.37_o that_o for_o this_o cause_n he_o be_v bear_v and_o come_v into_o the_o world_n to_o bear_v witness_n of_o the_o truth_n many_o truth_n about_o the_o spiritual_a kingdom_n of_o christ_n have_v he_o impart_v to_o we_o if_o therefore_o we_o be_v bear_v into_o the_o world_n or_o send_v into_o this_o wilderness_n to_o bear_v witness_n to_o his_o truth_n it_o be_v unto_o we_o reward_v sufficient_a that_o we_o shall_v be_v 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can_v pass_v over_o these_o thing_n in_o the_o answer_n which_o may_v evince_v it_o to_o be_v a_o monument_n of_o idolatry_n as_o the_o argument_n of_o the_o abridgement_n to_o which_o we_o refer_v do_v prove_v reply_n the_o argument_n in_o the_o abridgement_n use_v against_o conformity_n to_o the_o ceremony_n do_v not_o in_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o author_n hold_v against_o the_o liturgy_n of_o which_o judgement_n we_o be_v answ_n it_o matter_n not_o whether_o they_o see_v so_o far_o and_o so_o judge_v if_o indeed_o the_o reason_n and_o nature_n of_o ceremony_n and_o the_o book_n be_v the_o same_o for_o the_o first_o reformer_n think_v their_o argument_n strong_a against_o oil_n cream_n and_o spittle_n etc._n etc._n in_o baptism_n but_o see_v not_o that_o they_o will_v hold_v against_o the_o cross_n surplice_n etc._n etc._n as_o well_o yet_o we_o doubt_v not_o but_o the_o reverend_a author_n do_v judge_v of_o all_o in_o the_o same_o manner_n and_o so_o it_o be_v in_o this_o 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matten_n and_o evensong_n etc._n etc._n some_o thing_n lawful_a good_a and_o pertinent_a may_v be_v find_v yet_o will_v not_o the_o godly_a allow_v these_o very_a reason_n we_o allege_v in_o the_o answer_n sufficient_a to_o refuse_v the_o whole_a form_n and_o so_o those_o good_a and_o lawful_a thing_n in_o that_o form_n as_o that_o they_o be_v devise_v by_o man_n without_o the_o command_n of_o god_n impose_v by_o a_o antichristian_a power_n abuse_v to_o idolatry_n and_o superstition_n wherein_o the_o people_n place_n much_o holiness_n and_o necessity_n full_a of_o scandal_n etc._n etc._n and_o if_o these_o reason_n do_v not_o hold_v against_o this_o form_n in_o the_o communion_n book_n the_o reply_n shall_v have_v acquit_v it_o from_o they_o or_o else_o the_o consequence_n must_v be_v yield_v in_o this_o case_n as_o in_o the_o other_o notwithstanding_o all_o the_o good_a and_o pertinent_a thing_n therein_o john_n simpson_n and_o john_n ardly_a martyr_n in_o q._n mary_n day_n and_o faithful_a witness_n make_v answer_v to_o the_o six_o article_n of_o bonner_n concern_v the_o mass_n that_o it_o be_v of_o the_o pope_n not_o of_o christ_n and_o therefore_o not_o good_a not_o have_v in_o it_o any_o goodness_n save_v gloria_fw-la in_o excelsis_fw-la the_o epistle_n and_o gospel_n the_o creed_n and_o pater_fw-la noster_fw-la and_o for_o this_o cause_n they_o say_v they_o have_v not_o nor_o will_v not_o come_v to_o hear_v mass_n the_o same_o answer_n be_v make_v by_o six_o more_o in_o those_o day_n mention_v by_o mr._n fox_n if_o therefore_o corrupt_a form_n may_v be_v use_v because_o of_o some_o thing_n good_a and_o lawful_a mix_v with_o they_o there_o shall_v have_v be_v show_v we_o some_o proof_n for_o it_o but_o if_o the_o meaning_n be_v that_o there_o may_v be_v a_o lawful_a use_n of_o those_o thing_n which_o be_v lawful_a and_o good_a in_o it_o we_o say_v so_o too_o due_a circumstance_n of_o their_o use_n be_v observe_v but_o than_o we_o fall_v off_o from_o the_o question_n between_o we_o otherwise_o we_o know_v that_o thing_n lawful_a and_o good_a in_o themselves_o yet_o not_o due_o circumstantiate_v may_v be_v evil_a and_o scandalous_a in_o their_o use_n hear_v what_o paul_n say_v it_o be_v lawful_a for_o paul_n to_o eat_v some_o kind_n of_o meat_n yet_o if_o it_o make_v my_o brother_n offend_v i_o will_v eat_v no_o flesh_n while_o the_o world_n stand_v 1_o cor._n 8.13_o hear_v what_o the_o author_n of_o the_o second_o admonition_n to_o the_o parliament_n say_v in_o queen_n elizabeth_n day_n the_o book_n of_o common-prayer_n which_o of_o all_o other_o must_v not_o be_v touch_v because_o they_o have_v get_v the_o state_n to_o bear_v it_o out_o yet_o he_o have_v but_o a_o bad_a conscience_n that_o in_o this_o time_n will_v hold_v his_o peace_n and_o not_o speak_v it_o for_o fear_n of_o trouble_n know_v that_o there_o be_v such_o intolerable_a abuse_n in_o it_o if_o there_o be_v never_o a_o ill_a word_n or_o sentence_n in_o all_o the_o prayer_n yet_o to_o appoint_v it_o to_o be_v use_v or_o to_o use_v it_o as_o the_o papist_n do_v their_o matin_n and_o evensong_n as_o a_o fit_a service_n to_o god_n though_o the_o word_n be_v good_a yet_o the_o use_n be_v naught_o but_o if_o this_o seem_v too_o sharp_a hear_v what_o a_o late_a godly_a and_o learned_a writer_n speak_v 2._o rejicimus_fw-la illas_fw-la precum_fw-la cultusque_fw-la publici_fw-la formulas_fw-la quae_fw-la tyrannide_fw-la quâdam_fw-la conscientiis_fw-la hominum_fw-la ut_fw-la cultus_fw-la divini_fw-la part_n essentiales_fw-la impo●…untur_fw-la quamvis_fw-la quoad_fw-la materiam_fw-la sunt_fw-la legitime_fw-la dispositae_fw-la quoad_fw-la formam_fw-la &_o modum_fw-la tamen_fw-la quo_fw-la inducuntur_fw-la illegitima_fw-la crudelitatis_fw-la instrumenta_fw-la fiunt_fw-la &_o praetextus_fw-la improbae_fw-la malitiae_fw-la &_o occasiones_fw-la violentae_fw-la tyrannidis_fw-la in_o dignissimos_fw-la &_o optimos_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la filias_fw-la reply_n advert_v 5._o you_o be_v general_o you_o say_v loath_a to_o med●…le_v with_o the_o affair_n of_o other_o church_n unless_o necessary_o call_v thereunto_o but_o when_o some_o upon_o request_n as_o we_o suppose_v of_o private_a friend_n and_o other_o out_o of_o their_o zeal_n and_o forwardness_n have_v labour_v to_o draw_v many_o to_o separate_v from_o the_o sacrament_n because_o minister_v in_o a_o stint_a liturgy_n we_o can_v apprehend_v any_o just_a ground_n of_o this_o apology_n the_o ●…ent_n be_v wide_a and_o some_o brethren_n have_v their_o hand_n deep_a therein_o which_o make_v we_o crave_v your_o judgement_n and_o the_o reason_n thereof_o to_o make_v up_o the_o breach_n answ_n 1_o what_o you_o impute_v to_o some_o if_o just_o we_o grant_v will_v not_o allow_v this_o apology_n to_o be_v general_a for_o all_o but_o how_o many_o that_o some_o be_v or_o who_o we_o know_v not_o it_o may_v be_v one_o or_o two_o and_o if_o so_o one_o or_o two_o exception_n will_v not_o much_o infringe_v a_o general_a rule_n nor_o hinder_v this_o general_a apology_n 2_o if_o such_o brethren_n have_v a_o necessary_a call_v to_o speak_v or_o write_v what_o they_o do_v it_o hinder_v not_o our_o apology_n at_o all_o the_o desire_n of_o private_a friend_n which_o you_o only_o suppose_v the_o move_a cause_n may_v be_v very_o weighty_a the_o satisfy_n of_o tender_a conscience_n of_o near_a friend_n or_o such_o as_o once_o depend_v upon_o our_o ministry_n in_o such_o a_o time_n of_o press_v humane_a invention_n upon_o man_n as_o that_o be_v may_v be_v a_o very_a urgent_a call_n to_o interpose_v but_o that_o any_o have_v endeavour_v out_o of_o zeal_n to_o draw_v many_o to_o separation_n from_o the_o sacrament_n upon_o such_o a_o ground_n as_o you_o say_v as_o we_o utter_o dislike_v such_o fire_n upon_o the_o top_n of_o the_o house_n so_o it_o must_v be_v prove_v before_o we_o can_v call_v to_o mind_n or_o acknowledge_v any_o such_o thing_n reply_n advert_v 6._o j._n d._n object_n to_o mr._n p._n that_o his_o manner_n of_o preach_v proceed_v it_o shall_v be_v be_v disorderly_a in_o carry_v to_o the_o classis_fw-la a_o matter_n before_o he_o have_v declare_v it_o to_o the_o church_n etc._n etc._n and_o may_v not_o we_o with_o like_a reason_n object_n that_o this_o manner_n of_o proceed_v be_v disorderly_a in_o seek_v to_o draw_v man_n to_o separation_n because_o of_o a_o stint_a liturgy_n before_o you_o have_v show_v we_o or_o other_o brethren_n who_o it_o may_v concren_n by_o scripture_n or_o reason_n that_o a_o stint_a liturgy_n be_v unlawful_a answ_n what_o j._n d._n object_n we_o can_v tell_v see_v you_o neither_o quote_v the_o place_n nor_o the_o printer_n give_v we_o his_o word_n in_o any_o way_n to_o make_v sense_n but_o so_o far_o as_o we_o guess_v at_o the_o meaning_n the_o case_n be_v very_o wide_a from_o this_o in_o hand_n j._n d._n may_v just_o complain_v of_o wrong_n offer_v to_o he_o and_o