of sinne out of the soule so that it cometh in to the Church purer then the Sunne and there findes the breade of life breade of Angells the medicine of immortalitie the fouÌ„taine of all good and consummation of Sacraments the holie Eucharist to feede vppon Euery where there are Altars wherevppon is Sacrificed vnbloodilie the Lambe of God that taketh away the sinne of the world according as IESVS our high Priest Priest for euer according to the Order of Melchisedech did institute and ordaine In the way to these Altars are Tribunalls wherein those doe sitte who can open Heauen to the PeniteÌ„t where the Priest doth forgiue trespasses comitted against God Heauen approuing the Sentence of a man I will giue to thee Peeter Matt. 16. 18. the keies of the kingdome of heauen Whatsoeuer you shall loose in earth shall be loosed also in heauen whose sinnes you shall forgiue they are forgiuen them Ioan. 20. and whose you shall retaine they are retained Heere are the Doctors Euangelists Prophets and Pastors of whom wee reade in S. Paul Heere are Isaies Kings and Queenes Abrahams Starrs the Temples of the Holie Ghost and Gods Elect. All Tribes and People and tongues all Nations all the ends of the Earth doe come hither and adore in this Mount of our Lord in this House of God Heere the Holie Ghost still abideth illuminating directing Sanctifying and before him a hundred thousand harts burne euer in the flames of diuine loue Here some are weeping for their sinnes others meditating on the Passion others teaching and instructing the people others defining in generall Councell others conuerting Nations others adoring the souueraigne will of God others suffering for his sake In the Quire innumerable tongues are imployed daie and night in the praise of their Creator and Redeemer And round about are Watchmen that neuer hold their peace Lift vp thine eyes o IERVSALEM round about and see all these are gathered together they are come vnto thee Thy somes are come from a farre and thy daugthers are risen from thy side See and abound let thy hart maruaile and be dilated for the multitude of the Sea is conuerted and the streingth of Gentiles comes vnto thee Enlarge the place of thy tent and stretch out the skinnes of thy Tabernacles spare not make long thy cords and fasten thy nailes behold thou doest penetrate to the right hand and to the left thou art dilated to the East and to the West and to the North and to the South The Gentiles doe walke by thy light and Kings in the brightnes of thy rising Kings are thy nourcing Fathers and Queenes thy Nources The children of them that humbled thee come crouching now aÌ„d adore the stepps of thy feete Thy God hath established thee his throne as the dayes of heauen and hath made thee the pride of worlds a ioy vnto generation and generation thou art a crowne of glorie in the hand of our Lord and the Diademe of a kingdome in the hand of thy God 50. This Church the SPOWSE of Iesus Christ holding in her hand the BOOKE OF GOD doth contemplate and behold therin as in a glasse her OWNE SELF she beholds there her owne greatnes her owne proportion her owne face And such is the rare puritie and perfection of this glasse shee beholds there also her doctrine her inwarde composition her life and sowle The proposition of the Obiect is supernaturallie made vnto her in most cleere and euident circumstances And by the infallible operation of the All-teaching Spirit she is directed in her act By these two powerfull certaine meanes she is so constaÌ„tly setled in her faith that if the world shrink vnder feete shee will not leaue the truth Repeate now the first Chapter and reade there in PROPHECIE that which worlds of people since haue beheld with their EIES and still do reade I saie and consider it diligentlie to the end you may see how one is verified in the other that Prophecie in this Church and this Church in that Prophecie And hereby you will vnderstand at leingth by gods grace both that Prophecie and this Church to be from one and the same cause and prime author whose prouidence and power are so vniuersallie eminent that none can frustrate his designe or hinder an euent which he foretold and therfore both diuine and both from God 51. From this Church and from no other I take my direction for eternitie My owne witte might runne amisse I might mistake in the estimation of the Spirit in mee if I went alone And I were mistaken manifestlie if I followed any that swarued from the Spirit of this communitie And an other communitie like this the world neuer sawe The consent of so many worlds of people in an obscure Creede is an euident argument of a supernaturall cause vniting their vnderstandings It was ouer the world before Constantine and yet all Princes were against it in this consent and consequently of a diuine Spirit mouing them For all these Nations were neuer much lesse all this tyme of sixteene hundred yeers actualy subiect to any one Prince or State and the light of nature doth vnite many in one principle or Conclusion but by way of euidence which is not here in our Creede Further wee knowe that Schollers neuer yet agreed so generallie in things subiect vnto the naturall power of their vnderstanding neither can any man aliue finde out or assigne and defend against a Scholler any naturall cause of this vnitie in beleefe The infinite miracles illustrious and vndeniable in this Church are an euident argument that the Author of nature is in it changing the common course of things to the astonishment of the world thereby to drawe the eies of all vppon this Companie where they may see and learne the seruice of their Creator The vniformity of this Companie of Gentiles to the descriptioÌ„ made before in Prophecie and the Reprobation of the Iewish Nation left now without Temple without Sacrifice without Prophet without miracle without any argument of Gods presence and true seruice amonge them are an euident argument that this Companie and the Messias Church described in the Scripture are all one VVherefore worthily did our predecessors and wee doe worthily rest in the communion of this companie And since mortall man with his industrie caÌ„ goe no higher nor better resolue himself in diuine and heauenly â—â—â—ires being heere arriued he meetes with Gods prouidence to conduct him to securitie Is a man moued to beleeue by example aÌ„d consent here are worlds in our communion and this so ample as the like is no were to be fouÌ„d Is he moued with Miracles here are infinite The blinde see the lame walke the deade arise and of this wee haue as greate euidence as man can desire Is he moued with the common and vniforme resolution of the learned heere are generall Decrees made in Councells Oecumenicall by the wisest of all the world the prime Schollers and grauest men comming
is your ignorance in the manner 67. Knowe therefore secondlie that two waies a mā may beleeue all which the Church teacheth to be true One waie is by acknowledging each point of her doctrine in particular because the Spirit of God in and by her doth auouch it and this faith is vnfoulded An other is by acknowledging in generall and as it were in grosse all to be true which the Church doth teach not descending into the particular consideration of each and this is implicite or infolded faith because in it are infolded all the particulars which the Church doth teach 68. By this distinction of vnfoulded and infoulded faith you now know my meaning and it is this That the faith of all Catholikes both learned ād vnlerned late ād aūciēt is not equallie vnfoulded but yet is all one because that is infolded in ones faith which is vnfoulded with an other And thus a man who reades the Scripture and still doth increase in diuine knowledge learning dailie more and more is of the same religion and the same faith all the while Thus are the people ād their pastors of the same religion though the pastors knowe and beleeue more in particular then the clownes euer heard of Thus was S. Augustine and his mother Monica of one religion though she knewe not all the deuinitie or poīts of faith or Scripture in particular which he knewe Thus were the Corinthians and S. Paul thus are wee and the old Fathers the Fathers and the Apostles of the same religiō and thus is the later Church and the primitiue vnited in faith Because nothing is generallie beleeued now which was not then generallie beleeued though now something be more vnfolded in the generall beleefe of the communitie I saie nothing of some eminent men of those tymes then was by the multitude beleeued in particular or vnfolded then and something might haue bene then vnfolded which is not so commonlie knowne at this tyme. And no doubt but the Apostles knewe more in particular then mē doe nowe 69. By the same doctrine you may vnderstād howe the Catholiques in the whole body frō the Apostles to this daie though infinite haue bene all of one religion and the same with vs notwithstāding that each clowne knewe not all in particular which the learned did yea notwithstāding many learned knewe not all in particular And the reason is because in this principle I beleeue as the Church and followe her iudgment in matter of faith each had ALL whether he were learned or vnlearned and euerie Catholique did this and he who did it not was no Catholique 70. You thinke peraduenture that no two are exactlie of the same religiō vnles their faith be equallie distinct in obiect and vnfolded equallie which conceipt if it were true none were of the same religion with the Apostles in their tyme nor with the holie Fathers in theirs who beleeued not distinctlie and in particular as many points as they did which is a grosse errour in Christianitie and makes as many religions allmost as men Are you in your parish all of one religion or not if you are then by your rule who cannot abide implicite faith each old wife and yonge girle knowes as much in particular in the Bible and Deuinitie as your selfe or if they doe not I praie you tell me how they be exactlie of the same religion with you I knowe you will runne to fundamentalls but the shift will not serue because agreement in fundamentalls in your sense doth not suffize to the exact agreement in religion for wee and you be not of one religiō as all the world knowes and yet you saie that wee disagree not in fundamētalls and indeede there are infinite waies to erre against Faith otherwise he that did obstinatelie denie all the Bible and euerie verse of it excepting those onelie wherin is one of your fundamentalls which fundamētalls as you recon them are verie fewe and contained in the Creede with baptisme and the supper he I saie who did obstinatelie this were no Heretique but a man of your religion exactlie howsoeuer he be detested by the Christian world 71. Hauing declared the reason whie Catholiques are all of one religion by reason of their common vnion in one vniuersall principle containing their particular consent in the rest as occasion doth require to which generall principle they are all moued by the words and promise of Iesus Christ it is not amisse now to looke about for the originall cause why Heretiques are not all of one religion since they resolue all or pretend to resolue their faith into the Scripture or the Spirit I neede not goe farre to finde it out for it is knowne by the definition of an Heretique He is a man who makes his owne election by his priuate iudgment in matter of religion And thence it is that hauing cast of Church authoritie ād putt his owne witt in place to iudge each takes where and what he likes and their iudgments being diuers they take diuers things and expound diuerslie 74. Neither doth the scripture serue the turne in this case first because there is disagreement which is Scripture which cause must be first determined by some iudge and this iudge to each Heretick is his owne witt Secōdlie it is obscure ād therefore there is infinite varietie in guessing at the meaning of it as wee see by the experience of many hundred yeares and in this case likewise each Heretique doth adore his owne iudgment As for the spirit that of God is not among Heretiques but in the Church as I haue prooued since therfore they are not the Church and their Spirit opposite it followes that it is another and that erroneous And by the mulplicitie of iudgments and contradictions among them selues it appeares euidentlie that they are many and no meruaile since each crowcheth vnto his owne since each hath his Maozim within himselfe This therfore is the reason whie Arians Nestorians Lutherans c. though they be all against the Catholique be not of one religion among them selues 73. Neither would the consequence be good if you should argue thus Luther receaues the letter of Scripture and Caluin receaues the letter of Scripture therefore Luther and Caluin are of one Religion it doth not hold I say since they receaue not the same sense nor are vnited in any one common meane to receaue it And were the argument good it would prooue Caluinists and Arians to be of the same Religion since each receaue the letter 74. Hence it comes allso that all Heretiques cannot haue one definition but that euery one is to be defined according to the points he doth hold in particular because of his difference from others in the sense though perhaps he admitte the letter with others And in taking this sense he is not bounded by any authoritie common to him and to other Heretiques but onelie by his owne will and conceit Since therefore there is difference amonge Heretiques and that this
England for example but in the world it shall allwayes bee ◠2. c. 1. for so much is euident by the Scripture Neither doth it followe God permittes some tymes one man to fall into Apostasie some tymes another therfore he will at once permitte all he permittes diuers to die before you ād for ought you knowe he may permitte any one man whom soeuer you can name or thinke of yea any one in all the world yet hence it is not cōsequēte that it stands with his generall prouidence to permitt euery one to die before you that so you may be last the onelie man a liue I answeare therfore that As by vertue of Gods generall prouidence in as much as he is author of nature there be still in the world men though some at all tymes dropp away so by vertue of Gods prouidence as he is author of the supernaturall order among men there be euer Catholiques in the world and so will be still as long as the world stands though some men yea some Nations and some perticular Churches do fall of 124 The next which is allso the last I am to speake of here lookes bigge ō all ād thinkes to make an ēd of our cause with one blowe The scope of it is to proue that all may erre and therfore that wee are not to be heard though neuer so many Councells and auncient fathers and worlds of people doe stand for vs and comes on in this manner The whol◠Church militant consisting of mē Wh◠are lyers may erre alltogethe◠as euery part thero◠Fulk ans◠to Count Cat. p. 89. All Christians that are or euer were in the world are men therfore it might happen that all haue erred though they were assēbled together neuer so orderlie because euery man is a lier If this argumēt did prooue any thing it would prooue that all Councells all Apostles all Euangelists all prophets hether to may for any thing you know haue bene in errour for all these were men and euery man is a lier This is the vp shott of your disputation this is the hauen you haue all this while bene sailing vnto this though first but a shifte wherunto you were driuen by the strength of authoritie brought against you is now your doctrine and a Conclusion in your bookes Our answeare is easie that man of himselfe might erre but by diuine assistance might be so guided that he erred not and no man can denie this vnles he denie that God is omnipotent or omniscious which if he doe the light of nature will condemne him Thus generall Councells are assisted thus were the Euangelists allso and thus the Prophetts though nor after the same manner all And the promise of the Assistance did more concerne the Pastors then the people Oecumenicall Councells then each Bisshop single the whole colledge of the Apostles more then one Though each Apostle being to teach the whole Church in the nature of an Apostle had this assistance too and our Sauiour praying for the sanctification of his elected in truth or for their perseuerance included the meanes allso of this perseuerāce of his elect in the truth which is the perpetuitie of his assistance vnto those in whome is the teaching authoritie respectiuelie to the whole in which those elected are though to pastors in particular vnknowne 125. But to looke now a little vppon you who are so resolute in your ignorance as to thinke that all may haue mystaken the truth which you haue foūd and haue bene forsakē by the Spiritte who singularlie fauours you I demaund of you the Spirittes darling and worlds fresh Oracle First how one may knowe that you are exempted frō the world of men which may erre alltogether or what other species or kind you and your witte belonge vnto that men should leaue the whole world though consenting and take your authoritie against them all the same Question would I aske of your fellowe Rainolds ād of Whittaker were they liuing but hauing vndertaken their cause the resolution belongs to you in their absēce Secondlie I desire a sight of your particular letters patents from Iesus Christ wherein the teaching Spiritte is thus singularlie bequeathed and addicted vnto you or to either of the forenamed in particular or Iohn white if you had rather togeather with a clause that though he breake his promise made vnto the Church and hath not as he said he would sente the allteaching Spiritte to the Apostles to their Successors or to the Church Catholique yet that that other promise no where extant for ought wee knowe made particularlie vnto you his deerest he will not breake and how you are sure he will stand to this clause Thirdlie I demaūd why the Catholiques of Englād be there commaunded and vrged allso to conforme their conscience to the doctrine of your Church and to rest in her iudgment and in the parlamentarie decrees for points of Religion though worlds of men as learned euery waie I speake least as your selues doe and haue maintained the contrarie to their dying daie as conformable to the Scripture to reasō ād to the practise of their forefathers time out of mind I demaund I saie why you proceede with thē in this manner before you giue euidēce that you are not in errour since you likewise are mē and all mē may erre as you tell vs. Euidence I say greater thē any these haue on their side I demaund further of your wisdome how you doe know and are certaine that the Euāgelists Apostles ād Prophetts did write those bookes which you take for diuine Scripture and how you doe know your selfe ād cā prooue to me there is no errour or mistaking in the matter if all mē may haue erred And I demaund further how you doe knowe that he which did write the first Gospell suppose he were S. Matthewe did not erre since he was a man and all men you saie may erre I demaund Fiftlie howe men shall come to be sure of the sense of a peece of Scripture and to haue the controuersies in religion determined Must he come to you why rather then to the Church which was before you were borne and had the promise of the Spiritte If to the Spiritte why rather to that in you them to that in the Church If to others why must wee goe to old Heretiques to Iewes to Pagans to Athiests rather then to the Church why should any knowe better then she or abounde more with the Spiritte then she doth I demaund next what an Heretique is and why he which opposeth himselfe in matters of faith to generall Councells to the Spiritte of the Catholique Church and to Gods word proposed by this Church and expounded by this Spiritt is not one And Seuenthlie I demaund whether this sinne be not against the holie Ghost and whether he who dieth in it shall be saued and admitted into the Church triumphant who thus opposed the militant and died a vowed enemy to her and to her
of the tyme they liued in produce a Catalogue a Continuall Catalogue of such mē as agreed in doctrine with you such as held the religion now currant in England who were they whence were they where were they hould vp your head man open your eies and looke the question in the face THE THIRD CHAPTER That no satisfaction is giuen to the demaund by recourse vnto Antiquitie 15. HAd your religion bene such that you could haue giuen accōpt and euidence of her continuall existence in the world there would yet remaine a greater taske behinde which were to prooue the generall communion it had with Nations and that it was and is Catholique in that respect that it did and doth consent with Antiquitie with the Apostles doctrine and with the Scripture for this must be prooued and exactly too before wee receaue it See the Protest Apol. and the Prud. Ballance and leaue that which hath bene generallie professed in England well neare a thousand yeares together and was all that space the knowne religiō of the Christiā world The true religion is such as I haue said and therfore if you will haue vs praie with you first showe that your Church is thus ample thus Catholique thus grounded and ours not for vntill you prooue this which will neuer be you may not hope that wee will come out of our Church into yours To proceed therfore I demaund euidence that your religion that I saie which in England is now currāt hath bene generallie in the cōmunion of the Christian world and I demaund such euidence as may commaund a wise mā to beleeue it Your answeare to this in effect is that in the first six hundred years it was so though you will not be tied to giue accōpt of it afterwardes By which euasion I doe gather that you apprehend the former argumēt as a ghost haunting and affrighting you seeing that for feare of meeting it againe you haue stepped ouer a thousand yeares together to take sanctuarie among the Fathers in their Church I was about to saie you were ill aduised to aduēture yourselfe thether where Iouiniās Nouatiās Donatistes and other your progenitors were cōdemned and accursed but cōsidering your case better I see that feare would not let you aduise at all but cast you no matter whether so it were farre ynough out of my waie 16. Now therfore I follow thether but first obserue how you dare not auouch and in effecte do deny that the religion you maintaine was openlie professed receaued publicklie for nine hundred yeares before Luther which is but could encouragement for men to come to or to staie with you who pretending to giue accompt of a continuall succession and euer visible Catholique Church doe come so short of the thinge expected that you can show none in all the world for nine hūdred yeares together and this which you haue said being wrested out of you vppon the racke ād much against your will because infinitelie preiudiciall to your cause I take for an effect of the former argument which you haue not ben able to answeare yet nor euer will be The like issue it hath oft had before for your writers ād best learned men hauing the space of a hundred yeares together bene vrged and importuned with this question haue laboriouslie searched all recordes turned ouer and ouer all authors examined all writinges with that industrie men are to suppose which a cause required wheruppon eternitie doth depende and yet after infinite inquisition cannot finde such a Church in former tyme as yours is and herevpon haue confessed that the Christian world was of our Religion before Luther not of yours imagining hereby a generall Apostasie frō the faith to haue ouerrunne the whole world Cal. praef Instit Hence Caluin in his Institutions saith that in the ages past there was no face of a true Church and that the true Religiō was drowned ād ouerthrowne for many ages Whittaker saith no religion but the papisticall had place in the Church Whittak cont Dur. p. 274. and wee knowe saith he as plainlie that the Church hath perisshed as thou knowest a man to be dead The Popes tyranny saith Luther hath extinguisshed the faith many ages Luth. Capt Babil c. de Bapt. Perk. Expos Creed p. 400. Simon Voyon Ep ad lect Hutter de sacrif mis p. 377. Before the dayes of Luther saith Perkins for the space of many hūdred yeares an vniuersall Apostasie ouerspred the world When Boniface was installed saith an other the whole world was ouerwhelmed in the dregges of Antichristiā filthines with superstitiōs and traditiōs of the Pope another I graunt willinglie that the papist Idolatrie hath inuaded all most all the world especiallie these last thousād yeares another Hospin Hist Sacram l. 2. p. 157. in the tyme of Gregorie the great all kinde of superstitiō ād Idolatrie hath as a sea ouerflowed all the Christian world no man resisting Another the Papisticall ād Antichristian Raigne began about the yeere 316. after Christ raigning vniuersallie ād without any debateable cōtradiction 1260. yeares Napp on the Reuel p. 68. the Pope and his clergie during all that tyme possessing the outward visible Church of the Christiās another For certaine through the worke of Antichrist the externall Church Seb. Franc. Ep de abrog stat Eccl. together with the faith and sacramēts vanished a way presentlie after the Apostles departure and for these 1400. yeares the Church hath bene no where externall and visible another the true Church decaied immediatelie after ther Apostles tyme. Fulk answer to Counterf Cath. p. 35. I haue a horrour to recite what the bouldnes of your men doth auouch further towching the Christian Church in common and her Apostasie from the faith cōtrarie to the sēse of all Antiquity and to the iudgment of the Christian world yea contrarie to the promises of Iesus Christ and to the couenant of allmightie God as hereafter I will shewe Meane while compare these textes vnto your doctrine of the Church In the later dayes shall be prepared the mountaine Isay 2. the house of our lord in the toppe of mountaines and it shall be raised aboue the litle hilles and all Nations shall flowe vnto it Thou shalt not be called any more forsaken and thy land shall not be any more called desolate Id. c. 62. but thou shalt be called my will in her and thy land inhabited because our lord hath taken complacence in thee and thy land shall be inhabited Id. c. 59. My spirit that is in thee and my words which I haue put in thy mouth shall not depart out of thy mouth and out of the mouth of thy seed and out of the mouth of the seed of thy seede saith our lord from hence foorth and for euer 17. The Church in the Scripture is so ample that All nations flowe vnto it so established and so deare vnto Christ that she is no more forsaken but her lād euer
quod etiam ipsi credebant alios autem timore cessissè simulatè consensisse Aug. Ep. 48. See Baronius as the yeare 359. about the Councell of Ariminium which approued the Nicene faith and cōdemned Vrsatius Valens c. Afterwardes happened that which S. Ierom speaketh of when the Councell was neither f◠nor approued and all Catholikes in the world admit that such a Councell might 〈◊〉 of Ariminium neuer approued by the See Apostolike nor euer acknowledged for lawfull by the Church and by your selues also reiected I answeare that there was noe cause of feare that the Church should by that acte be all deceaued and erre in faith for the Church hath alwayes the assistance of the holie Ghost to preserue her from errour in faith by couenant of God the Father and promise of God the sonne as in the next booke you shall heare at large Neither wanted there at any tyme learned men who knew that a Councell wanting the consent of the See Apostolique was not Oecumenical properlie nor an infallible rule of faith 58. If you plead against the visibilitie of our Church with this obiectiō it is weake for the Arians euer found opponēts and those visible such as at last wonne the field If you plead with it against the vniuersalitie of the Church it is also weake and impertinent it is impertinent as it comes from you because those Arians were not Protestantes and therfore their number makes nothing for the vniuersalitie of your cause And it is also weake because their communion was neuer with all Nations nor did euer equall the vniuersalitie of the Church Which is euident because the Catholique communion was elder by three hunderd yeares and was in that tyme spred ouer all Christendome and hath continued after Arianisme is gone these many hundred yeeres in the communion of the Christian world and more Natiōs haue bene since conuerted to it and are dailie and so will be till she hath bene in the communion of them all If therfore you will measure both take each communion in her greatest latitude of tyme and place or Nations and you will presentlie see Arianisme to be too narrowe and too short as not hauing possessed so many Nations nor dured so longe a tyme. Much lesse will you find that begining the same tyme it ranne side by side in an equall or a fuller streame through all ages to this daie and were so to continue if you intended this I should suspect your braine 59. Touching the comparison of it to that part of the Church at least which was at that tyme you thinke it so filled all places of the Christian world that Catholiques had noe roome This errour is of ignorance you may amend it if you inquire of some who did liue then If I should bring many testimonies you would saie I were tedious in matter of historie and therfore will content my selfe and you also if you be reasonable with one from many Authors S. Athanasius a man beyond exception together with diuers Bysshopes of Aegypt Thebais and Libia wrote to Iouiā the Emperour of the Nicene faith thus Know certainely ap Theodoret l. 4. c. 3. most holie Emperour that this same faith hath bene published from all memorie of ages this the holie fathers assembled at Nice haue confirmed to this haue assented all Churches euerie where as of Spaine of Britanie of France of all Italie of Dalmatia of Mysia of Macedonia and all Greece and all the Churches of Africke Sardinia Cyprus Creete Pāphilia Lycia Isauria and the Churches of Aegypt Lybia Pontus Cappadocia and the Churches of the bordering countryes and finallie the Churches of the east some fewe excepted which doe fauour the Arian sect for wee doe certainelie know the sentence of them all and haue receaued letters from them and doe know certainlie most holie Emperour that although a fewe doe contradict this faith the whole world cannot suffer preiudice therby 60. Sixtly you oppose vnto vs want of vnitie I answeare that all Catholiques doe submit their vnderstandings to the iugment of the Church and to the generall decrees of their Pastores and masters readie to beleeue whatsoeuer they generallie in Councells doe define and to reiect whatsoeuer they condemne and by these meanes are vnited perfectlie vnto those Councelles and to the whole Church in faith and iudgment about religion each man in the Church hauing his vnderstanding vndeuided in beleefe from the Church and so being one with it Vnitie consisting in Indiuision as you haue learned of the philosopher lōge agoe Our Councelles likewise are one in doctrine as the partes of Scriptures are though they be not Scripture but declarations of Gods word that is they are vndiuided there being amōgst thē all noe opposition or dissent in decrees and definitiōs ād the later receauing what hath bene formerlie defined wherof hereafter I will discourse a part because as Iulian Porphyrie and others thought they sawe cōtradictions in the Scripture so you haue imagined the like of Coūcelles though nothing so many nor haueing that shew as those had which by the foresaid infidelles were obiected and if you know not so much you are not of that reading your frindes haue taken you to be To your argumente I saie therfore that this companie hath vnitie in beleefe noe man at all in the companie being diuided from the rest in beleefe howsoeuer about thinges vndefinied and vndetermined by the Church in their tyme there might be diuersitie of opinions ād may be now in the like as he knowes that hath bene a weeke in the Schooles of deuinitie The same companie hath originallie likewise vnitie in religion and faith each vnderstanding in the whole mysticall bodie being submitted to the same iudge of cōtrouersies that is to Gods Spiritte in the Church Catholique and acknowledging this one Spiritte and this one Church and this one Spiritte in this one Church iudging defininge determining ruling all VVhich common vnion and consent in one makes their communion so generall so firme and so conspicuous as you are faine to see with your eies against your will 61. A seuenth argument is made against succession and it is obiected that wee haue noe succession of Catholiques or of such as wee are I answeare that the Catholique religion and Church is that whose communion is with all Nations as you haue heard and a Catholicke is a man who doth resolue his faith into this Church and into the Spiritte which doth assist and teach it such were all who did receaue the Generall Councelles before spoken of and the doctrine of the Church present to the tymes wherein they liued which were infinite and such will be to the worldes end If you will haue some assigned more particularly that you may dispute against them I name whole assemblies of pastors in Generall Councell I name the Generall Councells mentioned heretofore In them was our Succession and the Catholique Church in them was conspicuous and worlds of people did communicate with
immolated there is no vnbloodie d Sacrifice which is the flesh of Christ the lambe of God is not on the e Altar he is not offered in sacrifice by the Priest the Sonne of God is not f againe sacrificed for vs the sacrifice is not g dispenced from the Alter Compare 52. Seauenthly the Fathers did beleeue that the bodie of our Sauiour was present to our bodies and mouthes when wee receaue the Eucharist which is another euident argument that they thought it substaÌ„tiallie present here on earth where our bodies are for a thing which is in heauen only cannot be so present Wee denie not that wee are Spirituallie ioyned vnto Christ by true faith and sincere Charitie S. Cyr. Alex l. 10. in Io. c. 13. but that wee haue 1 no coniunction with him at all according to the flesh that verilie wee denie and affirme it to be contrarie to the diuine Scriptures aÌ„d because you are readie to runne to the Incarnation it followes a little after Doth he Nestorius thinke perchance that wee knowe not the force of the mysticall benedictioÌ„ coÌ„secratioÌ„ which being done in vs doth it not make Iesus Christ to dwell in vs 2 corporallie also with the communication of the flesh of Christ which thing he doth prooue there by Scripture and after declare with an example S. Aug. l 2. cont Adu Leg. c. 9. Wee receaue with faithfull hart and 3 mouth the Mediatour of God and man man Christ Iesus giuing vs his bodie to be eaten and his blood to be drunke though it seeme more horrible to eate maÌ„s flesh then to kill and to drinke mans blood then to shed it S. Leo. serm 7. de Ieiun meÌ„s 7. You ought so to communicate of the holie table that you doubt nothing at all of the truth of the bodie and blood of Christ for that is receaued with 4 the mouth which by faith is beleeued S. Greg. Dial. l. 4. c. 58. S. Greg. Nyss orat Catec c 37. His blood is powered into the mouthes of the faithfull Our Sauiour by his flesh entereth into all the faithfull and mingleth himselfe with their 5 bodies to the end that man being vnited to that which is immortall may attaine to be made partaker of Incorruption Wee are made 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hearers of Christ when wee haue receaued his bodie and blood into 6 our members S. Cyr. Hi. Catec 4. So the Fathers vnderstanding the bodie of Christ indeed to be in those dimensions and so to be in our bodie reallie when the Sacrament is in it and to be receaued with our mouthes Whereas you denying that he can be reallie here and in heauen too must gape as wide as heauen if you will receaue the signes and the bodie too with your mouth for the signes are here and the bodie and blood according to you are onelie there in that one place 53. The Protestant Opinion The flesh of Christ is 1 not neere vnto our flesh Christ is not 2 in vs corporallie Christ is not receaued with the 3 mouth that which is beleeued is neuer 4 in the mouth neuer neerer then heauen is to the earth the blood of Christ is no where but in heauen it is in no bodies mouth at any tyme. the flesh of Christ is not neere our 5 bodies it is as farre of as heauen is from earth the bodie of Christ is neuer 6 in vs. Compare 54. That which troubleth you did not moue the Fathers to discredit the word of God as you doe His omnipotencie was in the begining of their Creed as it is in ours Heare what they say of your doubtes The first S. Cyr. Hi. Catec 4 S. Chrys ho. â—3 Mat. Sense telles vs it is bread S. Cyrill though it seeme breade it is not bread S. Chrysost let our Sauiours words master our sense and reason His words cannot be vntrue our sense is many tymes deceaued The second It is not possible for one to haue his owne bodie in his owne haÌ„ds S. Augustine In what manner this may be vnderstood of Dauid or another pure man wee cannot finde S. Aug. in in Psal 33. conc 1. but wee finde it fulfilled in Christ for Christ was caried in his owne hands when commending his owne verie bodie he said this is my bodie for then he caried and held that bodie in his owne haÌ„ds If you did beleeue it were reallie in the Sacrament as the Fathers did you would neuer sticke at this nor at any other thing for all are grounded in the Sacramentall being The third Christ could not eate himselfe the Sacrament he might and did eate S. Ierom. He S. Hieron Ep. ad Hedib q. 2. Christ was the Banquetter and the Feast the eater and the thing eaten Wee drinke his bloode c. The fourth Christ is ascended S. Chrys hom 2. ad Pop. Ant. therefore his flesh is not here S. Chrysostom Christ both left vs his flesh and ascended hauing it The fift the bodie should by this time be all consumed for many thousands haue receaued it S. Grerie S. Greg. Nyss orat Cat. c. 37. Wee must enquire how it can possibile come to passe that the one onelye bodie of Christ which is allwaies thorough out the world imparted to so many thousands of the faithfull may be wholie in euerie one in particular and allso remaine whole and entire in it selfe His answere These things he Christ bestoweth by transelementing thorough the vertue of benedictioÌ„ the nature of those things which appeare of breade and wine into it his bodie The sixt A mans bodie cannot be in that forme S. Epiphanius When he Christ had giuen thankes he said this is my bodie and blood S Epiphaâ— in Ancora and yet wee see that it is not of equall bignes nor yet like for it hath no similitude with the image of that flesh which he tooke vpon him nor with the Diuinitie it selfe which cannot be seene nor with the lineaments and shape of members For this is of a round figure aÌ„d according to the power insensible yet he vouchsafed by his grace to say this is my bodie and blood neither may any man refuse to giue credit to his words The reall Presence a fundameÌ„tall point For he that beleeueth it not to be true falleth altogeather from grace and saluation 55. Being here come to the end of this Chapter I wish you now to consider how vnpossible a thing it is for you to make it euident that Antiquitie was with you against vs and to make such as haue witte and learning to beleeue it That which wee beleeue wee finde in the Fathers and the iudgment belonges not to you or me but to the Church which if the cause were obscure by the diuine Assistance promised and present to her could determine it but this cause is cleere the Fathers haue giuen as faire euidence as wee could wish Wee cannot yet expresse our meaning better then they haue
donne It is not common bread it is not breade it is not that which nature made The Fathers breade is made the bodie of Christ that in the Sacrament is flesh it is the flesh of Christ made of bread the nature is changed nature it selfe is changed it is changed by Gods omnipotencie it is transelemented The senses may be deceaued beleeue theÌ„ not beleeue the words of Christ It is not breade though the tast esteeme it so it is changed not in shape but in nature it is the flesh which suffered for vs that which did hange vppon the crosse the price of our redemption It is the Lord of Angells he is heere on earth and thou receauest him He is sacrificed on the Altar the Sonne of God is againe sacrificed for vs the LaÌ„be that taketh away the sinnes of the world is offered in sacrifice by Priests without slaughtering Wee offer an vnbloody sacrifice in the Church it is offered euery where it is the same which Christ offered The victime is dispenced from the Altar wee doe eate the lambe entire Christ he is the feast the Angells tremble when they behold that wherwith wee are fed Christ is worshipped on the Altar wee adore the flesh of Christ in the mysteries the mysticall signes are adored as beiÌ„g that they are beleeued to be That in the Chalice is not wine it is blood it is that which did issue out of the side of our Sauiour VVee drinke blood wee drinke blood with our mouthes it is powered into our mouthes that which faith beleeueth the same wee receaue with our mouth wee receaue the bodie and blood of Iesus Christ with our mouth into our bodies into our members So the Fathers Our B. Sauiour This is my body this is my blood I conclude with S. Hilarie S. Hilar. l. 2 de Trinit There is no place left of doubting of the truth of the flesh and blood for now both by our Sauiours profession and our beleefe it is trulie flesh and truelie blood And these being receaued and drunke do bringe to passe that wee be in Christ and CHRIST IN VS THE EIGTH CHAPTER Of Transubstantiation 56. IN the Councell of Trent is defined the conuersion of breade and wine into the bodie and blood of Christ which conuersion is there and in the Lateran Councell termed by a proper name transubstantiation To these Councells and to the AuncieÌ„t Fathers aboue cited you oppose a fewe obscure sentences One out of an Epistle of one Iohn of ConstaÌ„tinople falslie attributed to S. Chrysostome Another out of one Gelasius whom to make your argument seeme the stronger you stile Pope but falslie as Baronius and others haue demonstrated against your Caluin The third out of Theodoret a knowne Aduersarie of your cause Ep. ad Caes Mon. 57. The first Chrysostome saith the nature of the breade remaines Answere It is false sainct Chrysostome saith expreslie it is changed as you shall heare anon The Epistle which you cite is a refutation of Eutichianisme which beganne many yeares after S. Chrysostome was deade Chrysostomus videtur traÌ„substantiationoÌ„ confirmare nam ita scrible moÌ„ vidos paneÌ„ num vinuÌ„ num sicut reliqui tibi in secessum vadunt absit nec sic cogites nam sicut cera c. Magdeb cent 5. c. 4. col 517. the Author of it is also against you for he saith in the same place that there are not in the Sacrament of the Eucharist two bodies but one and that one the bodie of the soÌ„ne of God This man you see was not yours in this point his doctrine take it all is not curraÌ„t among you for if there be in the Eucharist onlie One bodie and this One the bodie of the sonne of God then breade in substance is not there because the bodie of Christ and naturall breade be not one and the same bodie by the nature he meaneth the proprietie or naturall qualitie of the breade which is allso called the nature and this doth remaine 58. The second Gelasius saith De Duab. naturis the substance or nature of breade doth not leaue to be Answere The meaning of this man is that it is not annihilated but the substance is turned into another thing and so as it remaines not in it selfe for it is turned but in the proprietie or proper accidents tast colour c. All this the same Author teacheth in the verie same place in these words they the substance of breade and wine do passe into a Diuine substance the holie Ghost effecting it yet remaining in the proprietie of their nature wherefore this maÌ„ whosoeuer he be is noe ProtestaÌ„t in this for he that holds the substance of breade and wine to be conuerted by the power of God into a Diuine substance the bodie and blood of Christ is no meere Figurist nor of your Schoole but this Author did old it as you finde in his owne words therefore he was not a Protestant as you are Theodor. Dial. 1. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 manent enim in prioris substantiae figura forma or manent enim in riri esentia c. Idem Dial 2 Idem transsubstantiationem videtur â—apere quod Theodoretusscribit sicut ergo Symbola c post innocationem 59. The third Theodoret saith our Sauiour deliuering the SacrameÌ„t called his bodie breade aÌ„d that which is in the Cuppe he called his blood he chaÌ„ged the names aÌ„d gaue his bodie the name which belonged to the signe and to the signe the name which belonged to his bodie Answere Reade further and you meete the solution of your difficultie The reason of the change of names was because he would haue such as partake the diuine sacraments not to heede the nature of those things which are seene the signes but for the change of names to beleeue allso the change that is made hy grace You replie out of another place the mysticall signes after consecration depart not from their nature but abide still in their former substance and figure and forme and may be seene and touched as before Answere It is true that the signes are not changed for those are Accidents those remaine but the substance whithin the signes or Accidents is changed The things are chaÌ„ged by reason of that which is interiour and within they are not changed by reason of that which is exteriour and without exposed to the sense mutantur alia fiuÌ„ c. Magd. cent 5. co 517. Ibidem 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And Theodoret proceeding saith they are vnderstood to be that they are made that is the bodie and blood of Christ and are beleeued and adored as beiÌ„g the things they are beleeued to be No man beleeues that breade is flesh No man doth beleeue these propositions to be true breade is a maÌ„s bodie breade is flesh flesh is breade No maÌ„ adoreth breade Now the Mysteries Theodoret saith are adored as being indeed the things which they are beleeued to be