there I shew also the reason wherfore and why And therfore I wene it wyl appere plain that I myssetake not the letter of his treatyse at all that his reason runneth out in dede agaynst euery kynde of men For there is neyther spyrytuall man nor temporall but he maye take harme by habundaunce But so is there as I there saye neyther spyrytuall man nor temporall but he maye wyth haboundaunce do good ¶ But nowe the declaracyon of his mynde in thys answere mendeth al the mater For here he declareth y t by these wordê of his in a maner stranglynge he meaneth the mynyshynge of some feruour as though a man wolde say that by almost killyng with a clubbe he ment the geuynge of a fylyppe in the forhed wyth his lytle fynger ¶ But syth that in this .vi. chapiteâ— of hys his great mortall stranglyng is nowe strangeled away and tourned into venyall synne we shall for this mater trouble you no leÌ„ger but eueryman maye take haly water and go home to dyner for seruyce is all done here for to day ¶ The counsayle of saynte Bernarde that he there speketh of to the pope Eugenius is in good fayth as me thynketh very well brought in And I wolde aduyse euery spiritual man to folowe yt and to take good temporal men to hym and let theym do all hys temporall besynesse for hym This thynke I good as for myne owne mynde but yf there be in any parte any lawes made all redy to the contrarye by suche folke as yt can not bycome me to contrall Howe be yt I suppose that myche parte of they re temporall besynesse is done by temporall men in dede ¶ As for his acte of parliament that he speketh of I suppose veryly that the clergye wolde not be agaynst yt And suche actes are there all redy made mo then one good and suffycyent but yf he meane to sette an addycyon therto that â—he kynges grace sholde expressely be bounden by the acte that yf he gaue any lycence of mortysynge into the chyrche yt shold be voyde excepte such cases as thys good man lyste to lymyte and geue hym leue Syth his hyghnes is now moued by this good maÌ„ here therto his grace may agre to it when yt pleaseth hym ¶ As for the great mater that he maketh of that I neuer in all the tyme that I was conuersaunt in the court could perceyue any of the noble men aboue the nombre of seuen and yet not nowe so many that euer thought yt good that any possessyons of the chyrche sholde wyth oute a lawfull cause be taken awaye there from I meruayle mych what he meaneth and what subtyll conceyte he conceyueth in his wyse breste that he so mutereth and muÌ„bleth vpon that word as though suche communicacyon eyther on the tone syde or the tother were of suche hygh importaunce that yt were eyther felonye or some heyghnouse mysprisyoÌ„ eyther in tellyng the tale agayn or els in kepyng yt counsayle so longe For I wote nere in good faythe in whyche of the twayne this good man fyndeth y e faute or whether he fynde any or none But yf he fynde any in which of the twayne so euer he fynd yt he fyndeth but his owne foly For nowe shall you good readers se what lytle insyght the man hath in any thyng that he readeth Fyrst he reherseth a parte of my wordê wryten in myne Apologye fo 130 where I saye that I neuer founde in all the tyme whyse I was conuersaunt in the courte of all the nobylyte of this lande aboue the nombre of seuen y t euer I perceyued to be of y â— mynd that yt were eyther ryght or reasonable or coulde be to the realme profytable wythout lawfull cause to take any possessyons awaye frome the clergye Nowe vpon these wordê ye shall se what he gathereth by whych ye shal se what wyt and what lernynge the man hath These are his wordes lo. Syth mayster More sayth that he hath not knowen aboue seuen wherof he sayth thre are dede that were of the mynde that yt were reasonable wythout cause to take possessyons fro the clergye in whyche wordes yt is coucluded that he knew seuen of that mynde whose opynyons yt lyketh hym to reherse and putte in writynge and in prynte also ¶ This man hath a special insyght in inclusyues and exclusyues when he weneth that in my wordes it were included that I knewe .vii. of that mynde that yt were reasonable to take awaye possessyons fro the chyrche wythout cause My wordes you wote well that I neuer knewe aboue seuen that wythoute lawfull cause to take awaye possessyons fro the chyrche thought eyther ryght or resonable or that yt coulde be to the realme profytable What include these wordê now Do they include as he saith y â— I say that I knew .vii. y t thought yt reasonable Thys maÌ„ ys so connynge in hys inclusyues exclusyues that he dyscerneth nothynge bytwene compulatyues and dysiunctyuys This man I se well neuer lerned the rule that almoste euery boy can that to the veryte of a dysiunctyue yt suffyseth any one parte to be trew Let hym now lerne yt therfore and thenne shall he perceyue that my wordê include no farther but that I saye that I knewe seuen which among them all thought some one of those thre thynges that is to wyt eyther some of them some one and some of them some other or els al seueÌ„ some one of those thre thinges that is to wyt eyther ryght or reasonable or profytable wythoute any determynacyon whyche of the thre And neyther includeth those wordes of myne that I say all seuen thoughte yt ryght nor that all seuen thoughte yt reasonable no nor yet that all seuen thought yt profytable But yt hangeth not vppon hys determynacyon but vpon myn owne declaracyoÌ„ which of these thre thinges whyche of those same seuen thought or whyche one of the thre they all thoughte and neuer one of those thre thynges is determinately included to any one of the seuen For yf I wolde saye that I neuer knewe in all my lyfe any man aboue the nomber of seuen that had ben eyther at Alkayre or at Salem or at Bizance do these wordes include that I saye that I haue knowen seuen that haue ben at Salem That am I sure they do not But I maye well stande by those wordes yf I sayde after that I haue knowen seuen persons that haue bâ—n al seuen at Bizance but as for Alkayre or SaleÌ„ I neuer knewe any one that hadde ben at any one of them both ¶ And in lyke wyse wyll I well stande by myne other wordes and veryfye theym wyth a good excludyng of this mannes includyng For I say and very trouthe yt is that I neuer found any noble man aboue the nombre of seuen that wythoute lawfull cause to take awaye possessyons fro the clergye thought yt eyther ryght or reasonable or that yt coulde be for the realme profytable I founde
haue sayd this vnto him sinnys to glose his fyrste wordes wythall And yet I meruayle that he coulde thynke theyr sayeng worth the reheâ—synge agayne For who can byleue y t any spyritual man wold be so madde as to call worldely honour vsed to goddê dishonour the honour of god I can scant byleue that any laye man wolde so tell hym at the leste wyse not wyth that adieccyon that he now putteth new therto ¶ But now yf it so be that vn the tother syde all spyrytuall men wold wyth one voyce to gether call the honour of god that wordly honour that worldely folke do to the chyrche and vnto spyrytuall persons for the deuocyon that good lay men bere to god and vnto spyrituall ê‘sons for goddis sake by reason of theyr holy orders and honorable romes that they bere in Chrystes chyrche though some of theym as this man sayth sometyme do not they re dutye therin but leue some parte of theyr dutyes towarde goddes honour vndone therfore yet for the deuocyon of the temporall persons that for goddis honour do iâ— they may all well call yt goddes honour in dede And therfore is thys good man in that poynte full answered as solemne a mater as he made therof ¶ But nowe concernynge hys formare wordes of the agrement of all spyrytuall folke to gether in y e mayntenaunce of theyr wordly honour for al they re pryuate dyspleasures and dyssensyons in other thynges among theym selfe wyth whyche he cometh in after here agayne and referreth hym to the commen opinyon of mych parte of the people bothe spyrytuall and temporal whether laye men so saye or not I saye that though al men so sayde yet is no man at dyuysyon wyth theym therfore For there is no cause wherfore any man shold For yt is none vnreasonable thynge that syth those thynges whych thys man speketh of that is to wyt those spyrytuall dygnytees to whyche he sayth suche worldely honour apperteyneâ—h are lawefully theyr owne eche of theym sholde in all laweful ways and such as are by no law prohybyted helpe assâ—ste other to kepe them though there be for pryuate maters of theyr owne varyaunce suyt betwene theym And thys may they with better coÌ„scyeÌ„ce do eche for other than eche of them for them selfe For in thys that they do for other is there not the synne of ambycyon that thys man here speketh of And this is the parte not onely of spyrytuall men relygyouse and seculare bothe but of euery good temporall man to and not onely to do so for them but euery man also for other And therfore what reason hadde those same some that so tolde this man yf there were any some suche in dede to take thys thynge for any cause of dyuysyon or why dyd not he so rather tell theym than putte they re founde tale in hys boke ¶ But than one pretie pyece he hath of two partes by whych he weneth that the spyrytualtye can in no wyse escape but that they muste nedys be betrapped in the tone For when he hathe sayde that the people saye that spyrytuall men be sometyme neglygent in kepynge or grauntynge charyte or in spedy doynge of iustyce or in duely mynystrynge some of the seuen sacramentes or in playne dylygent instructynge of the people then with a proper pyece of two partes thus he concludeth the mater And yf yt be not so as the people saye then are the spyrytuall rulers bounden to helpe the people oute of that iugement or ellys they be not wythout offence theym selfe And on the tother syde yf yt be as the people saye â— then are spyrytuall men bounden to reforme yt ¶ As for thys two handed sworde some yonge lustye freee wold boldely bete of wyth a two handed staffe and tell this man agayne that yf the peple as he putteth for the tone parte sayde in such thynges not trew than seeth he not nor no man elles neither what the spyrytnal rulers coulde do to put theym oute of that iudgement but tell theym nolite iudicare et non iudicabimini and so wyll that syde of the sworde do this man lytle seruyce And then on the tother syde yf the people in these thynges saye trew as yt is well lykely they do than trewe yt is that the spyrytull men be bounden to reforme yt But than is yt as trew agayne that the thynge beynge but suche as this man reherseth that ys to wyt neglygence but in some in doyenge of some parte of theyr dutye and that also but sometyme is no cause of dyuysyon to sette the whole temporaltye agaynge theym all and that syde of the sworde y e frere wold wyth this ende of his staffe bete harde vnto this mannes own hed ¶ Now goeth this man farther fo 27. and sheweth that myne answere to his wordes whyche you reade in the .xix. chapyter of myn Apologye be very darke by the reason that I vse therin so often this word Some saye whyche is he sayth done after a raylyng fashion But as you know wel good reders I haue takeÌ„ y t word Some say of his boke in whyche I redde yt so often that yt falleth somtyme into my penne ere I be ware ¶ And as for the raylynge fashyon yf I durste be bolde to tel so sadde a man a mery tale I wolde tell hym of the frere that as he was prechyng in the countrey spyed a pore wyfe of the paryshe wysperynge wyth her pew felowe and he fallynge angrye therto cryed oute vnto her alowd holde thy bable I byd the thou wyfe in the rede hode Whyche when the houswyfe herd she waxed as angry agayn and sodaynly she starte vppe and cryed oute vnto the frere agayn that al the chyrch rang theron mary syr I beshrew his harte that bableth moste of vs both For I do but wysper a word with my neighbour here thou hast babled there al this houre And surely good readers saue for lettynge of the word of god in this good mannys sermone I durste well in the same worde Some saye beshrowe hym and beshrowe hym agayne that moste hathe raysed therwyth of thys good man or me For reade my wordes there when ye wyll and you shall fynde that I wyth that worde do but in a maner playe wyth hym But by saynte Mary he how well so euer he ment hys wordes wyth his many Some sayes brynge good men in slaunder and obloquye of the people and peraduenture in parell to wyth vntrewe surmysed talys of mysse handelynge folke for heresye and all coloured vnder some sayes to make the lyes seme somewhat lykely Suche shrewd Some sayes lo be no mery sportynge but be sadde and erneste rude raylynges in dede ¶ Then he toucheth myne answere made in the sayde chapyter of myne apology double confuteth yt y t I saye that he hath herd some laye men say the contrary For fyrste he sayth he neuer herd lay man say to hym the coÌ„trary but that al y
tyme with this good man entre in this mater in to seryouse ernest argumentes But I shall shew hym a good mery cause wherfore that though I be of hys mynde therin yet I dare not aduise them there to The cause is that I se them haue so greate desyre feruent concupyscence towarde it that I am aferde to counsayle theym folowe it bycause of the scrypture that sayth Post concupiscentias tuas ne eas After thy concupyscences goo thou not ¶ I wyll make no lenger tale vpon this mater For if you rede my .xxvii. chapyter in whyche my wordes are that we now dyspute vppon I truste you shall not thynke theym so very farre out of the way but y t they maye be wryten without offence of Chrystes gospell well inough ¶ And also concernynge this word proude worldely countenauÌ„ce wherof we speke here vouchesaufe good readers to rede my .xxx. chapyter of myne apologye whych begynneth in the lefe .174 The .xi. chapyter HIs .xi. chapyter begynneth in the xxxvi lefe wherin fyrst he sheweth y t I reherse ryght and constre amysse thys worde of his And therfore ¶ You shall fynde my wordes good readers vppon these whole wordes that he reherseth here in the .xxxiiii. and .xxxv. chapyter of myne apologye of whyche to tone begyyneth fo 183 the tother begynneth fo 184. ¶ Here this man declareth that the worde of his boke whyche here also he well trewly reherseth do not importe that hym selfe sayeth y e thyng whych I by those wordes and amoÌ„g other by thys worde therfore afferme there that he sayth as of hym selfe But he sayeth that the wordes proue playne that he sayeth yt but onely of the reporte of mych other folkes thynkynge and not as of hys owne sayenge ¶ Surely neyther nowe nor in any place of myne apologye I neyther haue done nor intende to charge thys man that his mynde purpose was suche in his intent as the great lykelyhed of his wordes wold geue men occasyon to thynke But vn the tother syde that the wordes haue geuyn me good occasyon and suffycyent to saye as I there haue sayde who so rede the sayd two chapyters of myne apologye shal by the whole cyrcumstauÌ„ce of the mater very wel I suppose perceyue And you shall ouer that yf after those two chapyters redde you retourne to his owne declaracyon here in hys .xi. chapyter wel perceyue also that to kouer slyly that ouersyghte of his for surely I thynke yt was none other he leueth oute properly in one place this worde therfore wheruppon a good pyece of all the mater hangeth For in the ende of the .xxvi. lefe so thus he handeleth wylyly the mater And in that he sayth that I saye playnely those wordeâ— my seflfe he sayth playnely agaynste the â—etter of the sayde treatyse whyche ye that they haue punished many persoÌ„â— which mych peple haue iudged them to do vppon wyll and not that I sayd so my selfe ¶ Now good readers in this rehersall of hys own worde he reherseth his own wordes wrong For here he leueth oute as I told you the worde that maketh the mater Whyche he rehersed hym self in the whole context before For his wordis were not that they haue punished many persons whych mych peple haue iuged them to do vpon wyl but that therfore they haue punyshed many persons whyche mych people haue iudged them to do vppon wyl c. Nowe when he sayth hym selfe that they haue punyshed many therfore that is to wyt for the same cause and hathe before also shewed a cause of his owne dyuynacyon to hath vsed the same word therfore in y e same fasshyon before and this worde therfore which sygnifyeth for the same cause hath here in his laste clause nonecessarye place to the complement of the sentence folowyng it appereth that he sayth therin two thynges bothe that they therfore that is to say for y e same cause next before spokeÌ„ of the cause y t him self ther imagineth haue punished many and also that as he sayth yt so myche people iudged the same ¶ And this shall you the more clerely marke yf you tourne these wordes And therfore they haue punyshed many whyche myche people c. in to these wordê wherof the sentence is allone And for that cause they haue punyshed many whyche myche people c. ¶ And therfore that is to saye for that cause whych I before told you that is to wyt that you shold not perceyue thys poynte this man in hys laste rehershall as you haue herde bryngynge the thynge to the tryall lefte his therfore oute But reade my sayd two chapyters than as for the sentence of his open wordes I trust you shall byleue me As for the secrete meanyng of his mynde I pray you byleue hym For so that you byleue not the shrewd wordes of hys boke I wolde to chose you sholde byleue well of the good man hym selfe ¶ Now where he saith in y e .xxxvii. lefe that he thynketh I chaunge his mater bycause I wolde be lothe to haue yt reported that myche people take yt so veryly I chaunge not his mater But trouth yt is y t I am loth to haue that thyng so reported about For trewly y e report abrode is nought all though yt were not vntrew ¶ And were as for the farther maintenaunce of hys mater he sayth that yf I make serche therin to knowe the trouthe I shall fynde that myche people take yt so that many whyche haue ben punyshed for heresye the spyrytualtye haue done yt of no loue but of wyll for such euyll mynde as in the booke ys there ymagyned of them he hath of lykelyhed hym selfe made serche to fynde yt so For as for me though I go not aboute to serche that poynte of purpose yet I haue talked wyth many one in this meane whyle yet I thaÌ„ke god it is not my fortune to fynde out that same mych people that take yt so And yf there were myche people that so dyd yt were they re owne faute wherin I can not deuyse what the spyrytualty myght do to chaunge theym but onely praye god to mende theym And as for me yf there were myche people that so toke yt as I truste in god veryly there is not I wolde as my dutye were be surely very sorye for theym but in thys cause of trouth trewely I wolde not flater theym For though that sorte of people were neuer so myche in dede yet is the trouth in that poynt so clere agaynste theym that yf they re myndes were suche yt were bothe great shame for theym to saye yt and also great synne to thynke yt ¶ And surely that they re sayenge ys false and noughte in hys owne secrete iudgement you maye se good reders by this y t he laboureth so sore to put yt from hym selfe and wolde be so lothe to haue yt taken for hys owne And therfore whyle hym selfe thought they re sayeng so false he sholde
experyence that whyle there hathe in long whyle but in two dyoceses very fewe bene punyshed for heresye the slaunder that he soweth toucheth some very few no lesse theÌ„ though he wrote in theyr names How caÌ„ he therfore for very shame saye that yt is no dyffamacyon Weneth he the reders of his worke were all such folys that he myght auoyde his playne open dede wyth his bare bolde worde where he sayth yt appereth euydentely nay where euery wyse man that readeth yt seeth well hym selfe that yt well appereth euydently yes ¶ Nowe goeth he farther wyth a nother pyece and sayth Nor yet my wordes proue not that I wolde haue al spyrytuall iudges chaunged For the spyrytuall iudges that be nowe maye be iudges styll and haue al the propertyes before rehersed as well as other for any thyng that I haue sayd And yet mayster More taketh yt otherwyâ—e and sayeth I wolde haue such iudges as haue no spyce of any of the sayd poyntes And he sayth that tyll suche iudges may be founde heretykes may make mery for a lytle season whyâ—e men walke aboute and seche for such iudges which he weneth wyll not be done in a wekes worke ¶ Here he leueth oute agayne the place of myne that he toucheth For when that is ones redde all hys gay tale is gone For there shall you se that I consyder hys wordes and declare two wayes that the good man myght meane of whyche twanne he taketh here the tone and the tother he letteâ—h slype And yet in takynge his wordes as he wolde nowe seme my wordes whyche he dyssembleth here turne vppe aâ—l his tale and that the man sawe full well and therfore wynked of theym But I shall brâ—nge theym in agayne here and repeâ—e theym for hym Lo good readers in y â— .xlvi. chapiter fo 253. after hâ—s wâ—rdes rehersed at length thus I 〈◊〉 myne owne Iâ— thys processe lo good readers this pacyfyer declareth that he wold haue the kynges hyghnes and hys counsayle so specyally loke vppon thys mater that neyther innocentes sholde be punyshed nor yet wylfull offenders go wythoute dewe correccyonâ— who could ende and coÌ„clude all hys mater more frutefully But now the specyall ways wherby he dyuyseth that the kynges hyghnesse and his counsayle sholde bryng this thynge about be twayne The tone is yf they prouyde that neyther men that be proude nor couetouse nor haue any loue to the worlde be suffred to be iudges in any cause of hâ—resye The tother ys that the byshoppes shall arreste no man for heresye tyll the desyre that spyrytuall men haue to cause men abiure heresyes and to punyshe theym for heresyee be ceased and gone And surely I thynke that his two dyuyses wyll serue suffycyently for the tone parte that ys to wytte that none innocentes shall be punyshed But I fere me very sore that they wyll not serue halfe so suffycyently for the tother parte that ys to wytte that wylfull offendours go not with oute correccyon For now to begynne with his fyrst dyuyse that none be suffred to be iudges in cause of heresye y t are proude or couetouse or haue loue to y e world yf he meane of suche as haue none of these affeccyons wyth notable enormyte then tyll he proue theym that are all redy worse thenne he proueth them yet that is to saye tyll he proue yt otherwyse by some of they re outragyouse dedes in the dealynge and myshandelyuge of men for heresy y t he here defameth them of theÌ„ he hath yet proued and that he proue they re cruell wrongful dealynge otherwyse then by somesayes or by hys owne sayenge the kynges hyghnes hys counsayle can se for all hys holesome counsayle no cause to chaunge those iudges that are all redy but to leue them styll and them serueth that dyuyse of nought And on the other syde yf he meane that the kynges hyghnesse shal suffer none to be iudges in cause of heresye that hath any spyce at all eyther of pryde or of couetyse or any loue at all vnto thys worlde heretykes may syt styll and make mery for a lytle season whyle men walke about and seke for such iuges For yt wyl not be lesse then one whole wekes worke I wene both to finde such and to be sure that they be suche ¶ Here haue you herd good reders a resonable cause why that I sholde take hym that he wolde haue the spyrytuall iuges such as shold haue no spice of pride couetouse nor worldly loue For either he must meane so or elles as I sayde he must meane on the tother maner which I reherse fyrste and whych he wold now seme to mean But then as I haue sayd yf he ment in the fyrst fashyon as he wolde now seme all his tale is ouer turned For then hadde he no cause of any suche complaynte For he nâ—yther hadde hym selfe when he wrote nor any man elles preued by any of theym the contrary And then neded he not to spende oute hys profounde wysedome in makynge suche exhortacyons to the kynges hyghnesse and his counsayle to se with so great dilygence as though they had be so long neglygent to the thyng that him self could not say nay but y t it was metely well ynough all redy And thus you se good reders that he lefte oute and dissembled that fyrst part of my wordes bycause he wysâ—e nere what to saye therto And therfore syth except he meÌ„t in the fyrst maner which he could not do without the marryng of all his mater you se well that him self droue me to thynke that he wold haue the kynges grace and his counsayle se dylygently that there shold be no spyrituall iudgê but they y t had no spice of pryde couetise or worldly loue at all And then myghte heretyques as I sayd whyle suche iudges were in sekynge make mery for a lytle whyle And I kepte my selfe metely well wythin my boundes For where I sayde yt wolde be a wekes worke to seke theym I wene yt wold he fourtenyght ful ere we founde them ¶ But then gooth he farther somewhat aboute to shewe that I haue mysse handeled his wordes wyth ioynynge myne owne vnto his haue made yt seme that he sayeth myche worse by the spyrytualtye then he eyther sayde or ment But when you haue herde all hys tale and myne to you shall well se good readers that he shall neuer whyle he lyueth conuey this gere so clene For these are fyrste his wordes here And he sayeth that yt wyll be the more harde to â—ynde suche iuges For he sayth that I haue putte that mater oute of doute that where no men wolâ—e haue wende â—oneste to haue founde theym that there I saye yt wyll be meruaylouse harde to â—ynde any one of theym eyther prelates seculere prestes or relygyouse persons For he saythe that I saye playnely that haue they neuer so many vertues besyde that yet I saye yt wyll be harde to fynde any one spyrytuall man
though by goddes grace he desyreth not that it so shold yet out of dowte in dede sholde turne to thencoragynge of heretykes and encreace of heresyes wyth the mynysshement and decaye of the catholyke chrysten fayth wherupon wold not fayle whych almyghty god kepe from vs his greuouse indygnacyon vpon vs. And therfore god kepe vs from suche reformacyons ¶ Now to laye to me therfore as a greate fawte that I blame his boke in those vntrew some sayes that vnder colour of ceacynge dyuysyon excyte and set forth dyuysyon but yf my selfe coulde ceace it Whan suche bookes make it is myche lyke as yf he wold say that there ought no man to blame hym that wolde burne vp a nother mannes howse but he that wolde buylde it agayne ¶ And therfore with thys good reason of his be putteth me in remembraunce of an answere that a man of myne made ones myche after the same fashyon I had sometyme one with me called Clyffe a man as wel knowen as mayster Henry Patenson This Clyffe hadde bene many yeres mad but age had taken from hym the rage so that he was metely well waxen harmlesse among folke In to Clyffes hed came there some tyme in his madnesse such imagynacyons agaynst images as these heretykes haue in theyr sadnesse For lyke as some of them whych after fledde and ranne awaye and some fell to thefte and were caught pulled down of late vpoÌ„ LondoÌ„ brydge thinmage of the blessed martyr saint Thomas so Clyffe vpon the same brydge vppon a tyme fyll in talkynge vnto an image of our blessed lady and after suche blasphemyes as y e deuyll putte than in hys mouth and now a dayes bloweth out by y e mouthes of many heretykes whyche seme they neuer so sad be yet more madde than he he sette hande vppon the chylde in her arme and there brake of y e necke And afterwarde whan honest men dwellers vppon the brydge came home to myne howse and there blamed Clyffe before me and asked hym wherfore he brake of the chyldys necke in our ladys arme whan Clyffe hadde herde them he began to loke well and erenestly vpon theÌ„ and lyke a man of sadnesse and grauyte he asked theym tell me â—hys amonge you there haue you not yet sett on hys hed agayne No ê™ they we can not No ê™ Clyffe by y e masse it is the more shame for you Why speke you to me of it than ¶ And euyn thus answereth me now thys good man whyche where hys sedycyouse some sayes set forth diuysyoÌ„ and breke the chyldys necke rekeneth it a shame for me to fynde any fawte wyth hym for y e brekynge but yf my selfe coulde glew it together agayne ¶ And therfore where he sayth that I sholde haue proued that all the causes that he layeth as causes of dyuysyon be no causes of dyuysyon or ellys I sholde haue deuysed the remedyes albe it I haue answered hym therin all redy yet thys I saye therin ferther that I haue proued wel clerely y t the very chyef cause y t he sayeth is layd very vntrewly that is to wytte the mysse handelyng the people to theyr destruccyon vppon suspycyon of heresye Whyche cause yf it were as trewe as yt ys false were so weyghty that it were well wurthy to be layde for a mater of dyuysyon And whyle it is not trewe yet by suche kookes beynge blowen aboute in euery parte of the realme for trewe maye well mysse happe to make a dyuysyon whyle the dwellers in euery quarter aboute by credence geuen to the booke may at the fyrste face wene that though it be not so there as they dwell them selfe yet wene I saye that it were so in al other places Wherof though they shall by leysoure perceyue the contrary wyth serche yet they that aske no ferther questyon shall byleue it styll And so a rumour onys begonne and spredde abrode ys not after soone remoued ¶ Nowe as for hys other causes of thys dyuysyon dyuerseâ— I haue towched and shewed suffycyentely that they be not suffycyent But as for me to peruse hys whole booke of dyuysyon thorow was no parte of my purpose For yf those thynges that I dyd towche hadde semed to me tollerable I wolde in good faythe haue bene lothe to haue towched theym eyther In whyche whyle with hys consideracyons and declaracyons he goeth about now to shew that he than ment none harme I wyll not therin mych hynder hym but be gladde rather to forther hym in thexcuse of hys menynge and so dyd I as I haue sayd euyn in myne apologye to But though I be glad to excuse his own mynde in the menyng yet can I not excuse his vnwyse folowynge of false wyly counsayle in the doynge The .iii. chapyter THe .iii. chapyter coÌ„teynyng hys secoÌ„d consyderacyoÌ„ rede and coÌ„syder it who so lyste for I can se nothynge in it to be consydered by me For in effecte in conteyneth no thynge ellys but that he wolde the clergye shold as myche as they may auoyde all accasyon of murmure and grudge of the temporaltye towarde them but yf it be pharysaycal grudge ye and though the dede that they sholde forbere were good in whych poynt bycause that one poynt wolde waxe a songe worke I wyll fall in no dyspycyons But in as farforth as he geueth any man good counsayle and wysheth all thynge well so farforth shall he and I not varye but and he call me to hym I wyll syt and pray for yt wyth hym ¶ But yet where he sayth in th ende of the chapiter that I endeuour my selfe very myche to oppresse al them that wyll shew suche thynges of the spyrytualtye in dede some suche as haue made suche lyes I haue tolde yt theym But as for any oppressyon let hym proue one and let hym call that one .xx. And if he can ê“ue none as I wote well he caÌ„ not then good reders let hym be beleued therafter ¶ More ouer where he sayth that I in my mynde proue yt an intollerable defaute in the people for mysse iudgynge the clergy where as I thinke they haue no cause so to do and that therin I leue theym as though all the whole cause and pryncypall defaute were in the temporaltye wherin he sayth that my iugement is farre deceyued in this poynte good reder he sayth somwhat to me yf he sayde trew And sure yf he thought that he wrote herein trewe then wysedome wolde he sholde haue wryten myne owne wordes in And yf he fered that yt wolde be founden false then honestye wolde that he sholde haue leste hys owne wordes oute But veryly good readers and he seke thys seuen yere he shall in all myne apologye fynde you no suche wordes of myne But he shall fynde farre the contrarye For I do there I wote well in suche places as I shewe that men were vnreasonable that wolde take thys thynge or that thynge suche as I reherse of hys bryngynge forthe for any reasonable cause of dyuysyon there
not I saye aboue seuen that thought any one of all these thre is not this trew yf I found seuen y t thought all thre yes forsoth trewe ynough though I neuer found any one y t euer thought any two of the thre And nowe therfore though I neuer founde any noble man so vnryghtuouse or so vnreasonable as to thynke yt ryght or reasonable wythoute lawfull cause to take awaye any possessyons from the clergye yet haue I founde seueÌ„ that haue thought yf ryghte and reason wolde bere yt they coulde tell howe that as for worldely polycye some of the possesseons taken awaye myght be to the realme profytable And some one hathe thought that yt wolde be peraduenture profytable to the realme that the lordes hadde the landes whose auncestours had mortysed theym And peraduenture he that so thought shold not haue lost a grote by yt And some other hathe thought that it wold be more profytable to put yt into hospytalles of some certayn new fashyoned foundacyon and therof neyther make prestes the maysters nor no laye men neyther but some good sad honest vertuouse wydos that wolde be tendable tendre to syke folke and that shold yerely yelde a compte vnto thordynarye And some other haue thought yt better to dyuyde cant yt amonge good pore husband men that shold tyl the ground theyr own handes take the lande for theyr labour with dyuers other dyuyses mo euery man after hys own mynde And what harme was there nowe in any of all they re myndes y t thys good wise man wold haue my wordes seme so heygnouse vppon a sentence that hym selfe includeth in theym and whyche sentence of hys reason excludeth from theym and in whyche as you playnly se proued thys man woteth nere what he meaneth And to th entent y t he shold wel knowe that the mater is nothynge ferefull therfore wrote I that thre were dede bycause he sholde well wyt that there were yet the more parte a lyue And therfore yf the good man thynke any great heygnouse offence in the mater lette hym come to me hym selfe and I shall brynge hym to some of theym that shall not make yt straunge to say agayne the same to hym selfe and than he may vse it at his pleasure as his hygh wysedome shal thynke conuenyent Than sayth he farther in the secoÌ„de syde of the .xviii. lefe y t he can not tel what cause I wold thynke a cause resonable to take any possessions from y e chyrche But yet syth yt is implyed in my wordes that some cause lawefull and resonable there may be he thynketh he sayth y â— peraduenture yf I were asked the question therin by theÌ„ y t haue authoryte to do it I wolde shewe what I ment therby There shal in good faith nede no gret soleÌ„ne examynacyon of me by men of authoryte for that mater For I wyll not stycke to tel yt vnto hym selfe but haue tolde yt al redy to hym and euery man ellys that lyste to reade yt a good whyle a go in my booke of the Supplycacyon of soules and there maye thys good man go seke yt yf yt please hym and then vse yt as yt lyke hym ¶ But fynally after his harte some what eased he cometh to hym selfe agayne and endeth the chapyter very well wyshynge the clergye the grace that the apostles had and declarynge that he neuer desyred them thapostles pouertye and exhortyng theym that haue aboundaunce of possessyons to be well ware so to vse yt as yt be not a let of the deuocyon that they sholde haue to god and the charyte that they sholde shewe to they re neyghbour In these thre thynges he sayth as me thinketh very specially well And I praye you hartely good readers euery man theâ— rather at my pore request what so euer he wrote before thynke now that he ment then but thus The .vii. chapeter HIs seuenth chapiter begynneth in the .xix. lefe and therin vppon a sex leues he argeweth agaynste a lytle doute that I moued vpon the begynnynge of his fyrste chapyter of hys dyuysyon whych wordes of his and myne theruppon begynne in myne apologye fo 101. And the same poynt is touched agayne there fo 106. When you haue there redde what I â—â—y then may you rede here hys answere wherin he declareth y e mater and argueth it by cases of law mych after the maner of a motable case ful wel fauoredly in good fayth and wyth longe labour proueth at laste that yt must be taken in such wyse as he seeth y t among other construccioÌ„s I coÌ„strued his minde my self though I was loth to do so bycause y t waye was the worste for hym selfe But nowe he remedyeth that wyth a lyne or twayneâ— wherin he declareth y t he ment not to preferre euery seculare preste byfore those that are in relygyon wherin I wold haue trusted him as well vppon his worde as vppon the reason that he layeth for it now whyche saue for the truste that I haue to his word I wold wene he neuer thoughte on whan he wrote the dyuysyon but rather ended y e clause in suche wyse as yt happed wythout any respect peradueÌ„ture to theÌ„crease and growynge of the sentence in the ende ¶ I was ones halfe in mynde here to haue kepte scoles wyth hym yet in this poynte ones agayne euyn all of pleasure and to haue broughte yt yet agayne in questyone whether the cyrcuÌ„staunces of his wordê were able to proue that he ment otherwise than he now argueth y t it muste nedê be taken And then yf the cyrcumstances so dyd whether commen vsage and acceptaunce of a worde sholde agaynste the cyrcumstaunces of the mater haue lyke strength in all other thynges as yt hath in maters of law and whether the reason vsed in the courtes in maters of law be of lyke strength in euery other thynge as they be when they be made in mateâ—s of lawe and of lyke vygour and force in euery place abrode as they be in the courtes in whyche they haue ben longe receued and accepted for sure and stable groundes ¶ And whyther in this poynte betwene hym and me beynge no mater of the law nor perteynyng to the iudgement of any court but to be consydered by the whole people in euery mannes reason at large the cases of the lawe of thys realme that he bryngeth in whyche be iudged and sure and shold serue the tone parte in the lawe though the mater were the weyghte of a thousande pounde sholde hycause we be englyshe men and our mater wryten in Englande and in Englyshe wordes stande for a sure and an insoluble argument though the lawes both ciuyle and canon that are called the comen lawes of all chrystendome besyde vs were as peraduenture they be in the selfe same cases full and whole to the contrarye And yet wolde I besyde thys a lytle haue assayed so to shake his cases of London and Mychelmasse y t per aduenture to many
suche dyuysyon or not And after he sayth that in the tother place I confesse that there ys a dyuysyon and call yt there the late sprongen dyuysyon Lo nowe he forgetteth thys lytle shorte worde this monasyllable Suche whych he rehersed fyrste in bryngynge forthe my fyrste place and then by and by eyther of forgetefulnes or ellys of wylynesse leueth oute in hys illacyon that he maketh vppon the same wordes of myne ¶ Nowe good readers you se well that to saye there is a dyuysyon and to saye there ys no suche dyuysyon be nothynge contrarye at all For I dyd in dede not deny but that some dyuysyon there was that ys to wytte some lytle varyaunce in some place begonne and by some fewe naughtye folke blowne forthe to farre For a lytle waye ys to farre in suche a thyng But than meane I a dyuysyon such as yt ys not suche a dyuysyon as thys man by hys booke maketh yt I maye well wythoute contradyccyon saye to hym There ys a dyuysyon and yet saye that there ys no suche dyuysyon as he speketh of For yt is not all one to saye there ys a dyuysyon and â—o saye there ys suche a dyuysyon ¶ Nowe yf I wolde stycke wyth hym vpon tryflys I coulde proue hym that If dothe not alwaye purporte a doute as he sayeth that yt alwaye dothe but ys sometyme vsed to conferme a certayntye As yf a man say he that dyeth in dedely synne shal go to the deuyll yf goddes word be trewe douteth not of the trouthe of goddes worde but by the trouthe therof meaneth to coÌ„ferme the damnacyon of theym that dye in dedely synne ¶ But I saye not this as though yt sholde be lyke in myne For I do not in dede take If there in such fashion And therfore I wyll not do here by If as thys man doth by As in hys chapyter nexte byfore in heresyes spoken as of polycye vsynge y e sample of wordes spoken by a good man in reprochynge of hypocrysee to be lyke hys owne wordes spoken in the mynyshynge of they re blame that vnder suche pretexte of polycye wolde speke and sow aboute playne and open heresye I nede here no suche wayes for my wordes For here haue you sene your selfe by his owne wordes that there ys in my wordes no contradyccyon at all The .xiii. chapyter HIs .xiii. chapiter begynneth in the xxxix lefe and by y e rehersynge of diuerse wordes of his owne in dyuers other places of his boke here he declareth his mynde that he entended not in his boke of diuysyon to brynge in among the people any hatered agaynste the spyrytualtye ¶ Now in dede I do my self declare expressely in many places of myne apologye that what so euer wordes I speke therin yet I ment euer more th entent of hys boke and not of hys person And all though that in some places I say the pacyfyer here doth this or that to this euyll purpose or that yet I mene euer the dede his the malyce of the purpose some other wyly shrewys whyche not beynge fully of so good catholyke mynde as I thynke all waye this man is hym self which openly dysprayseth these new broched heresyes and with detestacyon of them reherseth them by name haue abused his playn simplycyte makyng him wene good sowle y u while he dyd put in of his own good mynde these good wordes whych he reherseth here and with them here there in some sondry places pretyly powder y e boke it coulde not be taken that there were any hurt ment in the hole worke togyther how euyll wordes and how malycyouse so euer the sotle shrewys made hym stuffe vp y e boke with bysyde Was not that a synful wily way of theÌ„ to begyle a good symple soule so For I wysse it is eth to se that yf the good man were not of hym self very simple playn those dowble wyly shrewes coulde neuer deceyue hym so as to make hym wene that these wordes whych he reherseth here in his .xiii. chapyter were any maner token that his boke of diuisyon ment not to brynge the clergye in hatered amonge the people ¶ For who were there that so intendynge wolde yet for shame vtterly say that there were none good and not rather to kepe his credence in slawnderynge the body wolde caste in sometyme an excepcyon of some In suche crafte is no great sleyght It is but a comen playne poynt and as easy to spye as a longe nose vpon a lytell face specyally whyle as clerely as he sayth that there be many good yet as you maye se folio .238 of myne apology he sayth playnely that it is harde to fynde any one with out that poynt that yf he saye therin trew the very beste is very nought and as badde as a very beste And for y e ferther profe of this point rede myne answere to hys .xvii. chapyter in thys boke ¶ And where he speketh here of the fere that he wold euery man sholde haue of the leste censures of the chyrche as though he therin ment myche the fauour of spyrytuall men consyder the place euyn here in hys new boke where he speketh of inquysycyons oâ— heresyes in his .xvii. chapyter and you shall well perceyue that they that made hym there put those wordes in ment lytell good to y e clergye For it is there layed in a mater full chyldyshly to theyr charge as though they wolde haue all the iustyces of the peace and all the iuryes of the realme accursed for enquyrynge of heresye ¶ But yet is it of all thyngê a vâ—ry specyall pleasure to se how he vseth here for a playne apparent profe of hys good mynde towarde the spyrytualty that he wisheth wel for them and prayeth god to sende them habuÌ„dauntely zele of sowles pitye good doctryne and deuowt prayour And sayth that than a new lyght of grace sholde shortely shyne c. and that he sayth also that it is great pytye and mych to be lamented that the spyrytualtye do not faste and praye and do other good dedes to ceace the dyuysyon withall but y t all that euer they do therin moste comenly is that they take it that they that fynde defawte at theyr abusyons and mysse order loue no prestes but do all of malyce that they do to destroye the chyrche and to haue theyr goodes and possessyons them selfe and that therfore the clergye thynke it a good dede to se them punyshed and therfore that is to saye for that same cause haue they punyshed many persons which mych people iudge to haue ben done of wyll c. And sayth also that they do coÌ„tinue styl after theyr old course preteÌ„dyng by coÌ„federacyes worldly polycye and strayte correccyons to rule the peple where he vseth these thynges whyche I haue here rehersed out of his .xiii. chapiter of this his newe boke and somwhat made them more playne with addyng therto his owne other wordes wryten in his diuysyon as you maye rede
of heretyques as some haue made hym of the spyrytualtye yf hym selfe therin saye trewe as he semeth to haue geuen to theym that haue reported vnto hym that there are many heretiques For than syth after hys owne preachynge here a man oughte to be so well ware howe he lyghtely reporte agayne any euyll lyghte reportes that he hathe herde to the slaunder of any one man hym selfe wold not of lykelyhed so lyghtely haue made such euyll report in that poynt to the slaunder and obloquye of the prelates of the spyrytualtye therby to brynge theym in grudge of the whole temporalty vppon such lyght reportes made vnto hym by some lyghte symple persones where as by the kynges honorable counsayle the trouthe hathe ben so playnely proued to be contrarie ¶ But yet where as he confesseth that he hathe herde yt sometyme reported that there be many heretyques I wolde fayne wyt of hym whether that suche reporte haue ben made vnto hym by any of the temporaltye If he saye naye but that all that so tolde hym were spyrytuall men than may they byleue hym that thynke hys answere lykely For I wolde wene in my mynde that betwene hym and spyrytnall persones were not so myche famylyare companye as to come to tell hym that tale For he semeth not very metely for spyrytuall men in that mater to make theyr mone vnto And than yf he harde yt eyther of temporall men besyde or of temporall men onely and no spyrytuall men at all than dyd he not very well when he wrote in hys dyuysyon that spyrytual men make that noyse for a polycye And yet also wolde I farther wyâ—â— whether he haue herde any speke heresyes in any place where hym selfe was present in companye If he answere me naye than wyll I preace no farther vppon hym but let euery man as I saide before byleue yt that thynketh yt lykely But on the tother syde yf he answere me ye than wolde I fayne farther wyt whyther euer hym selfe wente so farre wyth theym as to proue whether he sholde by hys owne rule in thys chapyter haue cause to shewe theyr ordynarye of theym that he myghte sende for theym or ellys that herynge folke so speke heresyes by hym he toke all to the beste alwaye of his owne specyall goodnesse and leste he myghte wyth questyonynge happe to fynde yt worse folowed euer in that mater the good counsayle that saynt Poule gaue in a nother mater nolite interrogare propter conscientiam aske no questyon leste you brynge a scruple into your conscyence If he vsed any dylygence in questyonynge than were yt well lykely that he founde in all thys longe whyle some where at the leste wyse some one ¶ But now yf he herde them speke heresye founde no faute therwyth nor no questyon asked then ys yt as I sayde lytle meruayle though he neuer no where in al England fouÌ„d one And that is euen one of the very thynges whyle many folke nowe fall to the same fashyon to heare heresyes talked and lette the talkers alone whyche yet wyll yf they be brought into the court byfore the iudge tell than the trouth and wyl not be so false as to be forsworen thys is I say one of the very special thynges for whyche in cryme of heresye the suyte ex officio whyche in the next chapyter folowyng he laboreth â—ore to destroye maye what so euer thys man saye in no wyse be forborne but yf we wolde haue the â—iretes swarme full of heretyques why the very lykely were to folowe though he saye naye .xl. tymes And that haue I agaynste hys boke of dyuysyon well declared in myne Apologye And he hath agayn here in thys boke defended in that poynte his boke of dyuysyon as your self shal anon se god wote wyth myche worke full febly The secuÌ„d part The .xv. chapyter HIs .xv. chapiter concernynge the suit ex officio begynneth in the xlviii lefe of his boke holdeth on into y e .liiii. ¶ And for as mych good christeÌ„ readers at it may well appere that this poynt is the specyall thynge that he fayne wolde brynge about that is to wyt to sowe an opinyon in mennes heddes that it were good to chaunge and put awaye that suit toward whiche purpose all his boke of diuysyon bendeth laborynge fyrst with his so many some sayes to brynge the spyrytuall iudges in suspycyon and obloquy and make the people wene y t they meruelousely dyd with mych wronge cruelty mysse handle men for heresye therfore I shall in thys poynt here confute hys argumentes so playne in such wyse that who so lyste indyfferently to rede bothe the partes shall fynde here causes good and suffycyent why by his vnreasonable reasoÌ„s neuer after to set a flye ¶ And fyrst bycause ye shall well se that I wyll not wrestle in the darke but brynge the mater into lyght open and playne at your eyen I wyll in this mater leue you not out one word of this his .xv. chapyter but brynge forth his wordê with myne And thaÌ„ whyle you rede the tone fyrste the tother euyn after hande there shall neyther he nor I by any sly sleyght deceyue you ¶ But two thynges for thys mater wyll I requyre you fyrste one that you reiecte one wyly sleyght of hys with which he goth about euyn from the begynnynge to corrupte our iudgement that are temporall men and in y e redyng to blynd vs with affeccioÌ„ ¶ For in all this mater he maketh as there were two partes The tone he maketh the spyrytualtye And thys cause he so maketh theyrs as though the coÌ„modyte of that suit to be kepte were a thynge that perteyned onely vnto theÌ„ The tother partye he maketh vs of the temporalty whom he wold haue put y e same suit away For though that in the perleament be spyrytuall men also yet all were they al vpon one syde sure he seeth wel they were to fewe ¶ But it is necessary that we consyder in this poynt that though the iudges be spyrytuall yet yf that suit be necessary for preseruacyon of the catholyke fayth than is the profyte not the spirytuall mennes onely but that profyte and aduauntage is our owne to And yf by the chaunge of that suit ex officio the decay of the catholyke fayth shall folow in this realme than is not the losse and damage vnto the spyrytualtye alone but the harme is importable vnto the whole realme ¶ Therfore haue this poynt in this mater euer before your eyen that y e chaunge of that law yf that lawe be good but yf he chaunge it in to a better or at the leste as good is a comen harme to the whole realme And that harme happeneth in y e gretest thyng that we coulde possyble take harme in yf we be as I wote well we be euer entende to be faythfull trew chrysten people ¶ Loke therfore good readers both to his reasons and myne and yf you fynde by his reasoÌ„s that the
where they dare not he deuiseth a remedy whych seldome yet or neuer suffycyentely shall serue the mater And the tother cause that I call moost commune as in very dede it is that cause he neyther denyeth nor any one word speketh of it but softely slynketh besyde it as though he hadde neuer redde yt what maner of answerynge good readers call you this ¶ More ouer lest he myght deny me that I sayde trewe therin I layed there for the profe the playne comen experyence whiche this good man hym selfe I am very sure but yf he be a recluse and haue ben all his lyfe knoweth well to be true and in dede he sayth not nay ¶ Then go I there farther yet and I declare what profyte there cometh to the commen weale to geue suche folke herynge such folke I saye as this good man wolde haue reiected backe and taken for false or malycyouse bycause they come secretly and wyll not theym selfe openly bycome accusers Therin lo these are my wordes â—And yet shal he sometyme geue the namys of dyuerse other whyche beynge called by the iudge and examyned as wytnesses agaynst theyr wyllys both knowe and wyll also depose the trouthe and he that fyrste gaue enformacyon also and yet wil neuer one of theym wyllyngly make hym selfe an open accuser of the party nor dare peraduenture for his earys ¶ This thynge good readers euery man euery where fyndeth trewe that any order of iustyce in his hande And in these wordes you se well I tolde hym there ones agayn not onely that some dare not but that though men dare they wyll not excepte the thynge do pryuately touche theym selfe for the causes of the commen weale become open accusers And as I agayne there tolde yt hym so he here agayne forgeth yt ¶ Then go I yet forthe a lytle farther and these are there my wordes And this fynde we not onely in heresye but in many temporall maters amonge our selfe wherof I haue had experyence many a tyme and oft both in the dysclosynge of felonyes and somtyme of myche other oppressyon vsed by some one man or twayn in a shyre wherby all theyr neyghbours sore smarted and yet not one durste openly complayne ¶ Lo thus I there declared good reders by coÌ„men eyperyence that if meÌ„ shold do as this man here deuyseth reiecte euery man for malycyouse crafty y t wil geue secrete informacioÌ„ but yf he be coÌ„tent to bycome an accuser opeÌ„ly there sholde myche harme growe therof not in heresyes onely but besyde y t in myche other myschief to To al this gere you se good readers that this good man playeth as though he caÌ„e in in a muÌ„mery for any one word he sayth whyche shold not so haue scaped hym ye may be very sure but that he sawe full surely that he coulde neuer answere them For though he wold haue denyed all that I speke of myne owne experyence yet in the lyke thynges so many men of worshyp dayly do proue the thynge trew that I tell yt for that he could nothyng wynne in his cause by al that denyenge And yet dyd I not myne own selfe my besynesse in such wyse but that I can yf nede requyre proue it playne inough But of thys gere as I sayd he denyeth nothynge nor answereth nothyng neyther thervnto And sure maye you be y t if he had coulde he wold not haue fayled to haue done the tone ¶ And therfore good readers my wordes stand styll so sure that thys good man hath not yet nor neuer shal whyle he lyueth be able to voyde them with all the crafte he can but that yf men wolde be so farre ouersene as in thys mater to folow hys deuice to put awaye thys olde lawe the suit ex officio and truste that all wolde be well holpen by meane of open accusers it wolde at lengthe come to passe the thyng that I haue sayd that y e stretes were well lykely to swarm full of heretikes ere euer that ryght few shold be therof accused or peraduenture any one heretyke eyther ¶ And now good chrysten readers syth you se so clerely that by suche chaungynge of that law y e catholyke fayth shold decaye I care not now greately what he saye for his second parte syth he hath so fowle an ouer throwe in the fyrste vppon whiche fyrste parte all the mater hangeth For though he coulde in his seconde parte make you now good profe not onely that there myght but also that there dyd hath done greate harme grow by that suyte whiche he shall neuer proue you whyle he liueth but at sundry tymes that of late where it hath ben so surmysed it hath alway be proued the contrary yet syth you se well that by this chaunge that he deuyseth while we wold helpe these harmes that he speketh of that is to wytte that no man sholde be conuented of heresye causelesse we shold by the prouydyng for that harme be the cause of farre more hurt and harme in the stede that is to wyt that when that suyte were so chaunged the catholyque fayth sholde dekaye and heretyques so sholde encrease that by such insurreccions as they haue here byfore made not in other countreys onely but in this realme of EnglaÌ„d haue also atteÌ„pted y â— same put yt vppon the parell assey to robbe spoyle and kyll also myche innocent people openly and tourne folke from the fayth by force and worke other maner of maystryes many mo suche aâ— myne harte abhorret so myche as to reherse or name Syth euery man may se I say that suche harme were in parel to fal by this chaunge of hisâ— there wyll I wene no wyse man folow his fonde deuyse in puttyng this law away all though he proued wel in his seconde parte that there were harme in the kepynge whyle he can not defende the coÌ„â—rorye but y t there were incoÌ„parably mych more harme in the leuynâ—e ¶ But by what waye he proueth y â— there is great hurt in the kepyng that shall we now coÌ„syder After whyche well examyned I shall agayne retourne good readers efte soon vnto the fyrst that this suyt ex officio takeÌ„ onys away the stretes wâ—re lykely to swarme full of heretykes And as clere as you se that ponte al redy and that this man hath therin neyther answered nor ones touched suche thynges as your selfe se that I sayd therin before yet shall I make yt you anon with the farther foly of his deuyse double ere we deê‘te so clere ¶ Concernynge the seconde parte thus lo thys man begynneth But â—o putte the partye that 〈◊〉 complayned on 〈◊〉 answere and to condempne hym yf he saye contrarye to that the wytnesse haue sayde not knowynge who â—e the wytnesse ne who be hys accusere yt sâ—meth not reasonable to be accepted for a law For as I haue sayde in the sayd treatyse yf he that is accused knewe theyr names that accused him he myght percase allege and proue so
al theÌ„ y â— were membres of that generall counsayle and in all the wyttê of al chrysten regyons that haue vsed and allowed y t lawe for good euer synnys reason wolde I say that he sholde at the leste haue layed some reason here wherfore y e lawe can not please hym that he whiche though he be not proued gysty of the dede is yet proued suspecte shold purge hym selfe after tharbitrement of thordynarye that is to wytte in suche maner wyse as thordynary sholde thynke conuenyent vpoÌ„ the qualytees of y t person cyrcuÌ„stauÌ„ces of y e cause coÌ„sydered ¶ Suppose now y t there were none other maner of purgacion but by his neyghbours swerynge wyth hym that those wordê ad arbitriuÌ„ epi were not writen in the law were it yet reason to accepte his oth in what so euer maner the man wolde hym selfe deuyse it and with as few handes as hym selfe lyste appoynt and with what maner folke so euer hym selfe wolde brynge ¶ Nay syr For it may so be y t there shal be good cause why somtyme and in some place that thordynary sholde not putte some man to that kynde of purgacion which yf he dyd were he neuer so noughty he shold be sure of compurgatours peraduenture mo than inough ¶ For it hath ben sene in many cuÌ„treys ere this somtyme in england to that some euyll precher prechyng playne opeÌ„ heresyes shold yet if he myght haue ben put to such purgacyoÌ„ haue lacked none handes to lay on the boke with hym that he neuer spake suche wordes How be it where y e wordê are opeÌ„ playn heresye y e law hath ê“uided an other way for y e remedy good inough ¶ But thaÌ„ haue there ben some prechers such ere this y e techyng playne heresies to theyr familiars secretely wold prech in such wyse abrode that theyr wordê shold haue two senses one bote serue for eyther legge like a shypmans hose so shold be tempered as the peple shold haue occasyon alway to take them to the wurst and hym selfe yf he were examined wold say before thordinary swere to that he neuer ment but the beste ¶ Now whan it shold by good wytnesses appere y t his maner was such the peple toke mych harme therby alwaye toke his wordê so that they thought he so meÌ„t theÌ„ y â— he purposed by them to set forth aduauÌ„ce those thyngê y t were stark heresies in dede yf thordinary shold thaÌ„ appoint him with other coÌ„purgatours to purge this suspicioÌ„ were these suspicioÌ„s neuer so vehemeÌ„t he shold lacke no coÌ„purgatours to purge hym self euery weke thaÌ„ do as he dyd before And many good symple folke takyng him eueÌ„ as he ment shold fall into his heresyes y â— whyle wene while he preched so styll y t to byleue y e way were no perell ¶ And therfore those wise men that made y e law left y e thyng in thordinarys discrecioÌ„ to assigne hym that is proued suspect of heresy such kynde of purgacyon as the cyrcumstaunces of the person and the peple and the tyme shall most requyre ¶ And therfore wyll thordynary to some man so suspecte somtyme assygne hym to purge his suspycyon y t with his lewd maner of prechynge he is fallen in to the greate hurte of his herers that he shall openly confesse y t those heresyes that the people toke hym to mene be very salse here syes in dede and openly shall deteste them and swere that he so byleueth them to be and swere that he neither ment to teche theym nor neuer was mynded y t any maÌ„ shold take hym so nor neuer wold afterward teche nor hold heresies but abiure theÌ„ for euer ¶ And yet for the ferther purgacyoÌ„ of such suspicioÌ„ the ordynary myght also enioyne hym some certayn thynges to do suche as maye declare the more clereli y t he is not of such mind as open prechyng agaynste the selfe same heresyes the doynge of some suche thynges as those heresyes dyd stande agaynste ¶ And now by this purgacyon thys good shall he do that yf he wolde after preache the same thynges agayne though he vsed agayne such a nother wyly fashyon yet wolde his audyence then thynke thus as many as hadde any mynde to be good eyther this man meaneth nowe by his wordes to teache vs that poynt that hym selfe hath abiured and then lette vs not lerne the thynge of hym that he wolde in no wyse we shold or elles he meaneth to tâ—ache yt vs styll for al his abiuracion And then wherfore sholde we be so madde to byleue a false wreche y t wold make vs byleue now that that thynge were trewe whyche hym selfe hath openly coÌ„fessed and sworen to be false ¶ But then wyll happely this good man say that this abiuracyon is perylouse for iubardye of the relapse The parell of deth by relapse is not vppon euery abiuracyon But of trouth he that is abiured vppon such thynges proued as maketh hym not sleyghtly but very vehemently suspected yf he fall after into heresye putteth hym selfe in parell to fall into the fyre And very good reason yt is that yt be so And a man may some tyme be so suspecte of felony by reason of sore presumpcyons y t though no man saw hym do yt nor hym selfe neuer confesse yt but saye and swere to that he neuer hadde yt yet may he be founden gyltye of yt and theruppon haÌ„ged for yt and haue no wroÌ„ge at all ¶ And thus this prouysyon for purgacyon at the dyscrecyon of the ordynarye is not I truste so vnreasonable nor they so vnreasonable that made yt nor they so vnreasonable y t ratified it nor al they so vnresonable y t thys two or thre huÌ„dred yere haue accepted and allowed yt but that yt maye nowe stande by thys good maÌ„nys leue at this daye as well as yt hath standen all this whyle before But yet is there one thiÌ„g y t he taketh for a thing very sore For thaÌ„ is there sayth he a nother law that if he that is so proued suspect refuse to pourge hym self at the discrecyon of thordynary and be for hys conâ—umacy excommunycate that in that case yf he of an obdurate harte stande so accursed an whole yere he shal be punyshed as an heretyke And that ys as he sayth by the law Extra de hereticis capitulo Excommunicamus ¶ This prouisyon was made as I tolde you in the sayde generall counsayle And where he bringeth it forth as though yt were a very sore thyng and a cruell yt is in dede very fauorable For sauynge that I wyll not do as he doth go fynd fautes in their doynges that were so many so mych better and had so myche more wytte then I elles could I lay a lytle better cause to proue that prouysyon ouer fauorable then euer this good man shall fynde whyle he lyueth to proue that prouysyon to sore And surely he that beynge proued suspect
bere wytnesse that there is lytle witte therin and lesse good wolde growe therof yf folke wolde folowe his inuencyon and make of the lawes a chaunge ¶ Now that you haue good reders hâ—rd what we saye bothe before Now shall you se how substancially this man defendeth his fyrst wordes agayne These are so in this xvi chapyter of hys newe boke hys wordes Nowe by reason of this obieccyon I wyll speke somwhat father in thys mater then I dyd in the sayde treatyse And fyrste I wyll saye thus that yf ys to me a great meruayle to se mayster More so faire ouerseen or elâ—ys yf he be not oâ—â—rseen therin that then he wolde yf he coulde deceyue other and make theym so farre ouerseen to byleue that yt shulde be one lyke reason of a periured wytnesse that wyll loke lyke a lambe and saye contrarye to that he hathe deposed before and of a wytnesse that cometh to depose in a matter that he was neuer yet sworne vppon For when a wytnesse ys broughte in that was neuer sworen vppon the mater byfore the iudge maye not by the lawe refuse hym nor iudge any defaulte in hym oneles he knowe a suffycyent cause hym selfe in that behalfe or that the partyes do alledge yt but he muste byleue that he ys honeste good and indyffâ—rent tyll the contrarye be shewed as euery man ys in charytye bounde to do of hys neyghbour But when a wytnesse hathe deposed in the courte and then wyll offre hym selâ—e to depoâ—e to the contrarye that he sayde byfore the iudge maye wyth good conscyence mystruste and thynke that he doth yt of lyghtnes of mynde hatered or for corâ—upcyon of money ¶ If I were in thys poynte ouersene I nede not greately to be ashamed of the ouersyghte For then hathe there bene many suche other men ouersene also as I wolde not wyshe to be wyser And I no more entende to deceyue other men in thys mater thanne many other haue entended that vsed and allowed thys thynge that I defende now byfore such men as wyth the coÌ„dycyon that I were neuer worse I wolde neuer wyshe to be better This maÌ„ maketh as though it were great shame for me to liken to gether a person ones periured and a person that was neuer yet ones sworen I wolde in dede be a shamed to lyken theym to gether in euery poynte all though there were no more dyffereÌ„ce betwene theym but that the tone had a longe nose and the tother a shorte But I am not mych ashamed to say that for some purpose where he speketh of the tone I maye speke of the tother and lyken them well ynough to gether For I may say as I said that lyke wise as he that hath for sworen hym selfe may fayne hym selfe to saye trew and loke lyke a lambe and yet be a woulfe in dede euyn so I saye maye he that neuer was sworen byfore ¶ Ye sayth thys man but yet these two be not lyke For he that was neuer sworen there is no cause to mystruste nor presume that he wyl play the woulfe in a lambes skynne But he that hath bene forsworen is of reason to be mystrusted and yt is to be presumed y t he wyll play the woulfe in a lambes skynne ¶ Marke yet in the meane whyle y â— yf I could make no father answere yet hadde I wonne and he loste For his fyrst wordê were in his boke of dyuysyon that he that confesseth hym selfe forsworen shold in no case be receyued to swere agayne the contrarye bycause that though there seme a good cause to byleue hym in his seconde othe yet yt maye be that he dothe but fayne and I sayde so may he to fayne and dyssemble that neuer was sworen byfore And then yf the onely power and habylyte to fayne were a cause suffycient to put any oue man from berynge witnesse vppon his othe euery man were by reason repelled for euery man ys able to fayn This was as you se y e thynge that I then sayde Whyche thynge neyther this maÌ„nor any man elles is able to confute nor proue the forsworen man and the man vnsworen vnlyke in the poynte that I lykened them that is to wit in powre and abylyte to fayne And farther then that went not I. For I had no farther cause in answerynge hym there whyle he wente no farther there nor sayde none other but that he that was forsworen may fayne And nowe reade your selfe his wordes and loke whyther I say trewe ¶ But nowe thys beynge proued as yt is proued playne that he hathe a fall in those wordes whyche he spake byfore let vs a lytle se whyther wyth thys leysour after hys mater agayne consydered a freshe he haue caughte any better holde now And surely me thynketh not one whyt ¶ For where hys newe reason resteâ—h in thys that he whyche confesseth hym selfe ones forsworen is by reason mystrusted as one not onely to be able to swere false and wylyly cloke hys falshed vnder a colour of trouthe but also presumed that he so wyll do in dede to thys I saye that he sayeth trouthe as longe as there is no greater presumpcyon on the tother syde to serue for hys seconde othe But when the case happeth that there is as yt happeth in the case of this lawe than ys the presumpcyon that he wyll swere false gone as I shewed you byfore And then that presumpcion by a greater presumpcion beyng purged this man forworne and the man vnsworn are in the thynge that I resembled them for waxen well lyke agayne And that the sayde presumpcyon ys purged I shewed you byfore in that it is now a greater presumpcyon for his seconde othe that he wyll not foâ—swere hym selfe to the parell of his frende and hym selfe to ¶ Then goeth he farther and enforceth his reason with the reason of the lawe before y e peragraph Licet was made And therin thus he sayth In so mych that byfore that parag Licet was made the iuge myght none otherwise haue done of iuâ—â—yce but to haue refused to haue taken any farther examynacyon of hym And yf he hadde and the other had sayde contrarye to that he hadde sayde byfore hyâ— saynge hadde ben voyde in the lawe ¶ And thys thynge wherwyth he thynketh his reason made the sâ—renger maketh his reason a great deale febler For whyle the generall rule of refusynge suche wytnesse in all cases was made so longe byfore it appereth playnely that necessyte found the faute and caused oute of the generall rule this case to be made an excepcyon and so the lawe made by better delyberacyon ¶ And in such other horible crymes the same lawe is vsed in temporall courtê and was also before that law made by the chyrche ¶ But agaynste all thys yet thys man maketh me this reason what the makers of the sayde peragragh ment to put into the dyscrecyon of the iudge that yf he saw by euydent tokens that yt is not done of lyghtnesse
harte and of a new knowlege of the treuth and of a very zele vnto the â—ayth and yet do it in dede of couetyse falshod rancoure and malyce to the party And so as the gospell sayth he may happe outwarde to appere in the apparell of a shepe and within forth be a raumpynge wolfe And suche one maye that periured wytnesse be that iâ— spoken of in the sayde treatyse And of suche a wytnes in heresye the sayd treatyse speketh onely there and of none other witnesse as to the readers wyll appere And therfore as me semeth mayster More fyndeth defaute in thys behalfe where he hadde no cause reasonable so to do ¶ Now good reders where as this man sayeth that he ment that suche a forsworen wytnesse maye happely play the woulfe in a lambes skynne I graunt that he ment so But as I graunte y t to hym so muste he grauÌ„t thys agayne to me that so maye he playe to that was neuer sworen before And than whyle he goeth no ferther but that the tone happely may and can not hym selfe saye naye but that the tother happely maye so to there foloweth vppon that the thyng that I sayd before whyche this man sayth he merueyleth mych y t I wold say that ys to wytte that by that wyse reason there sholde be receyued in suche crimynall causes no maner wytnesse at all ¶ Now yf he leue his may happely and say that it is lykely that the forsworen witnesses wyll say false and the tother trew that neuer was swo ren before and that the witnesse ones forsworen afore is in his secund othe contrary to his fyrste more lykly to playe the wyly woulfe in the lambes skynne than suche a playne symple man as was neuer sworen before I wyll be so bolde for thys ones as in some case to tell hym boldely nay For where he sayd a lytell afore y t he coulde not se how there coulde be any suche euydent token in any suche case but that such a periured wytnes myghte do it of a secrete hatered and seme charytable and so play y e wyly woulfe in the simple lambes skynne I can se well inough y t in some case there may be an euydent token that some suche wytnesse as was so fyrst forsworen were after in his secunde othe swerynge the contrary lesse lykely to lye play the wyly woulfe in the lambes skynne than were an other that neuer was in hys lyfe before neyther forsworeÌ„ nor sworen ¶ For yf he that was before vppon his oâ—h examyned both of hym selfe his sone or of hym self his father or his other specyall knoweÌ„ frende on his othe clered them all do at an other tyme vppon a new oth confesse them all gyltye and hym selfe also and where peraduenture hym selfe must to the fyre bycause he was abiured before they maye turne yet in tyme be but abiured were not thys an euident token that he doth it not of any secrete hatered nor playeth not the wyly woulf in a lambes skynne For i wys to confesse hym selfe gylty in such case and puttyng hym self in worse case than hys felowes were but a pore poynt of a wyly woulfe And as I putte thys case for ensample so may there be many other For the tokens myght be playne inough though they were lesse playne thanne thus And therfore to conclude in this mater this man hath no reasoÌ„ in this worlde to defende hys fyrste booke wythall ¶ And therfore where he spendeth a patche in the ende about his declaracyon that it may be lawfull for hym to fynde defaute at lawes made by the chyrche so that he fynde them vppon a suffycyent reason bycause all that poynt nothyng helpeth hym here in this law agaynst whych he sheweth no reason reasonable but a reasoÌ„ as vnreasonable as euer reasonable man herde I shall I saye therfore let that piece passe by and here make an ende of hys .xvi. chapyter The .xvii. chapyter HIs .xvii. chapyter begynneth folio .lxii. In y e begynnyng wherof he merueâ—â—eâ—h that I speke so ofte in myne apology of his vsyng this word Some saye And he sheweth that in a â—ale tolde hym by other folke there is good reason that he so sholde say and that I vse the same worde my selfe to sometyme and telleth two places where fo 77. and fo 100. I neither dyd nor wyll fynde fawt that he vse this worde some say nor I wyll not let where the case requireth to saye my selfe y t some say this or that For I know well it is englyshe But the fawte that I founde and yet fynd is that hys booke of diuysyon abuseth the figure of so many some sayes to the sedicyoâ—s slawnder of y e clergye and specyally of thordinaryes in the punysshement of heresy to bryng theÌ„ in obloquy of the people therby And where as vppon coÌ„playntê made the maters haue late ben examined the treuth hath ben playnely proued contrary yet hath he neuer one Some say therof in al his boke neyther in y e tone boke nor the tother but all hys Some sayes euer more saye euyll neuer a Some say well This is the fawte that I fynde For yf he made a boke with fiue times as many good Some sayes as his Some sayes in that boke be nought I wold fynd in his Some sayes no defawt at all For some say is as I saye good englysshe But whan a booke is full of shrewde Some sayes there do some men saye that Some saye is as shrewd an englysh as any dowch woman speketh ¶ But now to shew that in all hys Some sayes he meneth none harme he goeth ferther and for a sample he bryngeth forth one whych is in very dede a very malycyouse noughty pestylent Some saye wherof the pretence is the sauegarde of innocentes theffecte is the dekaye of the faythe by the boldyng of heretykes the instrument is a false imagyned slauÌ„der agaynst the ordynaryes And as wylyly as those shrewys that begyle hym haue holpe hym to inuolue and inâ—ryke the mater I shall vse so playne and open a waye therin that euery man shall well se the trouth Lo these are thys good mannes wordes And one of the some sayes that he fyndeth defauâ—e at is thys I saye in the .viii. chapyter of the sayde treatyse thus And here some sayeâ— that bycause there is so greate a desyre in spyrytuall men to haue men abâ—iured or to be noted wyth heresye And that some as it were of a polycye doo noyse it that the realme is full of heretykes more then it is in dede that it is very peryllous that spyrytuall men shulde haue auctoryte to arresâ—e a man for euery lyght susâ—peccyon or complaynt of heresye tyll that desyre of punyshement in spyrytuall men be ceassed and gone but that they sholde make processe agayne them to brynge them in vppon payne of cursynge and then yâ— they tâ—â—ye .vi. dayes the kynges lawes to bryng them inâ— by a wrytte
not agree nor stande to gether And therfore me thynketh yt wolâ—e not be so lyghtly passed â—ueâ— as mayster More doth passe yt ouer For yt is a dangerous thynge to fall into the lefte censure of the chyrche ¶ There were two causes for whyche I answered hym not one a generall cause concernynge all hys maters of lawes of the chyrche wherin he fyndeth fautes of whych I shall speke afterwarde A nother specyall cause there was concernynge thys excoÌ„munycacyon And that was that me thought yet thinke that he spake therin so chyldyshely that I was a shamed on his byhalfe to medle with yt and to make open hys chyldyshe handlynge therof ¶ But nowe syth I se hym compte for so great a conqueste that he put me to sylence therin what purpose can he dyuyse for whyche I sholde haue answered any thynge to that poynt had I made any professyon to proue euery worde wronge that he sayd in all hys hoke he knoweth that I sayde not that I wolde medle but wyth those certayne thynges that I there speke of ¶ But now suppose that there were in that law such faute as he allegeth what could myne answere ameÌ„de the mater or his boke of diuisyon either If men were accursed as he mysse taketh it could my boke or his boke take away the curse No but we may put the parlyament in mynde to make a lawe His boke alone is as able to put theym in remembraunce therof as hys and myne to gether And yet for that poynte neyther nedeth myne nor hys neyther For the parlyament hath made all redy a lawe for these inquysycyons Whych yf thy myght lawfully make in such forme as they haue as I am sure they myght theÌ„ am I sure y t they fall not in excoÌ„munycacyon for it Now if they myghte not laufully make it therby fel ther in what could the parlyameÌ„t farther adde vnto it that might deliuer them of yt And therfore I can not in good fayth se to what purpose he wrote of that poynte hym selfe ¶ No but thys lawe is one great cause of dyuisyon betwene the spyrytualtye and the temporaltye That wolde I very fayne wyt howe For temporall men be not I wote well so farre ouersene as to be angry wyth the spyrytual men here now for that lawe that a pope made at Rome ere they were borne And the spyrytuall men haue also as lytle cause agayn of any grudge agaynst the temporaltye for the mater And therfore why he sholde put yt in hys boke of dyuysyon for a cause of diuisyon I can dyuyse no reason Foras for that that he wolde shold seme a cause here is to vnresonable where he sayth As long aâ— that law siddeth so vnrepelled sâ—me prestes that se yt wyll saye that they that do agaynste yt be accursed and so may lyghtly fall theâ—by into a wrongfull and vntrâ—w iudgement whych though yt be no great offence oneles yt be of pryde by dyspysynge of the temporall power in that behalfe yet yt wolde be eschewed And also yf they that be so noysed to be accursed here of yt they wyll be dyscoÌ„tented And so grudges and varyaâ—nces maye ryse and encrease by occasyon of yt ¶ Thys is a very colde tale as dede as euer was dore nayle For before hym selfe broughte in thys babelynge of his owne about that lawe whych babelyng is yet as I haue shewed you to no purpose at all I neuer herd any maÌ„ talke any such worde of that lawe in my dayes nor in good fayeth no more I wene dyd he neyther ¶ Nor I dare saye he hereth no where yet any prestes saye that the iustyces of the peace be accursed for enquyrynge agaynste heresyes none I dare saye but suche prestes as be heretyques And therfore thys whole tale of his saue for the malice that yt meaneth ys euyn a very tryâ—lynge ¶ For as for y e mocyoÌ„ y t he maketh so often to haue that lawe repelled bycause yt is he sayth agaynst the lawes of the realme excepte he mokke I wote nere what he meaneth For yf the realme here may repell yt theÌ„ by y t the law is here made to the coÌ„trarye yf yt were contrary as yt is not yt is repelled all redy And yf he thynke that the realme here can not reâ—ell yt thenne wereto wryteth he and prenteth that pyece in his boke of dyuysyon as a thynge for whyche the temporaltye the spyrytualty of thys realme sholde fall in varyauâ—ce for where neyther the makynge nor the repellynge lyeth in neyther nother of theyr handes ¶ But surely the repellyng though yt be the thyng that is spokeÌ„ of is not yet the thynge y t ys ment in thys mater as yt aypereth in these wordes And therfore me thynketh yt wolde not be so lyghtly paâ—sed ouer as mayster More doth passe yt ouer For yt is a daungeroâ—s thynge to fall into the lefte censure of the chyrche And yf yt be sayde that the sayde lawe ys voyde bycause the chyrche hadde no authoryte to make yt And that yt is therfore not to be fered And I wyll yet say therto that though yt were voyde that yet as longe yt standeth so not repelled yt were good to eschewe it and not to fal wylfully into the dauÌ„ger of yt and therfore yt were better to repelle yt then to lette yt stande styll and rather do hurte then good ¶ Here you may se good readers that where as otherwyse to repell that law then it is repelled lyeth not in oure handes yf oure lawe were agaynste yt and where as of â—routhe yt nedeth no repellynge at all but the lawe of the realme standeth ther wyth well ynough he maketh as though al â—he iustyces of peaâ—e were accursed there by as ofte as they geue the iuryes in charge to enquyre of heresye therfore leste they sholde wylfully fal into the censures of the chyrhe wherof as he sayth the leste is a dauÌ„gerouse thyng ye may playnly se that these wyly shrewes whych abuse his labour meane in all thys mater nothynge ellys but that they wolde not haue heresyes enquyred of And yet they nede not so greatly to care therfore for any great thingê y t by such inquisycioÌ„s are in heresyes presented But yet thus declare they theyr good wylles these wyly shrewes y t thus deceyue this good symple soule set hym so euyll a worke ¶ If he fere so myche y e ceÌ„sures of â—hâ— chyrche as he maketh for and vndâ—rstande and byleue Summa Rosella so surely as he pretendyth yt hadde ben better for hym to examyne well hys boke of dyuysyon and thys his seconde boke also by the tytles of Summa Rosella and se well why ther hym selfe varye not fro SuÌ„ma Rosella be by y e senteÌ„ce of SuÌ„ma Rosella fallen in the censures of the chyrche hym selfe by some such maner of wrytynge as hys sayde bokes haue ¶ But now cometh this good pacifiâ—r forthe wyth a goodly pyece to
as I sayde before euery wyse man well woteth there are many other affeccyons bysyde all suche feare that lette men to become accusers in heresye and yet letteth them not to do otherwyse truely and charytably theyr dewtye both in secrete detectyng of them and also in open berynge wytnesse agaynst them whan they be called forth and coÌ„maunded by y e court to depose that wyll neuer as I sayed of theyr owne offre make theym selfe a party and openly become theyr accuser ¶ Now what if there were but two wyâ—nesse of the mater suche as were well able playnely to proue y e thyng yf neyther of both maye be herd but yf the tone shold become thaccusour whan the tone were made party thaÌ„ were the profe lost But we shal not nede myche I warraunt you to care for this case For of theÌ„ both you shal haue neyther nother that wyll ¶ How be it yet hath this good maÌ„ at last founden a good way for that For lo syr thus he sayth And than yf the wytnesse wyll not auow it but an other wyll geue credence to hym and auoâ— it than it semeth reasonable that they that wyll geue credence therto and wyll reporte it be taken aâ— accusers takynge those wytnesses for theyr warraunt yf they be denyed ¶ If he thynke it lykely that none of them wyll become accusours that were present and herde it them selfe than is it yet lesse lykely that he wyll become the accusour that hereth it but at a seconde hand And therfore me thynketh that this deuice is not mych wyser than the deuice that a good felow deuised ones for his neyghbour that had a greate hylloke in his close whiche for planynge of y â— ground he couÌ„sayled hym to haue it away Mary ê™ his neyghbour I muste carye it than so farre that it were lesse losse to me to geue away y e close all Mary neyghbour ê™ the tother I shall soone fynde a way for that For I shal deuise a pronisioÌ„ y t it shal be had away yet neuer caryed hense For euen there as it lyeth lo dygge me a great pytte cary it neuer ferther but berye it euen in that Where shall I thaÌ„ lay that hepe ê™ his neyghbour that cometh out of the pytte At that the tother stâ—dyed a lytle But whan he hadde well bythought hym mary ê™ he euen digge another greate pytte vnder that and bery me that hepe there ¶ So this man wyll in any wyse lo haue awaye this hyllocke this suyte ex officio that he sayeth dothe here myche hurte howe shall we haue yt away say we without yet mych more hurte Good remedy sayth this good man shortely shall I deuyse Putte accusers in the stede of that suyt and they shall do myche better who shall be thaccusers say we Mary sayth he they that here them They wyll not say we bycome accusers in no maner case No wyl they sayeth he then be they but false shrewes what remedy then say we to supply the sayde suyt A redy waye sayeth he take some other that heareth the tother that herd the heretike speke He will myche lesse bycome accuser saye we then they that herd yt theym selfe what hath this good man farther to saye then bydde vs take then a nother that wyll And euer we folowe styll say we shall neuer fynde hym and that word he denyeth not but alwaye byddeth vs go gete one And now yf the second man were coÌ„tent or the fyftenth after yet hath this man marred all thys mater with one thynge For you wote well that yf y e wytnesse that sayth he was present and herd it his owne eares wyll refuse to bycome thaccusar hym self this good man wyll that y e ordynary shall take hym for malycyouse or false Now than yf we gete with longe labour some other man to accuse yet hym that herde it and wold not be thaccuser hym selfe syth the bysshoppe must take hym alwaye for malycyouse or false in the mater he maye neuer accept hym therin for a wytnesse For yf we take hym for frauduleÌ„t maliciouse to the partye this mannes credence is tenne tymes lesse in all reason than his is that afterwarde deposeth to his harme where he was fyrst forsworeÌ„ whyle he wold fayne haue done hym good and that man wolde not this good man byleue after in no wyse ¶ And thus bothe for the tone cause and the tother for lacke of an accusour and credence of the wytnes you se playnely good readers that by this mannes deuice yf we dygge vp and bery this hylloke ex officio we shall whan we haue all done say he what he lyste make leue that neuer wyll than be voyded as great an hyllokâ— of heretykes in the stede ¶ And this you se good readers that this good man sheweth vs yet no leâ— but that for any thynge that he sayth here yf the suit ef officio were chauÌ„ged as he wolde haue it and in stede therof truste all vnto accusours of whyche for any thynge that he deuiseth we were lykely to fynde few as I feare me veryly rather none at all it were well lykely to come to passe as I sayd that y â— stretes sholde swarme full of heretykes ere euer they were conueÌ„ted and repressed by his way Of which sayenge of myne as mych meruaile as he saith he hath yet sheweth he nothynge as you se wherfore he shold meruaile of it nor to the thynges that I preue it wyth he no more answereth than though he neuer herd them ¶ Whyche dealynge of his you may clerely perceyue euyn by the very same lefe wherin I wrote those wordes of which he meruayleth so mych and hath so lytell cause For there lo my wordes be these For surely yf the conuentynge of heretykes ex officio were lefte chaunged into another order by whyche no man sholde be called be he neuer so sore suspected nor by neuer so many men detected but yf some man make hym selfe party agaynste hym as hys accusour the stretes were lykely to swarme full of heretykes byfore that ryght few were accused or peraduenture any one eyther These were lo my wordes in myne apology against which you haue herd what he sayth Than bycause he shold not nede to meruayle at the mater I shew by by what maketh me so to say For there it foloweth thus ¶ For what so euer the cause be it is not vnknowen I am sure that many wyll gyue to a iudge secrete informacyon of such thinges as though they be trew yet gladly he wyll not or perâ—â—uenture dare not be opeÌ„ly knoweÌ„ that the mater came out by hym ¶ Consyder here good readers that as to bycome open accusars I speke here of two lettes One y â— men wyll not another that some men dare not And yet that they dare not I put as the more rare more seldome Now cometh thys good answerer and for the more seldome y t is to wyt