among brethren The assumptiō or second part of the former Argument is granted by the answerer answerer himselfe in his answer to the first Argument yea it is manifest by the good successe of their ministery from God in the sayd Argument mentioned Yea and that this argument from the blessing of God upon their ministery is of force and much to be respected appereth by the words of the blind man reported with commendation by S. Iohn This is a mervelous thing that ye know not whence he is and yet he hath opened myne eyes Now we know that God heareth not sinners but if any man be a worshipper of God and doth his will him heareth he And verse 33. If this mā were not of God he could haue done nothing Was this argumēt good from the opennyng of the eyes of the body of one that was borne bodily blind and is it not much stronger from the openyng of the eyes of the minde of many that are borne spiritually blind The further answer of M. Powel to this third Argument conteyneth nothing but that which is partely answered before and partly to be answered afterward Therefore I passe the same by and come to the 4 argument The Fourth Argument The Israelits so respected a bodily deliverance wrought by Ionathan for them that they saved him from danger of death Ergo Much more ought this Christian high Court of Parliament being not a company of rude souldiers but the cheife flower of this Realme and representing the whole Realme so to respect the spirituall deliverance of themselues and of many other wrought by the Ministers now silenced etc. That they speake what lawfully they may for all lawfull releefe of them against their troubles The marginall notes G. Powel a Ionathans case and the Schismaticall Ministers is altogether unlike And the urging of this zeale having not the like cause seemes to be dangerous But I spare my brethren The author urgeth not this argument from Ionathan as from a like example but from a comparison a minore ad maius from the lesse to the greater Therefore though there be not the like cause yet there being greater viz. From consideration of a spirituall deliverance there is no danger therin The author by this example moveth only the Parliament to be zealous for the saide Ministers Is there danger now in the zeale of so wise judicious an assembly It is also acknowledged by the answerer afterward that the Israelits did justly rescue Ionathan Is there any danger then by an example of them that did justly to provoke the wise Parliament to pleade with a wise and religious Prince for the Ministers Wherin then doth this answerer spare vs that seeketh every corner to find something for which he might if he could hang us G. Powel b The greater is their sinne whose superstition and wilfull obstinacy hath restrained their libertie and made them unserviceable in the Church Reply Is it not a strange thing I had almost saide sinne that it should be accounted sinne superstition and wilfull obstinacy yea such as makes men vnserviceable in the Church in feare of sinnyng against God soberly to refrayne from humane Ceremonyes and yet swearing swaggering rioting gamyng dronkennes whoredome adultry even in the sight of the world should not make men unserviceable etc That such things are in many suffred and countenaunced in the ministry is knowne to many of the Parliament house If his Christian Majestie were also rightly informed thereof I doubt not but that thinges would be otherwise ordered Further answer to the 4 Argument The Ministers did but their duety etc. If men should alwayes be so answered when in their necessities they should require some help and comfort in regard of some former kindnes would not men cōdemne such answerers of great ingratitude in humanitie viz. Thus to be answered that which you haue done was but your duety G. Powel Ionathans example is unlike unto the suppliants For Saule in hypocrisy had made a rash vowe etc. But the actions of our Soveraigne are not so exorbitant etc but advised and just etc. See how wise the children of this world are in their kind Reply The author altogether wisely and purposely as it seemeth concealed the name of Saule in the argument that he might reason from the comparison of the worke onely of Ionathan in a bodily deliverance for the better regard of the Ministers now silenced etc. In respect of the spirituall deliverance of the people by them This I say he doth without any mention at all of Saule that so the worke might be generally and simply respected in it selfe without any perticular eye unto Saule out of whose hāds the people delivered Ionathan He respected their thankefulnes in delivering Ionathan from death without respect of the person that would haue put him to death Agayne I know not why the answerer should thinke the author to meane rather our gracious King as answerable to Saule then the Prelats the cheife and principall actors in all wrongs and injuries done unto the Ministers pleaded for except that either he had rather impute all hard dealing to his Majestie than to the Prelats or that hereby he would provoke the more wrath against the author and all by him supplicated for whom before notwithstanding he seemed greatly to spare Further if the Israelits justly rescued Ionathan as the answerer confesseth they did iustly much more iust is it that many ministers should be releeved in their troubles If yet they presse the author further for meanyng Saule and comparing our King unto him as Saule was the Lords annoynted what is the danger wherein the answerer before should bragge of sparing his brethren Can he gather any undutifulnes towards his Majestie Or can he imagine the author to haue intended any forcible meanes to be used by the Parliament that sitting to make lawes against force and violence towardes any subject must therefore much more themselues be farre from offering any force and violence towards their Soveraigne Doe the words in the Argument to be Zealous and earnest import any such matter Force and violence of any especially of subjects against their Princes is rather of Popish fury and madnes then of any Christian zeale and earnestnes Besides the often most Honorable mention of his Majestie in the Arguments and his expresse pressing the Parliament to doe all in humility modestie in the next argument yea that they should not onely use boldnes but christian boldnes yea that they should put forth all their giftes and graces of knowledge Zeale compassion modesty and humility yea finally that in the preface he petitioneth nothing by him written to be understood of any other meanes then good honest lawfull peaceable and agreable to every mans calling All these things doe abundantly cleere the author from all undnetifull intent and meanyng against his Majestie That the Israelits did not in such humility speake for Ionathan to Saule as they should
Kings most excellent Majesty but that in all things he hath conceaved and written most reverently Christiantly and duetifully of his Majestie 2 That he is as vntruely charged with any vndutifull speeches against the Nobility or any other that haue obeyed his Majesties procedings 3 That the Ministers pleaded for are not refractary superstitious or schismaticall neyther confronters of the Magistrat or troublers of the state but that these and other the like imputations doe rather belong to their accusers 4 That our Churches of England are in nothing so glorious state as is pretended by M. Powel and other prelaticall persons but rather in divers respects and for divers parts thereof in lamentable condition 5 That the late proceedings of the Prelats against such Ministers for not subscribing conforming etc that many of the late Canons or cōstitutions are contrary to the word of God the lawes of this Realme 6 That the oth likewise Ex Officio is repugnant to the lawes of this Realme yea abrogated by them only inforced by forreyne Canons 7 That the obedience loyaltie of the Ministers for conscience of Gods word not conforming themselues is as good as of the greatest conformitans yea that their not conforming thēselues in that respect maketh more then conformity for the good safetie of his Majestie 8 That the Considerer of the arguments in his inconsiderat consideration of them hath most unreverently and undutifully censured the High Court of Parliament for their late most religious indeavors in behalfe of the Ministers pleaded for in the sayd Arguments 9 That the Ministers soe deprived doe not forsake their callings 10 That although the number of the Ministers so deprived be but smal in comparison of other yet the deprivation of them the loss of their Ministery is dangerous for the whole Church in this kingdome 11 That the Considerer of the arguments ofttimes offendeth in thos things which unjustly he objecteth unto the author of the arguments viz in sophistications in generall and particularly in begging of the question as also in equivocations in vayne repetitions of the same things for encreasing of his volume and lastly incontradicting himselfe yea sometyme in one and the same place 12 That he and other the Prelats most striving for conformity doe attribut more to conformitie then to any more materiall principall duties of the Ministery expresly commanded by God A DEFENCE OF THE ARGVMENTES Lately directed to the High Court of Parliament for the Ministers silenced ect against the answer unto them by M. Gabriel Powell All though the late answer of M. Powell to the Arguments in the title mentioned for moment of matter be not such that either any disgrace of the sayd Arguments or of the cause it selfe with any wise and judicious reader neede to be feared thereby or that therefore the said answer should haue reply thereunto yet for their sake that are not so judicious and that neither the answerer himselfe neither any other by our silence may haue any cause to insult and triumph as having wonne some great field and gotten some worthy victory I haue presumed to take upon me the replying thereunto insteed of the author himselfe Heerein notwithstanding the answerer his scoffing at our triobular Pamphlets I will labour as much as I may for brevity that so the Christian reader may the lesse behindred from his other waighty affayres For this cause I nether will reply to the whole answer neither will cause the sayd answer to be wholly reprinted but will onely most breifly collect such things as may most seeme to requyre reply but yet with such faithfullnes that the answerer shall haue no just cause to complayne of the sayd collections as unjust or not agreeyng to his owne words The marginall notes I will reply unto by themselues and that according to the letters prefixed unto them and the rest that he writeth in that order they are by himselfe set downe But before I proceede any further let me admonish M. Powel of one fault in him and common to many other of that side that is to attribute that to all of vs which is done by any one I meane in things which they thinke to be blameable These Arguments were written by one alone yet whatsoever he can by hooke or crooke gather as worthy of rebuke or shew of rebuke that he imputeth to all that craue any favour In good thīgs they deale not so but that which is well sayd or done by one is imputed to one onely so that the rest fare not the better thereby My humble desire therfore is that howsoever thes men deale with vs yet that other would deale otherwise viz. That if there be any thing blamable in the Arguments or in any other one mans writing of our side it may be taken as the fault onely of one and not imputed to all Especially let this be considered when there is no fault at all but onely by surmise and upon uncharitable misconstruyng wresting of a mans words It was the fault of Saule for the supposed offence of Abimelech to kill both him and also all the rest of the Lords Preists It was the sinne of Haman for the suspected pride of Mordecai in not bowyng unto him to hate him all the Iewes and to plot and contriue the ruine of them all So the Apostle noteth it as a fault of the heathen that knew not God and were given over to a reprobate mind to take all things in the evill part Rom. 1.24 Let this therefore be the sinne of such wicked men but let all true Christians that loue and feare the Lord be free therof Now to proceed I will beginne with the preface TOuching the preface there being not much therein which is not afterward mentioned in the rest of the booke I may the more cursorily passe and rune it over The first poynt here to be observed as also in the place of scripture subscribed to the title Gen. 13.8 Is that he calleth vs brethren as if he did so account and regard us Notwithstandidg whether he doe any otherwise or with any other minde so call us then only as Ioab called Amasae his brother with his mouth and yet at the same instant killed him with his hand 2 Sam. 20 9. I leaue it to be judged by his opposition to our petition by his most unchristian vncharitable raylings revilyngs reproches scoffs as also by his most unjust collections as directly contrary to the words much more to the meaning of the author of the said Arguments so likwise to all reason common sense Sharpnes bitternes are the common weapons and principall armour of that side which is an evidence of the badnes of their cause and no lesse testimony of the goodnes of ours For truth and righteousnes can support themselues without any such meanes Notwithstanding in this kind this answerer hath farre exceeded many other yea he may well be acknowledged to haue
he would eat no cheese were this moderat severity What then may be sayd of them that cast out other from the inheritāce of the Lord whose labours God hath blessed to the joye of many an elect soule that only for not doyng that against which they can yeeld a farre better reason from God his will revealed in his word then any man can doe for his not eating of cheese or for any other the like action from the secret instinct of nature G. Powel The author of these arguments is not afrayd to perswade provoke your Honorable Court these are his owne words to intercede with his Majestie that he would compell the Reverend Prelats to surcease their rigorous and cruell dealing The Apostle biddeth vs to provoke one another to loue to good works Heb. 10.24 Therefore why might not the author of these arguments use this word unto the Parliament for so good a worke as in all the said arguments is intended But for the latter words of M. Powel to compell the Reverend Prelats to surcease their rigorous and cruell dealing etc. Where doth the author use them The drifte of all the arguments insinuateth so much If it be but insinuation then all the words before set downe are not the expresse owne words of the author as M. Powell hath said 2 It may be taken for granted that the sayd Prelats are so resolute for mainteyning of their Hierarchie Discipline Ceremonyes and other conformity that they will not yeeld one inche yea not to his Majestie exceept they be compelled Gab. Powel The Prelats haue soberly and temperatly caryed themselues in their proceedings Answ We will all with one accord most thankfully acknowledg this when we shall find it In the meane tyme we do acknowledge it comparatiuly true in respect of their wils and desires For by this answer written by their authority and by divers other tokens it is apparant that they would gladly provoke us to giue them further advantage against vs and also that for these causes they would doe more thē they doe yet I speake not of all I doe unfainedly confess that their is great difference of affections amongst them it respect of us they would I say doe more then they doe If they feared not the people No but if his Majestie his most Honorable counsell would giue them leaue and if they feared not as much indignation from his Highnes as now they seeme to be in grace with him and as much opposition by the honorable Counsell as now perhaps they seeme to haue furtherance by some of them that do not so well understand the cause G. Powel Their obstinat superstion hath worthely made them subject to the proceedings of the Bishops What Superstition And obstinate superstition Answ We were never before to my remembrance charged with superstition much lesse with obstinat superstition but haue alwayes been accounted great adversaryes to superstitiō Yea we hate it with a perfect hatred yea our soules abhorre and detest the least superstition much more obstinat superstition as much as the best of them doe hate it yea much more then some of them it is one of our reasons against some poynts of conformitie that we judge them superstitious How then may we be charged with superstition Yea with obstinat superstition But what if we were superstitious May we therfore be punished cōtrary to law or aboue that that the law requyreth Were not this to ad transgression to transgression and to punish sinne with sinne We may not doe evill that good may come thereof G. Powel The author cryeth out as if the gospell by such proceedings were banished Gods worship prophanely adulterated to the eternall perill of many thousand soules Where is this outcry It is very low and soft Answer in some secret corner or written in very small letters that no man can see or heare of it The author might well cry out that the gospell is in part banished by the suppression of so many able godly faithfull paynefull ministers that Gods worship is in part corrupted both in the doctrine especially sithens this late vehement strivyng by our Prelats for conformitie as shal be afterwards touched and also in the other publike exercises of religion by mixture of humane inventions Ceremonyes and Traditions Yea and that heerby we are in danger to haue the candlesticke removed and the kingdome of Heaven taken from us and given to a Nation more worthy then we except by repentance doing our first works Revel 2.5 Yea making our last works more then our first vers 19. We doe in time prevent this judgment G. Powel The Parliament is able to convince him heerin of malepart Sycophancy and manifest untruth Answer I would such accusers notwithstanding their such threats of the Parliaments kindnes would stand with vs that we might be admitted to stand with them at the barre of the Parliament for triall of this accusation and whether the author of those Arguments or this answerer haue abused that most worthy Senat. G. Powel This author feareth no rebuke of shame for his vnconscionable dealyng Answer Let this unsconscionable dealing be shewed in the author or else let this answerer be ashamed G. Powel This man speaketh frō Cimmerian darknes by concealing his nāe Answer Then also by the same reason many books of the scripture the writers whereof haue concealed their names were written from Cimmerian darknes The like may be sayd of many other most worthy Theologicall bookes without name of any writer Much more may the same be sayd of the booke intitled SCOTTISH GENEVATING ENGLISH SCOTIZING and many other such disgracefull and scornefull books published without name of any author against the desired reformation and all the favorers thereof It is also the severitie of the Prelats that maketh vs the rather to conceale our names If we had as much liberty to publish our books for our selues as every rayler hath to put forth any thing against us Yea as there is for Printing of many profane filthy scurrilous lascivious ungodly bookes authorised by some of them you should quickly see our names The author is bold to offer his writing even to your Honors Gab. Powel to provoke you to supplicat to his excellent Majestie in behalfe of their cause or else to determine it of your selues Answ The author never desired this determynation you speake of by the Parliament as though that would or might be authenticall without his Majesties Royall assēt but onely that his Majesty thereby seeing the equity of the cause and the affection of his people therunto might also be the more easily perswaded to vouchsafe his princly favour towards them therein G. Powel I was cōmaunded by some in authority to peruse and breifely to refute these Arguments which at the first I was unwillyng to take vpon me If you be so ready to be commaunded to write against
great lets and impediments to the sincere ministery of the gospell If you be of that minde and shew the same it wil be no small let and impediment to your owne preferment with the Bishops If you be not then surely this your note is not worth the noting G. Powel g If we professe Christ and maintayne his gospell what doe they plead for then VVherefore haue they denyed it all this while pretending they labour for nothing but the gospell the ministery therof What an untruth is this Where haue we denyed Christ here to be professed Reply and his gospell maynteyned But though we professe Christ maynteyne his gospell yet we plead 1 for the better continuance of the gospell where already it is 2 That so it may the better be where it is not 3 That it may be more glorified and the better florish and fructifie in all places all which thinges cannot be if the proceedinges begunne be not stayd and mitigated 4 May not a kingdome in generall professe Christ and maynteyne his gospell and yet haue some superfluityes which obscure Christ and hinder his gospell as also want some thinges belonging to Christ and his gospell which may make Christ more glorious and further his Gospell G. Powel h Lo now the Disciplinariay ataxie for which the suppliants plead so much is whole Christ Iesus Intollerable blasphemie So cryed the High Preist Reply when Christ confessed himselfe to be the Sonne of the livyng God Math. 27.65 If it had pleased you notwithstanding you might in charitie haue otherwise vnderstood the authors words But let the meanyng be as you take it haue you caught him in any trap Nothing lesse For what else can be gathered but that in the profession of the gospell here in England there are defects and wants That the Church of Christ among vs is in some sort defectiue And although we haue Christ in his word and Sacraments and in other exercises of religion yet we haue not whole Christ in that we haue not all his ordinances And that therefore some thing more ought to be added that Christ may raigne more fully absolutely over us Neither is there any such ataxie in the Discipline by these wordes signified For we desire nothing but the order wherin the Apostle reioyced Colos 2.5 Whereof also we haue the rudera and as it were the stumps yet remaynyng in our Parishionall Church-wardens and sidemen though intituled with other names and wanting that ordination and authority which with the Pastors within there owne Parishes Elders ought to haue This Discipline if we might haue equall hearing we could casily free from all such imputations as wherby it is commonly disgraced by the adversaryes therof with Princes and Nobles Yea we could plainely and truely shew the same to be nothing prejuditiall but very helpfull both to all Royall authority and also to Nobility yea better agreeyng with the one and the other then all other inventions of men for Ecclesiasticall goverment whatsoever Touching the intollerable blasphemie imputed in the end of this note to the author of the Argumēts by way of an exclamation it lyeth upon them that feare not openly to deny Christ Iesus to be law giver and King of his Church How it can be cast upon us for desiryng whole Christ Iesus I meane all his ordinances I can not discerne Further answer to the Fith Argument G. Powel Zeale and courage for defence of Gods truth and Church is commendable but it were rashnes and foole hardines for any to adventure hazard and danger by intermedling in a frivolous quarrell and in a cause not justifiable Reply Now you pay home indeede If Cardinall Wolsey were livyng he could speake no more imperiously For except by a frivolous quarrell and a cause not iustifiable you meane not the cause of the Ministers you speake nothing to the purpose If you meane that as needes you must then doe you not speake to vs poore Ministers alone but also to the Parliament and to all other Noble men or gentlemen that haue intermedled M Powels censure of the Parliament house or shall intermedle in our cause Yea them you doe not cunnyngly but openly playnly charge all such with rashnes and foolehardines If you had been a man that in heart had not cared for the opposition of any yet this speech would scarse haue beseemed your person One of us for halfe so much against the meanest Prelat yea against the basest Chancellor should haue payd full sweetly But your side seeme to haue privilege of speake and writing what you please against any yea against many yea against the High Court of Parliament Yea against whole Churches and kingdoms For the rest if we cannot make our cause good and justifie the same so that all your side shall not be able substantially to answer without scoffing rayling wrangling and sophisticating then let our quarrell be accounted frivolous and our cause not justifiable G. Powel There are great ods betweene these examples proposed and the refractarie ministers case There should be such ods Reply For the author reasoneth not á similibus or paribus from likes or equalls but from the lesse to the greater G. Powel In the tyme of Nehemiah the Iewes by long captivity were in great affliction the walls of Ierusalem broken downe etc. But our Church hath long florished is glorious still and more and more increaseth I will not say your wordes are like to his wordes that boasted saying I am rich and increased with goods Reply Revel 3.17 and haue neede of nothing but this I say that all beyng granted that you say doth not hinder but further the cause The more the Church florisheth the more easie it is to grant that which the Arguments pleade for Ministers also of the word are as necessary for the preserving and increasing of the glorie of Churches as for the procuring therof at the first But alas I would God our Church did so florish as you pretend Indeed it hath many rich mercyes God be blessed for them but he that seeth not what the Church wanteth doth not rightly acknowledge that which it hath Is this the glory of a Church for Prelates to florish and flant it out gallantly and for their men to ruffle it out lustily Nay rather this is the glory of the world and better beseeming the Courts of Princes and houses of Noble men then the calling of orthodox Bishops who should as well in their life as in their doctrine preach humilitie modestie and contempt of the world The more glorious that Prelats are outwardly the lesse glorious for the most part they are inwardly Yea it is to be observed that the more the outward glory of Churchmen as they are called hath increased the more hath true inward glory decayed The more also that the inward and true bewty of the Church hath decayed the more hath the outward state and pompe of