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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
cause_n	put_v	zeal_n	zealous_a	38	3	8.3392	4	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A52063	A vindication of the answer to the humble remonstrance from the unjust imputation of frivolousnesse and falshood Wherein, the cause of liturgy and episcopacy is further debated. By the same Smectymnuus.	Smectymnuus.; Marshall, Stephen, 1594?-1655. aut; Calamy, Edmund, 1600-1666. aut; Young, Thomas, 1587-1655. aut; Newcomen, Matthew, 1610?-1669. aut; Spurstowe, William, 1605?-1666. aut	1654 (1654)	Wing M799; ESTC R217369	134,306	232

lest you should think we flout your modesty with an unbeseeming frumpe which whither our answer be guilty of as you here charge us let the Reader compare the 28 and 29 pages of your Remonstrance and our Answer to those pages and determine The second objection was from that imputation which this truth casts upon all Reformed Churches which want this government this the Remonstrant must needs endevour to satisfie that hee may decline the envie that attends this opinion But what needs the Remonstrant feare this envy Alasse the Reformed Churches are but a poore handfull Rumpantur ilia need the Remonstrant care Yet is it neither his large protestation of his honourable esteeme of those Sister Churches nor his solicitous cleering himselfe from the scandalous censures and disgracefull termes cast upon them by others under whose colours he now militares that will divert this envie unlesse he either desert his opinion or make a more just defence then he hath yet done The Defence is That from the opinion of the Di. right of Episc. no such consequence can be drawn as that those Churches that want Bishops are no Churches Episcopacy though reckoned among matters essential to the Church yet is not of the essence of a Church and this is no contradiction neither If you would have avoided the contradiction you should have expressed your selfe more distinctly knowing that things essentiall are of two sorts either such as are essentiall constitutivè or such as are essentiall consecutivè You had done well here had you declared whether you count Episcopacie essentiall to a Church constitutive or consecutivé if constitutivè then it is necessary to the being of a Church and it must follow where there is no Bishop there can be no Church If essentiall onely consecutivè wee would be glad to learne how those officers which by Divine institution have demandated to them peculiarly a power of ordaining all other officers in the Church without which the Church it selfe cannot be constituted and such a power as that those officers cannot be ordained without their hands should not bee essentiall to the Constitution of a Church or tend onely to the well being not to the being of it Either you must disclaim your own propositions or owne this inference and not think to put it off with telling your Reader It is enough for our friends to hold discipline of the being of a Church you dare not be so zealous If heat in an Episcopall cause may be called zeale you dare be as zealous as any man we know Your friends wee are sure are as zealous in the cause of their Episcopacie as any of ours have been in the defence of discipline Did ever any of our friends in their zeale rise higher then to frame an oath whereby to bind all men to maintaine their discipline You know some of yours have done as much but them wee know you will leave to their owne defence as you doe your learned Bishop of Norwich now he is dead It is work enough for you to defend your selfe and give satisfaction to the questions propounded First we demanded the reason why Popish Priests converted to our Religion are admitted without new ordination when some of our brethren flying in Queen Maries time and having received Ordination in the Reformed Churches were urged at their return to receive it again from our Bishops This shamelesse and partiall practice of our Prelats hee could not deny but frames two such answers of which the second confutes the first and neither second nor first justifies their practice In the first he denies a capability of admittance by our laws and yet in his second he confesseth many to be admitted without any legall exception which how well they consist let the Reader judge The second question was whether that office which by divine Right hath sole power of Ordination and ruling of all other officers in the Church belong not to the being but onely to the glory and perfection of a Church The Remonstrant is so angry at this question that before hee can finde leisure to answer it he must needs give a little vent to his choller Can we tell what these men would have saith he have they a mind to go beyond us in asserting that necessity and essentiall use of Episcopacie which we dare not avow What is that which you dare not avow is it that Episcopacy hath sole power of ordaining and ruling all other Officers in the Church But this wee are sure you will avow That imposition of hands in ordination and confirmation have ever been held so intrinsecall to Episcopacie that I would faine see where it can be shewed that ANY EXTREMITY OF NECESSITY was by the Catholike Church of Christ ever yet acknowledged for a warrant sufficient to diffuse them into other hands Is not this to say that the sole power of ordaining Officers is in the hands of the Bishop And dare not WE avow this now Blessed be they that have taken downe your confidence And where you are witty by the way you tell us we still talke of sole Ordination and sole Iurisdiction we may if we please keep that paire of soles for our next shooes Good Sir wee thanke you for your liberality but wee doubt you either part with them out of fear you shall no longer keep them or they will prove no longer worth the keeping But consider one thing we beseech you if you make this donation not onely in your own name but in the name of the whole Episcopall order you and they may turn Fratres Mendicantes and go bare foot if you part with these paire of soles and what will become of your Quid facit Episcopus quod non facit Presbyter exceptâ ordinatione You doe not contend say you for such a height of propriety c. that in what case soever of extremity and irresistable necessity this should be done onely by Episcopall hands You do not It is well you doe not but did you never meane to affirme it none of you Consider we beseech that forecited place Episcopacie Divine Right part 2. pag. 91. weigh the words and then speake and tell the Authour your judgement Our third question was There being in this mans thoughts the same jus divinum for Bishops that there is for Pastors and Elders whether if those reformed Churches wanted Pastors Elders too they should want nothing of the essence of a Church but onely of the glory and perfection of it The answer saith he is ready which is indeed no answer it is in sum but this that it would be better with them if they had Bishops too But how it would be if they wanted Bishops and Pastors and Elders too of that he saith nothing The Remonstrant had presumed to know so much of the mind of the Reformed Churches as to averre that if they might have their option they would gladly imbrace Episcopall government a foule imputation saith the Remonstrant

triumph over it It is truth not wit wee contend for yet Ridentem dicere verum quis vetat You might have done as wisely to omit the flourish of your wit in scorne of ours as you say wee did to omit those three knowne texts which we omitted because the question betweene us was not whether ruling Elders are an ordinance of God and founded in the word or no But whether ever they had existence in the Christian Church before this present age For the determining of this question being de facto not de ●ure it is more proper to produce the practice of the Churches then texts of Scripture this doth not please him Alpatrons of Layeldership before us would not after the rakings of all the channells of time have forborne the utmost urging of those Testimonies if they had not knowne them so far from being convictive that they are unprooving Is this the man whose chief plea for his divine right is the monument of succeeding ages and Testimony of Antiquity and will he now vouchsafe the search after the footsteps of antiquity no better name Then the raking of the Channell of time had we spoken so much in the vilification of Antiquity it would have beene accounted hatefull and intolerable insolencie in us But our evidences are not proving and convictive Let us put them to the tryall Our testimony from Origen cannot you say but shame us if yet we can blush belike you remember you have so often without just cause put us to the blush you beginne to feare the colour is spent you charge us with willing concealing the Chap. on purpose that we might not be discovered Were this a fault and worthy of blame yet little reason hath the Remonstrant to quarrell with us it is but this one place in which the Remonstrant chargeth us wee are punctuall in our other quotations How-many quotations are there in this defence in which the Remonstrance hath not cited so much as the Book onely thinks it enough to name the Authour But here we are not so culpable as the Remonstrant makes us The translation of Origen which we followed did not distinguish the booke into Chapters No more then the Originall doth Nor other translations with which we have consulted Nor are wee yet so happy as to meete with that edition where the Chapters are distinguished so here is no just cause of suspicion either of fraud or feare For the text it selfe whether your collection or ours be most according to the sence of the Authour let the learned reader judge from the text it selfe which wee heere set downe translated faithfully according to the Originall Videamus an non Christiani magis melius istis populum ad bonam frugem excitent nam Philosophi quidem qui in publico disputant discrimen auditorum adhibent nullum sed quisquis volet adstet licet atque audiat Christiani vero quoad possunt eorum qui ipsos audire cupiunt animos prius explorantes eosdemque privatimerudientes cum videbuntur illi qui auditores sunt futuri priusquam in publicum processerint usque eò profecisse satis ut velint benè vivere tum demum eos introducunt sive admittunt separatim quendem ordinem constituentes eorum qui initiati recens introductique sunt signumque expiationis nondum acceperunt alter autem ordo est eorum qui pro virili studium suum repraesentant non aliud velle se quam quae Christianis recta videntur Apud quos vel supra quos sunt quidam constituti qui in vitam mores advenientium inquirant ut qui flagitiosa perpetrant illos à communi eorum coetu prohibeant qui verò istiusmodi non sunt eos ex animo amplexantes indies reddant meliores Cujusmodi quoque institutum habent in eos qui peccant maximèque si protervè se gerant quos à suo coetu ejiciunt illi qui Celso judice similes sunt iis qui inhonestissimas quasque res in foro ostentant Et Pythagoreorum quidem schola illa gravissima illis qui ab ipsorum philosophia desciverant sepulchra inania conficiebat eosque perinde aestimans ac si demortui planè essent Hi autem quasi pereuntes mortuos Deo qui petulantiae aut gravi cuipiam facinori obstringendos se tradiderunt tanquam mortuos lugent tanquam è mortuis excitatos si non spernendam modo oftenderint resispicentiam longiori temporis spatio quàm qui primo introducti sunt tandem recipiunt neque ad ullum gubernandi munus in Ecclesiâ Dei quae dicitur eligimus eum qui priùs fuerit lapsus postquam ad verbum accesserit c. The sence of this place saith the Remonstrant is this That those which were newly admitted into the Church who by reason of their late acquaintance with such as were left behind them in Pagan superstition might be fit Monitors to know and notifie the condition of such Candidates as did offer to come into the Church were designed to that office of Monitorship Here we desired the Reader to consider first that the scope of the place is to vindicate the Christian assemblies from the imputations unjustly cast upon them by Celsus as if they were a confluence of base and worthlesse people To cleer this hee divides all Christians into two Orders the first were Catechumeni or beginners and first he shews the care they took about them before they were baptized The other order comprehends all such as were baptized whom he describes in these words There is another order of such who according to their ability expresse their endevours to desire nothing but what seems right to Christians which two orders are in antiquity distinguished in Catechumenos Fideles Now that this same alter ordo might be kept to live acording to there profession 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 there were some designed or constituted who should look to the manners of all such as come to them that is to their meetings that they that lived wickedly might be banished their assemblies and heartily embracing such as lived well they might make them better Those persons here spoken of the Remonstrant grants to be lay persons as we terme them and doth not so much as once goe about to affirme them Presbyters Onely the question is who those so constituted were He saith Novices newly added to the Church Secondly of whome they had the inspection hee saith onely of such as were comming out of paganisme and offered themselves to be added to their Assemblies Thirdly what their power was hee saith onely to notifie the lives of such to be as it were Monitores and no more For the two first we conceive it impossible for him to shew in all antiquity that ever the Church did appoint Novices over Novices to be overseers of their manners and much more impossible to collect it from this place since Origen speaks indefinitely of any of this order to