the same were particularly enacted by the Authority of Parliament And that the Lord Major Aldermen and Commons in Common-Councell may adde to or repeale the said Ordinances from time to time as they shall see cause That such other Propositions as shall be made for the City for their farther safety welfare and Government and shall be approved of by both Houses of Parliament may be granted and confirmed by Act of Parliament Vpon consideration of which Propositions His Majesty sent the Duke of Richmond and the Earle of Southampton with this Message of the 13th of December HIs Majesty hath seriously considered your Propositions II. and findes it very difficult in respect they import so great an alteration in Government both in Church and State to returne a particular and positive answer before a full debâ—te wherein thosâ— Propositions and all the necessary Explanations and reasons for assenting dissenting or qualifying and all inconveniences and mischiefes which may ensue and cannot otherwise be so well foreseen may be discussed and weighed His Majesty therefore proposeth and desireth as the best expedient for Peace That you will appoynt such number of Persons as you shall think fit to Treat with the like number of Persons to be appoynted by His Majesty upon the said Propositions and such other things as shall be proposed by His Majesty for the preservation and defence of the Protestâ—nt Religion with due regard to the ease of tender Consciences as His Majesty hath often offered The Rights of the Crowne The Liberty and Property of the Subject and the Priviledges of Parliament And upon the whole matter to conclude a happy and blessed Peace Vnto which Message this Answer of the 27th of December was returned to His Majesty May it please your Most Excellent Majesty WEE Your Majesties humble and Loyall Subjects of both Kingdomes have considered of Your Maiesties Message III. of the 13. of December 1644. sent by the Duke of Richmond and the Earle of Southampton directed to the Lords and Commons assembled in the Parliament of England at Westminster and to the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland now at London And doe in all humblenesse returne this Answer That we doe consent there be a Treaty for a safe and well grounded Peace But find that it will require some time to resolve concerning the Instructions and manner of that Treaty And therefore that Your Majesty might not be held in suspence touching our readinesse to make use of any opportunity for attayning such a blessed and happy Peace in all Your Majesties Dominions We would not stay Your Majesties Messengers till we did resolve upon all thâ—se particulars which we will take into our serious consideration and present our humble desires to Your Majesty with all convenient speed Westminster the 20 â—h of Decemb. 1644. Gray of Wark Speaker of the House of Peeres pro tempore Signed in the name and by warrand of the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland LOWDON William Lenthall Speaker of the Commons House Assembled in Parliament And afterwards upon the 18th of January following Sir Peter Killigrew brought this farther Answer to His Majesty May it please Your Most Excellent Majesty WEE Your Majesties humble and Loyall Subjects the IV. Lords and Commons assembled in the Parliament of England at Westminster and the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland do make our further answer to Your Majesties Message of the 13th of December last 1644. Concerning a Treaty for Peace as followeth We do consent that there be a Treaty for a safe and well grounded Peace between your Majesty and your humble and Loyall Subjects assembled in the Parliaments of both Kingdomes And for the present have appoynted Algernon Earle of Northumberland Philip Earle of Pembrook Mountgomery William Earle of Salisbury Bâ—sill Earle of Denbigh Thomas Lord Viscount Wenman Denzill Hollis William Pierrepoint Sir Henry Vane Junior Oliver St Iohn Bulstrode Whitlock Iohn Crew Edmund Prideaux for the Lords and Commons assembled in the Parliament of England at Westminster And Iohn Earle of Lowdon Lord Chancellor of Scotland Archibald Marquisse of Argyle Iohn Lord Maitland Iohn Lord Balmerino Sir Archibald Iohnston Sir Charles Erskin George Dundas Sir Iohn Smith M r Hugh Kennedy and M r Robert Barclay for the Estates of the Parliament of Scotland together with Master Alexander Henderson upon the Propositions concerning Religion who or any Ten of them there being alwayes some of the Parliaments of both Kingdomes are appointed and authorized to meet at Vâ—bridge on what day Your Majesty shall be pleased to set downe before the last day of this present Ianuary with such Persons as Your Majesty shall appoint under Your Signe Manuall for that purpose And the number of the persons to Treat not to exceed seventeen on either part unlesse the persons named for the Estates of the Parliament of Scotland now not here or any of them shall come and then Your Maiesty may have the like number if you please There to Treat upon the Matters conteined in the Propositions we lately sent unto Your Majesty according to such Instructions as shall be given unto them And the Propositions for Religion the Militia and for Ireland to be first Treated on and agreed and the time for the Treaty upon the said Propositions for Religion the Militia and for Ireland not to exceed Twenty dayes and for the things mentioned in Your Message to be propounded by Your Maiesty when the Persons sent by Your Maiesty shall communicate the same to the Committees appointed by us as aforesaid We have directed them to send the same to us That they may receive our Instructions what to doe therein And to the end that the Persons that are to be sent from Your Majesty and from us with their retinue not exceeding the number of one Hundred and Eight on either part may repaire to Vxbridge stay there and returne at their pleasure without interruption That mutuall safe Conducts be granted to the said Persons according to the severall Lists of their Names Signed by Order of the Lords and Commons Assembled in the Parliament of England as Westminster Signed in the name and by warrant of the Commissioners of the Kingdome of Scotland LOWDON Gray of Wark Speaker of the House of Peeres pro tempore William Lenthall Speaker of the Commons House in the Parliament of England Whereunto His Majesty returned an Answer inclosed in a Letter from Prince Rupert to the Earle of Essex dated the 21 of January which Letter and Answer were as followeth The Letter My Lord I Am commanded by His Majesty to returne this His answer V. Together with this inclosed in a Letter from Prince Rupert to the Earle of Essex His Majestie sent a safe Conduct for their Commissioners and their retinue to the Message lately sent Him from the Lords and Commons assembled in the Parliament of England at Westminster and the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland by Sir Peter Killigrew I
alterations that are desired since in an Argument of the greatest weight and highest importance we cannot possibly give a present Iudgement of any part till we have a prospect of the whole But since your Lordships doe not yet think it time to let us have a sight of the rest but first desire our Answer to the * See before N o 31. paper delivered yesterday which contains many particulars of which we never heard before We shall apply our selves to understand the things proposed by you in such manner as we may returne your Lordships a speedy answere And to that purpose must desire your Lordships information in some particulars which are comprized in your Lordships paper And when your Lordships consider that the * The Directoâ—y which was delivered in is of great length the Covenant delivered with it both now Printed and obvious are therefore forborne to be inserted here or in the Appendix Directory for Worship being so long was delivered to us but yesterday That the Covenant the Articles of the Treaty of Edinburgh the Declaration of both Kingdomes which â—re comprehended within the first Proposition were delivered to us but this day and therefore we could returne no Answer concerning the Bill for abolishing Arch-Bishops and Bishops which is proposed to be passed according to the third Proposition in which the said Articles and Declarations are comprehended and that the Ordinances for the Sitting of the Assembly are not yet delivered unto us We are confident your Lordships will not think us negligent in making as good a progresse in the Treaty upon Religion as is in our Power which we shall indeavour to advance with all diligence and the best of our understanding Afterwards the same first of February the * See them in the Appendix n o 5 6. Ordinances for the Assembly of Divines were delivered in After some debate touching the nature of the Church Government intended by the Paper annexed to the first Paper upon the subject of Religion which are here before set downe The Kings Commissioners delivered in this following Paper 1. Feb. THe information we desire from your Lordships for the XXXIX present is Whether by the words in the first of those Propositions in your Lordships paper annexed the respective bounds of their dwellings you intend the severall bounds of their dwelling houses or the bounds of Parishes or whether you intend an alteration of the bounds of Parishes In the second Proposition what other Church-Officers your Lordships intend shall joyne with the Ministers in the Government of the Church and what jurisdiction they shall exercise in Order to that Government and from whom they shall derive it and in what degree be subordinate to the power from whom they derive it And what you intend by Presbyteriall Government in your third Proposition In the fourth Proposition what your Lordships intend by Congregationall Classicall and Synodicall Assemblies How Synodicall Assemblies â—rovinciall and Nationall shall be constituted as to persons and causes and what shall be the bounds and limits of their Iurisdiction and from whom the severall Iurisdictions above mentioned shall be derived To these particulars we would be glad iâ— your Lordships think it fit to receive satisfaction by debate where Questions may be asked and replyes made before any answer be returned in writing which may aske much time and be lesse satisfactory but we referre the way to your Lordships Their Answer 1. Feb. VVEE cannot but be sensible of the great losse of time occasioned XL. by your Lordships Questions for information in your last Paper and shall have small hopes of good successe in this Treaty having these two daies made so little progresse unlesse your Lordships be pleased to give us full answers to our demands concerning Religion Yet to give all satisfaction with as little expence of time as may be we are ready by present conference to cleer the Questions in your Paper The King's Commissioners Reply in two severall Papers next following 2. Feb. VVEE conceive there was no cause your Lordships XLI should apprehend any losse of time occasioned by our Questions for that your Propositions concerning Religion were not delivered to us till Friday last And the Directory then delivered with them so long that the reading of it spent the residue of that day and diverse other Papers to which the Propositions referred without which we could not consider them were not deliverd us before yesterday and some of them not till after the Paper which imputes a delay to us and your Lordships having propounded only generall heads of a Presbyteriall government without any particular Modell of it which in severall Reformed Churches as we are informed is various both in names and Powers it was necessary to understand the particular expressions in your paper the alteration desired being so great and being proposed to be enacted which will require His Majesties consent whom we ought to satisfy having so great a trust reposed in us And we desire your Lordships to consider how impossible it hath been for us to give your Lordships in lesse then two daies a full answer which in your last Paper you require to what you propose which is in effect to consent to the utter abolishing of that Government Discipline and publique Forme of the Worship of God which hath been practized and established by Law here ever since the Reformation And which we well understand and the Alteration of which in the manner proposed takes away many things in the Civill Government and provides no remedy for the inconveniences which may happen thereby And to consent to the Alienation of the Lands of the Church by which for ought appears besides infinite other considerations so many Persons may be put to begge their bread to oblige His Majesty and all His Subjects to the taking a new Oath or Covenant and to receive and consent to a new Government we do not nor without information cannot understand And which in truth appears to us by your Lordships Propositions not to be yet agreed upon in the particulars And your Lordships having declared to us that you have other things to propose to us concerning Religion which you doe not yet think it fit time to acquaint us withall Notwithstanding all which difficulties we shall proceed with all possible expedition and desire your Lordships will not object delayes to us till we give you just occasion February 2. THat we may make a right use of the Information your XLII Lordships were pleased yesterday to afford us in Debate upon the Questions proposed by us concerning the Propositions in your Lordships paper annexed for the future Governement of the Church and so have some understanding of that Governement intended by your Lordships in place of that you propose to be abolished we desire to receive your Lordships answer in writing whether these short Collections upon the Debate yesterday be the Summe of your Lordships Resolutions or Informations
your Lordships doe not expect or intenâ— or at least are so doubtfull that the cleare sense thereof is not evident to all understandings As by the literall sense of your Propositions neither the Sheriffes of Counties or Iustices of Peace and other legall Ministers may raise Forces by the Posse Comitatus or otherwise to suppresse Riots and remove forcible Entries or to performe the other necessary duties of their places without being liable to the interpretation of the Commissioners for the Militia that such Forces are raised or Actions done for the disturbance of the publique Peace As likewise all Civill Actions and differences may be comprehended within those Propositions to be tryed before the said Commissioners neither of which we beleeve your Lordships intend should be And therefore we have in our Answers proposed what we thought would be agreeable to the matter and end of those Propositions that iâ— a reasonable and full security for the observation of the Articles of the Treaty which according to what we have offered cannot be broken on either part without evident prejudice and danger to that part which shall endeavour the breaking thereof And that the memory of these unhappy distractions may be forgotten as soon as may be that the tiâ—e of this settlement may be limited to three yeares which by the blessing of God will be sufficient to beget a good understanding between His Majesty and all His People And that the fifteenth Proposition and all the other parts of your Lordships Propositions being not at all necessary to the present union and Reconciliation may be deferred till after the Peace established to be setled by Hiâ— Majesty and the two Houses of Parliament in England and His Majesty and the Estates of the Parliament in Scotland respectively But if your Lordship shall not think this way of nomination of Persons to be Commissioners or the other proposed likewise by us in our Paper of the 6th of February for the agreement of the Commissioners between your Lordships and us to be equall We shall gladly receive any more equall way from your Lordships since it is apparant that that already proposed by your Lordships and which you insist upon in Tâ—rminis is not fit to be consented to for the quiet and Peace of the Kingdom presuming that you will thinke the security ought to be mutuall as the Feares and Iealousies are mutuall And we are most confident that His Majesty so much desires to give all reasonable and fit security on his part that the agreement and Peace to be now made shall be inviolably observed That as he will name no man for this great Trust against whom there can be just exception if the persons are named equally between him and you so if the whole nomination were left to Him He would pitch only upon such as both Kingdoms mighâ— have great cause to confide in and we believe might give full satisfaction to your Lordships And therefore we hope your Lordships will believe that the reason we consent not to your Propositions is because we conceive them destructive to the end for which they are proposed Iustice Peace and Vnity and not that we deny to consent to any reasonable security for observance of the agreement to be made of which we will alwaies be most tender with regard to all persons concerned This was the last paper delivered in the last of the six daies touching the Militia but that being taken up againe in some part of the two last daies of the Treaty as those of Religion and Ireland also were their Commissioners upon their breaking up of the Treaty about two of the clock in the morning after the 22th of February gave in a Paper intended for an Answer to this Paper which neverthelesse relates to the Paper here next following delivered by them the 21. of February mentioning a limitation of time for seaven yeares for that cause is herein set downe after that Paper and as their last of that subject and the Papers upon that Subject delivered in the mean time in the two last daies are these following Their Paper 21. Febr. WHereas your Lordships have in severall Papers much insisted CXXXI that the Commissioners mentioned in the 17th Proposition should be for a limited time that your Lordships might better give a full Answer to our desires concerning the Militia though we conceive the Reasons we have given might have satisfied your Lordships for the time to be unlimited yet to manifest our earnest desires of Peace we propose to your Lordships the time for the said Commissioners to be for seaven years from the time of the passing the Act for the Militia And that after the expiration of such terme the Militia of the Kingdom to be setled and exercised in such manner as shall be agreed upon by His Majesty and the two Houses of the Parliament of England and by His Majesty and the Estates of the Parliament of Scotland respectively and not otherwise At the same time the Scotch Commissioners from themselves a part delivered in this Paper signed by their own Secretary only all the other Papers being signed by two Secretaries for the English and Scotch Commissioners 21. February VVE the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland do CXXXII declare that our consent to the Paper given in this day concerning the limitation of the power of the Militia in Commissioners according to the 17th Proposition to continue for seaven yeares from the time of the passing of the Act for the Militia and after the expiration of that terme to be setled in such manner as shall be agreed upon by His Majesty and the two Houses of the Parliament of England And by His Majesty and the Estates of the Parliament of Scotland respectively and not otherwise is to be understood as followeth That we will represent the same to the Estates of the Parliament of Scotland or their Committees to which we are confident they will assent as that which is conceived to conduce to a happy agreement and setling of a firme and blessed Peace The King's Commissioners Answer 22. February VVE have hitherto conceived that this Treaty hath CXXXIII been betwixt us that are appoynted Commissioners by His Majesty and your Lordships the Commissioners from the two Houses of the Parliament of England and your Lordships the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland joyntly and not severally But finding that your Lordships the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland have delivered to us a distinct Paper signed only by your Secretary of the 20th of Febr. concerning the Militia and that not concurring with the other joynt Paper delivered and subscribed by both your Secretaries upon that Subject that day We desire to know whether the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland have a negative voyce or have not power to concludeâ— without farther power to be granted from the Estates of the Parliament of Scotland and expect in this Treaty to be severally Treated with
Offered if any other doubts yet remaine by conference to cleare them which still we are ready to doe And we have heard nothing just or reasonable for that Cessation It will be made evident that the necessities which by your Lordships were made excuses for the Cessation were created on purpose to colour the same and we are compelled by your Lordships paper to let you know that the Committees of Parliament sent into Ireland to endeavour to supply their necessities were discountenanced by the principall instruments for that Cessation and when they had taken up 2000l upon their personall security for the Army there they were presently after commanded from the Councell by a Letter brought thither from His Majesty by the Lord Ormonds Secretary And when the Officers of the Army were contented to subscribe for Land in satisfaction of their Arreares it was declared from His Majesty that He disapproved of such subscriptions whereby that course was diverted And we doe affirme that what ever summes of money raised for Ireland were made use of by both Houses of Parliament were fully satisfied with advantage and as we are informed before the Bill mentioned in our former paper was refused by His Majesty And for the Regiments of Horse and Foot mentioned by your Lordships to be raised for Ireland and imployed otherwise by the Houses of Parliament It is true that Forces were so designed and when the Money Armes and other Provisions were all ready and nothing wanting but a Commission from His Majesty for the Lord Wharton who was to Command them the same could not be obtained which was the cause those Forces did not goe thither and when twelve Shipps and six Pinnaces were prepared with 1000 or more land Forces for the service of Ireland and nothing desired but a Commission from His Majesty the Shipps lying ready and staying for the same were three weeks together at 300l a day charge yet the same was denyed though often desired And where your Lordships seem to imply that the provisions seized by His Maiesties Forces were going for Coventrey it was made known to His Maiesty that the same were for Ireland And your Lordships must needs conceive that the papers you delivered to us being but Extracts and for that you deny us so to compare them with the Originalls as to have the names of the Persons by whom they were Written it is altogether unreasonable for us to give any credit to them it being manifest by this and our former papers and debates that the Cessation with the Rebels in Ireland is both unjust and unlawfull We therefore insist on our demands concerning Ireland as apparently good for His Maiesties Subjects there and for reducing that Kingdom to His Maiesties Obedience Before His Maiesties Commissioners gave answer to this last paper they being also to answer the rest of the demands concerning Ireland for their necessary information touching some doubts that did arise upon those demands and the Articles of the Treaty of the 6th of August concerning Ireland and Ordinances delivered with them the Kings Commissioners gave in these severall papers The King's Commissioners first Paper 19. February IN the eight Article of the Treaty for the comming of the CL. Scots Army into England dated 29. Nov. 1643. at Edenbourgh delivered to us by your Lordships among the papers for Ireland and desired by the 12th Proposition to be confirmed by Act of Parliament It is agreed that no Cessation nor any Pacification or agreement for Peace whatsoever shall be made by either Kingdome without the mutuall advice and consent of both Kingdomes or the Committees in that behalfe appoynted who are to have full power for the same in case the Houses of the Parliament of England or the Parliament or Convention of Estates of Scotland shall not sit We desire to know whether that Article extend to any Cessation Pacification or Agreement in Ireland The Answer 19. Febr. WE did in answer to your Lordships Paper of the first of CLI February upon the Propositions concerning Religion deliver the Treaty of the 29th of November 1643. mentioned by your Lordships and not among the Papers for Ireland to which it hath no relation The King's Commissioners Reply 20. February YOur Lordships did deliver the Treaty of the 29th of November CLII. 1642. to us with the Papers concerning Ireland and on the 7th day of this instant February and not upon the first of February upon the Propositions concerning Religion Their Answer 20. Feb. WHen your Lordships peruse your Papers you will rest CLIII satisfied with our Answer of the 19th of this instant to your first Paper that day given to us for it will appeare by your Lordships 3d Paper of the first of February and our Paper given to your Lordships in answer of it that the Treaty of the date at Edenbourgh 29 Novemb. 1643. Was delivered to your Lordships on the first of February upon the Proposition of Religion and not upon the 3d of February with the Papers concerning Ireland The Article of the Treaty of the 29. of November 1643. which occasioned these Papers being by their Papers thus acknowledged not to concerne Ireland and so not pertinent to that subject the Kings Commissioners insisted no farther The King's Commissioners second Paper 19. February BY the 13th Proposition it is demanded that an Act be CLIV. passed to settle the prosecution of the Warre of Ireland in both Houses of Parliament of England to be managed by the joynt advices of both Kingdoms We desire to know Whether if the two Kingdoms shall not agree in their advice touching that Warre each have a Negative voyce or whether the Scots Commander in chiefe of the Forces in Ireland may manage that Warre in such case according to his own discretion Their Answer 19. Febr. IN answer to your Lordships second paper the prosecution of CLV the Warre of Ireland is to be setled in the two Houses of the Parliament of England but is to be managed by a joynt Committee of both Kingdoms wherein the Committee of each Kingdom hath a Negative voyce but in case of disagreement the Houses of Parliament of England may prosecute the Warre as they shall think fit observing the Treaty of the sixth of August 1642. between the two Houses and the Estates of the Parliament of Scotland and the Ordinance of the 11th of April 1644. delivered to your Lordships formerly The King's Commissioners third paper 19. February BY the 20th Proposition in the Intervals of Parliament the CLVI Commissioners for the Militia have power to nominate the Lord Deputy of Ireland and other Officers aâ—d Judges there We desire to know whether that power be limited to the Commissioners of both Kingdoms or only to the Commissioners for England and whether in such cases the Commissioners in Scotland shall vote as single persons Their Answer 19. Feb. THe power of the Commissioners in the Intervals of Parliament CLVII to nominate the Lord Deputy
preservation of His Maiesties Protestant Subiects there we being very willing to concurre with your Lordships in any iust and honourable way for the good and settlement of that miserable Kingdome And together with this last the King's Commissioners delivered in this other Paper 20. February HAving given your Lordships cleare Reasons why the CLXXII Cessation which hath been made in Ireland is not in reason or â—ustice to be made voyd and that the making voyd thereof if the same might be done is not or cannot be for the benefit or advantage of His Maiesties Protestant Subiects in that Kingdome so long as the unhappy Warres in this Kingdome continue To the other part of your Lordships first Paper concerning Ireland for the prosecution of the Warre there to be setled in both Houses of the Parliament of England to be managed by the ioynt advice of both Kingdomes and His Maiesty to assist we say That it appeares by the other Papers delivered to us by your Lordships as the Articles of the Treaty of the sixth of August and the Ordinances of the eleventh of April and ninth of March and otherwise That the intent is that that Warre shall be managed by a joynt Committee of both Kingdomes and that the Committee of each Kingdome shall have a Negative voyce and consequently it is very probable that upon difference of Opinion between them that Warre may stand still or to the utter ruine of His Maiesties good Subjects there be absolutely dissolv'd For whereas your Lordships say That in case of such disagreement the Houâ—es of the Parliament of England may prosecute the War as they shall think fit observing the Treaty of the sixth of August 1642. and the Ordinance of the 11th of April your Lordships well know that by that Treaty and that Ordinance the two Houses of the Parliament of England alone cannot prosecute that Warre that Ordinance of the 11 of April expresly making the Earle of Leven the Scots Generall Commander in cheife of all Forces in that Kingdom both Brittish and Scottish without any reference unto His Majestie or His Lievtenant of that Kingdome and diâ—ecting that the Warre shall be managed by the Committee of both Kingdoms without any other reference to the two Houses of the Parliament of England and therefore we cannot consent that such an Act of Parliament be passed for the confirmation of that Treaty or the Ordinance of the 11th of April as your Lordships propose by reason that thereby all His Majesties authority would be wholly taken away in that Kingdom And in truth that whole Kingdom be thereby delivered into the hands of His Maiesties Subiects of Scotland which we conceive is neither just prudent or honourable to be done And we are of opinion that it is not agreeable to His Majesties honour or the justice and protecttion which He owes to His Subiects of His Kingdom of Ireland to put the nomination of His Lievtenant and Iudges of that Kingdom out of Him selfe and to committ the whole power of that Kingdom to others and to binde Himselfe to passe all such Acts of Parliament as any time hereafter shall be presented to Him for raising of Moneys and other things necessary for the prosecution of the War in that Kingdom which your Lordships say in your paper the 9th of this instant you intend by those words His Maiestie to assist in your first paper And we conceive it cannot be expected that His Maiestie should consent to an Act of Parliament for prosecution of the War in Ireland to be managed by the advice of the Houses of Parliament here and the Estates of the Parliament of Scotland so long as the War in this Kingdom shall continue For these and many other reasons we conceive it doth appâ—aâ—e to your Lordships that the Propositions as they are delivered to us by your Lordships are by no meanes fit to be consented to and therefore we desire your Lordships to make other Propositions to us which may be for the preservation and releif of His Majesties Protestant Subjects there and for the settlement of that Kingdom in which we shall very readily concurr and we shall be very willing that the businesse of that Kingdom shall after a Peace setled in this be taken into consideration and ordered as His Maiestie and both Houses of Parliament here shall think fit Their Answers to these two Papers Their Paper 20. Feb. VVE expected that your Lordships would have bin fully satisfied CLXXIII by what we have alleadged against His Majesties power to make the Cessation with the Rebells in Ireland and wâ— cannot find those important reasons which your Lordships mentioned to have induced His Majesty so to do or that thereby His Majesties Protestant Subiects there have bin preserved or subsisted but we have made it evident that this Cessation tended to the utter destruction of the Protestants in that Kingdom as we conceived was designed by those who advised His Majesty thereunto and we observe your Lordships urge that this Cessation was the onely meanes for the subsistance of the Protestants there when it cannot be denyed but that very many of the Protestants in Vlster Munster Connaught have yet subsisted although they have refused to submit to the Cessation opposed the same as the meanes intended for their ruine and we do affirme unto your Lordships that the 2 Houses of Parliament have bin so far from failing to supply His Majesties good Subjects in that Kingdom that although His Majesties Forces have as much as lay in their power endeavoured to prevent the same and have taken to themselves that which was provided for those whom your Lordships mention to have bin in so great want and extremity yâ—t the two Houses not discouraged thereby have constantly sent great proportions of all necessary supplyes unto the Protestants there whereby they have subsisted and have very lately sent thither and have already provided to be speedily sent after in Money Victuals Clothes Ammunition and other necessaries to the value of seavenscore thousand pounds And they have not desired any other provision from His Majestie but what he was well able to afford herein only His Assistance and consent in joyning with His two Houses of Parliament for the better â—nabling them in the prosecution of that Warre and we are so far from apprehending any impossibility of reducing that Kingdom dureing the unhappy Distractions here that although many of the Forces provided by the two Houses for that end were diverted and imployed against the Parliament to the increasing of our distractions yet the Protestants in Ireland have subsisted and do still subsist and we have just cause cause to beleive that if this Cessation had not bin obteyned by the Rebels and that in the time of their greatest wants that these Forces had not bin withdrawn they might in probability have subdued those bloody Rebels and finished the War in that Kingdome For the pretended necessities offered as grounds of this
Generall of the Scots that they shall be well paid the Arreares to the Armies in both Kingdomes before they quit their Interest in Ireland If we shall allow Provisions thus imployed to be for the preservation of the English Protestants in Ireland We may believe they have repaid the 100000l taken up of the Adventurers money and yet thus to resatisfie this money admitting it be currant satisfaction for the debt can be no satisfaction or excuse for the former diversion But since they cannot excuse themselves for this diversion of the Adventurers money nor of the other moneys raised for Ireland nor of the imploying the forces raised for that Kingdom under the Command of the Lord Wharton against us at Edge-Hill which they deny not They fall to recriminate Vs. They say They have mentioned particulars of provisions for Ireland besides those few clothes taken neere Coventry which being formerly answered by Our Commissioners they do not againe urge asserted to be seised not without Our owne knowledge and directions as they were informed This they had formerly alledged and our Commissioners had answered as we do now that they have instanced no particulars at all of any such provisions seised And whereas they say that Out forbearance to seise some provisions which Our Commissioners alleadged in our greatest wants we forbore to take though they lay in Magazines within Our owne Quarters but took order to send away into Ireland was no excuse for seising others they misapply that to be an excuse which was alleadged as an evidence that We seised none since we might in Our great want have seised those if we had been minded to have seised any They say again the service of that Kingdom was much prejudiced by denying the Lord Wharton's Commission of which they have not received satisfaction To this it hath been already answered that those Forces were raised for him before any Commission demanded from us and that the Commission for him proposed to us was to have been independant of the Lievtenant of that Kingdom Causes though not satisfactory to them yet sufficient in themselves to justifie Our reâ—usall But besides these it is apparent the Army which was brought down against Vs was their raising that the Lord Wharton was one of the most active in it and We had cause to be confident nor did he faile us therein that what Forces he should raise for Ireland he would imploy against us in England neither did that service depend upon the Lord Wharton other able Officers were appointed over those Forces whom if they had as much affected that service as the Person of the Lord Wharton they might have trusted with the Transport of them to Ireland where others of more experience and fitter for Conduct then the Lord Wharton might have taken the charge of them They say further That it was one end for which the Cessation was made that the Forces might be brought hither to Vs out of Ireland and imployed against the two Houses The bleeding necessities of the poore English there which have been mentioned and whereof they cannot but be convinced will best speak the cause of that Cessation and the fight of those Souldiers halfe starved when they came over having neither Clothes to their Backs nor so much as Shooes to their Feet nor any pay to provide either will witnesse the necessity of bringing them over when there was no subsistance for them in Ireland nor use for them there during the Cessation And for making use of them here how can they quarrell at Our imploying Our owne English Souldiers who should otherwise have disbanded when they make use of an Army of Scots against Vs. They have bin told that they brought over out of Ireland the Earle of Leven their Generall and diverse Scottish Officers which they deny not and that before the English Forces brought over they attempted the bringing once the Scottish Forces in Ireland as likewise diverse English Officers there into this Kingdom to which all the answer given is that the Scottish Forces which came over were not sent for Which as it denies not what is objected so neither can it excuse their not sending them back to the service of Ireland and imploying them here in an unnaturall Rebellion against Vs. But whatsoever their owne acts or failings have bin in this businesse of Ireland though apparently the necessities which caused the Cessation were occasioned by the two Houses yet rather then they shall be guilty of the blame and neglect therein Our people must be made to beleive that either there were no such necessities or when that is so apparent then that those necessities were designed and contrived by a Popish and Prelaticall party prevalent with Vs and the supplyes denyed and stopped by Our Selfe and so that it is reasonable for them to presse and insist as they do with much fervour in their last Paper concerning Ireland upon their demands for the setling of the prosecution of the War in themselves or the Scots excluding Vs and that there shall be no further Cessation or Peace made there though the War should continue here to have the nomination of the Leivtenant and all the great Officers there and to have Vs bound up to assent to whatsoever acts they shall propose for moneys or other necessaries for the prosecution of that War and if We agree not to these Propositions We are like to be charged with countenancing of that Bloudy Rebellion And therefore though the unreasonablenesse of those Propositions hath been fully laid open by Our Commissioners â—n their Paper yet because this of theirs is framed in answer to those and the fervency and fluency of their expressions may make impressions on those who doe not warily weigh the matter We shall examine what new inforcements they bring to make good those demands The prosecution of the Warre there though it be demanded generally in the 13th Proposition to be setled in both Houses of the Parliament of England to be managed by the joynt advice of both Kingdoms yet according to their 17th Proposition it is to be ordered according to the Ordinance of the 11th of April 1644. which is also proposed to be enacted By that Ordinance the Scottish Generall Leven is to command all the Forces in Ireland both English and Scottish and that Warre is to be managed by a joynt Committee to be named by the two Houses of England and the Estates of the Parliament of Scotland And the Committees of each Kingdom is to have a negative voyce They insisting to have the prosecution of the War thus setled Our Commissioners answered That this was in effect to deliver the Kingdom of Ireland into the hands of Our Subjects of Scotland and neither agreeable to the rules of honour or prudence That it was unreasonable if the War continued here that We by Our consent to Act of Parliament for the manageing of that War and raising moneys for that purpose should put so great power into