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A09292 A defence of that which hath bin written in the questions of the ignorant ministerie, and the communicating with them. By Iohn Penri Penry, John, 1559-1593. 1588 (1588) STC 19604; ESTC S101169 21,857 64

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shal appear that they saw many things but kept them not I pray you confer the places and it can neuer be prooued that any of them were so blinde as they could not declare by preachinge the generall vse of the sacrifices and ceremonies Their wants might be many but not like the insufficiency of our readers Beit they were as insufficient yet their ministery might be allowable For Vnfitnes to teach made not a nullitie of the Leuiticall priests office Because 1 it was sufficient to make him a lawfull though not a good priest Nom. 3.10 Leuit. 8. Exo. 29. for him to be of the line of Aron 2 there was no commandemēt concerning the tryall of his fitnes to teach 3 It is not mentioned that any were put from the pristhood for want of this ability wheras the dout whether they were the sonnes of Aaron Ezra 2.63 and their idolatry 2. Chron. bereaued them thereof Act. 21.26 4 the example of Paule confirmeth this who communicated since his conuersion with those prists that wer as vnlearned as euer anye whiche he woulde not haue done if inability to teach had made them no priests Nowe therefore M. Some to make your argument from the Leuiticall priesthood to bee forcible For your vnpreching ministers you must proue that either our readers ministery is a Leuiticall ministery that the continuance therof is vnder the new couenāt or shew that the corrupt aprobation for so I name the best outwarde calling they can haue of the Churche is as forcible to make thē ministers as was the ordinaunce of God to make the sons of Aaron sacrificing at Ierusalem to be priests Now That the corrupt allovvance of the Church cannot make our readers to be substanciall ministers For so all men and wemen without or within the Church might be capable of the ministery because all may be capable of this outward alowāce 2 and perticularly a man not furnished with naturall capacity 3 a man that could not read though he wanted also the gift of interpretation for suche a one might recite the liturgie without the booke 4 the Churche might make a man minister against his will though he should neuer consent thervnto And this is the willingnes that I meane when I say that the inward caling is contained in the sufficiency of gifts willingnes to practize which willingnes I gather vpon the wordes Epith mei and oregetai vsed of the A postle Your reason therfore from the malicious Philippian ministers toucheth not the question 1. Tim. 3.1 Thus Caiphas with his crue of vnworthye and monstrous priests who within a fewe pages in your booke haue impudently so often troubled the reader is answered And I thinke it a great iudgment of God that the ornaments of our English and welch ministery for the most part consisteth in the deformitie of suche lothsome spots M.D. Some page 32. They of whose magistracie there is a nullitye before God though they haue an outwarde calling ought not to bee accounted magystrates I.P. You demand what I thinke of this proposition Surely my iudgement is that it is altogether without sence and ouerthroweth it self For it is as if you said he of whose fayth there is a nullitye before God though he be assured of his saluation is not to be accounted a faythful mā Why to be assured of saluation to haue a nullitie of fayth before God cannot stand together No more can the outward calling of the magistracy stand with the nullity thereof For the outwarde calling maketh a substantiall magistrate There be three essentiall differences betvveene an euill magistrate and a reading minister 1 The outwarde calling of an euill magistrate maketh him a substantial magistrate so cannot the outward alowance of readers make them to be ministers 2 The magistracie of an euill magistrate may be allowable before God so cannot the ministery of readers 3 Men may bee assured to receiue that accordinge to the ordinaunce of God substantially at the handes of an euill magistrate which concerneth them to haue from him so can they not of a bare reader For there is no man that can assure himselfe to be pertaker of a substantiall sacrament at the hands of such and preache they cannot I haue handled this poynte of the magistracie in my former booke from page 47. to 51. But M. Some where is that reason which you could presse so far is this it they of whose magistracie there is a nullity before God ought not to be accounted magistrates I say your proposition is true assume what you wil you know what maner of nullity I meane My reason concluding the vnlawfulnes of communicatinge with readers hauing but an outward calling because it is a sinne to communicate with them whiche onely want the same hauing fitnes to teache is such as I can not but maruell that you would thinke it could bee answered by a desiring of the question which is a fault in reasoninge wherein be like you seeme to take delight you say againe that readers deliuer a sacrament How can we be sure thereof why may not I say as well that a man indued with giftes to teach doth deliuer a sacrament though he haue no outwarde calling whiche assertion would be false By an extraordinarye sacrament I meane baptisme or the Lords supper administred either priuatly by a minister or any way by on that is no minister I neuer affirmed the elements deliuered by readers to be sacraments It is one thing not to deny them another thing to affirme them to be sacraments the former I haue written the latter I neuer did they doe my writinges great iniurie that report the contrary Thus M. Some I haue run through the pointes in your booke that concerned me I haue beene driuen to deale briefly therein I had determined and I am inforced to ende and to omit that which page 9. line 11. I promised to handle in the latter end with diuers other I haue not the like libertie for printing that you M. Some doe inioy Let me but haue the fauor to bee iudicially heard according to the word and I will personally vpon the perill of my life defend these two points against all men I am sory that you whom I reuerence should be the instrument to oppugne a trueth The Lord respect the cause of his owne glorie and pardon our sinne Amen ERRATA Page 1. line 20. 23. for 2. read 3. pag 47. line 14. blot out family be excluded from the