tamed unholy holy Christians Antichristians How sad an evidence is this that the soule of the Answerer hath never yet heard the call of the Lord Jesus to come out from those unconverted Churches from that unconverted Antichristian-Christian world c. Defender Reply 1. When we come to those Arguments truly and fairly collected out of this place of Timothy which is not till the next chapter we shall God willing consider what Truth and fairnesse they hold forth which if it be found wee shall consider whether they be of force against the Truth witnessed by me In the meane time for Answer to his demand what I should meane by the unconverted Christian in Creete Answ I must take it upon his credit that I spake at all of any unconverted Christian in Creete Mine owne copy is not extant with me And the Transcript which with much seeking I found hath it instead of unconverted Christians in Creete unconverted persons in Ephesus As indeed Timothy was left at Ephesus when Paul wrote to him his first Epistle as is evident 1 Tim. 1.3 and Titus it was who was left at Creete Tit. 1.5 But whether Timothy was then at Ephesus when Paul wrote his second Epistle to him is not so certaine But wheresoever he was as being an Evangelist he was not limited to a certaine place doubtlesse there wanted not unconverted persons amongst whom the Members of the Church lived Yea but they were not unconverted Christians for it is as much as unconverted Converts c. Answ It must lye upon the Discussers credit whether I used at all such a phrase or no sure I am I cannot hitherto after much seeking find mine owne hand-written copy which might cleare the mistake both of Creet for Ephesus and unconverted Christians for unconverted Persons But let it not seeme strange to him to heare tell of unconverted Christians or unconverted Converts There is no contradiction at all in the words When the Lord saith that Judah turned unto him not with all her heart but fainedly Jer. 3.10 Was she not then an unconverted Convert converted in shew and profession but unconverted in heart and Truth Let him then consider his own phrase here misapplyed whether this be the Language of Canaan or the Language of Ashdod Jeremies Language is the Language of Anathoth not of Ashdod Reply 2. If the Discusser looke at it as a true but sad experience of my unconverted estate from unconverted Churches and that the Lord Jesus never yet called me to come out of them because I speake if I doe so speake of unconverted Christians living amongst them I must be contented still to lie under that imputation from him I never knew that Church yet nor ever read of it in which there was not or at least might not be found some unconverted Christians unconverted Converts Judas was found in Christs Family Ananias and Sapphira in the Apostolick Primitive Church Balaam and the Nicholaitans were found in Pergamus and Jesabel in Thyatira Besides I have not yet learned nor doe I thinke I ever shall that the children of beleiving Parents borne in the Church are all of them Pagans and no Members of the Church or that being Members of the Church so holy that they are all of them truly converted And if they be not alwayes truly converted then let him not wonder nor stumble at the phrase of unconverted Christians But if the Discusser doe sadly observe it that my soule hath not yet heard the call of the Lord Jesus to come out of unconverted Churches truly I have just cause not without sadnesse and mourning to consider and to pray that he might consider what call of the Lord Jesus his soule hath heard to come out not onely out of unconverted Churches but converted too yea out of all Churches Discusser Againe I observe the haste and light attention of the Answerer to these Scriptures as commonly the Spirits of Gods children in matters of Gods Kingdome are very sleepy for these persons here spoken of were not unconverted Christians in Creete whom Titus as an Evnngelist was to convert but they were such Opposites as Timothy to whom Paul writeth this Letter at Ephesus should not meet withall Defender Whether such words be found in the copy of my Answer to the Letter I leave it to the Discussers credit As I said even now mine owne copy I cannot after much diligent search finde the Transcript which I have found hath it otherwise the unconverted Persons in Ephesus whom Timothy as an Evangelist was to seeke to convert But if my copy doe speake as he reporteth Then 1. I doe not deny but have just cause to acknowledge mine owne haste and light attention and sleepinesse in the matters of Christs Kingdome not onely in this passage but frequently else in the race of my Christian course of life The Disciples themselves Christ found sleepy Matth. 26.40 how much more may he find me sleepy 2. The Discusser might have imputed it as well to my hast to gratifie his earnest desire to Answer his friends Letter and to my confidence in his love that for hast to satisfie him mistooke one place and person for another and was not so attentive to peruse and examine the copy sent by me to him as I would have been had I sent it to an Adversary 3. The case is all one in the matters of Christs Kingdome whether I had named Timothy or Titus Ephesus or Creete For the persons were both of them Evangelists and the places of them both such as had unconverted persons in them and like enough unconverted Christians too Ephesus had evill persons amongst them whom they could not beare Rev. 2.2 as well as Creet had amongst them such as were alwayes lyars evill Beasts slow bellies Tit. 1.12 4. The Discusser that observeth haste and light attention and sleepinesse in another one would thinke would be more vigilant and attentive himselfe He that saith as the Discusser doth in his parenthesis that Paul wrote this Letter to wit his second Epipistle to Timothy at Ephesus taketh it for granted that which without some hasty lightnesse even the same which he blameth in my selfe he cannot beleive that Paul wrote his second to Timothy at Ephesus There is no word in the Epistle that speaketh of Timothies being at Ephesus when Paul wrote that second Epistle His calling of an Evangelist did not permit him to tarry long in a place and the first Epistle to Timothy is thought by the Learned to have been written one of the first of all Pauls Epistles next after those of the Thessalonians But the second Epistle to Timothy was written last of all the Epistles when Pauls time of departure was at hand 2 Tim. 4.6 And when Paul writeth 2 Timothy 4.12 that he had sent Tychicus to Ephesus It is not likely he would have written so to Timothy if Timothy then had been at Ephesus For Timothy would have knowne that Tychycus had been at Ephesus or if Tychicus
Request of the generall Councel of Nice Banished Arius with some of his fellowes Ecclesiast Histor l 1. Cap. 19.20 The same Constantine made a severe Law against the Donatists the like proceedings against them were used by Valentinian Gratian Theodosius as Augustine reporteth in Epist 166. onely Julian the Apostate graunted liberty to Hereticks as well as to Pagans that he might by Tolerating all weeds to grow choake the vitalls of Christianity Which was also the practise and sinne of Ualens the Arian Queene Elizabeth as famous for her government as most of the former It is well knowne what Lawes she made and executed against Papists Yea and King James one of your owne Witnesses though he was slow in proceeding against Papists as you say for Conscience sake yet you are not ignorant how sharply and severely he punished those whom the Malignant world calleth Puritans men of more Conscience better Faith then the Papists whom he Tolerated Discusser First for mine owne part I would not use an Argument from the number of Princes witnessing in profession or practise against persecution for cause of Conscience c. Truth and Faith must not be received with respect of persons pretious pearles are found in muddy shells The most High chooseth the poore of this world to be witnesses to his Truth and Buchanan dying was going thither whether few Kings were comming Defender This Chapter then might have been spared for it neither maintaineth his cause nor refuteth my answer to his friends Argument but yeeldeth up the invalidity of the Argument from such a Topick place As from the number and votes of Princes But by his leave the answer which I gave to his argument is not taken from the like number of Princes but from the greater piety and presence of God with those Princes who have professed and practised against Toleration It is truly said Suffragia non sunt numeranda sed ponderanda Heroicall wisdome magnanimity and zeale is not the lesse to be esteemed because it is found in the spirit and counsel and practise of Princes CHAP. 59. A Reply to his Chap. 62. Discusser Secondly I observe how inconsiderately I hope not willingly the Answerer passeth by the reasons and grounds urged by these three Princes In King James his speech he passeth by that golden Maxime that God never loved to plant his Church by bloud Defender The Discusser is mistaken when he saith I passed over their reasons and grounds inconsiderately though he hopeth not willingly for indeed I passed them over willingly but not inconsiderately For I well considered either the reasons wanted weight or else did not impugne the cause in hand For instance this speech of King James That God never loved to plant his Church by bloud though it be a Truth of weight yet it doth not touch this cause It is farre from us to defend the planting of Churches by bloud that is to compell men to yeeld themselves to the fellowship of the Church by bloudy Lawes or poenalties the Church of Christ admitteth no members but a willing people Psal 110.3 Neverthelesse that hindereth not but as the Church was purchased and planted by the bloud of Christ so he that shall goe about to supplant and destroy the Church of Christ his bloud may justly fall upon his owne head Discusser Secondly That civill obedience may be performed by Papists this was another reason of King James passed over by the Answerer Defender No marvell that I passed it over for I did not finde it in the Letter For though the King say as the Letter reporteth him I onely declared to be secured for civill obedience which for Conscience cause they were bound to performe yet the King doeth not say That civill obedience may be performed by Papists standing stedfast to the rules of their owne Religion For if the Bishop of Rome upon pretence of hereticall pravity shall excommunicate a Protestant Prince dissolve the Subjects Oath of Allegiance to him depose him dispose of his Kingdome In this case which often falleth out how can civill obedience be performed by the Papists Discusser Thirdly The Kings third ground is his observation in Revel 20. That persecution is a true certaine note of a false Church The wicked are Beseigers the faithfull Beseiged Defender I subscribe to the King that persecution properly so called that is the oppression of any for righteousnesse sake is a note of a false Church but nor a certaine note For againe I say that persecution properly so called may be sometime found in the true Church For which of all the Prophets did not the Church of the old Testament persecute Acts 7.52 And yet that persecution was not the true and certaine note of a false Church For then God had left no true Church upon the face of the earth But this I graunt That such persecution where ever it is found It is a degree of falshood and A postacy in that Church But what a vast distance is there between the just censure of Apostasticall and Hereticall seducers and disturbers of the Churches peace and truth and between persecution As for the other speech The wicked are beseigers the faithfull are beseiged It may well be said of the seige spoken of in that 20. of the Revelation But if it should be put for a universall Maxime Royall Authority cannot make it good Divinity When the ten Christian Kings shall hate the Whore of Rome and eate her flesh and burne her with fire Rev. 17.16 I suppose the Discusser will not say the wicked are Beseigers the faithfull are beseiged Discusser In King Stephens speech of Poland he passeth by the true difference between a civill and a spirituall Government I am said Stephen a civill Magistrate over the bodyes of men not a spirituall over their soules Defender King Stephens speech may well stand and the cause still untouched The Magistrate is a Ruler over the Bodies of men not over their soules He cannot command their soules nor binde their Consciences nor punish their spirits It is the Lord alone can reach them That which the King or Magistrate can doe or doeth in this case is to punish the bodyes of men for destroying or disturbing Religion Discusser To confound these is Babel and Jewish to seeke for Moses and bring him from his Grave c. Defender It is Babel indeed for civill Magistrates to make Lawes to binde Conscience and to excommunicate transgressors of those Lawes But to punish false Prophets and Seducers of Gods people to Idolatry was never the practise of Babel but it was and is their practise not onely to Tolerate them but to advance and encourage them If it were a Jewish seeking of Moses and a bringing him from his Grave to punish Seducers for Idolatry then after Moses was buried that Law Deut. 13. was abrogated But his buryall and Gods hiding of the place thereof was rather a confirmation and establishment of it then any Abrogation or Impeachment
Chapter Onely 2. Things more remaine in this Chapter which may not passe without some touch 1. That he saith Gods People in all their awakenings acknowledge how sleightly they have listned to the checks of their owne Conscience This the Answerer pleaseth to call sinning against Conscience for which he may lawfully be persecuted to wit for sinning against his owne Conscience Wherein there is found a double falshood 1. That he saith I call the sleight listnings of Gods People to the checks of their Conscience their sinning against Conscience For I speake not of the sinning of Gods People against Conscience but of an Heretick subverted turned off from the Foundation much lesse doe I call their sleight listnings to Conscience to be Hereticall sinning against Conscience 2. Least of all doe I say that for such sleight listnings to the checks of Conscience he may lawfully be persecuted to wit as for sinning against Conscience Thus men that have time and leasure at will will set up Images of clouts and then shoot at them The 2. Thing in this Chapter which I said might not passe without some touch is that having fastned upon me a conclusion which is none of mine but an invention of his owne He addeth howsoever it be painted over with vermillion c. yet he hopeth to manifest it to be the overturning and rooting up of the roote of all true Christianity and absolutely denying the Lord Jesus to be come in the flesh Whereto I Reply no more but this If he doe manifest that which Magnanimously he undertaketh It may happyly be also manifested by the helpe of Christ that it will overturne no conclusion of mine But howsoever let him remember it was a proverb in Israel Let not him that girdeth on his Armour boast himselfe as he that putteth it off 2 Kings 20.11 CHAP. 15. A Reply to his fifteenth Chapter touching the admonition and rejection of an Heretick THe first and second Admonitions in the place of Titus were not Civill or corporall punishments on mens persons or purses But they were the reprehensions convictions exhortations and perswasions of the word of the Eternall God charged home to the Conscience in the Name and Presence of the Lord Jesus in the midst of his Church Which being despised and not hearkened unto in the last place followeth rejection which is not a cutting off by heading hanging burning nor an expelling out of the Countrey and coasts but the dreadfull cutting off from the visible head and body Christ Jesus and his Church Spirituall cutting off by Excommunication Defender All this the proofes of this in this Chapter I willingly consent and subscribe unto nor doth this touch any conclusion of mine at all much lesse Discusse or shake it For though I said indeed that for an erroneous and blinde Conscience even in Fundamentall and weighty Points It is not lawfull to persecute any till after Admonition once or twice according to Tit. 3.10.11 Yet in alledging that place to prove that Conclusion I intended no other persecution but the Churches prosecution against such an Heretick by excommunication no syllable in my conclusion looketh at more If it be said but Excommunication or any other Church-prosecution cannot fitly be called persecution Yes verily excommunication is a persecution and a lawfull persecution if the cause be just offence as the Angell of the Lord is said to persecute the wicked Psalm 35.6 But the Excommunication is a cruell and bitter persecution If it be without just cause and due order yea and the more greivous persecution by how much the more greivous it is to a Christian man to be excluded from the Communion of the Saints then to be banished from a civill Society sure it is the Lord Jesus accounteth it a persecution to his Disciples to be delivered up unto the Synagogues and to be cast forth out of the Synagogues Luk. 21.12 with Joh. 16.2 CHAP. 16. A Reply to his sixteenth Chapter touching To leration in Points of lesse moment Discusser For a third Position or Conclusion the Answerer gave this that in things of lesse moment whether Points of Doctrine or Worship If a man hold them forth in a spirit of Christian meeknesse and love though with zeale and constancy he is not to be persecuted but tolerated till God may be pleased to manifest his truth to him This conclusion I acknowledge to be the Truth of God yet 3. things are very observeable in the manner of laying it downe 1. That such a Person may be tolerated till God may be pleased to reveale his truth to him upon the same ground the Apostle calleth for meeknesse and Gentlenesse towards all men and towards such as oppose themselves 2. Tim. 2. because it may be God may give them repentance Hence a soule that is lively and sensible of Gods mercy cannot but be patient and gentle towards the Jewes towards the Turkes yea to all the severall sorts of Anti-Christians yea to the Pagans and to the wildest sort of the Sonnes of men who have not heard of the Father and of the Sonne c. Yea not onely be patient to such but also to pray for such yea and to endeavour their participation of the same grace and mercy Defender This nothing shaketh no nor so much as toucheth our cause or defence we thinke it unlawfull for the Church to censure such as are out of the Church And for the Civill State we know no ground they have to persecute Jewes or Turkes or other Pagans for cause of Religion though they all erre in Fundamentalls No nor would I exempt Anti-Christians neither from Toleration notwithstanding their Fundamentall Errors unlesse after conviction they still continue to seduce simple soules into their damnable and pernicious Heresies as into the Worship of false Gods into confidence of their owne merits for Justification into seditious conspiracyes against the lives and States of such Princes as will not submit their Consciences to the Bishop of Rome Which if the Discusser shall in the sequell pluck off as the silken covering of an Image as he calleth it we shall further attend him Discusser 2. I observe from the Scriptures he quoteth for this Toleration Phil. 3. Rom. 14. how closely yet I hope unadvisedly he maketh the Churches of Christ at Philippi and Rome all one with the Cities of Philippi and Rome c. Defender No such matter I never thought these Scriptures to belong at all to the Cities of Philippi or Rome Paul writeth to both the Churches not only to tolerate but to receive their weake brethren who dissent from them in matters of lesse moment but to the Cities I never read any Epistle of his Who would ever imagine the Discusser should be so farre transported beyond all bounds either of reason or truth or candor as to surmise the Answerer should conceive That what those Churches must not tolerate in their holy communion that the Cities of Philippi and Rome must not tolerate within the compasse
wit whilest they remaine bad yet it is their worke to seek the changing of the bad into good ground that so they may come to prosper and flourish For is it not the proper work of the Church to bring on their children to become the sincere People of God as well as to keep themselves in that estate Is it not a maine Branch of their Covenant with God that as God giveth himselfe to be a God to them and to their seed so they should give up themselves and their seed to be his People Besides hath not God given Pastours and Teachers as well for the gathering together of the Saints as for the edification of the body of Christ And hath he not given the Church and the Gospel Preached in the Church to lye like Leaven in three Pecks of Meale till all be Leavened Mat. 13.33 Answ 4. There is not such resemblance between High-way-side ground and good ground as is between Tares and Whea nor would the servants of the Husbandman ever wonder that weeds should grow in the high-way-side ground as they do at the growing of Tares in the Field Nor would they ever aske the Question whether they should pluck up weeds out of the High-way-side or stones out of the stony ground or pluck up Thornes out of the Thorney CHAP. 23. A Reply to his Chapt. 23. Still touching the Tares Discusser These Tares I shall evidently prove to be Idolaters and in particular properly Antichristians For first these Tares are such sinners as are opposite and contrary to the Children of the Kingdome visibly so declared and manifest ver 38. Defender Answ 1. These Tares are not such sinners as are contrary to the children of the Kingdome for then none should be opposite to them but they For contraries are such quorum unum uni opponitur But evident it is there be more wicked ones opposite to the children of the Kingdome then Idolaters and Antichristians to wit those notoriously scandalous wicked ones whom the Discusser nameth in the next Chapter Drunkards Thieves uncleane Persons Answ 2. It is a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a begging of the Question to say that these Tares are such sinners as are opposite and contrary to the children of the Kingdome visibly so declared and manifested For the Tares were not discerned at first as hath been shewed above till the blade was sprung up and brought forth fruit Discusser These Tares are the Children of the wicked one which wicked one I take to be not the Devill for the Lord Jesus seemeth to make them distinct The Tares saith he are the Children of the wicked one or wickednesse the Enemy that sowed them is the Devill Defender Answ 1. The Devill and the wicked one may well meane one and the same Person For if the Devill sowed these Tares then these Tares were the seed and so the children of the Devill Why should they be called the seed of one and the children of another Answ 2. Suppose 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be translated the children of the wicked one or wickednesse that style will agree to hypocrites as well as to other Persons Sure it is the Lord Jesus often calleth the Scribes and Pharises Hypocrites Mat. 23. and he calleth them also a wicked and adulterous Generation Mat. 16. And therefore still these Tares will not appeare to be others then Hypocrites CHAP. 24. A Reply to his 24. Chapter Still touching the Tares Discusser Though all Drunkards Thieves uncleane Persons c. be opposite to Gods Children yet the opposition of the Tares here against the Children of the Kingdome is such an opposition as fights against the religious state and Kingdome of the Lord Jesus Christ 2. It is manifest the Lord Jesus intendeth no other sort of sinners in this Parable then Antichristians unto whom here he saith let them alone in Church or State For then he should contradict other holy and blessed Ordinances for the punishment of Offenders both in Christian and Civill State For 1. In the Civill State God hath armed Parents Masters Magistrates to punish evill doers Murderers Quarrellers uncleane Persons stealers extortioners such ought not to be let alone neither in lesser nor greater Families Townes Cities Kingdomes Rom. 13. but seasonably supprest c. 2. In the Kingdome of Christ whose Officers Lawes punishments weapons are all Spirituall and of a Soule-nature he will not have Antichristian Idolaters Extortioners Covetous c. to be let alone but the uncleane Lepers to be thrust forth c. Therefore if neither the Offenders against the Civill Lawes State and Peace ought to be let alone nor the Spirituall State the Church ought to beare with them that are evill Rom. 2. I Conclude that these Tares are sinners of another nature Idolaters false Worshippers Antichristians who without discouragement to true Christians must be let alone and permitted in the world to grow up untill the great Harvest Defender Answ 1. As all wicked Persons be opposite to Gods children for the children of the Kingdome of Light and the children of the Kingdome of darknesse cannot but be opposite so the opposition that is in all the wicked against the children of God doth fight against the religious state and Kingdome of the Lord Jesus For such as stand for the Kingdome of Satan as all wicked men doe they stand in opposition to the Kingdome of Christ No man can serve two Masters If he cleave to the one he standeth in enmitie to the other Mat. 6.24 Answ 2. It followeth not that because Christ biddeth his Ministers Let the wicked alone in Church or State That therefore he intendeth no other then Antichristian Idolaters Neither should Christ contradict any Ordinance of his own for the punishment of Offenders both in Christian and Civill State though he should command other offenders to be let alone besides Antichristians For no Ordinance or Law of God nor just Law of man commandeth the rooting out of hypocrites either by Civill or Church-censure though the Church be bound to endeavour as much as in them lyeth to heale their hypocrisie Answ 3. Neither is it true that Antichristians are to be let alone by the Ordinance of Christ till the end of the world For what if the members of a Christian Church shall some of them Apostate to Antichristian Superstition and Idolatry as often falleth out by the seduction of the Emissaries of Babel doth the Ordinance of Christ binde the hands of the Church of which they are Members to let them alone In chapter 19. The Discusser himself would not have the superstitious observation of Lent-Fasts to be let alone And surely Christ ordained by his blessed Apostle Paul that if any Brother proved an Idolater whether Pagan or Antichristian such an one should be cast out by excommunication 1 Cor. 5.11 Besides What if any Antichristian Persons out of zeale to the Catholick Cause and out of conscience to the command of their Superiours should seeke to destroy the King and Parliament
a City or civill State and for the suppressing of uncivill and injurious Persons or Actions by civill punishment And therefore this Sword cannot extend now as it did in Israel of old to spirituall and soule causes to spirituall and soule punishments Defender I easily hold with the Discusser that the civill Sword doth not extend to spirituall and soule punishments But if the civill Sword ought to extend to the defence of civill men in civill Liberties then why not also to the like defence of Churches and spirituall persons in their spirituall Liberties It is the Office of the civill Magistrate to governe his people in righteousnesse And if spirituall Liberties be in righteousnesse due to spirituall persons as well as civill Liberties to civill persons doubtlesse the Magistrate is defective in Rules of righteousnesse if he onely attend the defence of the civill people in their civill Rights and neglect to defend his spirituall people in their spirituall Rights What though the Sword be of a materiall and civill nature so it was in the Old Testament as well as in the new It can therefore reach no further either then or now then unto the punishment of men in bodily life or civill Liberties But it can reach to punish in these things not onely the offenders in bodily Life and civill Liberties but also the offendors against spirituall Life and soule Liberties What though it be called a civill Sword in common speech It is not a Scripture-phrase so to call it It may as fitly be called the Sword of God as well as the Sword of warre is so called Judges 7.20 which the Discusser guilefully or else unskilfully distinguisheth in this chapter from the civill Sword Now if the Sword of the Judge or Magistrate be the Sword of the Lord why may it not be drawne forth as well to defend his Subjects in true Religion as in civill Peace And as Magistrates are called in common speech civill Magistrates so are they called also in the Language of the Sanctuary Gods Psal 82.1.6 If civill Magistrates are to attend to civill matters are not Gods to attend to Gods matters It was wont to goe for a good Argument â conjugatis homo sum humani nihil â me alienum puto But now by the Discussers Doctrine the Magistrate may say Ego dignatione Divinâ Deus sum Psal 82. quatenus autem Deus sum Divina omnia â me aliena puto Now farre be all such reasonlesse and Paganish yea worse then Paganish Atheology from us Worse then Paganish I say for Pagan Princes accounted their Religion their chiefe care prima cura sacrorum And can a Christian forbid the care of Religion to Magistrates I say not without blushing but without trembling Object But Magistrates were called Gods in the Old Testament not so in the New Now under Christ all Nations are meerely Civill without any such Typicall holy respect upon them as was upon Israel a Nationall Church Ans It is written in the New Testament the Kingdomes of the world are become the Kingdomes of the Lord and of Christ Rev. 17.15 And if the Kingdomes be Gods Kingdomes and the Kingdomes of Christ then the Kings of those Kingdomes are Gods Kings and Christian Kings and what Title is there in all the New Testament that either derogateth from the Titles or Office of Kings Though the Nations now have not that Typicall holinesse which the Nation of Israel had yet all the Churches of the Saints have as much Truth and reality of holinesse as Israel had And therefore what holy care of Religion lay upon the Kings of Israel in the Old Testament the same lyeth now upon Christian Kings in the New Testament to protect the same in their Churches CHAP. 51. A Reply to his Chap. 51. Discusser A Fourth Argument from this Scripture Rom. 13. I take in ver 6. which is a meerely civill reward for the Magistrates worke Now as the wages be such is the worke but the wages are meerely Civill Custome Tribute not the contributions of the Saints or Churches of Christ c. Defender The Contributions of the Saints and Churches are truly called by the Apostle carnall things Romans 15.27 and againe 2 Cor. 9.11 But shall a man therefore thus reason as the wages be such is the worke But the wages are carnall things therefore such is the worke of the Ministers of the Gospel to whom such wages are paid It is true the contributions of the Saints may be called Holy because they are given to God and by his appointment to the maintenance of such as minister in his house about his holy things But these are mentall relations no reall differances in the thigns given to Magistrates and Ministers The wages given to them both are carnall things And consider them both in their proper ends as the rewards given to Ministers are given for their service about holy things so the rewards given to Magistrates are given for their service about righteous things Now if the Purity of Doctrine worship and Government be righteous priviledges of all the Churches in the Common-wealth surely Magistrates doe not well deserve all their wages that suffer the Churches to be bereaved and dispoyled of their spirituall priviledges which is the greatest and best part of their Birth-right Besides the Apostle commandeth the Churches and Saints not onely to pay to Magistrates Tribute and Custome which are civill things but also to poure out all manner of Prayers and Supplications Intercessions and given of thanks for them 1 Tim. 1.1 2. And surely these are spirituall dues and not Earthly And therefore Magistrates owe to the Churches and Saints some Spirituall recompences which the Apostle also there nameth that we may live a quiet and peaceable Life in all godlinesse and honesty ver 2. If therefore the Churches and Saints be not suffered to live a quiet and peaceable Life in Godlinesse and honesty or if they be suffered to live a quiet and peaceable life in ungodlinesse and dishonesty the Magistrates fall short of returning spirituall recompence for the spirituall Duties and services performed for them Discusser Lastly that the Spirit of God never intended to direct or warrant the Magistrate to use his power in spirituall affaires and Religions I argue from the Terme or Title given by God to such civill Officers to wit Gods Ministers ver 6. Defender One would thinke the Argument would rather evince the contrary For what is a Minister but a Servant and what is a servant but he that is at his Masters command for his efficient cause and for his Masters ends as his finall cause How shall then a Magistrate carrie himselfe as a Minister of God and yet fall short and intended so to doe both of Gods Commandements in his Lawes and of Gods worship and glory in the execution of them Discusser But at the very first blush any man will acknowledge a double Ministery the one appointed by Christ in his Church to order the
knew it was out of Question all persecution was unlawfull whether by the Church or the Magistrate an unjust excommunication is as true persecution as an unjust Banishment But if persecution be taken more largely and loosely as it is by the Author of the Letter and by the Discusser for any affliction or persecution for cause of Conscience whether good Conscience or evill whether rightly informed or erroneous If that be the intent of the Letter as it seemed to me to beare witnesse against that then any testimony of Scripture that justifieth a lawfull censure of false and erroneous Teachers doth evince the scope of the Letter to be erroneous which is against all persecution for cause of Conscience Let therefore the Discusser admire at his owne admiration and be astonished at his owne astonishment that wondereth to see an universall negative argued against by a particular affirmative The Letter denyeth the lawfulnesse of all persecution in cause of Conscience that is in matter of Religion I seek to evince the falshood of it by an instance of lawfull Church-prosecution in case of false Teachers Discusser But if the Churches and Angels thereof had sufficient power to suppresse Balaam and Jezabel then all power of Magistrates and Governours in Pergamus and Thyatira though they had been Christian must needs fall to the ground as none of Christs appointment Defender The power of the Churches and Angels of Pergamus and Thyatyra were sufficient for those ends for which Christ ordained Church-power to wit for the healing of the soules of such seducers if they belonged to Christ as also for keeping those Churches pure from the fellowship of the guilt of their Act in teaching false Doctrines whom they had duly censured But the power of those Churches and Angels was not sufficient to prevent the further spreading of the Leaven of their false Doctrines both in such as were out of the Church and in private amongst the members of the Church who might adhere to them Much lesse was the putting forth of the Church-power against them sufficient to cleare the Magistrates of a Christian State from the guilt of Apostasie in suffering such Apostates amongst them who would be ready to solicite many simple soules either to with-hold and with-draw themselves from the Fellowship of the Churches or in the Churches to withdraw from the Lord Jesus Discusser Lastly from this perverse wresting of what is writ to the Church and the Officers thereof as if it were writ to the Civill Officers and State thereof all may see how since the Apostacie of Antichrist the Christian world so called hath swallowed up Christianity how the Church and Civill State that is the Church and the world are now become one flock of Jesus Christ c. Defender Here is no wresting much lesse perverse wresting of any Scripture at all from the Church to the Civill State I intended to apply the Scripture written to the Churches and to the Officers thereof no further then to other Churches and their Officers The Scriptures upon which we call in the Magistrate to the punishment of Seducers are such as are directed to civill States and Magstrates of which divers have been mentioned and applyed before CHAP. 56. A Reply to his Chap. 58 and 59. Discussing the Testimony of some Princes Discusser I Proceed to the second Head of Reasons against persecution for cause of Conscience taken from the profession of famous Princes King James Stephen of Poland King of Bonemia Vnto whom the Answerer returneth a treble Answer 1. Wee willingly acknowledge saith he that none is to be persecuted at all no more then any may be oppressed for righteousnesse sake Again we acknowledge that none is to be punished for his Conscience though misinformed unlesse his errour be fundamentall or seditiously and turbulently promoted and that after due conviction of his Conscience that it may appeare he is not punished for his Conscience but for sinning against his Conscience Furthermore we acknowledge none is to be constrained to believe or professe the true Religion till he be convinced in Judgement of the truth of it but yet restrayned he may be from blaspheming the Truth and from seducing any into pernicious errours This first Answer I believe I have sufficiently cleared the weaknesse of the Foundations thereof in the former discourse Defender And I doubt not but by the help of Christ I have formerly declared and convinced the feeblenesse of the opposition made against them and what firme foundations those Answers are built upon from the Scriptures of Truth Discusser His second Answer is this what Princes professe and practise is not a Rule of Conscience They many times tolerate that in State Policy which cannot justly be tolerated in point of true Christianity Againe Princes many times tolerate Offendors out of very necessity when the Offenders are too many or too mighty for them to punish In which respect David tolerated Joab and his murder but against his will It may be here observed how the Answerer dealeth with Princes one while they are nursing Fathers to the Church not onely to feed but also to correct and therefore consequently bound to judge what is true feeding and correcting and consequently all men are bound to submit to their feeding and correcting Defender The Discusser doth partly falsly and partly fraudulently fasten upon me this dealing with Princes That I make them nursing Fathers of the Church I therein follow the footsteps of the Holy Ghost before me teaching what Princes should be and foretelling what they shall be in the latter dayes Isaiah 49.23 In which place It was not the intent of the Holy Ghost nor mine to threaten the Church with a red of Correction But to comfort the Church with a double blessing First of the Fatherly provision and protection of Princes for the Church Secondly of their subjection to the Church in respect of their spirituall Estate What Princes may doe in case the Church should Apostate and become no Church or in case they should breake forth into Sedition and Rebellion against the Civill State It is another Question which I have not medled with in all this Discourse Neither have I spoken of Princes as bound to Judge what is true feeding or correcting least of all have I said that all men are bound especially in Conscience to their feeding and correcting These are calumnies devised by the Discusser All I have said to my remembrance this way is that Princes are bound to be wise and Learned with holy knowledge that they may kisse the Sonne and be subject to him Psal 2.10.11 And therefore able to discerne of such corrupt feeding as destroyeth the Foundation of Religion and the soules of Gods people that they may be able to restraine such and to preserve the Church from such ravenous Wolves and I deny not that their Subjects are to submit to them herein when they judge according to the Word or howsoever patiently to suffer for well-doing without resistance
Religion may not be propagated by the civill Sword Vnto which I Reply what meaneth then this passage in his first Answer to the former speeches of the Kings viz. We acknowledge that none is to be constrained to believe or professe the true Religion till he be convinced in Judgement of the Truth of it Defender If it be observed my Agreement with Hilary then let it be observed that the Discusser in whetting the words of the Authors of the Letter against us layeth a false charge upon us as if we maintained such persecution for cause of Conscience as is condemned by the Ancient Writers Of whom Hilary is named for one and for the first and yet in the Discussion it is found that we agree with him In that Answer to the speeches of the Kings when I acknowledged that none was to be constrained to beleive or professe the true Religion till he be convinced of the Truth of it I did not meane that after he was convinced he might then be constrained with civill censfures for neither beleiving nor professing to beleive is to be constrained with civill censures But yet thus farre he may be constrained by withholding such countenance and favour from him such encouragement and employment from him as a wise and discerning Prince would otherwise grant to such as beleive the Truth and professe it so far as they are convinced of it in Judgement and Conscience For such as will not walke according to their Light are neither trusty servants to God nor man Discusser That Answer to the speech of the Kings implyeth two things 1. That the civill Magistrate who is to constraine must judge of all the Consciences of their Subjects whether they be convinced or no. 2. That when the civill Magistrate discerneth that his Subjects Consciences are convinced then he may constraine them vi armis hostilely And accordingly who knoweth not what constraint lyeth upon all Consciences in Old and New-England to come to Church and to pay Church-Duties which is upon the point though with a Sword of a finer gilt and trim in New-England nothing else but that which he confesseth Hilary saith should not be done to wit a Propagation of Religion by the Sword Defender Neither of both these things are implyed in that Answer Not the first that the civill Magistrate must then Judge of all of the Consciences of their Subjects whether they be convinced or no For it implyeth no more then that he is not to constraine them till he see they be convinced If he never see them convinced he is to see they be never constrained But how far the Magistrate may discerne and judge in matters of Religion hath been spoken above Nor the second For the constraint I spake of was not by positive meanes vi Armis but negative withholding such trust and employment from such as he seeth are not faithfull and trusty to their God of whose Truth they are convinced and yet withhold it in unrighteousnesse I know no constraint at all that lieth upon the consciences of any in New-England to come to Church neither doe I know that any scruple lyeth upon any Conscience in New-England that withholdeth any from hearing the word amongst us But least of all doe I know that any are constrayned to pay Church-duties in New-EnglaÌ„d Sure I am none in our own Town neither Church-members nor other are constrained to pay any Church-duties at all What they pay they give voluntarily each one with his owne hand without any constraint at all but their owne will as the Lord directs them Discusser Againe although he confesseth that Propagation of Religion ought not to be by the Sword yet he maintaineth the use of the Sword when persons in the Judgment of the Civill State for that is implyed shall blaspheme the true God and the true Religion and also seduce others to damnable Heresie and Idolatry Defender True but this is not the Propagation of Religion but the preservation of it or if it doe conduce to Propagation it is onely removendo probibens CHAP. 67. A Reply to his Chap. 70. Discussing the Testimony of Tertullian Discusser TO Tertullian the Answerer giveth the like Answer Tertullians Intent saith he is onely to restraine Scapula the Romane Governour of Africa from persecuting the Christians for not offering Sacrifice to their Heathen Gods and for that end fetcheth an Argument from the Law of Naturall Equity not to compell any to any Religion but to permit them to beleive or not to beleive at all Which we acknowledge we judge the English may permit the Indians to continue in their unbeliefe Neverthelesse it will not therefore be lawfull to tolerate the publick worship of Devils or Idols in a Christian State or the seduction of any from the Truth In this passage he agreeth with Tertullian but it is well known that in New-England they not onely permit the Indians to continue in their unbeleife which they cannot help but they also permit or tolerate them in their Paganish worship which cannot be denyed to be a worshipping of Devils And therefore consequently according to the same practise did they walke by Rule and impartially not onâ—â— the Indians but their Countrymen French Dutch Spanish Per … Turkes Jewes should also be permitted in their Worships if correspondent in civill obedience Defender It is not true that the New-English doe tolerate the Indians who have submitted to the English protection and Government in their worship of Devils openly What the Indians doe that are not under the English Government the English have no warrant from God or Law of Nations to restraine them nor is it in the power of the English to restraine the private Worship which some of the Indians under the English Government may possibly adhere unto the this day What courses have been used to bring them on to Civility and to the knowledge of our Religion by faire meanes are not pertinent to the present controversie to relate It hath been an Article of the Covenant between such Indians as have submitted to our Government that they shall submit to the ten Commandements which they thought reasonable Some of their Sachims young children are brought up with us and trained up to knowledge Such of them as come to our Houses are fed with curtesie and care taken often to instruct them as farre yea further then they are greatly willing to heare Some of them of late frequent our markets to get mony by selling Fish Baskets whortleberries Cramberries which taketh them off from some idlenesse Some English are studious of the Indian Language to deale with them in their owne Tongue Of late some of our Ministers have preached to a Congregation of them whil'st others at first interpreted what was preached but since one of our Ministers preacheth to them in their owne Language The other day whil'st I was at the Colledge with other Elders an Indian from Plimmouth side an hopefull youth was received into some employment in
the Church be not nursed with poison in stead of milke And in so doing they keepe the first Table Reforme the Church judge in causes Ecclesiasticall Againe If the the same Princes shall bow down to the Church with their faces towards the earth and lick the dust of her feet as the same Text expresseth then they being members of the Church shall be subject also to Church-Censure In one word Princes sit on the Bench over the Church in the offensive Government of the Church yet may themselves being members of the Church be subject to Church-Censure in the offensive Government of themselves against the Rules of the Gospel The Examiner himselfe contesseth that in severall respects He that is a governor may be also a Subject Behold here are severall respects to wit severall objects of Judicature In the Mal-Administration of the Church the Magistrate sitteth as Judge and Governor in the Mal-Administration of a Church-Member-Magistrate contrary to the expresse rules of the Gospel he is subject to the power of Christ in the Church If it be said nay rather The Church is subject to the Magistrate in civill causes and the Magistrate is subject to the Church in spirituall causes I Answer That easeth not the difficulty no more then the other For suppose the Magistrate a Church member live in Incest breake forth into murder and notorious oppression these are all civill causes belonging to the second Table If the Magistrate sit as Judge and supreme Governor in this case then must the Church tolerate him herein to the dishonour of the great Name of Christ to the leavening of the Church and to the perdition of his soule If it be granted that in such a case though civill the Church is bound to deale faithfully with the Magistrate and not to suffer sinne upon him let the like power be granted to the Magistrate to deale faithfully with the Church in the notorious transgressions of the first Table as is granted to the Church to deale with the Magistrate in the notorious transgressions of the second Table and the controversie is ended If any further matter be claimed in making the Supreme Magistrate the Supreme Judge and Governor in all causes aswell Ecclesiasticall as civill I doe not understand that the Ministers or Churches of Christ are called to acknowledge such a meaning Sure I am the Interpretation of that high stile which godly learned Reynolds made of it in the 10. Chap. of his Conference with Hart It was accepted of the State in the dayes of Queene Elizabeth And the same Interpretation if no more be intended by that stile doth well stand with our defence But wherefore doe I put my Sicle into the Harvest of my Brethren my Brethren who penned that Modell are richly furnished by Christ with ability to defend it I therefore leave it to them whom it cheifly concerneth to maintaine the Truth which themselves have witnessed in that Modell And the Lord Jesus Christ himself the God of Truth who came into the world that he might beare witnesse to the Truth be pleased to beare witnesse from Heaven to his owne Truth and bl … that peace a fraudulent and false peace which the Examiner proclaimeth to all the wayes of falshood in Religion to Heresie in Doctrine to Idolatry in worship to blasphemy of the great Name of God to Pollution and prophanation of all his holy Ordiannces Amen Even So Come Lord Jesus A REPLY TO Mr. VVILLIAMS his EXAMINATION And Answer of the Letters sent to him by JOHN COTTON SUch a Letter to such a purpose I doe remember I wrote unto Mr. Williams about halfe a score yeares agoe But whether this printed Letter be a true Copie thereof or no I doe not know for the Letter being sent so long since and no Copie of it that I can finde reserved by me I can own it no further then I finde the matter and style expressing the judgement which I then had of his cause of Separation and the affection I bare unto his person And for ought I see the Letter doth not unfitly expresse both But how it came to be put in print I cannot imagine Sure I am it was without my privitie and when I heard of it it was to me unwelcome Newes as knowing the truth and weight of Plinies speech Aliud est scribere uni aliud omnibus There be who thinke it was published by Mr. Williams himselfe or by some of his friends who had the Copie from him Which latter might be the more probable because himselfe denieth the publishing of it and it sticketh in my mind that I received many yeares agoe a refutation of it in a brotherly and ingenuous way from a stranger to me but one as I heare well affected to him Mr. Sabine Staresmore To whom I had long agoe returned an Answer but that he did not direct me where my Letter might find him But I doe not suspect Mr. Staresmore nor Mr. Williams himselfe to have published it but rather some other unadvised Christian who having gotten a copie of the Letter tooke more libertie then God alloweth to draw forth a private Admonition to publick notice in a disorderly way But howsoever it was upon the publishing of this Letter Mr. Williams hath taken occasion as is observed by some who are acquainted with the Spirit of the man first to rise up against me the meanest of many in the examining and resuting of that Letter And then as if one Mordecai were too small a morsell to stand forth against all the Churches and Elders in New-England in his Bloudy Tenent And then as if New-England were but an handfull from thence to rise up against the choisest Ornaments of two populous Nations England and Scotland the reverend Assembly of Divines together with the reverend Brethren of the Apology and above them all to addresse himselfe according to his high thoughts to propound Quaeries of high concernment as he calleth them to the High and Honourable Court of Parliament So a Bird of prey affecting to soare aloft getteth first upon the top of a molehill and from thence taketh his rise from Pale to Tree till he have surmounted the highest Mountaines In this apprehension of him they are the more confirmed as having discerned the like frame of Spirit in his former walking amongst us Time was when of all Christian Churches the Churches of New-England were accounted and professed by him to be the most pure and of all the Churches in New-England Salem where himselfe was Teacher to be the most pure But when the Churches of New-England tooke just offence at sundry of his proceedings he first renounced communion with them all and because the Church of Salem refused to joyne with him in such a groundlesse Censure he then renounced communion with Salem also And then fell off from his Ministery and then from all Church-fellowship and then from his Baptisme and was himselfe baptized againe and then from the Lords Supper and
Common Prayer Booke which though they then seemed sandy to me yet since I have acknowledged to be rocky and have seene cause so to publish to the world in my Discourse to Mr. Ball against set formes of Prayer For a reply let me begin where he leaveth How ready he is to build upon sandy grounds may appeare by this very Passage where he maintaineth his rockinesse For here he avoucheth I have seene cause to publish to the world the rockinesse of his grounds in a Discourse to Mr. Ball against set Formes of Prayer What rocky ground doe you thinke this Assertion of his standeth upon I know no other but this He findeth such a Discourse published to the world and he thence concludeth for other Grounds he hath none that I published that Discourse and that I saw cause to publish it both which hang upon that ground like ropes of sand The truth is I did not publish that Discourse to the world much lesse did I see cause to publish it upon the Grounds he speaketh of A briefe Discourse in defence of set formes of Prayer was penned by Mr. Ball much briefer then that which since is put forth in Print That briefe Discourse a religious Knight sent over whether to my selfe or to a Gentleman of note then dwelling in my house I remember not but with desire to heare our judgement of it At his request I drew up a short Answer and sent one Copie of it to the Knight and another to Mr. Ball divers yeares agoe How it came in processe of time to be published to the world or by whom I doe not know And yet Mr. Williams doubteth not to affirme it that I published that Discourse to the world and saw cause to doe it Rocky spirits can expresse all their conceits in rocky firmnesse though upon sandy conjectures Besides when he saith That himselfe discovered to me and to other servants of God his grounds against our using of the Common Prayer which then seemed sandy to us but now in New-England I have acknowledged to be rocky in my Discourse to Mr. Ball. I could have wished he had expressed what grounds those were which he discovered to us For my selfe I can call to minde no such matter that ever I heard or received from him either by word or writing any solide grounds against that Practise But this I am sure of that the grounds of altering my judgement touching that practise did chiefly stand upon the exposition of the second Commandement which if I should say I received from him I should greatly feare my forehead were more rocky then his grounds were I thinke it no disgrace to change either my judgement or practise upon better grounds then I formerly discerned Nor would I thinke it a disgrace to learne any grounds of truth and to professe that I had learned them from himselfe if so I had done But sure I am it hath not been wont to be the manner of the servants of God to upbraid their Brethren with their Retractations of their former Aberrations I have read of the Churches of Judea that when they heard Paul now preached the Faith which once he destroyed they glorified God for him Gal. 1.23 24. but I never read that any of the Churches of Christ or any sincere member of the Churches did ever upbraid Paul for his former Persecution or for his present change The other part of the Chapter he spendeth in relating the grounds of the sentence of his Banishment and in the avouchment of his confidence of the firmenesse of them The grounds of the sentence of his Banishment some whereof He saith I am pleased to discusse in the Letter and others not to mention He saith were rightly summed up by one of the Magistrates after his publick Tryall and Answers Mr. Williams said that publick Person holdeth forth these foure particulars 1. That we have not our Land by Patent from the King but that the Natives are the true owners of it and that we ought to repent of such a receiving it by Patent 2. That it is not lawfull to call a wicked Person to sweare to pray as being actions of Gods worship 3. That it is not lawfull to heare any of the Ministers of the Parish-Assemblies in England 4. That the Civill Magistrates Power extends onely to the bodies and goods and outward state of men c. These particulars he hopeth that as he maintained the rockie strength of them to his own and other Consciences satisfaction So through the Lords assistance he shall be ready not onely to be bound and banished but to dye also in New-England as for most holy Truths of God in Christ Jesus It was not my intent in that Letter which he examineth to discusse the Grounds of his Civill Banishment at all neither did I discusse one or other of them And it is a preposterous shifting of the State of the Question to put it upon me to give account of the causes of his Banishment who neither did banish him nor provoked the Court to banish him out of the Countrey The Magistrates and Deputies of the Common-wealth who were then the Members of that Court are all of them of age and able themselves to give account of their own actions To them or some of them he should in reason have addressed himselfe for satisfaction in this case if any were due and not to me who am as seldome present at any Civill Court if not more seldome then any man of our calling in Towne or Countrey where the Courts are kept It were more then Aegyptian bondage to me and more then Pharaonicall tyranny in him to exact of me an account of all the capitall or notable sentences of Judgement which passe in all the Civill Courts of Justice in the Countrey unlesse I had a calling to sit amongst them But why did I then endeavour in my Letter to shew him the sandinesse of those grounds upon which he had banished himselfe c. If I did not meane to declare and discusse the causes of his Banishment He doth very well and wisely to expresse the Grounds upon which I said he banished himselfe with an c. For he knows that if he had related my whole sentence in my own words he had cut off himselfe from all opportunitie of pleading with me the causes of his Civill Banishment My words are plaine I endeavour to shew you the sandinesse of those grounds upon which you have banished your selfe from the fellowship of all the Churches in these Countreyes It is one thing to banish ones selfe or to be banished out of the fellowship of all the Churches in the Countrey another thing to banish ones selfe or to be banished out of the Countrey There be at this day that banish and separate themselves from all the Churches in the Countrey and yet are not banished out of the Countrey and there be that are banished out of the Countrey and yet are not banished out of the
worship and Gods worship was not to be put upon carnall persons as he conceived many of the People to be So by his Tenent neither might Church-members nor other godly men take the Oath because it was the establishment not of Christ but of mortall men in their office nor might men out of the Church take it because in his eye they were but carnall So the Court was forced to desist from that proceeding which practise of his was held to be the more dangerous because it tended to unsettle all the Kingdomes and Common-wealths in Europe These were as I tooke it the causes of his Banishment two other things fell in upon these that hastened the Sentence The former fell out thus The Magistrates discerning by the former passages the heady and turbulent spirit of Mr. Williams both they and others advised the Church of Salem not to call him to office in their Church neverthelesse the major part of the Church made choice of him Soone after when the Church made suit to the Court for a parcell of Land adjoyning to them the Court delayed to grant their Request as hath been mentioned before because the Church had refused to hearken to the Magistrates and others in forbearing the choice of Mr. Williams Whereupon Mr. Williams took occasion to stirre up the Church to joyne with him in writing Letters of Admonition unto all the Churches whereof those Magistrates were members to admonish them of their open transgression of the Rule of Justice Which Letters coming to the severall Churches provoked the Magistrates to take the more speedy course with so heady and violent a Spirit But to prevent his sufferings if it might be it was mooved by some of the Elders that themselves might have liberty according to the Rule of Christ to deale with him and with the Church also in a Church-way It might be the Church might heare us and he the Church which being consented to some of our Churches wrote to the Church of Salem to present before them the offensive Spirit and way of their Officer Mr. Williams both in Judgement and Practise The Church finally began to hearken to us and accordingly began to addresse themselves to the healing of his Spirit Which he discerning renounced communion with the Church of Salem pretending they held communion with the Churches in the Bay and the Churches in the Bay held communion with the Parish-Churches in England because they suffered their members to heare the word amongst them in England as they came over into their native Countrey He then refusing to resort to the Publick Assembly of the Church Soone after sundry began to resort to his Family where he preached to them on the Lords day But this carriage of his in renouncing the Church upon such an occasion and with them all the Churches in the Countrey and the spreading of his Leaven to sundry that resorted to him this gave the Magistrates the more cause to observe the heady unruelinesse of his spirit and the incorrigiblenesse thereof by any Church-way all the Churches in the Countrey being then renounced by him And this was the other occasion which hastened the Sentence of his Banishment upon the former Grounds If upon these Grounds Mr. Williams be ready as he professeth not onely to be bound and banished but also to dye in New-England let him remember what he knowes Non poena sed causa facit Martyrem No Martyr of Christ did ever suffer for such a cause When he feareth not to professe that he did in open Court maintaine the rocky strength of his grounds to the satisfaction of his own and as he saith of other mens Consciences I can but wonder at the rocky flintinesse of his selfe-confidence To give a taste of the rocky strength of his maintenance of these things He made complaint in open Court that he was wronged by a slanderous report up and downe the Countrey as if he did hold it to be unlawfull for a Father to call upon his childe to eate his meate Our reverend Brother Mr. Hooker the Pastor of the Church where the Court was then kept being mooved to speake a word to it Why saith he you will say as much againe if you stand to your own Principles or be forced to say nothing When Mr. Williams was confident he should never say it Mr. Hooker replyed If it be unlawfull to call an unregenerate person to take an Oath or to Pray as being actions of Gods worship then it is unlawfull for your unregenerate childe to pray for a blessing upon his own meate If it be unlawfull for him to pray for a blessing upon his meate it is unlawfull for him to eate it for it is sanctified by prayer and without prayer unsanctified 1 Tim. 4.4 5. If it be unlawfull for him to eate it it is unlawfull for you to call upon him to eate it for it is unlawfull for you to call upon him to sinne Here Mr. Williams thought better to hold his peace then to give an Answer But thus have I opened the grounds and occasions of his Civill Banishment which whether they be sandy or rocky let the servants of Christ judge Howsoever my Letter gave him no occasion at all to put me upon this Discourse for in my Letter I intended only to shew him the sandinesse of those grounds upon which he banished himselfe from the society not of the Common-wealth but of all the Churches in these Countreyes But whether I intended the one or the other he giveth an Answer for both If Mr Cotton meane saith he my own voluntary withdrawing from all these Churches resolved to continue in those evills and in persecuting the witnesses of the Lord presenting light unto them I confesse it was mine own voluntary act yea I hope the act of the Lord Jesus sounding forth in me a poore despised Rams-horne the blast which shall in his own holy season cast down the strength and confidence of the Inventions of men in the worship of God and lastly his act in inabling me to be faithfull in any measure to suffer such great and mightie Tryalls for his Names sake Reply That I meant onely his own act in withdrawing himselfe from these Churches doth plainly enough appeare both from my expresse words and fro mthe Reasons which I expresly assigne of that act of his which I called the sandy grounds upon which he built his Separation My expresse words are He had banished himselfe from the society of all the Churches in this Countrey The society of the Church is one thing the society of the Common-wealth is another And the Grounds upon which he built his Separation were not the causes of his banishment but of his withdrawing from the society of the Churches But if I so meant He confesseth it was his own voluntary act and professeth also it was a double act of the Lord Jesus in him The ground which he giveth of his own voluntary act was because these Churches were resolved
against my person which might weaken the fruit of my counsell to him I told him I had not hasted forward the sentence of his Civill Banishment and that what was done by the Magistrates in that kinde was neither done by my Counsell nor consent Whereto he answereth first That he observeth I cannot but confesse that it is hard for any man to doe good or to speake effectually to the soule or Conscience of any whose body he afflicteth and persecuteth and that onely for their soule and Conscience sake Reply All that can truely be observed from my words is That it is hard for any to take good from those against whom they have conceived a prejudice whether justly or unjustly But when he subjoyneth a Serpentine that is a subtile and venomous insinuation as if I had afflicted and persecuted his body and that onely for his soule and Conscience sake Answ I have been so farre from afflicting or persecuting his body especially for his soule or conscience sake that in very truth whilest I had any hope of prevailing for him I may say as David said for himselfe against a like slander Psal 7.3 4. I have sought to deliver him who without cause reproacheth me Let not Mr. Williams please himselfe as he doth in this Paragraph in comparing the dealing of the Elders with him here to the Persecutions of the Bishops against the godly Preachers in England If the Bishops had dealt no worse with the godly Preachers there and upon no more unjust causes then the Elders dealt with him here they might with good conscience and good countenance have looked with comfort and confidence both God and man in the face even now when God hath laid their carnall pompe and worldly honour in the dust Neither let him please himselfe as he doth in the next Paragraph in his undoubted Assertion That what Mr. Cotton and others did in procuring his sorrowes was not without some regret and reluctancy of Conscience and affection as David in procuring Uriah's death or Asa in imprisoning the Prophet For neither was he so innocent as was Vriah and that Prophet nor had my selfe the like hand in his sufferings as David and Asa had in the other nor did I ever see cause of regret and reluctancy of conscience for any act of mine own about his sufferings Onely I confesse I had as he saith some regret and reluctancy of affection and of compassion to see one who had received from God stirring and usefull gifts to bestirre himselfe so busily and eagerly to abuse them to the disturbance of himselfe his family the Churches and the Common-wealth That I consented not to his Banishment he in part admitteth For what need was there saith he of that being not one of the Civill Court As if I might not have consented to it though I needed not to have done it I might have drawn up Articles against him I might have come in as a witnesse against him I might have solicited and stirred up the body of the Magistrates against him to rid the countrey of him and then I had consented before-hand to what was done by the Magistrates in that kinde though my selfe had been none of the Court but none of all these acts nor any such like were done by me But be it that I consented not yet I counselled it and so consented and to prove that he saith He will produce a double and unanswerable Testimony for it First That I publickly taught and still doe Teach except lately Christ hath taught me better that body-killing soule-killing and State-killing Doctrine of Persecuting all other Consciences and wayes of worship but mine own in the Civill State and consequently in the whole world if the Power or Empire thereof were in mine hand Reply Were it not that I have learned from the word of truth that when men are cast out of the Church of Christ they are delivered up unto Satan and so neither their wits nor their tongues are their own I could not easily have beleeved that Mr. Williams could so confidently and openly have avouched such a notorious slander Since the Lord taught me to know any thing what conscience or the worship of God meant it hath been my constant judgement and doctrine and practise to the contrary Besides To teach the killing of the bodies of all such Consciences and wayes of worship as are not mine own is to make mine own conscience and way of worship the infallible Rule and soveraigne Standard by which all consciences and wayes of worship throughout the world were to be regulated yea and as if this were a light measure of arrogancy and usurpation I make it a capitall crime a body-killing offence for any man to swerve from my conscience and way of worship even in such Points wherein the Holy Ghost hath given expresse charge that we should not judge nor condemne one another Rom. 14.3 But I durst appeale even unto the conscience of Mr. Williams himselfe if it were now in the gracious keeping of Christ or of himselfe as in former times that himselfe knoweth I doe not thinke it lawfull to Excommunicate an Heretick much lesse to persecute him with the civill Sword till it may appeare even by just and full conviction that he sinneth not out of conscience but against the very light of his own conscience Sure I am such a Point he reporteth is received from me to the very same purpose and he reporteth it truely in his Bloudy Tenent pag. 8. This Answer may suffice to his first as he calleth it unanswerable Testimony His second unanswerable Testimony is That some Gentlemen that did consent to his Sentence have solemnly testified and with teares since confessed to himselfe that they could not in their soules have been brought to have consented to the Sentence of his Banishment had not Mr. Cotton in private given them advice and counsell proving it just and warrantable to their Consciences Reply I might here justly plead the equitie of the Romane Custome to excuse my selfe from this accusation untill the accusers come before me face to face And truely if Apocryphall witnesses may goe for unanswerable Testimonies it is an easie matter to oppresse any innocency I might also plead the incompetency of such a witnesse as haply lying under some censure from our Church and removing himselfe from our fellowship might take more liberty to speake against me in a pang of passion what he would be loath to justifie in cold bloud I might likewise alledge that one or two Magistrates makes not a Court nor was his Sentence cast by the vote of one or two So that if I had counselled one or two to it it would not argue that the act of the Magistrates and of the Deputies which is the body of the Court had been done by my counsell or consent And indeed it was the very true meaning of my speech that for the hastening of the Sentence of the Court against Mr. Williams that act of the
for this cause because we doe not separate these English hearers from us he separated himselfe and withdre others from hearing the word in our Churches with us which I accounted as great and as unsufferable an injury to the soules of Gods people as it would be to their bodies to withhold the Corne from them or them from the Corne and for that end I produced this Scripture That I produced this Scripture alone to justifie the Sentence of the Court it was not for want of others if that had been the Question but because the scope of my Letter was not to confirme the equitie of his Banishment but to convince the iniquitie of his Separation The mention of the cause of his civill Banishment fell in onely upon the by to remove an objection out of the way that because I denied the act of the Court to be done by my counsell or consent therefore it might seeme I disallowed the sentence To prevent that mistake I acknowledged the righteousnesse of the Sentence and for that end produced that Scripture as that which might give both some just reason before God of his Civill Banishment and also make way for the discovery of his sinne of groundlesse Separation Let no man be so farre mistaken as to thinke that his Separation from the Churches was either the chiefe difference between the Court and him though it was the chiefe between him and me in my Letter or that it was the chiefest offence for which he suffered though he so pretended What though neither corporall nor spirituall food may lawfully be sold or bought but with the good will and consent and authoritie of the owner c. Let him make it appeare that Christ hath not committed the Ministery of the Gospel to us and wee shall give place to others whom Christ shall send Meane while if the budding and blossoming and fruit-bearing of Aarons rod was a witnesse from Heaven that the Lord approved his Ministery against all the murmurings of the Children of Israel Num. 17.5 to 8. We must leave him and others to their murmurings against us and quiet our conscices in an humble blessing of the Lord for his gracious blessing upon our weake labours in that holy Ministery wee have received from him What though the Apostles were to turne away and to shake off the dust of their feete against scorners contradictors despisers persecutors It was not till they had sinned against the Holy Ghost and scorned and persecuted the convincing light of the Gospel Acts 13.45 to 51. Otherwise the Jewes were scorners and persecutors of Christ himselfe and of all that confessed his Name Joh. 9.22 yet still the Apostles ceased not to Preach to them and pray with them Acts 3.1 c. to wit whilest their Persecutors sinned of ignorance ver 17. What though the Apostles were forbidden to Preach to some places He wisely quoteth no Text for it lest the quoting might be the confuting of himselfe He knoweth it was but for a time that others according to the good pleasure of Christs will might be served before them What if Mr. Cotton saw just cause to refuse to sell spirituall Corne in a mis-hallowed Surplice Is it safe therefore for Mr. Williams to shut up his sacks mouth and to refuse to sell corne in his ordinary apparrell What if Mr. Cotton forbeare to administer the Lords Supper to all beleevers or Baptisme unto their children untill the beleevers professe their Faith and Repentance before the Church Is it safe therefore for Mr. Williams to refuse to Breake the Bread of Life unto the Church of Salem whereunto their Election and Ordination of him and his own voluntary acceptance thereof had engaged him unto stuwardly office What though in all Civill Transactions and in all the present disturbances of England principall respect is had unto a right Commission and right Order Let him shew wherein our Commission or Order is defective and reason would we should hearken to him But see the warinesse and slinesse of the Examiner I judge it not saith he seasonable here to entertaine the Dispute of the true Power and call of Christs Ministery An handsome evasion Now when the grounds of his Separation are questioned now when he standeth upon his open justification now in Print before the eyes of all men now he thinketh it not seasonable to entertaine any dispute of such things at all Thus Foelix would heare Paul when he had a more convenient time and yet that was the very time and houre of his visitation Acts 24.25 His evasion of this Text in Prov. 11.26 by comparing it with Deut. 17.12 doth but adde a delusion to an evasion Deut. 17. I suppose he meaneth though his printed copie say Deut. 15. For it is a delusion to make the capitall punishment prescribed against the presumptuous rejection of the Sentence of the chiefest Court in Israel a figure of Excommunication in the Church of Christ For first no Scripture of old or new Testament giveth any intimation of any such figure in this Law And to make a judiciall Law a figure without some light from some Scripture is to make a mans selfe wise above that which is written 2. That law is of morall equitie that is of universall and perpetuall equitie in all Nations in all Ages He that shall presumptuously appeale from or rise up against the sentence of the chiefest and highest Court in a free State is guilty Laesae majestatis publicae and therfore as a capitall offender to be censured in any free Common-wealth 3. This Law in Deut. 17. provided an effectuall punishment against such presumptuous offenders and an effectuall remedy against all such like presumption in others that all Israel might heare and feare and doe no more presumptuously ver 13. But so doth not Excommunication For what if an Excommunicate person presume against the sentence of Christ in his Church as Mr. Williams doth against the Sentence of the Church of Salem doth the power of the Church provide that all the Israel of God may heare and feare and doe no more presumptuously Is the figure become more powerfull and effectuall then the substance the shadow then the body the type then the Antitype From this mistaken Figure the Examiner would inferre The withholding of the Corne presumptuously to be death in Israel but not so in every State of the world much lesse the pleading against a false Ministery to be a capitall crime for as for Banishment never such a course was heard of in Israel Answ That law in Deut. hath nothing to doe with the withholding of Corne presumptuously unlesse there had first passed some sentence of the Soveraigne Court against the withholding of Corne. But otherwise ordinary sinnes of presumption doe fall under the Judicature of another Law Num. 15.30 31. Neither hath this Text in Solomons Proverbs any thing to doe with that Law in Deut. 17. nor with capitall punishment Solomon doth not say that every man that withholdeth his corne
shape of an Answer but as little substance The greatest Question here saith he would be whether the Corinthians in their first Constitution were separate or no from such Idols Temples And this Mr. Cotton neither doth nor can deny A Church estate being a state of marriage unto Christ Jesus and so Paul professedly saith He had espoused them as a chaste Virgin unto Christ 2 Cor. 11. Reply 1. To put any substance into this Answer or any force pertinent to the cause in hand it must be no great Question but cleare out of Question that these Corinthians in their first constitution were cleane and absolutely separate from such Idolls Temples and that not onely locally but in their soule and iudgement minde and heart utterly cut off from such uncleane Touches so that they both undoubtedly saw the evill thereof and from their hearts abhorred it and forsooke it For all these Acts of coming off in a way of separation from the Churches of England he requireth from us as absolutely necessary to enter into a true Church-estate Now if he thinke that Mr. Cotton to use his words neither doth nor can deny that in their first constitution they were thus separate from Idolls Temples I must professe though not to him yet to all that love and seek the Truth without prejudice that I both can and doe deny it that in their first constitution they were locally separate from Idolls Temples it is likely enough or else I suppose the Apostlewould have admonished them thereof in their first Plantation But that in their minde and judgement they saw the evill thereof and did in heart and soule bewaile it and confesse it before the Apostle and their Brethren and so enter into solemne Covenant expresly against it this is altogether incredible to me For would not the Apostle then out of his faithfulnesse have reproved them as well for their Apostacy as for their Fellowship in Idolatry Would he not as well have rebuked the prevarication of their Covenant as their pollution of their communion with Pagans What though a Church-estate be a state of Marriage unto Jesus Christ May not a married Spouse of Christ be ignorant of some part of her marriage-dutie towards him And what though Paul professe He had espoused them as a chaste Virgin to Jesus Christ May not he call them a chaste Virgin who had seene and bewailed their former worship of Idolls though they neither bewailed nor saw the evill of feasting with their neighbours in Idolls Temples Reply 2. Though the Examiner make it a great Question whether a Church can be truely constituted that in her first constitution is not seperate from all uncleane Touches so as both to see them and come out of them howsoever they may fall into such sinnes afterwards yet I looke at it as an ungrounded distinction to require more purity to the being of a Church in her first constitution then is necessary to the being of it after it is constituted I should thinke the longer a Church hath enjoyed communion with the Lord Jesus Christ the more shee ought to grow both in knowledge and purity Where more hath been given the more will be required of the Lord. Yea I conceive it more agreeable to the word of Truth that God will sooner separate from a Church constituted for their whorish pollutions then deny them Church-estate for the like pollutions in their first constitution The people of Israel were not constituted a Nationall Church till the Lord gave them Nationall Ordinances and Nationall Officers and entered them together into a Nationall Covenant Exod. 19.5 6. Their Church-estate before was rather domesticall dispersed into severall Families When they were thus constituted a Nationall Church and afterwards fell into an Idolatrous crime the Lord directed Moses to breake the Tables of his Covenant between them and did also seperate his Tabernacle from them till upon their repentance he renewed communion with them Exod. 32.19 with Exod. 33.3 to 7. But yet the like Idolatry if not worse being found in the same People when they dwelt in Aegypt it did not hinder the Lord from accepting them unto a Nationall Constitution of a Church-estate To CHAP. XVII XVIII XIX HIs 17 18 19. Chapters are taken up in Examining and Answering my Answers to his second Objection which he made to prove a Necessitie lying upon Godly men before they can be fit matter for Church fellowship to see bewaile repent and come out of false Churches Ministery Worship and Government To prove which his first Objection or Argument was taken from Isaiah 52.11 2 Cor. 6.14 15 16. Whereto we have returned a Reply in the former Chapters His second Objection was taken from the Confession made by Johns Disciples and the Proselyte Gentiles before admission into Church-fellowship Mat. 3.6 Act 19.18 Whence he gathered That Christian Churcher are constituted of such members as make open and plaine confession of their sinnes and if any sâ—â—â—es be to be confessed and lamented Jewish or Paganish then Antichristian drunkennesse and whoredome much more c. Yea every sipping of the Whâ—res Cup. To which Objection of his to passe by all verball velitations for I love not to take up time about words the substance of my Answer was two-fold 1. That it was not necessary to the Admission of members that they should see and bewaile the sinfulnesse of every sipping of the whores Cup as he called it though the Whores cup doe more intoxicate the minde then the drunkards Cup doth the Body because bodily drunkennesse and whoredome are such notorious and grosse sinnes that no man having true Repentance in him cannot but be convinced of the sinfulnesse of them and of the necessitie of repentance of them in particular if he doe remember them But the whores Cup being a mystery of Iniquitie the sinfulnesse of every sipping of it is nothing so evident and notorious as that every repentant soule doth at first discerne it And therefore as the 3000. Converts Acts 2.37 to 47. were admitted into the first Christian Church upon the Profession of their repentance of the murther of Christ though they neither saw nor confessed all the superstitious leavenings wherewith the Pharisees had bewitched them so here c. Yea and the Disciples of John whom he instanceth in though they did confesse their sinnes the Publicans theirs the Souldiers theirs the People theirs to wit the notorious sinnes incident to their callings yet it doth not appeare that they confessed their Pharisaicall pollutions And the Gentiles in Act. 19.18.19 Though they confessed their curious Arts and burnt their conjuring Bookes yet it doth not appeare that they confessed all their deeds Whereunto the Examiner returneth a two-fold Answer 1. That spirituall whoredome and drunkennesse is not indeed so easily discerned as corporall but yet not the lesse sinfull but infinitely transeendent as much as spirituall sobriety exceedeth corporall and the bed of the most High God exceedeth the beds of men who are but
to professe separation which crosseth not what I said for it might be so and yet I knew not of it unlesse the profession had been more publick Nor did I ever perceive that they refused communion with us when any of them came over to us If they were publickly reproached for separation it was more then I heard of till I read it in his Booke And for any publick punishment that Salem suffered for it I may well say it was implicitly if at all for surely there is no Law of the Countrey that punisheth such an offence it her explicitly or implicitly But since he is pleased to conceale it I see no cause of giving account of it Nextly He takes up from me a Confession of two things which he leaveth to me to reconcile 1. That I say if any reproach them for Seperation it is a sinne meete to be Censured 2. That Churches themselves may be separated from who tolerate their members in such causelesse reproachings Reply It is true that I doe not account reproaches which are a worke of the flesh a meete remedy to heale an error And therefore the reproacher meete to be delt withall either by private admonition if it were publick But the latter of the two things which he saith I confesse I am farre from either confessing it or beleeving it to wit That the Churches themselves may be separated from who tolerate their members in such causelesse reproachings I said indeed that a causelesse reproach is a sinne meete to be censured But I said withall it is not to be censured with so deepe a Censure as excommunication especially of all the Churches and that too before that it doe appeare that they doe tolerate their members in such their causelesse reproachings But it may be he will say doth it not imply that if it doth appeare that they doe tolerate their members in such causelesse reproaches that then I thinke they are to be separated from Answ No verily Put it in a like case Suppose a childe should miscall and revile his Mothers Sister I might say it is a fault meete to be corrected yet not with so deepe a correction as to be disinherited or that his Mother should be dispossessed of her inheritance before it doe appeare that she doe tolerate her childe in such revilings Would such a speech inferre that in case it did appeare his Mother did tolerate him that then his Mother were to be dispossessed of her inheritance The true meaning of my speech was to expresse that such a sinne as reproaching of a Church for a sin might deserve a Censure yet not forthwith excommunication much lesse the Church to be excommunicated whereof such an one is a member and least of all before it did appeare that the Church knew of it or did tolerate it The scope of my speech was not to hold forth the grievous desert of a reproach but the groundlesse proceeding unto separation for a reproach both against a member and against the Church that tolerated him without any further conviction or obstinacy which was the case in hand of Mr. Williams Some body he saith reproached the Church of Salem for separation some member of some Church But what member of what Church he saith not And yet this is one of the stumbling blocks that turned him out of the way of communion with all the Churches in the Countrey who for ought I know never heard of it unto this day Let him now say that mine owne confessions are sufficient Answers to my selfe as if I granted that in case the member had been knowne who so reproached Salem and the Church knowne whereof he was a member That then there were a lawfull separation from the Church that doth but tolerate her member in a causelesse reproach yea and from all other Churches too that hold Communion with that Church For he is not ignorant more goeth to a separation then so unlesse he hath forgotten the principles and rudiments of Church-Government He confesseth that to be true which I said That it is not Chirurgery but Butchery to heale every sore with no other medicine but with Abscission from the body But yet as if he could make mine own expressions confutations of my selfe he saith that I have confessed that which indeed is not my confession but my collection of his Argugument That Churches of godly persons must be separated from for inordinate worldlinesse If this be a Contradiction it is his and not mine as I shewed above neither doe I own any such confession as mine which he subjoyneth That Churches may be separated from when they tolerate their members in their causelesse reproaches It seemeth he thinketh I neither remember mine own words nor know any Church-Censure but Excommunication He proceedeth to tell us his judgement in so waighty a case as excommunication or separation is It is not saith he every sore of infirmitie or ignorance but an Vlcer or Gangreene of obstinacy for which I maintained that a person ought to be cut off or a Church separated from I know not how this judgement of his may satisfie his neighbours but a good Conscience willing to walke by rule would still inquire where it was meete First whether every obstinacy even before conviction and that in a sinne lesse hainous be such an ulcer or Gangrene for which either a person ought to be cut off or a Church separated from For there is an obstinacy against a good way as there is a scorning of a good way which is before conviction even of ignorance and to these Wisdome communicateth good Counsell Prov. 1.20.22 But there is a scorning and so an obstinacy after conviction and to such Wisdome refuseth to communicate any wholesome words Prov. 9.8 9. If he meane the former why did he refuse communion with us upon such an obstinacy of ignorance By what rule did he proceede If he meane the latter let him produce his cause and bring forth all his strong reasons whereby he did so much as offer to convince us of our obstinacy in any crime and we will acknowledge his separation to be just and our sinne to be great in not hearkening to him If he tell us againe as he doth in the next words as indeed the mouth is most full of the aboundance of the heart if he tell us againe of our guiltinesse of cruelty both against consciences and bodies in persecuting of them wee must needs tell him againe that neither himselfe nor any others that I can heare off did ever suffer any Censure which he calleth cruelty to consciences and bodies till after his separation from all the Churches in the Countrey And though he saith in the next words He separated Conscientiously and peaceably Yet did ever peaceable Conscience before him separate from Churches for an offence before it was committed If he tell us he separated for our communion with the Churches of England in hearing the word in the Parishes there let all that feare God whose