spirit_a man_n and_o of_o the_o vulgar_a and_o all_o kind_n of_o spirit_n but_o before_o i_o leave_v this_o passage_n of_o you_o concern_v the_o separation_n pray_v let_v i_o ask_v you_o the_o reason_n of_o this_o parenthesis_n and_o to_o who_o you_o speak_v it_o who_o you_o call_v brownist_n and_o why_o can_v you_o not_o have_v write_v who_o be_v common_o call_v brownist_n be_v it_o not_o to_o both_o the_o house_n of_o parliament_n to_o who_o this_o apology_n be_v present_v and_o to_o who_o you_o appeal_v your_o discourse_n be_v carry_v as_o speak_v to_o they_o and_o do_v not_o this_o phrase_n of_o speech_n carry_v with_o it_o a_o secret_a check_n of_o the_o house_n for_o call_v the_o separatist_n brownist_n call_v they_o so_o as_o you_o will_v not_o call_v they_o but_o who_o be_v you_o that_o you_o may_v not_o speak_v for_o so_o much_o as_o concern_v this_o in_o the_o language_n of_o both_o house_n if_o both_o house_n call_v they_o brownist_n why_o may_v not_o you_o five_o term_v 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their_o desire_n for_o instance_n how_o be_v a_o story_n with_o the_o apologist_n practise_v upon_o it_o pag._n 16_o 17_o 20_o 21._o bring_v to_o prove_v the_o effectual_a success_n of_o submission_n and_o non-communion_n how_o be_v their_o good_a carriage_n since_o their_o return_n into_o england_n and_o their_o exile_n make_v use_v of_o to_o move_v for_o a_o toleration_n how_o be_v all_o that_o narration_n of_o 3_o 4_o 〈◊〉_d page_n of_o their_o enquiry_n into_o the_o word_n of_o christ_n etc._n etc._n lay_v down_o as_o so_o many_o ground_n to_o possess_v the_o reader_n of_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o church_n way_n let_v the_o apologetical_a narration_n be_v analize_v and_o it_o will_v be_v find_v there_o be_v no_o point_n of_o fact_n or_o personal_a thing_n in_o it_o but_o be_v bring_v in_o some_o way_n or_o other_o as_o a_o motive_n or_o argument_n for_o their_o way_n so_o that_o of_o necessity_n i_o can_v not_o avoid_v matter_n of_o fact_n unless_o i_o will_v betray_v the_o truth_n 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the_o parliament_n and_o to_o draw_v the_o reader_n to_o their_o way_n and_o be_v not_o the_o disprove_v of_o they_o argumentative_a against_o it_o if_o this_o be_v not_o argumentative_a against_o independency_n than_o i_o be_o sure_a the_o great_a part_n of_o the_o apologet._n narration_n be_v nothing_o material_a for_o it_o and_o wherâ—…fore_o then_o be_v that_o story_n of_o a_o minister_n depose_v and_o matter_n of_o fact_n upon_o it_o insert_v in_o the_o narration_n with_o many_o other_o and_o suppose_v that_o to_o be_v true_a that_o there_o be_v no_o reason_n from_o the_o quality_n of_o the_o person_n to_o his_o cause_n why_o then_o do_v you_o so_o much_o do_v it_o in_o your_o apology_n take_v all_o occasion_n to_o magnify_v your_o party_n and_o reason_v from_o your_o person_n to_o your_o cause_n from_o your_o suffering_n patience_n etc._n etc._n but_o whether_o there_o be_v any_o strength_n or_o no_o in_o that_o it_o matter_n not_o it_o be_v strong_o argumentative_a in_o any_o 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lie_n but_o untrue_a and_o this_o be_v not_o so_o whereas_o m._n sympson_n in_o his_o pamphlet_n use_v false_o and_o have_v the_o word_n lie_v 2._o i_o desire_v the_o conscientious_a indisterent_fw-la reader_n to_o consider_v my_o book_n be_v not_o a_o treatise_n or_o tractate_n upon_o what_o subject_n i_o please_v to_o speak_v of_o but_o a_o answer_n and_o so_o must_v follow_v where_o that_o lead_v i_o &_o speak_v to_o that_o 2._o it_o be_v a_o answer_n to_o a_o book_n full_a of_o matter_n of_o fact_n and_o story_n of_o the_o author_n themselves_o so_o that_o i_o can_v answer_v without_o particularising_a the_o truth_n can_v be_v evidence_v to_o the_o reader_n without_o come_v somewhat_o to_o particular_n 〈◊〉_d the_o book_n contain_v matter_n of_o high_a praise_n of_o themselves_o and_o their_o party_n a_o few_o inconsiderable_a person_n comparative_o with_o many_o close_a indirect_a and_o dangerous_a insinuation_n against_o all_o the_o reform_a church_n which_o can_v be_v answer_v particular_o without_o some_o recrimination_n and_o charge_n 4._o there_o be_v many_o particular_n in_o matter_n of_o fact_n i_o prove_v and_o charge_v the_o apologist_n with_o and_o some_o too_o bad_a for_o untruth_n 5._o i_o forbear_v menâ—…oning_v the_o name_n of_o many_o particular_a person_n which_o this_o apology_n lead_v i_o unto_o some_o whole_o other_o i_o speak_v of_o only_a under_o the_o 〈◊〉_d letter_n of_o their_o name_n and_o for_o the_o apologist_n though_o i_o often_o particular_o name_v they_o yet_o in_o some_o place_n of_o my_o book_n and_o in_o some_o grosser_n thing_n i_o forbear_v particularise_v they_o too_o 6._o i_o meddle_v not_o with_o personal_a thing_n and_o matter_n of_o fact_n that_o be_v heterogeneal_a to_o relate_v other_o kind_n of_o fact_n and_o practice_n which_o i_o have_v hear_v on_o know_v of_o any_o the_o apologist_n but_o speak_v only_o of_o such_o as_o be_v proper_a to_o the_o matter_n occasion_v from_o their_o apology_n or_o the_o effect_n and_o 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far_o from_o be_v write_v out_o of_o any_o malice_n or_o ill_a will_n to_o the_o apologist_n that_o i_o love_v their_o person_n and_o value_v they_o as_o brethren_n yea_o some_o of_o they_o above_o brethren_n and_o beside_o that_o love_n i_o bear_v to_o they_o as_o saint_n i_o have_v a_o personal_a love_n and_o a_o particular_a love_n of_o friendship_n to_o some_o of_o they_o and_o i_o can_v true_o speak_v it_o that_o i_o write_v not_o this_o book_n nor_o any_o part_n of_o it_o out_o of_o any_o personal_a quarrel_n old_a grudge_n or_o former_a difference_n for_o to_o this_o day_n there_o never_o be_v any_o such_o difference_n or_o unkindness_n pass_v between_o we_o but_o i_o have_v write_v it_o with_o much_o sorrow_n unwillingness_n and_o some_o kind_n of_o conflict_n in_o respect_n of_o that_o old_a personal_a love_n and_o friendship_n still_o strong_a in_o i_o
of_o dort_n and_o unto_o ostensum_fw-la vedelius_fw-la de_fw-la episcopatu_fw-la constantini_n magni_fw-la who_o as_o all_o man_n know_v give_v in_o that_o book_n power_n enough_o to_o magistrate_n in_o ecclesiastical_n yet_o he_o lay_v down_o at_o large_a that_o as_o the_o anabaptist_n and_o socinian_o follow_v the_o donatist_n give_v too_o little_a to_o the_o magistrate_n so_o the_o arminian_n do_v offend_v in_o the_o excess_n for_o before_o the_o synod_n of_o dort_n they_o contend_v that_o under_o the_o orthodox_n magistrate_n the_o church_n have_v of_o itself_o no_o spiritual_a power_n the_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n do_v perform_v their_o office_n in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o magistrate_n so_o that_o the_o magistrate_n because_o he_o for_o other_o business_n can_v not_o preach_v etc._n etc._n he_o do_v preach_v by_o the_o minister_n they_o give_v the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n to_o the_o magistrate_n alone_o they_o give_v the_o call_n of_o minister_n and_o their_o depose_n to_o the_o magistrate_n alone_o with_o many_o other_o such_o but_o afâ—…er_v the_o synod_n they_o deny_v it_o be_v their_o right_n and_o office_n to_o oblige_v man_n by_o their_o authority_n to_o the_o decree_n of_o synod_n however_o agreeable_a to_o the_o word_n or_o to_o use_v any_o coactive_a power_n in_o that_o case_n etc._n etc._n in_o which_o they_o take_v away_o as_o much_o from_o the_o magistrate_n as_o in_o other_o thing_n they_o seem_v to_o give_v and_o it_o may_v be_v fear_v however_o these_o apologist_n now_o to_o ingratiate_v themselves_o and_o be_v leave_v alone_o in_o their_o churchway_n say_v they_o give_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n than_o the_o presbyterial_a and_o that_o they_o profess_v to_o submit_v and_o to_o be_v most_o willing_a to_o have_v recourse_n to_o the_o magistrate_n judgement_n and_o cognizance_n and_o examination_n of_o ecclesiastical_a cause_n yet_o when_o they_o shall_v come_v once_o to_o be_v cross_v and_o the_o parliament_n by_o the_o advice_n of_o the_o assembly_n to_o settle_v the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n and_o by_o their_o authority_n to_o bind_v they_o to_o the_o thing_n agreeable_a to_o the_o word_n we_o shall_v see_v then_o what_o they_o will_v say_v of_o the_o magistrate_n power_n there_o be_v too_o many_o speech_n already_o since_o the_o meeting_n of_o the_o assembly_n out_o of_o their_o fear_n how_o thing_n may_v go_v which_o have_v fall_v from_o many_o independent_o that_o prognosticate_n they_o will_v do_v by_o the_o parliament_n as_o the_o remonstrant_n do_v after_o the_o synod_n of_o dort_n by_o the_o state_n 2._o but_o whatever_o you_o say_v here_o that_o you_o think_v you_o give_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n than_o the_o principle_n suffragamur_fw-la of_o the_o presbyterian_a government_n will_v suffer_v they_o to_o yield_v i_o do_v much_o doubt_v it_o and_o do_v judge_v that_o in_o many_o thing_n you_o give_v no_o more_o in_o ecclesiastical_n then_o the_o presbyterian_o and_o in_o other_o you_o give_v less_o and_o they_o give_v more_o m._n robinson_n in_o his_o apology_n say_v of_o himself_o and_o his_o church_n that_o in_o the_o point_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n and_o his_o office_n they_o hold_v altogether_o the_o same_o thing_n which_o the_o belgic_a church_n do_v and_o that_o to_o their_o confession_n in_o this_o point_n they_o do_v ex_fw-la animo_fw-la agree_v now_o the_o belgic_a church_n be_v presbyterian_o and_o your_o churchway_n &_o m._n robinson_n differ_v not_o much_o â—…o_o that_o till_o you_o know_v what_o you_o give_v more_o to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n then_o m._n robinson_n and_o his_o church_n do_v i_o can_v believe_v you_o especial_o consider_v that_o m._n burroughes_n one_o of_o you_o in_o his_o lecture_n upon_o hosea_n speak_v of_o the_o power_n of_o magistrate_n in_o church_n affair_n veâ—…_n give_v no_o more_o to_o they_o then_o the_o rigide_a presbyterian_o namely_o that_o the_o king_n be_v supreme_a governor_n to_o govern_v in_o a_o civil_a way_n by_o civil_a law_n so_o as_o to_o sâ—…_n christ_n not_o dishonour_v so_o as_o to_o keep_v out_o idolatry_n to_o protect_v the_o church_n to_o punish_v enormitio_n that_o be_v there_o to_o define_v it_o from_o enemy_n in_o that_o sense_n he_o be_v say_v to_o be_v the_o head_n but_o that_o title_n of_o supreme_a governor_n be_v understand_v in_o a_o civil_a way_n be_v more_o proper_a now_o it_o be_v easy_a out_o of_o beza_n calvin_n zanchius_n and_o many_o presbyterian_o to_o show_v more_o power_n give_v to_o king_n by_o they_o in_o matter_n of_o religion_n then_o by_o m._n burroughes_n there_o so_o that_o i_o have_v more_o reason_n to_o judge_v of_o your_o principle_n by_o what_o m._n burroughes_n write_v particular_o and_o by_o way_n of_o answer_v doubt_n of_o conscience_n then_o from_o a_o narrration_n in_o general_a and_o from_o we_o think_v more_o than_o the_o principle_n of_o presbyterial_a government_n will_v suffer_v they_o to_o yield_v in_o other_o thing_n you_o give_v not_o so_o much_o to_o the_o magistrate_n as_o the_o presbyterian_o first_o whereas_o the_o a_o presbyterian_o do_v acknowledge_v the_o protestant_a prince_n and_o magistrate_n a_o eminent_a member_n of_o the_o church_n and_o in_o their_o great_a assembly_n and_o counsel_n give_v he_o a_o eminent_a place_n and_o power_n you_o according_a to_o your_o principle_n do_v not_o own_v he_o for_o a_o member_n of_o the_o church_n neither_o shall_v his_o child_n be_v admit_v to_o baptism_n nor_o he_o to_o the_o ordinance_n though_o a_o protestant_n and_o orthodox_n unless_o you_o account_v he_o a_o visible_a saint_n etc._n etc._n neither_o do_v you_o give_v he_o so_o much_o power_n or_o vote_n no_o not_o in_o a_o particular_a church_n in_o any_o church_n matter_n of_o censure_n admission_n election_n of_o officer_n etc._n etc._n as_o you_o do_v give_v to_o one_o of_o your_o serve_a man_n and_o the_o supreme_a magistrate_n and_o his_o child_n though_o bring_v up_o and_o profess_v the_o true_a religion_n may_v be_v and_o will_v be_v keep_v from_o the_o sacrament_n all_o their_o day_n 2._o the_o presbyterian_o give_v to_o the_o magistrate_n a_o coercive_a and_o coactive_a power_n to_o suppress_v heresy_n schism_n to_o correct_v troubler_n and_o unruly_a person_n in_o the_o church_n to_o tie_v and_o bind_v man_n by_o their_o authority_n to_o the_o decree_n of_o synod_n make_v according_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n which_o power_n as_o b_o voetius_fw-la show_n only_o the_o remonstrant_n with_o the_o libertine_n do_v not_o admit_v but_o all_o the_o presbyterian_o do_v reject_v such_o opinion_n that_o the_o magistrate_n can_v not_o by_o his_o stringere_fw-la authority_n bind_v and_o compel_v man_n to_o observe_v the_o decree_n of_o synod_n conformable_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n ordinem_fw-la now_o do_v you_o allow_v the_o magistrate_n such_o a_o power_n by_o your_o plead_n for_o toleration_n of_o religion_n and_o for_o liberty_n of_o conscience_n and_o that_o conscience_n be_v not_o to_o be_v tie_v and_o by_o your_o speak_n against_o imposition_n of_o thing_n lawful_a and_o agreeable_a to_o the_o word_n as_o set_v form_n of_o prayer_n decree_v by_o synod_n and_o such_o like_a it_o be_v very_o suspicious_a you_o allow_v not_o such_o a_o power_n to_o magistrate_n and_o your_o good_a friend_n â—…0_n m._n s._n in_o his_o answer_n to_o the_o observation_n and_o consideration_n upon_o your_o apologetical_a narration_n plead_v your_o cause_n deny_v and_o plead_v against_o this_o coercive_a power_n of_o the_o magistrate_n 3._o the_o presbyterian_o give_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o power_n to_o the_o supreme_a christian_a magistrate_n in_o the_o reformation_n of_o religion_n and_o in_o repair_v and_o build_v the_o house_n of_o god_n as_o may_v be_v show_v out_o of_o calvin_n zanchius_n peter_n martyr_n etc._n etc._n but_o whether_o the_o independent_o give_v as_o much_o when_o they_o allow_v private_a man_n to_o gather_v and_o make_v church_n and_o minister_n to_o do_v such_o public_a work_n and_o that_o without_o leave_n nay_o against_o the_o mind_n and_o law_n of_o the_o supreme_a magistrate_n i_o question_v there_o be_v a_o tractate_n in_o my_o hand_n about_o a_o church_n that_o go_v under_o the_o name_n of_o one_o of_o you_o wherein_o civil_a magistrate_n be_v cut_v off_o and_o minister_n too_o from_o have_v any_o power_n to_o make_v church_n and_o the_o immediate_a independent_a power_n from_o christ_n be_v give_v to_o the_o saint_n only_o to_o gather_v and_o combine_v themselves_o in_o such_o a_o assembly_n without_o expect_v warrant_n from_o any_o governor_n what_o soever_o upon_o earth_n saint_n as_o saint_n have_v a_o right_n and_o full_a power_n to_o cast_v themselves_o into_o the_o fellowship_n without_o ask_v the_o consent_n of_o governor_n and_o civil_a magistrate_n who_o have_v no_o power_n in_o the_o marriage_n of_o their_o people_n nor_o shall_v have_v it_o be_v a_o act_n of_o natural_a civil_a
i_o feign_v nothing_o nor_o witting_o misreport_n any_o thing_n no_o not_o in_o the_o least_o circumstance_n neither_o have_v i_o take_v up_o report_n light_o but_o what_o ever_o i_o affirm_v or_o assert_v in_o this_o answer_n i_o either_o have_v it_o from_o their_o own_o mouth_n or_o can_v show_v it_o in_o their_o own_o letter_n or_o in_o other_o manuscript_n or_o in_o some_o print_a book_n of_o man_n of_o their_o way_n and_o communion_n or_o else_o have_v receive_v it_o from_o credible_a person_n many_o of_o they_o ear_n witness_n and_o eye-witness_n upon_o the_o place_n all_o which_o witness_n be_v either_o learned_a godly_a judicious_a minister_n or_o else_o godly_a christian_n some_o their_o friend_n and_o familiar_n who_o have_v be_v among_o they_o and_o converse_v with_o they_o both_o in_o holland_n and_o england_n and_o i_o appeal_v to_o many_o of_o my_o reverend_a brethren_n in_o the_o ministry_n and_o to_o many_o godly_a christian_n and_o to_o the_o conscience_n of_o the_o author_n of_o this_o apology_n upon_o second_o thought_n and_o to_o their_o own_o follower_n and_o church-member_n whether_o all_o along_o i_o speak_v not_o the_o truth_n our_o ear_n have_v be_v of_o late_a so_o fill_v with_o a_o sudden_a unexpected_a apolog._n noise_n of_o confuse_a exclamation_n though_o not_o so_o express_o direct_v against_o we_o in_o particular_a yet_o in_o the_o interpretation_n of_o the_o most_o reflect_v on_o we_o that_o awaken_v thereby_o we_o be_v enforce_v to_o anticipate_v a_o little_a that_o discovery_n of_o ourselves_o which_o otherwise_o we_o resolve_v to_o have_v leave_v to_o time_n and_o experience_n of_o our_o way_n and_o spirit_n the_o true_a discoverer_n and_o sure_a judge_n of_o all_o man_n and_o their_o action_n you_o make_v the_o ground_n and_o occasion_n of_o set_v forth_o this_o apologetical_a narration_n now_o to_o be_v your_o ear_n of_o late_a so_o fill_v with_o a_o sudden_a and_o unexpected_a noise_n of_o confuse_a exclamation_n interpretative_o reflect_v on_o you_o it_o will_v hardly_o be_v believe_v by_o wise_a man_n that_o such_o man_n as_o you_o shall_v make_v such_o a_o apology_n and_o that_o in_o such_o a_o juncture_n of_o time_n the_o assembly_n sit_v and_o be_v upon_o discipline_n and_o you_o member_n of_o it_o upon_o so_o weak_a and_o slight_a ground_n as_o a_o sudden_a and_o unexpected_a noise_n of_o confuse_a exclamation_n come_v to_o your_o ear_n which_o as_o they_o be_v soon_o raise_v so_o be_v they_o as_o soon_o go_v and_o often_o die_v of_o themselves_o and_o by_o wise_a man_n nothing_o more_o slight_v especial_o be_v sudden_a and_o confuse_a if_o other_o of_o your_o brethren_n who_o swim_v not_o with_o the_o stream_n of_o the_o time_n and_o be_v not_o the_o darling_n of_o the_o people_n shall_v upon_o every_o occasion_n of_o their_o ear_n fill_v with_o a_o sudden_a and_o unexpected_a noise_n of_o confuse_a exclamation_n even_o when_o they_o be_v express_o direct_v against_o they_o and_o not_o only_o in_o interpretation_n reflect_v on_o they_o write_v apology_n and_o make_v defence_n they_o shall_v judge_v they_o have_v little_a to_o do_v and_o may_v have_v fill_v city_n and_o country_n with_o apology_n before_o now_o there_o be_v who_o will_v not_o be_v persuade_v but_o be_v induce_v rather_o to_o think_v there_o be_v other_o motive_n and_o ground_n of_o your_o writing_n that_o apology_n at_o that_o time_n and_o the_o rather_o because_o there_o have_v be_v heretofore_o such_o noise_n of_o confuse_a exclamation_n at_o least_o interpretative_o reflect_v on_o you_o and_o you_o pass_v they_o by_o shall_v i_o tell_v you_o what_o be_v judge_v to_o have_v rather_o enforce_v you_o unto_o this_o work_n many_o of_o the_o minister_n in_o the_o city_n not_o long_o before_o draw_v up_o a_o letter_n to_o the_o assembly_n concern_v some_o church_n grievance_n and_o in_o particular_a that_o of_o gather_v of_o church_n and_o draw_v away_o their_o people_n which_o letter_n as_o it_o be_v not_o direct_v in_o particular_a against_o you_o so_o it_o reflect_v in_o the_o word_n and_o sense_n upon_o many_o other_o rather_o then_o yourselves_o which_o letter_n how_o it_o be_v accept_v of_o by_o the_o assembly_n and_o what_o speech_n and_o motion_n be_v upon_o it_o how_o to_o remedy_n and_o prevent_v the_o evil_n represent_v and_o especial_o that_o of_o gather_a church_n you_o better_o know_v then_o i._n but_o soon_o after_o some_o consideration_n be_v put_v forth_o by_o many_o member_n of_o the_o assembly_n to_o dissuade_v from_o gather_v church_n to_o which_o consideration_n your_o hand_n be_v subscribe_v upon_o what_o reason_n you_o comply_v in_o that_o and_o whether_o you_o can_v not_o well_o avoid_v it_o without_o great_a prejudice_n to_o your_o cause_n you_o know_v best_a and_o now_o whether_o this_o apologetical_a narration_n be_v not_o first_o hasten_v to_o follow_v upon_o these_o consideration_n to_o counterbalance_n that_o act_n of_o you_o against_o further_a gather_v of_o church_n that_o your_o cause_n and_o way_n may_v receive_v no_o loss_n and_o prejudice_n and_o to_o satisfy_v your_o own_o party_n many_o of_o they_o great_o exclaim_v against_o you_o for_o your_o hand_n to_o those_o consideration_n and_o so_o think_v by_o this_o after_o game_n to_o recover_v all_o i_o leave_v to_o the_o reader_n to_o judge_v 2._o whether_o also_o you_o well_o know_v that_o the_o assembly_n be_v upon_o the_o border_n of_o the_o main_a point_n in_o difference_n and_o upon_o come_v to_o debate_v presbytery_n ordination_n excommunication_n you_o put_v not_o forth_o this_o book_n to_o taste_v and_o try_v the_o spirit_n of_o the_o assembly_n and_o other_o before_o hand_n 3._o whether_o also_o this_o be_v not_o intend_v to_o prepossess_a the_o people_n mind_n to_o lay_v in_o prejudice_n against_o what_o the_o assembly_n may_v determine_v and_o by_o discover_v yourselves_o so_o before_o hand_n and_o so_o public_o engage_v yourselves_o your_o party_n may_v appear_v and_o stand_v the_o more_o by_o you_o and_o with_o you_o for_o a_o toleration_n the_o great_a design_n of_o the_o man_n of_o this_o way_n in_o these_o time_n 4._o last_o whether_o as_o much_o as_o you_o dare_v this_o apology_n be_v not_o set_v out_o just_a upon_o the_o comming-in_a of_o our_o brethren_n of_o scotland_n to_o our_o help_n to_o asperse_v the_o government_n and_o reformation_n of_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n and_o to_o lessen_v the_o esteem_n of_o that_o kingdom_n and_o church_n so_o much_o and_o so_o deserve_o value_v by_o this_o kingdom_n but_o look_v upon_o by_o all_o the_o man_n of_o the_o new_a church_n way_n as_o the_o great_a let_v of_o their_o independent_a government_n these_o reason_n with_o some_o other_o may_v well_o be_v think_v to_o be_v the_o ground_n of_o your_o apology_n but_o that_o allege_a by_o you_o the_o sudden_a and_o unexpected_a noise_n of_o confuse_a exclamation_n seem_v so_o far_o from_o a_o reason_n that_o upon_o good_a ground_n 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when_o they_o come_v into_o england_n hope_v that_o god_n will_v give_v some_o opportunity_n when_o they_o come_v into_o england_n to_o make_v a_o end_n of_o it_o which_o whether_o it_o be_v end_v yet_o i_o doubt_v much_o because_o of_o some_o speech_n report_v to_o i_o speak_v by_o one_o of_o these_o person_n concern_v the_o other_o two_o now_o if_o this_o church_n of_o arnhim_n consist_v of_o minister_n moderate_a and_o wise_a stand_v upon_o their_o credit_n and_o reputation_n and_o of_o prime_a gentleman_n and_o pick_v christian_n be_v in_o exile_n and_o leave_v all_o for_o their_o conscience_n as_o they_o say_v do_v yet_o run_v into_o such_o strange_a conceit_n and_o break_v among_o themselves_o thus_o what_o can_v be_v expect_v of_o independent_a church_n here_o that_o may_v consist_v of_o raw_a and_o fiery_a
complaint_n and_o appeal_n now_o the_o presbyterian_o in_o that_o give_v the_o magistrate_n a_o power_n about_o the_o use_n and_o abuse_v of_o ecclesiastical_a discipline_n and_o ecclesiastical_a cause_n and_o business_n yea_o and_o definitive_a to_o namely_o a_o political_a objective_n consequent_a power_n which_o may_v be_v diverse_o exercise_v both_o ordinary_o and_o extraordinary_o in_o a_o church_n constitute_v and_o in_o a_o good_a estate_n and_o in_o a_o church_n fall_v and_o corrupt_v voetius_fw-la in_o his_o disputation_n upon_o that_o question_n in_o who_o hand_n the_o ecclesiastical_a 68_o power_n be_v a_o great_a presbyterian_a in_o that_o question_n grant_v and_o give_v to_o the_o magistrate_n a_o public_a judicial_a power_n of_o judge_v not_o only_o with_o the_o judgement_n of_o knowledge_n but_o definitive_a in_o cause_n and_o matter_n ecclesiastical_a which_o judgement_n be_v consequent_a not_o antecedent_n because_o the_o ultimate_a disquisition_n be_v not_o in_o that_o whether_o that_o be_v true_a but_o whether_o they_o will_v by_o public_a authority_n maintain_v and_o execute_v that_o so_o *_o apollonius_n in_o his_o answer_n to_o vedelius_fw-la where_o he_o strong_o plead_v for_o the_o presbyterian_o in_o that_o point_n of_o ecclesiastical_a power_n yet_o give_v much_o to_o the_o magistrate_n ordinary_o in_o a_o church_n constitute_v and_o well_o reform_v in_o the_o point_n of_o this_o part_n of_o power_n and_o extraordinary_o in_o the_o state_n of_o a_o church_n corrupt_v and_o great_o disorder_v when_o the_o doctrine_n be_v corrupt_v and_o the_o sacrament_n contaminate_v with_o idolatrous_a rite_n and_o discipline_n turn_v into_o tyranny_n and_o when_o the_o ministry_n and_o all_o ecclesiastical_a meeting_n both_o inferior_a and_o superior_a conspire_v to_o oppress_v the_o truth_n of_o god_n and_o to_o establish_v tyranny_n in_o the_o church_n in_o such_o case_n the_o magistrate_n may_v do_v many_o thing_n beside_o the_o ordinary_a way_n now_o let_v i_o entreat_v you_o to_o consult_v the_o book_n of_o the_o presbyterian_o and_o especial_o apollonius_n answer_v to_o vedelius_fw-la of_o the_o several_a particular_n of_o the_o power_n of_o magistrate_n about_o the_o use_n and_o abuse_v of_o discipline_n in_o a_o constitute_v church_n beside_o the_o power_n give_v they_o in_o extraordinary_a case_n and_o in_o your_o reply_n to_o this_o answer_n satisfy_v i_o what_o you_o give_v more_o but_o let_v i_o tell_v you_o whatever_o power_n you_o five_o may_v have_v find_v out_o for_o the_o magistrate_n which_o the_o principle_n of_o presbyterial_a government_n will_v not_o suffer_v they_o to_o yield_v some_o new_a power_n may_v be_v like_o that_o devise_n of_o non-communion_n of_o church_n and_o protestation_n to_o all_o church_n that_o they_o may_v do_v the_o like_a yet_o your_o church_n may_v not_o grant_v it_o and_o so_o the_o magistrate_n shall_v be_v never_o the_o near_o the_o power_n you_o give_v the_o magistrate_n in_o the_o 17._o and_o 19_o pag._n be_v not_o yield_v by_o many_o of_o your_o own_o church_n whereof_o you_o be_v minister_n a_o gentleman_n a_o prime_a member_n of_o one_o of_o your_o church_n immediate_o after_o the_o come_n forth_o of_o your_o apologetical_a narration_n disclaim_v and_o renounce_v that_o power_n of_o the_o magistrate_n express_v by_o you_o in_o the_o hear_n of_o a_o minister_n a_o member_n of_o the_o assembly_n who_o relate_v it_o to_o i_o but_o what_o be_v it_o wherein_o you_o give_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n sure_o there_o be_v something_o you_o mean_v and_o aim_v at_o in_o it_o if_o we_o can_v find_v it_o out_o suffer_v i_o to_o guess_v at_o it_o and_o you_o shall_v see_v though_o you_o do_v not_o formal_o express_v so_o much_o yet_o i_o have_v some_o reason_n to_o judge_v so_o first_o do_v you_o not_o mean_v in_o this_o phrase_n the_o magistrate_n power_n to_o which_o we_o give_v as_o much_o and_o as_o we_o think_v more_o than_o the_o principle_n of_o presbyterial_a government_n will_v suffer_v they_o to_o yield_v that_o your_o churchway_n consist_v all_o of_o particular_a congregation_n and_o not_o grow_v into_o great_a body_n by_o combination_n and_o synod_n the_o magistrate_n power_n be_v great_a over_o you_o in_o that_o he_o may_v easy_o deal_v with_o you_o and_o dissolve_v you_o at_o pleasure_n but_o for_o a_o power_n to_o grow_v into_o so_o great_a a_o body_n a_o ecclesiastical_a power_n as_o large_a as_o the_o civil_a so_o combine_v this_o may_v be_v formidable_a and_o dangerous_a to_o the_o state_n and_o too_o great_a for_o the_o magistrate_n hereafter_o to_o rectify_v this_o have_v be_v by_o a_o active_a independent_a upon_o discourse_n of_o these_o point_n suggest_v to_o i_o and_o how_o far_o one_o of_o you_o have_v reason_v thus_o in_o the_o hear_n of_o many_o against_o presbyterial_a government_n and_o for_o congregationall_a you_o can_v remember_v or_o second_o do_v you_o understand_v by_o this_o phrase_n that_o when_o heresy_n schism_n or_o strange_a opinion_n be_v broach_v in_o your_o church_n and_o you_o can_v tell_v what_o to_o do_v with_o they_o nor_o how_o to_o suppress_v they_o nor_o how_o to_o have_v the_o person_n censure_v be_v so_o powerful_a in_o particular_a congregation_n whereof_o they_o be_v member_n in_o such_o a_o case_n you_o give_v the_o civil_a magistrate_n a_o power_n to_o question_v they_o for_o these_o heresy_n schism_n and_o to_o imprison_v banish_v etc._n etc._n if_o they_o do_v not_o revoke_v they_o new-england_n practise_v the_o way_n of_o independency_n and_o not_o have_v class_n synod_n that_o have_v authoritative_a power_n to_o call_v to_o account_v and_o censure_v such_o person_n be_v necessitate_v to_o make_v use_n of_o the_o magistrate_n and_o to_o give_v the_o more_o to_o they_o a_o power_n of_o question_v for_o doctrine_n and_o judge_v of_o error_n and_o punish_v with_o imprisonment_n banishment_n and_o they_o find_v out_o a_o pretty_a fine_a distinction_n to_o deceive_v themselves_o with_o and_o to_o salve_v the_o contrariety_n of_o this_o practice_n to_o some_o other_o principle_n that_o the_o magistrate_n question_v and_o punish_v for_o these_o opinion_n and_o error_n which_o now_o for_o want_n of_o ecclesiastical_a discipline_n and_o censure_n they_o know_v not_o what_o to_o do_v with_o not_o as_o heresy_n and_o such_o opinion_n but_o as_o breach_n of_o the_o civil_a peace_n and_o disturbance_n to_o the_o commonwealth_n which_o distinction_n if_o the_o parliament_n will_v have_v learn_v from_o you_o and_o proceed_v upon_o they_o may_v long_o ago_o have_v put_v down_o all_o your_o church_n and_o congregation_n and_o just_o have_v deal_v with_o you_o as_o the_o magistrate_n in_o new-england_n do_v with_o mr_n williams_n and_o the_o antinomian_o familist_n and_o anabaptist_n there_o and_o yet_o have_v say_v they_o punish_v you_o not_o for_o your_o conscience_n nor_o because_o of_o such_o opinion_n but_o because_o your_o opinion_n way_n and_o practice_n be_v a_o occasion_n of_o much_o hurt_n to_o the_o commonwealth_n a_o breach_n of_o civil_a peace_n a_o great_a cause_n of_o many_o people_n sit_v so_o loose_a from_o the_o parliament_n a_o great_a hindrance_n to_o the_o reformation_n and_o a_o ground_n of_o much_o distraction_n to_o the_o public_a and_o of_o strengthen_v the_o enemy_n whereas_o the_o presbyterian_o give_v the_o power_n in_o case_n of_o heresy_n error_n etc._n etc._n that_o be_v not_o remedy_v in_o the_o particular_a congregation_n to_o class_n synod_n assembly_n to_o question_v convince_v judge_v of_o censure_n and_o to_o apply_v spiritual_a remedy_n proper_a to_o spiritual_a disease_n which_o i_o be_o confident_a of_o have_v such_o be_v in_o new-england_n in_o the_o presbyterial_a way_n there_o have_v never_o be_v so_o many_o imprison_v banish_v for_o error_n nor_o the_o magistrate_n put_v upon_o that_o distinction_n or_o three_o be_v it_o that_o you_o do_v give_v a_o power_n to_o the_o magistrate_n in_o ecclesiastical_a thing_n of_o the_o ultimate_a determination_n of_o matter_n pure_o ecclesiastical_a which_o the_o presbyterian_o principle_n do_v not_o as_o now_o in_o matter_n of_o doctrine_n and_o in_o matter_n of_o scandal_n and_o in_o matter_n of_o censure_n excommunication_n deposition_n etc._n etc._n which_o be_v bring_v before_o and_o have_v pass_v in_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n to_o appeal_v from_o they_o to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n and_o to_o carry_v cause_n from_o thence_o to_o civil_a court_n to_o repeal_v and_o revoke_v they_o your_o word_n and_o passage_n about_o the_o magistrate_n power_n imply_v this_o and_o i_o find_v that_o many_o quick_a sight_a man_n as_o the_o walachrian_a classis_fw-la nay_o a_o whole_a synod_n after_o they_o in_o their_o late_a letter_n to_o the_o assembly_n apprehend_v you_o so_o and_o therefore_o i_o may_v upon_o good_a ground_n judge_v beside_o the_o two_o former_a that_o you_o aim_v at_o this_o three_o in_o say_v you_o give_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n power_n then_o the_o presbyterian_o
have_v gather_v about_o we_o or_o be_v rather_o cast_v upon_o our_o person_n in_o our_o absence_n begin_v by_o our_o presence_n again_o and_o the_o blessing_n of_o god_n upon_o we_o in_o a_o great_a measure_n to_o scatter_v and_o vanish_v without_o speak_v a_o word_n for_o ourselves_o and_o cause_n and_o now_o if_o upon_o your_o presence_n only_o and_o that_o without_o speak_v a_o word_n they_o vanish_v and_o be_v scatter_v how_o do_v they_o then_o vanish_v upon_o speak_v for_o yourselves_o and_o way_n and_o then_o how_o can_v this_o cloud_n of_o mistake_n etc._n etc._n so_o easy_o blow_v away_o by_o your_o breath_n nay_o without_o your_o breath_n be_v so_o great_a a_o affliction_n to_o you_o certain_o you_o be_v man_n very_o tender_a of_o any_o mistake_n misapprehension_n or_o reproach_n upon_o you_o but_o i_o think_v it_o may_v be_v salve_v by_o your_o comparison_n as_o great_a to_o we_o as_o our_o former_a trouble_n and_o banishment_n both_o much_o alike_o great_a that_o be_v neither_o of_o they_o but_o what_o mean_v you_o by_o that_o parenthesis_n wherein_o we_o may_v seem_v to_o differ_v do_v but_o your_o opinion_n seem_v to_o differ_v from_o we_o and_o do_v they_o not_o real_o why_o then_o have_v you_o and_o do_v you_o make_v all_o this_o ado_n in_o our_o church_n as_o for_o your_o opinion_n and_o way_n environ_v with_o mistake_n and_o misapprehension_n i_o know_v nothing_o for_o my_o part_n have_v be_v fasten_v upon_o your_o way_n but_o what_o have_v be_v find_v in_o letter_n manuscript_n your_o know_a practice_n and_o in_o print_a book_n of_o new-england_n and_o in_o the_o discourse_n of_o your_o own_o member_n and_o familiar_n but_o if_o some_o man_n who_o have_v not_o study_v the_o point_n nor_o give_v themselves_o to_o understand_v your_o way_n do_v mistake_v and_o misapprehend_v you_o that_o be_v your_o own_o fault_n that_o walk_v so_o in_o the_o dark_a and_o have_v be_v so_o often_o desire_v to_o give_v a_o narrative_a of_o what_o you_o hold_v in_o difference_n never_o yet_o will_v as_o for_o the_o calumny_n east_n upon_o you_o of_o schism_n independency_n and_o brownism_n with_o the_o reason_n insert_v to_o vindicate_v yourselves_o from_o they_o i_o shall_v first_o give_v a_o general_a answer_n to_o they_o together_o and_o then_o to_o each_o of_o they_o apart_o 1._o in_o general_n how_o ever_o you_o do_v in_o word_n wash_v your_o hand_n of_o these_o imputation_n and_o wipe_v your_o mouth_n confident_o deny_v they_o yet_o all_o the_o water_n in_o the_o thames_n will_v not_o wash_v you_o from_o all_o just_a imputation_n of_o these_o it_o be_v no_o new_a thing_n for_o man_n who_o go_v in_o bye_o way_n and_o maintain_v error_n whether_o more_o fundamental_a or_o superstructory_n to_o abominate_a the_o name_n and_o title_n give_v to_o those_o opinion_n whether_o from_o the_o author_n who_o first_o broach_v they_o or_o from_o the_o matter_n of_o they_o and_o to_o deny_v the_o opinion_n and_o point_n charge_v upon_o they_o by_o find_v out_o some_o distinction_n or_o doubtful_a word_n and_o expression_n to_o cloud_v they_o with_o in_o which_o sense_n they_o wrap_v up_o themselves_o and_o deceive_v many_o and_o so_o give_v other_o name_n i_o may_v fill_v up_o a_o book_n in_o give_v instance_n out_o of_o ancient_a and_o modern_a writer_n of_o this_o artifice_n those_o who_o be_v common_o call_v saracen_n their_o name_n be_v haggarens_n as_o come_v of_o hagak_n but_o they_o will_v not_o be_v so_o call_v but_o name_n themselves_o saracen_n son_n of_o the_o freewoman_n the_o schwenefeldians_n call_v by_o luther_n philip_n melancton_n and_o other_o famous_a divine_n stenckfeldian_n from_o â—…elp_v the_o ill_a savour_n of_o their_o opinion_n yet_o schuvenckfeldius_fw-la entitle_v they_o with_o that_o glorious_a name_n the_o confessor_n of_o the_o glory_n of_o christ._n the_o antinomian_o will_v not_o endure_v to_o be_v call_v by_o that_o name_n but_o style_v themselves_o the_o hearer_n of_o the_o gospel_n and_o of_o freegrace_n the_o old_a separatist_n can_v not_o endure_v to_o be_v call_v brownist_n or_o barrowist_n as_o appear_v by_o the_o title_n of_o mr_n robinson_n apologie_n so_o you_o will_v not_o endure_v the_o title_n of_o schism_n separation_n independency_n but_o you_o call_v it_o the_o congregationall_a government_n and_o the_o church_n way_n and_o a_o entire_a full_a complete_a power_n but_o by_o no_o mean_n independent_a government_n that_o will_v not_o be_v endure_v as_o no_o sin_n will_v be_v call_v willing_o by_o its_o own_o name_n but_o take_v other_o name_n drunkenness_n will_v be_v call_v good_a fellowship_n covetousness_n good_a husbandry_n and_o providence_n so_o few_o error_n will_v be_v call_v after_o the_o name_n of_o the_o first_o father_n or_o the_o matter_n simple_o they_o hold_v and_o i_o can_v give_v you_o many_o reason_n of_o this_o among_o other_o take_v these_o 1._o many_o be_v possess_v by_o book_n and_o argument_n against_o such_o and_o such_o error_n under_o 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occasion_n for_o draw_v up_o such_o answer_n to_o it_o and_o you_o can_v blame_v none_o but_o yourselves_o as_o will_v upon_o necessity_n discover_v and_o lay_v open_a both_o matter_n of_o fact_n and_o opinion_n more_o than_o ever_o else_o there_o will_v have_v be_v any_o pretence_n of_o ground_n to_o have_v do_v it_o as_o for_o refer_v the_o vindication_n of_o your_o person_n to_o god_n and_o a_o further_a experience_n of_o you_o by_o man_n i_o answer_v that_o without_o great_a repentance_n for_o this_o apologetical_a narration_n and_o some_o other_o practice_n since_o your_o return_n into_o england_n in_o stead_n of_o god_n vindicate_v your_o person_n you_o can_v but_o expect_v god_n will_v visit_v you_o and_o whether_o hereafter_o man_n may_v have_v occasion_n to_o vindicate_v you_o upon_o further_a experience_n of_o you_o i_o refer_v that_o to_o time_n but_o for_o the_o experience_n they_o have_v have_v of_o you_o this_o parliament_n before_o the_o write_n of_o this_o apology_n 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application_n be_v obvious_a you_o desert_v the_o cause_n and_o in_o as_o much_o as_o in_o you_o lay_v hazard_v all_o and_o yet_o be_v not_o content_a with_o this_o to_o come_v in_o upon_o the_o victory_n and_o divide_v the_o spoil_n with_o those_o who_o help_v to_o win_v the_o field_n to_o enjoy_v the_o prime_a lecture_n and_o place_n in_o and_o near_o the_o city_n both_o of_o note_n and_o profit_n with_o all_o respect_n and_o countenance_n from_o parliament_n and_o city_n but_o you_o will_v have_v peculiar_o and_o enjoy_v such_o a_o way_n as_o shall_v shut_v out_o all_o in_o comparison_n a_o unreasonable_a request_n and_o a_o strange_a instance_n for_o all_o posterity_n if_o it_o shall_v be_v grant_v for_o our_o part_n many_o of_o we_o who_o bear_v the_o heat_n of_o the_o day_n stand_v to_o it_o and_o venture_v break_v and_o undo_v many_o time_n over_o request_v no_o such_o favour_n nor_o exemption_n but_o to_o take_v our_o lot_n in_o common_a with_o the_o kingdom_n and_o minister_n in_o thing_n establish_v and_o i_o know_v no_o reason_n that_o upon_o any_o consideration_n either_o extrinsicall_a or_o intrinsicall_a you_o shall_v be_v consider_v above_o the_o godly_a minister_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n i_o know_v and_o can_v give_v many_o to_o the_o contrary_a but_o beside_o that_o i_o have_v before_o full_o speak_v more_o than_o once_o how_o little_a there_o be_v in_o this_o argument_n of_o you_o so_o often_o inculcate_v of_o exile_n and_o suffer_v to_o exile_n the_o cause_n here_o render_v by_o you_o of_o your_o suffer_v even_o to_o exile_n namely_o for_o what_o the_o kingdom_n itself_o now_o suffer_v in_o the_o endeavour_n to_o cast_v out_o be_v not_o true_a nor_o proper_a for_o however_o the_o kingdom_n now_o suffer_v for_o cast_v out_o the_o hierarchy_n and_o some_o corruption_n in_o worship_n and_o for_o a_o reformation_n according_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o the_o example_n of_o the_o best_a reform_a church_n yet_o your_o suffering_n 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