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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A19649	An aunswer to sixe reasons, that Thomas Pownde, Gentleman, and prisoner in the Marshalsey. at the commaundement of her Maiesties Commissioners, for causes Ecclesisasticall: required to be aunswered Because these reasons doo moue him to think, that controuersies and doubts in religion, may not be iudged by the Scriptures, but that the Scriptures must be iudged by the Catholique Church. ... Written by Robert Crovvley.	Crowley, Robert, 1518?-1588.; Pounde, Thomas, 1539-1616.; Tripp, Henry, d. 1612.	1581 (1581)	STC 6075; ESTC S109107	34,598	58

that doo vnfainedly professe that Religion that you hate doo vnfainedly looue you and pray for the opening of the eyes of your vnderstanding that you may see and feele and embrace your saluation in Christe and that being Englishmen or inhabiting within the English dominions you may know and acknowledge her Maiestie for your supreme Gouernor in all causes next and immediatly vnder Christe our onely vniuersall head Fare you well From my house at S. Gyles without Creplegate of London the. 6. of Ianuarie 1580. After the accoumpt of the Church of Englande and in the. 23. yeere of her Maiesties Reigne ⸪ Yours when you shall shew your selues to be true Christians and English men Robert Crovvley Clerk 7. September 1580. ¶ Sixe Reasons set downe to shew that it is no orderly way in cōtrouersies of faith to appeale to be tryed only by Scriptures as the absurde opinion of all the Sectaries is but the sentence definition of the Catholike Church by whome as by the Spowse of Christ alwayes inspired with the holy ghost the holy Scripture is to be iudged FIrst consider well these words of our Sauiour in sending vs to the Scriptures saying Searche the Scriptures for you thinke to haue eternall life in them And these are they that beare witnesse of me Marke well these wordes I say that the Scripture is but witnesse bearer to the trueth and not the Iudge to discerne of trueth for iudgement giuing belongeth not to the witnesse bearer although he be as a rule to leade and direct the Iudge in true iudgement But what if this witnesse should be currupted as no man will deny but it may yet this Iudge to whome the holy Ghost is promised will finde it and reforme it Vnderstād therfore my Reasons why of necessitie the Church must be Iudge of the Scriptures and take your Pen and confute them I pray you if you can 1. The first is because the written Text is mute and dumbe vttering nothing to vs from the Booke but only the wordes and not the sense wherein the lyfe as it were of the Scripture consisteth And what definitiue sentence can such a Iudge giue to ouer rule the conceyted minde of an opinatiue man which hath no euident meanes to pronounce any iudgement against him but onely to shewe him a dumbe signe in writing which a wrangler may conster styll to his owne vnderstanding against all the worlde 2 The second Reason is because the holy Scripture as S. Augustine sayth is very full of harde and déepe anysteries in so much that when Honoratus sayd to him as many vnlearned men say now a dayes that he vnderstood it well enough without helpe of any instructor Say you so sayth he you would not take vpon you to vnderstand such a Poet as Terence is well without a Maister and dare you rushe into the holy Scriptures which are so full of Diuine mysteries without a Maister and dare you rushe into the holy Scriptures which are so full of Diuine mysteries without a guide All Heresies sayth he come of nothing else Nisi dum scripturae bonae intelliguntur non bene But whyle the good Scriptures are not well vnderstoode Héerto also S. Peter in his second Epistle Cap. 3. beareth witnesse saying That many misunder stood S. Paule in many harde places peruersly to their owne perdition But then you will say the harde places may easely he vnderstoode by conference of other Scriptures Well admit a chyldish reason for a worde or two That because they might so be among the humble minded therfore they must néeds be so though men be neuer so peruerse Yet giue mée leaue to pose you then one Question farther to y e quick Howe is it possible to knowe by any conference of the Scriptures which is Canonicall Scripture and which is not certainely if any Infidell would deny the olde Testament as some Heretikes in time past haue done and I praye God there be not many Atheistes at this day in England which be farther gone yet then they Yea if such a one should deny all the newe Testament also we haue no sure Anckor holde against him but the Reuelation of God by tradition to his Church which is the pyllor and sure stay of trueth which S. Augustine well séeing thought he might be bolde to say with due reuerence to God and holie Scripture bothe I should not beleue the Gospell except the authoritie of y e Church did moue me thereunto meanyng that the tradition of the vniuersall Churche and the testimonie of all the people of God in whom the holie Ghoste dwelleth must iustly moue vs to credite that whiche their authoritie doth commaunde vs to giue credite vnto Therefore let any man beware of fliyng from the Churches Iudgement to the Scripture onely least the Scripture it self should vtterly bee denied as by some Atheistes in Englande as I heare saie is alreadie And then might suche Infidels laugh all Heretickes to scorne for robbyng them selues of their owne defence But now to returne to my purpose if conference of one Scripture with an other might giue light enough to all men How happeneth it that all Sects vsing that conference yet thei can neuer agrre in their opinions but diuers men and all vsing suche conference doe yet construe it diuersly The vttermoste shifte thei haue is this suche a weake one as it is that the Reader must giue hymself to prayer for the truthe to be reuealed vnto hym Wherein marke I praie you the iutollerable pride of arrogant Hypocrites that thei will first mistrust Gods reuelation of the truthe to his Vniaersall Churche for the whiche Christe himself hath prayed and promised to teache them all tr 〈…〉 moste presumptuously to come and 〈…〉 pt God to haue that truthe reuealed onely to them selues whiche beyng reuealed many hundreth yeares agone and defined in generall Counsell by all the holie Fathers where the holie Ghoste is alwaies present or at leaste by the holie Doctors in their writynges set doune yet thei will not beleeue it nor harken vnto it yet this is their course and so as thei saie forsoothe thei praie very hartely though fewe of them can wring out any teares in their praiers but yet with suche a faithe in the Lorde as their owne terme is that they dooe all verely beleeue the truthe is reuealed vnto them And yet perdie thei must needes be all deceiued as long as thei dwell in dissention and are not in errors onely but one contrarie to an other who now must be the Iudge to trie the spirites whether they be of God or no but onely the Churche Or els shall thei not bee tried at all but continuall permission for infinite Legions of liyng spirites to be still vndetected that thei maie seduce more and more 3 The third Reason is because S. Peter saieth plainly that no Scripture is to bee taken after any miuate interpretatiō for it was not vttered after the will and fantasie of

easie matter to cause you to confesse that bothe a Pope and a generall Councell haue erred For the sixt generall Councell holden at Constantinople where .289 Bishops were gathered together it was amongst other thinges decréede that holy Images should be had in Churches and that the same should be with great reuerence worshipped And this Councell was holden when the first Agatho was Pope and this decrée was allowed by him And afterward by Adrian the first Pope of that name So that one generall Councell and two Popes haue erred in one decrée made against and directly contrary to Gods commaundement Thou shall not make to thy s●l●e any grauen Image c. Iohn ths 12. of that name behaued him selfe so well in his nine yéeres gouernment that one Historian calleth him Sceleratum virum A man giuen ouer to all wickednesse And an other calleth him Monstrum hominis A Monster amongst men And at the last he was slaine being taken in adulterie But peraduenture you wyll say these faults procéede of humane infirmitie But what wyll you then say to Syluester the seconde that gaue him selfe to the Diuell that he might obtaine y e Popedome which he obtayned in déede and dyd enioy it fowre yéeres Benedictus the ninthe lyued so wickedly governing the Church fiftéene yéeres that one Historian sayth he was Vir plane probrosus infamis that is A man altogether worthy of reproches or euyll reportes and infamous And an other sayth that after his death hée was séene in an horrible shape and that be sayde thus Iusto Dei iudicio damnatus sum quia fine Lege vixi I am dampned euen by the iuste iudgement of GOD because I lyued without lawe If all this wyll not suffise you consider I pray you the Councell of Basill holden in the yere .1431 And Pope Eugenius that in those dayes ruled the Church .16 yéeres This Engenius dyd once allowe the decrées of that Coūcell And afterward he did disallow the same Whereby it is manifest that he erred either in the first or in the last And if the Popes authorite be aboue the Councell then that Councell dyd erre in deposing that Pope And if the Councell be aboue the Pope then did that Pope erre in excomunicating that Councell If you wyll take paines in reading the Histories you shall finde amongst the Popes the Saduces errour the Arrians errour the Pellagians errour mainteyned Yea you shall finde and we doo sée manifestly that at this day your whole Church dooth mainteyne the heresie of the Anthropomorphits For you haue in all your Churches the Image of God the Father resembling an olde man with gray haires as though tyme had now made him olde as it dooth all creatures But when your Church had thrée Popes at one time Iohn the .23 Gregorie the .12 and Benedict the .13 To which of these would you haue sent vs for resolution of our doubtes Yea and when your Church was two yéeres together without eyther Pope or generall Coūcell whether would you haue wished vs to leaue the Iudgement in matters of Church cōtrouersies at that tyme I hope you wyll no longer wishe vs to leaue the Scripture that neuer did nor shall fayle vs and depend vpon such Iudges as these that haue so often failed and as yet were neuer full agréed As for your comparison that you make betwixt the Churches and worldly kingdomes it is not woorth a Walnut And your similitude of a wyse Burgesse in Parliament we weigh not We knowe and confesse that mens lawes are not neither can be made so plaine or perfect but that it is necessary that there be Iudges that may haue authoritie to discide those cōtrouersies y t may arise by occasiō of sinister construing of y e meaning of the words of the lawe or by occasion of the darknesse of the same But where finde you any such darknesse or imperfection in the Scriptures of God Dooth not Dauid say Lucerna pedibus meis verbum tuum lumē semitis meis Thy worde sayth Dauid is a Lanterne to my féete and a lyght to my pathes Take héede that you be not one of them that Esay speaketh of That doe call lyght darknesse and darknesse lyght c. I doo graunt that there may some question arise amongst men about the vnderstāding of some places of Scripture but this ryseth not of the darknesse that is in the scriptures but of that darknesse that is in mans vnderstanding Which till it be opened by the mercifull goodnesse of God cannot perceyue those thinges that doo belong to the spirite of God And we doo thinke it necessarie that there be good and learned men chosen put in authoritie in the Church such as may when néede is call together y e most graue wyse and godlie learned persons in the feare of God to delyberate for the good gouernment of the Church and to take order that all thinges in the Church may be done to the edification of the same according to the rule of S. Paule And if any proude or froward person or any simple or ignoraunt person doo mooue any question or his or theyr misdemeanour doo cause any questiō to be mooued or any doubt to aryse about the true meaning of any part of the Scripture We thinke it méete that in these cases those places of Scripture be reuerendly weighed by those wyse learned graue godlie men so called together in the feare of God And that the persons so in doubt be by them certified of the true meaning of those places And that if they will not yéeld to that interpretation that shall be made by those men and prooued by due circumstances conference of those places with other to be the verie meaning of the holie Ghost in those places then we holde those men for Heretiques and doo iudge them worthy to be excommunicated Thus if you wyll you may sée that we are some thing wiser then your Burgesse in Parliament and not so worthy to be laughed to scorne as he Although we doo not make these men Iudges of the scripture but we doo put them in trust to search the Scriptures that both they and we may submit our selues to that iudgement which they by theyr reuerende searching shall finde in the Scriptures As for the fortie places of Scripture that the Arrians brought for the defence of theyr horrible Heresie we are able enough by the help of God to set foorth plainly in theyr true meaning and to withstand the Arrians without the helpe of our Catholique Church Notwithstanding the fortie places of Scripture that they bring more then we can bring for the trueth And we say as S. Austine sayth that the Scriptures to mysse vnderstanded and mysse applied are the Heretiques bowe to shoote out theyr owne venemous arrowes And as Vincentius sayth They are the shéepes cloathing which the Woolfe dooth shrowde her selfe in in c. Yea and we confesse that the

Diuell him selfe dyd alleadge scripture against our sauiour Christe and dyd applie it as rightlie as Bonifacius the eight did when after he had one day shewed him self in his Pontificalibus that is his Popely attyre and the next day in the robes of an Emperour he sayd thus Ecce duo gladij hic Beholde heere are two swordes Another of your Popes setting his foote vppon the necke of Fredericus the Emperour sayd Super Aspidem Basiliscum ambulabis conculcabis Leonem Draconem Upon the Aspe and Basiliske shalt thou walke and vpon the Lyon and Dragon shalt thou treade And surely as often as these wresters of the Scriptures doo speake vnto vs the Diuell dooth as Vincentius sayth speake by theyr mouthes c. But héere I leaue your Vincentius and you together tyll at some more leysure I may reade him ouer I can not thinke that hée dooth handle that place of Mathewe so grosely as you would make vs beléeue that he dooth But though he doo the matter is not great For there is none that hath any sence or féeling in the vnderstanding of the Scriptures but the same may easily sée that when our sauiour Christe sayde Non tentabis Dominū Deum tuum Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God He had a farre other meaning then that which you woulde make vs beléeue that Vincentius dooth gather of these wordes Yea Athens I dyd first write this aunswer I haue read ouer Vincentius and haue founde that you doo belye him But as one mistrusting the authoritie of your Vincentius you clap in the necke of it one sentence of S. Austine but you tell vs not where we shall finde it But if those wordes be Austines as it may be that they are they wyll and doo serue much better against you and your sort then they can against vs. And thus much to your fift Reason which I haue called Fraudulent for the cause afore mencioned ¶ The ●ixt Reason YOur sixt and last Reason most weyghtie of all is this Because if we wyll refuse the authoritie of the Churches absolute iudgement vppon the scriptures true sence We shall séeme plainely to deny the holy Ghost to be the spirite of trueth c. This Reason I haue called Fanaticall For that in making so great an accoumpt of this Reason you séeme not to be in your right wittes What bedlem would abuse the wordes written in the fowretéene of Iohn as you doo to prooue that because our Sauiour Christe dyd praye for and obtayne and dyd giue the holy Ghost the spirite of trueth to his holy Apostles and dyd promise that the same should remayne with them for euer and instruct them in all trueth therfore the same holy Ghost must néedes be and remayne styll in that Church which agréeeth with the Church of the Apostles onely in name and is no more lyke the Apostles Church in doctrine and manners then blacke is lyke to whyte and God is lyke the Diuell The Wise man sayth that Wisedome wyll not enter into a malicious soule neyther wyll she dwell in a body that is subiect to sinnes For the holy spirite of Wisedome flyeth from deceite c. And shall we thinke that the holy Spirite of trueth hath bene and wyll be styll amongst such a rabble of Popes Cardinalles and other Catholiques as your owne Histories make mencion of that haue besides theyr beastly lyfe made decrées directlie contrarie to Gods commaundements Yea shall we thinke that the Spirite of Christe dwelleth amongst those Catholiques that at this day doo in the twentie and fiue Session of the Councell of Trent pronounce all such accurssed as doo shewe them selues eyther by doctrine or otherwise to mislyke with the hauing of Images in Churches seeing the same is dyrectly contrarie to the second commaundement of God Shall we thinke that the holy spirite of God dyd guide those your Catholique Fathers when they dyd in the same Session blanche the counterfeyting of Gods Maiestie by an Image And thinke you that Esay the Prophet if he were now lyuing would allowe your applying of his wordes to such Catholiques and to theyr doinges séeing the same Prophete dooth so earnestly speake against the making of Images scorning bothe them and theyr makers and plainly affyrming that they be good for nothing The Scribes the Pharisies the high Priestes and Doctors of the lawe might as well haue mainteyned theyr corrupt Doctrine and Traditions against Christ and his Apostles euen by those words of Esay that you applie for your purpose as you may now by the same mayntaine all the corrupt Doctrines and Traditions of your Catholiques For they dyd then perswade them selues as you doo now that the promise was made to them could not but be perfourmed to them And that therfore Christe and his fauters were Scismatiks and méete to be excommunicated as by them they were in déede and as by you we be now But to our great and vnspeakable comfort our sauiour Christe hath foretolde vs of this saying These wordes haue I spoken vnto you that you should not be offended They wyll excommunicate you and the time will come wherin whosoeuer shall hyll you will think that he dooth God good seruice And that promise also that you would s●me to reioyce so much in●ia in déede as cōfortable to vs as you would haue men thinke that it is to you We knowe that the Spirite of trueth departeth not from Christe in his members the Church the true and vnfeyned Catholique Church Neyther doo the wordes that the heauenly Father put into the mouth of Christ his onely begotten Sonne depart out of his mouth the true Catholique Church and yet dare not we make that Church Iudge of that worde For they were not put into her mouth to that ende that shée should iudge them but that shée should in all her doinges be iudged tryed and directed by them As sottishe as you say our opinion is we are so farre from holding that euerie priuate man may haue leaue to be his owne Iudge in vnderstanding the Scripture that we doo not graunt it to the best learned but doo leaue it to him that béeing with humilitie of minde sought in the Scriptures wyll be found there yea euen by Crafts men such as was Peter and his fellow fisher men For he respecteth not mens persons nor Occupations And vnto them that so séeke him there whether they be many or fewe he wyll open the sence of vnderstading that they may vnderstand as much as he knoweth to be méete for them to vnderstand And such as haue that humble spirit wyll not search for nor shewe them selues destrous to knowe any more Well now you conclude vpon that which you say we must néedes graunt that is that the Church is our mother as Scripture sayth Well I am glad that you are now become a Scripture man But I pray you where is that Scripture written that sayth that your Catholique Church