Hipocrates thought Yea and also otherwise if it be as Erasistratus iudged y t the blood turning backwardes to the arteries or veynes of the spirits cause inflamation and the inflamatioÌ„ causeth the moouing which we sée in the Feuer So that he shall knowe how to cure which reacheth to the originall true cause And therfore you may consider whether Arte and study of Philosophy be requisite or no so that of necessity the causes of infirmities ought to be knowen And also to vnderstand the quality and property of mettals stones trées fruites hearbs rootes and also of beasts and all other thinges which may serue to y e vse of medicine to auoyd error in their application I doo not deny but rather affirme y t experience is profitable But I presume and am bolde to iustifie that there can be no experience without some reason or cause nor yet I thinke y t our Auncestors dyd vse their simples at all aduentures without coÌ„sideration But rather I iudge that by speculations and foresight in things conuenient they made their experience the which fyrst they coniectured to be good Therefore honour in this case ought not to be giuen to experience but rather to wisdome and counsell which was the chéefest part Nowbeit dayly are discouered diuers kindes of infirmities vnto whome experience and vse caÌ„ not serue because there can be no experience of a thing not knowen So that of necessitie it is néedefull to know by Arte and doctrine the obscure causes of the vice and corruption which the humors and members may suffer in a man besides these that are playne and open as colde heate hunger replexion and other lyke He also that will be a Phisition should vnderstand what thing is actions or naturall operations and what are those by the which we giue and take the spirit of breath we eate and drinke the place of disgestion and how the substance of our foode is deuided to giue strength to our bodies in all places Also it is néedefull to be vnderstoode why our Pulses haue continuall moouing and what is the reason and cause of sléepe watching without knowledge whereof it séemeth that he should not know how to preserue and cure infirmities Besides this men suffer great paynes and passions in the inward partes and members of the body which is a thing néedefull to be known to haue séen Anothomyes of some dead bodyes to haue marked considered the cullor the figure the bignesse the order and the hardnesse softnesse of them all Also the variety and deuision of the same members among themselues which doo ioyne together or how they giue place receyue As we reade that Erophilus and Erafistratus dyd requiring for the same purpose men that were condempned to death to prooue experience For it is a playne case that when any gréefe or interior hurt happeneth and not knowen how or where it is nor yet to apply outward medicine for the vncertayntie of the inward gréefe nor the nature reason thereof And finally for auoyding of 〈◊〉 I say that there are many necessary things appertayning to a good Phisition yea and to declare them only it is requisit that such a one be a learned Philosopher How much more to know how to put them in vre insomuch that Hipocrates sayth that a good Phisition ought to knowe the disease past to vnderstaÌ„d the cure present and also to proâ—osticate the thing to come So that Signor lasper if you haue harkened well vnto me you will not let to confesse that it is a thing necessary for Phisitions to haue bothe rules and precepts and that they be grounded on Sciences Artes. And as this is a thing that can not be common it is therfore necessarie to haue perticuler men Phisitions who ought to be honoured and estéemed as alwayes they haue bene And it is not sufficient that you alleadge that vices and disorders brought Phisitions to Rome for although it had so bene it séemed a speciall gyft of God who hauing sent them diseases dyd also send them remedy And againe contend and say what you lyst the Phisitions dooth not counsell any to distemper them selues but when any happeneth to be dystempered then the straunge is their owne proper and true names from their origen which is not vulgarly vnderstoode And where you speake of their Letters receypt it may be accoumpted a iest a thing not woorthy of aunswer because you know that such breuiations are vsed to auoyde perplexitie for euery Science hath his tearmes and breuiations in wryting And againe where you touched theyr varietie in iudgement the discharge is euident considering the wittes iudgemeÌ„ts of men are diuers so y t with a good whole intencioÌ„ they may be coÌ„trary in theyr sentence and with small perill in medicine considering that one disease may be cured by diuers wayes And by this meanes Phisitions may varry and by suÌ„dry wayes come to one ende which is the cure health of the Patient Now in this order your euyll suspition opinioÌ„ is dasht and broken in péeces by the sufficieÌ„t reasons which I haue declared And I thinke without any more contencion you ought to cease leaue of your ar guing and because I hope you will so do I will not now procéede any further although I haue matter ynough Dun Nunio By my fayth Signor Maister although I vnderstand little yet me thinketh that Signor Bernardo hath shewed himselfe a valliant Drator so that I am nowe on the Phisitions syde I know not what Signor Iasper iudgeth Maister Velasques What he thinketh he wyll say for as yet I ought not to speake because ye haue made me Iudge his turne abydeth for him he hath also wytte and yéeres to aunswer for himselfe ¶ The second part of the Dialogue of Phisitions wherin the matter is concluded and ended Iasper I Am cleane contrary to the opinion of Signor Bernardo and wyll not consent to any of his allegations nay rather I sweare by my conscience that his own reason hath confirmed me more in my Phisition remedieth the same And where you murmure of the inuencion of Syrruppes and distylled waters and of the compoundes of medicines you are the more to be blamed For rather the wytte and aduice of the inuentor is to be praysed and to receyue the same as a good gyft mercy of God who dayly giueth vs new remedyes and medicines And if in olde time they wanted knowledge to make Syrrups and distyll holsome waters both swéete pleasaunt as now are vsed I say therein the aduantage is ours and are therfore more bouÌ„d to be thankfull to Phisitions for so profitable and swéete a thing and because it is a new inuencion it is not therfore to be despised For likewise in olde tyme they knew not was Amber Muske nor Siuitte which are most swéete and excellent Odors And also the Mytridate and compound Treacle which you reprehend The reason is because you
vnderstand not neyther the composition nor the vertue of the things wherof it is made nor yet the effectes therof And where you say that PhisitioÌ„s ought to be punished as mankyllers you are therefore worthy of great reprehension to presume that they of mallice would kyll any ne yet through ignorance they caÌ„not do it But for their straight examinatioÌ„ I doo not mistike but rather holde it for a thing conuenient notwithstanding the Phisition vsing well his office in the obseruing of Rule Arte and the Patient should happen to die he ought not to be punished for his death And of the same opinion was Plato appearing in the ninth Dialogue of his Lawes And also where Phisitions procure to be payde for theyr paynes they ought not therfore to be reprehended sithens that by the Law of God and man the laborer ought to haue his hyre God also coÌ„mauÌ„deth that the Oxe that freadeth out the Corne be not mustod Moreouer I may say that of too much sharpnes of wytte nay rather of mallice wher you presume that of industry they darcken their Arte with strauÌ„ge names of things for why if you vnderstoode them you would say that those names which seemed vnto you straunge opinion And before I had heard him speake I was not so great an enemy of Phisitions as now I am But whether I haue reason or no by mine aunswere ye shall heare Fyrst I say you haue well vnderstoode my desire wherein I would haue no office of Phisitions in a common weale at the least such as should cure for money But that we should one counsell cure an other And also we shall know vse such remedies which are already knowen prooued by auncient men of experience and to stick vnto the same If this thing might so be although there were some inconueniences yet truly they should be much lesse theÌ„ those which procéede from the good and euyll Phisitions By meanes of theyr purges repurges bléedings and rebleedings yea and you should haue as small a diffyculty therin if determynatly we should begyn to dyspute as to speake one language and to haue one custome which are auncient in our Countrey yea and the great vse of olde tyme should be as easy to cure the diseased as in these our dayes So that héere is proofe and argument to sée that for the one part of medicine which according to theyr owne opinion is the principall which they call â—suall that is to say to know of what the Patient ought to féede howe what it should be more or lesse the experience vse and couÌ„sell which they haue among them selues and now so commoÌ„ to men wherby without either counsell or receypt of the Phisition men know what to eate how in what quantitie And such rule wisemen dare vse and obserue I speak not of such who will voluntarily be disordred Why alas if in this which is the chéefest poynt we can lyue without tutors why should we not then bring to passe y e vse of curing should be as well knowen among vs for why the difficulty or peryl should be no greater as I will shew after that I haue made aunswer to your argument And therfore will I chauÌ„ge the forme of aunswering because we are contrary in opinion You meane to defend the Phisitions of tyme present saying that Christe our redéemer dyd compare himselfe to Phisitions and that truly is as much as to defend the cruelty of the Lyons because they are also called Lyons Besydes this your argument is verie weake because your coÌ„parison of Christ to a Phisition dooth not so well fit your purpose So that I say you may make them more perticuler yet you shall sée y e Christe dooth rather approoue my opinioÌ„ then yours for he dyd not appoynt amoÌ„g his Disciples one nor two to heale and cure but generally commauÌ„ded them all vnto whome he gaue especiall grace to cure and make whole as you your selfe affyrme so that this allegation maketh for me And where you speake of the Angell Raphaell and S. Paule truly those holy Persons sent not the sicke folke to the Phisitions of the Cittie to be cured but rather they themselues tooke y e cure in hand béeing none of that vocatioÌ„ and how I pray you iwis not with Purgations nor blood letting nor with your Diacatulicions nor Skamonea but the one with a lyttle Wine whereof he had experience the other with the vertue of a Fishe which God gaue him for that purpose And therefore Maister mine sithens that this Office is coÌ„mon to Angelles and to men it is not iust that two or thrée should ingrate the same lyke tyrants in the Towne because forsoothe they are learned men as you say as I would to God they were But if they be in good time be it for I say not that learning hurteth any But I say that for the vse of curing it is not néedefull for I holde not such thinges necessary but only for the knowledge of cléere and euident thinges For why it is not greatly materiall to knowe the first and secrete origen of a disease but rather to knowe what dooth helpe But the inquisition and intelligence of secrete and hydden causes and the knowledge of their naturall operations and y e rest which you say is necessary to be knowen I holde for a vaine thing and also impossible For besides that the secrets of nature are incomprehensible it is playne that this is so for why those that presume to know this matter are Phisitions and Philosophers who are diuers and contrary in theyr opinions and can giue no certayne rule nor resolution For how would you that the Phisition should know the radicall cause and first origen of all infirmyties theyr opinions béeing so variable as you your selfe haue declared And why should I more beléeue Hipocrates who affyrmeth the substaunce of the matter to be in the spirites then Erasistratus who attrybuteth it to the turning backward of the blood to the arteries And why should I credite more these then others who assygned other prynciples And howe will you knowe how disguestion is made in the stomack Truly I for my part dare no more credite the one then the other Séeing there are so many opinions vpon the case for some say y t the foode boyleth with heate others say that it rotteth by way of attrycion grynding others denieth them bothe each giueth such reasoÌ„s as séeme true so y t following the opinion of any of them the cure shalbe perticuler cleane contrary the one to the other So that séeing the causes origen so diffycult y e certeynty séemeth vnpossible I sée no cause for a man to weary himself therin But only to coÌ„tent and serue our selues with the remedy that experience hath taught vs. And coÌ„sidering that it importeth not to know what caused the infirmity but only the way to cure the same Nor yet I will not trouble my selfe to know how
and learning to knowe the quallities of the heauens nor the course of Planets and Starres nor yet the bookes of heauen and world of Aristotle for why we dayly fall among naturall infirmyties with our chyldren seruaunts neyghbours therfore we ought not to be carelesse for the vse and disease doo make vs Artistes we haue nowe no neede of foundations for the auncient and coÌ„mon opinion which experience we holde for Maisters without buying the same for money howe much more men ought not to be inferior to the Fowles of the ayre and Beasts of the Wyldernesse among whome there are many that haue knowledge in medicine necessarie for theyr vse As the Harte knoweth howe to drawe out the arrowe wherwith he is wounded with an hearbe called Ditamo The Swallow giueth sight to her young ones with the hearbe Chilidonia the wylde Boore cureth with Organy And many others likewise of whom Plinie and other wryters make relation Then it should not séeme much for man to doo the like and thinke not y t it should be a thing vnméete to liue in such vniformity although you think we should erre for want of Phisitions Howbeit the greatest error is in hauing too many of them and theyr medicines Nature hath a care to heale the sicke with verie lyttle helpe for the Phisitions them selues say that Nature is he that woorketh and cureth and that they be but mynisters In this sort lyued the Romaines the time y t I haue declared and all the world accordinglye before Phisitions were knowen and the lyke at this day among the people which dwel in the MouÌ„taines and barren Countries who lyue longer and more in health then the Cittizens where medicine Phisitions abouÌ„deth Those men I say would neuer suffer Phisitions to come among them but only cure them selues with good regyment hearbes experience among whome I could name some notable persons But one will be sufficieÌ„t for all the rest who is the lyght and honor of Spayne for his incomparable doctrine and learning he is called the Comendator Hernam Nunes maister of Rethorike other Artes in the famous Uniuersity of Salamanca who as yet would neuer put his health in the handes of any Phisition and hath conserued y e same aboue 70. yéeres without their helpe You know also that in y t tyme of great Pompeius was the toppe of the Mountain is for power and dellycate Romaine wittes as Plinie wryteth and other Authors Howe Aesclepiades the famous Phisition condempned the Rules preceps of all others and cured onely with dyet rule in eating drinking and rubbing the ioyntes and members so that with these things of great experience he condempned vtterly Purgations Uomyts and such lyke the fruite of his curing dyd so much profite that he onely was praysed and admytted and infinite people came vnto him The same Plinie sayth in his 35. Chapter that he happened to cure one that was thought to be dead and caried to burying or to be burned as theÌ„ the vse was so that Aesclepiades sayde that his medicine was certayne which he affirmed of himselfe because his regiment kept them from sicknesse or else he required not to be taken for a Phisition and truly be emplyed the thing which he affyrmed for he himselfe was neuer knowen to be at any tyme sicke vntyll his death although he lyued verie long and with the fall from a Ladder he ended his lyfe So that it appeareth manifestly by mine allegations and proofes that my opinion is not new or singuler but common and of great antiquitie bothe certayne and true and for such you ought to embrace it and so I hartely pray you Wherwith all I conclude although I leaue much behinde to auoyde prolixitie Don Nunio Truly Signor Iasper you haue sayde well and I for my part am so tender of condicion that euery one hauing ended his tale carryeth me with him But yet now I will stay a whyle to heare the determination of the Signor Maister Bernardo If you will giue me leaue I promise that my aunswere shall not want But sithens the Signor Maister hath to giue sentence in Iustice so manifest béeing so iust and wise a Iudge there néedeth no farther information ¶ The Iudgement and determination of the Maister Maister Velasques TRuly Signor Dun Nunio I would gladly be frée from my bond because I sée each of these Gentlemen so earnest in theyr opinions yea and the cause so well treated and defended that I take the Plea for doubtfull But sithens the matter consisteth not in any Article of the fayth I may speake what I thinke and they shall haue what they payd Don Nunio Yet syr I pray you procéede although they are so bent to theyr opinions they referre the determynation to your learned iudgement so that they cannot chuse but humble themselues thervnto wheras reason demaundeth the same Bernardo That which Signor Don Nunio sayth is true and therin we will bothe receyue curtesie at the least I for my part excéeding great Iasper And I much greater for I beléeue assuredly his woorshippe will approoue my opinion Maister Velasques Because I holde it for a good exercise I will fulfyll your requestes and giue my vowe in the matter for I haue no iurisdiction to pronounce sentence nor yet your maistershippes bound to passe or accept the same But if I speake any thing to purpose each may accept what he please for I meane not to argue or dispute but bréefly in few woords I will speake what I thinke Your contencion principally consisteth in two points and all the rest is accessary thervnto The first is that the one sayth that for to cure humaine infirmities neither Arte nor Science is néedefull but onely suffiseth vse and experience The other sayth that Arte Rules are most néedefull and he that should cure ought to be a Maister learned bothe in Arte Science and to haue great foundation in learning as largely the matter hath bene communicated The secoÌ„d point which séemeth to come from the first is that Signor Iasper who holdeth the part of only experieÌ„ce would y t there should be no knowen Phisition but that generally all meÌ„ ought to cure And Signor Bernardo defeÌ„deth the cause sayth that it is conuenient to haue them The troth is that the first principall question is not new nor yet you the first that haue mooued and disputed the same but rather it is very auncient in medicine and among Phisitions And we say that alwayes haue bene the lyke discord for some doo follow only experience and therfore they were called Experts And other desirous to knowe the reason and causes and therefore they were named Rationalles Cornelius Celso and other Authors doo wryte thereof at large and bothe the one the other hath had great fauorers so y t of these two first extremes â—f of force the one must be accepted and the other to haue remedy The last perill and most reasonable is to follow the
who long agone made bothe Arte and Merchandize inuenting and séeking straunge and violent medicaments fylling darkning with their opinions and Cawtelles the faculties which most cleere and simply ought to be and of himselfe is and was in his beginning when men cured one another for charity and not for interest and then they cured with hearbes and vertuous symples experimented and not with venomous compositions that nowe are vsed which you knowe not what they be nor from whēce they come nor to what vse they serue nor yet howe many they be because they are so many that they are out of number The Medicine which is commended in Ecclesiastes is the same that was vsed in those good dayes But the Medicine inuented by those which you say were holden for Goddes because they discouered the vertue propertie of hearbes stones fruites and other thinges applyed them to the Passions sores and infirmities without making them Artes rules and preceptes as afterward mallice couetousnesse of men brought to passe so that before that time we foūd nothing written of medicine Hipocrates by aucthority of Marcus Varro according vnto Plinie affirmeth was the first that wrote the precepts of medicine The space of 600. yéeres the Romaines defended them selues from Phisitions and would in no wise suffer them in Rome since which tyme they neuer lyued so sound True it is that in the tyme when Enullius and Marcus Libio were Consuls which was after the foundation of Rome 535 yéeres I know not by whome perswaded they admitted a Greeke Phisition Pelotones called Archagatus vnto whome they gaue a house publique stipend and as a new thing at the beginning he pleased some men But after they had experience of his letting blood and his Cauteries with strange inuencions of curing bothe he and others that were newlye come were banished by the aucthoritie and counsell of the great Cato Censorinus who lyued 85. yéeres because you may consider what want he had of Archagatus or of any other After Cato his death the tyme running with couetousnesse ambicion and other vices then entred Phisitions into Rome So that it plainly appeareth before that time the Romaines had dyet medicines and a way to cure with all according to experience without vsing any tyranny for each neyghbour shewed vnto other the thinges that he had prooued in those dayes I say looue and charitie cured and not couetousnesse and poyson The Romaines only vsed not this good order but also the Babilonians who were learned Estrabo and Herodotus wryte that they had not knowen Phisitions and therefore they vsed when any happened to be sicke to bring him foorth into the open stréete because his neighbours and fréendes who had any experience in such diseases should giue their councell and aduise The selfe same order was vsed among the Egiptians and Portyngalles after those golden dayes Signor Bernardo Phisitions crepte into the houses of Emperors Kings among whom some were famous as Hipocrates who was the fountaine and father of them all and after him came Aristogenes into seruice with king Antigonus of Macedonia and Asclepiades his familliar who was froend of great Pompetus Antonius Muga was entertained of the Emperour Octauianus Also bothe the Appollodors of whome Plinie wryteth Cornelio Celso the Romaine the famous Erasistratus who by his singuler knowledge vnderstoode howe the disease of Antiochus was vndecent looue with his Mother in Lawe Also Galenus who now is honoured and called Prince of Phisitions with many other which now I will not name But this I knowe notwithstanding that after Phisitions began to multiply mans lyfe began to shorten And in those dayes the auncient Romaines lyued in more health then all these Princes who entertayned the Phisitions with wages and other excessiue rewardes And if you will not beléeue me let Alexander the great who you brought for an example say his opinion for he lyued not full fortie yéeres Let also the olde gray bearded men of the Mountaynes and Uillages which neuer knewe Phisitions speake their minde And let the young men of the Cittie declare also their opinions But doo you know what was the cause to admit Phisitions in Rome the great disorder whereof I spake because men would not temper and cure them selues according to y e rule of theyr Auncestors they woulde néedes giue the charge of theyr health to them that knew it not Wherevpon as Plinie affyrmeth great hurt followed to the health of man for why they left the care of them selues and gaue credite to Phisitions for theyr health and the Phisitiōs for theyr part cared no more but for the interest profit exalting theyr Arte and making ther of Merchandize yea and to giue a more comely visage to theyr newe Science that none might know the secretes therof they began to flee from common and true renredies and to vse compoundes mixtures fruites rootes hearbes neuer before seene nor heard of to deceaue and bewitch the people with the names and hydden properties and for the common remedies they sought straunge casting cleane asyde the true way and sticked fast to their new deuises Héere also began the distylling of Waters bothe of cleane and filthy thinges Héere began Syrrups bothe swéete and sower some cléere some darcke made of such conceytes that the Diuell himselfe would scarcely imagine what thing it were An other deuise also is to cause vs to eate golde stones yea and yron lyke vnto Oystrages against all nature Héere also began your Mytradate and compound Treacle made of aboue 54. things and some of them rancke poyson if euerie of them were good of himselfe the incomportable company of the one with the other maketh an horrible poyson The which Plinie almost 1800. yéeres past sayth was made by ostentation and apparaunce of his Arte for it is impossible Nature to be séene nor experience knowen nor the temper and concordaunces of so many thinges dyscordant no it can not be So that of these thinges and other lyke they haue made experience in mans body with such audacitie and at all aduentures So that in lew of giuing health they happen many-tymes to kyll the patient yea and in recompence thereof to haue his money for their labour and that which wurst is there is no punishment for them Tell me I pray you what Phisition haue you séene chastened eyther for the death or laming of any man Finally Signor Bernardo the mallice of man hath spoyled the best thing in the worlde which is in making the thing naturall an obscure Artificer charitie an interest mercie couetousnesse darckening reason so much as though none could cure but Phisitions Iesting at common experience and extolling with perswasion theyr Arte or Mysterie yea euen to the names of thinges giuing them newe barbarous and straunge tearmes saying both the Greeke and Latin names are well knowen Also in theyr writing they haue inuented Carraters and Sygnes not to be vnderstoode but of whome they deale withall for theyr Drugges so that
they procured by all meanes to darcken the thing which ought to be common and knowen of all men Then what shall I say of the diuersity of theyr doctrine and opinions The Alarbes differ from the Greekes so that among them selues they are not conformable neyther the one nor the other The order and manner of curing theyr Auicena differeth from Galenus those of antiquitie euen so much that it séemeth an other thing nor yet those of our tyme cure lyke Auicena nor lyke the other for now all consistéth in inuencioÌ„s and opinions Yea if you call two or thrée together you shall finde each to be singuler in his iudgement But when they agrée iwis it is to the great peryll of the Patient if you heare each of them by himselfe it is a myracle to finde them conformable yea theyr receytes shall be diuers and conÌ„trarie each to other It shall not néede that I make any further recytall therof for dayly you see it before your eyes thereforeÌ„ I will not weárie my selfe in the rehearsall Maister Velasques It should séeme that these Gentlemen â—ame purposely to debate this matter héerein to shewe theyr learning knowledge because I sée them so earnest therfore we may doo well to cut of and abreuiate theyr communication Don Nunio No Syr that were not iust that Phisitions should thus remaine without defence Yea and for my part I doo greatly reioyce to heare this talke Therfore let the conclusion be that sithens each of them hath had his turne although Signor Iasper hath bene somewhat long in his discourse let each of them haue another course and no more which shall be as one that wryteth his minde and an other that replyeth in our iudgement court And then I am to desire you Signor Maister to giue sentence who hath the right Iasper I for my part am content reseruing the benefite of appellation if the senteÌ„ce be not giuen in my fauour Bernardo And I for my part am also agréeed hauing so great a confidence in my Iustice and also in the iudgement of Signor Maister by meane whereof I binde myselfe to his iudgement and sentence Maister Velasques A harde matter is commended vnto me But notwithstanding I will saye what God shall giue me to vnderstand to make an ende of your contencion seauing lybertie to each of you to doo what ye please Don Nunio Me thinketh Signor Bernardo is ready for the purpose begin on Gods name ¶ Heere followeth the aunswer of Signor Bernardo Bernardo AT the begynning of our talke I thought Signor Iasper that you iested But when I heard you touch in Doctrine and Histories then I knewe that your argument was in earnest And therefore will I aunswere accordingly that which I vnderstand of the thinges which you haue spoken is in conclusion that you thinke there should be no Phisions in the worlde at the least such as were knowen to be and lyue of that vocation But rather you would haue vs all to be Phisitions and to cure one an other also you would not haue medicine by Arte confounded in Science nor Philosophy But onelye to followe experience and conference and the voyce of the people as though we should lyue in the Mountaynes where no pollicie nor discretion should be vsed These two principall points I meane to ouerthrowe as a begynning to the processe and then to aunswer some of the other mallices which you haue spoken In the fyrst poynt touching Phisitions it is a cleare case that you haue no reason for the name of a Phisition is holie and amyable and ought not to be odious vnto you séeing Christe our redéemer dyd not despise both to be called and holden for a Phisition when he was speaking of himselfe sayth he then for the whole folke néedeth not the Phisition And againe when he cured the eyes with clay and spyttle and when he appoynted for medicine of the Samaritanâ— Oyle Wine yea he letted not to cure and heale infinite infirmities and the lyke commaunded his Disciples for S. Paule Doctor of the people tooke bothe person and office of a Phisition when he wrote to Timothens willing him to drink Wine to comfort his stomacke Saint Luke the Euangelist dyd name himselfe a Phisition and letted not to giue this Office vnto the Apostles The Angell Raphaell woulde also vse this Office wheÌ„ he gaue a receyt vnto Tobias wherwith he should cure and recouer the sight of his eyes So that in this poynt you haue no waye to contend because the name of a Phisition is profitable in the world And if there haue bene some Phisitions bothe false and couetous and also haue vsed of such things wherof you haue enlarged and I thereof ignoraunt you ought not iudge nor beleeue them But notwithstaÌ„ding the wise and good ought not to be cast of it is a méete thing that there should be perticuler and appointed persons of so high an Office and misterie and not rather as you would to haue all men Phisitions and so to walke in confusion and inconstancie with ignoraunce of the people Truly this way is not only vnprofitable but also a thing impossible The example also of the Romaines wherewith you helpe your selfe who were 600. yéeres without Phisitions I say with you that it is true But yet through simplicitie and want of knowledge as they were at that time ignorant of learning and other Arts so were they wanting of Medicine But after they vnderstoode what Doctrine Science was and had receyued the same of the Greekes they then embraced also medicine as one of the most necessarie things And lykewise the Maisters who had sight therein and euen so dyd the other Nations of whome you spake of And where in the second poynt you will not that we follow or obserue precepts nor yet to haue Arte nor foundation of Science nor you will vs not to followe reason cause but only experieÌ„ce which you allowe and therfore you iudge euill of the forme and order which is obserued in medicines and their compound wherof I doo not lyttle meruayle Fyrst you know how naked experience is in Science holden for doubtfull and consideration iudgement dooth change in yéeres with complexion with tyme place and many other thinges And therfore it is necessarie for him that wyll cure to knowe these differences the secrete cause and discouerie of the infirmitie for it is a thing vnpossible the knowledge of curing vnto him that knoweth not whereof and where the disease dyd spring It is therefore néedefull that hée vnderstand the composture and complexcions of humayne bodies their humors which of them beareth rule and what disease thereof may growe For without doubt the cure must otherwyse be handled if you preuent the infirmyties of all fowre humors as many Wise men affyrme And contrarywise if the cause be in onely moysture as Eropilus holdes opinion according to the writing of Cornelius Celsor and others or in the spirits as
disgestiō is made but chéefly to know what meate is soonest disgested what is good to helpe the same Without vering my selfe to knowe the cause why nor yet I passe not to knowe what is the cause of shortnes of breath but rather y e way to remedy it without payne I will neyther know who mooueth nor how the artyres mooue but only vnderstand what signifieth the disordered moouing And also it maketh not for your purpose that you alleadge for new diseases that may happen for when any such thing doo happen he that cureth ought not to imagine what y e origen was séeing that of cōmon things he is ignorant as before I haue declared For it is sufficient to consider how the lyke infirmity hath bene cured without medicine and so by experience we may hyt on the certeynty As for example the disease of the Poxe how ignorant were Phisitions in the cure as long as they went by Sciēce Arte But after experience had taught vs y e vse of the wood called Lignum Vite or Lignū Sanctum How notoriouslie were the diseases cured without the knowledge of the origen of the disease nor yet the cause why the sayd medicine dooth helpe It séemeth also vnto you a necessarye thing the Anathomy of dead bodyes and in my iudgement it is a thing of small effect yea I rather holde it for a kinde of crueltie For true it is in such an Anathomy there remayneth neyther the proper cullor softnes or hardnes or any other liuely thing which you say was in the members of the dead and wounded bodyes which are abyding in the lyue sound bodyes for if there be in a whole and liuely man colde feare wearines or any other meane affect or alteration which make exterior notorious chaūges in the cullor and posture of the face it is much more lyke the interior members which are more delycate to change and alter with a straunge ayre And truly I holde it for a méere madnes to beléeue that the Armony and consert which is in y e liue body of a man is to be found in one that lyeth a dying or is already dead Now if the Anathomy were of any effect or coulde giue any lyght for the health of man there dayly chaunceth men to be slayne in the warres and by other mischaunces where without crueltie but rather to cure theyr woundes they might make experience without the spoyling and breaking vp of mannes fleshe by him that hath professed rather to heale it And where you say that such men experimented are Fallares because they chaunge with age and tyme I say that experience found out those chaūges and not Arte so that to experience all is due and by the same all is obtayned Moreouer the aunsweres which you make to my reasons are so weake that they néede no reply at all And where you say that Phisitions are not the cause of vices and diseases because they counsell none to distemper them selues but rather cure theyr hurte receyued by distemperance But I say because some men haue such confidence in them they encorrage them selues to be gluttons and dysordered persons yea and some tymes they giue them such counsell But sithens that Signor Maister is héere present marke what Saint Ambrose sayth vpon the. Cviij Psalme which is The preceptes of Medicine are contrarie to the diuine counselles because they forbyd fasting and permit no Uigilles yea they will compell men in such sort that he who giueth himselfe there vnto shall vtterly deny himselfe And where againe you would defend Phisitions from punishment by the Lawes of Plato I aunswere that it is first néedefull that you bring the approbation of those Lawes from the Emperour for without that your Lawes are of small effect but although they were Plato dooth not salue but onely hée that cureth well by whome if any mischance happen he is faultlesse But I spake vnto you onely of such as knowe not what they doo which is the cause that they erre in that which they take in hand and where there is on the earth no punishment for such I beseeche God to chasten them for it is a hard case that only Phisitions are neuer ignorant of any thing But if you goe to an Aduocate or Counsellor in the Law with any hard question he will aunswer that be will study the cause If you goe to a Diuine he will oftentimes make theyr aunswere and so will men of other faculties But the Phisition wyll incontinent make aunswer to a thousand diseased solke if they demaund any thing Yea they iudge it a lesser faulte to erre then to confesse that they know not Likewise their errors and euill successe they will not let to lay on some body eyther the disorder of the Patient or the mallice of the humor and whether I say true or no I put you for witnesse And where you say that I vnderstand not y e properties vertues of medicines cōpounds I aunswer that you say true and I affirme the same say that neyther the Phisitions nor yet their Auicena vnderstood them nor yet is it possible to vnderstand the Armony and temper of 300. thinges together and therefore they are abhominable And for my part I will yéelde no thankes for the inuencion of them as you commaund Neyther yet holde I for profitable the Muske Siuit and Amber although they are of delectable swéetnes in Odor for we might wel be without them for they profit not so much the health of the body but in as many tymes they are hurtfull to the soule And sithens you are so wholy iudging that those names darke receypts are not made by industry mallice I pray you be a meane héereafter to kéepe me from occasiō of sinne to induce them to Phisitions to make theyr receyptes with a fayre plaine letter in our language then I will iudge as you doo So that now Signor Bernardo séeing that your argumentes and aunsweres vnto mine are of no efficacie or strength you ought to put them cleane from your opinion and that you disturbe not medicine to be commonly knowen and let vs not permytte to be subiect to two or thrée Wherof Plinie complayneth because we will not knowe what is good for vs and so we goe vpon other mens séete we eat with other mens appetite whervpon our lyfe and health is an arbitrement Be not so curious in this matter as to spend in learning to study in the Uniuersitie all your lyfe tyme by meane of which paynes you may gette more disease then by your study you might learn to cure So to conclude it is sufficient what I haue sayde to approoue that Experience dyet good regiment sufficeth principally for our health Therefore let vs not séeke rationall experience but embrace the experimentall And thinke not that medicine was found before reason for the good Husbandman and the Marriner by vse and practise came to be Maisters and not by study
first as Aristotle sayth that those of experience are most fit and able to cure then the learned without experience And speaking perticulerly Plato of Phisitions in his bookes of common weale affyrmeth that a good Phisition néedeth to communicate bothe with sick and whole men yea and that he himself haue bene also sicke finally the ought to be experimented and also there is no doubt but that medicine and Arte therof had his origen of experience and no otherwise So that in this case Signor Bernardo hath no reasoÌ„ to deny the same for certaynly the experieÌ„ces béeing knowen men as amazed began thereby to enter into Philosophy and thereby to séeke out bothe reasons and causes and so is this true in other actes as well as in medicine whereof is aucthor Aristotle in his bookes of high Philosophy and also Marcus Manillius and Virgill doo testifie the same saying by vatiable cases experience made Arte. And because I doo not remember which of these GeÌ„tlemen alleadged Saint Ambrose I doo remember nowe that fauouring and holding part with Medicine he dooth say and affirme in the same I will therfore declare his woords because his aucthority is great which are these Where sayth he had Medicine origen but onely of infirmitie And where in the first age men would teache theyr successors and Decendentes what thinges had done them good and wherewith they cured theyr diseases whereby vse made Arte and infirmitie made maisterie and that is the first and sufficient medicine which experience made and not the coniecture and therefore they were called Expert so that out of this sort sprung the other and from thence tooke his vse force so that woord for woord S. Ambrose affyrmes the same But to auoyde wearinesse I alleadge not other reasons and aucthorities for therein is no doubt at all but that experience was origen to medicine totally necessarie But yet notwithstanding those that were named expert remayne not victors who will not allowe any other thing but onely experience nor yet are ouercome The Rationalles which followeth Arte because betwixt these two opinions there is a thyrd a meane which ought to be obserued and that is That although experience was and is the origen and without the same we can not well craue this faculty yet notwithstanding after the expected preceptes Arte was profitable and not onely profitable but also necessary as well for the inconstancie and chaunges which are in experience as by reasons Héere hath bene touched as well to chuse and know the best which without learning were vnpossyble to doo For it is a playne case that without learning and doctrine you can not make an intiere iudgement and election And if this thing should not be reduced to Rules and Arte all should be confusion and forgetfulnes and discord would confound all so that if onely experience should be admytted Yet Arte and Rules thereof should be needefull to knowe and learne howe and at what tymes in what places at what ages in what dispositions to what infirmities and to what occations theâ—â—â—ofit to some and what vnto others and hereof perforce wée can not be without Rules and meanes and this is the Arte which may not be wanting for although experience hath bene the origen and knoweth howe to finde but not to kéepe But Arte dooth kéepe and conserue also you haue no leysure euerie day to make experience nor all men can not make euerie proofe nor yet to carrie in minde the thinges that hath bene done without Rule and artifice therof And for proofe of a thing so notorious it shall not néede many reasons nor aucthorities for the experience wée haue before our eyes that there is no worke nor occupation so base which is not guyded by Arte and reason The Husbandman and the Marriner of whome Signor Iasper spake saying vse maketh maisterie Although the same were so yet they can not want theyr Regimentes grounded vpon experience wherby they were guyded and learned theyr Arte to be a lyght to teach others the thinges whereof experience neuer wanted vnto them The like dooth the Mason the Carpenter and other Artificers who ioyntly with vse and experience haue their foundatioÌ„ and Rules And sithence medecin hath a more precious and higher suiect it is no reason that it should by them be deminished how much more many of the other causes and knowledge of other things which already hath béen argued and although same will say that to know such thinges should not notoriously be necessary Yet at the least they cannot deny but that it is profitable also although the same should not make a Phisition more perfit yet he should be made more discréet and aduised all which things can not be brought to passe without the learning of Arte and Rules if these things are difficult many they are not therefore to be refused nor yet the knowledge of them as Signor Iasper affyrmeth we know well that Arte is long but yet coÌ„tinuall labour and goodwill ouercommeth And also if all may not be known yet passe with the possible and most necessarie and though there be varietie in oppinions yet also their are determinations and resolucions there are also Phisitions and Counsell for all wherof the good Phisition ought to be replenished more then an other of this opinion are the moste of the wise and learned Aucthors But chéefely Plato in his booke of Rethorick saith for this cause is Arte the medecyn for why it is a faculty that dooth consider know the nature of him that cureth and the cause of the thing that worketh and can of those thinges giue a sufficient reason And that which is alledged is not to be vnderstood only necessary to cure the infirmytie but also a way to sustaine the health for although Signor Iasper say that we know how to eate and drinke without counsell of the Phisition or other Arte by only experience true it is but he that so dooth vsing temperaunce dooth follow counsels and Rules and also aduises giuen by Phisitions and wise men and not so dooing commonly is caused infyrmitye And euen so the moste Sapient Cicero in his second booke of Offices affyrmeth that for to gouerne and sustaine health is needefull for a man to know his owne complexion and to abstaine from suche thinges that offende him and to vse of other thinges which agrée and are profitable for him and to followe the counsell and Arte of them who knowe the same meanyng the Phisitions So that to conclude for with men so graue and wise I néede not to enlarge The resolucion and my vowe is touching the first poynte which was if onely experience were sufficient or else if Arte and learning were néedefull of which two wants in a Phisition The want of learning is more to be suffered than the want of experience but also that the perfit Phisition ought to be expert and learned so that the Medecine muste appeere on bothe sides that is aswell in the
by your authoritie and eloquence Bernardo I for my part doo holde myselfe satisfied and doo consent in the determination of Signor Maister and I thinke Signor Iasper will doo the like and so we may depart as we came Iasper I cannot chuse but kéepe silence to the thing that Signor Maister hath sayd and the same ought to be moste certaine sithence he hath so pronounced but yet in my iudgement I thinke it not conuenient to cure with Phisitions but rather take diet and good Regiment to be sufficient yea and I haue heard them their selues say that to cure therewith is a moste happy cure so that still I will follow experience and counsell and you not able to condemne me and for the other matters let them passe in good time as Signor Maister hath declared and so we may depart and God giue vnto your Worship entire health that you neuer néede any Phisition but onely that you may dye of age Don Nunio Patience is good for aduersytie but yet I wyll not that ye depart vntill Signor Maister hath tolde his tale touching the Phisitions of Ferrara And with his tale Disputation shall ceasse for this day for it is not late and time there is for all Maister Velasques Because Signor Iasper shall pacifie his anger I will recite the tale although he hath read the same as well as I the History is That on a time Nicholaus Marquesse of Ferrara sporting and iesting with his Iester he enquired of him of what Science or occupation were most number in Ferrara the Iester aunswered saying sir the moste in number of any one trade are Phisitions the Marquesse hearing this aunswer laughed him to scorn saying thou idiot séest y u not that of y t facultie there is not in the Citty aboue fiue or sire and I am sure there is aboue 300. Shoomakers and as many of many other Occupacions The Iester aunswered sir where your Lordship is occupied in great matters you haue no particuler recknings nor yet you know what nomber of Massailes you haue but beléeue me sir I haue told you troth y t of the Art of medecin is the greatest nūber in Ferrara and I dare lay 200. Ducats that you shall finde it so The Marquesse began to laugh againe and to deny his opinion and in conclusion the wager was layde although he iudged it for simplicity and madnes and so he soone forgot what he had layd But the Iester who had great desire of the money that was laide hauing well considered the matter The next day in the morning he arose being Sonday and wrapped clouts about his head Towe and Wooll bounde to his chéekes fayning that he was wonderfully vexed with the tootheache and in this order he sate him downe at the doore of the Cathedrall Church of the Cittie and had sitting by him a boy who was his sonne that had good skill in writing this lad had his Pen Inkehorne and Paper now the Iester being a man so commonly knowen in the Cittie the people that entered and came out of the Church asked of him the cause of his sicknes and he made aunswer to euery one that he had a maruelous paine in his téeth and Gummes desiring them for Gods sake to giue him some remedy for the same and where we generally vse to giue coūsel to those whom we sée suffer any pain as many as passed by tolde him what to take although some one thing and some another So that his boye foorth with wrote euery mans name that had giuen any remedy and hauing abode there the time conuenient and his copie of names and medcines full and in the pickle that he sate at the Church dore he went to the Marquesse Pallace who had cleane forgottē his wager as the Marquesse espied him he as other had doone enquired the cause of his greefe and being answered as the others were he of gentlenes tolde him of remedy wherewith he should be whole The Iester sayde sir kisse your Honours handes and after a while that he had abode there he went his way home to his house and caused all his processe to be writtē fayre which amounted to néere 500. persons who were all Phisitions and the Lord Marquis was placed for the first and principallist in the copie and euery mans medecine ioyned with his name the next day he came to y e Lord Marquesse Pallace without his rags about his head as a whole man saying right Honourable sir now I am whole and I thanke God cured by the moste honourablest Phisition of all Italy which is you for with your good counsell I obtained my health Therfore I pray you commaund to pay the wager for assuredly for my disease I founde all these Phisitions in Ferrara that are here contayned in this memoriall and if I would haue fought for more iwis I had found more The Marquesse beholding the roule of names and medecines and séeing himselfe the first man and many other principall persons of the Cittye he laughed and confessed that he had lost his wager and commaūded the same to be payde foorth with which truely was a merry iest So that if Signor Iasper be contented with suche Phisitions I say he hath reason and shall finde aboundaunce Don Nunio By my trothe the tale is pretie and to be laughed at with reason I wyll therefore stay you no longer depart on Gods name Iasper The Iester was pleasaunt but I promise you on my faith that if he had the tootheache in déede he mought haue béen cured with the counsels giuen vnto him And I would rather trust the 500. Phisitions contained in the memoriall then the fiue or sixe which the Lord Marquesse spake of And with this conclusion Signor Bernardo let vs depart for although we haue béene earnest in our Disputation yet we wyll depart as good fréendes as we came hether FINIS T. N. Entrance of the gentlemen A pretie example A pretie conclusion