there and so much the more should I coufound my selfe in the imagination therof If I went about to shew them as y â— I found all the same so confused and disordered Marforius Is there no differeÌ„ce betwene the dampned soules in such maner as Danthe or Virgill speaketh of are not y â— princes at the least deuided from the base people or is there no order at all Pasquine The best obserued order that there is is the disorder and confusion that alwayes and euery where is there to be séene Marforius Is there at the least no difference in paynes some in more some in lesse Pasquine Yea that there is for thou knowest that the Lorde sayth You shall receyue the greater iudgement And many there are that are more tormented then other that in thys worlde were accompted happye men Marforius I pray the declare vnto me the whole euen in such sorte as thou thinkest best Pasquine The nerer still that we approched to these places of miserye the more did we féele our eares eyes and nose to be stricken with straunge and dolefull noyses with thicke and troublous smoke with stinke of Brimstone that could not be abidden and when we were come to those places we saw on euery syde woes there the pleasaunt noise of Insturmentes are woes swéete songs are woes feasting and baÌ„ketâ—ing are woes there discourses and loue toyes are woes playes and pastimes are woes huntings and goodly painted storyes are woes sights and triumphes are woes occupations and marchandises all sortes of pleasure and exercise and of euery other thing is nothing but woes and among all these woes there is one as if it were king and Prince of the other which is the vtter depriuation of al hope to come out of these woes All are tormented wyth fire and Brimstone as Saint Iohn sayth in his reuelation and the smoke of their tormentes ascendeth vp for euer and euer And they neuer haue rest neyther day nor nyght and they cry pieteously to the Lorde and the Lorde heareth them not Then knewe they playnly that all worldly thinges that were causes to bring them thether are but vanityes and they would repent but there repentance helpeth them not wherfore they blaspheme the name of God feling the dolor of their tormentes gnawe their owne tongues for sorowe and rage and féele an intollerable thriste and in so greate burning they drinke of the cuppe of Gods wrath for their greater torment they sée the happynesse of the blessed and from their eyes continually raine teares from their mouthes issue gnasshing of téeth and they still burne and neuer are burned and they séeke death and death flyeth from them and yet are they still in death and shall be for euer so that they styll dye and neuer giue ouer to death And in effect there is no trouble sorowe miserie vnhappinesse nor afflection what so euer it be in this worlde that in comparison of that they féele in hel is not pleasant And this know for truth that I can not by talke make thée vnderstaÌ„d the very least part of that which by sight I comprehended thinke thou then what that is that they must nedes continually comprehende by féeling Marforius Thou makest me tremble from toppe to toe hearing thée tell such horrible and fearefull torments the which do so much y â— more put me in feare as that I knowe them to be true for in the Apocalipse and in manye other places of the scripture a man may reade the things that agrée iust with thy saying But I woulde fame learne of thée whether they were naked or clothed Pasquine They are all naked and do shew the filthinesse of their nakednesse Marforius How can this hang together Didst thou not say that their bodyes are yet in the earth Howe do they then shewe the filthinesse of their nakednesse Pasquin Thou knowest that while we be in our mothers wombe we haue about vs a certayne fleshe that couereth vs the which so sone as we come forth into the light of this worlde it doth leaue vs and goe from about vs it is called in Latine Secundina That same is our owne laweful and naturall clothing the which for al that serueth vs not but while we be in the darknesse of our mothers wombe but as sone as we come into the light we remayne naked if we prouide vs not things from other and if therefore we wil couer our nakednesse we clothe our selues wyth the Woll of the shéepe Euen iust so is it of the nakednesse that nowe I tell thée of for while we be in the darkenesse of this worlde we may well couer our selues wyth our owne proper merites and good works but forthwith as we enter into the light of gods presence these merites of ours which are nothing else but flesh and syâ—ne goe from vs and forsake vs and we come to remaine naked vnlesse we cloth our selues w t the wol of that moste méeke shepe that without opening his mouth was led to the slaughter to cloth vs with hys woll and féede vs with his flesh and to giue vs drinke with his bloude euen with the bloude of that méeke Lambe of God that taketh awaye the sinnes of the worlde These men therefore of whom we spake bycause they were not clothed with this woll that is to wete the merites of Iesus Christ shewe forth the filthinesse of their nakednesse not that nakednesse of the body but that of the soule for as much as their sinnes mischieuous déedes there euil thoughts and all other their filthynesse are openly shewed and seene Marforius What kinde of people be they shewe me some particularity Pasquine There are some Hebrevves some Caldeans some ArabiaÌ„s some Indians some Africanes some Svvithians some Turkes some Moores some Christians as Dutchmen Frenchmen Spaniards Italians riche poore men women and finally aâ— sortes of people Marforius Of which sorte is there the greatest number Pasquine Of those that haue worshipped the beast and his Image and haue receyued his marke and haue committed fornication with hir and are dronken with the wine of hir whoredome Marforius I vnderstand not this talke of thine Pasquine In the middes of the bottomlesse pitte I sawe a very great Dragon of redde colour which had seueÌ„ heades and euery heade had a crowne and ten great hornes and a tayle of an vnmeasurable length with the which he had drawen to the bottomlesse pit an vnspeakeable incompreheÌ„sible nuÌ„ber of the people of y â— world Beside this Dragon I saw a beast with seauen heades ten hornes and euery horne had a crowne with a skinne like a Leoparde and hauing the féete of a Beare and the mouth of a Lyon and to thys beast the Dragon had giuen his full power his seate and great authority wherby y â— Dragon was worshipped bycause he had giuen power to
Epitaph saying Here lyeth Ecchius buried full lowe That loued well wyne and belly chere Where his soule is seeke not to knowe For those were his Gods while he was here Marforius A pleasant Epitaphe and méete for such a paunche This that thou sayest maketh mée the better to beleue it bycause I haue séene Pope Lion the tenth for his great fatnesse had much a doe to goe vp three steppes in Saint Peters Palace whereby I conclude that muche lesse therefore shall be able to flye to heauen and especially when he hath no wings But what canst y â— tell me of Albert Byshop of Chioggia Pasquine I saw him in the middest among Pelagius Arrius Manichaeus and many other he was altogether ful of hepinesse Marforius Knowest thou the cause why Pasquine I would nedes vnderstand the matter And it was tolde me for there was come thyther a Fryer of Saint Fraunces of the Uine who had tolde him that he had séene in Venice a Shoppe where they sell Pilcherdes full of his workes which were solde by waighte to them that kepte Shoppes Marforins I think that y â— like wil hap one day to al the writings of the founders of this heauen But tel me was there none other loked for there Pasquine Many were looked for but most chiefly was one Iohn Cocles looked for bycause he was already canonized a Sainte by the Pope and appointed to this heauen There was looked for also one Costazarus and one Cornelius who with his Phariseicall and frierish opinions stoutly fighting against Christ had gotten the Bishoprike of Bertinoro or to saye more truely of Bruteonor Marforius What was spoken of them Pasquine Of Costazarus I hearde that these Gods were all wonderously offeÌ„ded with him for he had deceyued his God the Pope Marforius And how Pasquine I will tell thée Preaching in a Lent season in Spoleti he made a bargain with the Serattanes who are all coÌ„mon pickepurses to part the gaine betwene them and so published certain false bulles of the pardones of Clement the .vij. the which pardoned al maner of sinne and mischiefe to him that woulde paye a piece of mony therefore But first he let passe halfe the lent before he published his Bulles that the length of the tyme shoulde not discouer his knauerie therefore when he sawe it was time he cast forth his nettes and drewe a great quantitie of golden fyshes The CitizeÌ„s of Spoleti who are as craftie as the Deuill smelled oute the deceit and he no lesse craftie than they was ware that they perceyued it and so withoute bidding his hoste farewell departed and lefte the nettes but the fishe he caried away with him Marforius There was a conning Fisher but what was concluded by these Gods concerning him Pasquine To forgyue him so that he follow his old wickednesse and aboue all things to beware that he deceiue y â— Pope no more nor speake ought against him Marforius And of Cornelius what was said Pasquine They commended him much seing him so valiauntly in the Councell defende the Popes cause against Christ. And they were led away to the great glory and renowme of this heauen And euen very then was come a letter of his in the which he shewed his diligence and made those reuerend fathers vnderstand how Venice and all Italy was ful of Lutherans y â— they did coÌ„tinually increase Marforius These newes must nedes much displease those that were aboue Pasquine Thou mayst be sure of that And they were also vengeance angry against the Pope Marforius Alas man against the Pope and why Pasquine For they looked for an other to come to this heauen that had built so many Churches of stone so many Chappels so many Aultars so many furnitures for them and so many other things for the conseruation prayse and glory of this heauen that fewe were like vnto him And the Pope bycause he gaue him not the Byshopricke of Verona hath nowe lost him altogether and as the letters of the little Gréeke sayde this gentleman is now aboute to forsake them and to ioyne him selfe to Iesus Christ their mortall enimye Marforius If these newes displeased them it doth the more please me for to tell the truth they are growen into suche a deadly hatred with me bycause they are so bitter enimies to my Lorde God that I feare I shall not liue to sée them all destroyed But followe on the rest Pasquine We came to the fourth streate where the Martirs are Marforius What doe they there Pasquine All of them muche disdayning their deathes sought by all meanes to giue to men the punishement which they them selues suffred O I will tel thée a mery pastime that happened while I was there I hearde a great noyse I saw euery man run I runne for company and I saw Saint Rocke and Saint Bastian that were together by the eares Saint Rocke had his lefte hand vpon the nose and all ouer Saint Bastians face and with his right hande bobbed him about the head with his Palmers staffe Saint Bastian on the other side he had with one hande caught holde of Saint Rockes bearde and with the other hauing drawen oute of his thighe one of his Arrowes was about to haue thruste it through Saint Rockes sides and if the other blessed Saintes had not come betwene them there must nedes haue bene the Diuell and all to doe Marforius Wherefore fought they Pasquine Bycause eche of them pretended to be Master ouer the plague Marforius Howe agréed they Pasquine It was concluded that one of them shoulde haue the Plague and the other the Pestilence As I tolde thée therfore a little before all these Martyrs thinking scorne of their deathes sought to giue to men that punishment that they them selues â—ad suffered And therefore Saint Anthony thought to fasten his fire vpon some one Saint Rocke his plague Saint Bastian his PestileÌ„ce Saint Apolonia the Toothaches Saint Blase the disease of the throte Marforius What straunge things be these I haue heard that they haue helped suche as had these diseases but what profite get thei by this cruelty of theirs Pasquine What thing is it that maketh thee so muche to estéeme the Pope Marforius Feare for with sworde fire and water he punisheth who so euer abateth one â—ote of his power and kingdome Pasquine Thou sayest true these be the arguments with the which he disputeth against the Gospell But if he had no power to do this to thee howe muche then wouldest thou esteeme him Marforius But little Pasquine May feare therefore of other mens power doe so muche among men as to make one of a man a God Marforius Yea out of doubt for feare made the first Gods in the worlde Pasquine Much more therefore oughtest thou to thinke that this commeth to passe concerning Saintes who are other maner of fellowes than the Pope Marforius
being king of al together sayeth notwithstanding that he is not king of this world saying My kingdome is not of this vvorlde and if it vvere of this vvorlde my ministers vvoulde surelye fight And in manys other places the same sayeth calling Sathanas king and Prince of this worlde and of this darkenesse saying Novv shal the Prince of this vvorld be cast out And in the desert Sathan promised him all the kingdomes of the vvorlde if he vvould fall dovvne and vvorship him Marforius I pray thée Pasquine enter not into this heresie that Christ is not Lord ouer the world hast thou not read that in the name of Iesus al knées shoulde bowe of things in heauen of things in earth and things vnder the earth Pasquine Thou knowest not yet what this worde worlde meaneth in the scripture Marforius And what meaneth it else but this vnmeasurable frame or engine Pasquine Yes Marforius an other thing the Scripture calleth the world the ambitioÌ„ the couetousnesse the lechery and all those other thinges that sauour of nothing else but the flesh so that the flesh the worlde the diuell are those thrée furies that with their firebrandes and their Serpentes make an entermingling and confusion of all thinges Marforius Why then these fatte Friers that say they forsake the worlde â—arye it with them into the Monastaries Pasquine Yea out of doubt it is not possible to sée the worlde better than in the Monasteries where a man shall sée nothing else but affections and passions of minde with the which they seke to aduaunce them selues or to driue the one the other out of the doores Marforius Thou sayst truth but follow on a little Pasquine Bicause I coulde not therefore knowe the nature of this God that séemeth to gouerne worldlye thinges so blonderingly I sought to know him by his officers and seruauntes for that it séemed to me that he gouerneth al thinges by meanes of certaine demigods Marforius Whom callest thou demigods Pasquine Those that the grosse people call Saintes Marforius Beware I pray thée that thou speake nothing against the saintes but well for thou knowest in how great estimation they be with the worlde Pasquine God kéepe me from speaking euil of his frendes I go not about to tell thée other than the truth neither shall I at any time be charged to haue spoken any thing that is euill or wicked except it be by suche as woulde call the truth wickednesse Marforius Lette it not séeme straunge to thée that there be nowe a dayes suche men as doe labour so to call it Pasquine For suche kinde of crueltie I care not I knowe that the truthe can not be but truth Marforius Returne a little to thy purpose for me thought thou was framing an argument à minori ad mains or to be better vnderstoode à delegato ad ordinarium Pasquine Thou speakest like a right Canonist And to satisfie thy desire I say that finding no meane to cleare my selfe of this doubt with my selfe I sayde what the Diuell of holinesse goodnesse or equitie finde I in these saintes that now a dayes are so worshipped of the world that haue taken in hand the gouernment of worldly things Who if they nowe be or do that which sometime they were or that is sayde they were or did I shall sone consider what is the order of this gouernement if not yet haue I cause to doubt And forthwith it came in my minde to make a comparison of the lynes of Saintes and of their state while they were lyuing with their presente â—â—ate nowe hoping by this meanes to sée if the Saintes that liued sometime be the selfe same that they say raigne nowe in heauen and together with Christ doe gouerne al or else whether those be different and haue there aboue other nature and other condicions Marforius And what an arrogancie is this of thée wilte thou be a iudge ouer Saintes Pasquine No no frende Marforius let it neuer please God that I shoulde be a iudge ouer his frendes who can not sinne any more neither be spotted with any worldly affection but I would séeke onlye as I sayd if those be they that gouerne so or else if there be other vnder their name that haue none other thing of the saint but the bare name Marforius What is that thou sayest what a presumptuous boldenesse shoulde this be thinkest thou that there be any that vsurpe the names of saintes and vnder that godly name deceiue the world Pasquine As though the thing were to bée doubted Knowest thou not that the Diuell vnder the forme of an Angell of light worketh all his deceytes for if he shoulde shewe him selfe plainly as he is none woulde beleue him Knowest thou not that Superstition and Hipocrisie are the Diuelles Retorique with the whiche he maketh the worlde beleue al that he listeth Beholde the Fryers I pray thée thinkest thou that they woulde euer haue bene able to make the worlde beleue so many manifest falshoodes and foolishe â—oyes if they had not learned this art of the Diuell Marforius Why then their coates hoodes and sundry colours are they deuised by the Diuel Pasquine Yea out of doubt for if they were the same that they woulde be counted what nede shoulde there be of such disguised garmentes the whiche say they do signifie that whiche they ought to be This is a cleare case that while there is shadowe signification of the thing there is not the thing it selfe If they were in dede what shoulde they nede to séeke so to appeare Marforius I haue heard in dode that outwardly they be one thing inwardly an other Pasquine Thou mayst be sure of y â— if thou beleue the Gospell whiche saythe That there shall come vvolues to deuour vs clad in shepe skinnes by cause they vvill not be knovven for righte well thou knowest y â— one shepe eateth not another Marforius Thou tellest me Pasquine greate matters and suche as I neuer heard before and yet haue I studied many yeares the Canon lawe and in the subtil pointes of Iohn Brokenshinne and yet did I neuer reade these thinges which haue in them somewhat more than euery man vnderstandes Tell me now how thou madest this comparison for I remembre I read in Plato that it is a goodlye way to finde out the truth to seperate the thinges that are like from those that are different And I thinke this same be it that our Logitians speake of that contraries being layd together are the better discerned Pasquine Thou sayest wel but to come to the poynte Take thou which thou wiltâ— among all the Saintes yea if thou wouldest take the Uirgin Marye who hath the chiefest place and then consider well after what sorte she was in tymes past while she liued and in what sorte she
is nowe after she became to be Diefied And thou shalt finde that I doubt not without cause whether she that is set vpon the Aultars be the selfe same that was mother of the Lord. Marforius Make thou Pasquine this comparison for herein thou hast a better iudgement than I beside that by vs Canonistes comparisons are couÌ„ted odious Pasquine So I wil sith it pleaseth thée but aunswere me a little to that I will aske thée for so the matter shall be the clearer what deest thou thinke that the mother of the Lorde was in times past Marforius If we will beleue the scriptures she was a Uirgin moste chaste moste modest in behauiour moste holy most humble aboue all other creatures Pasquine And also very well learned in holy scripture full of charity towarde the poore without anye iote of couetousnesse without desire of gayne or ryches not deuouring the price of the Dogge not estéeming Beades nor costly garmentes Is it not so Marforius Marforius Yea truely but what callest thou the price of the Dogge Pasquine That which by vowe for wicked requestes if they come to passe is giuen to hir Marforius I vnderstand thée well Pasquine Thou séest therfore what she was once now tel me what thou thinkst by this y â— with so much wax with so much golde siluer with so many chaynes brouches with so many perfumes the world doth at this day honor Marforius I can not tel what to say of hir Pasquin I maruel of thée y â— thou sayest y â— canst not tel what to say of hir in so cleare a matter Marforius Maruell not at all thereat For this Religion wherein I haue so long time liued hath in such sorte blinded me y â— albeit I would I can not nor dare not giue this iudgemeÌ„t Thou knowest what a great matter it is to be borne bred vp in any Religion many times it is of greater force to be bred vp in it than to be born in it as we se of the Ianichers Beside that I doubt that if I should say any thing against hir she would forthwith be reuenged vpon me Pasquine If thou wouldest continue in thy false Religion approuing it to be good by this meaâ—es the Turkes and Moores will continue in their owne yet shalte thou not be able to say that theirs is false But yet for all this thine opinion doest thou not graunt me that she is not the very same Marforius Thou talkest with me after the maner of Socrates in his disputatioÌ„s vnderstanding not the end where about thou goest Pasquine HarkeÌ„ therfore Marforius Of force thou must graunt me this that all Sainctes ought to follow the eternall father and his sonne Iesus Christ. Marforius This can I neuer deny Pasquine The father is not desirons of reuenge as thou séest for he maketh his sonne to rise vpon the bad the good Marforius Oh what great gâ—â—dnesse is that Pasquine Beside that christ dyed for sinners of whom he should rather haue bene reuenged prayed for them that put him to death Moreouer thou hast his mercifull promise coÌ„firmed with an othe which sayth I will not the death of a sinner but rather that he repent and liue Marforius Oh true benignity and humblenesse of heart Pasquine Thou sayest well thou wilte graunt me also that Christ commaunded those that be his that they should learne of him to be méeke and humble of heart Marforius It is true Pasquine Wherfore then art thou afrayd y â— the Sainctes as cruel Tirans desirous of reuenge would doe thée harme Marforius Bycause I sée that in manye places they haue done straunge and cruell miracles Pasquine Doest thou thinke that if they had bene aliue they woulde so haue done Marforius No not I for if their Historyes be true a man may sée that they were moste wonderfully pacient euen vnto the death Pasquine How canst thou then beleue that these Saintes that I speake of and those I spake of before are due selfe thing Marforius Their miracles make me to beleue it Pasquine What knowest not thou that Antichrist with his monstruous miracles must put the worlde in confusion Marforius I haue heard say so but this is yet looked for to come with the Messias of the Iewes Pasquine And if he were here nowe wouldest thou any whit the better consider these myracles Marforius And howe can I knowe that he is here nowe Pasquine By the signes that Christ hath taught vs among the whiche there is one moste manifest where he sayth when you shall sée the abhomination of desolation standing in the holy place Marforius And what meaneth that Pasquine It meaneth that wheÌ„ we shall sée in the place where God onely ought to be honoured that other Goddes are worshipped That is the temple of Antichrist and the abhomination For what thing can be more against Christ than to driue Christ out of his temple and to put other in his place to whome it is attributed to worke miracles and many other notable feates And why doe these miracles so much moue thée knowest thou not that where they are ryfest there is the lesse signe of faith and commonly those signes are foretokens of the destruction of common wealthes and decay of Cityes For these Gods seing the most high god angry for their naughty Religion and that he will altogether ouerthrow this worldly common wealth to the ende the people should not waxe wyser so espye their doinges they kéepe them entangled with these miracles to the which they runne like shéepe for their last refuge in their troubles And euen so was it by Baal in the olde Testament that the more the Lorde was by that kinde of worshipping honoured by the prophets so much the more did the miracles increase it was sene y â— Baals miracles had theÌ„ greater force than the worde of the Lorde so that vntill the captiuitie of Babilon for feare and for the Religion of miracles the Iewes could not rid them selues of the worshipping of Baal nay they said sometime that bicause they had left of worshipping of him that was cause of all their miseryes as may be sene in Ieremy where he sayth Since we lefte of to do sacrifice to the Quéene of heauen we haue had scarsitie of all thinges And to the ende thou knowe it these Goddes hurte none but such as beleue in them but to those that dispise them they can do no hurt at all for if they could they would long sithens haue destroyed all Almaine and all the townes of the Svvychers who haue destroyed these Goddes and chaunged the prices of them into a better vse Marforius Sith thou sayest that Antichrist raigneth now couldest thou shewe me what he is Pasquine I can righte well shewe thée him if thou canst and wilte abide
without superstitions and falshoods commaundeth vnto vs the loue of God and of our neighbour it is therefore no maruel that the Iewes and Turkes become not Christians seing the Christians deuided into so many sectes with the which also they dare take vpon them to call them selues spirituall being altogether carnall Paule in the first to the Corinthians cryeth out against these sects saying If any of you say I holde of Pâ—ule an other I holde of Appollo an other I holde of Cephas the fourth I holde of Christ are ye not carnal is Christ deuided Marforius I knowe these errours very wel I will that from henceforth thou be my Gratâ—an and my Panormitan but thou shouldest preach this about the streates Pasquine I woulde gladly do it but I feare the decrée of that flemish Pope Marforius Peraduenture thou meanest Adrian Thou canst not speake Dutch wel Pasquine Atrian thou must say for so a man may sée in his Epitaph Marforius Thou nedest not doubt any more of him for he is dead Pasquine So woulde God that this that now is and all that shall come after were with all their traine and trash that belong vnto them but yet for al this there want no priute watchers I haue heard say y â— Chietti hath spoken the Diuell and all againste me in that théeuishe consistorie Marforius And why Pasquine Bicause I tolde him his true proper natural name that is to say hâ—pocrite but let him doe and say what he will for I set not a turde by him sith I am made immortall and become a God aswell as he is bespâ—rited and become a Diuel Marforius But now returne a little and tell me the cause of thy going to heauen Pasquine It was this that I haue tolde thée for that I sawe these Saintes to be so farre different from that they were sometime I would nedes goe to heaueÌ„ purposely to sée whether they haue there aboue the selfe same nature For me thought it a thing vnlikelye that this Saint Mary here belowe that hath the painting on hir face that hath crownes full of Iewels on hir heade that hath Chaynes aboute hir necke that hath Ringes on her fingers that hath so costly and so many sortes of garmentes vpon hir like one of those yong Girles of olde time me thought it not I say that this was al one with that most humble mother of the Lorde and so much the more I confirmed my selfe in this opinion bicause I sawe this Lady to be most couetous moste desirous to heape vppe treasure and most nigardly in spending it and if she let any thing of hir owne goe out of hir handes shée delt it most wickedly so that I sayd often to my self if this be thâ— Lords mother why hath she not compassioÌ„ vpon her sonne whom she séeth euery day in y e church where she is goe aboute asking almes Marforius What sayest thou hath Christ nede then Pasquine Yea in the poore that represeÌ„t his person for he sayeth In as much as you haue done it to one of the least of these my brethren ye haue done it vnto me Yet notwithstanding if this hir some aske hir but one Dotkin she doth not giue it him but standeth vpon hir grauitie and looketh bigge without once chaunging hir countenance nor shewing any maner signe of coÌ„passion But when the holy Father goeth to Loretto when those most reuerend Cardinals when the spirituall fathers goe vnto hir she geueth to these generations all that she hath to spend vpon whores dogges horses and Ganimedes whiche I shoulde haue sayde first the which things I am right well assured were al farre wide without all comparisoÌ„ from that true most pure virgin the Lords mother y â— which aboue all other things hated this filthy kinde of men beside that I was right well assured y â— those that be the very saintes in dede being with God who is most riche haue no nede of our goodes nor of our offeringes nor that they be so gréedy of glory nor sake not for such goodly Churches nor so riche Aultars and other ornaments whiche are in daunger to be one day robbed by the Turkes sithens suche as be the greate men in the worlde take not the same them selues These thinges are rather for the satisâ—ying of vaine witlâ—sse men than of Saints who neuer called them selues Kings nor Quéenes of heauen but the seruantes and handemaydes of God and woulde haue their dwellinges treasures in heauen where there is no daunger of Turkes for they goe not vp thither whiche treasures are not golde and siluer but iustice peace and ioy in the holy ghost And perceyuing newe by all these wayes aforesayd that these be no Saintes and seing that the worlde would enforce me to beleue that they be Saintes and that it were deadly sinne to speake euill of them I determined to goe to heauen to cleare me of this double Marforius I maruell that none hath sought this before thée Pasquine All haue lefte of for a certaine foolish and light beliefe and bycause they had holy thinges in small estimation being content with a false and wicked Religion the which hytherto I know not by what meanes hath holden the worlde sore bewitched And if there were founde any one that had begon to discerne the truth by and by haue they had their eyes closed that they should sée no further nor wade déeper for knowledge therin Marforius Thou hast tolde me y â— cause of this thy voiage tell me now how thou wentest vp and by what way and then what thou sawest there aboue For there must nedes be thinges farre diuers from ours from al that we can imagine or thinkeof Pasquine I will tell thée the whole so that thou hearken wel vnto me Marforius I hearken to thée say on Pasquine Séeking the way to go to heauen I coulde not finde it albeit I had red many things of Protheus Icarus and Menippus who men say wente vp thither but they tell not by what way Wherevpon I determined to aske one of these Angelles of it whiche all day goe vp and downe and they tolde me that there was none other way but by death that way I liked not bicause life is deare to euery man but by chaunce I found an other way Marforius And what way was that Pasquine That being in a traunce all these things should by reuelation be shewed vnto me Marforius Who taughte thée that way some Negromancer Pasquine Holde thy peace for this practise was deuised by holy fathers haste not thou read in the liues of holy fathers that Hilarius the Abbot standing on his féete in his chamber founde him selfe to be before the iudgement seate of God and there aunswered Pro contra Marforius I neuer read it Pasquine Hast thou not also read that booke intituled Memorare nouissima
forth vnto vs whiche they kepe in prison And sith they onely had the handling of the booke of peace and liberty the common people thought that they had taken all thinges out of that booke and they with cursed and abhominable lyes tooke out here a piece and there a piece and with straunge and fearefull miracles and with fayned dreames of purgatorie kept the poore people in so greate feare and wonder that they were constrayned to beleue their wicked deuises and lyes If thou do consider their lawes and the waightes and heauy burthens that they haue layd on mens shoulders thou wilt sweare that the Iewes law is an hundreth tymes more pleasaunt and easy than theirs Marforius What haue we therefore to doe herein Pasquine To haue recourse to the Gospell and not suffer our selues to be led by the nose for the Gospell hauing bene hytherto through these mennes councels dead and now rysing againe it behoueth them to run to the same their olde remedies And therefore as I sayde not long since do they deuise straunge fashions of Masking garmentes that they may the better vnder colour of them kepe the Doltes and Asses of the worlde still deceyued and subiect to their diuelish and stinking Religion Marforius Do they then séeke other wayes to bring such as beleue them into distruction Pasquine So I heard say there aboue nor it can not be otherwise beleued for that they sée their enimy Christ already come abrode with his simple and plaine Gospell whiche is the sworde that must cut all their throtes Marforius Ah tell me I pray thée my god Pasquine sithe we are entered into this talke howe Christ being now come abrode hath made these men so much to suspect thē selues Pasquine What knowest thou not then Marforius No. Pasquine Hast thou euer read the Gospell Marforius Neuer for I gaue my selfe wholy to the study of the Clementines the decrées of Popes Ilface the decretals and extrauagantes of Popes Pasquine Thou haste good cause therefore to be ignorant Now will I tell thée bycause thou mayst vnderstand the whole matter that good Iesus Christ teaching a certaine Pharisie the way to eternall life taught it him to doe it all in two pointes in the whiche two the whole way that is to say all the lawe and the Prophets are contayned Which two pointes who so euer doth obserue doth al that the lawe and the Prophets commaund and the two poyntes are these Loue the Lord thy God vvith all thy heart vvith all thy minde vvith all thy soule and vvith all thy strength and thy neighbour as thy selfe To loue God therefore and thy neighbour is the way that bringeth thée to heauen the which way Christ onely knewe that came downe from heauen and then againe went vp thyther And bycause euery man desireth to knowe it some haue sought it and hauing founde it out haue minded to follow this onely accomting all other for false and euill wayes and so haue they begon to forsake their whorish pilgrimags to scorne their scrupulous fastings to hate all their abhominable superstitions haue reformed all their whole life in the loue of God in loue toward their neighbor Marforius Then Christ hath not cōmaunded their order of Friers Pasquine I haue told thée already that Christ requireth sinceritie and puritie in those y ◠be his to leaue counterfeyting and outward shewes to the wolues to y ◠mōstruous beasts y ◠haue nede to disguise them selues if they wil not with their true countenaunce vncoūterfeyted make those afeard whom they séeke to deuour Marforius If the thing be so what thing is there in the worlde more to be desired than the Christian life the which forsaking al vanities that haue no respect vnto godlinesse studieth onely to haue the loue of God and of his neighbour If the true bishops and preachers did preache as they ought to doe this shoulde be the very health of cōmon wealthes and the conseruation of the felowshippe of men and the true life of our soules For what thing could be more dere to mankind than that man should be a God to man Pasquine Thou sayest well Marforius but thou séest that the simplicity of Christ is an offence to men in these dayes euen as it was to the Iewes while they were in the desert To whom God meant not to giue any other than these two commaūdements nor to burthen them with outward things as he had done with them in Egipt and before in the tyme of y ◠Patriarks who without any Ceremonies without any Churches of stone without any other maner of Superstition did highly please God But they began to rebell and would nedes be laden with Ceremonies as they had séene the Egiptians and forthwith they fashioned a Calfe and began to honor it and to make vnto it the it bankettes and their pastimes with their Ceremonies séeking to folowe the Egiptians which the Lord God when he sawe determyned to burthen them with so great a number and waight of Ceremonies that neyther they nor their fathers were neuer able to beare as Saint Peter sayth in the Actes of the Apostles Euen so iust is it come to passe at this present that forthwith when mans folly would not be content with Christ onely with those two plaine precepts the deuine iudgement let mans folly fall into so depe a sea of Ceremonies and Superstitions that if y ◠infinite goodnesse of Iesus Christ had not succoured vs we should all haue bene drowned therin Marforius O wretched O vnhappy men nay dull beastes that when they may be the seruauntes of Christ will rather become slaues to so euident follyes as these which are not of any maner profite nay rather of suche hurt as can not be imagined And for asmuch as I sée Christ doth not stirre vs to any other thing than this Pasquine Truely he doth not stirre vs vnto any other thing nor séeketh any other thing at our handes for when he shall come to gyue iudgemēt he wil not say to vs haue ye bene at Masse haue you obserued the thirde rule of Saint Fraunces are ye Uirgines nor suche other thinges but he will aske vs whether we haue obserued that which with so great diligence he lefte vs written in his Testament while he sayde Peace I leaue vvith you my peace I giue to you vnto the end that you loue one another And this shall be knowen whether it haue bene obserued of vs when he shal say vnto vs. I vvas hungry and ye gaue me no meate I vvas thirstie and ye gaue me no drinke and suche thinges like vnto these the which who so euer hath done shal go with him to heauen who hath not done them shall goe to hell although he had heard all the Masses of the worlde and though he were more than a virgin
the maner how to fall into a traunce And on the other side the confessours vnderstand all that they doe in sight thought worde and dede and then laying their handes on their heade and the displing rodde as the penitentiaries here do they assoyle them Marforius I vnderstande thée well They are put in the mids bycause they shall not runne away but this séemeth to me very straunge that in the Letany they are last and here they are aboue the Monkes vnder whom me thinketh they would do much better Pasquine The fault is in the bookes and not in the matter and he that made the Letany knew not al for then woulde he not haue set the women in the rerewarde for they ought to be kept and not to kepe other nor let it not séeme straunge to thée that they be aboue the Monkes for the Monkes can bring them vnder them when they list Marforius Are they all after one fashion haue they al one kinde of garment Pasquine So full of diuersitie is this diuision or Quéere as the rest are for asmuche as some are called Celestines some Clarines some Vastalines some Martirines some Brigidines Other are called Barbarines other Lucianes other Marianes other Marthanes other Benedictanes other Franciscanes other Dominicanes other Aâ—gustinianes other Carmilitanes and some Putanies also Marforius What did they Pasquine First of all they gloryed in their goodly title and next they reioyced that they had drawen into that opinion the chiefest part of ChristeÌ„dom And of this most especially they boasted that the opinion of Uirginitye or to say better the hatered of Matrimony had builded from the foundations vpwarde a great parte of that heauen Marforius They diseeyued them selues neuer a deale for if the Prelates and Priestes had not forborne wyues the Popishe Religion shoulde long sithens haue bene broughte to nothing for the multiplying of their children woulde haue deuided their reuenewes into many portions If thou wilt sée how much mariages are hurtfull to this Church take example of that which this other yeare Pope Paule did when he maried his sonnes sonne to the Emperours bastard daughter which he solde to the Pope If all Popes were of that minde and then begat children apase it woulde sone come to passe with them as it did with the Marquises of Lunigiana who in the end had neyther Marchandize money nor lande lefte them and therefore they passe not for any other thing than the commodities of the fleshe and hate Matrimony as a verye plague Pasquine Thou vnderstandest it Marforius and so doe I. Marforius But I maruell much how there can be so many Uirgines this being so rare a gift and most of all sith it is lost by the desire only For vvho soeuer loketh on a womaÌ„ to lust after hir hath commtited adultrye vvith hir already in his heart Pasquine The matter is that they take not virginity after this sorte but for a virgin they meane hir that is without a husband or him that is without a wife Marforius By this meaning Fornicatours and single women also may be Uirgines ah Pasquine Yea out of doubt so that they sweare neuer to mary remember that if they lyue not chaste they may take a whore secretly Marforius I doubt least by this opinioÌ„ many are become dishonest virgines But sawest thou there Saint Katherine Saint Barbara Saint Iulian. Pasquine I saw them and they were very full of cursed ambition Marforius What is that I heare thée say are those virgines ambitious that dispysed all thinges of the worlde Pasquine A man may reade in some storyes that they dispysed all thinges and I thinke it well done to beleue godly and learned hystories whereas a man may not sée any thing that is superstitious or wicked but there well I wote they haue chaunged both countenance and conditions Saint Katherine promised to him that hath in remembraunce hir passion to deliuer him from lightnings and tempestes And Saint Barbara to make him in the Warres kill his enimyes Marforius Diddest thou neuer heare that fine toy of this Saint Barbara how she gaue a gifte to certaine souldiers that had fasted on Saturday in the honour of hir that they might with most stout courage fall vnto the spoyle There are also many deuout souldiers that beare hir painted on their Harquebushes and vpon their Morions or vpon their Curasses that she may defende them from Gunshot Pasquine O Marforius howe many tymes haue I maruelled and yet could I neuer beleue it that the good Saints had any desire to do hurt to men and that they had this ambition to desire to get credite in the worlde and to do it by these meanes For I knewe it was the foolishest thing in the worlde to beleue that that which they eschewed while they were subiecte to the affections of the fleshe they seke so nowe that they are out of bondage of those affections If we will please Saintes that are the true Saintes in dede let vs do that which they while they liued commaunded vs that is to say let vs loue God and let vs vse charitye to our neighbour for doing otherwise we do highly offend them that is to say we make them ambitious desirous of reuenge cruell and proude the which thinges in their life time they so muche abhorred and hated As might right well be séene in their storyes if the Friers by their presumption and for that cursed rage of gaine had not corrupted and peruerted the same And therefore let vs séeke to Christ onelye for he onelye is the vvay he onely is the truth he onely is the life he only is the light he onely is the Master he onelye is the shepherde he onely is the hye Priest he onely is the Aduocate he onely is our full redemption and saluation Let vs therefore sollowe Christ onely forsaking those things that are the causes of so many inconueniences For we sée right well that bycause we follow not Christ only there are sprong vp so many sundry sectes so great diuersities of rites customes so many superstitions which haue led away the Christians so far from Christ y â— of his they haue now no more but onelye the bare name and this is the fruite that is gotten by deuotion to Saintes Marforius To returne therefore to the purpose this virginitye is it not so holy a thing as the worlde taketh it to be Pasquine Thou hast heard that it hath bene the foundation of a great part of this heauen Marforius I haue heard so and for ought that I haue heard I sée also that vices are clad with the clothes of those vertues that are their contraryes for I sée that fornication is called virginity But much I maruell that Saint Ierome did so much extoll this virginitye that he durst make this conclusion It is good for a man to be
it for feare some for vaineglory and other some for couetousnesse and deceytes of the diuel But yet can the Lord kepe safe those that he his Marforius I perceyue that thou sayest truth and I see that this secte of Vastalla and suche like become so muche the worse as that they doe the oftner vse that Sacrameat and other wicked Sacryfices But is there any thing else to be sayde of hir Pasquine The best is yet behinde Marforius What is that Pasquine When she will knowe whether any be come to the purposed pointe of this puritie this way she tryeth it she causeth him to weare aboutâ— his nocke or vpon his heade or in some other notable place of his body some thing of much shame as a Frying panne or a Kettle or else the hornes of an Oâ—e or of a Ram or else his garments with the wrong side outwarde or otherwise euill fauouredly put on sometyme wrapped in a Nette or halfe naked and somewhile altogether naked be it maÌ„ or woman And so doth she make them go through the City for sayth she our firste fathers were in the beginning naked and afterwarde did couer their dishonest partes with leaues and then went halfe clothed and last of al as euill did encrease together with their shame they did wholly couer theÌ„ selues with beastes skinnes Who so euer doth therefore desire to returne to that former sincerity muste come backewarde by the selfe same degrées and from clothing him selfe must returne to nakednesse and if of these things they be not ashamed then is it a manifest token â–ª that they be already in Paradice Marforius Oh what a shamefull thing is this Pasquine Hearke there is worse yet Then putte they Adam and Eâ—e in the night season alone in a bedde who if they eate not of the Fruites if they speake not together thereof nor haue thereof no maner of thinking for as muche as of euerye thing they are afterwarde strayghtly examined and muste of force confesse it then are they alredy become Aungels made Gods But if they eate of the fruites for that for the moste part she that went to bed a â—irgin arose from thence spedde with hir errande then are they driuen out of Paradice and condempned to perpâ—tuall torments Marforius I knowe not who deserueth herein moste blame whether they that doe this or the Princes or Magistrates that winke at it Pasquine The Magistrates of Christendom in these dayes neyther condempne nor persecute any but such as séeke the hâ—nour of Christ that giue all prayse to Christ that maintaine the Gospell of Christ. Marforius Alas alas thou sayest euen the truth oh how great accompt shall they make to Christ God lighten them if it be his pleasure But tel me somewhat of that Lady saint Camilla Wherefore is she called both a Lady and a Saint Pasquine Lady for hir pride and Saint for hir Ipocrisie for she was not contented to be of the house of the Pallauicini the which thou knowest is famous noble in Italy but would by hir cursed pryde make hir self a moÌ„grel of the bloud Royal of Fraunce and sayth that she is the daughter of king Levves the thirde Marforius And how Pasquine She said that the King making warre in Italy had then to doe with hir mother and so was she begotten Marforius That was a terrible warre in dede but yet was there no bloude shedde And doth she then reioyce in this goodly tytle to be a bastarde the daughter of a whore both borne and begotten in adultery Pasquine Yea out of doubt but not without cause for thou mayst sée that that good fellowe of Millaine in his Paradoxes sheweth that it is better to be a bastarde than lawfully begotten Marforius Oh howe muche it displeaseth me to sée how goodly wittes are occupyed about vaine vnprofitable vile and shameful exercises which else might better be imployed in better studyes But this Camilla was a bastarde before that the Authour of those Paradoxes was borne But what lyfe leadeth shée Pasquine Mary shée gaddeth now here nowe there vnder colour of Religion Marforius Of what Religion Pasquine Of a Religion of none other bodyes making but of hir owne She hath with hir thrée women of the selfe same Ipocrisie and superstition Shée abideth not in any Monasterye as Nonnes doe but dwelleth in a priuate house and chaungeth it often such is hir womanishe ficklenesse shée haunteth places pleasant and solitary albeit she haue no greater pleasure in any one thing than in the coÌ„uersation of men as may well be seene for his house is continually haunted with women and gentlemen and Lordes as if it were the house of a conning Doctor or rather of the Oracle of the City And the world is such as more easely doth suffer it self to be drawen away with the gay glistering of superstitioÌ„ and fayned holinesse than with the true and humble religion Sometyme shée shutteth vp hir selfe in a Chamber so straight and so darke which shée often vsed at Pauia that it rather séemeth a graue than a Chamber and this she sayth she is the more familiarly to enioy the coÌ„pany of Angels On the Fryday she wil not speake to any man nor let hir selfe be séene for she sayth that on that day she remayneth altogether occupied in the contemplation of the Crosse of Christ and of his nayles through the meditation whereof shée sayth shée hath receyued the markes of the fiue wouÌ„ds of Christ. Marforius Why then she doth counterfaite Saint Katherine of Siena and Saint Fraunces Pasquine Nay rather is shée Saint Fraunces wife for shée loueth his Friers as hir owne children and preferreth his secte before all other and goeth also cladde in his wéede And moreouer she hath hir hands and hir féete wrapped in cloutes that the eyes of sinners shoulde not sée those holy woundes which are onely méete to be seéne of Aungels Marforius Are they woundes in good sadnesse Pasquine I can not tell but I wil shewe thée what merily and paraduenture truly an Ambassadour of the French Kings sayde talking one day of this woman and of hir woundes There was one that sayde he maruelled that shee kept them couered Maruell not at all quoth he for things that are filthy ought to be kept conered paraduenture they are the plaine markes of the French Pockes whiche disease is wonte to breake out in these places albeit sometime in the foreheade but not altogether nor after one sorte to all men Marforius What aunswered that other good fellow Pasquine He was blank he knew not what to say Marforius No more could I tell what to say if I sayde not that those woundes are made by arte of man or the crafte of the Diuel as happened in Berna a towne of the Svvychers where certaine Dominicane Friers did y e like to a poore simple soule Pasquine Thou sayest truth for I hearde speak of
therfore al in a great sturre a Romane Abbot stode vp and sayd heare ye fathers know ye not that it is not lawfull to bring the wiues of the olde Testament into the newe but it behoueth vs that in steade of wyues we haue benefices and fat liuings inough Therefore will I that ye vnderstand that place thus Let the Byshop be the husbande of one vvife that is to say let him haue at the least one benefice And so shall we finde a place for our Byshop And as for the rest that troubleth you so muche care ye not at all for he néede not care whether he hath one wife of his owne that may haue wiues inoughe of other mens Marforius O there was a good Doctour Pasquine Euen such as be all But among the rest I sawe one that is accoumpted a piller of the Church who ranne so at randon through out the whole Gospell and with such boldnesse that he set all at hauocke Afterward he gaue him selfe to write against Matrimony then after that he opened his clothes before him and began to knock him selfe on the breast and that done he stoode vp and helde the forme or proportion of a Church in his hande Marforius Why did he beate him selfe Pasquine Bycause he did that which God commaunded not as he had done against that which God had cōmaūded that is to say speaking against Matrimonie Marforius Knowest y ◠not the names of any of them Pasquine Yes and if I recken them to thée thou wouldest wonder at it but I will name one or two of them to thée bycause I will not léese so much time for I haue many other things to tel thée There was Thomas of Aquine who sought if it were possible to defend his disputation De Dulia Hyperdulia Marforius I remember that disputation It is vengeaunce subtile Pasquine Who knoweth not that he had nede worke subtillye that will make all men beleue that vnder the forme of the Diuell a man may worship Christ And that is when as vnder the figure or Image of the diuel which thou séest before thée thou doest for all that Imagine with thy selfe that there is Christ and yet meanest thou not to worshippe that figure or stocke which is in thy sight but Christ whom thou hast vnder that figure conceyued in thy minde Marforius How can that be done Pasquine Howe coulde it be done in the olde time that when they offered an Oxe conceyued God in their imgination and vnder the Image of that Oxe worshipped him Thinkest thou that men haue at any tyme bene so foolishe that they thought that an Oxe was God and notwithstanding that there was no maner of resemblaunce in the worlde betwene an Oxe and God they conceyued for al that God in their imagination through the Image of that Calfe and being so conceyued did worship him And this is y ◠subtile Hyperdulia of Thomas Aquine that thou ioyne God with a stocke and that thou worship the stock as God euen as the Iewes worshipped the Oxe for God Marforius This is in dede a very subtile but no Christian opinion Pasquine And yet is it defended in these dayes as an article of our faith Marforius I knowe that they will maintaine all such things as ought to be condempned cōdemyne all such as ought to be maintayned Pasquine This therfore was it which Saint Thomas of Aquine so botched vp for if the truth of his matter mighte be knowen abrode their carued stockes their pictures their Images their paintinges and their Idolls all would be in great daunger the gaine that is gotten thereby would sone he at an ende Marforius Thou sayest the very truth for euen for the religious care of their gaine not for any other cause doe the Priestes séeke to maintaine all that which God so much forbiddeth Pasquine Harde beside Thomas Aquine I saw his master sit to whome all the rest of his order vsed much reuerence Marforius Howe was he called Pasquine Me thought they called him Albertus Magus Marforius I know not who that should be Pasquine It is that holy Doctor whiche so profoundlye disputch of the secrets of women Marforius Thou vnderstodest them not wel he is called Albertus Magnus and not Magus who wrote also of the wonders of the worlde Pasquine It may be that I mistoke it albeit he may be called after which sorte you will for he was without cause called Magnus being a maruellous great Doctor and a great Magician Marforius And what did his Disciples there with him Pasquin They were entreating of him that he would goe Ambassador to the City of Coleyn Marforius For what purpose Pasquine Bycause it was sayde that the Byshop there fauoured to much the Gospell and did as became a true shepherde and went about with the helpe of Bucer Melanchton to reforme his Church according to the rule of the Gospell Marforius But what would they haue had Maister Albert doe there Pasquine That he should séeke if it were possible to let y ◠going forward of so holy a worke But he might haue gone thither and haue lost all his labour for albeit the City stande somewhat stiffe the shéepe for all that will follow their good shepherde Marforius Of such good Bishops should they much nede who hitherto haue bene deceyued by these false Gods But sawest thou any of those newe Doctours Pasquine Whom meanest thou to be the new Doctours Marforius Fysher B. of Rochester Ecchius Pighius Albert of Vdine Byshop of Chioggia Pasquine Rochester is not only a Doctour but also a Martir therfore shall we finde him in the Quéere of the Martirs But Iohn Ecchius and Pighius I saw not and by that I coulde learne they were yet kept in their Purgatory which they so stoutly defended Marforius Why are those defendours of Purgatorye serued with the same sause for their labour Pasquine I pray God they be not cast into the bottomelesse pitte of euerlasting fire for none can defende other Purgatory than Christes bloude without cruell iniurie and blasphemie to Christ for so it happeneth to such as serue cruel Tyrannes turnes that they them selues first féele the smart of their wicked deseruings Perillus Bull may teach them Marforius But doest thou thinke that they shall at any tyme come vp hither and be placed among the Gods Pasquine Of Pighius I dare not say bycause he is much estéemed among those Gods for his eloquence and singuler learning But sure I thinke that Ecchius shall neuer be able to climbe to heauen Marforius And why not Pasquine Bycause he had a fowle great paunch that hong a foote a halfe ouer his Codpiece and that will be a great let to him And thou knowest Marforius that naturall writers affirme that heauy things of their owne nature go down to the Centre which thing he right wel vnderstoode that made his
be whole Another exposition haue I also founde in Calapine who sayth that Cardinal is euen the selfe same that Carneuale for neither the one nor the other doth attende to any other thing than to eate drinke slepe commit whordome fall to banketting and last of al to do al those goodly valiant actes that to declare them all would wery Demosthenes Cicero Virgill Homer Horace and Pindarus All tongues are dombe to speake of them euen the thousandeth parte Better it is to be still than say little of them And although a man wrote of thâ—â—r vile naughtynesse more thaÌ„ Saint Augustine wrote yet should he haue sayde but little for the stinke of them reacheth euen to the Scytheans and to the Hiperboryans and to the furihest parts of the newe worlde Marforius They are therefore Apostates and not Apostles But tell me somewhat of Cardinall Coutarine and Cardinall Fregoso called Salernitano Pasquine I sawe them not for my good Aungell tolde me that they were not receyued into this heauen for they had fauoured the doctrine of the Gospell more than was the duety of Cardinals and that if the waight of their Cardinalship haue not pulled them downe he thought that they were ascended to the true heauen Marforius God is strong inough he might easely haue drawen theÌ„ vp thither if it were his will Pasquine I knowe that well for all things are possible with God Marforius I pray thee heartily talke no more to me of these men but follow on the rest Pasquine I will but I doubt that we shall go from euill to worsse for after these come the Euangelistes whom when I saw me thought I felt my soule to be torne as it were out of my body for very sorow Marforius Alas what is that I heare thée say Pasquine It is as I tell thée for in place of those foure Euangelistes and of their Gospels albeit the Gospel be but one onely be it eyther written by the Apostles or the Euangelistes I saw that there were foure couÌ„cels receyued that is to say that of Nice that of Constantinople that of Ephesus that of Calcedon And then foure Doctours of the Churche that is to weâ—e Ambrose Augustine Ierome and Gregorie And after these other innumerable whome we had sene in the Quéere of the Doctours And moreouer were added the bookes of the Decrées Decretalles Sectes and Clementines neyther did all this suffise but it was also graunted to euery one so that he had eyther a Cowle or a shaueÌ„ Crowne to write what him lusted and the same to set forth in steade of Euangelical and Apostolicall Doctrine In so muche that the Pope hath drawen all things to him selfe and hath placed him selfe in the steade of Christes Gospel and of God him selfe nay rather aboue God and aboue al lawes of God or men affirming that all consisteth in his owne breast Beholde therfore what maner of Euangelistes and what Gospels they be And yet I tell thée nothing of the Belles of the carued of the painted and of the molten Images of the Church of the Crosses of lightes of waxe of vesselles of garments and other ornaments all whiche things they will nedes haue to be taken for true Euangelists Wherefore I pray thée cause me not to speake any more of this so abhominable and detestable a Quéere Marforius Procéede therefore to the rest Pasquine A little of from hence was the order or Quéere of Priestes and Leuites Marforius Newe or olde Pasquine New made of the olde Marforius Howe Pasquine Remembrest thou not that we said before that I sawe in y â— Quéere of the Doctours they caryed the old Testament into the newe Marforius I remeÌ„ber me well of that but I thought that our Priesthoode had come from Christ and not from the olde Testament Pasquine What did make thée thinke so Marforius Many things first they were Priestes by nature by succession for the Trybe of Leui had this priuiledge of God wherfore Leuiticus was called y â— priesthoode Our Priesthoode consisteth not in any familie or kinred but they are Leuites and Priestes that are by the Byshop thervnto chosen and greased Beside that they sacrificed brute beastes but our Priestes do offer and sacrifice Christ to God Pasquine Thou folowest the errour of the Papistes Marforius that is to say of the Romishe Church but a remedy must be founde for this errour Marforius What remedy is that Pasquine The Philosophers sayd that Philosophie was the medicine of the minde for it tooke away errours and purged the mind But we that haue receyued y â— truth from the true God say not that Philosophie that is to saye the desire of worldely wisedome but the wisedome it selfe giuen vnto vs in the wrytings of the Apostles is the medicine of the mind and a most sure remedy against al errors which are y â— diseases of y â— mind Mar. Why theÌ„ is y â— an error of our priestes Pas. It is a fowle error a madnesse of mind very daungerous Marforius I muche desire to be healed of this infirmitie and to haue agayne y â— health of minde which is the wisedome of Christ. Pasquine Thou shalt sone be hole for thou knowest thy disease and desirest the medicine I wil therfore begin to cure thée All that thou hast spoken of Priesthode shall be ouerthrowen if thou wilt thinke that neyther the Apostles nor the Euangelists haue written so much as one tittle of such kinde of Priesthode and Sacrifice But where they haue spoken of Priesthode and of Priests they haue not meante it of those that are annointed by Byshops but of that Priesthode that maketh all Christians to be Priests consecrating them with the vnction of the holy Ghost and not wyth oyle coniured and consecrated by Byshops Peter the Apostle sayth that all Christian man are a spirituall housholde and a holy and royall Priesthode to offer spirituall offrings acceptable to God through Iesus Christ. And so saint Paule prayeth the Romanes and other the true worshippers of Christ that they offer their bodies in a liuing sacrifice holy acceptable to God which is your reasonable seruing of him Wherfore thou séest that we are al the temple of God Priestes Offrings and Sacrifices most acceptable vnto God for our Lord Iesus Christ the high Priest and euerlasting Byshops sake I would therefore knowe of thée nowe if thou beleue that Iesus Christ the high Priest and Lambe haue taken away the sinnes of the worlde as sayth saint Iohn and all the whole scripture Marforius Yea I beleue it Pasquine I would know of thée for what occasion thou thinkest that the Priestes of the olde testament so often times renued those sacrifices and heaped so many offrings one after another Marforius Bicause God had commaunded it Pasquine That is true but yet for an other cause sayth Paul that is bycause
dispensed to the pore impotent for the mariage of honest maydens to the godly ministers of y â— true Churches and not to lying Fryers and idle priests enimies to the Gospel as thou mayest sée In Codice Iurisconsultorum And saint Paule sayeth He that laboreth not let him not eate The same do I say also of the treasures of the Church as vessels vestements Images of Golde and Syluer Iewels baÌ„ners crosses and such lyke which eyther idle priests and Fryers enimies of the pure gospell of Christ do enioy and eyther do vnprofitably reserue for ambition consume in letcherie or else for superstition doe worship Marforius I surely thinke that these possessions were left to the Churche to the ende they should be disposed in such sorte as thou haste sayde and to say y â— truth what doth Gold in the Churches as that Poet sayde But was there any other thing in doing Pasquine It was decréed to encrease the number of the Cardinals to cause that of al the chief houses of Italie and else where abroade there shoulde alwayes one or other of them be a Cardinall by this mecanes to kéepe them alwayes in the deuotion of the Church of Rome the which they nowe through the reading of holye Scriptures beginne to knowe and forsake that they may enioye the libertie of the Gospel But aboue all other things that their shoulde be alwayes vj. or .iiij. at the least of the Venetians Cardinals and this they ment bycause they knowe what a number of those Senatours are wyttie men and of profound iudgement doubting least they should slip their heads out of the coller and most of all seing that sacred Senate when it hath bene often tymes by the Popes Legates pricked forward to the destruction slaughter of their vessels bicause they withdraw themselues from the Popes tyrannie hath shewed euidently that they take more care of their true and faithfull subiects than to haue giuen eare to the presumption of him that taketh vpon him to commaund them Marforius Thou hast told thy tale but I haue heard say that they bury men quicke Pasquine How doe they burie them quick Marforius Thrusting them into prisons as into graues Pasquine The Legate condemâ—neth them and not they Marforius Truely I muche maruell sith there hath bene at no tyme any power so great that hath bene able by force to sâ—bdue them they wil for al that so wilfully submit themselues to the seruice of the Pope and suffer for his sake that within their Territorie Iustice shoulde be defaced or blemished which being driuen from all men is come to séeke succours at them Pasquine I would vnderstande thée better and then I will aunswere thée Marforius They are great Lordes and neuer knewe what bondagâ— meant and yet they suffer that a vyle scuruy priest shall in their owne dominion giue sentence against their subiectes and they muste execute other mens sentences Thinkest thou that this is not great bondage I speake not of the Tenthes of their Dominion the which they giue the Pope and many things else And furthermore there is not a man condempned in that iuste Citie that is not iudged by fortie Iudges neither is there any one so euill or heynous an offendor but maye alleage for himselfe the best he can and yet they suffer that a legate onely shall condempne whome he lyste and the person accused shall not come to his purgacion for this false Iudge refuseth the Testimonies of theÌ„ that speake in the defence of him that is accused and alloweth such as for hatred or any other dampnable occasion speake euill against him And they perceiue not y â— if I beare displeasure to one I may go and accuse him to the Legate of heresie and cause him to be banyshed or committed to some place to abyde during his lyfe and forfeyte his goodes and yet shall not he haue once so much fauour as to say for himselfe what he can peraduenture he is an honest man faithfull to his estate Doest thou not thinke that it were a thing very requisite for them to prouide better for this case Pasquin Thou knowest Marorius y â— there haue euer bene and shall euer be membres of Antichrist And they be the cause of these and such like disorders But be thou fast and sure of it they can not long continue thus for there are among theÌ„ that are very wyse meÌ„ and many more than I speak of who haue depely considered the great tumults and the great seditions and flaughters y â— in times past haue bene in Germanie for persecuting such as were faithfull subiects men that in all points were honest and therefore are very lothe that the like should come to passe in their countries for they sée aforehand the scourge that God hath prepared for the Emperor and his brother for these causes Marforius God knoweth that I wishe their well doing as much as any of themselues do therfore wishe they did as thou sayest and I woulde haue them thus to consider that when any of them is made a Cardinall he should be forthwith banished for these be they that cause all their secrets to be knowen to y â— Pope and are the very occasion that they are kept in such vile bondage Pasquine Doubt not thereof they will haue greater regard to the publique weale than to their priuate commoditie and when néede shall be will leaue all these considerations and open the waye to all Italie And the saints of whome we speake are much in doubt hereof and do therefore séeke by making many of them Cardinalles to kepe them styll in bondage for if they had not had so great respecte to y â— Tyranne the Pope they shoulde long sithens haue bene Lords of all Italie The which thing might easily come to passe if they would embrace the Gospell of Iesus Christ the giuer of all power dominion all other good things as I hope they will Marforius folowe on I pray thée the other determinacioÌ„s of this counsell Pasquine CoÌ„cerning Spaine it was decreed that the Inquisitors shoulde not henceforth be seuere with the Marranes who denye the Diuinitie of Christ but should be most cruell againste the Lutheranâ—s who deny the Diuinitie of the Pope and most constantly confesse the Diuinitie of Christ. Marforius That is euen as much as to desire that Barrabas be deliuered and Innocent Christ crucified but what was else decréed there Pasquin One thing horrible fearefull and to make all Christendome quake Marforius Alas what may that be Pasquine First they decréed to make league with the Turke to make therby all their enemies affearde and that done to sende all their Angels through all the parts and Cities of Christendome and most chiefly such Angels as sowe wilfull warres dissentions deceits mischieues offences and calling therefore one of them that had the
feare y â— wilt neuer come to an ende Pasquine Then began I to consider the waye the whiche for ought y â— I could perceiue was sometime much more trodden than it is at this present for a man might sée euen in some parte of it the grasse growen vp I thought at y â— first beginning that this had bene caused by y â— spring-time which then was at hand then remembring that there was neuer no spring I asked the Aungell the â—ause therof who tolde me that euen as a man might haue séene long agone the people come from al partes of the worlde into this Citie for the Iubilie with the self same throng and greater also went they to Hel sent thither by Popes and among other these Popes them selues with their Iubilies but sythens that prophecie was fulfilled whiche saith That oute of the North shall come a plague vpon all the dvvellers of the lande the grasse hath begon to growe vp in this broad hie way Marforius I am wonderous glad that y â— art come to talke of this saying for I desire múche to vnderstand it of thée These Priestes of ours vnderstande that it thus signifieth That those nations of the North parts are cause of all euill heresie Pasquine Those Préestes of yours vnderstand the scripture quite awrye and for the authority they haue they cause it to be declared after their owne fashion But I saye to thee that this worde Al euil is in the scripture as muche to saye as That which is contrarie to the Gospell or to tell thée it more plainely it signifieth Antichriste for euen as by the Gospell Christ which is al goodnes is giuen vnto vs euen so againe it must néedes be that all euill is his directe contrary In the same signification saint Paule said that couetousnesse is the roote of al euill for thou séest that Antichrist which is all euill hath his rootes so fastened in Couetousnesse and al his membres also that for this cause many of them y â— know y â— truth of y â— gospel either thei hide it or else w t stand it bicause they wil not loose their liuings For the selfe same cause also doth Antichrist with al his whole power séeke to destroy it This prophecy therfore was thus much to say as That froÌ„ y â— North should bloâ— a wynde with so great force y â— it shuld take away froÌ„ the Wolfe his shepe skin make him to be knowen as a Wolfe or to tell thée the same more plainely that from those parts the Pope should be discouered for to be Antichrist Marforius I perceyue that God hath made thée to speake for my soule healthe I sée that thou sayest the truth Pasquine Sythens therefore that he who tooke him selfe to be y â— shepeherde is discouered to be the Wolfe the shéepe being affearde of his cruell looke knowing him to be their enemie haue fled away from him and haue folowed the good and true shepeherd Iesus Christ who is the waye that leadeth to the swéete pastures And this waye therefore that leadeth to perdition begynneth to shoute out grasse for it is not any more trodden but by the members of Antichrist who albeit thei be many as I tolde thee a lyttle before yet are they fewe in respect of those that sometime did folow him Marforius I rest fully satisfied in this point Nowe woulde I know how the walles were made that compasse in that place Pasquine There are no maner of walles at all Marforius What néede is there then to haue a gate can not euery one come in and oute that wyll Pasquine Thou knowest that Venice hath no walles yet cannot euery one come in and go out that will albeit the strength of this place is coÌ„trary to others for other are made that none should come in and this is made that none should go out for as thou hast herd the entrie is frée to euery man Marforius Is y â— place compassed about with waters as Venice is Pasquin It is compassed about with waters but not as Venice is for Venice is compassed with waters of the Sea and this place is compassed with waters of fyre Marforius How can this hang togither the water the fyre are directe contraries howe is it possible that they shoulde agrée togyther Pasquine How is it possible that soules whiche can not feele nor be felte should burne in the fyre and that the bodies should abide in the fyre and not be burned and yet this happeneth in Hell Euen as we sée that Christe witnesseth in the parable of the riche man and Lazarus the begger saying That the riche man was in Hel fyre yet his body was not in Hell for mens bodies must remaine in the earth vntil the daye of Iudgement after the which the bodies shal go togither with y â— soules into euerlasting fyre As may be séene in all the whole scripture and in that place where Christ saith That thou cut away thy hande that offendeth thée for better shall it be for thée that thou lacke a membre than that all the whole body shoulde be cast into Hell fyre The thinges of Hell are of an other manner of sorte than those of this worlde he that coulde tell howe to make these things of this nature knew also how to make those of an other nature so that thou must not maruell if I tolde thée that this place is compassed with waters of fyre Marforius Are these waters so broad as those of Venice Pasquine These be not all of theÌ„ togyther but are diuided into fiue great dyches The first whereof is called Lethe which is as much to saie as The forgetting of goodnesse the seconde Phlegeton that to saye desire of euill the thirde Acheron which is to say the vtter forsaking of al gladnesse the fourth Cocytus that is to saye wéeping the fifth is Palus stigia which is to wéete Euerlasting hate and miserie Marforius How do they passe in Charons boate Pasquine As I haue told thée of the gate euen so I tel the of these waters for to go thither thei passe without any businesse but to returne againe it is not possible to passe them Euen as thou séest that it fareth by the Ryuer Danubius and of many other waters that downe the streame they sayle wonderous easily but vp against the streame it is impossible In fine I tell thée that to go thyther there is no maner of let by the way no whether they haue their peny to paye Charon for his ferye nor whether thei haue ben buried or no nor of none other thing Marforius What a foolish deuise was that of them that thoughte that Charon must be paide and therefore put a peny in the deade mannes Mouth And of these other that thought that the soule could not passe ouer on the other side in
Counsel began not within seauen Monethes stoutly withstanding their decrée did euidently shewe what might be looked for at his handes and what his meaning was 60 Whether when the same Cardinall Contarine saide in a certayne writing of his to the Princes of the Empire that he hoped that it woulde come to passe that the Protestaunts woulde retorne to the lap of the church of Rome and they likewise in a wryting of theirs made answere againe in a wryting of theirs that of al men they woulde neuer doe so whether afterwarde I saye néeded anye talke betwéene them for the matter 61 Whether any ought in these dayes to be offended bicause the doctrine of the Gospel séemeth to bring dissentions and alterations sith that Christe saith that the same is a singuler token and most plaine demonstration of his worde which is to sende the sword and not peace and to set the sonne agaynst the father and the daughter against the mother 62 Whether that argument be of force which many in these dayes do holde â–ª that it is not to be beleued that God woulde haue our forefathers to erre vntyll this tyme and to be without the true doctrine for as much as by the same reason it may be asked why the same God hath suffred Africa and all Asia to fall into so horrible darknesse â–ª after they lost the lighte of the Gospell and newe doctrine brought in For it muste be confessed that all that remayned after the preaching of the Gospell was onely in Europa the thirde and least parte of the worlde 63 Whether such as are in these dayes put to death in many places be verye heritiques in dede and albeit they be suche whether they ought to be putte to death or no for that Christ doth expresly commaund that we suffer the cockle to grow with y e corne not to roote the same vp 64 Whether the decrées of the Fathers of the Counselles ought to be referred and examined by the prescript rule of the gospel syth Paule so plainly said That other foundation than that was already ought not to be layed yet shoulde it come to passe that many ther vpon would buylde some golde some stouble some woode 65 Whether those solepmne and ordinarie disputacions of the Sorbonists doe any thing profite to the vnderstanding of the holy scripture syth they are altogether idle questions of vayne things crooked more than supercelestiall crabbed and Seraphicall the which neither they that speake nor those that heare them do at any tyme vnderstande and albeit they do vnderstande them yet are they neuer a deale the better by them or the better learned 66 Whether if the Pope woulde at any tyme suffer in a generall counsell if any shall hereafter be any one article to be pulled away from him that then it might not be truely saide affirmed that he is not the Churche forasmuche as hitherto he standeth stiffe in defence that the Church can not erre 67 Whether the Church that is to saye a congregacion of people may erre forasmuche as it is propre to mans nature to erre fal Then if it can not erre for that they allege whereâ—two or thrée are gathered togyther in my name c. Whether then the Consistories of Popes Cardinalles and Byshops may erre syth these many yeares they haue called theyr counselles not to sette forthe Christes glory but more more to confirme and stablish their ryches and dignitie syth y â— the scripture telleth that in the latter times should spring horrible errors 68 Whether in matters perteyning to faith and our Saluation any other thing ought to be commaÌ„ded beside the gospell syth Christ coÌ„maunded that his onely sonne should be heade and none other And sithe also that Christe commaundeth vs to beware of men and of their doctrine 69 Whether syth we plainely sée into howe fowle stincking abhominable errours we are fallen synce we lefte the prescript rule of the Gospell and opened the way to al mans traditions we ought not to haue great cause seing so many mischieues and incoÌ„ueniences before our eies to become wyse to giue place casting aside al hautinesse of minde giue ouer our selues wholly to him whiche onely cannot erre who commaunded that in his commaundements we neyther tourne asyde to the right or left hande 70 Whether it ought to be confessed that it is a great miraculous misterie that religion which now is in disputacion hath of so small fâ—eble beginnings as by one man only who was notoriously condempned in the beginning and counted as an abiected to y e whole world or rather as a praye layed forth to al meÌ„ hath so sprede it self and growne to such a greatnesse that such as haue bene against it withstoode it may not iustely be affearde if they haue any witte at all 71 Whether such as will séeme to fauour the gospell thereby to be thought that they know much and do for all that flatter such as styre vp persecutions may be compared to Herode who made more conscience to breake his vnlawfull promise to a Harlotte than to saue the lyfe of so holy a man 72 Whether that saying of the Gospell who loueth his soule in this worlde shall loose it c. may not aptly agrée with the fyne worldly wise heads of oure tyme who for the doctrine of the Gospell will not for any little suspicion therof receiue losse or displeasure but liue pleasauntly and quietly kepe their riches and promotions vntouched 73 Whether suche as in these dayes do confesse y â— there are errours and in the meane tyme do not only contempne but also condempne such as do shewe them those errours be lyke vnto the Pharisies that said to him that was borne blinde and had receyued his â—ight of Christ we know that God spake to Moyses but who this is meaning Christe we know not nor whence he commeth 74 Whether suche as for certeine opinions in religion haue styrred vp horrible persecutions are become so madde therein that more crueltie cannot be deuised may not very wel if they wil acknowledge their offence confesse that they are the begynners authors of so outragious mercilesse butcherie and slaughter 75 Whether that saying of the Gospell least haply the Romaines come take away oure place Iohn xj do hytte iuste such Kings and Princes as will be borne in hande that if they receyue the gospell it will come to passe that their people will rebel and not be obedient 76 Whether that whiche Paule speaking of the doctrines of Diuelies whiche he in spirite foresawe shoulde arise do serue right for the Papists who for their tradicions slea and in sundry sortes do torment men which is the very nature of Sathan â–ª who is delyted with murther and blonde and whether the Protestants who persecute not their enimies are not much to be preferred before the Papists especially syth they haue both strongth and rychesse