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A09952 The iudgement of a most reuerend and learned man from beyond the seas concerning a threefold order of bishops, with a declaration of certaine other waightie points, concerning the discipline and gouernement of the Church. Bèze, Théodore de, 1519-1605.; Fielde, John, d. 1588. 1585 (1585) STC 2021; ESTC S120819 15,412 46

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comprehend the decidyng of them in vnfallible and plaine heads as by certayne rules like as it was done profitably in those right approoued Councels both Oecumenie perticulars against the blasphemy of the heretikes and the malipertnesse of the disordered And where as there come many questions in the seignories especially when there is dealing about mariages though there cannot be certaine rules set downe touching them out of the worde of God yet so neere as may be rules drawn out of the comparing of the scriptures are to be set downe after which they may be decided yet is neither any thing takē from the word of God by the puttyng to of this so it be rightly done But this is rather an interpretation of the worde of God a declaring how one foloweth vpon another Agayne where the substance both of doctrine and ecclesiasticall discipline abideth whole and vnchangeable yet must the outward circumstances of the order needs be changed for the same reason of the person places abideth not alwayes For we see the Apostles loue feastes taken away the decrees touching bloud and that which was strangled The gouernors of the church are to prouide also that all may haue intelligence at what tyme place it is expedient for any thing to be done in the Church yet so as the doctrine it selfe vnder which we also comprehend the ordaining of the sacramēts abide whole as God hath set it downe Further that in setting down the lawes of this order there be set down nothing foolish or vnprofitable much lesse any of the old customes retained which either is already stained with superstition or which may easily make a way to superstition Lastly that in all these there be a great regard of simplicitie and that the church be not loaded with a multitude of rules And for the auoyding of the diuersitie of rites it is necessary that these Canons as in olde tyme they called them be set downe in their generall counsels that any thing in the same land may be chaunged according to the tyme. But whatsoeuer shall be set downe in those counsels is to be established by the authoritie of the kings Christian maiestie as next after God the keper and defender of the churches The fourth question Whether the papistes are to be excommunicate as Apostates or vtter fallers away or to be punished with some smaller punishment To the fourth question We see not what sword of excommunication may be drawen out against those men who though they were set into the church by no vaine baptisme yet neuer entred into the fellowship of the pure church Yea the doores are alwayes to stand opē that they may come to heare the word of God and they are carefully to be allured thether if at any tyme as the Apostle saith they may repent and get out of the snare of the deuill of whom they are holden captiue But if any shal be thought to sinne in an open contempt our iudgement is that it ought wholy to bee put ouer to the christiā magistrate We thinke that it beseemeth a Christian magistrate to deale much by lenitie in the matter of religiō towards his subiects not being troublesome sectaries such as of knowledge blaspheme The fift question For what cause may any be excommunicated As put case one kill a man saying he did it by chaunce or of some necessitie for his owne safetie and is redy to be iudged about that matter not yet accused either of the king or of the neighbours of him that is killed Whether may the Church make inquirie of the fact whether it wer done of trecherie or by chance or of necessity compell the manslear to professe repentance openly in the church or to excommunicate him if he refuse To the fift question No man earnestly repenting is to be excommunicate but after repentaunce rather ought to bee receiued And the cause of excommunication ought to be most waighty a publike offence seing that onely the extremitie of the diseases must haue extreme remedies Yet may such men after the thing be knowen be suspended from receiuyng the Lordes supper they were woont to cal such mē restrained for whom this is thought to be a necessary remedy that for the great nes of their offence they may be an example to others or that their repentāce doth stand in need of triall As for the present question If the magistrate put in minde of his duety doe winke at such faults and yet it be probable that none is rashly accused Wee thinke that the Eldership may call him forth and there as the matter shal require to exhort him to the acknowledging of the offence which if ye shall deny he is to be left to the iudgement of God neither are the Elders to proceede any further in the hearing of witnesses The sixt question Where as in the former age much wealth hath bene giuen by princes and many other to the bishops monasteries c. vnder the name of almes so great riches seeme rather to hurt the bishops then to do them good and monasteries in the church and common wealth are vnprofitable what yet should become of such goods which were once consecrate to the church For seeing the Bishops and ministers haue sufficient of their tithes whereof they may liue well and honestly can the prince with the consent of the states of the kingdome turne the residue eyther to his priuate vse or the good of the commō wealth especially seeyng such goods do consist not onely in tithes but of possessions both in the country the city Which question seeing it seemeth to bee rather ciuil then ecclesiasticall I purposed not to trouble you in this point But whereas many both learned godly amōgst vs are of this minde that those thinges which haue bene once vowed to holy vses cannot be giuen to prophane vses though they be publike I could not but mention the matter vnto you To the sixt question Cōcerning the goods of the church First of all we suppose great heed ought to be taken that none do staine himself with handling the church goods For if God hath taken reuenge of such sacrileges euen amongst the very idolaters what trow we will his iudgement be against thē which haue spoiled his churches and haue prophaned the thinges which were set a parte for his true worship Moreouer it is euident that this turneth greatly to the reproch of the name of God and of his holy gospel as thogh forsooth papistry hath ben abandoned not for the loue of the truth but to rob the church of her goods and as though new theeues haue entered in the roume of the olde Nowe euen as aboundaunce doth ouerwhelme the Church so it is to be feared least she be brought into great straights by want whilest many now a daies are no lesse sparyng and niggardly in vpholding the true ministerie then heretofore kinges and princes themselues haue beene ouerlauishyng we thinke it needefull to keepe a meane in this poynte which so wee take will be the best if first a view be taken of the daily expences which are necessary to be made then if somwhat be laid vp for many thinges extraordinary wheras no iust reckoning can be made and both of these be accounted not sparingly or slenderly but bountifully and liberally seeyng that the Church by the goodnes of God hath plenty Therfore that number is to bee made of parishes and pastors which may very well suffise the people and euery one is to haue an honest liuing allowed Order also is to be taken for the elders who are to assist the pastors that they may conueniently discharge their duety It would be also iniurious that the widowes and childrē of the pastors which are dead should be brought to beggery who in a care of their calling were constrained to lay aside the care of prouiding for their familie Schooles also and vniuersities seing they are the Seminary of the church are not the least part of the care thereof Care also is to bee had of almes houses hospitals of churches that they be kept in reparations and new builded if need require Last of all as I say before seeyng the churches haue plenty order must be taken what shal be brought into the Church treasury yeerely from whēce may be fetched that which may suffise in tyme of warre or famine least then it be to seeke when it should be in a readinesse When all these things shall faithfully frankly be brought by supputation into one summe still yeerely Good and sufficient men are to take order for their collecting such a way as shall be without trouble or strife That which shall be found to be ouerplus is not to be lauished out with other publike reuenues but to be layed vp by it selfe for these are of an other nature though not alwayes gottē after the honestest sort by the couetous priests and we thinke that it may be taken bestowed for the seruice of the kingdome when the publike necessitie thereof doth require it especially if the people be so much the more eased
But seeyng the prince himselfe is a louer of the true religion it is a question whether there may be such an assembly with out the consent or commandement of the prince Whether the ministers alone may meete as often as they will Last of all whether the nobles and other godly men elders which are yeerely chosen with vs out of the people and nobilitie together may lawfully or expediently come without the cōmandement of the king to such assemblies Which assembly of the nobles and people seemeth to some altogether needles vnder a godly prince either because it hath not long since ben receyued by a meere custome without any law and that vnder a prince who then resisted the religion whereby such assemblies myght haue the greater authoritie or els because it may seeme dangerous if so many nobles assemble so oftē without the consent of the king they may somtimes consult of some thing els besides religion Others thinke that this assemblie is in no case to bee refused but rather that it is very needefull that the Nobles and other religious men be present as helpers to their ministers in the assembly bearyng witnesse of their lyfe and the peoples behauiour otherwyse it will after come to passe that if an impious prince raign afterward that neither ministers may safely assemble neyther can the determination be put in execution without the consent helpe ayde of the nobles To the second question Councels are necessarye in the Church for many causes both to the retayning of agreement and also to the seeking of remedies by common aduise for the daungers which fall out And last of all to take order for those that rest not in the iudgement of perticular seignories if they thinke they haue any iniurie done them And these Councels are eyther of a whole nation or of some one Region or Prouince or Diocesse as they haue begun to speake after the description of the Prouinces of Rome deuided into many Seigniories It is necessary that the Councels of the prouinces be deuided for many causes except there be other vrgent causes they would be appoynted rather euery halfe yeere then quarterly least in discoursing of matters they spende the tyme in vayne And it will bee best for the auoyding of ambition that the Councell be not alwayes assembled in the same place of euery prouince but as soone as one halfe yeeres Synode is discussed it may be determined by cōmon consent where shal be the place of the next followyng It will be very well that two of euery seignorie of the prouince chosen by common voyces and sent with some commission be present at these councels one a pastor and the other an Elder or a Deacon Neyther would we haue any strife about sitting who should sitte first or last but euery one to sit as it shall fall out without any contention and the iudgement to bee giuen as any one shall sit Now he that shal gouern the whole action who was chosen for this one thing by common consent of voyce the chiefe pastor of the place beyng in the beginning President which office shall end when the Councell shall be ended There are no matters in question to bee propounded to these Councels to take knowledge of but such as are more spiritual belong to that prouince where they are to be decided without appeale by the word of God the rules there set downe without any brabling or disturbance of the company Yet if any great priuate controuersie shall fall out in the prouinciall Synode where some may thinke that he hath cause to complayne of iniury done vnto him he may put vp his complaint to be decided in a generall councel whē it shal be thought good to assemble it Furthermore it is chiefly required that if all the lawes of the Church be established of the kings christian maiesty it foloweth that the Councels are to be assembled by his commandement and direction and not otherwise Neither yet is there a new commission euery tyme to be sought for of the king for that purpose seeyng his maiesty hath once established a law touching the set tymes of ordinary Synodes But yet if there arise iust cause of suspition of hādling in these metings other matters besides meere ecclesiasticall it shall be safe for the kings maiesty to send one of his subiects whō he will to disgrace by his presence the meeting of the Synodes where yet he is not to be as a iudge except some thing fall out where it is necessary that the authoritie of the ciuill magistrate be put betweene A generall councel of the land is not to be assembled but vpon great causes which seeyng they agree not with set tymes it followeth that they are not to bee standing neither but as often as some thing shall seeme to fall out of so great waight either in doctrine or in gouernment of the church as cannot well be decided but in a generall meeting that prouince is to be carefull to put other prouinces in mind concerning that matter in these halfe yeeres Synodes that with the consent of all or the greater part they go vnto the kings maiesty who as being a christiā prince is to desire nothing more then the peace of the churches ought without any stay or doubting at the suite of the Churches to appoint a place and tyme for a general meeting as the need of the churches shal require And the same order may seeme to be kept in the generall Councels which is in the prouincial whether before the kings maiesty himselfe as in some general councels the emperors of Rome haue bene present or before the honorable lordes of the kings maiestie And last of all whatsoeuer shal be alowed by the common consent of the Synode shall be confirmed by the kinges maiesties expresse authoritie after the example of the godly Emperours The third question Whether the king or the bishops are to call the assembly of the Church and as concernyng what matters they may make lawes To the third question Wee haue aunswered the first part of this question already To the second we answere First it is not lawful no not for the angels themselues to make any lawes for the consciēce but the church is to be vpholden by those which the Lord hath enacted seeyng we are now to looke for no newe reuelation the whole counsell of God touchyng our saluation being fully perfectly made manifest Our iudgement also is that the discipline or good order is to bee sought for out of the word of God and to be kept inuiolable as the second part of christian doctrine Yet there remayneth two things wherof there may yea and there ought to be lawes set downe in the Church For first of all where as euery thyng is not expressely and in so many wordes set downe in the writings of the Prophetes and Apostles therefore in controuersies both concerning doctrine and the substaunce of Church discipline the Councell ought to