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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A04434	The svmme and svbstance of the conference which, it pleased his excellent Maiestie to haue with the lords, bishops, and other of his clergie, (at vvhich the most of the lordes of the councell were present) in his Maiesties priuy-chamber, at Hampton Court. Ianuary 14. 1603. / Contracted by VVilliam Barlovv, Doctor of Diuinity, and Deane of Chester. Whereunto are added, some copies, (scattered abroad,) vnsauory, and vntrue.	Barlow, William, d. 1613.	1604 (1604)	STC 1456.5; ESTC S100949	36,617	118

complained of and that none except it vvere such as D. Reyn. who were supposed would confute them had libertie by authoritie to buy them Againe such books came into the Realme by many secret conueyances so that there could not bee a perfect notice had of their importation Secondly to the particular instaunce of Ficlerus hee saide that the author De iure c. was a great Disciplinarian whereby it did appeare what aduantage that sorte gaue vnto the Papistes who mutatis personis could apply their owne argumentes against Princes of the Religion but for his owne parte hee saide hee detested both the Author and the Applyer alike My Lord Cecill here taxing also the vnlimited libertie of the dispersing and diuulging these Popish and seditious Pamphletes both in Powles Churchyeard the Vniuersities instanced one lately set forth published namely Speculū Tragicum which both his M tie the L. Henry Howard now Earle of Northampton termed a daungerous booke both for matter intention the Lord Chauncellor also diuiding all such bookes into Latine and English concluded that these last dispersed did most harme yet the Lord Secretarie affirmed that my Lord of London had done therein what might bee for the suppressing of them and that he knewe no man else had done any thing in that kinde but he At length it pleased his excellent Maiestie to tell D. Reyn. that hee was a better Colledge man then a Statesman for if his meaning were to taxe the Bishop of London for suffering those bookes betwixt the Secular Priestes and Iesuites lately published so freely to passe abroad His Maiestie would haue him and his Associates to know and willed them also to acquaint their adherents and friendes abroad therewith that the saide Bishoppe was much iniured and slaundered in that behalfe who did nothing therein but by warrant from the Lordes of the Councell whereby both a Schisme betwixt them was nourished also his Maiesties owne cause and Title handled the Lord Cecill affirming thereunto that therefore they were tolerated because in them was the Title of Spaine confuted The L. Treasurer added that D. Reyn. might haue obserued another vse of those Bookes viz. that now by the testimony of the Priestes themselues her late Maiestie and the State were cleared of that imputation of putting Papistes to death for their consciences onely and for their Religion seeing in those books they themselues confesse that they were executed for treason D. Reyn. excused himselfe expounding his cōplaint not meant of such bookes as had beene printed in England but such as came from beyond the Seas as Commentaries both in Philosophy and diuinitie And these were the partes of the first head concerning puritie of Doctrine Touching Pastors Resident Learned To the second generall point concerning the planting of Ministers learned in euery Parish it pleased his Maiestie to aunswere that hee had consulted with his Bishops about that whome hee found willing and readie to second him in it inueighing herein against the negligence and carelesnesse which hee heard of many in this land but as Subita euacuatio was periculosa so subita mutatio Therefore this matter was not for a present resolution because to appoint to euery Parrish a sufficient Minister were impossible the Vniuersities would not afford them Again he had fouud alreadie that hee had more learned men in this Realme then hee had sufficient maintenance for so that maintenance must first bee prouided and then the other to bee required In the meane time ignorant Ministers if young to be remoued if there were no hope of their amendment if olde their death must bee expected that the next course may bee better supplyed and so concluded this point with a most religious and zealous protestation of doing something dayly in this case because Ierusalem could not be built vp in a day The Bishoppe of Winchester made knowne to the King that this insufficiency of the Cleargie bee it as it is comes not by the Bishops defaultes but partly by Lay Patrones who present very meane men to their Cures wherof in himselfe hee shewed an Instance how that since his being Bishop of Winchester very fewe Maisters of Artes were presented to good Benefices partly by the law of the land which admitteth of very meane and tollerable sufficiēcy in any Clearks so that if the Bishop should not admit them then presently a Quare impedit is sent out against him Here my Lord of London kneeling humbly desired his Maiestie because hee saw as hee saide it was a time of mouing Petitions that hee might haue leaue to make two or three First that there might be amongst vs a Praying Ministerie another while for whereas there are in the Ministerie many excellent duties to be performed as the absoluing of the Penitent Praying for and blessing of the people administring of the Sacraments and the like it is come to that passe now that some sort of men thought it the onely dutie required of a Minister to spend the time in speaking out of a Pulpit sometimes God wot very vndiscreetly and vnlearnedly and this with so great iniury and preiudice to the celebratiō of Diuine seruice that some Ministers would be content to walk in the Churchyeard till Sermon time rather then to be present at publke Prayer He confessed that in a Church new to be planted preaching was most necessarie but among vs now long established in the faith he thought it not the onely necessary dutie to bee performed and the other to be so profanely neglected and contemned VVhich motion his Maiestie liked exceeding well very acutely taxing the hypocrisie of our times which placeth all Religion in the eare through which there is an easy passage but Prayer which expresseth the heartes affection and is the true deuotion of the mindes as a matter putting vs to ouer-much trouble wherin there concurre if prayer be as it ought an vnpartiall consideration of our owne estates a due examination to whome we pray an humble cōfession of our sinnes with an harty sorrow for them and repentance not seuered from faith is accounted and vsed as the least part of Religion The second was that till such time as learned and sufficient men might bee planted in euery Congregation that godly Homilies might be read and the number of thē encreased and that the Opponents would labour to bring them into credite againe as formerly they brought them into contempt Euery man saith hee that can pronounce well cannot indite well The Kinges Maiestie approued this motion especially where the liuing is not sufficient for maintenance of a learned Preacher as also in places where plenty of Sermons are as in the Citie and great Townes In the Countrey villages where Preachers are not neare together hee could wish preaching but where there are a multitude of Sermons there he would haue Homilies to bee read diuerse times and therein hee asked the assent of the Plaintiffes and they confesse it A preaching Ministery

one M. Iohn Black who the last Conference his Maiestie had with the Ministers in Scotland in December 1602. tolde him that hee woulde holde conformitie with his Maiesties ordinances for matters of doctrine but for matters of Ceremonie they were to bee left in Christian Libertie vnto euery man as hee receiued more and more light from the illumination of Gods spirit euen till they goe mad quoth the King with their owne light but I will none of that I will haue one Doctrine and one discipline one Religion in substance and in ceremonie and therefore I charge you neuer speake more to that point how farre you are bound to obey when the Church hath ordained it And so asked them again if they had anything else to say D. Reynaldes obiected the example of the Brasen Serpent demolished stampt to powder by Ezechias because the people abused it to Idolatry wishing that in like sort the Crosse should bee abandoned because in the time of Popery it had beene superstitiously abused Whereunto the Kings Maiesty answered diuerse waies First quoth hee though I bee sufficiently perswaded of the Crosse in Baptisme and the commendable vse thereof in the Church so long yet if there were nothing else to moue mee this verie argument were an inducement to mee for the retaining of it as it is now by order established For inasmuch as it was abused so you say to superstition in time of popery it doth plainely imply that is was well vsed before Popery I will tell you I haue liued among this sorte of men speaking to the Lords and Bishops euer since I was tenne yeares olde but I may say of my selfe as Christ did of himselfe Though I liued amongst them yet since I had abilitye to iudge I was neuer of them neither did any thing make mee more to condemne and detest their courses then that they did so peremptorily disallow of all thinges which at all had beene vsed in Popery For my part I knowe not how to answere the obiection of the Papistes when they charge vs with nouelties but truely to tel them that their abuses are newe but the thinges which they abused wee retaine in their primitiue vse and forsake onely the nouell corruption By this argument wee might renounce the Trinity and all that is holie because it was abused in Poperie and speaking to Doctor Reyn. merily they vsed to weare hose shooes in Popery therefore you shall now go barefoote Secondly quoth his Maiestie what resemblance is there betweene the Brasen Serpent a materiall visible thing and the signe of the Crosse made in the ayre Thirdly I am giuen to vnderstande by the Bishops and I finde it true that the Papistes themselues did neuer ascribe any power or spirituall grace to the Signe of the Crosse in baptisme Fourthly you see that the materiall Crosses which in time of Popery were made for men to fall downe before them as they passed by them to worship them as the Idolatrous Iewes did the Brasen Serpent are demolished as you desire The next thing which was obiected was the wearing of the Surplis a kinde of garment which the Priestes of Isis vsed to weare Surely saith his Maiestie till of late I did not thinke that it had bene borrowed from the Heathen because it is commonly termed aragge of Poperie in scorne but were it so yet neither did wee now border vpon Heathenish nations neither are any of them conuersant with vs or commorant among vs who thereby might take occasion to bee strengthened or confirmed in Paganisme for then there were iust cause to suppresse the wearing of it but seeing it appeared out of antiquitie that in the celebration of diuine seruice a different habite appertained to the ministerie and principally of white Linnen hee sawe no reason but that in this Church as it had beene for comelinesse and for order sake it might be still continued This being his constant resolute opinion that no Church ought further to separate it selfe from the Church of Rome either in Doctrine or Ceremony then shee had departed from her selfe when shee was in her florishing and best estate and from Christ her Lord head And heere againe he asked what more they had to say D. Reyn. tooke exceptions at those wordes in the Common Prayer Booke of Matrimonie VVith my bodie I thee worship His Maiestie looking vpon the place I was made beleeue saith hee that the Phrase did import no lesse then Diuine worship and adoration but by examination I finde that it is an vsuall English terme as a Gentleman of Worshippe c. and the sense agreeable to Scriptures giuing honour to the wife c. But turning to Doctor Reyn. with smiling saith his Maiestie Many a man speakes of Robin Hood who neuer shot in his bowe if you had a good wife your selfe you would thinke all the honour and Worshippe you could doe her were well bestowed The Deane of Sarum mentioned the Ring in marriage which Doctor Reyn approued and the King confessed that hee was married withall and added that hee thought they woulde proue to bee scarse well maried who are not maried with a Ring He likewise spake of the Churching of women by the name of Purification which being read out of the Booke his Maiestie very well allowed it and pleasantly saide that women were loath enough of themselues to come to Church and therefore he would haue this or any other occasion to drawe them thither And this was the substance and summe of that third generall point At which pause it growing toward night his Maiestie asked againe if they had any more to say if they had because it was late they should haue another day but Doctor Reyn. told him they had but one pointe more which was the last generall heade but it pleased his Maiestie first to aske what they could say to the Cornerd Cap they all approued it well then saith his Maiestie turning himselfe to the Bishops you may now safely weare your Caps but I shall tell you if you should walke in one streete in Scotland with such a Cap on your head if I were not with you you shoulde bee stoned to death with your Cap. In the fourth generall heade touching Discipline D. Reyn. first tooke exception to the committing of Ecclesiasticall censures vnto Lay-Chancelors his reason was that in the Statute made in King Henrie his time for their authoritie that way was abrogated in Queene Maries time and not reuiued in the late Queenes daies and abridged by Bishops themselues 1571. ordering that the said LayChācelors should not excommunicate in matters of correction and Anno 1584. and 1589 not in matters of Instance but to bee done only by them who had power of the Keyes His Maiestie answered that hee had already conferred with his Bishoppes about that point and that such order should be taken therein as was conuenient willing him in the meane time to goe to some other matter if hee had