Two Speeches Made in the HOUSE OF PEERS The one November 20. 1675. The other in November 1678. BY A PROTESTANT PEER Of the REALM of ENGLAND HAGUE Printed 1680. The E of S 's Speech in the House of LORDS upon the debate of appointing a Day for hearing Doctor Shirley's Cause 20. November 1675. My Lords OUr All is at stake therefore you must give me leave to speak freely before we part with it My Lord Bishop of Salisbury is of Opinion that we should rather appoint a day to consider what to do upon the Petition than to appoint a day of Hearing and my Lord Keeper for I may name them at a Committee of the whole House tells us in very eloquent and studied Language that he will propose us a way far less liable to exception and much less offensive and injurious to our own Priviledg then that of appointing a day of Hearing and I beseech your Lordships did you not after all these fine words expect some admirable proposal But it ended in this that your Lordships should appoint a day nay a very long day to consider what you would do in it And my Lord hath undertaken to convince you that this is your only course by several undeniable reasons the first of which is that it is against our Judicature to hear this Cause which is not proper before us nor ought to be relieved by us To this my Lords give me leave to answer that I did not expect from a man professing the Law that after an answer by order of the Court was put in and a day had been appointed for Hearing which by some accident was set aside and the Plaintiff moving for a second day to be assigned that ever without hearing the Councel on both sides the Court did enter into the merits of the Cause and if your Lordships should do it here in a Cause attended with the circumstances this is it would not only be an apparent injustice but a plain subterfuge to accord a point you durst not maintain But my Lords second reason speaks the matter more clearly for that is because it is a doubtful case whether the Commons have not Priviledge and therefore my Lord would have you to appoint a further day to consider of it which in plain English is that your Lordships should confess upon your Books that you conceive upon second thoughts a doubtful case for so your appointing a day will do and that for no other reason but because my Lord Keeper thinks it so I hope will not be a reason to prevail with your Lordships since we cannot yet by experience tell that his Lordship is capable of thinking your Lordships in the right in any matter against the judgment of the House of Commons it is too hard a thing for the ablest of men to change ill habits But my Lords the reason is the most admirable of all which he stiles unanswerable viz. That your Lordships are all convinced in your own Consciences that this if prosecuted will cause a breach I beseech your Lordships consider whither this argument thus applied would not overthrow the Law of Nature and all the Laws of Right and Property in the World for it is an argument and a very good one that you should not stand or insist upon claims where you have not a clear right or where the Question is not of consequence and of moment in a matter that may produce a dangerous and pernicious breach between Relations Persons or Bodies Politick joyned in interest in high concerns together So on the other hand if the obstinacy of the party in the wrong shall be made an unanswerable argument for the other party to recede and give up his just right how long shall the people keep their Liberties or the Princes the Governors of the World their Prerogative How long the Husband maintain his Dominion or any man his property from his friends or neighbours obstinacy But my Lords when I hear my Lord Keeper open so eloquently the fatal consequences of a breach I cannot forbear to fall into some admiration how it comes to pass that if the Consequences be so fatal the Kings Ministers in the House of Commons of which there are several that are of the Cabinet and have daily resort to His Majesty and have the Direction and Trust of his Affairs I say that none of those should press the consequences there or give the least stop to the Career of that House in this business but all the Votes concerning this affair nay even that Vote that no Appeals from any Court of Equity is cognizable by the House of Lords should pass nemine contradiconte and yet all the great Ministers with us here the Bishops and other Lords of greatest dependance upon the Court contend this point as if it were pro noris foris I hear His Majesty in Scotland hath been pleased to Declare against Appeals in Parliament and I cannot much blame the Court if they think the Lord Keeper and the Judges being of His Majesties making and of his Power to change that the Justice of the Nation is safe enough and I my Lords may think so to during this Kings time though I hear Scotland not without reason complain already yet how future Princes may use this Power and how Judges may be made not men of Ability and Integrity but men of Relation and dependance and who will do what they are commanded and all mens Causes come to be Judged and Estates disposed of as Great men of the Court please My Lords the constitution of our Government hath provided better for us and I can never believe so wise a Body as the House of Commons will prove that foolish woman which pulls down her house with her own hands My Lords I must presume in the next place to say something to what was offered by my Lord Bishop of Salisbury a man of great Learning and Ability and always verst in a closer and stronger way of reasoning than the business of that Noble Lord I answered before did accustome him to and the Reverend Prelate hath stated the matter very fair on Two Heads The first is whether hearing of Causes and Appeals and especially in this point where the Members have priviledge be so material to us that it ought not to give way to the reason of State and greater Affairs that press us at this time The second was if this business be of that moment yet whether the appointing a day to consider of this Petition would prove of that consequence and prejudice to our Cause My Lords to this give me leave in the first place to say that your Matter is no less than your whole Judicature and your Judicature is the Life and Soul of your Dignity and Peer Right of England you will quickly grow burdensome if you grow useless you have now the greatest and most useful ends of Parliament principally in you which is not to make new Laws but to redress
grievances and to maintain the old Land mark The House of Commons business is to complain your Lordships to redress not only from them that are the Eyes of the Nation but all other particular persons that Address to you A Land may groan under a multitude of Laws and I believe ours doth and when Laws grow so multiplyed they prove oftner snares than directions and security of the People I look upon it as the ignorance and weakness of the latter Age if not worse the effect of the design of ill-men that it is grown a general Opinion that where there is not particular direction in some Acts of Parliament the Law is defective as if the common Law had not provided much better shorter and plainer for the peace and quiet of the Nation then intricate long and perplext Statutes do which hath made work for the Lawyers given power to the Judges lessened your Lordships power and in a good measure unhinged the security of the people My Lord Bishop tells you that your whole Judicature is not in question but only the priviledge of the House of Commons of their Members not appearing at your Bar My Lords were it no more yet for Justice and the peoples sake you ought not to part with it how far a Priviledge of the House of Commons their Servants and those they own doth extend Westminster Hall may with grief tell your Lordships and the same priviledge of their Members being not sued must be allowed to your Lordships as well and what a Salver of Justice you would prove whilst they are Lords for Life and you for Inheritance let the World judge for my part I am willing to come to a conference whenever the dispute shall begin again and dare undertake to your Lordships that they have neither President Reason nor any justifiable pretence to show against us and therefore my Lords if you part with this your undoubted Right meerly for asking where will this stop And my Lords we are sure it doth not stop here for they have already nem ne contradicente Voted against your Lordships power of Appeals from any Court of Equity so that you may plainly see where this Caution and Reason of State means to stop not on jot short of laying your Judicature aside for the same reason of Passing the King money of not interrupting good Laws or what ever else must of necessity avoid a breach upon what score soever and your Lordships plainly see the breach will be made upon your Judicature as upon those so that when your Lordships have appointed a day a very long day to consider whether Dr. Shirleys Case be not too hot to handle and when you have done the same for Sir Nicholas Staughton whose Petition I hear is coming in your Lordships must proceed to a Vote to lay all private business aside for Six Weeks for that Phrase of private business hath obtained upon this last age upon that which is your most publick duty and business namely the Administration of Justice and I can tell your Lordships besides the Reason that leads to it that I have some intelligence of denying such a Vote for upon the second day of our sitting at the rising of the Lords House there came a Gentleman into the Lobby belonging to a very great Person and asked in great haste are the Lords up have they passed the Vote and being asked what Vote he answered of no private business for Six Weeks My Lords if this be your business see where you are if we are to Post from our Judicature for fear of offending the House of Commons for Six Weeks that they in the interim may pass the Moneys and other acceptable Bills that His Majesty thinks of Importment There are too many Wise men of the House of Commons to be laid asleep and to pass all those acceptable things and when they have done to let us be let loose upon them will they not remember this next time there is want of Money or may they not rather be assured by those Ministers that are among them and go on so unanimously with them that the King is on their side in this Controversie and when the publick business is over our time shall be too short to make a breach or vindicate our selves in the matter And then I beg your Lordships where are you after you have Assented but the last Session your Right of the Judicature so highly even in this point and after the House of Commons had gone so highly against you on the other hand as to post up their Declarations and Remonstrances upon Westminster Hall Door the very next Session after you Post down the very same Causes and not only those but all Judicature whatsoever I beseech your Lordships will not this prove a fatal President and Confession against your selves It is a Maxime and a Rational one among the Lawyers that one President where the Case has been contested is worth a thousand where there hath been no contest My Lords in saying this I humbly suppose I have given a sufficient answer to my Lord Bishops two Questions whether the appointing of a day to consider what you will do with the Petition which is of that consequence to your Rights that it is a doubtful Cause and infinitely stronger than if it were a new thing to you never heard of before for it is that very same case and very same thing desired in that Case that you formerly ordered and so strangely affected so that upon time and all the deliberations imaginable you declare your selves to become doubtful and you put your selves out of your own hands into that Power you have no reason to believe on your side in this Question My Lords I have all the duty imaginable to His Majesty and should with all submission give way to any thing that he should think of importance to his Affairs But in this point it is to alter the Constitution of the Government If you are asked to lay this aside and there is no reason of State can be an Argument to your Lordships to turn your selves out of that Interest you having the Constitution of the Government It is not only your concern that you maintain your selves in it but it is the concern of the poorest men in England that you keep your Station It is your Lordships concern and that so highly that I will be bold to say that the King can give none of requital or recompence for it What are empty Titles what is present Power or Riches or a great Estate wherein I have no fixed or firm Property It is the Constitution of the Government and maintaining that secures your Lordships and every man else in what he hath The poorest Lord if the Birth right of Peerage be maintained hath a fair prospect before him for himself and his Posterity But the greatest Title with the greatest present Power and Riches is a mean Creature and maintains this an absolute Monarchy no otherwise
than by servile and low flatteries upon uncertain terms My Lords it is not only your Interest by the Interest of the Nation that you maintain your Rights For let the House of Commons and Gentry think what they please there is no Prince that ever Governs without a Nobility or Army if he will if you will not have one you must have another for the Monarchy cannot long support or keep it self from tumbling into a Democratical Republick Your Lordships and the people have the same Cause and the same Enemies My Lords would you be in favour with your King 't is a very ill way to it to put your selves out of a future capacity to be considerable in his service I do not find in Story or in modern experience but that it is better and a man is much regarded that is still in a capacity and opportunity to serve then he that hath wholly deprived himself of all for his Princes service and therefore declare that I will serve my Prince as a Peer but I will not Destroy the Peerage to serve him My Lords I have heard of twenty foolish Models and Expedients to secure the Justice of the Nation and yet to take this Right from your Lordships as the King by his Commission appointing Commoners to hear Appeals or that the Twelve Judges should be the persons or the persons should be appointed by Act of Parliament which are all not only to take away your Lordships first Rights that ought not to be altered any more than any other part of this Government but are in themselves when well weighed ridiculous I must deal freely with your Lordships these things could never have risen in mens minds but that there hath been some kind of provocation that hath given the first rise to it I pray my Lords forgive me if upon this occasion I put you in mind of committing divers and the scardal of it Those droves of Ladies that attend all Causes 't was come to that pass that men even hired or borrowed of their friends handsome Sisters or Daughters to deliver their Petitions And yet for all this I must say that your Judgments have been Sacred unless in one or two Causes and those are most to that Bench from whence I apprehend most danger There is one thing I had almost forgot which is the conjuncture of time the thing upon which our Reason of State turns And so my Lords give me leave to say if this be not a time of leisure for you to vindicate your Priviledges you must never expect one I could almost say that the Harmony good Agreement and Concord that is to be prayed for at most other times may be fatal to us now We owe the Peace of these two last years and the dis-ingagement from the French Interest to the House differing from the Sence and Opinion of Whitehall So at this time of all things in the World this Nation hath most reason to apprehend dangerous is a general Peace which cannot now happen without very advantageous termes to the French and disadvantages to the house of Austria We are the Kings Counsellours and if so have right to differ and give contrary Counsels to those that are nearest about him I fear the words advance a general Peace I am sure I would advise against it and hinder it at this time by all the ways imaginable I heartily wish nothing from you may add Weight and Reputation to those Councels that would assist the French No money for Ships nor preparations you can make personal assurance our Prince can have can secure us from the French if they are at leisure He is grown the most Potent of us all at Sea he hath built Twenty four Ships the last year and hath Thirty more in number than we besides the advantage that all our Ships are out of order and his exquisitely provided for that every Ship hath its particular Store-house It is incredible the money that he hath bestowed in making Harbours he makes Nature it self give way to the vastness of his expences And after all this shall a Prince so wise so intent in his Affairs be thought to make all this preparation to Sail over Land to fall upon the Back of Hungaria and to batter the Walls of Camaurkie or is it possible he should oversee his Interest in Seizing of Ireland a thing so feazable to him If he be Master of the Seas as he certainly now is and which when attained gives all the Mediterranean East and West India Trade and renders him both by Scituation and exact Harbours perpetual Master of the Seas without dispute My Lords to conclude this point I fear the Court of England is verily mistaken in it and I do not wish them the Reputation of the Concurrence of the Kingdom and this out of sincere Loyalty to His Majesty and Love to my Nation My Lords I have one thing more to trouble you with and peradventure it 's a Consideration of the greatest Weight and Concern both to your Lordships and the whole Nation I have often seen in this House that the Arguments with strongest Reasons and most convincing to the Lay Lords in general have not had the same effect in the Bishops Bench but that they have unanimously gone against us in matters that many of us have thought Essential and undoubted Rights And I consider that it is not possible that men of great Learning Piety and Reason as their Lordships should not have the same care of doing right and the same conviction what is right upon clear reason offered that other your Lordships have My Lords I must necessarily think we differ in Principles and then it is very easie to apprehend what is the clearest sence to men of my Principle may not at all perswade or affect the Consciences of the best men of a different one I put your Lordships Case as it is now plainly before us my Principle is that the King is King by the Law by the same Law that the poor man enjoys his Cottage and so it becomes the concern of every man in England that hath his Liberty to maintain and to defend to his utmost the King in all his Lawful Rights and Prerogatives And my Principle is also that the House of Lords and the Judicature and Rights belonging to it are an Essential part of the Government established by the same Law the King Governing and Administring Justice by his House of Lords and advising with both his Houses of Parliament in all important matters is the Government I own am born under am obliged to If ever there should happen in future Ages which God forbid a King Governing by an Army without a Parliament it is a Government I own not am not obliged to nor was born under According to this Principle every honest man that holds it must endeavour equally to preserve the frame of the Government in all parts of it and cannot satisfie his Conscience to give up the Lords House