wordes be simply beleeued let my Confutation of the Apologie be vewed and there I shal be founde touching these odious pointes of these princes Variance with the Popes of their time to haue vttered these woordes farre otherwise then he here reporteth Confut. fol. 339. b. Concerning the case between these three Kinges of England and the Bishoppes of Rome for the tyme being I say litle If they did wel and the Bishoppes euil they haue their rewarde the other their punishment If otherwise or how so euer ech one at Gods iudgement shal haue his deserued measure But be it graunted al were true ye say though we know the more parte to be false Henrie the secōd S. Thomas Arch bishop of Canturbury King Iohn What though king Henrie the Second were euil entreated of Pope Alexander about the murthering of S. Thomas the Archebishop of Canturburie and King Iohn likewise of that zelous and learned Pope Innocentius the thirde about the stirre he made against the Church for cause of Steuen Lankton Archebishop of Canturburie Henrie the .8 This is no iust cause to forsake the Churche King Henrie the eigth likewise of the Popes in our time about matters yet fresh bleeding Is this a good cause why ye who haue nothing to doo with Princes matters now ended and buried should forsake the Churche change your Faith change the whole order of Religion and condemne al before your time for a thousand yeres Bicause the Bishoppes of Rome haue done euil wil ye geue ouer the Faith of the Churche of Rome Bicause the Popes did wronge to Princes wil ye doo wrong to your selues Bicause the Popes were at Variance with these three Kinges wil ye be at Variance with God Bicause they excommunicated them wil ye excommunicate your selues I haue heard of a foole that being striken of one standing a looffe of would eftsones strike an other that stood next him But I neuer heard of any so foolish that seeing an other striken would therefore kill him selfe Verely your Apostasie and departing from the Catholique Churche is to weightie a matter to be defended with so light a reason Thou maist see good Reader that here I take not vpon me in Defence of those Popes to answere vnto these matters nor shortely as M. Iewel saith nor at length nor in light manner nor in sad manner which matters he calleth Tyrannical iniuries and iuste causes of griefe The more cleerely to shewe how litle good matter our new Vsurping Clergie haue to bring for the excuse and Defence of the Alteration they haue made in Religion and of their Schisme and departing from the Catholike Churche bicause in their Apologie they alleged these Practises of the Popes only I demaunde their tale for their better aduantage being graunted to be true whiche yet I saied expressely was knowen to be false for the more parte what reliefe their cause could haue thereby and how the euil doinges of the Bishoppes of Rome if it were graunted they did euil therein could be drawen to Defence of their owne worse doing To whiche demaunde M. Iewel by his silence in his pretensed Defence maketh al the worlde witnesse Defence Pag. 733. how vnhable he is to answere Howbeit in that place he vseth his common sleight by cutting awaie the chiefe parte of my tale wherein lyeth the weighte and so dischargeth him selfe of the paines of answering Any booke may so sone be answered Touching these Popes and these Kinges when M. Iewel or any of his felow Ministers shal truely and with sufficient reason proue vnto vs that Henrie the Second did wel when he gaue occasion that the blessed Martyr S. Thomas Archebishop of Canturburie was murdered that al King Iohns attemptes against the Churche for cause of Steuen Lankton Archebishop and primate of the same prouince were iuste and right and that King Henrie the eight did wel and according either to the holy Scriptures or doctrine of the auncient and learned Fathers when he tooke vpon him to be Supreme Head in earth of the Churche of England immediatly vnder Christe whiche no temporal prince euer tooke vpon him before and likewise when for maintenance of the same title he hanged headded and quartered so many holy and learned men of al degrees now blessed Sainctes and crowned Martyrs in heauen when I say either he or they or any of them shal proue this much vnto vs in such sorte as I said before then wil we say with them ô worthy Kinges ô naughty Popes yea then wil we saie too ô the crowe is white Neuerthelesse I doo not here iustifie al the deedes of the Popes But what so euer they did that is no sufficient cause why these menne should forsake their Faith and departe from the felowship of the Churche Item there Iewel But concerning the Maiestie and right of Kinges and Emperours M. Harding telleth vs they haue their first authoritie by the positiue Lavve of Nations and can haue no more povver then the people hath of vvhom they take their temporal iurisdiction Confutat Fol. 318. b. Harding If I haue herein spoken euil geue witnesse against me of euil Ye would faine finde a faulte I perceiue if ye wiste wherein You seeme not wel to vnderstand what you saie nor whereof you affirme But you allege the Scriptures Per me Reges regnant Prouer. 8. By me Kinges doo reigne And there is no power but from God very learnedly forsooth As though the auctoritie Rom. 13. that Princes haue by the positiue lawe of Nations and the power whiche they haue of the people were not of God as who vseth that meane to conueie that power vnto them Item there Iewel M. Harding euen in the selfe same booke vnder certaine general threates chargeth your Maiestie vvith disordered presumption by the example of Ozias the vvicked King vpon vvhom as he vntruly saith God sent his vengeance for the like Confut. fol. 298. a. Harding You would faine the Queenes Maiestie should conceiue hatred against me I perceiue M. Iewel and thereto you applie al your skil and cunning But Sir who deserueth more thankes at God and the Princes for the time being he that telleth them the Truthe and in time geueth warning to beware of Goddes Vengeance before it be to late or he that for his owne wordly interest holdeth his peace and leadeth them into a wrong way from the whiche if they returne not backe they are sure at length to feele either the temporal smarte of Goddes Vengeance in this life or the euerlasting smarte in the life to come Ye flatter ye flatter your Princes M. Iewel ye deceiue them ye blinde them ye worke al meanes possible that the Truthe be not brought to their vnderstanding least were it knowen and of them perceiued ye should be turned out of your welthy roumes and driuen againe to Geneua I had almost said Gehenna from whence ye came Certainely ye shutte vp the kingdome of Heauen from Princes and others so
of the matter laie in any one of them But for that natural reason should partely declare to the ignorant who are not hable to conceiue deeper Argumentes that the Order whiche our Sauiour leafte in his Churche the same to be ruled by one general Head doth so sensibly sticke in euery mannes conceite that vnderstandeth the force of any good natural reason that you or any of your felowes with any heapes of impertinent sentences of al sortes of Writers with whiche you fournish vs out bookes of great bulke shal neuer be hable to prooue the contrarie Disorder not 〈◊〉 reasons M. Iewel take them as my selfe haue sette 〈…〉 marke what force they are of when they be linked in one Then ouerthrowe them if you can I am assured you can not The other three reasons to the which you say ye answered in your Replie are so by M. Stapleton returned vpon you againe and your whole answere reprooued that the worlde now seeth what smal worship ye haue wonne thereby I would aduise you to beginne againe and labour for a more sufficient answere elles you may be sure that menne wel geue you ouer for one that promiseth much and perfourmeth nothing Iewel Pag. 100. I graunt Dissension and quarelles be the sooner ended vvhen al thinges be put ouer to one man so that the same man maie liue for euer and stil continue in one minde and neuer alter Harding M. Iewel alloweth no one man to be ruler except he may liue for euer and continue in one minde which is fonde Liue for euer what a blinde answere is this The .11 Chapt. I praie you Sir did Moyses when he had the gouernement of the people of Israel make an ende of no Dissensions and quarelles emong them I weene you wil say yeas And yet he liued not emonge them for euer pardy Did not Iosue so Did not Samuel Did not Dauid Did not Salomon and others Yet I trowe you wil not say they liued for euer Doth not euery Prince dailie within his owne Realme so Euery Bisshop within his owne Diocese the Archebishop within his owne Prouince And yet ye knowe they liue not for euer Heard euer any man a fonder answere made then this The first foure General Councelles ended diuers matters of contention and yet they that were there liued not for euer For very shame cal backe this vnsauery answere againe or at least put it out of your booke at your nexte Impression if the first finde good vtterance and lye not vpon you handes Iewel Ibidem And stil continevv in one minde and neuer alter Harding That is the very cause perhappes why Archeheretiques can make an ende of no Dissension bicause their mindes doo daily 2. Tim. 3. and hourely alter as S. Paule saieth of certaine curious wemenne that were alwaies learning alwaies talking and babling of Scripture and neuer drawing to any good ende neuer atteining to the knowledge of truthe Princes bounde by M. Ievvel to continue stil in one minde You haue bounde Kinges and Princes very hard to continew stil in one minde and neuer to alter so that if one haue cause to warre against the other after warre once entred they may neuer intreate of peace They muste continew stil in one minde and neuer alter They muste keepe so precise and so holesome a diet that they maie liue for euer If they make any statute that is good and necessarie to be kepte for some one time perhappes for the space of v. or vj. yeres afterwarde when the Continuance of suche statutes shal be founde to breede greate disorder and inconuenience to the Realme it shal not be lawful for them to repeale them bicause M. Iewel hath bounde them to continew in the minde they were and neuer to alter For if they once alter how so euer and wherein so euer it be dissensions and quarelles saith he can not by them be appeased and ended and therefore good gouernment shal faile Iewel Pag. 100. But oftentimes one Pope is founde contrarie to an other Harding Answere to the contrarities in certaine Popes reprehended by M. Iewel and to the violating of Pope Formosus dead Carkasse c. Not so ofte as one king is founde contrarie to an other The .12 Chapt. Read the Stories you shal find it true But Lorde what a doo ye make here about the Contrarieties of certaine Popes and yet you shal neuer finde one Pope contrarie to an other in any article of our Faith as heauy a Maister as you are vnto them But why doo you not cal to minde what varietie of opinions ye haue had emong your selues fith ye brought your Gospel first into the Realme Remember within so shorte a time how many sortes of Communions haue benne seene how many sectes haue risen emong your selues How farre the Puritanes who haue wel nigh tried out the Quintessence of your Gospel Puritanes and perhappes at their nexte proceding wil vtterly denie God how farre I saie they are alienated and diuided from you and that not only for Square cappes and side gownes but also for other matters that in their time shal be reueled I wil saie nothing here of the Arians Anabaptistes Libertines and Atheistes who since the first planting of your Gospel haue crepte into the realme and now swarme in diuers places there vncontrolled who if they had the ful libertie ye preached when ye first laboured to supplante the Catholiques were wel like shortely to set you also beside the stoole But they for that their time is not yet come must doo as they maie and be passed ouer as not seene that al the charitable blowes of your fyrie Gospel might light vpon the Catholiques headdes Your manner alwaies is in the allegation of histories as also of other thinges to adde somwhat of your owne as you doo in telling vs how Pope Steuen vnburied his predecessour Pope Formosus â—abellicus falsified by M. Ievvel Sabellicus Ennead 9. lib. 1. where you reporte that he defaced and mangled his naked carkasse The historie maketh mention of no suche mangling and defacing of his Carkasse onely it sheweth that the forefingers of his right hande whiche had benne annointed and consecrated were cut of and that the Pontifical garmentes wherein Popes were wonte of an olde custome to be buried were taken of from his corps A man that had heard of defacing and mangling a naked carkasse would haue thought that the carkasse had benne hewed in peeces or otherwise spitefully mangled Leaue leaue that il propertie for shame M. Iewel Adde not diminishe not tel stories as you finde them and so shal you geue your Aduersarie lesse aduantage against you It is maruaile it came not into your head by diligent searche to finde out a dissension emong the Popes bicause some of them loued rather to eate fishe then fleshe some vsed to rise sooner in the morning some later some were of stature higher some lower And least your storie should be vnrequitted it were
God M. Harding is not hable to shevve vs one Harding The gouernment of the whole Churche exercised by the Popes actually If the Popes manner had benne to bring menne in subiection by the Sworde and force of Armes The 20. Chapt. as it is not whiche thing Kinges haue vsed to doo then had ye as wel knowen the Popes Vniuersal Gouernment whiche you had rather cal Dominion by practise as you doo nowe knowe the Kinges Or were it so that ye fealte so sensibily the paine of Excommunication as ye doo the tormentes that Kinges vse against Rebelles when they once drawe their sworde of correction you would muche more feare to offende the Pope then ye doo now the force of Princes But your manner is alwaies to feare him that hath the sensible rodde in his hande ready at a worde to geue the stroke the Pope bicause he vseth long patience before he striketh and when he striketh his stroke bringeth no bodily paine but causeth a spiritual separation of mannes soule for his contumacie from the vnitie of the Church and from God whiche is not sensibly fealte therefore ye feare to offende Princes and vtterly set nought by the Popes autoritie But what if none of the Popes hitherto euer exercised their vniuersal gouernment ouer the whole Churche of God whiche in deede is not true is theâ—â— right therefore any thing the lesse Not at al. The Duke of Sauoie you know hath in right the Dominion and rule of Geneua yet they of the towne suche is the spirite that your holy Gospel breatheth into the people like errant Rebelles haue kept him out of his right many yeres And what if this be not true that you saie What if diuers Popes maie be named that haue ruled the whole Churche both the East and the Weast as farre as any Christian Emperour extended his Dominion Maie you not then reuoke your stoute assertion You haue read I suppose of the great councel of Chalcedon vnder Pope Leo and of the great Councel of Lateran vnder Innocentius tertius and the Councelles of Florence and of Lions How saie you I praie you finde ye not there that the Greeke Churche as wel as the Latine Churche agnised the Popes Supremacie I denie not but that a fewe Heretiques or Schismatiques perhappes might disobeie him at certaine time and in certaine places But what then So doo rebelles oftetimes disobeye their Princes His authoritie notwithstanding tooke place through the whole Churche emong obedient Christians Iewel Pag. 104. But God be thanked it appeareth already to al them that haue eyes to see that vve haue not departed from the seruile obedience of that See But vpon iust cause and good aâ—ise Harding The 21. Chapt. Yea God wote vpon as iuste causes as they of Germanie rebelled against Charles the fift that noble Prince theire lawful Emperour or if ye list vpon as iust causes as they of Geneua departed from the Duke of Sauoie their lawful Prince or if ye wil wade farther vpon as iust causes as the Huguenotes of Fraunce haue to remoue their lawful king from the godly and accustomed gouernment of his realme by open rebellion now the second time What you accompte seruile obedience Seruile obedience I know not but of this I am wel assured that such gouernment as ye and they of your spirite vse in some places when the worlde serueth your turne for the establishing of your Gospel to worke your policies maie wel be called a yoke made of harde yron whereas the Popes yoke if it must needes be called a yoke Yoke of iron yoke oâ— wood bicause ye speake of seruile obedience is but of softe wood that is to saie light and easie As al theeues would gladly departe from the obedience of their lawful Iudge and cal it Seruile if that might be allowed euen so al suche aduersaries of the Catholique Churche can thinke euery smal cause yea being no iust cause at al sufficient to departe from the obedience of the Pope the chiefe Pastour whose office is to condemne al their Heresies as al your Heresies at this daie are condemned in the Councel of Trent by the Popes authoritie Touching the argument you make à contrario sensu Pag. 104. out of the wordes of Calixtus Epistle in Gratian if you had foreseene the folie of it I dare saie Distinct 12. Non decet M Iewelâ— ArgumeÌ„â— you would neuer haue printed it for very shame The argument is this What so euer is done without discretion of Iustice against the order of the Churche of Rome it maie not by any meanes be allowed Ergo what soeuer is done by discretion of Iustice notwithstanding it be againâ—â— the Order of the Churche of Rome yet ought it to be wel allowed First your duetie had benne to haue laied the causes of your departure from the Churche of Rome before some lawful Iudge and haue proued the causes so alleged both true and iuste and not to make your selues iudges both of the sufficiencie of the causes and of your departure Nexte your duetie had benne to haue weighed wel this Argument whether it receiueth any deceitful sophistication The folie of M. Ievvelles argument shevved by the like either in it selfe or in his like Is this argument trowe ye good M. Iewel What so euer thing is donne without discretion of Iustice against the order of Goddes lawe it maie not by any meanes be allowed Ergo what so euer is donne by discretion of Iustice notwithstanding it be against the Order of Goddes lawe yet ought it to be wel allowed And yet is this argument in al pointes like yours Suche Diuinitie suche Logique Wel maie this Logique be allowed in your new schoole at Geneua in any learned Vniuersitie of Christendome certainely it wil not be allowed Looke what faulte ye can finde in the later Argument the same maie ye finde in your owne This later maie be a glasse vnto you to beholde your folio in the first The Glose expressely founde contrarie to M. Iew. Verely where you founde these wordes in Gratian euen there in your owne Glose vpon GratiaÌ„ you found your Argument disproued with these very wordes Hic vacat argumentum à contrario sensu Here the argument deduced of the contrarie sense is voide and holdeth not This you saw or your gatherer for you Yet you would it should out be it taken wel or otherwise Thus you delight to be striking though we can soone heale your woundes For so you thinke to persuade the simple that ye haue muche matter against vs. The places of S. Augustine and of Pius that you allege Pag. 104. make nothing against the Pope therefore I marueile why you allege them seruing you to so litle purpose Perhaps this may be your manner of reasoning S. Augustine would not haue vs to geue ouer to any Bishops be they neuer so Catholique if they happely be deceiued and be of a contrarie iudgement to Scripture Ergo
Gentilium fieri solet appellationem interposuerunt Oh see the desperate boldenesse of rage and furie As if it were in the suites of Heathens and Paganes so these menne haue put vp their Appeale Nowe sir if he had ben of the minde that you imagine or had thought it lawful for Constantine to heare and determine ecclesiastical causes or a right apperteining to his Emperial estate he woulde not haue tolde vs that he thought it a faulte to intermedle in suche matters and therefore asked pardone of the holy Bishoppes Neither would so wise an Emperour seing those Bishoppes appealing in that cause haue dâ—tâ—sted their doinges and cried O rabida furoris audacia oh the desperate boldnesse of rage and furie Wherefore M. Iewel neither this facte of Constantine nor that authoritie of S. Augustine can furder your pretended conuention of Bishoppes before Ciuil Magistrates Let vs see what foloweth Iewel Pag. 638. But vvhat speake vve of other Priestes and inferiour Bishoppes The Popes them selues notvvithstanding al their vniuersal povver haue submitted them selues and made their purgations before kinges and Emperours 2. q. 7. Nos si Gerson in Serm. Paschali Pope Liberius made his humble appearance before the Emperour Constantius Pope Sixtus before Valentinian Leo the thirde before Carolus Magnus Leo 4. before Levves the Emperour Iohn 22. vvas accused of heresie and forced to recant the same vnto Philippe the French king Harding The higher euery good man is the more humbly he behaueth him selfe If then the Popes hauing an vniuersal power ouer Christes Churche did submitte them selues to Princes and Emperours they shewed muche humilitie in their hartes and confidence in their causes and proue against you M. Iewel that if this submission had not ben made voluntarily by them nor King nor Caesar coulde haue had authoritie or power to haue benne iudges ouer them as you maie see by the example of that good Emperour Constantine refusing to be iudge ouer Bishoppes and saying Sozo lib. 1 cap. 17. Deus vos constituit sacerdotes potestatem vobis dedit de nobis iudicandi ideo à vobis rectè iudicamur vos autem non potestis ab hominibus iudicari God hath appointed you Priestes and geuen you power to iudge of vs and therefore we are rightly iudged of you but ye can not be iudged of menne that is of laie menne and menne as S. Ambrose reported of Theodosius whiche I declared before that are vnequal in office M. Ievvel failing of his purpose falleth from the Popes purgatioÌ„ before Emperours to their appearance before Emperours vvhiche no man denied Liberius appearing before Constantius Tâ—â—odorit Eccles Hist lib. 2 cap. 16. Pope Sixtus after vvhat forte he made his purgatioÌ„ and for vvhat cause and vnlike in authoritie and right Of suche Bishoppes maie not be iudged The Pope Liberius you saie made his humble appearance before Constantius It is true But appearance is not purgation M. Iewel You promised to tel vs of Popes that submitted them selues and made their purgations before kinges and Emperours and beginning with that good Pope you forgette your selfe and for making of a purgation you tel vs of making appearance Whereby we gather that either you passe not what you saie or remember not what ye promise Liberius dealing with Constantius the Arian Emperour at that appearance was suche as became a Bishoppe of the Apostolike See For in that cause he would neither be ouerborne by the authoritie of the Emperour nor yelde vnto his wickednesse against Athanasius for a longe time muche lesse acknowledge him for his superiour or iudge As for Pope Sixtus it is certaine that he made his purgation before the Emperour Valentinian But he did it M. Iewel in Concilio in a Councel of Bisshoppes and not in a courte of the Prince And he did it of humilitie to auoide the suspicion and malice of his aduersaries and not to geue any President to others to doo the like nor to preiudicate the authoritie of the Apostolique See These are his wordes in the place that your selfe allege Vnderstande ye 2. q. 4. MaÌ„dastis Nostra authoritate that I am falsely accused of one Bassus and vniustly persecuted Whiche the Emperour Valentinian hearing commaunded a Synode by vertue of our authoritie to be assembled When the Synode was assembled I satisfying al with great examination albeit I might otherwise haue escaped yet auoiding suspicion I made my purgation before them al discharging thereby my selfe from suspicion and from emulation and enuie Sed non alijs qui hoc noluerint aut non sponte elegerint faciendi formam dans But not geuing a president to others to doo the like that either shal not be willing or wil not voluntarily choose this kinde of purgation Lo M. Iewel your owne authour condemneth you Pope Sixtus made his purgation not onely before Valentinian but coram omnibus before al Bishoppes and others assembled in the Synode And he did it not by compulsion of any superiour Authoritie but of humilitie to declare his innocencie and not to geue any other a president to doo the like And by this ye maie perceiue that the Emperour had of him selfe nor authoritie to cal that Councel nor power to summone the Pope to his Iudgement Seate nor any iurisdiction to force him to make his Purgation before his Maiestie For al was done by the submission of the Pope He consented to the Emperours calling of that Councel he gaue him licence to heare his purgation and to be iudge in that cause And he that geueth an other authoritie and commission is by natural reason higher and of greater power in that case then he that receiueth the authoritie and commission Wherefore Pope Sixtus making his purgation before the Emperour Valentinian can not be said to haue benne conuented before a laie Magistrate as his superiour and lawful iudge Leo 3. and Leo 4. Concerning Leo the thirde and Leo the fourth their case is like When they made their Purgation the one said euen in the place that you allege hoc faciens non legem prascribo caeteris 2. q. 4. Audite 2. q. 7. Nossi doing this I doo not prescribe a lawe to force other menne to doo the like The other gaue the Emperour licence to appointe Commissioners to heare his cause and submitted him selfe to their iudgement and therefore we saie the Emperour was not their iudge nor superiour by any princely authoritie but by these Popes permission and appointement As for Pope Iohn the 22. of whose errour you make muche a doo in so many places of your bookes I haue said sufficiently before in the Answer to your View of your Vntruthes Fol. 64. sequent Where I haue declared how falsly you belie him and wherein he erred touching the state of the Soules of the iust after this life And here I saie againe that it is most false that euer he recanted any heresie before Philippe the Frenche king In deede the
authoritie to any heresie or errour I denie vtterly neither shal M. Iewel or any of his felowes what so euer be hable to proue the contrarie That any where I haue tolde them sadly and in good earnest that the bishop of Rome is a king if he meane the expresse name of a King I tel him here eftsones sadly and in good earnest and without Saulue la vostre that it is a starke lye Confut. fol. 280. a. The pope hath kingly power yet is he no king In the first place of my Confutation by him coted I say The pope hath a kingly power ouer his owne subiectes euen in temporal thinges and now I tel you here for example he hath it as Moyses had yet he taketh not vpon him to be a King nor chalengeth vnto him that title Neither doth he in his owne person bicause he acknowlegeth him selfe to be no King exercise the function and office of a King but committeth such charge vnto other Laye persons If ye enuie the Pope his kingly power and possessions whiche he holdeth by right beware you be not at length thought vnworthy and remoued from the landes of a Baron and the Earledom of S. Osmunde whiche you holde vnduely If that happen to come to passe where then shal we finde your good Lordship In the other place of the Confutation vpon occasion geuen by wordes of the Apologie I say that the Pope maie rule temporally Confut. fol. 305. b. and more there say I not touching this matter Item there Iewel That vnto him belongeth the right of bothe Svvordes as vvel Temporal as spiritual Confut. fol. 247. b. Harding What so euer I bring in my Confutation concerning both Swordes committed vnto the Successour of S. Peter it is S. Bernardes it is not myne Wheras the Apologie maker were it M. Iewel or who so euer it was by the multitude of the light scoffes it appeareth that he was the Penneman of it mary the stuffe I heare say was gathered by the whole Brotherhead whereas I say he steppeth forth very peartly and saith thus Confut. fo 247. a. I haue a special fansie to common a worde or two with the Popes good Holinesse and to say these thinges vnto his owne face Tel vs I praie you good holy Father c. Which of the Fathers euer said that bothe the Swordes were committed vnto you To this question the answere I make in the Popes behalfe is this Confut. fo 247. b. L. Si quis C. d. test Of the Popes teÌ„poral Svvorde De Considerat li. 4 Math. 26. Let S. Bernard writing to a Pope answer for the Pope He is a sufficient witnesse Where your selfe doo allege him much against the Pope you can not by the lawe iustly refuse him speaking for the Pope The spiritual sworde you denie not I trowe Of the temporal sworde belonging also to the Pope thus saith S. Bernarde to Eugenius He that denieth this sworde to be thine seemeth to me not to consider sufficiently the worde of our Lorde saying thus to Peter thy predecessour put vp thy sworde in the scaberd The very same then is also thine to be drawen forth perhappes at thy becke though not with thy hande Elles if the same belonged in no wise vnto thee where as the Apostles said Lucae 22. The Churche hath both svvordes by S. Bernard beholde there be two swordes here Our Lorde would not haue answered it is yenough but it is to muche So bothe be the Churches the spiritual sworde and the material But this to be exercised for the Churche and that of the Churche That by the hande of the Priest this of the souldier but verely at the becke of the Priest and commaundement of the Emperour Thus touching the Popes bothe swordes you are fully answered by S. Bernarde I trust you wil not be so vncourteous as to put him beside nor so parcial as to allow him when he seemeth to make some shewe for you and to refuse him when he is found plaine contrarie to your false assertions Vpon this place of S. Bernarde M. Iewel in the Defence sitting forsooth M. Iewels graue sentence pronounced against S. Bernarde Defence pag. 528. Ibidem as it were vpon the Benche like a Iudge hauing power to geue sentence either of life or of death saith ful grauely and Iudgelike and pronounceth this sentence S. Bernarde saith The Pope hath bothe swordes But S. Bernardes authoritie in this case is but simple But why I praie you Sir Iudge Marke the cause and profounde reason of this Iudge He liued saith he eleuen hundred yeeres after Christes Ascension in the time of King Henry the first the King of England in the middes of the Popes route and tyrannie And shal we for this cause shake of S. Bernarde Then why maie we not as wel sitte in Iudgement vpon M. Iewel and in like sorte but with more reason pronounce this sentence M. Iewel saith the bodie of Christe is not in the Euchariste the bodie and bloude of Christe are not to be adored in the Sacrament The Churche hath no externall Sacrifice no external Priesthod Praier made for the dead is vaine and superstitious There be not seuen Sacramentes but onely two and by the same grace is not conferred or geuen but onely signified The Pope is Antichriste and al that holde the olde Faith of the Churche who are Papistes perteine to the Kingdome of Antichriste c. But M. Iewels authoritie in these cases is but simple He liued almost sixteen hundred yeeres after Christe and is yet aliue in the time of Quene Elizabeth the Quene of England in the middes of the Caluinistes route and tyrannie The same sentence with a smal change of wordes maie with like reason be pronounced vppon Luther Zuinglius Peter Martyr Bucer Caluine Beza Baudie Bale Hooper Cranmare and the rest of that wicked route It were a thing worthy to be knowen why S. Bernarde should be condemned in respecte of his age and of the route whiche this man telleth vs the Popes then bare and these Apostates should be beleeued and honoured with al mennes assent yelded to their sayinges and teachinges their age being foure hundred yeeres later the tyranny crueltie vilanie and outrage whiche in sundry places by them of that side is vsed farre surmounting any what so euer seueritie of gouernement whiche the Popes vsed in that time their learning not equal with the learning of S. Bernarde their witte muche inferiour to his of eithers vertue and good life what shal I speake To compare theirs with his it were a kinde of blasphemie so holy a Father was he so dissolute Apostates are these Item there Iewel That all kinges and Emperours receiue their vvhole povver at his hande and ought to svveare obedience and Fealtie to the Pope For these be his vvordes euen in this bâ—rke so boldly dedicated vnto your Maiestie It is a great eye soare saith M. Harding to the ministers of Antichriste to see the
debet esse iudex in causa propria The Pope maie not be iudge in his ovvne cause Harding The Pope maie be iudge in the cause of the Churche Though Leos Authoritie be not greate in his ovvne cause The .29 Chapt. yet in the cause of the Churche being so auncient so holy so learned a Father by your owne graunt it must be very great The wordes you bring are of your owne forging Wherefore as ye haue hitherto benne a forger of Doctours Scriptures the Canon lawe and Gloses so now you are become a forger of the Ciuile lawe With what wordes the lawe is written here anonne you shal see But be it true that Vlpian said for so you should haue said The Emperour alleged for Vlpian and not the Emperour as your skil in the lawe vnskilfully telleth vs no man maie minister lawe vnto himselfe Yet neither he not the Emperour euer forbad but that a man maie truely reporte of his owne matters Now Pope Leo that holy man and great learned Clerke in the place by me alleged doth not minister lawe vnto him selfe in his owne cause but for the better gouernement of the Churche and that peace and good order maie the better be kepte in the Churche reporteth a difference or diuersitie of power to be emong Bishoppes with likenesse of Order and honour as S. Hierome in his epistle to Euagrius coÌ„fesseth them to be of one merite and of one Priestehood In declaring whereof he speaketh of the right that the Bishoppes of the See Apostolique S. Peters successours ought to haue in the gouernment of the vniuersal Church through out the whole worlde This M. Iewel was not his owne priuate cause but the cause of the whole Churche in whiche he might geue iudgement But M. Iewel guilfully seemeth to put the case as though there had ben many Catholiques that called Pope Leo to lawe for vsurping the authoritie not dewe vnto him and as thoughe he had ben defendant against them al yea as thoughe he had stepte vp into his iudgement seate and there sitting as a Iudge in his owne mater had pronunced sentence for him selfe Whiche thing he did not nor euer was there any catholique man that laid any suche kinde of vsurpation to his charge he neuer stoode as defendant nor sate as Iudge in his owne cause but discretely and truely as occasion serued signified vnto the worlde his lawful authoritie and his â—uccessours as Kinges vse to doo in their titles of honour and stiles If M. Iewel wil calle his double wiued lawier vnto him and with him peruse the lawe that beginneth Qui Iurisdictioni praeest neque sibi ius dicere debet â— Qui iu risdiccioni ff de iurisdict omn. iudic neque vxori vel liberis suis c. whiche is the true lawe that he should haue alleged and wil consider that Princes Kinges and Emperours vse to doo in their owne causes by very order of lawe and if he wil therewith searche out the right meaning of the lawe L. in priuatis ff de inoffic testamen In priuatis iudicus pater filium vel filius patrem iudicem habere potest he shal finde both that he hath fondely vainely and rashly alleged a lawe that he vnderstoode not nor made any thing to his purpose but onely to fil vp paper with wordes and also that it is one thing to saie Nemo debet sibi ius dicere as he falsely allegeth the Lawe and that it is a farre other thing to saie Qui iurisdictioni praeest neque sibi ius dicere debet neque vxori vel liberis suis neque libertis vel caeteris quos secum habet For so is the lawe vttered by Vlpianus As for your marginal note out of the Decrees you shew how barrein and poore your mater is that for defence of it you are faine to runne for helpe to notes put in the margent of the Glose a very poore shifte God wote To your marginal note I answere The Pope as there the Glosse saith if there be a mater in lawe betwen him and an other man about a temporal thing ought not him selfe to be iudge in that case and to take the thing into his owne possession before it be tried whose it is but to choose Vmpeeres to sitte vpon it Now marke what followeth good Reader 16. q. 6. Consuetudo tamen si vult esse Iudex in causa Ecclesiae potest esse yet if he list to be a iudge in a mater concerning the Churche he maie be Certainely no one thing more concerneth the wealth tranquillitie and good order of the Churche then that whiche Leo intreateth of in the epistle 84. to Anastasius the Bishop of Thessalonica whiche in my Confutation to good purpose I alleged Iewel Pag. 111. Concil Aphricanum cap. 105. Superbum seculi typhuÌ„ It is vvel knovven that the Pope hath sought for and claimed this vniuersal authoritie these many hundred yeres Pope Innocentius vvas therefore reproued of pride and vvorldely lordelinesse by the vvhole Councel of Aphrica Harding The Aphrican Councel vntruly reported by M. Iewel The 30. Chapt. The Pope hath not sought for that whiche our Lorde gaue vnto S. Peter no more then S. Peter sought for it at Christes graunt The fame he maie iustely claime for so muche as it perteineth to the feeding and gouernement of Christes flocke and to the strengthning of the faithful as being the Successour of S. Peter That you saie of Innocentius is vtterly false He was not so reproued of pride and worldely Lordelinesse as more like a proud worldely Lordeling then an humble plaine handler of Goddes Truthe you saie Neither be those wordes superbum seculi typhum which you laie forth in your Margent to be founde in any Epistle of the Aphrican Councel to Innocentius nor be they spoken or written at al against Innocentius as you beare vs in hande Neither was Innocentius then a liue when the Aphrican Councel was holden but departed this life long before I graunt there is extant an epistle of the Aphrican Councel to the learned Pope Coelestinus in whiche Epistle Innocentius that blessed man is not once touched Neither was the charitie of that whole Councel so smal as to speake so il of a holy Bishop so long before departed The manner of those Fathers was to praie for suche specially for the Bishoppes of Rome deceassed rehearsing their names in their Masses and in no wise to reporte so il of them How be it in that whole epistle Pope Innocentius is not so muche as once named nor spoken of There we finde these three wordes fumosum typhum seculi that is to saie the smoky pride of the worlde or the vaine stoutenesse of the temporaltie but in a farre other sense and to an other purpose then M. Iewel pretendeth Whether he rightly vnderstode the place or no I haue good cause to doubte It seemeth that the Bishop of Rome in the cause of Appiarius whom
The Emperour Constantinus in his letters to the people of Nicomodia Theodorit li. 1. c. 19. speaking of the vvilful errours and heresies of Priestes and Bishoppes saith thus Illorum temeraria praesumptio mea hoc est ministri Christi manu coercebitur Their rashe attemptes shal be repressed by my hande that is to saie by the hande of Christes seruant August cōtra epist Parme. li. 1. cap. 7. So likevvise S. Augustine saith to the Donatistes An fortè de religione fas non est vt dicat Imperator vel quos miserit Imperator Cur ergo ad Imperatorem legati vestri venerant Is it not lavvful that the Emperour or the Emperours deputie shoulde pronounce in a case of Religion VVherefore then vvent your ovvne Ambassadours to the Emperour Harding If you had said M. Iewel that Constantinus in his epistle to the Nicomedians had threatned to pounishe Bishoppes and Priestes that were Arians that is cursed and abominable heretiques you had in some parte said the truthe But where you saie that he spake of the wilful errours and heresies of Priestes and Bishoppes and adde not Arian Priestes and Arian Bishoppes you conceele parte of the true Storie and declare your malicious hart against Priestes and Bishoppes But to leaue that cankred spite of yours to the iudgement of God why doo ye not report the Emperours wordes as they are in your authour Theodoritus M. Ievvels corruptiō Wil you neuer leaue this your accustomed vile corruption Theodoritus saith not as you reporte but thus Theodorit lib. 1. cap. 19. Quòd si quis audacter inconsultéque ad memoriam laudē pestium illarū exarserit illius statim audacia ministri Dei hoc est mea executione coercebitur If any man be inflamed boldely and incircumspectly at the remembrance and cōmendation of those wicked and pestilent heretiques his boldenes shal be repressed straightwaie by execution done by me that am the minister of God And these threatning wordes of the Emperour are to be referred to the people of Nicodemia for to them the epistle was directed And hauing tēporal iurisdiction as power of life and death ouer them he put that terrour into their hartes that they should be neither in loue nor in admiration of those accursed Bishoppes whom he had bannished for the Arian heresie Or if M. Iewel wil haue those wordes of the Emperour to be referred as wel to the Bishoppes and Priestes as to the laie people Let him vnderstand that as it is lawful for any Prince to pounish heretiques that are excommunicate by the Churche and deliuered to the secular power be they Bishoppes or priestes So it was lawful for Constantine to pounishe these wicked Arian Bishoppes excommunicated and accused by the. 318. Bishoppes in the Councel of Nice And as the prince that now as an executour of Iustice pounisheth heretikes by death is not for that cōsideration neither iudge in causes of heresie nor supreme gouernour of the Churche So Constantine at that time had no iurisdiction ouer Bishoppes in ecclesiastical causes albeit he bannished them and threatned them other pounishmēt if they fel in loue of those cursed Arians For the princes threatning of pounishment for heresie is no argument to build a superioritie in ecclesiastical causes As for the place whiche you bring out of S. Augustine you brought it before in your Replie to proue that Emperours might receiue Appeales in ecclesiastical causes Art 4. fol. 104. 105 106. And a sufficient answere was made vnto it in the Returne of Vntruthes vpon you Why conceele you that If you had ben studious of the truthe for Goddes sake you should haue yelded vnto it or if you had iudged it false haue confuted it and not let it passe in silence and now trouble the Reader with the same stuffe againe But peraduenture you wil saie that you neuer sawe that booke and therefore that you dissemble not the answer If it were credible that you would not see a booke written directely against you and one that toucheth you so neare this excuse were tolerable But seing it hath no colour of truthe there can be litle pretended to saue you from the gilte of dissimulation and hypocrisie in this case I answere you therefore as he did S. Augustine spake in that place against the stubborne Donatistes of whom Parmenianus was one whiche complained that the Emperour Constantine eos ad campum id est ad supplicium duci iussit commaunded them to be brought foorth into the fielde that is to pounishement And in reasoning against him he tooke aduantage of his owne doinges not as allowing the Appeale to the Emperour but as prouing him vnreasonable who for aduantage would appeale to the Emperour and when the Emperour had pronounced sentence against him would striue and repine at the sentence and saie that he being a temporal prince ought not to pounishe Bishoppes Like as if you M. Iewel hauing made the Queene supreme gouernour of your Churche should saie in case you were condemned of heresie or of Simonie by the Prince Her grace ought not to condemne me in these cases a Catholique that flattereth her not with that title would reason against you and saie No sir Is it not laweful for the Queene to condemne you in a case of heresie and Simonie Why then made you the Queene supreme gouernour of your Churche Euen so did S. Augustine reason against the Donatistes And bicause by their appeale to his Maiestie they had chosen him iudge in their cause and after said he could not condemne them S. Augustine vsed their owne weapon against them to cōuince their folie and said as you saie Is it not lawful that the Emperour or the Emperours deputie should pronounce in a case of Religion Wherefore then went your owne Ambassadours to the Emperour c. But as the Catholique reasoning in suche wise against you can not be said by that to allowe the Queenes supremacie So S. Augustine in this talke against the Donatistes can not be said to allowe the Emperours authoritie in condemning of Bishoppes and other ecclesiastical causes For he answering an other Donatiste that said Augustinus epist 162. Non debuit episcopus proconsulari iudicio purgari a Bishop ought not to make his purgation before a temporal magistrate said If he be worthy to be blamed whom the temporal iudge hath absolued whereas he him selfe did not require it how much more are they to be blamed whiche would haue a temporal prince to be iudge in their cause By this it appeareth that he thought that Princes could not be iudges ouer Bishoppes Ibidem Moreouer he reporteth that Constantine who appointed iudges to heare their cause did it à sanctis Antistitibus veniam petiturus as minding to aske pardon of the holy Bishoppes for his facte And the same Emperour seing their importunitie in repairing to him as iudge said Optatus li. 1. cōtra Parmen O rabida furoris audacia Sicut in causis
great learning vertue and grauitie that al that I haue sent ouer are but toyes and trifles by like bicause I printe not my Bookes in Folio as he dooth that shee is ful of wisedome and I ful of follie There he promiseth in great sooth that he wil not tel me how lewdly I haue demeaned my selfe towardes her And what is that Nay he wil not tel it me ye may beleue him bicause it wil sound to my great shame Yet out it must the man is taken with suche a lust And bicause he was lothe it should come to the knowlege of many thus forthwith he telleth it me in a printed booke I beseeche you saith he ful courteouslie cal your wordes againe to minde if you can without blusshing Handle foisted in by M Ievvel for Blame So roughlie to handle so softe a Creature where he hath changed my honest worde Blame into his owne worde Handle of filthie imagination This Phrase of speache your very frends haue muche misliked and as it is in dede so in plaine wordes they cal it Ruffianrie c. The whole matter thus he concludeth with like truth as he beganne But this fault as I haue said I wil dissemble To al this what shal I saie good Reader God be thanked that M. Iewel who is so desirous to tel that of me whereof I should be ashamed hath nothing to tel but a Lie forged by his owne filthie imagination whereof he must needes be ashamed if he haue any sparke of honest nature in him So roughlie to handle so softe a creature be not my woordes If it be Ruffianrie so to speake as he saieth that in deede it is then is this Superintendent of Sarisburie become a Ruffian For he speaketh so I spake it not Thus roughly to blame so soft◠a creature whether it might not in that place be honestly spoken I reporte me to al that be honest Bicause he knew him selfe he had made this apparent aduantage against me by his false forgerie foisting in the worde Handle in place of the word Blame of purpose that his impudent falshed might not be espied he least out of his Booke xxvij lines of my Confutation where the wordes be with which I reproue the Lady for her false Translation if it were hers and not an others set forth in her name But my very frendes haue muche misliked this Phrase of speache saith M. Iewel I maruell how they could mislike it before it was euer written In deede bothe my frendes and his frendes too mislike this Phrase as he hath forged it very much I doubte not And as for his frendes I dare saie they are ashamed of him and wish he had not discredited his ministerly Diuinitie with suche Ruffianly humanitie or rather inhumanitie For a ful answer hereto see in this Treatie Lib. 3. cap. 2. Fol. 120. As for the Lady that translated the Apologie into English in whose quarrel this vnhonest and vncleane lewdnesse hath by this Champion ben practized I wish her no woorse but that shee tel M. Iewel when shee meeteth with him nexte that though shee were desirours bothe of Praise and also of reuenge yet shee had rather remaine vnpraised and vnrevenged then of suche a false handler to be praised and with such open lying to be revenged Thus Reader by Viewe of these fewe places noted out of the whole heape thou maist conceiue with what manner stuffe M. Iewel hath filled vp that huge Booke Suche as these are after the same rate the more parte of the reste is Wherefore al menne maie see how good cause they haue to hier their Promotours and Waiters to lie in waite for our Bookes at the Portes and Creekes and with great extremitie to pounish al menne who are founde to haue them For by that meane they hope to winne a long time before their guile and falshode be made open to al the worlde Seeing then among al that huge heape so litle can be founde whereby he maie seeme to go directly to the pointes that be in Controuersie and presently treated of seeing where he geueth out certaine shadowes as it were of proufes if the same be duely examined they be tried corrupted and falsified by one vntrue meane or other and seeing the confutation of al that is to be confuted must be made by repeating and laying forth againe the testimonies truly whiche he allegeth falsly by shewing where he clippeth of the Doctours wordes where he addeth wordes of his owne where he leaueth out the beginning or the ende of Sentences where he vseth false translation where he conceeleth and dissembleth the Circumstance of the places and foloweth the bare sounde of wordes without farther view of the Writers intent where he maketh false exchange of wordes as he is now taken in the manner changing Blame a worde of chaste meaning into Handle a worde of vnchaste imagination seing I saie this is the meane and waie whereby the Confutation of the pretensed Defence must be wrought I leaue vnto the iudgement of those who can iudge of these thinges what a long and tedious worke it would be and how litle profite would redounde thereof if I should refute his whole Booke This being wel considered specially whereas also a long time is required to the finishing of suche a worke great charges are to be emploied in printing and menne at these daies soone waxe wearie and feele lothsomnes in reading long Treaties I thought I should doo more cōueniently if I confuted the chiefe pointes of Doctrine then if I bestowed my labour about the confutation of the whole whiche for the most parte consisteth of light and vaine trifles not worth the reading And to saie the truthe what credite is he worthy to beare in the reste that in the chiefe pointes is proued to haue dealte so vntruly If I truly charge M. Iewel with thertie fortie fiftie yea with a hundred great and notorious Lies and sufficiently confute the same shal I not seeme to haue proued him a Lier and a false dealer in these causes excepted I confute him in a thousand eleuen or twelue hundred mo If the case be so then is the aduantage in the multitude of Lies and he is farthest from being confuted who maketh most Lies and specially he that maketh so many as the defender of the truth shal not haue leisure to trie them Lies It is wel knowen how muche easier it is to write Lies then to confute Lies A Lie is vttered in a worde or two the poison of an hainous Heresie is spet forth in a line or two Nor this nor that perhappes can wel and sufficiently be confuted so as it be made plaine vnto the vnlearned in foure or fiue leaues Least I should seeme to saie nothing in his commendation and not to acknowlege his worthiest qualities I graunt he is furnished with Rhetorie with humaine letters with Eloquence with a mearie wit and that he hath a readie grace in skoffing yea that he is hable to
greeue the harte not onely of his Aduersarie but also of any other godly man with scorneful flowtes in thinges of greatest holinesse But Christian Reader we striue not for the Garland of that game we go not about to trie maisteries of suche witte or of humaine learning Our strife is about the Truthe The waie to shewe it and proue it whiche he him selfe by open Chalenge hath offred his Doctrine to be tried by is by laying forth the plaine Scriptures the examples of the Primitiue Church the testimonies of the General Councelles and ancient Fathers Of these who hath so great stoare saith a frende of his as M. Iewel Who euer sawe the margent of any Booke so beset with cotations as his Bookes are This were a great euidence of the Truthe on his side if the matter were alwaies tried by what so euer multitude of writers sayinges But what if the number of his testimonies be quite beside the purpose Seemeth he not then very shamelesse Is he not then farre to blame so to abuse the plaine and wel meaning Readers It shal be said perhappes in his excuse He seeth the negligence of menne he coÌ„sidered that fewe or none examine our writinges And therefore he thinketh he shal seeme to saie muche though in deede nothing be said that perteineth to the pointes presently handled And where a thing is to be done and the same for want of habilitie can not be done there it seemeth good policie to geue the assaie and to make shewe as if it could be donne or were donne It is knowen how flatterers make resemblance of frendship how Hypocrites geue forthe tokens of holinesse the intended Bankroute of good truste and credite the craking Coward of stoute courage Beggers oftentimes of welth Queanes of womanly honestie and chast demeanour Right so M. Iewel feeling him selfe destitute of the Truthe and impugning the Truthe and professing to deliuer vnto the worlde a new Truthe that is to saie a heape of olde Vntruthes busily set forth of late yeres by Luther Zuinglius Caluine Beza and the reste and by Wiklefe Hus Waldenses and others their predecessours in former times laboureth with al his witte and cunning to iustifie it calling it by the name of Goddes pure worde the Gospel and the sincere Truthe that whereas he is not hable to perfourme his intent in deed yet he might seeme to make it good with wordes Touching the life of the Clergie wel maie I confesse that M. Iewel hath somewhat to saie out of certaine writers how true I knowe not whereto I shal hardly be hable to make answer in ful defence of certaine personnes But as touching the Doctrine that the Catholike Churche holdeth at this daie and hath alwaies holden I auouche boldly as by sundrie our bookes it hath now ben clearely proued and they vnderstand so much that doo thoroughly examine the reasons authorities and proufes of both partes that he is not hable to bring so muche as one sentence out of any allowed writer that may not easily be refelled And bicause he knoweth that in pointes of Doctrine the force of Truth is clearely on our side he would faine traine me from matters of Doctrine wherein he hath smal hope of victorie or of acquitting him selfe with euen hande vnto matters of life and other bye thinges whereof what so euer be beleeued therein is no great danger touching our Saluation As for example what cracke is there made in the Doctrine of the Catholique Churche if the Nominales and the Reales if the Thomistes and Scotistes dissent about pointes Logical or Metaphysical or perhappes also about the paringes of some Scholastical pointes of Diuinitie What if some light beleeuing writers haue sadly and in ernest made mention of one Ioane a woman Pope deceiued by Martinus Polonus Martinus Polonus a man of smal credite who moued with olde wiues tales first committed that fable to writing What if some later writers haue vttered their phantasies whiche they dreamed thereof vpon occasion of an olde Marble Stone hauing in it a woman with a ladde standing by her engraued What if a fewe menne that helde with certaine euil Emperours whiche could not abide to be reuoked from their vnlawful lustes by the Pope for the time being haue written and reported il of a fewe Popes What if Iohannes Casa wrote some vnchaste Italian Sonettes and Rymes in his yewth though for filthinesse not comparable to suche as be extant of Bezaes making the Apostle of the Frenche Huguenotes What if Petrus Aloisius whom Paulus Tertius the Pope loued so tenderly were a vicious man What if Iohn Diazius the Spaniard were vnnaturally murdered by Alphonsus Diazius his brother that liued at Rome What if Luther wrote against the furious vproares of the Boures in Germanie when he sawe they were sure to be ouerthrowen by the Nobilitie there whom notwithstanding he had before by Thomas Muncer his scholer stirred to take weapons against their Lordes that he might laie some good colour vpon that he had il begonne What if some haue written though not without contradiction of others that Poison was ministred in the blessed Sacrament What if a Pope shewed him selfe cruel and without pitie in suffering Frances Dandulus the Venetians Ambassadour to lie vnder his table like a dogge whiles he was at diner What if Popes haue suffered great Princes and Monarkes to kisse their feete to holde their Stiroppes to leade their horses by the Bridle Wâ—at if Gregorie the seuenth otherwise called Hildebrande whom many graue Writers reporte to haue benne a man of great vertue and an excellent good gouernour of the Church be of some Writers of that age who flattered the Emperour then being that Popes mortal enemie accompted an il man What if Pope Alexander vsed Frederike the Emperour more proudly then became a man of his calling What if Constantines Donation can not be most sufficiently proued by record of antiquitie What if certaine Emperours and other Princes for great causes haue ben remoued froÌ„ their estates by the Popes authoritie What if the Gloser vpon Gratian and certaine other Canonistes haue immoderately magnified the Pope and to extol his power haue vsed some termes vndiscretely which neuerthelesse by fauorable interpretation maie be iustified What if the Popes at certaine times either for negligence cared not or for the wrechednesse of mannes il inclination could not or for great considerations would not vtterly purge the Citie of Rome of Courtesanes and Brodel houses What if the life of many Priestes Bishoppes Cardinals yea of some Popes also hath iustly deserued to be reproued Once to conclude what if al sortes of olde Bookes being raked out of dusty corners Schoolemen Summistes Glosers vaine Chroniclers Legendes writers of Dreames and Visions and suche Riffe raffe and menne for the purpose being set a worke to peruse them in the same be founde a fewe fonde pointes of Doctrine certaine loose Conclusions many seely Tales not worth the telling and some lewd faultes of
Hornes and Trompettes should haue stooncke of your breath But it is wel that he hath a Good name and is no Pope Item there Iewel VVhereas also Pope Boniface the eight for that he could not haue the treasorie of Fraunce at his commaundement endeuoured vvith al his both ecclesiastical and vvorldely puissance to remoue Philip the Frenche king from his estate and vnder his Bulles or letters Patentes had conueighed the same solemnely vnto Albertus the king of Romaines M. Harding here telleth your Maiestie that al this vvas vvel done to the intent thereby to fray the King and to keepe him iâ—â—vvâ— and to reclaime his minde from Dissobedience Confut. fol. 1â—2 b. Harding Neither was this the cause of Pope Bonifacius his falling out with the Frenche king that you assigne nor applied he al his both Ecclesiastical and temporal power to depriue the King of his Crowne nor euer said I that al this was very wel done as you report With so many Vntruthes you abuse the pacience of her Highnesse Let my wordes be weighed as I vttered them my selfe and then may it be iudged whether I answere to the sclaunderous obiection of the Apologie reasonably or you out face the matter with lying falsly These be my wordes Confut. fol. 182. a. The causes of the strife betvvene Philippus Pulcher and Pope Bonifacius Concerning that ye say of king Philip surnamed Le Bel if we may beleeue Paulus AEmylius the best writer of the Frenche Chronicles the cause was such betwene Pope Bonifacius and that King that if he did not only excommunicate him but also offered gifte of his Kingdome to Albert the Emperour as Platina your Author herein writeth he may seeme therein to haue done not altogether so euil as ye pretende For as bothe AEmylius and Platina do witnesse the cause of their falling out was that whereas the Pope being first sued vnto by Cassanus Cassanus a Christian Prince and a great Conquerour in the East to ioyne with him for the recouerie of the holy land sent the Bishop of Apamea to the Frenche King for his necessarie aide in that so common a quarel of al Christendome he being offended either that the sute was not first made to him either for that the said Bishop had done his Ambassade with shewe of more auctoritie then the King thought it became him or vpon some other priuate grudge did not only vtterly refuse to sende any helpe toward the voyage but also contemptuously beside common order and cruelly committed the Popes legate to prison and there kept him vntil such time as through the Popes Interdict the King was compelled to set him at libertie Now of geuing awaie his kingdome this chiefe French Historiographer maketh no mention And if the Pope so did why may he not seeme to haue done it rather to feare him and to reclaime his mind from disobedience Verely Platina writing it declareth how before the Pope proceded to that extremitie the French King did what in him laye to withdrawe the people of Fraunce from the obedience of the Churche and See Apostolike Al these thinges with eueÌ„ iudgement weighed that Pope seemeth not so much worthy of the blame which by your maligne reporte ye charge him with specially the occasion being first geuen of the Kinges vnlawful demeanour But what so euer may be iudged hereof yea though the Pope therein be without al excuse what is that to you How serueth it you to any colour of excuse of your Schisme and cutting of your selues from the rest of Christendome Christes mystical bodie Thus there And whereas M. Iewel maketh so much adoo about that whiche in deed I said not but whiche he vntruly beareth the Reader in hand I say that is that yf the Pope gaue away the kingdome of France from the Prince he did it to thintent to fray him whereat he ieasteth in the Defence saying A prety deuise to fraie a king to pulle the Crowne Emperial from his head to this I answere I spake it not absolutely but asked why if the Pope so did the case being wel weighed he might not seeme rather to haue done it to fraie him and to reclaime his minde from disobedience as by the euent it was shewed that so he did For the Frenche King returning to obedience and being reconciled kepte stil the crowne notwithstanding that gifte And when so euer any Prince at other times reuoked his euil purpose and confourmed him selfe to right such giftes of titles were also eftsones by the Popes reuoked In deede certaine Popes vsed that practise as a meane only to withdrawe Princes from wicked attemptes and most coÌ„monly the same tooke good effecte I denie not but some times by such practise Princes were remoued from their estate and other enioyed their roumes but the same were such as perseuered incorrigible Item there Iewel Novv touching your Maiesties noble Progenitours the kinges of this realme vvhere as vve as our loialtie and allegiance bindeth vs iustly coÌ„plaine that Pope Alexander 3. by violence and tyrannie forced king HeÌ„rie the second to surrender his crovvne Emperial into the handes of his Legate and aftervvard for a certaine space to contente him selfe in priuate estate to the great indignatioÌ„ and griefe of his louing Subiectes And that likevvise Pope Innocentius the third sturred vp the Nobles and Commons of this realm against King Iohn and gaue the inheritance and possession of his dominions vnto Ludouicus the French king as for the misusing of your Maiesties most deere Father of most noble memorie king HeÌ„rie the eight for asmuch as the smarte thereof is in fresh remembrance I vvil say nothing to these and al other like tyrannical iniuries and iuste causes of griefe M. Harding shortely and in light manner thinketh it sufficient to ansvver thus vvhat though King Henrie the second vvere il entreated of Pope Alexander 3. vvhat though king Iohn vvere il entreated of that zelous and learned Pope Innocentius Tertius VVhat though King Henrie the eight vvere likevvise entreated of the Popes in our tiâ—es Confut. fol. 340. a. Harding Many and sundry false partes practized by M. Ievvel at once Here al thinges are laid forth with Rhetorical amplifications to the most aduantage withal many vntrue partes be practized The Popes are falsely belyed The wicked deedes of the Kinges are craftily conceeled My wordes are impudently falsified My whole purpose and meaning is misconstrued The ende for which I spake thereof drawen therevnto by special occasion ministred by the Apologie which was chiefely to be treated of is not so much as with one word touched My tale is cut of in the middes and may not be suffred to be tolde out to the end Now bicause there is no dealing with M. Iewel but the bookes whence euery thing is alleged being laid open and euery place that is handled turned vnto for there was neuer Iuggler that begyled mennes eyes more with legierdemaine then he begileth mennes mindes with his false sleightes if his
many as be so farre accursed of God as to beleeue your wicked generation that ye neither entre in thither your selues nor suffer others to entre The place where the wordes be with whiche you would incense the Queenes wrath against me hath no general threats as you saie but conteine such true matter as I am not a shamed of confute it if you can verely in your Defence ye haue not done it Ye confounde saie I the offices of the spiritual Gouernours and temporal Magistrates What Kinges Confut. fol. 298. a. and Princes maie doo what they be commaunded to doo and ought of duetie to doo in Goddes name let them doo and wel maie they so doo Who is he that gainesaith If by the pretensed example of Dauid and Salomon ye animate them to intermedle with Bishoply offices then beware they saie we that Goddes Vengeance light not vpon them for such wicked presumption whiche lighted vpon king Ozias for the like offence 2. Par. 26. I marueil you denie that the Vengeance of God lighted vpon king Ozias for the like Presumption to that whereunto by your monstrous lawe and Doctrine ye animate your Princes Whiche parte denie you That Goddes Vengeance lighted vpon him Or that the Presumption is like For proufe of the Vengeance ye haue the plaine Scripture 2. Paralip 26. whiche saith that Ozias pounished for presumption as he would haue burned incense to our Lorde at the Aulter of the sweete perfume whiche belonged to the office of the Priestes only to doo a Lepre rose in his forehead whereupon the Priestes draue him out of the Temple and he himselfe also made hast that he were gonne out 2. Par. 26 saith the texte eo quòd sensisset illicò plagam Domini for that streight waie he felte the plague of our Lorde Touching the Presumption it is like For in bothe it is an vndue geuing of aduenture to doo that thing which belongeth to Bishoply Priestly auctoritie aÌ„d power geuen vnto the Quene by the Parlament and priestly office And what is that which Bishoppes and Priestes maie doo whiche ye haue not by your Acte of Parlament geuen the Quene auctoritie to do What power or auctoritie is excepted where al thinges and causes be expressed where I saie by solemne othe taken before God and his holy Angelles ye binde men to acknowledge her for the chiefe and supreme Head for by your new worde Gouernoure ye take not awaie I trowe the meaning of your former worde Head in al thinges and causes as wel spiritual as temporal Ye know ye know M. Iewel this is a very large Commission for a woman to exercise in Christes Churche Tel vs not of your newe deuised Iniunction as for a poore shifte ye are wont to doo so thinne a cloke wil not fence you againste so greate a storme of weather Although the Queene that now is haue no great delite in the exercise of al manner suche auctoritie as ye haue put her in yet what if after her time there come in her place an other Prince King or Queene of an other manner courage and fansie whom it shal like wel sometimes for his pleasure strange deuotion ambitioÌ„ or pride to doo the office which by lawe of your Parlament is committed vnto him 2 Par. 26. as it is written of king Ozias that when he became mightie and of great power his harte was lifted vp and he would needes doo that whiche belonged onely to the Priestes office If it shal like suche a Prince be he your Soueraine Lorde or Soueraine Ladie to go into your Pulpites and there after your manner to raue and raile at the Pope at the Papistes and to tel the people a peece of your lusty Geneuian Gospel whereby they maie be stirred to allewdnesse and carnal libertie If I saie the Prince that shal succeede the Queene that now is shal take vpon him so to doo what wil ye saie in this case M. Iewel and your good Brethren Wil ye come vnto him and tel him Sir if it like your Maiestie you maie not so doo Wil ye saie that it belongeth to you and to such Ministers of the word as you are and to none elles Wil ye resiste him in that attempte and driue him out of the Churche if by that time ye shal haue any Church standing at al as the Priestes of Iewrie resisted and draue out of the Temple King Ozias If your hartes shal serue you so to doo and he replie against you saying that by graunt of your owne Parlament which is a most assured warrant ye haue geuen him the supreme power auctoritie and gouernement in al thinges and causes as wel spiritual as temporal and that therefore he wil vse and practise suche power as he maie by your owne graunte what haue ye then to saie Wil ye then face him out with your pretie litle worthe Iniunctions deuised by two or three Ministers Wil that serue the turne trow ye It wil not it wil not ye maie be assured Now let vs heare with what other matter M. Iewel chargeth me Item there Iewel Thus be saith vnto your Maiestie and vvith al his skil and cunning Confut. fol 277. Confut. fol. 328. a Confut. fol. 172. b Reioind 314. Conf. 87. a CoÌ„f. 269. b Rei 42. a. Conf. 43. a CoÌ„f. 269. a 323. b. 334. a. 338. a. 348. b. A bundel of Vntruthes laboureth to persuade your Maiesties Subiectes if any one or other happely of simplicite vvil beleeue him that the godly Lavves vvhiche your Maiestie hath geuen vs to liue vnder are 1 no Lavves that your Parlamentes are 2 no Parlamentes that your Clergie is 3 no Clergie our Sacramentes no 4 Sacramentes our Faith no 5 Faith The Church of England vvhereof your Maiestie is the most principal and Chiefe he calleth a 6 malignant Churche a nevve Church erected by the dâ—â—il a Babylonical Tovver a Heard of Antichriste a Temple of Lucifer a Synagoge and a Schole of Satan ful of Robberie Sacrilege Schisme and Heresie Harding First that I say thus vnto the Quenes Maiestie it is a grosse and a palpable lye and a lye in sight For al know that reade my Confutation that in my booke I directed not my wordes vnto the Quene but vnto M. Iewel and vnto his companions that conferred with him towardes the making of the Apologie That I saie in my Confutation The Lawes made in the Quenes time be no Lawes it is an other lye That I saie The Parlamentes be no Parlamentes it is likewise an other lye That I saie The Quenes Clergie is no Clergie although I said it not and so is it the fourth lye yet here I maie saie it is a very womanly Clergie if it be a Clergie at al. That I saie Their two Sacramentes are no Sacramentes The Faith of Heretikes not Faith but perfidie it is the fifth lye Sacramentes they maie be though Schismatical Heretical corrupte and polluted Sacramentes The manner
Ye are like to whitted Sepulchres Matth. 23. Liers euil beastes slow bellies Tit. 1. God shal strike thee thou painted wal said S. Paule to Ananias Act. 23. O ye foolishe Galathians Galat. 3. False Apostles guileful workers 2. Cor. 11. The enemies of the Crosse of Christe whose bellye is their God Philip. 3. O ye stifnecked and vncircumcised in hartes and eares ye haue euer resisted the holy Ghost said S. Steuen vnto the Iewes Act. 7. As Iannes and Iambres withstode Moyses so these withstand the truth 2. Tim. 3. Hye minded proude blasphemous Ibidem Their worde creapeth forth like a canker 2. Tim. 2. Their tong is ful of deadly poison Iacob 3. These Dreamers defile the flesh despise rulers and speake euil of them that are in auctoritie Iudae As beastes whiche are without reason Woe be vnto them For they haue folowed the way of Cain and are vtterly geuen to the errour of Balaam for lucres sake and perish in the treason of Chore. Ibidem Why tempte ye me ye Ypocrites said Christe Matth. 22 Wo be vnto you Scribes and Pharisees Ypocrites Mat. 23 Wo be vnto you blinde guides Ibid. O ye fooles and blinde Ibid. Ypocrite first caste out the beame out of thine owne eye and then c. Matth. 7. It were not harde Christian Reader here to lay forth a greater heape of wordes gathered out of the Scriptures which M. Iewel reproueth in me as vncourteous and vnciuile and proceding altogether of choler But these few may suffice for shewe that if we consider wordes only and not the Circumstance of the sentence and the iuste cause why they were with such vehemencie vttered the holy Ghoste may seme also chargeable of vncourteous and vnciuile speache by whose prompting the Scriptures of God haue ben written If the matter of M. Iewels greuous accusation depende of wordes considered in them selfe onely the Scriptures haue wordes that being put a parte sownde more roughly then any yet by the written or by him noted And so farre is that pretensed fault in both Testamentes nolesse then in my bookes But if al be to be weighed by the sentences wherein suche woordes be placed and by the deserte of them in whose reproufe they be vttered as reason is it should then I appeale to al men of iudgement the dew circumstances and causes wel considered whether I haue at any time passed the bowndes of a zealous defender of the Catholique Religion whereof I make profession That the vse of sharpe speache is conuenient according to the desert of M. Iewel and of his felowes LEt the rehersal of my whole sentences with their circumstance in whiche the wordes be founde that doo so much offend be differred vntil anonne And here to turne thy tale vnto you M. Iewel and vnto your felowes lette it be lawful for me to come vnto the causes by whiche I was iustly moued so to write and to the very thinges them selfe for which ye deserue so to be written of The oddes betwixte M. Ievvel and them of his side and vs. and with such courtesie of wordes to be greeted Who be you M. Iewel and who be they of your side Who am I or rather who are we For of my selfe I am content no accompte be made but only as I apply myne endeuour to defende the Churche and the Catholique Faith by you impugned As for vs say the worst ye can of vs we are Catholiques By your owne confession your doctrine hath not benne in al Churches at al times taught and therefore ye haue tolde vs we knowe not what of your Church that it is inuisible secret vnknowen and lurketh in corners no man can tel where and therefore ye are not Catholique We remaine in that we haue receiued ye are departed from that ye receiued The doctrine for whiche ye make suche sturre is it not openly knowen to al from what men ye had it and how late ye learned it Where was this fifth Gospel so muche as whispered in any knowen corner of the worlde before that lewd Augustine Frier Martin Luther brake his vowe ranne out of his Cloister and yoked him selfe to his wanton Nonne Where was your Sacramentarie doctrine preached before Frier Huskin that new named him selfe Oecolampadius likewise brake his solemne promise to God forsooke his Religion and coupled him selfe to a young yoke fellowe Before their time who heard the sownde of your Gospel Where had ye any Dioces any Bishoppe any Church any Priest any Chappel any so much as a Parrish Clerke in the whole worlde Tel vs not as ye are woont of Wiklef Huss Ierome of Prague Berengarius Bertram and a few other which were but byles and botches in the Churche and be in no wise worthy the name of Churche Forgete not what you say in your Apologie that Luther and Zuinglius came first to the Gospel Remember ye cal that time the first appearing the spring and the first grasse as it were of your Gospel If it be so how be ye Catholique or how be ye of the Catholique Churche which is so called in respecte of the vniuersalitie of times Vincētius Lirinen places and personnes As for vs on the otherside we are hable to shew you the continuance of our faith and Doctrine by orderly successions of Bishops going vpward euen from those learned and holy Fathers whom for none other cause but only for the Catholique Faith of Christes Churche most vniustly ye kepe in Prison to S. Gregorie who sent godly Preachers to conuert the English people of our countrie vnto the Faith of Christe and from S. Gregorie further vpward vnto S. Peter and S. Paule that preached the Faith in Rome and consequently vnto Christe him selfe If we would speake vnto you in the person of the Catholique Church whereof we are a parte we might say vnto you those wordes of Tertullian spoken to Heretiques Mea est possessio olim possideo prior possideo Tertul. li. Praescript aduersus haereticos habeo origines firmas ab ipsis authoribus quorum fuit res Ego sum haeres Apostolorum The Scripture and the right sense of the Scripture is my possession I am in possession of olde I claime possession by former right The Churche continueth to the worldes ende vvithout al intermission Matt. 28 Iohan. 14 I haue the assured originals from the first authours by whom it was set forth It is I that am the Apostles heire The Churche M. Iewel as ye ought to knowe continueth from Christes Ascension vnto the ende of the worlde without intermission and without exception of any age or yeres Wil ye haue vs proue it What can we say if ye wil not beleeue Christe nor God him selfe I wil be with you saith Christe al daies vnto the ende of the worlde Againe I wil beseche my Father and he shal geue you an other conforter to remaine with you for euer the Spirite of truthe whiche the worlde can not receiue God saith to Christe in
the Doctrine touching Hel betwene Iacobus Smidelinus and Nicolaus Gallus on the one parte teaching that Christe suffered also in Hel and felt the torment of that euerlasting Fyre and the Preachers of the Sea townes of Saxonie on the other parte who tel their people there is no Hel at al The like strife is about the Doctrine of Freewil some holding with Luther some with Caluine They be diuided likewise in their determinations touching Iustification some imputing it to Faith onely as Matthias Flacius Illyricus some partly to Faith partly to Charitie as Philip Melanchthon and Georgius Maior Of Penaunce some make three partes some make but two About the number of the holy Sacramentes their discord is more notorious The Gouernours of the congregation of Geneua from whence our new Churche of England hath fetched their light admit two So doth Illyricus and many Preachers of Saxonie that dawnce after his Pype The Doctours of Lipsia wil haue three not one more nor one lesse Melanchthon at Wittenberg and they of his bande wil needes haue foure at the least Others some there be that content them selues with one Al the reste they refuse And now of late yeres as this Gospel is a Proceeding Gospel and remaineth not long in one sorte of Doctrine there be vnder the kingdome of Pole that haue abandoned the necessitie of al the Sacramentes of the newe Testament and require the Iewishe Circumcision to be restored It is muttered also that in some places where this Ghospel is hotest that the Paschal Lambe is called for O merciful God whyther wil this Gospel proceede at length But what neede I to speake of the strifes and debates that were and be in our time betwixt the chiefe Maisters of this new Religion They were at debate not onely side against side men against men Preachers of one Churche against Preachers of an other Churche but also many of them and that of the most famous were at debate with them selues Bucer with Bucer Bucer Melanchthon with Melanchthon Luther with Luther Caluine with Caluine Peter Martyr with Peter Martyr What a doo had Bucer to keepe him selfe in credite with any side who after he ranne out of his Cloister and tooke vnto him a Yokefellowe firste became a Lutheran after that a Zuinglian and againe a Lutheran and last of al after he came into England as it is wel knowen nor perfite Lutheran nor perfite Zuinglian but an vncertaine and ambiguous Mongrel betwen bothe Melanchthon Melanchthon as the worlde hath seene and as it may be proued by sundry his editions of his Common places and other writinges was so mutable in his Faith that he semeth to haue made him selfe a slaue subiecte to al occasions of mutations As he was neuer stable in his life time so a litle before his death he turned wholly from his olde Maister Luther and became a Caluinian Sacramentarie as his Epistle witnesseth written to the Palsgraue of Rhene and so died in the woorst change of al. To declare how Luther Luther disagreed with him selfe bothe in deedes and writinges it would require a whole booke The same hath ben at large set forth by Cochleus and other learned men of our time What be the contradictions wherein Caluine Caluine fighteth with him selfe and other his infinite errours and confusions Nicolaus Villagagno that learned man and valiant knight of S. Iohns Order hath diligently discoouered Peter Martyr in Strasburg a LutheraÌ„ in England a zuingliaÌ„ As for Peter Martyr I reporte me to the whole Vniuersitie of Oxforde that heard his lessons whether at his first comming thither he were not a Lutheran touching the matter of the blessed Sacrament and after he had ben sent for to come to London and had ben schooled in the courte in king Edwardes time became a Zuinglian Who so euer wil stand in his defence this that I shal here say can not be denied At Strasburg from whence he came into England he professed the Faith of the Lutherans for otherwise he shoulde not haue receiued stipende for his Lecture of the Magistrates there But at Oxforde he changed his Faith of Strasburg for the Faith of king Edwardes Courte For which cause he was not receiued againe at Strasburg at his returne out of England in Quene Maries reigne and therefore he tooke such coÌ„dicion as he could gete at Zurich in Suitzerland So Peter Martyr of Strasburg agreed not with Peter Martyr of Oxford as the world knoweth and his bookes doo witnesse And it may be doubted whether Peter Martyr of Oxford agreed with Peter Martyr of Zurich What confusion is this To dwel no longer in this lothsom matter what Babylonical confusion is in the chiefe Doctours of this new founde Gospel if there were nothing els to be said it might appeare by that we find that Gaspar Querchamer Gaspar Querchamer a learned laye man hath gathered together six and thirty places repugnant the one to the other vpon the one only Article of CoÌ„munion vnder one or both Kindes and by that Osiander writeth of Melanchthon and his folowers that they helde .xx. Opinions 21. OpinioÌ„s touching the Article of Iustification diuers and disagreing the one from the other touching the Article of Iustification Whereunto he addeth his owne different from th' other and also from the truth and so maketh vp the number of xxj dissonant Opinions Al this being weighed and considered I trust it shal not be taken for any hainous crime of my parte that I called that Synagog where such men be the chiefe Apostles and Prophetes a Babylonical Tower Yea now if ye list M. Iewel to aggrauate that greuous faulte of myne I say againe that it is woorse then the Babylonical Tower howe muche woorse it is confusion of Doctrines to be â—ounde in them that haue charge of Soules then confusion of tonges in them that builde vp stone walles Whether the chiefe Deuisers of this new Gospel might not iustly be called Loose Apostates You haue put in your heape of bitter wordes pretended to be gathered out of my bookes this saying as by me spoken to your companions Ye are Loose Apostates Which saying in very deede in suche forme of wordes is not myne For trial whereof the Reader may repaire to the place directed by your cotation The place is in my Confutation of your Apologie fol. 323. a. By the note of this saying you thought to discredite me for that is the thing you seeke most chiefly being otherwise vnhable to answere to the pointes of doctrine What thereby you haue obteined among your dere brethren the married Moonkes and Friers I knowe not ne recke not verely for the same I am neuer a white a shamed to shew my selfe before good men Loose Apostates But with which of these two bitter woordes are you greeued M. Iewel With Loose or with Apostates Amend ye the one and I promise you to reuoke the other VVho is an Apostata Bicause euery
you are to defend it what wise man seeth not Yet bicause you thinke your selfe shamed for euer excepte you stand to it stoutely ye proceede without regard of truth or modestie And nowe seing your selfe brought to this distresse that you must either yeelde with some shame or prosecute your Chalenge with more shame ye choose rather to seeme impudent in lying and to passe al measure in craking then any thing ouerseene in that you first tooke in hande And albeit bothe I and others haue made most euident proufe hereof and the thing it selfe speaketh so muche yea and your owne very frendes see it and be right sorfor it yet forsooth to cal M. Iewel a lyer a sclaunderer a craking Chalenger by verdite of M. Iewel him selfe it was vnmannerly and vnciuilly done But sir sith you require me to be so courteous in my writinges against you why did not you your selfe in yours against me vse more courtesie Is that commendable in you whiche is reproueable in me Or els what haue you a special dispensation to say what you liste and to require al others to adore you and say Aue Rabbi Shal it be lawful for you to crie out vpon vs tolle tolle crucifige and must we sing vnto you Sanctus Sanctus Sanctus Whiles ye barke and bite must we caste a disshe of fragmentes vnto you Whiles ye play the Beare with vs must we throw honny vnto you Whiles ye play the parte of Satan must we light a candle before you S. Paule the chosen vessel of Christe teaching Titus Tit. 1. how to demeane himselfe towardes such as you are said Increpa illos durè rebuke them sharpely But what soeuer you say or doo must we needes sothe you and smooth◠you Muste we stroke you and cooxe you as men doo curst boyes after they haue done shrewd turnes If you passe al men that euer wrote in number of lyes in vanitie of boasting in the common custom of scoffing as now it hath benne prooued against you shal we feare that we seeme not to lacke the ciuilitie you speake of to cal you a lyer a boaster a scoffer What is the matter that doing so il you require to be spoken of so wel By this or no vvaie els like it is we should please M. Ievvel PErhaps whereas the Rentes of the Bishoprike of Sarisburie cause men al to belorde you your eares being of long tyme accustomed to suche honorable greetinges you looke to be honoured at our handes as you are of your poore hungry Craftesmen that hauing learned to reade Englishe pretily sue vnto you for Ministerships And then whereas you lye impudently folowing them we muste saie were it not that your good Lordship saith so verely we should haue thought otherwise And whereas you falsifie your testimonies we must put the fault in your Spectacles When you hew and mangle the Doctours so fowly that al the worlde may see it we must beare you in hande that when your Lordship wrote so the booke was not at hande When you serue vs with a point of Scurrilitie we muste saye O howe it becommeth your L. to be meary When you shoote at randon diuerting altogether from the special point that is to be answered vnto impertinent matter we must say your L. shooteth faire though somewhat wide of the marke When by no witte nor cunning you are hable to make good your Chalenge yet then we must say that your L. lacketh no woordes and hath geuen a good Push towardes it To be shorte for these be the special pointes for whiche you accuse my vtterance of vncourtesie when you speake big and Goliathlike vpbraid al the hoste of God to witte the whole Catholique Churche of these laste thousand yeres what must we doo but to shew token of feare 1. Reg. 17. as the Israelites vnder king Saul did and geue backe that you may boast and crake alone Truly touching your dignitie what accompte so euer you make of your selfe I take you but for M. Iewel Bacheler of Diuinitie sometime person of Sunningwel betwen Oxford and Abington And that is the greatest degree that euer I knewe you called vnto If the Quenes Highnes of her special fauour towardes you haue geuen you the rentes of the Bishoprike of Sarisburie you are the more bounde to thanke her and to consider what accompte you haue to make of it It is not money that can set you one steppe higher in ecclesiastical degree A Bishop you are not I am right sure neither can al the Kinges and Quenes of the worlde nor al the Parlamentes of England by any their owne onely power and auctoritie make you a lawful and a true Bishop The same I tolde you in my Confutation of your Apologie whiche point you haue not sufficiently answered as it shal appeare Yet was it very behoofful for you to haue fully answered But I beare with you as therein not lacking good wil but habilitie Study for it so long as you wil you shal neuer be hable to make it good that you are yet a right Bishop Therefore in this respecte you ought to beare with my bolde vtterance the more taking you for no greater man in right then you were when you subscribed in Oxford to the Real Presence to the Sacrifice of the Masse and to those other pointes that now you impugne so busily In very deede this muche I confesse that in case you were a Bishop though an vnworthy Bishop yea a wicked Bishop yet for the dignitie of that Vocation and for the Orders sake I should and would reuerence you accordingly Act. 23. Whereas it was tolde S. Paule after he had reuiled Ananias that he was the high Bishop he reuoked his worde and submitted him selfe to that was written Thou shalt not curse the gouernour of thy people Exod. 22. Whereby he doth vs to vnderstande that had he knowen he had benne no Bishop at al he woulde not haue reuoked his worde that in your opinion is vnciuile and vncourteous but haue let it stand in force You being as il a man as euer Ananias was and hauing done muche more spite vnto the Churche of Christe and more dishonour vnto God then euer he did beare with me for speaking truly and ernestly without flatterie Act. 23. The example of S. Paule saying to Ananias Thou painted wal not knowing him to be the high Bishop and yet occupying a more honorable roome then you are yet called vnto leadeth me not greatly to repent of any of those wordes spoken of you or of your felowes the Sacramentaries and Protestantes of our time whiche to impaire my credite you haue culled out of my Bookes and laid together in one heape And what so euer I haue written or said that toucheth your person specially and irketh you I take God to record therein I respected not M. Iewel the priuate man but M. Iewel the publique enemie of Christes Churche the professed Impugner of the Truth and Catholique Religion
the despiser and prophaner of the holy Sacramentes the breaker of vnitie the enemie of God And for my warrant in so doing I haue the examples whiche here I laid forth before of the Prophetes of the Apostles specially of S. Paule S. Iude and S. Peter of S. Iohn the Baptiste of our Sauiour Christe him selfe Yea I say furthermore what is that sharpenes of wordes whiche in this case I meane when the auctoritie of the Councels and holy Fathers is so lightly contemned when Gods holy Mysteries are so turkishly prophaned when the Churche is so falsly sclaundered when vnitie is so with most certaine danger of Christian soules broken when the whole state of the Catholique Religion is so wickedly ouerthrowen briefly when God him selfe is so horribly blasphemed In this case I say what sharpenes of wordes is there which iuste griefe of a Christian harte and godly zeale causeth not to seeme not onely excusable but also laudable yea necessary yea with praise and reward to be honoured If when the Children of Israel defyled them selues in Fornication with the wemen of Moab God in anger said to Moyses take al the chiefe of the people Num. 25. and hang them vp in Gibettes against the Sunne that my wrath may be turned from Israel where there is so muche bothe bodily and spiritual fornication yea sacrilegious Incest not only coÌ„mitted but permitted but taught but couÌ„seled and exhorted and for some parte commaunded against the honour and wil of God our Moyseses and Aarons the true Gouernours withholden from executing their dewtie shal it not become vs whose hartes God toucheth at least with wordes to shewe the griefe of our mindes and with conuenient sharpenes of speache to rebuke the heinous wickednes that is committed and so for so muche as in vs lyeth to reuoke Gods people from it If Phinees being nor high Priest nor magistrate but only as yet a priuate man Ibidem was highly praised and rewarded of God for his zeale in killing one of the Israelites for whooredom committed with an harlot of Madian to stay Gods wrath shal we seme to deserue blame for vttering onely wordes in reproufe of so farre more heinous crimes if not to stay God from his iuste wrath nor the offenders from their wickednes yet the people of God from the like example What you are very nice M Iewel that finde so great faulte with me onely for certaine sharpe wordes bestowed in reprehension of your and your companions so diuers and so greeuous enormities You are not taken vp for halting as they say pardy Halting may haue some excuse of humaine infirmitie This that is reprehended in you is not only halting it is falling downe right Neither are you so muche to be rebuked for your owne wilful falling downe but muche more for that you studie and labour al that you can to pul al others downe into the pitte that your selfe are fallen into Now in this case the pitte being so dangerous is it not wel and dewtifully done to geue warning to Gods people to beware of it Al that I writte is for the peoples sake For with you and such as you are I haue litle hope to doo any good Suche ones the Apostle aduertiseth vs Tit. 1. not to deale withal Now how shal the people be dewly warned to beware whose senses be more liuely in worldly then in spiritual thinges excepte the dulnes of their minde be stirred vp with the feare of great peril And how can the greatnes of this peril be signified vnto them but with wordes of some vehemencie As for example If I should say to one that goeth forth by night sir the way you shal passe through is vneeuen by reason of litle holes and furrowes And you take not heede you may happen to stumble or perhappes to wrentche your foote Vpon this warning wil he be so careful how to go as if I say thus If you loue your life beware how you go that way for there be great pittes and dungeons that you shal hardly escape and if you fal you are sure to breake your necke The case is like in this behalfe M. Iewel The people be alwaies going foreward and for lacke of knowledge they passe forth as it were by night Now so farre as we are persuaded the way they go in at this day in England to be perilous as that whiche through Schismes and Heresies and other manifold wickednes thereof ensewing leadeth them to euerlasting damnation should we not deceiue them if we tolde them that Dungeons were but furrowes that deepe pittes were but stumbling holes and that there were no great Danger in the way For this cause therefore M. Iewel that the people of God might be the more a fraid to heare you and beleeue you and to folow your damnable waies I thought it good and expedient in writing against you and against the heresies of our time to vse shâ—rpâ—r wordes and speache of more vehemencie then otherwise I would haue done if I had written to you priuatly or so as knowing that my bookes should haue come to no mannes handes but to yours I knew you would wince and kicke at it But spare not litle care I therefore so that by my labour profite redounde to Christian People For what cause in writing my Confutation of the Apologie I vsed suche verdure of stile as might seme not ouer flatte but tempred with conuenient sharpenesse BEfore I began to set my penne to the paper I considered wel with my selfe what it was to stirre vp such Hurnettes and to prouoke such Waspes to anger Touched I them once were it neuer so gentilly I knew they would straight way flee at my face and buzze about me and that possibly I should not saue my selfe from their stinging Yet hauing a good harte and being right willing for the Truthes sake and for the Defence of Christes Churche to sustaine that Smarte what so euer it should be I tooke aduise with my selfe how to tempre my stile so as bothe Gods cause might seeme sufficiently defended and they not iustly offended Three vvaies of vvriting against an Aduersarie Whereas then there be three wayes of writing against such Aduersaries of the Churche vsed diuersly of the Fathers vpon diuers occasions of time place person and matter of which the one is colde softe meeke lowly and demure an other hote rough sterne and vehement the third tempred with a conuenient mediocritie betwen both though at the firste in my Answer to the Chalenge I inclined more vnto the softe and gentle waye afterward in my Confutation of the Apologie and in my Reioindre I chose the meane that by the one extreme I might not seeme to worke vpon choler and to seeke reuenge rather then Defence of Gods cause by the other to be too abiecte and to shew lesse confidence in our cause to thincouragement of such cockish Aduersaries Now commeth me M. Iewel and medling litle with the matter it selfe and
benne commended most for the spirite of meekenes the same thowgh toward other offenders haue shewed them selues like milde Moyses yet hauing to do with Heretikes commonly haue demeaned them selues like earnest Elias If lyers should be entreated in like sorte as true reporters slaunderers and backebyters as faithful frendes heretikes as catholikes Apostates as stedfast Christians blasphemers as saintes truth should be iniured wickednes flattered vertue misprised Of whom the truth was impugned or resisted with malice them litle spared either the Prophetes or the Apostles or Christ him selfe Thus may al this matter for which M. Iewel hath made so much adoo seme to haue benne sufficiently answered before Neither with more truth hath he alleaged that other saying of myne which standing by it selfe alone as he hath placed it in his booke immediatly after the former falsified saying geueth out a colourable shew as if I condemned my selfe Thus he layeth it forth Ievvel Againe in the same Confutation There is no man of vvisedom or honestie that vvould vvith so immoderate vpbraidinges impaire the estimation of his modestie fol. 300. b. Harding But in that saying M. Iewel I rebuke the impudent lyes and slaunders of him that wrote the Apologie who there raileth immoderatly at the Bishops whom the holy Ghost Actâ— 20. as S. Paule saith hath ordeined to gouerne the Church of God saying that neither they knowe nor wil knowe the thinges perteining to their charge nor set a iote by any point of Religion saue that which concernes their belly and riot And there further vncharitably he burdeneth them as if they were so wicked as to commaund Christian Princes to destroy al Religion and to crucifie againe Christe him selfe In my answer to this among other wordes thus I say Confut. 300. b. Put the wordes of this railing Defenders amplification aside and the whole sentence that riseth of al this talke is only this It is not reason Bishops be iudges in matters of faith and not secular Princes Now to geue a colour hereto and to moue Princes to take the matter into their owne handes they say as becommeth them and none els For there is no man of wisedome or honestie that would with so impudent lyes diminish his credite and with so immoderate vpbraidinges impaire the estimation of his modestie Neither be these men so hote in this matter for any loue they beare to secular Princes For if any such Prince be not a fauorer of their Gospel then haue they a Blast of a Trompet to blow him downe as it appeareth by their bookes made against the monstrous regiment of women and by the good obedience their French brethren the Huguenotes kepe toward their king in France Other examples of the like Euangelical obedience in other countries I leaue to mennes remembrance The circumstance of this whole matter considered which may better be seene in my booke I reporte me to the discrete Reader whether any iust cause be ministred to M. Iewel to pike quarel to the wordes by him alleaged specially if they be wholly and truly alleaged But why did he nippe of those foure wordes with so impudent lyes Doth not this discouer his falsehode and shew of whom that saying was meant It semed good to such a lyer to shifte away the mention of Lyes from the Readers eyes that he might not seme charged therewith Thus al his aduantage standeth in falsehode But what shal a man say To require plainenesse and truth of such a Defender of vntruthe were to require him either to vnsay al that he hath said or to say nothing at al. For certaine it is falsehode can neuer be defended by truth Now it remaineth that I require the Reader to conferre the peeces of sentences that M. Iewel hath culled out of my writinges with the whole sentences as they are by me written and with the circumstance of the places whence they be piked out That being done let it be weighed whether I speake ouer bitterly or he be answered according to his deserte For example I thinke it good here to lay two or three before the Reader that so he be admonished to doo the like him selfe for trial and iudgement to be made in the reste Here to lay forth al were to print againe a great parte of my bookes Special vvordes of discourtesie noted by M. Iâ—wel In the first place then M. Iewel hath noted these wordes Your Deuilish spite Reioindre Fol. 18. b. Consider Reader how and vpon what occasion these wordes are there vttered There thou findest thus First he maketh his entrie with a solemne praier protestantlike as if he were about to make a Sermon and his fauorable hearers ready to sing a song Then he accuseth the inflammation of my choler because alluding to the wordes of Daniel I glaunced at the name of the Foreronners of Antichriste therewith rubbing him and his holy companions as it were on their gaulle for the Deuilish spite they shew to the blessed sacrifice of Christe mystically represented and truly continewed in the dayly Sacrifice of the Church now called the Masse Here I said not Your Deuilish spite directing my talke to you M. Iewel but the Deuilish spite they shew to the blessed Sacrifice of Christe speaking indefinitely of the Protestantes and Sacramentaries of our time And why may I not resonably cal their spite against the Sacrifice a Deuilish spite sithence Luther was taught it of the Deuil him selfe by a night coÌ„ference with him as the wil of God was See the Preface before my secoÌ„d Reioindr Fol. 34. b. he should confesse it in open writing him selfe Whereof I speake in my preface before my last Reioindre there setting forth the same famous Disputation betwen the Deuil and Luther out of Luthers own boke The seconde note of bitter wordes that M. Iewel layeth to my charge is this Your Deuilish vvickednes But where found he these three wordes His cotation is this Reioinder Preface to the Reader But what if I haue vttered no such peece of sentence in al that Preface True it is Reader I haue no such saying there in deede If thou wouldst faine saue M. Iewels honestie and trie the truth peruse that whole Preface if thou find it there let it be blowen abrode that he belieth me not in this point though he haue so done in many other If thou finde it not geue vs leaue to say as truth is that for lacke of good matter against the Catholike Doctrine he deuiseth of his owne head slaunderous Lyes against his Aduersarie Whiche is the common practise of them whose cause is naughte And why hath he put this note in the second place O it had ben a fowle crase to his worship being suche a famous Minister of the worde as he is to haue begonne this new deuise with a flatte lye And thereof was he not ignorant And for that cause he placed the other Note before this whereas folowing order he should haue placed this before that For
swarued I from the truth when I called the Deuil the Father of Heretiques But who seeth not howe here M. Iewel bewraieth him selfe and sheweth his gilty conscience For why should he be offended with any suche saying onlesse he thought him selfe therein touched So Iudas bewraied the gilte of his owne treason saying Nunquid ego sum Rabbi Matth 25 Is it I Master But what meane you M. Iewel May not a man speake of Heretiques as it beseemeth them to be spoken of but you must take peper in the nose Can we not speake ought of Heretiques but your parte must be therein If you wil needes haue it so take it so and God amend you If the reader list to conferre the place thus there I say Confut. 2. a. But what meane al Heretikes may we iudge by coueting so much to be sene that whiche they are not Forsooth they meane none other thing then their Father the Deuil meaneth when he goeth about to begyle man For then what doth he Vseth he not this policie to change his owggly hewe and put him selfe in goodly shape of an Angel of light 2. Cor. 11. For he is not vnwitting that if he shewed him selfe in his owne forme suche as he is euery one would flie from him and none lightly would be deceiued by him Heretikes doo the like Although they hate the Church neuer so deadly yet to haue the more opportunitie to hurt it pretend them selues to be of the Church Lo M. Iewel speaking of Heretiques in general and indefinitely I said their Father the Deuil not your Father the Deuil By this your vndue complaint you bewray your selfe as the Ratte doth oftentimes by his owne noise and euen so you seeme to acknowledge the Deuil for your Father and to enfeaffe your selfe of the estimation and opinion of an Heretique with whiche by me you were not charged The more you ought to beare with me if I happe to stumble vppon your right title hereafter With like reason good Reader I could easily discharge my selfe of the reste of the vehement and sharpe speaches obiected by M. Iewel but I accompte not the matter worth whereon to bestow so much labour This for that may suffice Now it may please thee to peruse that here foloweth and to consider whether M. Iewel be innocent him selfe in the pointes whereof he taketh occasion so immoderatly to reprooue his Aduersarie M. Iewel countercharged with the like sharpenesse and discourtesie of wordes as he reproueth in his Aduersarie The 3. Chapter BVT Sir tel me I pray you what is your iudgement touching these and the like vncourteous wordes and speaches as you cal them with whiche for the more part you vntruly burthen me Thinke you that in no case such manner of vtterance is lawful to be vsed If you thinke so you are deceiued M. Iewel The example of Christ Iohn Baptist the Prophetes the Apostles the ancient holy Fathers shew it to be lawful who as it is before rehersed in certaine cases vsed it so often Verely I doubt not but in this case I meane when a Catholike hath to conuince an Heretike it is most lawful yea not only lawful but also most expedient for causes aboue touched Neither in this case to vse such order of speache is to be accompted Discourtesie and Inciuilitie as your vnnecessarie Ciuilitie interpreteth but right zele and iuste seueritie That spirite of God which aduiseth vs by the mouth of the wise man Prou. 26. to answere a Foole according to his foolishnesse admonisheth vs no lesse in the treatie of Goddes causes with Heretiques to vse suche verdure of Language as may best represse the sawcinesse and pride of their stomakes Neuerthelesse if you thought such sharpe language to be vtterly vnlawful as a thing that may not stand with true modestie and ciuilitie how happed it that so often times you forgote your selfe It is no courteous dealing M. Iewel to reproue that in others that you so cōmonly do your selfe Touching bitter lāguage wherof so bitterly you complaine it may please you at your good leisure to cal to remembrance whose wordes among infinite others these are with what spirite what charitie what modestie they haue benne by you vttered Whiche wordes as for a great parte they haue the outwarde shew of no lesse heate and vehemencie then you note in mine so to any man of right iudgement they seeme to be of a farre more spite and malice A few principal flowers of M. Iewelles modest quiet and charitable speache vttered against the Catholikes taken as they came to sight out of his pretensed Defence founde partely in the Apologie partely in the texte of the said Defence some few also in the Margent FRantike Anabaptistes and Heretiques as ye be Defence 389. Ye Scribes ye Pharisees ye Hypocrites 625. Of the howse of God ye haue made a Caue of Theeues Defence Pag. 2. 304. Of the Churche you haue made a Caue of Theeues 48. The Temple now a daies is a denne of Theeues 706. The Churche they haue made a denne of Theeues 739. You haue blended Goddes wine with puddle water 66. You haue turned the beautie of Sion into the confusion of Babylon 2. Ye haue turned Goddes Temple into the Synagog of Sathan 328. They are without either shame of man or feare of God In the Preface to the Christian Reader They wilfully withstand the truth They be geuen ouer to mainteine lies In the Preface to the Christian Reader They are the children of vntruth They are the Children that wil not heare the law of God Your hote raging sprite 2. Leaue this Hypocrisie 377. The Iewes your ancient Fathers 632. Your Fathers the Phariseis 2. Your forefathers the Phariseis 31 Your fathers cried out what shal we do c. Ioan. 12. 327. S. Hierome said of your fathers non tam indigneutur c. In Sophon c. 3. 328. Ye confesse Scribes and Phariseis to be your fathers 625. Your fathers cried out against Christe Nos legem habemus 484. Christe was called a Samaritane by your auncient Fathers 631. This is very the leauen of the Scribes and Phariseis 66. For malice they depraue our sayinges 23. Your Idolatrous and blasphemous fondnesse 290. They batter vs with lies 23. In spite of the Popes 33. The Popes blinde preiudices 40. The Pope his Cardinalles his Bishoppes sleape and do nothing In the Preface to the Reader The Popes flattering Parasites 160. One of the Popes soothing Pages and Clawbackes 329. The Church of Rome is the very harlot of Babylon and rowe of Deuilles 453. The Canonistes be the Popes Parasites 722. The Tyrannie of the Bishoppes of Rome 457. The Popes Barbarous Persianlike Pride Ibidem The Church of Rome is nothing elles but a mother of falshod and schoole of Pride 609. Idolatrie is in the Churche of Rome 628. 629. The Pope vseth neither Gods worde nor discipline 550. The Churche of Rome hath most shamefully and wickedly erred 565. The Pope speaketh
with you or rather you with them They renounced the Popes Primacie they condemned Purgatorie they called Images by the name of Idolles they contemned holy Water and such other good and holesome ceremonies they reproued the Religion of the Begging friers with such like al as ye doo I marueile therefore why they are none of yours Verely Aeneas Syluius saith that Iohn Huss Iohn Hu◠whom in the nexte line you allowe for yours imbraced the wicked secte of the Waldenses And why then are not the one yours as wel as the other As for Imagebreakers Image-breakers if they be not yours whose are they They were no Papistes your selfe wil confesse I trowe that haue ouerthrowen Images in England and in Scotland in Fraunce and now of late here in sundry places of the low Countrie They be yours they be yours M. Iewel and such others a great many moe with whom in a rueful procession ye are like to ioine singing Vae with them if ye repent not and sing an other song Iewel Pag. 48. Of Iohn Huss Hierome of Prage and Berengarius and other like vertuous learned menne vve haue no cause to be ashamed Harding The more verely is your shame if any sparke of shame be leafte in you Albeit no great wonder For it must needes be true that the wise man saith Prouer. 18. Impius cū in profundum venerit contemnit When the wicked man is come vnto the bottom of wickednes then he passeth of nothing Neither the Whoare at length taketh shame of any her filthinesse what soeuer And therefore it is said of such pastshame wretches Ierem. 3. Frons mulieris meretricis facta est tibi Thou hast gotten thee a whoares forehead Though I haue smal hope of any good to be done with you yet for the sake of others thus I maie saie vnto you You denied a litle before the Waldenses to be yours But the Hussites followed altogether the Waldenses as witnesseth Aeneas Syluius Therefore the Hussites also ought to be none of yours Yet you are not you saie ashamed of Iohn Hus. I marueile now the lesse yf you be not ashamed of your so many so notorious and shamelesse Vntruthes vttered before in your Replie and confuted by diuers but now repeted and renewed againe the Confutation thereof vtterly dissembled The most shameful heresies of Hus of vvhō M. Ievvel professeth him selfe not to be ashamed Alphōsus de Castro aduersus haereses lib. 6. Concil Constant post 45. Sess But if you meane good faith and that you are not in deede ashamed of Iohn Hus neither of Hierome of Prage then tel vs I praie you how like you these heresies of theirs First of Iohn Hus who with the olde Donatistes affirmed that in the Churche are onely good men Are you not ashamed of that heresie so clearely and so fully confuted by S Augustine Againe of that other to pounish one that is excommunicate with the secular sworde is a pharisaical tyrannie Allowe you also that dissolute Heresie And if you be not ashamed to professe this Doctrine why are ye not then ashamed to doo that whiche is repugnant to the Doctrine ye professe For how saie you Doo ye not excommunicate such as wil not condescende vnto your pestiferous opinions and refuse to come to your heretical Seruice And then further if they stand constantly in the mainetenance of the truth as it becommeth menne that haue the feare of God before their eyes not yeelding to your great but vaine threates doo ye not cause their persons to be apprehended by the secular officer and to be cast in prison and then in your wicked and bloudy preachinges crye ye not out vnto the prince to drawe her sworde Are ye not I saie ashamed thus to fight with your selues teaching one thing and doing the cleane contrarie Alphonsus lib. 12. Cōcil Cōstantien Thirdely haue ye no shame of that other heresie that who soeuer is in deadly sinne is neither kinge nor ciuile Magistrate nor Bishop How like you of this brutish heresie Haue you no cause to be ashamed of Iohn Hus I let passe other his infamous heresies Ioan. Cochlaeus Hus said Masse a litle before he vvas burnt Suprà ca. 3. fol. 83. Hierom of Prage But if you be not ashamed of any of his heresies how saie you to that he said Masse as it is proued before and that but a fewe daies before he was burnt Be ye neither ashamed of that What is that ye wil be ashamed of in an heretique then being neither ashamed of his heresies nor of that he iudgeth wel of the Masse But now touching Hierome of Prage haue you no cause M. Iewel to be ashamed of him Verely it appeareth by the Councel of Constance Concil Constant Sessio 21. Sessi 19. he helde and professed al and singular the heresies of Wiclef and Iohn Hus. He recanted once openly and abiured them al as Cranmar did in Oxforde but after reuolting againe to his former vomite he was burned for an Heretique Hierom of Prage recanted and returned to his vomite as Cranmar was If you thinke it no shame to be an heretique as Hierome was yet I trowe ye thinke it a shame to recante as he did How be it I maie doubte thereof for your selfe haue trodden that trace and perhappes maie once more be brought to tread it againe and like it is that you wil not be ashamed of it and to reuolte once backe againe so litle shame is in you Go your waie then M. Iewel It booteth not vs to goe aboute to make you blush For I perceiue there is nothing whereof lightly you wil be ashamed such a shamelesse grace you haue As for Berengarius Berengarius of whome likewise you saie you haue no cause to be ashamed I marueile the lesse considering the natural propertie of heretikes which is to increase their errours daily and to procede from il to worse Luther the first brocher of your religion was ashamed of Berengarius and would neuer condescende to Carolostadius though fiue yeres continually he trauailed with him to bring him to be of Berengarius opinion Flacius Illyricus with his felowes of Magdeburg al the Protestantes of Wittenberg of Lipsia of the vpper Saxonies Nicolaus Gallus George Maior Westphalus Brentius and diuers others whom your selfe accompte for Gospellers for the true godly and right beleeuers are al to this daie ashamed of Berengarius and be at defiance with you and them of his opinion and doo in their writinges and preachinges plainely condemne your Sacramentarie Heresie of whiche Berengarius was the first publisher Tom. 2. fo 260. Luther condemneth the heresie of Berengarius reuiued by Zuinglius in these wordes I must needes eschew and auoide them as men condemned by their owne iudgement Neither maie I ioine with them in any meanes by letters In parua Confess de Caena Domini In publica Confes pura doctrina Lib. cōtra 11. sectas
yet this man had he ben in Italie and seene what is there continually donne howe the Exorcistes doo in deede cast forth Deuilles in manner weekely as diuers of our owne Contriemenne that haue ben present can reporte he would for very shame if any were in him haue kepte in that negatiue Verely I feare me he wil one daie procede further and vtterly denie the Order of Bisshops to be necessarie bicause he can franckely say that the Bishops preache not his lustly Caluinian Gospel Yet I trowe he wil be good maister to the Superintendentes of England that be of his owne profession of whom some preache not and some haue not the learning to preache nor yet to tel a wise tale The Apologie Cap. 3. Diuis 2. Pag. 98. Yet notvvithstanding vvee say that there neither is nor can be any one man vvhiche may haue the vvhole superioritie in this Vniuersal state for that Christe is euer presente to assiste his Churche and needeth not any man to supplie his roome as his onely heire to al his Substance and that there can be no one mortal creature vvhiche is hable to comprehende or conceiue in his minde the vniuersal Churche that is to vvit al the partes of the vvorlde muche lesse hable rightly and duely to put them in Order and to Gouerne them Iewel Pag. 98. M. Hardinges ansvvere hereto is too long and tedious Harding I dare wel saie it is too tedious to you and glad would you be to be rid of it if you wist whiche waie Acknowlege the truthe M. Iewel returne from your errour leaue of scoffing suppresse singularitie deliâ—e not in the vaine praises that your ignorant fauourers geue you feare God thinke you can not continue in in this Brauerie alwaies then shal you finde liking in my answere and thinke it nothing to tedious Certaine it is the mater is not so sclenderly to be answered Iewel Pag. 98. VVhere vve saie no one mortal man is hable to vvealde the burthen of the vvhole Churche of God M. Harding ansvvereth vvhere any thing is in deed there vvhether it maie be or not to discusse it is needelesse Therefore vvhether any one man can be superiour and Chiefe ouer the vvhole Church vve leaue to speake that so it is thus vve prooue Euery parishe hath his seueral vicare or person and euerie Diocesâ— his ovvne Bisshâ—ppe Ergo vvhat reason is it there be one Chiefe Gouernour of the vvhole Christen people c. His firste reason concludeth very vveakely Euerie Parishe is Gouerned by one Vicare or Personne and euerie Diocese is gouerned by one seueral Bishop Ergo there is one vniuersal Gouernour ouer the vvhole Churche of Christe Here is neither order in reason nor sequele in nature Therefore of any man vvould denie the argument M. Harding vvere â—â—uer hable to make it good Harding The iustification of this Argument The .10 Chapt. Yeas forsooth the Argument may be proued very wel by this axioma or dignitie in nature vpon the which the Argument is grounded That the whole ought to be gouerned by one general Head whose seueral partes can not be gouerned without seueral Heades If your leisure serue you you may nowe traine the Argument that I was neuer hable to make good as you say for lacke of order in reason and sequele in nature if ye altogether haue not forgotten your Logique whereof you set vs forth so often crakes into the very forme of a good and perfite Syllogisme If your courage then serue you to denie the Argument you shal but disgrace your selfe in denying the groundes of that arte wherein you haue placed a great parte of your glorie and put your selfe to paine to make vs some newe Logique of your owne that menne may trust too Searche diligently the cause without scoffing and wrangling why the seueral partes of the vniuersal Churche Parishes Dioceses prouinces are not hable to be kepte in any good order without seueral heades the selfe cause shal infourme you that the vniuersal Churche may muche lesse be kepte in order without one general Head Render what causes you can M. Iewel you shal neuer be hable to auoide it before any learned companie but that the one shal folowe of the selfe same causes as wel as the other Whereas you runne to disprooue myne argument by making the like of euerie kingdome ruled by one Prince inferring Ergo there ought to be one vniuersal Prince to rule ouer the whole worlde I see no such absurditie in the conclusion of this Argument the seueral rightes of Princes reserued vntouched but that if you should talke with Aristotle that great Philosopher you should see good cause to graunt it If there were but one good Monarke in the whole worlde would there not be fewer broilles and warres in the worlde then nowe we feele Perhappes when the matter is wel weighed it may seeme the worlde was neuer in better state then when it was gouerned by one good Emperour Let a iuste Viewe be taken of Constantines time the Great Yet it must be confessed there is great difference betwixt the Ciuile gouernemeÌ„t of Princes who maie be permitted to rule their seueral Dominions without one general Head bicause they haue to do but with thinges of the worlde as with earthly goodes landes and such other thinges which may receiue diuers kindes of rule without danger of Soules and the Ecclesiastical gouernment whose chiefe respect is to keepe vnitie of Faith in the bonde of peace which may not receiue any alteration without great danger to our Saluation Therefore there is greater cause to haue one general Head or Supreme gouernour without whom this vnitie can not be kepte any long time Hiero. aduersus Iouinianum lib. 1. as S. Hierome witnesseth to rule the whole Churche in matters of Saluation then to haue one Head to rule ouer the whole worlde in wordely matters To your other scorneful Argument of one general Shepehearde to be hadde ouer al the flockes of 〈◊〉 throughout the whole world I wil frame answere when you can prooue that God hath as great care to bring al the shepe in the worlde to the selfe same glorie of life euerlasting as he hath to bring menne or that he hath appointed them any one general ende the whiche they can not atteine without the hauing of one general shepeherd to gouerne the whole kinde But S. Paule putteth al suche fonde reasons to silence by this question where he asketh 1. Cor. 9. Nunquid de bobus cura est Deo Hath God any such special care of kine and Oxen as he hath of menne Put vp such shepeherdes pipes for shame M. Iewel and leaue to piper vs vp such trifles If you minde thus to continue euery ignorant Reader at length shal espie what litle good stuffe ye vtter I made not these reasons for that menne should take them for very precise Demonstrations or for that euery one of them alone had ful force to conclude as though the whole weight
whiche beare the name of Christians And to the Apostles Christe said Matt. 28. I am with you al daies vntil the worldes ende If he be with them til the ende they likewise are in the worlde til the worldes ende But they liued not so long in this worlde therefore it is meant that from age to age and from man to man Christe will haue alwayes some to sitte in the Chaieres and Seates of his Apostles by ordinarie Succession vntil the worldes ende Of this Succession Dauid in the person of Christ spake in spirite saying to the Church For thy Fathers Psal 44. Sonnes are borne vnto thee Thou shalt ordeine them the Chiefe Gouernours ouer al the earth The Church answereth I shal be mindeful o Lorde of thy name in euery Generation and Generation therefore the peoples shal geue praise and thankes to thee for euer and from age to age .. So that the cause why the Churche continueth are the Gouernours by God appointed vnto it and as the Churche continueth from age to age so do they gouerne from age to age For the Visible Flocke of shepe can not long lacke their Visible shepeheard at any time but that the Wolues wil enter in and disperse them a sunder Iewel VVhen Christ beganne to refourme their abuses and errours they said to him Luc. 20. Mark 11. Beda in Lucam li. 5. cap. 80. by vvhat povver doest thou these thinges and vvho gaue the this authoritie vvhere is thy Succession Vpon vvhiche vvordes Beda saith They vvould haue the people vnderstand for that he had no solenne Succession that al that he did vvas of the Deuil Harding See vvhat cōueiāce M. Ievv vseth to helpe his cause Scarse one line hath passed your handes into the whiche you haue nor conueied of your owne head the worde Succession Whereas neither S. Luke nor S Mathew nor S. Marke nor S. Paule nor S. Hierome nor the Pharisees nor Bede whom you allege vsed that worde at al. But to make your tale sound against Succession M. Ievv falsifieth al his testimonies you driue al to that point and thereby you falsifie euery place that you bring as euery man shal finde who doth conferre the matter with the Originals and so al your Defence standeth vpon fialsified Authorities But our cause God be praised for it is so strong Christes true Succession that we neede not to care though al that were true whiche you allege For albeit the Pharisees would not harken to Christes Succession yet in deede he Succeded lineally to al the Kinges and Patriarkes and thereby to the Priestes also of the best Order to wit of the Lawe of nature and not of the Law of Moyses whiche was an inferiour Lawe in respecte of that of Nature Christ therefore had not onely a most perfite Succession which is described in the Gospel from Adam til Ioseph the husbande of the Virgin Marie but also with that his Succession he stopped al the mouthes of his Enemies For thus he said to them VVhat thinke you of Christe that is of your Messias whom you looke for Matt. 22. VVhose Sonne is he They say to him the Sonne of Dauid Christ saith to them Psal 109. How then doth Dauid cal him Lorde in spirite saying The Lord hath said to my Lord sit at my right hand vntil I put thy enemies as a foote stoole vnder thy feete If then Dauid cal him Lorde how is he his Sonne And no man was hable to answer him a worde Neither durst any manne after that daye aske him any moe questions Here it is first to be noted that the Scribes and Pharisees knew Christ to haue a Succession from Dauid For his Sonne they said he must be Therefore M. Iewel in making the Pharisees to acknowledge no Succession of his hath corrupted the texte of the Gospel and vttered a great Vntruthe The Pharisees knew that Christe should succede in the very beste line but they would not attende nor consider how that Succession was now brought to passe in the Sonne of Marie who being of the howse of Dauid had miraculously brought forth Christe the perfite ende of the Lawe So likewise M. Iewel knoweth that the Churche of Christe must needes haue a perpetual Succession but he wil not consider how it is preserued chiefely in the Chaier of Peter Ioan. 21. to whom aboue al others the sheepe of Christ were committed Wel Christe then geuing the Iewes to vnderstand that he succeeded in the line of Dauid Christ not only the Sonne of Dauid but also the Sône of God would haue had them farther to consider that he also was the sonne of God and so shewed that he who was Dauids Sonne was also called the Lord of Dauid his Sonne by flesh his Lord by Godhed which thing did put them al to silence Euen so that weake mortal and some time miserable and sinful man whome sitting at Rome M. Iewel despiseth when he heareth him to be according to the gifte of God the Vicare of Christes loue as S. Ambrose calleth him in feeding his shepe Ambr. in cōmment in Luc. c. 24. and the Successour of the chiefe Apostle he is surely astoined at it and would be put to silence if he were not worse then a Pharisee For admitting that the Pope were not S. Peters Successour but onely one of the lowest Bishoppes of Christes Churche yet who would not woonder to see him keepe his Succession so notably fiften hundred yeres together wheras al the Patriarkes and thousandes of Bishops besides are so mangled and so brought to nought But now if wee adde hereunto that the same is euen by our enemies confession and euer was the first See how muche more ought they to woonder at the special prouidence of God in that behalfe Therefore euen as it was miraculous that the line of Dauid was so notably preserued in so many changes and captiuities of the Iewes right so may we say of the Bishoppes of Rome in suche sorte as smaller thinges doo imitate the greater and may in their manner be compared to the greater Iewel Cyrillus frameth the Pharisees vvordes in this sorte Cyrillus in Cathen in Luc. 20. Thou Being of the tribe of Iuda and therefore hauing no right by Succession vnto the Priesthood takest vpon thee the office that is committed vnto vs. Harding Here againe you adde these wordes hauing no right by Succession vnto the Priesthode of your owne head M. Ievv falsifieth Cyrillus by adding vvordes of his ovvne Howbeit euen there Cyrillus sheweth that Christe had right by Succession which you should not haue conceeled had you dealt truly For there it foloweth Sed si nouisses ô Pharisee scripturas recoleres quòd hic est Sacerdos qui secundùm ordinem Melchisedech offert Deo in se credentes per cultum qui legem transcendit O thou Pharisee Christe had right also by successiō if thou haddest knowen the Scriptures thou wouldest remember that this
Fathers accompted euil in vvedlok vvorke Matrimonie it selfe were an euil thing God forbid any should so speake of Goddes holy ordinance But he meaneth the coniunction of the Husband with his wife in the acte of generation Neither yet vnderstandeth he the coniunction or acte it selfe in wedlocke to be an euil thing so it be not to the end to saciate luste and pleasure but to the ende to begete a childe that being againe begotten and regenerate may serue to fil the Citie of God as S. Augustine speaketh but the immoderate concupiscence and luste without the whiche that wedlocke acte is not done Whereof S. Augustine saith August de Nuptijs et concupiscent lib. 1. cap. 24. Cùm ventum fuerit ad opus generandi ipse ille licitus honestus concubitus non poterit esse sine ardore libidinis vt peragi possit quod rationis est non libidinis This immoderate concupiscence this inordination this rebellion of the fleshe and preuenting and ouerbearing of reason this filthy motion swaruing from reason whereof shame is taken without whiche the acte of Wedlocke is not donne is the thing whiche the authour of that vnperfite worke vppon S. Matthew and sundry holy Fathers haue called Malum asmuche to say an euil thing The euil thing of wedlock vvorke of married persons vvel vsed The three good thinges of marriage à cap. 10. vsque ad cap. 16. Whiche euil thing notwithstanding married personnes doo vse wel bicause of the three good thinges that Matrimonie hath by which it is excused Those three thinges are these Fides Proles Sacramentum Faith or Fidelitie Issue and the Sacrament whereof S. Augustine teacheth learnedly in his firste booke De Nuptijs concupiscentia ad Valerium By these three good thinges as S. Augustine and the Churche teacheth the vse of Matrimonie is excused not as an acte that of it selfe is euil is excused thorough ignorance or infirmitie whiche is rather an excuse of the partie that worketh but it is excused for that otherwise it should be a sinne excepte it had these three good thinges ioyned together Whiche when it hath the Circumstances to euery good acte behooful presupposed it is an acte lawful honest good and laudable Now this being considered whereas you M. Iewel iudge the holy Fathers to speake otherwise of Matrimonie then the honor and holinesse of that state deserueth you shew your selfe to be of the nūber of those deceiued men August de Nuptus et Concupis lib. 1. ca. 5. of whom S. Augustin saith thus Profectò errāt qui cū vituperatur libido carnalis damnari nuptias opinantur quasi morbus iste de connubio sit non de peccato Verely they are deceiued which when fleshly luste is rebuked thinke that marriage is condemned as though this disease were of wedlocke August de peccato originali contra Pelag. Coelestiū lib. 2. c. 37 and not of sinne Likewise he saith againe Quia iam ista conditione mortalium nunc simul aguntur concubitus libido eò fit vt cùm libido reprehendatur etiam nuptialis concubitus licitus honestus reprehendi putetur ab eis qui nolunt discernere ista vel nesciunt Bicause as the condition of men is now after Sinne the acte of generation and lust are done both atonce thereof it commeth to passe that when luste is reprooued the lawful and honest dealing of them together that be coupled in wedlocke is thought also to be reprooued of them whiche wil not discerne betwene these thinges he meaneth the acte and the lust or els know not how to discerne them To cōclude what so euer certaine Fathers say and how so euer they seeme to speake of Matrimonie this perteined nothing to the purpose Al your great number of allegations might haue ben leafte out for asmuche as thereby your Vowbreakers marriage is nothing iustified nor defended M. Iewels second Principle for defence of Vow-breakers marriages answered which is that Bisshoppes and Priestes were married in olde time Your second Principle for so you cal it wherein you put the chiefe confidence of this cause is that many Bishops and Priestes in olde time were married for so you dispose your wordes I tel you M. Iewel you haue not so much as one example for you that a bishop was married I meane that any was euer married in the olde Church and allowed in it after that he was Bishop That diuers and sundry married menne were for their vertue and holy life made Bishops I denie not ne neuer yet denied You allege al the examples of antiquitie that you can yet not so much as one to the purpose That Tertullian was a married man Tettulliā of a married man made Priest Spiridion made Bisshop frō being a married laie man S. Hilarie married by M. Ievvel In the Reioinder against the Sacrifice of the Masse fol. 172. b. and afterwarde made a Priest I graunte You say Spiridion the Bisshop of Cyprus was married and had children I denie that Spiridion being a Bishop was married but I confesse that being a married laye man before he was chosen afterwarde to be a Bishoppe and had one daughter named Irene Whether he had mo children I knowe not of mo children of his I haue not read You make S. Hilarie the bishop of Poitiers a married man Your proufe is the Epistle to Abra his daughter If I denie that he was euer married how can ye prooue it The Epistle to Abra is a peeuish Apocryphal and forged write as I tolde you in my last Reioindre where you vtter this same very stuffe in great sooth whereby the worlde may vnderstand what simple ragges ye haue wherwith to coouer your brethern the Apostates filthy lecherie That Prosper the Bishop of Rhegium was a married man you say it but you prooue it not And were it so yet it serueth not your turne bicause if he were maried it was before he was priest Neither haue you good authoritie for proufe that Chaeremon Chaeremō the Bishop of a Citie called Nilus whom you recken among married Bishops Euseb Hist Eccles lib. 6. cap 42. was married Eusebius saith that in time of persecution he fled vnto a Hil in Arabia with her that liued with him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and was neuer founde againe That she was his wife it appeareth not She might be some woman of his kinne or some other old womā that kept him and dressed his meate and attended him as a nourse of whom he had neede being a man of extreme age as Eusebius reporteth of him saying that he was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is to say passing olde Polycrates Polycrates you say being a Bisshop sometimes said that seuen of his Fathers or Ancestours had ben Bishoppes What healpeth this your cause at al Marry say you the Greeke word is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and Ruffinus translateth it Patres Wherunto sticke you vnto the Greeke word
with any suche care how said the Apostle before vnius vxoris virum that a Bishop should be the husband of one wife Some vnderstand such a one to be signified by these wordes that shal be made a Bishop after his wiues death Albeit he that hath a wife may be as one not hauing And this much he graunted them very wel in consideration of the time 1. Cor. 7. and nature of the thing as the case then stoode And a man may take that thing honestly and lawfully if he wil. For as richesse doo hardly bring a man into the kingdom of Heauen yet often times many riche men haue there entred in so also doth marriage Thus farre goeth the greke in S. Chrysostom and no further touching this matter For immediatly follow not the wordes that M. Iewel buildeth his proufe vpon but other wordes coÌ„cerning an other thing as euery learned man may see in the â—…nted Greeke booke in the 20. leafe the seconde pag. tâ—â— 20. line You might haue sene this in the Greeke M. Iewel or your Greeke Frende for you aswel as you saw that other place of S. Chrysostome by me truly alleged and traÌ„slated where he expoundeth these wordes of S. Paul Tit. 1. ho. 2 The husbande of one wife Which place you wring and wrâ—st very violently to serue your purpose and yet it wil not be M. Ievv in his defence pa. 175. vseth false traÌ„slation and the learned may easily perceiue your false iuggling in it There you wil nedes haue 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to signifie the wife that is gonne from her husband by diuorce and therefore you turne it Vxori quae decessit à se whereas you should haue followed the allowed translation that is in vse which hath Defunctae vxori the wife deceassed or departed this life So I haue turned the place in my Confutation according to the Greeke and as the common Latine translation hath Consider therefore how impudently you reproue me without cause First in the margent of your booke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Pag. 164. ouer against this testimonie of S. Chrysostom truly translated by me out of the Greeke worde for worde For whereas be â—â—epeth no beneuolâ—nce towarde his wife deceased how can he be a good gouernour You haue set this odious note of reproufe directing it by your sterre vnto the worde deceassed * Vntruthe For M. Harding fowly mistaketh S. Chrysostomes meaning And there again immediatly * Vntruth standing in false exposition Not being content with this in your teâ—te page 174. lin 3. you say further Those wordes M. Harding in his translation hath purposely falsified I haue not purposely falsified them M. Iewel for they be not myâ—â— but they be the wordâ—â— of the common trâ—â—slation and the same iâ— according to the Greeke For thâ— verbe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth not to departe away by diuorce as you haue violently turned it but simply to departe or goe awaye and sometimes as in this very place to departe out of this life You might haue learned so much of the common Greeke Lexicon VVhat secoÌ„d marriage not forbiddeÌ„ by the lavves Now that S. Chrysostome is so to be vnderstanded S. Chrysostome him selfe clearely sheweth in wordes of the same sentence there For whereas he speaketh of that second marriage which he confesseth not to be forbidden by the lawes what other second marriage meaneth he but that when as a man marrieth againe after the deceasse of his first wife For I trow you wil not say that the lawes after Christes comming among Christian men permitted a man to marrie againe his wife being aliue and so to haue two wiues at once specially in the case which your translation importeth that is when the wife is not put away for Aduoutrie of her parte but departeth from the husband which she may not do but for aduoutrie of his parte It is not likely S. Paule would debarre a man from comming vnto the dignitie of a Bishop that had two wiues at once For such a one excepte he repented and had put awaye from him one of them was not admitted to be made a Christian man What trow ye that he required not a farrâ— moâ—â— pâ—rfection in him that was to be made a Bishop Thus you see good reason why Ambrosâ—â—s-Câ—â—ildâ—leâ—sis that learned man traÌ„slated 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for that is S. Chrysostoms word and not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as you haue noted in your bookes margent by this worde Defunctae and why I turned it the wife disceassed You may now of your courtesie take backe againe your bitter reproches of fowle mistaking of false exposition of purposed falsifying to your selfe For these special qualities be proued to be yours they be not myne For two other testimonies in proufe of Priestes Marriage M. Iewel craueth helpe at Erasmus and Cornelius Agrippa Thus he saith Iewel Erasmus saith The Priestes of the Greeke Church this daie not vvithstanding their Orders marrie vviues The like vvriteth Cornelius Agrippa against the Iouanians Harding Erasmus and Cornelius Agrippa Erasmus and Cornel Agrippa be menne of smal credite God wote in this cause which in their time they fâ—uoâ—red as much as you do now It is coÌ„monly reported you know for a vaine shifte of a theefe to say Aske my fellow whether I be a theefe or no. Herein we are moued with the authoritie of these two smatterers of your Gospel in their daies but newly brocâ—ed no more then if we heard Frier Luther Monke Hâ—pâ—r Peter Martyr the regulare Chanon of S. Augustines order and suche other married Apostates to speake a good worde in fauour of their vnlawful yokinges How be it the truth is both Erasmus and Cornelius Agrippa belye the Greeke Churche herein as the Doctours of the Sorboâ—e in Paris haue in their Censures againste Erasmus truely declared For by the lawe it was neuer nor yet is to this day lawful in the Greeke Churche for Priestes to marrie wiues after that they haue taken the holy Order of Priesthoodâ— Ieâ—â—l Likevvise Cardinal Caietâ—nâ— saith Nec ratione nec authoritatâ— probari potest Caietan in Quod libet quod absolute loquendo Sacerdos peccet coÌ„traheÌ„do matrimonius â–ª It can not be proued neither by reason nor by aâ—thâ—ritie speaking absolutely that a Priest offendeth God 〈◊〉 marrying a vvife Harding Cardinal Caietane hath his errours for which he hath ben reproued and confuted We are not bound to mainteine what so euer he saith How be it this saying of his seemeth to haue no great errour VVhere of is it that the Marriage of Priestes in the vvest Church is vnlavvful Statute of the Churche and Vovvannexed so it be vnderstanded as he meant There be two thinges that make the marriage of Priestes in the most Church vnlawful the Sâ—… of the Church and the Vow annexed The Statute and coÌ„stitution of the Church bindeth clerkes receiuing holy Orders neuer to marrie As touching
processe declared by S. Gregorie Nazianzene in the Oration which he made at the burial of his Father Whereby it is made cleare to al menne how his Father was holpen by his wife not as being a Bishop as M. Iewel doth vntruly say but as yet being an Infidel That her sonne reporteth of her that she was vnto his Father a helper a guide a leader Faithful vviues haue ben cause of their husbandes conuersion to the faith Monica S. Augustines Mother laboured to coÌ„uert Patricius her husband Confessionum li. 9. cap. 9. a Captaine an instructour a teacher a maistresse in religion and godlinesse al this is to be vnderstanded of the time in which he remained an vnbeleuer not of the time in which he was Bishop of Nazianzum Herein she did the parte that many other godly and faithful wiues haue donne who haue vsed the like diligence and care to bring their husbandes being Infidels vnto the faith of Christe That holy woman Monica S. Augustines mother did the like with her husband Patricius of whom he writeth thus in his booke of Confessions speaking vnto God as there his manner is Tradita vira seruiuit veluti Domino sategit cum lucrari tibi c. When she was married out vnto her husband she serued him as if he had ben her Maister and tooke care how she might winne him vnto thee ô Lorde Againe he said there afterwarde Virâ—m sâ—â—m iam in extrema vita temporall eiuâ— lucrata est tibi She wanne her husband vnto thee ô Lorde now in the ende of his temporal life In consideration that God oftentimes worketh such grace by the wife to the winning of the husband vnto God S. Paule requireth that a Christian woman put not awaie her husband from her being an infidel if he coÌ„sent to dwel with her For how knowest thou o woman saith he whether thou shalt saue thy husband or no 1. Cor. 7. Either you haue read these thinges M. Iewel in the place from whence you tooke the wordes which here you allege or you trusted the gatherer of your Notes If you trusted your gatherer you should haue tried the testimonie wel before you had spoken so peremptorily If you haue readde and seene al this in that you haue conceeled the truth and spoken so much to the contrary you shew your selfe to be one that is litle to be trusted Certainely al menne may nowe see howe iust cause I haue not to take these fittons and corruptions againe vnto me but to leaue them with you and to charge you with them as I did before in my Confutation of your Apologie After this M. Iewel bringeth in a great meany of Doctours sayinges with whiche they commende Marriage and seeme to blame them that despised and condemned Marriage and were of the opinion that a man could not be saued if he were married Whereunto I thinke al answere needeles for asmuch as we are not they that condemne Marriage as it hath now ben oftentimes said we esteme it as honorable and where marriage is lawful and lawfully vsed we accoÌ„pt that bed vnspotted and cleane as S. Paule calleth it Mary we say Heb. 13. that who soeuer haue bound them selues to liue in continencie by soleÌ„ne Vow as Priestes and Religious persons for them it is not lawful to marrie and their Marriage is vnlawful or rather none at al. Against whiche doctrine M. Iewel hath nothing to say nor to allege and yet touching Marriage he hath filled a great deale of paper with the doctours sayinges So ready he is to bring muche and so litle hable to bring ought that maketh clearely for him What thinges certaine Fathers haue writen against impure heretikes dispraising marriage in al men VVith vvhat stuffe M. Ievv furnisheth out this pointe at large Defence Pag. 187. 188. 189. the same he allegeth now as if they were spoken against the Catholikes condemning the Marriage of these Apostates He bringeth in a long saying of Origen spoken of the Marcionistes and Cerdonistes and such others He allegeth Epiphanius against the filthy Origenians Chrysostome against wicked wemen that keping the name of Maides liued worse then hartlots in the Stewes Briefely so many mo as he founde old and late writers of al sortes speaking bitterly against the impune life of il menne and wemen Whereunto I answere briefly As al the married Apostates approche neare vnto the filthinesse of Deuils so some of the Catholique Clergie and religious personnes be farre from the purenesse of Angelles God geue vs al grace to amende that is amisse and you M. Iewel a better harte and more charitie towardes his Church With which grace being endewed you wil take lesse pleasure in reporting il of her Ministers I neede not here after this sorte to trauaile any farther in this matter against Maister Iewel What soeuer is beside that whiche I haue here answered in the whole booke of his pretensed Defence touching thâ—… point it is either not worth the answering as altogether impertinent or sufficiently refelled in my former Confutation Compare the one with the other Christian Reader and if thou be hable to iudge of these thinges assure thy selfe my sayd Confutation maie satisfie thee for ought that M. Iewel bringeth Now bicause it were infinite to stand vppon euery pointe and to discusse so many tedious and impertinent allegations I thinke it more conuenient to vse an other waie and by laying together certaine his Vntruthes to make shorter worke M. Iewels Vntruthes and flatte Lies concerning the Marriage of Priestes and Votaries He steineth the authoritie of S. Hierome S. Chrysostome Pag. 165. S. Gregorie Nazianzen and diuers other learned and ancient Fathers as disgracing lawful Matrimonie and the Marriage of Widowes and Widowers He saith S. Hierome in Catalogo witnessed that Tertullian was a married Priest Pag. 166. The place wil shew this vntruth Albeit I denie not but that he was married before he was Priest and so were diuers others as Spiridion S. Gregorie Nazianzenes Father Gregorius Nyssenus and certaine others He saith S. Hilarie Bishoppe of Poitiers was married and that he prooueth by an Apocryphal epistle to one Abra his daughter These toies are vaine and more fabulous then Esops fables So he maketh Prosper the bishop of Rhegium a married man vpon a felender coniecture how soeuer it be it can not be prooued that he was married after that he was Bishop that is ynough for vs. He saith that Polycrates had seuen of his Fathers Bishops before him The meaning of the testimonie alleged for that purpose is that seuen of his howse and kinred had benne Bishoppes in his Churche before him For so signifieth the Greeke worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as is before noted That which he allegeth vnder the name of Pope Damasus is intitled in the Decrees Palea as muche to say Chaffe by which name in the Decrees of Gratian that is signified which is by some other maÌ„
errour whiche he helde as his priuate opinion was condemned at the sounde of trompettes in presence of that king as Gerson writeth but that was done before he was Pope Iewel 639. Your ovvne Glose saith Dist 63. In Synod in Glos Papa potest dare potestatem Imperatori vt deponat ipsum sese illi in omnibus subijcere The Pope maie geue the Emperour povver to depose him selfe and maie in al thinges submitte him selfe vnto him Harding Be it that our Glose saith so M. Iewel your Glose I might rather saie For the Gloser seemeth to be your chiefe Doctour There was neuer Diuine that serued him selfe with the stuffe of the Glose so muche as you doo What inferre you vpon it If you can like a good Logician frame this argument vppon that Glose The Pope maie geue the Emperour authoritie to depose him selfe Ergo the Pope maie be conuented before the Magistrate as one that through vertue of his temporal office is his superiour in Ecclesiastical causes let vs haue it in writing and we wil returne you the like with as good consequence and saie The Queene may geue anie of her Lordes and subiectes power to depose her from her roial estat and to transferre it to an other Ergo shee maie be conuented before that Lord and subiect of hers as one that hath authoritie to depose her of him selfe without commission and authoritie from her grace And if you finde fault with the sequele of this find fault with the sequele of you own For they are both like Dist 93. cap. vltim in Glossa The Law saith Ex alterius persona quis consequitur quod non habet ex sua A man getteth of an other-mannes person that which he hath not of his owne Wherefore the Emperour hauing authoritie of the Pope to depose him Extr. de off iudicis Deleg c. Sanè hath not that authoritie of him selfe or any his Imperial power but of the Pope And seing Iudex delegatus à Papa gerit vices Papae a Iudge delegated of the Pope occupieth the roome of the Pope the Emperour in this case shal not depose him as Emperour but as the Popes Vicegerent and Delegate Iewel Pag. 639. Franciscus Zarabella saith De schemate Concilio It is de Schismate pontificuÌ„ Papa accusari potest coram Imperatore de quolibâ—t crimine notorio Imperator requirere potest à Papa rationem fidei The Pope maie be accused before the Emperour of any notorious crime and the Emperour maie require the Pope to yelde an accompte of his faith Harding Neither Franciscus Zarabella nor Franciscus Zabarella for so is his true name saith as you reporte that Papa potest accusari coram Imperatore de quolibet crimine notorio M. Ievvel falsifieth his Doctor by addition of his ovvne to helpe his mater The Pope maie be accused before the Emperour of any notorious crime Those wordes coram Imperatore before the Emperour are of your owne interlacing and be not in the Authour You ought to be ashamed so fouly to corrupte your authours and deceiue the people Againe Zabarella sayth not Imperator requirere potest à Papa rationem fidei the Emperour may require the Pope to yeelde an accompte of his faieth They are your woordes Maister Iewel That whiche Zabarella saith is thus Zabarella made to saie What pleaseth M. Ievvel Si Papa est de haeresi suspectus potest Imperator ab eo exigere vt indiret quid sentiat de fide that is if the Pope be suspected of heresie the Emperour may require of him that he declare what he thinketh of the Faith Nowe sir to require a man to yeelde an accompte of his Faith and to require him to declare what he thinketh are twoo diuerse thinges For the one can not be donne but by Superiour authoritie the other by waie of friendship and common charitie But as for Superiour authoritie In vvhat case of necessitie the Emperour may entermedle vvith matters of Faith and religion after the minde of Zabarella Zabarella alloweth the Emperour none ouer the Pope nor graunteth that he maie intermedle in Ecclesiastical causes but in an extreme necessitie to witte if there were two Popes at one time as there were when he wrote this Treatie whence you fetche your falsified sentences and neither would yeelde vnto the other nor the Cardinalles take order for the quiet gouernemente of the Churche in procuring a General Councel and if he saw the Antipape to geue ouer his vsurped Authoritie then the Emperour whose duetie is to defende the Catholique Faithe maie intermedle in Ecclesiastical causes saith Zabarella His wordes are these Cùmergo deficit Papa vel Cardinales Francis Zabarella de Schismate pontificuÌ„ qui subrogantur Papae in Congregatione Concilij vt dictum est in praecedenti quaestione ad ipsum Imperatorem qui pars post praedictos est praecipua Concilij spectat Congregatio Nec quenquam moueat quòd Imperator est Laicus vt ex hoc putet esse inconueniens quòd se intromittat de clericis Non enim semper prohibetur iudicare de clericis sed tunc prohibetur quando non subest ratio specialis Nam propter specialem rationem permittitur vt ratione feudi Hoc autem casu subest ratio specialis imo specialissima ne fides Catholica ruat quod nimium periclitatur diu permittendo pluralitatem in summo Pontificatu In quo maximè est Imperatoris praecipuam habet potestatem Nam permittere plures in Papatu est offendere illum fidei articulum vnam sanctam Catholicam c. Therefore when the Pope faileth or the Cardinalles who are nexte in roome vnto the Pope substituted to the Pope in assembling of a CouÌ„cel as it was said in the nexte question before the assembling of a Councel apperteineth vnto the Emperour who after the Pope and the Cardinalles is the chiefe parte Neither it ought to moue any man to thinke it inconuenient that the Emperour in that he is a laie man should intermedle with maters belonging to clerkes For he is not alwaies inhibited to iudge of Clerkes But then he is forbidden when there is no special cause For it is permitted for some special reason as in consideration of fealtie And in this cause there is a special yea a most special reason that the Catholique Faith come not to ruine bicause it is in great danger by long suffering of pluralitie in the Popedome that is to say of moe Popes then one In which the Emperour is the chiefe doer and he hath the chief power For to permitte many Popes in the Popedome is to offende that article of the Faith I beleeue one holy Catholique and Apostolike Churche By this and the whole discourse that Zabarella your authour maketh there it appeareth M. Iewel that the Emperour hath not the authoritie you pretende but in that case of extreme necessitie And by your aduocate in the Lawe if he had not
benne halfe in a phrenesie you might haue learned L. NaÌ„ ad ad ea ff de legibus ff de regu lis iuris that ex ijs quaeraro accidâ—nt lages non fiunt of those thinges that happen seldome lawes are not made And Quae propter necessitatem recepta sunt non debent in argumentum trahi those thinges that are receiued for necessitie ought not to be drawen to an argument or president to be followed Wherefore â—â—ither vpon the doinges of the Emperours in that great and lamentable schisme of the Church neither vpon Zabarella you can builde that Bishoppes may ordinarily be conuented before a ciuil Magistrate in ecclesiastical causes But sir seing you thought it conuenient for your purpose to vse the authoritie of Zabarella although you haue fowly falsified and misreported his wordes tel vs by what reason you maie refuse his authoritie if we can allege it against you He saith in the same treatie that you allege Papa est vniuersalis Episcopus Zabarella M. Ievvels ovvne doctor alleged agaiÌ„st M. Ievvel Papa non habet superiorem Papa habet iurisdictionem potestatem super omnes de iure Sedes Apostolica errare non potest The Pope is the vniuersal Bishop The Pope hath no superiour The Pope hath iurisdiction and power ouer al by lawe The Apostolique See can not erre Why admitte you not this Is it reason that you should admitte an authours saying the whiche he spake and allowed in a case of necessitie for auoiding of a greater danger and not admitte the same authours saying in the same treatie whiche he speaketh according to receiued and approued doctrine of the Catholique Church Aske your aduocate L. Si quis Cod. de testibus and he wil tel you that reason and lawe faith That si quis vsus fuerit testibus ijdemque testes producantur aduersus eum in alia lite non licebit personas eorum excipere If one vse witnesses in a cause and the same witnesses be brought against him in an other controuersie it is not lawful for him to make exception against their personnes And if either reason or lawe could preuaile where heresie hath entred you should not onely admitte this but also that whiche he saith in an other place â—â—â—â—stas 〈…〉 immediate pendat à Deo Ioan. 21. per illa verba Pasce 〈…〉 Papa habet potestatem supra omnes quic omnes sunt â—â—â—s Papae vicem Dei gerit in terris Zabarella in ClemeÌ„t de SenteÌ„t reiudicata cap. pastoralis Ibidem in Clement de magistris cap. Inter. de Sentent excommu cap. ex frequeÌ„tib The power of the Pope dependeth immediatly of God by those wordes feede my sheepe The Pope hath power ouer al bicause al be sheepe The Pope beareth the person of God in earth For he spake this with as good aduise as he spake the other And this is generally allowed and that but in a case Wherefore if his authoritie be good in the one ought it not to be good in the other Now therefore M. Iewel I reporte me to your indifferent iudgement how true it is that you saie that a Prince or a ciuil magistrate maie lawfully cal a Priest before him to his owne seate of iudgement and that a Bishop maie be conuented before the Magistrate as his lawful and superiour iudge in ecclesiastical causes No one example or sentence that ye haue yet alleged doth proue that vaine assertion of yours Neither could ye haue had any aduantage by them if ye had truely reported their wordes and declared the circumstances why and wherefore they were spoken But that liked you not Wherefore referring your corruption and false dealing in these matters of weight to the judgement of God and examination of the indifferent and wise I conclude against you with S. Augustine S. Ambrose S. Chrysostome and al other Catholique Fathers that it is not conuenient Extr. de Maiorit obed cap. 2. in marg nor lawful for a king to cal priestes before him to his owne seat of Iudgement as their superiour in ecclesiastical causes As for the note glosed in the Decretalles which ye bring to proue that priestes are exempted from the Emperours iurisdiction by the Popes policie and the princes consent and not by the worde of God we tel you that suche glosed notes declare you to be a very Gloser and argue that your stoare is farre spent when you rest vpon such marginal glosed notes Were it graunted which in no case we graunt that Bisshoppes and priestes were exempted from the Emperours iurisdiction in ecclesiastical causes onely by the Popes policie and consent of princes for confirmation whereof they haue made diuers lawes and geuen out large priuileges yet these lawes standing vnreapealed and priuileges vnauthorized they can not be conuented lawfully before the ciuil magistrate For it standeth not with the Maiestie of a prince to doo against his owne lawes and breake the priuileges by him selfe graunted to others before he hath with as mature aduise and consideration reuoked them as he did first graunte them That the Canonistes are wrongfully charged by the Apologie with teaching the people that Simple Fornication is no sinne The 15 Chapter The wordes of the Apologie Defence Pag. 357. They be the Popes ovvne Canonistâ—â— vvhiche haue taught the people that Fornication betvven single foâ—â—â— iâ— no sinne Harding A sclaunder vttered by the Apologie against the Canonistes not recanted in the Defence touching the thing but only touching the errour of the name IN my CoÌ„futation I saie that this is a greuous offence and worthy to be pounished in processe I saie to the makeâ—s of the Apologie How proue ye it They allege for it one Iohn de Magistris How be it M. Iewel hath recanted that errour and confesseth him selfe to haue ben deceiued For he graunteth it was Martinus de Magistris whom he meant or should haue meant He should doo wel to recant diuers other the like his errours For he hath not only ben deceiued by his note bookes or his Notegatherers in naming Iohn de Magistris for Martinus de Magistris but also in the names of sundrie other menne as it shal be declared in the nexte Chapter But touching the sclaunder of the Canonistes if Martinus de Magistrâ—â— had so taught yet the matter is not cleare for he wâ—â— no Canoniste but a Schoole Doctor of Diuinitie Againâ— he â—â—â—â—ht not the people as our Maisters of the Apologie â—â—e but onely wrote of that matter after the Scholastical manner from vnderstanding whereof the peoples simple capacitie is farre of Wel let these three errours Lyes or ouersightes be â—inâ—â—ed at Hitherto the Canonistes are not touched but sclaundered What shal we answer for Martinus de Magistris Certainely neither that Doctour taught either the people or any other person that vngodly and false Doctrine Certaine it is that in this Treatie De Temperantia quaestione 2. he taught the contrarie where