as Potest as vicaria delegata delegate and by commission to this end that establishing the peoples dominion they may vse them at their assignement for the subuersion of the King as their places alledged do manifest and is yet more amplie auouched by another Iesuite saying that If any King Catholike shall prooue an Heretike it is reason for the people to depose him because this power is in the people which is deriued vnto the King from the people This is that position which we called rebellious and yet behold Abyssus abyssum inuocat one depth of rebellious disloyaltie in deposing doth drawe one another of crueltie in murthering their Kings where the French yeeldeth them Power of life and death ouer their Soueraigne To ouerthrow this many-headed beast by weapons borowed from your owne men The Confutation There is one honest Frier that dare aduenture to light a candle to discouer the murderous for speaking of the power of and by Election Though there be saith he in the people a freedome of Election yet after they haue chosen their King they haue no more power to remoue the yoke but stand in necessitie of subiection This man was but a Frier and therefore peraduenture in your Synods may not haue any definitiue sentence which you say is proper to Bishops Here is therefore one of this order Bishop Cunerus who from the holie writ doth mainely impugne your former assertion Some there be saith he who imagine that the authoritie of Princes dependeth vpon the courtesie of people as to thinke that they who gaue consent to choose Kings haue likewise now a power to depose them But the blessed Apostles who by the holie Ghost were inabled to search the mysteries of God haue more profoundly enquired into the foundation of the state and autoritie of Kings * Saint Peter saith he entering into this argument doth thus admonish Christians Be ye subiect vnto the ordinance of man whether to the King as to the more excellent or his messengers sent from him to the punishment of wicked and praise of the godly so is the will of God as free and not as hauing libertie as a cloake of maliciousnes but as the seruants of God And S. Paul There is no power but of God and whosoeuer resisteth the power resisteth the ordinance of God c. From whence he inferreth Though all meanes whereby Kings come to the Crownes be not commanded of God yet whatsoeuer meanes they vse whether by Election Succession or inuasion whensoeuer they are by consent of the Kingdome once established this is the ordinance of God and henceforth he as sent from God is to rule and people to obey the Apostle saying of the people It is necessary to be subiect This witnesse your selfe called for saying As saith Cuâ—erus so I thus saith Cunerus You may not in equitie refuse him For this was iustice in the Gouernor when S. Paule said I appeale to Caesar to answere And to Caesar shalt thou goe Yet if he be not sufficient behold a Iesuite will pleade our cause Though it be better to haue a more wise King then a simple yet when he whom we haue is but sillie then may he no more be depriued of his Kingdome then an vnlearned Prelate of his Bishoprick otherwise the state of mortall men should be exposed to rapines and bloodshed But to returne to the Oracles of God S. Peter called mans entrance into the kingdome by consent of people mans creation vpon this ground it may be your Reinolds did descant where he called the King mens creature as though he could see in mans election nothing but man whereas S. Peter in the same place saith to man creating Be ye subiect vnto the creation of man Propter Deum for the Lords sake in the creature beholding God Why S. Paule will satisfie Because the powers that are be ordeined of God Rom. 13. So that mans creation is but the bodie of soueraintie Gods ordinance in that meanes is the very soule thereof and ought in all Christians to be the life of loyall subiection The Answer retorted In the last place I must make bold to strike you with your owne sword There is no King to rule say you where there is no people to be ruled for King and people be Relata All this is most true Well now our Question is whether after the peoples election of a King the power to depose a King remainestill in the people you affirme we denie it strengthned by this your Argument froÌ„ relation originall thus The power of gouernment resteth rather in the Ruler then in the partie to be ruled But a King is elected to rule the people Ergo the rule remaineth not in the people but in the King In coniugall societie before the contract the woman is free but after contract à relatis now his wife there followeth a necessitie of subiection not to be dissolued * Let the wife be subiect Notwithstanding in your conclusion you bewray this modestie to exact Learning in your Accuser and shew none in your Answere Thus much of your people now we proceed orderlie to the Pope CHAP. XI The Discouery Secondly of the Pope TO auouch his preeminence these men goe beyond the Moone as first Bozius The Pope the head of the Church hath power in all temporall causes and States The moderate Answerer It will be obiected from the second Reason that Catholikes hold the Pope head of the Church in ciuill power and also ouer Kings circa omnia temporalia Therefore he may depose Princes and command Subiects to take armes against them once excommunicate First I answere The Reply But first I aske why would you answere this in discourse of the first Reason and omit it here in this second where being his proper place you had reason to answere I should thinke it was for loue of breuitie but that your manifold superfluous repetitions doe except against it yet I rather thinke it was your modestie least that my accusation and your Answere as different colors iointly examined might one illustrate the other that to be constant and iust this a meere fugitiue But be not offended we must compare them seeking your Answere where it is seeing we cannot find it where it should be your first and second and third must be discouered in the reason following What say you to the present point Haue Popes prerogatiue ouer Kings in causes temporall as of autority to depose them The very moderate Answerer I answere for all Catholikes in generall to the maine Obiection that Henricus Victor Iohannes de Turrecremata Couorâ—â—ius the common opinion of Schooles do teach that there is no such temporallor regall power in Popes ouer Princes in ciuill affaires And againe These Autors do not say that this ciuill power is simplie and absolutely subiect to the Papall autoritie And yet againe The discouerer cannot sinde any such
power soueraigne ouer Kings challenged by Popes against which he so much inueigheth The Reply The summe of your Answere is that the generall doctrine of Papists is to denie all temporall and ciuill power absolutely ouer Kings and that no Pope did euer challenge it And yet behold before your eyes in this Reason to which you now would answere your owne Doctor Bozius produced against you who in his booke inscribed Of the temporall monarchie of the Church and dedicated to the last Pope Clement the 8. is so absolute for this absolute temporall iurisdiction of the Pope aboue all estates whatsoeuer that he extendeth it throughout the vniuersall world euen Ouer all Infidels to punish them for some causes with corporall punishments And he challengeth herein the consent of Andraeas Syluester Antoninus and other Doctors Canonists yea also which you denied that it can be showen Pope Innocentius doth challenge it A doctrine so common that Bellarmine doth confesse that Aluarez Syluester and many others do affirme it Furthermore because you say Your Discouerer cannot show c. I must yet discouer a greater and grosser consent amongst your Schoole in this point Alexander Carerius Patauinus of late hath writ the title of his booke is this Concerning the power of the Pope of Rome against all wicked Polititians and heretikes of this time This sure will be something to the purpose say on This opinion namely that the Pope by the lawe of God hath most full power throughout the world euen in all temporall or ciuill causes I defend and hereunto the common Schooles of Diuines do subscribe He numbreth two and twentie Authors and among others one called The illuminated Doctor and an other called Celsus by interpretation High or Aloft and therfore insignes him with Verè Celsus as truly so named and so truly he may be if we iudge him by the loftinesse of his style and coÌ„clusion which only this Carerius doth therfore expresse as being more eminent then any other Such and so great is the spirituall and ciuill power of the Pope saith Celsus that as Plato to one asking what God was answered he is not man not heauen not good but what more excellent so if any shall demaund what the Pope is by a kind of resemblance one may warily answere he is no Duke no King nor Emperour but more excellent What can this be else seeing God only is for excellencie called King of Kings and Lord of Lords but an other God Warily answered but wickedly Next he assumeth for autoritie of his defence The common iudgement of Canonists all building this opinion vpon the Decrees of Popes As if they should say if we be deceiued in our opinion coÌ„cerning the Popes iurisdiction then the Popes haue deceiued vs. What is that which Pope Innocentius decreed That God created two great lights the Sunne to rule the day and the Moone to gouerne the night signifying two dignities the spirituall which is the Papall and the temporall belonging to to the Emperour like the Moone Yet so that there is as great difference of excellencie betwixt the Emperour and the Pope as betwixt the Moone and the Sunne What can you inferre from hence That as the Moone hath no light but that it borroweth of the Sunne so the Emperour hath no power which is not depending of the Pope Thus Pope and popish by too much gazing on the Moone are become lunatike who by a spirit of pride carnally peruert the literall sence of the holie Ghost as it is Proued And the whole doctrine will be plainely confuted in the Confutation Wherefore seeing that this temporall vniuersall iurisdiction of the Pope some Papists with great consent euen from Popes haue proclaimed all which you haue vnlearnedlie denied which will yet be further confirmed in the next Chapter learne henceforth a necessarie point of modestie not to auouch a negatiue No one Papist saith so till you haue read sufficiently what they say Thus much of the temporall power popish considered directly Now must we enquire how it may concerne him indirectly CHAP. XII The discouerie of the common doctrine of the Iesuitically opinionated THat the Pope hath power in temporall causes This is true saith Bellarmine vnderstood vndirectly as it may auaile for the spirituall good In briefe This supremacie of the Pope saith Stapleton is a doctrine to be holden of all Christians vpon paine of damnation and separation from the Church of God The moderate Answerer But Catholikes defend only a spirituall as that is which they claime in temporals in ordine ad Deum that is for Gods cause and is not to vse the Disputers words A ciuill power Soueraigne ouer Kings directly but only a spirituall preheminence The Reply Vse my words but abuse not my meaning to make the Reader thinke I only intreated of the power temporall ouer Kings directly whereas in the Discouerie there is expresse mention of the temporall iurisdiction challenged of Papists both directly and also indirectly both which are hereafter confuted Here only we are to explaine them and to shew how both of them challenge a power in the Pope at his discretion to depose Kings This hath bene manifested in the former now it will appeare in the second which you forsooth His Maiesties most loyall Subiect do now mainteine namely A power spirituall say you in temporall causes as it may be behoofull for Gods cause And how that is meant your Bellarmine doth interpret Protestants denie saith he that the Pope hath any temporall or politike iurisdiction and power ouer Kings by the law of God as to be able to command Kings much lesse to depose them from their thrones and dispose of their Kingdomes But the common consent of Catholike Diuines is that indirectly and mediatly that is so farre as it may concerne the spirituall good of the Church the Pope hath a supreme power euen in temporall causes to put downe Kings and bestow their Kingdomes And yet you denie That he hath directly any temporall gouernment by the lawe of God A spirituall cosenage as is proued by arguments in the Consutation only in this place to be exemplified You may peradueÌ„ture remember that King whose name I haue forgot who being desirous to decree something coÌ„trary to that lawe whereunto he was sworne required counsell in this case Sir saith his counseller the Lawe directly forbids you this yet there is another law which permits the King to do what he list A dangerous State where the Kings lust is his law Now how is it in this your controuersie to say the Pope can directly iudge and depose Kings O no you will not For say you we denie This opinion saith Bellar. is the first extremitie as though you would acknowledge that to be directly a ground of treason yet you hold it lawfull When the Pope shall thinke it beâ—oofull for the spirituall good then
what Quacksaluers be you to offer a salue which cannot possibly cure the sore I haue digressed a little but I hope not transgressed for this point was you see pertinent I returne to you our moderate Answerer and we will now ioyne issue in the next Reason CHAP. XV. The Discouerie in the fourth Reason WHen the King is established in his throne by the common consent of the Kingdome whosoeuer shall manackle the hands of his subiects detracting all obedience may iustly by order of lawe be challenged and condemned for a disordred and rebellious person But all popish priests do dissolue the oath of obedience to all Protestant Gouernors Ergo. The Minor proued by Their Positions First one of their Bishops resolueth that As soone as a Christian King becomes hereticall forthwith people are freed from subiection Secondly their Cardinall As long as the Prince continueth excommunicate the subiect is freed from the oath of subiection By whom are they freed By the Pope saith the lesuit who vpon iust cause hath iust power to absolue from oathes both himselfe and all others Sometime the Prince is personallie excommunicate what then Then saith their Lawyer Subiects are freed from their allegiance and all his hereticall Assistants to be rooted out and their land to be exposed to be possessed of Strangers Catholikes But how if he be not excommunicate by name yea what though not excommunicate If saith an other his heresie be publikely knowne there needeth no pronunciation of the sentence of Excommunication So that saith the Iesuite Subiects may lawfullie denie him obedience How so For the euidence of the crime saith their whole schoole doth inferre a sentence of condemnation because as the more common opinion defineth there must we vnderstand the Pope his will is to haue him excommunicate whom vpon the knowledâ—e of his fault he would excommunicate Say Father Creswell is this true It is certaine and of faith auouched by the vniuersall voice of Schooles Satisfie vs yet in one question more Suppose that the Protestant Prince haue a iust quarrell what then No warre can be lawfullie denounced or waged by the Queene being excommunicate by name though otherwise in it seâ—fe it were most iust because her power is vnlawfull The very moderate Answerer This is the first Proposition I grant vnto but how false and standerous his Assumption is I haue proued before Secondly all his Autorities he bringeth are priuate men not able to make a dogmaticall principle or publike position againe they intreate of such as be nominatim excommunicate of which sort there is no Protestant Prince neither can there be any iust feare of the Popes generall proceeding herein except any Protestant Prince should be incited by some such vnchristian spirits as this Discouerer seemeth to be possessed with to exceede all others in persecuting Catholikes and offering indignities to the Church of God The Reply It seemeth you were now in your naturall choller because in this one Answere you do vilifie your friends threaten your Soueraigne traduce your Aduersarie and in conclusion condemne your owne ghostlie fathers Your friends to call these your Doctors Cardinall Tollet Reinolds Symancha Creswell Stapleton Azorius Panormitan Greg of Valentia Bannes and such like and the most of them most publike and eminent Doctors your late Romish Church did glorie in and autorized with the common consent of Ordinaries priuileges of Collegies and your vniuersall schoole to call I say such like priuate men and not be able to oppose one priuate man of that sect against them doth argue a spirit of rare modestie and singular insufficiencie Your Soueraigne If he shall offer as you misconster it to persecute and to cut off the most capitall enemies to his state and gangrenes of their countrey then The Pope c. O sir â—emember your selfe One of his Maiesties loyall Subiects c. This is not modestie but hypocrisie Your Aduersarie The Discouerer forsooth an vnchristian spirit who doth discouer only the hooke of treason whereby sillie soules are catched and herein not chargeable with misieporting his Autors desirous to recall you to the ancient truth of Christian subiection and if it be possible to sauing health And yet is thus censured as an inciter of his Maiestie against Romish Priests whom their owne positions and practises do proclaime publikely to be persons seditious Your Fathers for this proposition Whosoeuer shall manacle the hands of Subiects denying obedience to their established Kings must be iudged a rebellious person you say you Grant now it hath bene proued that not only these aboue named Iesuites but also your Popes haue bene principals in these kinds of Treasons both against the Emperour Henry the fourth and also the mirror of all princely wisedome Elizabeth our late Soueraigne And therefore in your conclusion you infold your Popes in the roote of these rebellions These Popes we haue discouered by their practises as for example CHAP. XVI The Discouerer in the Practise FIrst Pope Gregorie the seauenth alias Hildebrand beginneth his pageant We by Apostolicall autoritie do absolâ—e all from their oathes which they haue giuen to persons excommunicate And another Gregorie vseth the like tenor We absolue c. in the same case Lastly Pius Quintus their successor in place but superior in malice We command all Subiects saith he c. and absolue them from the faith they haue plight with Elizabeth their Queene The moderate Answerer First to Gregorie the seauenth who as this man vrgeth absolued all from obedience to Excommunicates I answere for all Catholikes in generall that this nothing concerned Protestants neither any heretikes but only such as he had other quarrels and contentions against The Reply True the histories of those times shew that the Popes were after some 600. yeares after Christ alwayes quarrellous and according to that proper name of Gregory the seauenth now mentioned called Hildebrand the very firebrands of Christendome But how do you satisfie for Hildebrand I grant say you that he that dissolueth the obedience of Subiects to their Soueraignes is iustlie accompted seditious Here you cannot denie but that Pope Gregorie the seauenth absolued all from obedience to excommunicates You know what followeth Ergo the Pope is condemned as one guiltie of high treason This is commendable modestie which is voide of partialitie To the second example you answere The moderate Answere But he vrgeth the Glosse of Gregorie the ninth and citeth the Decret where there is no such matter or any thing like vnto it I commend your diligence and wish you were as modest to acknowledge all my other truths as I am to confesse this my only escape which the importunitie of the time and not the exigence of examples did occasion For besides other examples I might haue insisted vpon that Bull of Paulus the 3. against King Henry the 8. which differeth not from the tenor of the decree alledged Wee
obedience and then you will easily vnderstand how largely you may become trecherous First the Popes Bull of Excommunication against our late Queene was nailed publikely vpon the Bishop of Londons gate but this gentle Bul of obedience doth without any voice range secretly we know not where it may be as the Popes Breue in Garnets pocket and named to be by them who are not because they do equiuocate Secondly the Popes Bull of obedience is so strictly commaunded as alwaies limited within the crooked hookes of this Parenthesis Rebus sic stantibus or Donec vires habeant that is Till there be oportunitie or Pro hac vice for this time Whereof our English State hath had too large experience For to insist onely vpon the present when the oportunitie of surprizing the King Queene and Prince was plotted by the Disciple of Machiauell then the Pope hath two Priests Watson and Clearke to dissolue that knot of obedience when after the oportunitie of that Sudden blow against the whole State had possessed the malignant then there is presently at hand a Prouinciall and his Priest subordinates to kindle the minds of their Agents hellishly to consume and swallow vp both obedience and all the persons to be obeyed That his Maiestie so gratiously wished there might be some meanes of compounding dissentions and an vniuersall mariage betwixt temporall peace and truth of Religion proceeded from his most Christian heart teaching rather what you shold then what you will do who deny to remit any Romish superstition though it sauour of meere noueltie As is apparant in the Oration of Gasper in the Councel of Trent where question was concerning the vse of the Sacrament in both kinds according to the institution of our Sauiour Christ and the vse Ecclesiasticall for a thousand yeares in Gods Church did resolue notwithstanding no but why Ne errasse videamur His Maiestie saith All nouelties taken away you say We wish no more But if you would haue bene correspondent to his Maiesties wish you should haue answered We wish no lesse But your modestie would neuer yet grant that there were any nouelties in that Church where notwithstanding there is nothing else but daily brewing new liquor hopped with Wormwood His Maiestie hath expressed his meaning to call the Romish Church our Mother Church as that Church Romish may now call Hierusalem but when both mothers will be parricides to murther their children which speake against Idolatrie their spirituall adulterie they may be called mothers in name in deede monsters You cite Bellarmine and omit this his sentence It is not lawfull to suffer a King who is an Heretike when he shall labour to draw his people to heresie To iudge hereof whether he draw his subiects to heresie or no is the proper office of the Pope I suppose there is no Infidell in the world endued with any opinion of God but he would labor to draw his subiects to his opinion Now then the cause of our King persisting to be a Protestant is no better then his Predecessor for it is yeelded to the Pope both to iudge who is an Heretike and when he shall so iudge then according to his Libet to send from Rome comes a Non licet tolerare Regem Will your modestie neuer leaue deluding vs by pretended allegations of Iesuites as here to that purpose to giue hope of reconciliation whereas onely by the insolencie of Iesuites all such hope is debarred As is plaine by this forecited Iesuite for whereas that most graue and learned Cassander honored of two Emperors for his singular learning and pietie did teach that Emperors should indeuour a reco◅ion betwixt Papists and Protestants because saith he Protestants hold the Articles of the Creed and are true members of the Church although they dissent from vs in some particular opinions The grand Iesuite doth answer that This iudgement of Cassander is false for Catholikes cannot be reconciled with Heretikes heretically meaning Protestants CHAP. XVIII The Discouerie VVE haue alreadie vnderstood how they forbid to Kings now will we also examine how they inforce violence And in this case we argue thus The fift Reason Whosoeuer suggesteth a doctrine of forcible deposing of Princes from their thrones are therein manifestly rebellious But all Popish Priests defend violent deposing of Kings and Emperors Ergo Their Positions Costerus This power saith he of deposing Kings of their Crownes and Emperors of their dignities in behalfe of the good of the Church was alwaies peculiar to the Pope who hath no lesse authoritie as Christs Vicar ouer Christians then the hireling hath ouer his beasts So the Pope hath authoritie ouer the Emperor saith Molina because the Fmperor is but the Popes minister and is to vse his temporall sword onely at his becke But what if Kings will not inthrall themselues to the Popes authoritie It is not lawfull for Christians saith the Cardinall to tolerate any King who draweth his Subiects vnto heresie But subiects ought saith Sanders to indeuour to set vp another in his place Yea they ought saith Creswell to expell him out of his kingdome as the enemie of Christ. An vndoubted doctrine among the learned and agreable to Apostolicall truth Yea which is more Although the Pope saith Bannes should tolerate an hereticall King yet may the Commonwealth remoue him And yet behold a greater mysterie of this iniquitie then all these for suppose that the King deposed shall be willing to be reconciled to the Church Yet notwithstanding saith Simancha he may not recouer his Crowne The moderate Answerer Let vs grant this Proposition Whosoeuer c. The Reply Let vs grant We know not by this whether you grant it by Asseueration to allow it or onely by way of Concession for disputation sake as not to grant it This your Art of answering would be discouered for of one Maior Proposition in your 4. Chapter you say For this present I grant this Maior and yet after in the fift Chapter of another Maior This is the first Proposition I grant vnto Wherefore sophisticating in this manner Let vs grant deluding a Propositiō which discouereth so manifestly a doctrine rebellious will somewhat impeach your moderation of a guiltie disposition To the matter The moderate Answerer Not one of these particular Authors defend violent deposing of Kings The Reply Though I know your deuotion can dispence with lying if with an intent to couer the leprosie of your Sect yet me thinketh your discretion might haue taught you to vse that Art where it should not be so transparent as that any one of small reading might easily conuince you For what not one of your sect teach violence First your Frenchman The Nobles must depose the King as Iehu did Iezabell there was violence Your Parsons As Dauid did Goliah violence Your Card. Allane My Lords and deare Countrimen for Gods loue fight against the
mischiefe because of the euent Quia talem meruerit habere Saluatorem because it begat so gracious a Sauiour you likewise may call this vnhappie Stratageme because therby your mischiefe was preuented malice discouered then you are no better then a painted sepulcher outwardly presenting vs with hieroglyphicall showes of fellowship and inwardly full through your hatefull wishes of dead mens bones Yet I thinke you may presume that not any Priest will be found innocent in so vile an act meaning till he be found but many are found and conuicted God who hunteth out the vniust person maruellously by the diuersitie or rather contrarietie of their languages confounding them as in the dissolution of Babell each one of them impeaching another A iust presumption that scarce any Priest is innocent The moderate Answerer And it is certaine it serueth not to his purpose to proue all Priests to intend such things For first the chiefest Priest the Pope had absolutely forbidden all disobedience to his Maiestie by these words Quia Papa iubet the obedience and prohibet the disobedience which the chiefe Superior of Priests in England in spiritual things as the Arch-priest had receiued and promulged the same commaund long since in August last And vpon this first notice of this pretended wickednesse condemned it by his particular letters for an intollerable and desperate fact against the order of holy Church against the prescript of generall Councell against the commaundement of the Pope Then if the Priests of England will acknowledge the Archpriest for their Superior at home or the Pope at Rome as all both regular and other must do neither all the Priests of this nation nor any one except disobedient to his Superior was guiltie of this Conspiracie The Reply And yet behold your Superior a Iesuiticall Priest is found guiltie of this Conspiracie but the frame of your Argument doth infold in it a Sorites thus The inferior Priests are subiect to their Superior the Anchpriest this Archpriest is subiect to the what is there a Chiefe aboue Arch chiefe Priest the Pope But the Pope hath commaunded dutifull subiection to the Arch-priest to commaund subiection to the inferior Priests Ergo all inferior Priests except they will be disobedient to their Superior will be faithfull Subiects Wherein first I do obserue that in this gradation of your obedience to Kings the highest staire is the Pope But the true Disciples of Saint Peter did soare higher Propter Dominum to God and his word And in the descent the last degree you make is a Priest as though you would suffer Laymen in a blind zeale with an intent to aduantage the Catholike cause to practise any vile act and you stand to giue ayme that in the successe you may cry Well shot but when they misse the Actors may perish and you cry out O an vnhappie fact Otherwise by this series causarum it must as probably follow that the Pope and Archpriest and other inferior Priests are guiltie of this vile practise viz. Euery Romish Catholike doth acknowledge a spirituall subiection to their Priests euery Priest to his Superior the Superior to his Generall the Pope But many of the most deuâ—ute Romish haue bin found guiltie of this gracelesse attempt Ergo the Priests ergo the Superior ergo the Pope Or else the Pope failed to giue his prohâ—bet and restraint of disobedience to the Archpâ—iest or the Archpriest neglected to giue commaund to the inferior Priests or your other Priests foreslowed to forewarne the Laymen or which is the truth you are but spirituall Polititians bearing the world in hand that none of your mischiefes can be proued by vs till by the vpshot they be proued vpon vs. And then those Priests and traitors whom you now call vnhappie Watson and Clearke will be of better esteeme Thus hath your modestie made good gradation for the break-necke of your cause CHAP. XXII The Discouerie in the seuenth Reason SEeing It is in a maner all one to commit a villanie and to commend it we may argue that whosoeuer shall iustifie acts of treasons and parricides are not vnguiltie of the same crimes but all Priests do iustifie such hainous paricides Ergo. The Minor proued by their Positions practicall The famous Cardinall and publike Reader in Rome saith Many Popes haue iustly deposed many Princes Our Countâ—iman Card. Alane Reinolds Parsons inciting subiects to armes against their Prince do perswade by examples merely rebellious as resisting of K. Iohn of Edward the second of Richard the second of Henry the sixt as presidents to be followed The Author of the booke of Deposing Henry King of Fraunce doth sing a Gaudeamus for his death And againe Allane approueth the perfidious rendring vp Douentore and encourageth the English Mal-contents to ioyne their forces with the Spanish inuasion So the Colledge of the Iesuites at Salamane approued the insurrection of Tyrone And do not the most of that sort canonize in their conceits all such Popish ones as haue bene executed for treasons The moderate Answerer I grant the Maior and denie his Minor That all Popish Priests c. And haue proued that all such assertions are most false and slanderous The Reply And I haue proued from your owne Authors that they are the doctrines which you granting the Maior must confesse to be truly rebellious and now further confirme it by many examples Answer them in order and because in the most you haue bene extrauagant be intreated in this seuenth Reason to be regular The very moderate Answerer He will maintaine his sentence because Bellarmine saith Many Popes haue worthily depriued many Princes of their regall authoritie The examples be in Leo 3. Fred. 1. in Otho 5. and Childericke King of France to the which I haue answered before and sincere dealing would haue alledged the true causes which knowne proue a flat disparitie in the matter The Replie Whatsoeuer cause there was to wish any wicked Emperor to be deposed yet was there neuer cause to authorize the Pope to depose him which is plentifully proued But Popes you will say did formerly depose Emperors as though from a case de facto that is of an act of deposing you would conclude a case ex iure that is inferre a right to depose This would be a welcome plea to malefactors of all kinds and in this kind not a little preiudice your Popes because Bellarmine being vrged with examples of many Emperors who did iudge and depose Popes doth returne this answer These Emperors indeed did so but by what right let them shew So we driuing out one naile with another oppose acts to acts and say But by what right Popes haue vnthronized Emperors let vs know For we shall hereafter shew that they had from God no such authoritie Where is now your moderation to require of vs acknowledgement of iust causes of Popes acts who you know proue that no cause can iustifie
most impious and sacrilegious whome your Lawyers vpon better intelligence do commend if this be a commendation As one that was too deuout and religious But you as it becometh a moderate Answerer answer nothing and thus in saying nothing bewray what you would or rather what you would not say CHAP. XXIIII The discouerie in the eight Reason THose Snakes that do naturally sting as soone as they get warmth may not be harboured in the bosome of the CoÌ„monwealth but all Popish Priests professe rebellions as soone as they can presume of their strength Ergo c. The Minor proued by Their Positions The Discouerie Bannes maintaineth this as a necessarie Parenthesis Subiects before sentence of Excommunication if they haue sufficient force may then depose their King This Father Creswell addeth as a warâ—e caution Let subiects take heed saith he that they haue competent strength in such a case otherwise it may preiudice the Catholike cause And lest any taking an Antidote against their poyson should obiect the condition of the Church of Christ primitiue and of the glorious Christians of those times who intended not killing of Kings the enemies of the Gospel but to be willingly killed for the profession of the holy faith marke with what vntemperate morter those men daube vp the consciences of Christians Then saith the French Defence the Christians did onely suffer because the Church was not yet perfect and because their enemies were more in number Againe It is commendable to suffer when thou canst not resist Which is the last miserable refuge of their desperate cause Whereunto notwithstanding their grand-Cardinall is glad to betake himselfe I answer saith he that Christians in auncient times did not beare armes and seeke to depose Emperors and Kings enemies to the Catholike faith because they wanted power Wherby the now Romish faith doth seeke to make wicked men excusable By this second conclusion saith Bannes the English Catholikes who now do not take armes against the Protestants are excused because they want sufficient power Hence we may perceiue that as long as Protestants liue safe they must acknowledge themselues beholden to the Popish faction because they haue no power to hurt them otherwise they may heare of them before they can see them peraduenture in such a manner as to Receiue a terrible blow and yet not know who did them the hurt Yea they must perish for Christian people saith Creswell are bound in conscience and hazard of their soules to resist whensoeuer they can make resistance The moderate Answerer To the first Proposition I say Concedo The Reply Concedo that is in English I grant it wo then and thrice woe to all your Priests who fall violently vpon it thereby to be conuinced rebellious Is it not so The moderate Answerer To the second Proposition I answer that if this be the opinion of Bannes he speaketh ignorantly in this case The Reply Bannes an Author easily to be had of all men I deliuer his name I cite the place I expresse his words apparantly signifying that this was Bannes opinion and yet your Answer is to speake moderately too moderate If this be say you the opinion of Bannes I alledge for the same opinion your English Iesuite Creswell your French Iesuite De iusta Abdicatione your Romish Iesuite Bellarmine al of the opinion of Bannes teaching Then and not before to take armes as soone as they haue strength And you answer to one onely saying If this be the opinion of Bannes Is this modestie This opinion say you is false this is honestie but then are your greatest Clearkes Blind and leaders of the blind as namely Creswell Felinus Caietan Tolet Sà Alane Bellarmine Saire and the present currant of Romish Schooles as hath bene proued This doctrine therefore being false which the supposed lights of your Religion do auerre I may well take vp the complaint of our Sauiour against your Church If the light that is in thee be darknes ô how great is that darknes In the last place you name Gregorie the 13. for the contrarie but all you could do only name him opposing names to expresse writings shadowes to things O moderatorem These are but Positions Now followeth CHAP. XXV Their Practise The Discouerie IN the yeare 1580. when Campion and Parsons came into England they procured a dispensation from the Pope that al Papists in England notwithstaÌ„ding the ExcoÌ„munication of the Queen might professe a large obedience in al teÌ„poral causes but with this addition Rebus sic stantibus i. the case thus standing that is as the sequele did interpret till you waxe stronger For in the yeare 1588. when the Spanish Armado was a sloate when by doubling their strength they might presume the better then our Countriman Alane doth write an Admonition to the Nobilitie of England making his booke the Popes Nuncio to expound his former Parenthesis Though the Pope saith he hath tolerated obedience vnto the Queene in temporall conditions yet now our holy Father Xistus Quintus doth discharge all men of their faith and loyaltie vnto her This is the Popes common guise when he doubteth his faction shall be ouermatched then to inioyne obedience but it is onely in policie to gaine his souldiers a breathing as Clement the late Pope dispensed with the Irish for their fidelity to the Queene till that he had some confidence of Tyrones successe For then in the 20. of Ianuarie the yeare 1601. he writ a letter for incouragement Fili dilecte nobilis vir salutem c. My deare sonne all health c. After he calleth the Rebellion Sacrum foedus an holy league promising in the way of blessing an happy successe Deus pugnabit provobis conteret inimicos suos ante faciem vestram i. God will fight for you and tread his enemies vnder your feet But he God be thanked proued a false Prophet The moderate Answerer I answer that Cardinall Alane better acquainted with these affaires then any Protestant Writer relateth the Popes declaration for Catholike obedience to Queene Elizabeth without any restraint or limitation neither doth this man discouer where he findeth any such restricting clause The Reply It seemeth you are not acquainted with Cardinall Alane shall he be brought to auerre a Commission of subiection without restraint of Rebus sic stantibus the case so standing who Rebus sic non stantibus Anno 1588 raised English Recusants against the Queene prouoking them to fight I did not indeed discouer where I find any such restraining clause Here is one onely little clause Rebus sic stantibus that wanteth the Author and I must be suspected for a coyner you in all your Answers scarce alledge the expresse sentence of any one and yet challenge credit Such are the times which are fallen vpon vs and the oddes which by mens wilfull infatuation you haue obtained But I must produce my Author
your fellowship in faithful subiection But lingua quo vadis CHAP. XII The second kind of Recriminations against protestants is in the second wickednes of Aequiuocation YOu returne the guilt of this cursed doctrine vpon Protestants after two fashions Reasoning Railing 1. Reasoning if it may be called Reason which is mixed with most slanderous vntruths but you wold be heard speake with good will The moderate Answerer But to speake vnto this Obiector concerning Protestants proceedings in aquiuocating Luther vsed it at his pleasure now appealing to the Pope and after renouncing his authoritie Cranmer did often recant his errors by othes and again ofteÌ„ defend them counter fetted the hands of fiftie Conuocation men Fox himselfe being iudge to giue alying credit to his false cause but excused his false oaths by equiuocation Protestants of England in the dayes of K. Henrie the eight King Edward the sixt and Queene Elizabeth did equiuocate Such was the proceeding of P. Martyr and Bucer two great Professors of Diuinitie in Oxford and Cambridge Such was the Protestant adherents the Dukes of Northumberland and Suffalke and now the ordinary vse of Puritanes The Reply Luther Cranmer and others as they were perswaded that the Bishop of Rome was a faithfull Bishop did sweare obedience vnto him but afterwards being better illuminated did renounce him as Antichristian But if all recantation shall be thus censured then might you teach S. Augustine to retract his retractations But we wil not denie their infirmities for it hath pleased God to note the like in his chosen Saints in holy writ to the amplifying of the glory of his grace in their repentance and his pardon Yet was not there in these acts any equiuocation no more then in the acts of Peter who at the cock-crow went out of the high Priests hall and wept bitterly Thus Cranmerawaked by the call of the spirit of God executed vengeance vpon that hand which subscribed vnto your idolatrous seruice Burned it in the fire Then whatsoeuer his dissimulatioÌ„ was he thought it worthy of repentance not as you do think your equiuocation worthy of defence whereas in the truth of Christianitie there is the same punishment due to your equiuocating tongues which he executed vpon his dissembling hand O but Fox is witnesse that he defended himselfe by saying he did equiuocate I am sure you would not haue bene indebted vnto vs for the words if they had bene extant I found the place of M. Fox but no mention of equiuocation A monster not hatched in those times That which was obiected by Doctor Weston is there satisfied by M. Cranmer but you are more rigorous then auncient Aduersaries Yet further would I demand why Protestants turning from Papacie in the daies of King Edward must be condemned for such as haue equiuocated and Papists reuolting from Protestants in the raigne of Queene Mary must be thought to haue bene innocents The moderate Answerer Aequiuocating was practised by Caluine as the Lord of Canterbury and Beza and others record The Reply I reported this your accusation to my Lord of Canterbury and his Grace answered that you had wronged his testimony for I am sure said his Grace that this mystery in those times was not set abroach We also examined the book you alledge and find not one syllable for your purpose But what can we expect from you Patrons of lying equiuocation but in your accusations against Protestants equiuocating lies The most moderate Answerer in his railing Luther was so vile in this kind of equiuocating that neuer pillory mate behaued himselfe so as he did Cogging lying equiuocating dissembling was practised by Caluine who was banished for a dissembling seducer Cranmer periured himselfe and excused it by equiuocation The Reply In these your lying slanders you giue vs good hope that you will leaue your equiuocating lies because as though you detested the impietie thereof you vilifie it with these termes vile equiuocating adiudging it worthy the pillory matching it with cogging lying seducing periury This is yet very wel But we find that true which the Orator saith Natura suilena Euery man naturally is a band vnto himselfe Now you examining your Glycerie equiuocation in your aduersaries Luther Cranmer Caluine O then it is vile cogging lying seducing c. But beholding her in your owne embracements so In equiuocating there is nolie nor sinne Adulterous Iudah iudging of Thamar whom he had vnknowingly knowne hearing that she was brought in for an adulteresse gaue presently sentence Let her be burned but when by certaine euidences and pledges she made it knowne vnto him that if she were the woman he was the maÌ„ then he confesseth She is more righteous then I. There was some modestie in this but what moderation do you vse to adiudge equiuocation which you fasâ—ly faine to be in Protestants to the pillory and for your selues in whom the Leprosie raigneth to vse an Apologie Thus haue I iustified the innocent whose names your equiuocating spirit hath wickedly traduced for whom this might haue bin a sufficient answer that because you bring onely accusations without proofe If it be sufficient to haue accused who can be innocent For our Lord Iesus euen innocency it self was accused who of his grace turne you to repentance that these your slaunders be not layd vnto your charge THE THIRD PART Which is a Confutation of the principles of Romish doctrine in two points 1. The supreme head of Rebellion 2. The impious conceit of Aequiuocation Concerning the first this shall be our Conclusion The Pope hath no authoritie from God to depose Kings or dispose of their Kingdomes CHAP. I. Romish Obiections answered THIS pretended predominance of the Pope in temporall causes whether Directly or indirectly considered in the which diuision of gouerning the Romish schoole is at this day extremely diuided if it be from God it will sure plead Scriptum est and be warranted by Gods word either in the Olde or New Testament This point is discussed by the state of Gods church in the Olde Testament Obiect 1. In the generall view The Romish Pretence The high Priests in the Olde Testament were supreme in ciuill causes Ergo Ought to be in the New The Answer This is so contrary to the Story in holy writ that by the examples of Kings in ordering though neuer in ordeining of Priests the Iesuits are inforced to allow that the King was supreme ouer the Priest Their reasons Because sayth one in the Synagogne of the Iewes was a state rather earthly than heauenly so that in that people which was as in the body of a man consisting of body and soule the carnall part was more eminent Meaning the temporall to haue beene supreme Or as another sayth more conceitedly The Temporall state exceeded the Spirituall in the olde Law as much as the Substantiue is more excellent than the Adiectiue In both these we dislike their comparison and accept
Highnesse your grace in sparing me did not spare mee one whit but was pleased to call me whereby is signified a ciuill simplicity foole But let not my Lord from his earthly preeminence too hastily disdaine the Priests of God but in his princely wisedome for his cause whose seruants they be so rule ouer them that he denie them not due reuerence Heerein we finde another clause of the forme of our English oath Power ouer all persons euen the Pope himselfe yeelding that which is not due but only to a Superiour rule and requiring that which may be yeelded to an inferiour Reuerence or curteous respect For it is without doubt saith your Bishop Espencaeus that Gregorie did acknowledge a soueraigntie in Emperours ouer Priests We haue not yet passed the period of 600. yeares now therefore CHAP. X. We descend vnto the ages following of foure centuries more which may make vp a complete thousand yeres The Romish Pretence ANcient generall Councels were gathered not without the cost of good and Christian ones Emperours and were made by their consents for in those dâ—ues the Pope did make supplication to the Emperour that by his authority he would gather Synods But after those times all causes were changed because the Pope who is head in spirituall matters cannot be subiect in temporall Who would thinke this man could be a Papist much lesse a Iesuit how much lesse a Cardinall who thus disableth the title of the Pope granting to vs in these words After these times that is after 600. yeres the truth of purer Antiquity challenging Popes to be subiect vnto Christian Emperours And yet who but a Papist would as it were in despite of Antiquity defend the degenerate State saying After those times Popes might not be subiect in temporall matters As if he should haue said Thou gratious fauour of ancient Christian Emperours thou sound iudgement of ancient reuerend Fathers thou deuout subiection of ancient holy Popes in summe thou ancient purity and pure Antiquity adiew But we may not so bastardly reiect the depositum and doctrine of humble subiection which we haue receiued from our Fathers of the first 600. yeares and not so only but which as your Bercklay witnesseth the vniuersall Christian world embraced With common consent for a full thousand yeares Which is further confessed by others in the Chapters following CHAP. XI We further challenge the consent of successiue Antiquity in the currant of more than 1000. yeares after Christ wherein the Papallpretended Iurisdiction ouer Kings hath beene euidently controwled The Romish Pretence WE haue many examples of Emperours deposed by Popes as Leo Fredericke Henry 1. Freder 2. Otho 1. Lewis 3. Lewis 4. Henry 4. who was deposed by Gregory the 7. The Answer This argument The Popes did depose them from their temporall authority Ergo He had authority to depose them will iustifie all Pyrates and theeues in their spoiles all Tyrants in their vsurpations and will impeach this authority of the Pope which you would heereby defend For as your Cardinall doth confesse Many Emperours haue deposed many Popes Therefore from the act done to conclude a right of doing is no good argument Let vs therefore examine the worke by the square and not the square by the worke and by the law of doing trie the lawfulnesse of the thing done And first beyond the antiquity of a thousand yeares granted we find that the first who euer violently deposed an Emperour is the last of them whom you cite for authority of deposing them For I reade and reade saith your Otto Frisingensis and I find that Pope Gregory the 7. called Hildebrand in the yeare 1060. was the first Pope that euer depriued an Emperour of his regiment He was the first Pope saith your bishop Espencaeus who by making a new rent betwixt Kingdome and Popedome did raise force against the Emperiall diademe arming himselfe by his example excited other Popes against Princes excommunicate An act new you see and that it is also naught will appeare by the Actor Pope Greg. the 7. saith your Chronographer was excommunicate of the Bishops of Italy for that he had defamed the Apostolike See by Simony and other Capitall crimes There is an Instance giuen in the Donation of Constantine which proueth the Popes to haue beene notable forgerers The Romish Pretence Boniface Bishop of Rome so saith Carerius writ to Philip King of France to let him vnderstand that Philip ought to acknowledge vnto him both spirituall and temporall subiection and whosoeuer shall thinke otherwise saith Boniface we iudge and declare him an Hereticke The Answer May it be lawfull for vs to aske you by what law this temporall is assumed There is extant the Donation of Constantine saith Sanders sufficiently defended against all Heretickes Then belike this iurisdiction was from man and not from God Not so saith Carerius for it was rather a restitution than a Donation because he did but returne it being a Christian which he had receiued by Tyrannicall vsurpation being an Heathen therefore according to the iudgement of Turrecremata did not now so much giue it as publish it to be due to the Pope What was contained in this schedule There was heerin specified saith your Valla and so is the tenor of the Donation a conueiance of the kingdome of Sicily Naples all Italy France Spaine the Countries of the Germans and Britans and all the Western part of the world This is a goodly gift if it be good but I heare Luther say It is a large lie But you had rather heare your Doctors speake although they may seem partiall because yours The most ancient Historians authors of best credit saith your Canus and such as purposely and most diligently recorded the acts of Constantine and yet make no mention of any such Donation Which Pius the second Pope of Rome did as saith your bishop Balbus proue to be a slatte counterfet So that now your Popes temporall hold should be forfetted because it doth appeare that your Pastor in this challenge is a meere imposter The Donation is called palea and therefore as light chaffe I passe this ouer What is your next claime CHAP. XII Popish Arguments from Reason The first wherein they failing to prooue the temporall dominion of the Pope by succession endeuour to prooue it from successe The Romish Pretence THe Popes of Rome haue long since got not only possession but also dominion of the city of Rome a matter to be wondred at to see how after that the Emperours had many times sought to root out the Popes of Rome by force the Popes haue contrarily remoued the Emperours out of Rome the chiefe towne of their Empire and the property of Caesars pallaces and the city of Rome is without force come vnto the Pope This saith Sanders is the singer of God This saith Bellarmine is Gods prouidence The Answer As though
that which is without force might not be by craft or that they who pretend a forged donation of the Emperour Constantine as your own Pope called it before he was Pope would want art to delude his Successours It it not impossible for Pyrats to build a shippe for spoile and call it Gods prouidence Which wil so much rather appeare in this by how much more you labour to obscure it for Boniface the 9. as your owne Balbus noteth was the first who did assay to challenge there giment of Rome to himselfe which was in the yeare of Christ 1400. And this was but a forged challenge too as is euident because Emperour Charles the fift about the yeare 1550. was the first that bestowed the city of Rome and the Territories adioining vpon the Pope CHAP. XIII Their second Reason from a pretended right of Confirmation of Emperours to conclude a power of abrogation and deposing THe Emperour in his election is confirmed by the Pope and as the Popes minister is to vse the sword at his command and at his command be is deposed Proue this This is apparent by the oath that he taketh at his coronation Proue this The Pope himselfe saith of himselfe that the right and authority of examining the person elected saith he to be a King or Emperour belongeth to vs who doe anoint and consecrate him What will you prooue by this In euery vacancie of temporall States the Pope is Successour in the gouernment What yet more That when there ariseth any doubt betwixt the Emperour and a Prince the Pope is a competent Iudge yea when there is a cause or doubt betwixt the Pope and Emperour the Pope himselfe is Iudge The Answer You know the fable If the wolfe may iudge the sheep in the cause of troubling the water the wolfe wil be the guilty but the sheepe shal be the condemned But that you say The Emperour is not without the approbation of the Pope is false And your Consequents Ergo the Pope doth succeed in vacancy Ergo he may depose are both friuolous and preiudicious to your owne cause To the Antecedent your Bishop Lupoldus hath satisfied long sithence saying That hee that is chosen Emperour by the consent of the greater part of Electours needeth not either seeke or receiue any approbation of the Pope This doth your other learned bishop Balbus by many arguments determine and to this end produceth A publicke decree of the Emperour Lodouicke by the consent of all the Electours Ad â—…ging All such as deny the imperiali dignity to depend only of God as not needing the Popes confirmation to be seditious and presently they that deny it and whosoeuer consenteth vnto thâ—… to be reputed as guilty of high Treason and to incurre all the pâ—…s due to so great a guilt We proceed now to your consequent and first shew the noueltie of your claime For as the same your author witnesseth It was an ancient custome and of long continuance and till Adrian the Pope in the yeare of Christ 815. without contradiction that the Emperour did confirme the election of the Pope that none could be Pope without the approbation of the Emperour which custome after the death of Adrian was inforce till Pope Gregory the 9. which was in the yeare 1072. But now we see a new and contrary countenance of the state of Christendome which the Lawiers deplore as miserable and complaine that the Emperour lost his priuiledge by cosenage and deceit c. How it was we leaue the case to be disputed among your Romists that heere is a change of Antiquity it is not denied either by your Balbus or Carerius or any other Hence we argue That if power of approbation of the election of the Emperour do conferre a temporall authority Emperiall vpon the Pope then when the Pope was confirmed by Emperours there was in the Emperour a spirituall authority ouer the Pope if you will deny our latter consequent then you teach vs to deny your former CHAP. XIIII Their third Argument from a presumed danger The Romish Pretence EXcept there were a way of deposing Apostate Princes God had not prouided sufficiently for his Church The Answer This obiection is in your Extrauagants and so it may be called because it rangeth Extra without the bonds of Gods ordinance beside the presidence of primitiue example beyond the compasse of your owne allowance First from Gods ordinance For by the word of God as your Cunerus diuinely reasoneth which is not partiall and not by the selfe-pleasing fancy of sensuall affection must this question bee determined Though therefore it may seeme to vs a decree of nature for euery one to defend himselfe and the things he doth enioy yet the law of God doth forbid to doe this by taking armes against the higher powers as our L. Christ taught his Disciple now about to defend his Master Put vp thy sword for he that smiteth with the sword shall perish with the sword Because the sword is not put into the hands of Subiects against their Kings but into the hands of Kings against Subiects Accordingly S. Augustine doth conclude Those who beare the sword saith he against rulers must perish therefore the Apostle speak th generally He that resisteth the power resisteth the ordinance of God And againe not defending your selues my Dearest but giue place to wrath of the Gouernour for it is written vengeance is mine therefore no reuenging power ouer Kings and I will reuenge saith the Lord be not ouercome of euill but ouercome euill with good The second is the consideration of examples of the primitiue Church when for the space of 300. yeares it was in grieuous persecution where as S. Paul speaketh the faithfull fought with beasts after the manner of men namely as some doe allegorize with men as sauage as beasts and there was found no power on earth to restraine that earthly power Was therefore God awanting to his Church God forbid Nay rather he was not awanting for it is written Vertue is perfected in infirmity And againe As gold is purgedin the fire So by affliction c. Because When the outward man suffereth the inward man is renued And When I am weake then am I strong As therefore the wisedome of the Artist is then present with the gold when he is refining it the Physician with his Patient when he woundeth to cure him So whensoeuer the three faithfull be in the fiery furnace Behold a fourth that is a diuine succourer either by the inward miracle of comfort in patience or the outward of deliuerance The third is the view of your owne Popish Principles which is this That the Pope saith Bellarmine may not be iudged of any person vpon earth whether secular or Ecclesiasticall no not of a generall councell Nether may be saith your Carerius be deposed
though he should do something contrary to the vniuersall state of the Church As for example saith your Azorius though hee should neglect the Canons of the Church spare offenders oppresse Innocents make a pray of the goods of the Church and violate the lawes of Kings yet is he not to be iudged of any but God Not though saith your Pope himselfe one placed in the Calends of your Martyrs hee should cary many people with himselfe to hell yet no mortall creature may presume to say why do you so Heere is a desperate disease wherein you will not suffer so much as practise of Phlebotomy much lesse an incision or exustion And yet in like case against the secular state obiect Gods prouidence said I like O no farre different The difference of Kings and Popes in this point The Papall power will be thought spirituall and thus being euill may be the baine of soules the power of Princes is but corporall Therefore â—â—are them not because they can goe no further then the body Now the bodilie tyrannie worketh in the godly patience patience supports martyrdome martyrdome gaineth a crowne of life Therefore this euill with patience may happily be indured but the spirituall tyranny doth captiuate the inward soule the souâ—…c commands the senses these practise sinne and the stipend of sinne is death euen the euerliuing death of hell Therefore heere is need according to Gods prouidence of power to depose so desperate a spirituall euill whereof it is written If the salt want his salinesse it is good for nothing but to to be cast vpon the Dunghill Marke then concerning the spirituall that God hath ordeined Eijciatur foras cast out concerning the temporall Resist not the powers CHAP. XV. The Arguments of Protestants against the pretended Papall power ouer Kings from 1. Scripture 2. Fathers 3. Reasons 1. Scriptures In the Old Testament IT is granted vs for the old Testament that Priests were subiect to their Kings and the necessity of due subiection to wicked Kings we haue exemplified in Dauid the mirror of all perfect loyalty which case is made more liuely by the Answer to the example of Eliah Scriptures In the New Testament Of many one shall suffice Rom. 13. Let euery soule be subiect to the higher powers If you doubt what power this is to whom subiection is due looke what he hath in his hand He beareth not the sword for naught It is a sword therefore power temporall if from whom this is due it appeareth Euery soule be subiect all other conditions of reasonable men If why this is expressed For the power is ordained of God The point in question is concerning the Subiect The Romish seeke two enasions to free their Pope from subiection The Romish pretence From this place the Protestants conclude that therefore the Pope ought to be subiect But I deny their consequent for the Apòstle writeth of subiection to Heathen Emperours to whom euery Christian was to submit themselues But now that Emperours be Christians they ought to acknowledge a superiour power in the spirituall Pastor the Pope The Replie This your solution doth destroy a generall maxime confessed of all diuines to wit that as your Acosta confesseth Insidels conuerted to Christian faith do not therefore lose their former temporall right Which we haue already prooued by your owne confessions and more then ten circles of Antiquity We argue further now from this knowen principle Princes by conuersion to the Gospell lose no temporall right which they had before their conuersion But in the state of Infidelitie we neuer reade that they could be deposed by their Pagan Priests Ergo this their prerogatiue may not be impaired by their obedience vnto the Gospell nay it is rather confirmed thereby euen in this text especially in three degrees First it teacheth greater Christian reuerence because in the Prince a Christian man doth not behold only man but the hand of God He is the Minister of God Secondly from Christian feare For Pagans as hirelings onely performed obedience propteriram for feare of the temporall Sword which man because it is in the hand of man might auoid by many meanes But Christians He that resisteth purchaseth damnation are dutifull for feare of the eternall wrath of the iust omnipotent God Thirdly from Christian confidence For Pagans assoone as the King doth tyrannize do rebel as though freedome corporall were their speciall good but Christians Wil t thou not feare the power doe good and thou shalt haue praise of God in suffering outward euill for well doing are confirmed in the hope of an euerlasting good Fourthly from the bond of Christian loue for Pagans by their Princes commands are naturally inclined to discontent and hate but Christians Loue is the fulfilling of the law are by the law of Loue made perfect to obey the iust lawes of men If therefore Christians would as they ought be subiect to the law of Christ I suppose there is no Pagan Prince if perswaded of this doctrine of Christ but would more easily be a Christian Their second Euasion The Romish Pretence The Apostle doth not restraine his speech to any kind of superiour power but speaketh generally of powers that be signifying aswell the spirituall power as the temporall Therefore Protestants may not conclude heereupon that the Pope ought to be subiect vnto temporall Kings The Answer If we suffer the spirit of God to be our Iudge the cause is plaine He beareth not the sword in vaine he meaneth the temporall Gouernour If we require witnesse of this truth from all antiquity behold S. Chrysostome saith your own Bishop and that truly doth vnderstand by euery soule that euery Apostle euery Prophet and euery Bishop ought to be subiect To whom doe other ancient Fathers as Euthym. Theod. Theoph. Oecumen and all the Greeke Doctors agree Yea Gregory surnamed the Great Bishop of Rome doth so likewise expound it and S. Bernard in his Epistle to a Bishop said thâ—… Euery soule saith the Apostle then must you also speaking the bishop of Senona be subiect he that shall offer to exempt you shall but offer to tempt and delude you CHAP. XVI Arguments of Protestants from Antiquitie HE that is Alpha and Omega first for Antiquity and last for Eternity Christ our Sauiour by the confession of your grand Iesuite as he was man and the Messias had no power temporall on this earth Secondly S. Peter and the other Apostles as is also confessed by your most vehement Aduocates in their plea for Papall hierarchie were all subiect to the temporall States Thirdly all ancient holy Popes Martyrs Fathers as is commonly granted yea when they had force to resist the violence of Tyrants Heretickes and Apostates did performe subiection to temporall gouernment as the ordinance of God Tertullian saying If we would be reuenged we could not want force S. Cyprian We
doe not resist although our number be great S. Nazianzene Not though the people be prone to resist you S. Ambrose Not when the people are present and offer a defence S. Augustine yeelding the cause Because Christian subiection is to be performed in loue and not in feare or by constraint A doctrine for those times namely the first 600. yeares in generall vse saith your Bellarmine And continued after Christ the space of 1000 yeares saith your Beâ—â—laâ—â—s neuer changed till the yeare 1060. saith your Tolossanus Friburgens Espencaeus and others And shall we dare to remooue The ancient Land-markes of our forefathers CHAP. XVII Other Proofs of Protestants from Antiquity in two most Christian and potent Nations England and France THat this soueraignity of his Maiesty whereunto notwithstanding all Papall iurisdiction we doe willingly subscribe may be knowen to be as anciently as earnestly challenged I will only point at some few heads of examples of our ancient Christian Kings which Sir Edward Cooke his Maiesties Attorney generall in his alwaies reportable and memorable Reports hath lately published In the raigne of K. Edward the first a Subiect brought in a Bull of excommunication against another Subiect of this realme and published it But it was answered that this was then according to the ancient lawes of England Treason against the King the Offendor had beene drawen and hanged but that by the mercy of the Prince he was only abiured the Realme Compare this Bull which did only push at a Subiect against his benefice with that Bull which more mankeen goareth Kings to giue them their mortall wound At the same time The Pope by his Bull had by way of prouision bestowed a benefice vpon one within the prouince of Yorke the King presented another the Arch-bishop refuseth the Kings presentation and yeelded to the Popes prouision This Arch-bishop then by the common law of the land was depriued of the lands of his whole Bishoprick during life In the raigne of King Edward the third the King presented to a Benefice and his Presentee was disturbed by one who had obtained Buls from Rome for the which cause he was condemned to perpetuall imprisonment Compare this Bull of disturbing onely the Present of Kings with that which doth ordinarily violate the Kings person In the raigne of Richard the second it was declared in the Parliament R. 2. cap. 2. that England had alwaies beene fâ—ce and in subiection to no Realme but immediatly subiect to God and to none other and that the same ought not in any thing touching the regality of the crowne to be submitted to the Bishop of Rome nor the lawes of their Realme by him frustrated at his pleasure Compare this English King immediately not subiect to the Pope and the aboue mentioned Iesuâ—ticall principle All Kings are indirectly subiect to Popes In the raigne of King Henry the fourth it was confirmed that Excommunication made by the Pope is of no force in England Compare this Of no force in England with those excommunications which in these later times haue been made against England In the raigne of King Edward the fourth the opinion of the Kings bench was that whatsoeuer spirituall man should sue another spirituall man in the Court of Rome for a matter spirituall where hee might haue remedy before his Ordinary within the Realme did incurre the danger of premunire being an hainous offence against the honour of the King his crowne and dignity Compare this with their Acts who haue made no other sute at Rome but meanes to dispossesse English Kings of their crowne and dignity Many other examples of like nature I pretermit and remit the Reader desirous to be further satisfied to the booke of Reports Habet enim ille quod det dat nemo largius The conclusion is that that challenge of Soueraigntie which was in opposition to the Popes Buls ancient right and iustice in Kings which were predecessours be not traduced now as an irreligious impiety in the successors The like might be spoken of France but I hasten to the last Argument presuming that my studious Reader perusing the French stories will ease me of that trauell CHAP. XVIII The last Argument of Protestants from Reason IT will be sufficient onely summarily to recapitulate the Arguments dispersed in this former Treatise The first Reason was long since Christened for The Apostles saith your Sanders did chuse rather to suffer euill than to reuenge wherein they were seconded by other heroicall Martyrs of Christ Who thought saith your Tolossanus their faith glorified in this that being persecuted yet they performed obedience Questionlesse they had some reason heereof One is specified by S. Cyprian Christians must be Preachers of the supernaturall vertue patience and not of vengeance Another by S. Augustine that Induring the misery of this life they may auouch their hope of a life eternall And lastly by Arnobius Heereby to make distinction of Christian obedience from that other of Pagans that whereas these yeeld onelie obedience proceeding from feare of man ours should appeare to be from Conscience towards God The second Reason is politicke which is that of your Victoria that the Clergy be members of the common-wealth Ergo they ought to be subiect vnto the state temporall I will adde another of this kind which wee borrowed from your Acosta shewing that licence of deposing Kings is an occasion of much spoiles and bloudshed The third Reason is violent inforcing you by your owne confessions to grant our conclusion your confessions be of two kinds first The Pope hath not temporall Soueraignty ouer Kings directly but onely indirectly in ordine ad bonum spirituale that is as the temporall doth necessarily helpe or aduance the spirituall good of the Church But So you may as well say saith your Carerius that a King hath not iurisdiction temporall but only indirectly because his authority doth intend a spirituall good aâ— namely preseruation of iustice in a common-wealth And he saith truely as may be confirmed by Saint Augustine A king as a man saith he doth serue God by his owne good life as a King by gouerning other mens liues to see that they doe that which is good It is his office not only to ordaine lawes for the preseruation of the politicke peace but also to establish true religion From hence I conclude that if this your distinction be good The Pope hath temporall iurisdiction ouer Kings to depose them indirectly that is as far foorth as may be behooffull for Religion then must you grant that Kings haue iurisdiction temporall onely indirectly because their Office also is ordained of God in ordine ad Deum as a minister of God for defence of his Church If your position be false then hath not your Pope that power ouer Princes no not indirectly The second Confession I take from
he may iudge depose and kill Herein giuing vs a speciall argument of your singular modestie whereas being ashamed to giue the Pope Direct Soueraigntie ouer Kings haue closely conueyed vnto him the same power by the other tearme called Indirectly It were to be wished you would leaue that subtill modestie and learne honest simplicitie It may be we shall perceiue some dragme thereof in your fourth-ly The moderate Answerer Fourthly the maintainers of this doctrine do not vrge greater indignitie or defend any sentence more offensiue in equall iudgement to any Pralate sheepe or shepheard then to the chiefest Shepheard vnder Christ the Pope himselfe for they all with one consent affirme that in case of heresie now in question he is either actually and really deposed or to be deposed The Canonists do hold that he is ipso facto deposed if he fall into heresie with whom Turrecrem Castrâ— and others do consent The Reply Wherein I dare appeale to any equall or almost any vnequall iudgement of my greatest aduersaries to determine whether this your answer be not absurdly false in two degrees First Those you say who vrge this opinion of deposing Princes in case of heresie offer no more indignitie to any sheepe then to the chiefe shepheard vnder Christ the Pope and yet in the same Chapter I Answer say you if any man hold that opinion of such power ouer Princes in Popes yet they will pleade it more tolerable in the authoritie of one supreme Pastor in the Church whereof Princes be sheepe c. The argument then of these men as you confesse and is hereafter shewed is this As the shepheard to the sheepe so the Pope to Kings but shepheards haue power ouer sheepe and not sheepe ouer shepheards Ergo Popes may depose Princes and Princes may not remoue Popes This is your Popish and as it is after proued your sheepish conclusion wherein whether there be not offered greater indignitie to Princes then to Popes let the equall Reader iudge Secondly the Authors of the doctrine of deposing of Kings in case of heresie do professe concerning Popes That they cannot possibly be Heretikes as Popes and consequently cannot be deposed Not saith Bellarmine by any power whether Ecclesiasticall or temporall no not by all Bishops assembled in a Councell Not though saith Carerius he should do any thing preiudiciall to the vniuersall statâ— of the Church Not though saith Azorius he should neglect the Canons Ecclesiasticall or peruert the lawes of Kings Not though saith your Gratianus Glosse he should carrie infinite multitudes of soules headlong with him into hell And these forenamed Authors do auouch for the confirmation of this doctrine the vniuersall consent of Romish Diuines and Canonists for the space of an hundred yeares Whether therefore to affirme that Kings may be Heretikes and for that cause deposed and that Popes cannot be deposed because as Popes they cannot be Heretikes be equall indignitie to Popes and Kings let if you will your vnequall Reader iudge And now not to stand vpon other transparent absurdities of these Authors your modestie is to be put in mind not to appeale vnto equall iudgement in that wherein you manifest your totall eclypse of iudgement Hitherto haue we disputed of the power of people and of the Pope considered as it were intensiuely Now we approach to examine both of them in their extent and execution CHAP. XIII The Discouerie in the third Reason WHosoeuer vpon any pretended supremacie whether of Pope or people do denie the necessarie right of Election or of succession of Protestant Princes are to be holden amongst all Protestants seditious But all Popish Priests do vtterly abolish the title of Succession in all Protestant Princes by pretended prerogatiue of Pope and people Ergo The Minor proued by their Positions In Election 1. The Romish Cardinall There is no election whether of King or Emperor of any force if he that is elect such as they esteeme all Protestants be excommunicate In Succession Reinalds The right of Kings Christian must depend rather vpon their Religion then vpon order of Succession and therefore all Christians are bound to cut off all hope lest that any such speaking of Protestants may aspire to the throne Otherwise saith Stapleton what do people else but euen preferre man before God Hereupon doth Simancha conclude that The Kingdome of an Heretike departed doth lineally descend vpon his sonne but if the sonne in the race Royall be hereticall the Catholike Common-weale may chuse him a Prince but if also the Kingdome be hereticall then the choice of the King belongeth to the Pope and so the Kingdome may be taken by Catholikes And lest peraduenture any should consent to the lawfull Succession father Parsons doth pronounce sentence Whosoeuer shall consent to the succession of a Protestant is a most grieâ—ous and damnable sinner Thus farre of the Position Now behold their Practise 1. In France Reinalds doth forewarne the French Will you proclaime Nauarre a Caluinist King of Fraunce What is this else then to aduance a dogge to be Soueraigne ouer men Shall Catholikes pray God saue that King whom they may not admit into their houses For suppose saith Father Creswell that he professe to bring in a more sound Religion what is this to the purpose he is bound to defend the Romish faith From France we will returne home where father Parsons busieth himselfe to disable the title of Succession of our most dread Soueraigne King Iames with intent to aduance the Infanta of Spaine thereunto Thus much of Successors now of Possessors The moderate Answerer Let all be true which he citeth and that they so teach yet if fiue particular men could make a generall Councell and their sentence be tearmed a publike Position yet they speake onely of a Prince excommunicate before his Election which case is not now in rerum natura much lesse in England as this vniust Accuser would proue The Reply Vniust not so your selfe will acquit me I haue instanced in sixe of your Priests and Iesuites whereof foure be our owne countrimen and therefore by your owne iudgement Best able to iudge of our country cause And you answer Let all be true which he citeth when you could not answer that one testimonie was vntrue Secondly you start backe If say you fiue particular men could make a Councell or their sentences be tearmed a publike Position as if we may not rather vnderstand your publike Positions by these fiue your best learned Clearkes then by onely you who by that your Yet if would onely seeme to take exception vnto fiue and bring instance to the contrarie from none In all which you testifie that I am not an vniust Accuser but that you are now an idle Disputer But if these fiue should be thought priuate whose bookes are priuiledged with the most publike and ordinarie approbation of your Church I could
Garnet was brought in suspition of the last treason least the guilt of such a Priest might be preiudiciall to the Catholike cause did before the formerly named Magistrates at the point of death recall his foresayd confession thrise with protestation Vpon my saluation saith he I was not acquainted with Garnet this many years After his death is Garnet apprehended and examined of that point of acquaintance with Tresham who did vnder his hand writing confesse both the times and places of their conuersing together al this Garnet did acknowledge at the Barre Then the right Honorable the Earle of Salisburie whose rare wisedome did in that vmuersall audience proue it selfe often the only racke to that Iesuite in extracting many truths from that Equiuocator to his often publike confusion asked him What iudge you M. Garnet of that false protestation of M Tresham he made vpon his saluation Garnet smiling answered I thinke he did equiuocate Smiling a thousand beheld him A very ridiculous answer indeed if it had not bene horribly impious which therefore the whole audience as children of truth did then by a common murmure openly detest To conclude I must now my moderate Answerer necessarily racke you but feare not onely by that Logicall instrument which is therefore called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 thus you would perswade vs that Priests thinke our Protestant Magistrates competent before whom you may not vse Equiuocation your Superior by whome if you be a Iesuite this your booke was priuiledged did both by practise and position more then allow the vse of Equiuocation the last day euen in a most honorable presence Now therefore if your booke was not priuiledged by Garnet then this inscription of your booke With licence of Superior is vntrue if you say he did priuiledge it then this excuse for all your Priests saying We allow Magistrates in England coâ— petent before whome we may not equiuocate Garnet gaine saying it is likewise vntrue The greatest difficultie now will be to tell whether of you two be the Superior in lying you in saying You do not defend that which you do so manifestly defend a flat lye or he who defendeth that which no man can euer defend Equiuocation the very damme of all damnable lying Whereof more at large in the Confutation Yet behold a greater mysterie of this iniquitie then hath bene yet reuealed Tresham taketh it on his saluation that to his knowledge no Priest was acquainted with the plot Digby and others make the like protestations at their death Garnet a Priest did deny with maine and many protestations that he had conference with Hall and defended it lawfull till he was conuicted by witnesse To what end lest that Priests guiltinesse might make their priestly function and Religion more odious Whence I may conclude that it were more then sottishnesse for any Protestant to beleeue the Priests protesting their innocencie as Garnet did at the Barre or their disciples protesting as Tresham and Digby did the innocencie of Priests and their adherents at their death I say all their witnesses deserue no credite who defend thus to equiuocate till they be euidently conuicted by witnesse CHAP. XXVIII The Discouerie The third abuse of Oathes is in dissoluing them THat though they take an oath of allegeance in cases temporall yet their common interpretation is still with respect of their more supreme head During the will of the Pope who say they hath power to free both himself and others from the bond of an oath Which is their old glosse saying that The case is so to be interpreted namely except the Pope shall release him from his oath because in euery oath the authoritie of a Superior must be excepted The moderate Answerer There must needes be some exception of lawfull oathes else whatsoeuer wickednesse is sworne must be performed as that of the Iewes against Saint Paule and of Herod against the Baptist The Replie There must be some exception of an oath which is this In male promissis rescinde fidem that is A wicked vow is well broken But your Popish exception for two respects we iustly think intolerable this will be plaine by this example If now the Spanish in his league vpon expresse conditions with the English would for the performance of his oath depend vpon the Popes arbitrement which is Till you can find oportunitie for a mischiefe then silly English are in no better case then a goose tyed with a line by the legge to a foxe tayle which doth appeare in the Discouerie following The Discouerie Practise Their practise we haue shewed in the former Reasons we may here adde a more auncient example A Canonist saith a Iesuite did inueigh against Pope Gregorie the 12. who in the time of a great schisme did openly and solemnely sweare that if he were made Pope he would giue it ouer againe but being elected he performed nothing lesse The Canonist doubtlesse wanted not a Canon to condemne this perlurie though the Iesuite vpon presumption of iusta causa doth defend it For the cause was indifferent whether to giue ouer his Popedome or to keepe it but the oath of indifferent matters doth inferre a iustice in performance and condemne the not performance of periurie Who also in the same Volume holdeth their generall position saying Other mens oathes may be dissolued by the Pope So that when the Pope shall send but his Bull of freeing our English the bond of their oath will proue as strong as the knot of a Bul rush The moderate Answerer But to speake vnto this Obiector concerning Protestants proceeding in equiuocating The Reply But first men should be so modest as to couer their owne bald pates before they note others of like imperfections The moderate Answerer f I plainely answer that all Catholikes of this Kingdome both Priests and others do and ought syncerely to acknowledge his Maiestie absolute and really a true King of all his kingdomes c. And that among other duties to denie to sweare or violate an oath iuridicè iustly and according to the course of lawe proposed and to equiuocate therein is a sinne damnable The Reply In this your protestation by these words It is damnable to vse Equiuocation before them iudging iuridicè iustly and according to lawe I doubt much that you your selfe vse some damnable Equiuocation for what is I pray you iuridicè iustly may you Priests take a corporall oath before a ciuill Magistrate whomsoeuer this is against your owne Decrees A Priest saith your Iesuite may not take an oath before any ciuill Magistrate though the Bishop should â—â—cence him thereunto Secondly call to mind the forme of our English oath To acknowledge no forraine power either of any King or Prelate to haue any preheminence ouer our Soueraigne to insist onely vpon this branch in causes temporall either directly or indirectly Say now will you be sworne to this or no If you shall say you will not take heed then
detestable lying vnder the shadow of Equiuocation is authorized for truth where desperate Rebellion is aduanced in the pretence of Religion where most barbarous massacres of Christian people and monstrous murthers of Kings and Princes are magnified as glorious Stratagemes be preindiciall to the holinesse of any cause I dare call heauen earth yea and hell also to witnesse between vs. Thus I leaue you as persons conuicted of high Treason God grant you grace of repentance and now I proceed to pleade the cause of Protestants generally impeached by you as persons guiltie of the same crime The second Part containing a Iustification of Protestants against slaunderous imputations obiected vnto them by this Answerer in two points Doctrine of Rebellion And sacrilegious Aequiuocation CHAP. I. THE second kind of answer in this our moderate Answerer is by Recrimination to make Protestants as much or rather more guiltie of crimes Rebellious and Aequiuocations then the Romish sect First is the case of Rebellion 1. generally 2. more particularly 1. In generall The moderate Answerer Let the Discouerer battle himselfe against his Protestant brethren which of all the people in the world that euer were or will be are most guiltie in these proceedings All iumping together in this conclusion that Kings differing in Religion from them are not worthy to be accounted either Princes or men but must be deposed We haue read and seene many conspiracies and rebellions proceeding from the dogmaticall men of this profession and their Rebels sâ—aine in their actuall rebellions and approued of them and canonized for holy Martyrs The Reply Lowd clamour and lewd Which your generall accusation must haue a general satisfaction to shew that it is childish extrauagant and slaunderous As childish as your boy-trick when about to be conuicted for a truant you accused some other for fellowship Admit then this to be a true recrimination yet as S. Augustine reasoneth of two kind of theeues so may I of diuers kinds of rebels This theefe saith he is not therefore good because the other is worse Can the one of these be saued by the other mans halter 2. Extrauagant wandring out of the circuit of the question thus The question was whether Romish Priests can be true subiects vnto our Protestant King you would satisfie by examples of Protestants disloyaltie to Romish Gouernors Suppose it be so although we condemne all such Protestants yet here is your iniquitie those Protestants in the Romish regiments you call Rebellious traitors and yet you Romish in Protestants kingdomes will be called dutifull and faithful subiects contrary to the naturall law of all equitie Feras legem quam fers To be iudged by your owne law and acknowledge your like case with such Protestants if yet there haue bin any such worthy of the like condemnation 3. Slanderous for those whom you in this place accuse rebellious in another place by consequent you acquit as innocent Protestants you say alledge this Scripture Omnis anima potestatibus sublimioribus subdita sit Let euery soule be subiect to the higher powers c. to proue Princes supremacie By the which also Protestants proue That the Pope of Rome saith Bellarmine ought not to ouer-rule Princes or depriue them of their regiments although otherwise they deserued to be depriued of this opinion be all Protestants Now I would demaund of any indifferent Reader whether they do suffer any to resist who chaleÌ„ge euery one â—o acknowledge obedience We may deuine now what moderation you will keepe in the rest of your accusations who haue thus plainely confuted your selfe in this first CHAP. II. The particular Recriminations are fetched from diuers Kingdomes First to begin at home England The moderate Answerer The Discouerer hath made a fond argument against the Protestant ministers in England conuinced of sedition for taking armes against their Soueraigne The Reply I would this your obiection were such whereby we might onely charge you of foâ—dnesse and not of falshood also and malice For of the Church of England your Iesuite hath giuen a contrary verdit The English Protestants saith he do acknowledge their Christian Prince supreme euen in causes Ecclesiasticall Which is true in his lawfull sence But here againe we behold the spirits of giddinesse you defame the English Christians as denying due subiection to their Soueraigne your Iesuite accuseth the same English for yeelding more then due But I leaue you both to battle together you to accuse him of impudencie and he you of stupiditie This hath bin of English onely yet in generall Next you CHAP. III. Descend vnto Indiuiduals in our English nation The moderate Answerer I must put the Discouerer in mind that he hath beheld his visage too much in the glasse of Cranmer Ridley Latimer Sands Rogers and all Protestants of all places What haue these men done It was the consent of these and the chiefest Protestant Bishops and Diuines that Queene Marie might be deposed and not onely she but her sister Queene Elizabeth a Protestant which was put in practise both with wit and weapons to the vttermost of the Protestants power by the Duke of Northumberland and Suffolke and many others of great estate and not this only against the expresse statutes of the kingdome but their owne oath to the Lady Marie in her fathers life Thus did these wth their Protestant Preachers and forces against the succession of Queene Elizabeth For England I haue spoken already more then I desire had not such wicked accusations against vs vrged me to the breach of silence Now I will onely say that the publike and dogmaticall positions and practises of rebellions by the greatest Protestant subiects of this kingdome the Dukes of Northumberland and Suffolke and so many Nobles to be passed with oblinion with the whole Cleargie against not onely God and their Queene but oathes of fidelitie to King Henrie the eight that I am bold to affirme c. The Reply No maruell though you be bold to affirme thus much concerning the knowledge of these things seeing you verifying the vulgar article are herin blind Seeke therfore into historie the light of veritie and life of antiquitie and you will easily see how much you haue bin ouerseene First your boldnesse touching historie hath presumed to affirme that K. Henrie the eight did illegitimate his two daughters M. and E. and after declared the contrary making them legitimate by statute I haue inquired into the Acts which are extant and I find three Acts whereby the aforesaid daughters were disabled as namely in annis 25. 28. 33. of King Henrie his raigne But for establishing of them in the right of succession I think you cannot shew it except it be in anno nunquam canone nusquam The case is more manifested by the answer of the whole Councell to the letters of Queene Marie wherein she now after the death of King Edward made chalenge to the right of the
Crowne The Councels answer is thus framed This is a-against the sundry Acts of Parliament remaining yet in force confirmed by the King of famous memory Henrie the eight against the letters patents of our late Soueraigne King Edward the sixt and his great seale against the consent of the most part of the noble Vniuersities of Christendome c. Wherefore you that tell vs of a statute of Legitimation as a matter euident in modestie shold not haue concealed your euidence Otherwise you know in a proposition copulatiue if but one point be true the whole is a lie Say then whereof can you accuse Cranmer Ridley and all Protestants wherein you will not make King Henrie the eight King Edward the sixt and many Parliaments guiltie I did neuer heare the whole state of any kingdome termed Traitors but by your boldnesse If you had strooke at the head of that opposition you should not haue needed to haue lopped the branches for if King Henry might haue spoken from the dead in the day of the succession of Queene Mary he would haue pleaded the cause of the opposites as Dauid did in the behalfe of his people Oues hae c. It is I these other what haue they done Notwithstanding we acknowledge her successiō iust and after the proclamation of her title shew vs what Protestant euer resisted what Minister of the Gospel in all that fierie trial did kindle the least sparke of sedition among her people Was it because they wanted hope of succession Behold there was the hand-maide of God Elizabeth their hopefull successor to the Crowne Was it for want of power why death is rightly described to be a Giant hauing a thousand hands able to giue any liuing creature his mortall wound But I abhorre to discourse of these rebellious conceits Lastly of all Protestants which were burned in Queene Maries dayes for Religion name but one that was accused of treason I require instance but in one an apparant demonstration that their Religion taught them loyall subiection The second Instance for England The moderate Answerer Sir Thomas Wyat warranted by Protestants Cleargie with diuers others in the short regiment of Queene Marie may be giuen for instance The Reply The Historie relateth the pretence of Wyat thus A Proclamation against the Queenes marriage desiring all English men to ioyne for defence of the Realme in danger to be brought into thraldome to strangers who be Spaniards The like was the Proclamation of the Duke of Suffolke Against the marriage with the Prince of Spaine Where auouching his loyaltie to the person of the Queene layed his hand on his sword saying Hee that would her any hurt I would this sword were at his heart Againe there is recorded the Oration of Queene Marie against Wyat where there is not to be found any scruple concerning the subiect of our question cause of Religion neither was there to make it more apparant any Minister of the Gospell brought in question as a commotioner in that cause Though therefore it is requisite that that which is lawfull be performed by lawfull proceedings yet if intent the subiect of this dispute might answer for Protestants accused in that name then is it plaine that it was not Religion if for Wyat and his fellowes it is as plaine it was not against the Queene or State but for both that the whole land might continue in their former subiection and that by Spanish insolencie her Highnesse preheminence and soueraignetie might not be impared Let vs heare The third Instance for England The moderate Answerer Goodman published a booke concluding it lawfull to kill Kings transgressing Gods lawes themselues and commaunding others to do the like The Reply If I should iustifie this Goodman though your examples might excuse him yet my heart shall condemne my selfe But what doe you professe to prooue All Protetestants teach Positions rebellious Prooue it Here is one Goodman who in his publike booke doeth mainetaine them I haue no other meanes to auoyde these straites which you obiect by the example of one to conclude All Protestants in England rebellious then by the example of * All the rest to answer there is but one And now let me be beholden to your moderation to remember multitudes of your Priests Iesuites Cardinals and Popes in their publike authorized bookes Bulles Decrees and now you requite mee with one But shall one dramme of drosse prooue the whole masse no golde Let vs therefore leaue this Goodman as a man who by his vnauthorized wicked and false positions hath falsified his name You proceed The fift Instance against English Protestants The moderate Answerer The English Protestants notes vpon the Bible as his Maiestie is witnesse do not disallow the killing of Princes in such case as is shewed by the booke of Conference pag. 47. The Reply It will be requisite without preiudice to the most learned and religious iudgement of his Maiestie to satisfie for two places related from that conference The first place touching the act of the midwiues of Egypt who mercifully spared the liues of the infants of the Hebrewes notwithstanding the commaundement of the King The note Their disobedience herein was lawfull but their dissembling was euill And was not this disobedience lawfull Let vs consult with the holy Ghost Heb. 11. 23. where it is written By faith Moses when he was borne was hid three moneths of his parents neither feared they the Kings commaundement The same is the case of the midwiues disobeying the commaundement of the King Now that which is noted by the Spirit of God as commendable in the parents of Moses may it be condemnable in these mercifull midwiues of the Egyptians Nay for it is also written The midwiues of Aegypt feared God and did not as the King commanded them but preserued aliue the male children and therefore God prospered them But we must discerne in this act two colours white and blacke which S. Augustine distinguisheth They did a worke of mercie in preseruing the liues of the yong babes but they did lie vnto the King for safeguard of their owne liues The first deserued prayse the other needed a Pardon Therefore this their lawfull and mercifull disobedience for preuenting the bloudie Massacre of Infants can be no president for your practises intended in malice to end in the bloud of Protestants of all sorts The other point of the note against Dissimulation doth indeed crosse your equiuocating profession but you are not to be offended with vs if we condemne that as sinfull which as S. Augustine saith needed a pardon The second place 2. Chron. 15. 16. the Text King Asa deposed Maachah his mother from her estate because she had made an Idole in a groue The note Mother or Grandmother yet herein the King shewed that he lacked zeale for she ought to haue bene burnt by the Couenant as vers 13. And by the law of God Deut. 13. but he gaue place to foolish
to his Religion yet not long after they pronounced iudgment of death vpon him But King Francis fell extremely sicke and in his sicknesse made a solemne vow to all Saints in Pieardie that if it pleased them to help him he wold wholy purge his Realme of meaning Protestants all those heretikes And thus all Protestants were freed then from this designe the Saints of Piccardie belike were of your mind Protestants are no heretikes The second Instance of The moderate Answerer They raised such rebellions and civill warres against Charles the ninth wherein the King of Nauarre and Duke Nyuers with others were slaine The Reply I reade the storie in our foresaid Historicall collection of memorable accidents in France and others and I can find onely this thing memorable concerning this point that The King was then in his minoritie and the Queene Mother was regent who yeelded too much vnto the Guizes faction who persecuted the Prince of Condie and sought the destruction of all the bloud royall at length Duke Nyuers with King Nauarre in the warre against his brother at the siege of Roane are wounded and slaine See the cause of the Prince of Condie his defence In lan 1â— anno 1562 was made an Edict whereby permission was granted to them of the Religion to assemble without the townes and order was taken that either part Protestants and Catholikes might liue in quietnesse and peace with each other But a while after the Constable did deface all places of their assemblies and those of the Religion were cruelly handled This was the first beginning of the horrible troubles in France But were Protestants after this rebellious In those of Languidoch the King did pardon whatsoeuer they had done in their iust defence holding them for good subiects What was then the cause why the Prince of Condie and the Admirall did beare armes They vnderstanding that 6000. Switzers were now entred into France with intent to execute violence vpon them of the Religion they betake themselues vnto the King from whom they receiued no fauourable answer therefore they did flie for defence against those Switzers not suffering their throates to be cut by theeues After this was there concluded a peace the Prince of Condie doth lay downe his armes his aduersaries were contented onely to promise to do the like alledging that there is no faith to be held with heretikes Shewing themselues herein false and not onely faithlesse for you know Protestants are no heretikes The third Instance of The moderate Answerer The Duke of Guize was trecherously murdered by Pultrotus for that fact suborned by Beza and the Protestant Admirall The Reply The storie is that The Duke of Guize had appointed a day to take Orleance wherein he would not spare any man woman or child whomsoeuer and after he had kept his Shrouetide there he would spoile and destroy the towne Pultrot riding vpon a Spanish Ginnet shot the Duke with a Pistoll and slue him after was taken and tormented with hot tongs to make him confesse and then torne in peeces by force of horses Let vs leaue him if you will iustly executed by them come to the other vniustly slaundered by you for It was euidently knowne at his execution that Pultrot did it of his owne motion and particular intent thereby to free France and especially Orleance froÌ„ the violence of the Duke of Guize To this first Historian agreeth the second The King after he had examined the Admiral to â—ether with his Councel did acquit him of suspision and imposed perpetuall silence to all not to speake of it You therefore though no subiect might haue bene taught silence especially seeing that the confederates of the Religion among whom was Theodore Beza did condemne this fact of Pulirot as rash and directly contrary to the commaundement of God who will herein condemning all such desperate examples inspired onely with a diuellish motion that euery crime and offence shal receiue punishment according to the institution politike and forme of gouernment established in euery state at the discretion of the Magistrate The moderate Answerer Such were the miserable murders and calamities which they brought to that distressed kingdome that in the two first ciâ—… wars and rebellions aboue an hundred thousand were slaine as Gaspar Collen witnesseth The Reply It is not vnlikely but an hundred thousand were slaine but it is as probable that a thousand for an hundred of them were Protestants persecuted for their Religion who alwayes lay open to Popish trecheries as is plaine by the barbarous massacre wherein as testifieth your owne author there was slaine twentie thousand Protestants in lesse then one moneth by the furie of the Catholikes What could there be in the Protestant was it rebellion No but only constancy in Religion then persecuted by the malignant But what kind of motion might this be in those Catholikes which egged them on to this butcherie whether was it zeale or fury Christian iustice or Antichristian malice The Catholikes not content saith your Author to liue alwayes assured hauing the autoritie of the State for them aspired with a burning desire to bring to passe that which they had a long time plotted against their enemies But let vs leaue this Gâ—lgotha for so you made France by your monstrous massacres as then a place of dead mens sculs Whither shal your next voyage be CHAP. VII The Instances of the moderate Answerer in Heluetia The first The moderate Answerer LEt vs come to Heluetia and especially Geneua the Mother-Church of the Reformed M. Caluine the supreme head of thereformed there hath told vs before that Princes not agreeing with vs in Religion are to be spitted vpon rather then obeyed they are not to be numbred among men they are to be bereaued of all authoritie The Reply What absolutely depriued of all authoritie Proue this and I will as absolutely denie all his doctrinall authoritie whom by reading of your most learned Iesuites as Maldonate Ribera Pererius Salmeron Tollet and such others and conferring their expositions with Caluins I dare boldly affirme him to be of that excelleÌ„t iudgment that these your greatest Rabbies for their best expositions light their candles at Caluins to arch But to the point Caluin doth consider in the person of a wicked King two situations one as he sitteth vnder God the other when he exalteth himselfe to sit aboue God when he commandeth as a substitute and subordinate God hath commanded vs to obey man but when he commandeth contra Deum against God saith * Caluine he vsurpeth Gods throne and herein he looseth his royaltie which is to be obeyed A matter so reasonable that in the behalf of God the A postles in like case are content to appeale herein to the iudgement of his aduersary man Whether it be better to obey God or man iudge you To explane this by example If a Iustice of peace shall command
the common-wealth and a King is as well a King of the Cleargie as of the Laitie therefore the Cleargie is subiect vnto the ciuill autoritie in temporall things for such matter is not ruled by any power spirituall a plaine demonstration The third Obiection from the prophecie of the old Testament and the euents of the new The Romish pretence This is the tenor of the late yongue Buls of Popes as of Paulus 3. Pius 5. and all their followers I the seruant of the seruants of God placed in the seat of iustice according to the Prophecie of Ieremie where it is written Ierem. 1. Behold I haue appointed thee ouer Nations to roote them vp and destroy them to plant and establish them doe excommunicate these Kings and their fauorites absoluing subiects from their obedience and commanding them to take vp armes to roote them out Is this the true sense of that Prophecie It was spoken to the Bishops of Rome in the person of Christ The Answer O arrogant glossers yea impudent glosers and peruerters of the sacred Oracles of God! Did euer Ieremie put downe Kings to root them out Hearken to your Lyranus No he did onely denounce Gods iudgements against wicked Kinges Hearken to that godly Pope Gregorie who sheweth that Ieremies act was onely By preaching and not by fighting If you demaund in whom this prophecie was fulfilled listen to your Doctor Capella It was fulfilled in Christ at whose comming Idols and false Oracles ceased and the Prince of the World was cast out Which Scripture lest the Pope might vnaduisedly applie to himselfe holie Bernard doth forewarne him to Beware of insolent pride for these wordes being applied vnto the Pastors of the church betoken onely an industrioâ—s ministrie but no predominant autoritie CHAP. VII The antiquitie of this pretended Papall power is examined from the Apostles times The Romish pretence THe Priest of the new Testament in the Priesthood of Christ haue more authoritie than that of the law ouer Kinges to depose them The Answer This is not probable except you can shew some footings either of Christ or his blessed Apostles or their holie successors in the purer periods of times But 1. Christ vsed not this ciuill iurisdiction For Princely autoritie as your chiefe Iesuite confesseth had beene supersâ—uouâ— in Christ whose end was to worke the worke of Redemption of man whereunto the onelie spirituall power was sufficient 2. Peter and the other Apostles neuer challenged temporall authority This also is confessed Apostles saith Carerius were subiect vnto the heathen Kings in all temporall respects because Pontificall gouernment is only ouer Christians within the church but the Heathens are said by the Apostle to be without 1. Cor. 6. Heereupon your Saunders doth conclude that Peter receiued of Christ no power ouer Heathen Kings He conceiteth a reason There is a double power of fortitude and Christian valour saith he The one in suffering aduersitie constantly the other in attempting and effecting hard matters couragiously that power of suffering as more excellent Christ chose as fittest for himselfe and his Apostles and their successors for the gaining of the world to the faith and therefore they did abstaine from armes and prescribe obedience The Romish insist As though there were not a difference of the condition of the church as of a vine there is one time to plant and water it an other to loppe and prune it The Answer As though the Church which before time was planted watred with the blood and deaths of holie Martyrs ought now for that is this mans scope to be lopped in the cutting off of the heads of wicked Kings Nay but if the patient suffering of the tyranny of Kings be as your Sanders truely said the more excellent Christian power than acting and working the death of Kings and that therefore that power was practized of our Lord Christ and bestowed on the Apostles for the confirmation of the glorious faith pardon vs if we fall at Iesus feet to choose the better part especially knowing that To all those who suffer vniustly for iustice there remaineth a crowne of iustice which the iust Iudge will giue in that day of Reuelation CHAP. VIII The primitiue Successors of the Apostles for the space of two hundred yeares and long after did acknowledge all Obedience temporall to all Emperours and Kings whether heathen or baptized although Tyrants or Heretickes or Apostatates yea euen then when they wanted no force to resist The Romish pretence IN former ages Christians said your Bellarmine did not depose wicked Emperours as Diocletian Iulian and such because they wanted force Which maketh some Catholicks said your Bannes now not resisting their Kings excusable because they want force For it is commendable said your Frenchman to suffer when thou canst not resist Otherwise Catholickes said your Creswell are bound to hazard their liues in this cause assooue as they can make resistance Whereunto might haue beeneadded your Cardinall Allen Ancient Bishops saith he might haue excommunicated the Arian Emperours and hauedefended themselues from them by force of armes but they did not by reason of greater forces of their Persecutors The Answer This is the very Arche of all your rebellious building which all your Iesuites haue erected and whereupon our bastard English Cardinall doth insist in his booke intituled A True and modest Defence for English Catholickes which how false and shamelesse it is I am now ready to shew vnto all true catholickes for their confirmation and to the others for their conuersion First in generall For. For the space of two hundred yeares we cannot reade saith your learned Tolossanus of any christians resisting Emperours of other times or in their most bloudy persecutions to haue raised any tumult in the Common-wealth no not then when they were able both by equall number and power to match them But heerin they thought their religion aduanced before all others and gloried in this behalfe to be called Christians who professed this as a most holy doctrine namely obedience to Magistrates True the patient Christian did aduance Christian religion by suffering vnder Kings but the now pragmaticall Christian God grant I may be a false Prophet by acting and plotting Strategemes in resisting Kings will ruinate the holy faith To Tolossanus agreeth your Cunerus saying The Martyrs of those times when they by reason of their multitude might easily haue conspired against their persecuting Tyrants Hearken you conspirators and be ashamed yet for the honour of Christ by performing obedience to the higher power chose rather to suffer then resist For as saith S. Augustine they would demonstrate their hope of the life to come and by their confessions and deaths whereby they gaue witnesse to the truth of God were called Martyrs witnesses whose number was so great that if it had pleased Christ to arme them and aid them as he did