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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A94081	An essay in defence of the good old cause, or A discourse concerning the rise and extent of the power of the civil magistrate in reference to spiritual affairs. With a præface concerning [brace] the name of the good old cause. An equal common-wealth. A co-ordinate synod. The holy common-wealth published lately by Mr. Richard Baxter. And a vindication of the honourable Sir Henry Vane from the false aspersions of Mr. Baxter. / By Henry Stubbe of Ch. Ch. in Oxon.	Stubbe, Henry, 1632-1676.; Stubbe, Henry, 1632-1676. Vindication of that prudent and honourable knight, Sir Henry Vane, from the lyes and calumnies of Mr. Richard Baxter, minister of Kidderminster.	1659 (1659)	Wing S6045; Thomason E1841_1; ESTC R209626	97,955	192

AN ESSAY In Defence of the GOOD OLD CAUSE OR A Discourse concerning the Rise and Extent of the power of the Civil Magistrate in reference to Spiritual Affairs WITH A PRAEFACE Concerning The Name of the Good old Cause An Equal Common-wealth A Co-ordinate Synod The Holy Common-wealth published lately by Mr. Richard Baxter AND A VINDICATION OF The Honourable Sir HENRY VANE from the false aspersions of Mr. BAXTER By HENRY STUBBE of Ch. Ch. in Oxon. Vincat Veritas London Printed in the Year 1659. A premonition to the Reader BEing unexpectedly called to this worke by the good providence of God in our late changes I must begge thy pardon of what judgment soever thou art for severall imperfections that may have happend in the attempt If thou art a friend to the Good old cause I be 〈◊〉 thee to excuse the defects of a person whose reall inclinations thou canst not question without wronging the greatest innocence in the World I have hast'ned the work that so my forwardness might recompense all other miscarryages what is now but an Essay may hereafter grow up to a just defence If thou art one who dissentest any way from me I must further acquaint thee that excepting the preface I never saw three of these sheets together they were never transcribed and in the writing as new passages did occurre to my memory so I pasted them on sometimes not where they should have come in but where I could conveniently place the labells so that if there be any lapses of Memory small incoherences transpositions or other errours as are the products of unusuall haste I must either entreat thy pardon or submit to what severity thou canst make use of after this acknowledgment in any part which is but as it were the fringe of the ensuing discourse I assure thee I have not imposed upon thee any citation but for the Truth of them thou must have recourse to their originals and not to versions which may deceive my adversary but have not me That Mallela whom I quote is a Greeke manuscript in Oxford library I think I have deserved moderation from all men unlesse Mr. Baxter quarrell with me whom I have dealt more roughly with then other wise I should because he seemed and I am informed was instigated by the Courtiers to revile in so opprobrous a manner the abettours of a Common-wealth if I am too confident against him and some others whom I name not I throw my self at the feet of the more learned and judicious Episcoparians if they convince me I shall lay my hand upon my mouth and willingly become a proselyte to Truth It is upon this account that as I professe my self to publish my own opinions without interesting any other in the debate so I have chosen no dedicitour being loath to engage any into the patronage of what upon a sober refutation I my self shall retract as solemnly as I do now d●vulge it I aime at nothing but Truth nor do I write to serve any party or designes of any men If any shall think me worthy of being their convert they shall not need to print against me I shall do them as much justice who being loath to write against a book with this Title may advise me by Letter as any who shall appear in print and I onely further adde that I desire they would calmly argue and not disquiet me 〈◊〉 ●●opular harangues and preach●● such as conclude nothing and 〈◊〉 ●nall reflections since I know 〈…〉 it is for men to say that he 〈…〉 a Toleration of all opinions is himself 〈◊〉 I do declare that there is no necessity of that and my history of Toleration will evince it and moreover I owne entirely Perkin's doctrine in the chaine of Salvation and if I differ from Beza about punishing hereticks I know not how I am bound up to call any man Master I must also desire the errata of the printer may be excused for I have not had any opportunity to revise any proofes From my Study in Ch. Ch. Oxon. July 4. 1659. Henry Stubbe The Preface I Am not ignorant with how much hazard any man writes in these days of ours but to write now and for THE GOOD OLD CAUSE which especially where I live is often mentioned with detestation reproach and scorne is to contend with all the discouragements that might terrifie one from becoming an Authour Some there are who like to Alexander the Copper-smith at Ephesus decrye the Goodnesse of what their interest leads them to condemne others question the Antiquity and doubt whither this Sumpsimus be more old then their Mumpsimus To the former I endeavoured a reply in the Treatise ensuing Of the latter sort of men I desire they would consider That it is not denyed but at the beginning and in the carrying on of the late Civill warres there were sundry causes that engaged severall parties into that Quarrell against the King particular Animosiities Scandalls sense of future Emoluments great or lesse Defence of Liberties and Religion under different garbs and apprehensions These besides what the publick declarations of Parliament held forth whilest neither the priviledges of Parliament nor the Liberties of the people on the one hand nor the Corruptions of a King of whom I may say as of Lewis the Eleventh of France All his evill councill did ride upon one horse were suffic ently discovered and the meanes for establishing the ●●rst and redressing such inconveniences a● the last might create us unthought on or at least such as might not be proposed to a Nation half-prejudiced for an inveterate Monarchy These were the incentives which prevailed with men to contribute to the effecting of such changes as we are witnesses of in England Yet had there been tenne thousand other motives I should not count it a Sole●s●e but Truth to say That LIBERTY civill and spiritual were the GOOD old cause And however some may say that it was none of The Old cause to assert any proper Sovereignty in the people yet I must tell them that the vindications of the Parliament against the papers of the King then in being shew us that such a Sovereignety was presupposed and if it were not the old cause it was the foundation thereof and avowed for such those rights and liberties of the people the maintenance of which occasioned the warre had not been the voluntary concessions of Kings but either of Usurpers or enforced from such as did not usurpe in person though in deed their whole succession was but a continued usurpation If the Soveraignty were elsewhere stated it was onely the executive part which is but an improper Soveraignty the Legislative paramount Authourity and concernes of the people had been long before avowed by Lawyers and Divines of the chiefest rank If it was none of the cause of our warre to change the Constitution of the Common-wealth into any other forme then we found it in I answer that that needed not to be since the forme

is not the Unity of a Governour in person that makes a Common-wealth resemble God for Aristotle and he is of more credit than Pythagoras saith that to be ruled by Laws is to be ruled by God but to be ruled by a Man is to be ruled by a Bruite But further there is as little consequence in the Argument as distance betwixt Heaven and Earth Where there is a disparity in the ruled there must be no parity of rulers but in Mankinde there is no disparity all are equally free none are born Subjects or Rulers and to make a Monarchy best you must introduce such a disparity as that one may transcend as God for if many excell an Aristocracy or Democracy is best His other arguments from Angelical Natures and the government used by nature in man are no lesse ridiculous I wonder how he missed that of Crowes Bees c. That Government is best which is most suited to the nature of man now that varies according to circumstances as Mr. Baxter acknowledges How ignorantly done was it then by Mr. Baxter to bring such arguments as either prove Monarchy alwaves best or not at all for it will still be true that the Universal kingdom hath but one King without the danger of succession for a worse and without hazard of tumults c. but it is not so in Mankinde These Objections and the like concern not only the Independents to answer but Presbyterians for they prove against an Aristocracie in Church as well as State though Mr. Baxter cannot prove that the Government of the Church was or ought to be Monarchical but popular and if it had onely been for the name sake he should have declined the mention of the Church which is Ecclesia and what non-sense is it for him to argue p. 97. As Christ himself is the Monarch a King of his Church and the One head of his body so did he settle in every particular Church those Bishops Presbyters or Pastors whom he hath commanded the people to obey as Ru●ers The comparison is nought as Christ is the one head to one body so he hath subjected the people too in his Church to many heads I desire that Mr. Baxter would evince that Christ did settle in every particular Church Bishops and that the Order of Grace did so farre overthrowe the Order of Nature that the people should be the origine of the one power as I do now suppose and not of the other Sure I am that Embassadours to a people are not thereby rulers over a people His arguments from the want of Secrecy c. have been refuted by the contrary experience as well of reason in Malvezzi Boccalini and others so that I may well think that Mr. Baxter took us for a Common-wealth of Bees and therefore instead of solid Reasonings and a coherent Republick he thought to dissipate us by casting dust into the Air. I intended to have said more against that Book of his but finding my self now under a more necessary diversion then that work would be I hope I may be excused till another time Whether the Civil Magistrate hath any power in things of Spiritual concernment THough it seem that this Question may be easily decided out of a consideration of the very Terms themselves things Civil and Spiritual being of a different nature and not subordinate so as he who is deputed to administer the former is not thereby impowered to entermeddle with the latter any way the Appellation of Civil Magistrate no less determines the Object and extent of his power than the contrary Title of Spiritual Lord would restrain him that should be so constituted from any jurisdiction in Temporals or a Commission for N. N. to be Admiral at Sea limits his command so as he hath no rule upon Land But since the Implication of the Terms is not convincing enough with them who are either resolved or interested otherwise I shall make a brief inquiry into the rise and originall of Magistracy and the limitation of such power Magistracy it is the exercise of a Morall power one of these is the root and measure of the other which if it exceed it becomes exorbitant and is no longer Magistracy but a corruption thereof Almighty God hath so ordered the affaires of this world that Man partly thorough his own inclinations partly out of a sense of his necessityes not otherwise relieveable then by mutuall assistance is become naturally Sociable and Society as man is corrupted by Adams fall cannot be upheld and preserved but by the deputation of some that may make it their principal business to attend unto the good of the community and securing of each individuall in such rights as they respectively shall agree upon towards each other and for the executing of which trust they do mutually promise amongst themselves and to their Governour or Governours that they will be assistant unto him or them with their utmost power From Gods having so disposed of things Magistracy is called Gods ordinance 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And the Conscience hereof 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or apprehension that man hath of such sociable inclinations in him as often as he diligently consults his own thoughts is the reason of our subjection to Magistracy as well as that other of wrath and dangers likely to ensue upon any disobedience Rom. 13. v. 2.5 As to the severall kinds of Magistracy no● Higher and Subordinate but Supream viz. Monarchy Aristocracy and Democracy they likewise are commonly Gods ordinance by the former claim of his disposing mens hearts and other extrinsque and internall circumstances so as they embrace this or that form That the East is generally affected to and ruled by an absolute Monarchy whilst the West and North admit only of a Republique or such a mixture as however their Governours may be called Kings yet are they not Monarchs Sometimes God more immediately constituteth this or that particular forme of Government as first a Common-wealth in Israel and after that ●s his wrath a Monarchy God hath no where in his word determined what is the power of the Magistrate how farr it extends it self what will be the practise of Kings and so certainly their practise that they challenge it for their right we may read 1 Sam. 8. v. 11. c. But their Duty may equitably be drawn from Deuter. 17.19 He whom God should choose and the people set over them was to rule according to Nationall Lawes now Lawes cannot be universall but must be through the prudence of the Legislator accomodated to the particular circumstances in which any people is Where the word of a King is there is power and who may say unto him what doest thou These and such like Texts oblige not but such as are under Monarchs The justitia of Arragon may notwithstanding them resist the King of Spain and our Parliaments controule his Majesty The People are the Efficient cause of Magistracy and from them is all true power derived

God himself when he gave a King to Israel he did but propose the People did set him over them Magistracy is not a paternall right nor consequent thereof either in Scripture or Nature But suppose Adam Monarch of the whole Earth and that Monarchy was instituted when yet there were but two in the world Gen. 3.16 where God tells the woman that her Husband should rule over her I would faine know whither Adam had this Dominion as Father which is not proved from the text or as being the first man created in a world devoyd of Landlords and so falling to the first that should possess it If the latter to wave that question so much debated whither in New found Lands more accrue to the first comer and discoverer then he takes Seisin of Then we ought to employ Sr. Tho. Vrchard to search out one universall Monarch Successour to Adam or it must be proved that our present division of Lands and Kingdomes under Magistrates is of his approbation But both Adams Successour and his will are impossible to be found out and so that rearch is at an end If he had that Dominion as Father then all Fathers have the like power so Adams Monarchy determines with his life and all Magistracy will be at least resolved into the People when many Families and Fatherless Persons unite into one estate If he had that Dominion as the first Father from whose Loynes all mankind issued I would faine know to whom he did bequeath that power Whither it did Naturally descend to his Eldest Son or might be conferred or communicated to other his Children arbitrarily But the right of primogeniture cannot be evinced out of Scripture whilst the stories of Esau Reuben Manasseth David Succeeding to the prejudice of Sauls Sons Adonijahs being displaced by Solomon Je●oahas the son Josiah his preceeding his Elder Brother Jehoiakin in the succession as the Jewes note and out of them Mr. Selden are preserved nor can it be deduced from the customes of Nations the only interpretor of Nature which vary in that point and if the claim of the first-born doth not conclude necessarily as it doth not neither in ancient or moderne Practise the pretenses of other Children are less valid Aristotle saith that succession in Kings by way of primogeniture was the custome of Barbarians that in the time of the Heroes men did rule otherwise Polit. l. 3. If all might be conferred or imparted arbitrarily let such Grantees produce their title from Seths pillars or elsewhere and we shall consider their plea. In the mean while since neither the descendants of Cain nor any other appear to challenge any such rights as mercenary divines and Lawyers have ascribed to Kings for no King or Magistrate I ever read of avowed such his right nor was it thought on either at the founding of the Common-wealth of Israel or the Election of Saul c. I cannot find any Magistracy in the world but what is derived from the People more or less consenting and impowering thereunto And thus if one Apostle call Magistracy the ordinance of God for of that he speaks abstractively Rom. 13. v. 2. Yet Magistrates or Magistracy in the concrete are of humane constitution and the creatures of men 1 Pet. 2. v. 12. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Be thou subject unto every humane creature or creature of man for so the word signifyes and not Ordinance no more then Marc. 16.15 preach to every creature 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for the Lords sake whether it be to the King c. To the making a Creature it is necessary that it's production be out of nothing or at least out of no matter predisposed for such a forme thus Adam was created and this is the Physicall sense of the word In a Morall sense then to the Creation of a Magistrate it is to be supposed that he neither is already vested with such a power nor in such a capacity as without the accessional of mans creation to grow up thereunto And indeed if all men are equall before they embody by cohabitation the voisinage gives no man superiority over another There are some which phancy that Power is indeed from the People only as Electing to it not as conferring it that they have only the presentation to that authority which God immediately gives This opinion seems to enterfere with that Text which represents the Magistrate as a creature of man but because in Scripture propriety of speech is not too rigorously to be insisted on and makes the case only probable not certain I further say that this is but the resuery of men whose imagination rather then judgement is extraordinary who must place the strength of their cause in Assertions that are only so farr disproveable in that they cannot be proved The People never owned such their suffrage in the most solemn elections of Saul David c. nor did God declare his power to be such though both parties did there severally interpose It cannot be evidenced out of Gods word Nature and Reason teach us no such thing the Relations of our King no less then those of other Nations hold forth the contrary and it were absolute folly for us upon slender probabilities and no greater evidence then a quick wit may give to the most despicable untruths to renounce the professions and practise of all Nations in all Ages which render our Opinion more then probable In fine it layes us open to all the whimseys imaginable that any bold assertour can impose upon the Almighty in hopes of not being refuted till doomesday The Papists will thus defend their Transubstantiation and prove that to be really the Body and Blood of Christ which we see to be Bread The same persons say that in Ordination a Character is imprinted upon the soul of the Priest ordained The English Bishops breathed upon their Creatures saying receive the Holy Ghost A thousand such cheats may be imposed upon the unwary if we admit of these suppositions and quit our sense for that which is non-sense I would faine know what is the Nature of the power thus invisibly collated what is the Tenour of this celestiall charter Is it arbitrary or Limited If Limited how farr These things are necessary for the people to know that they may not transgresse what they are as yet invincibly ignorant of This is a course which renders all Kings Absolute yea and all inferiour Magistrates too for the text distinguishes not of the ones being more from God then the other and it makes the Peoples misfortunes infinite and irrelievable since they are subjected to one upon they know not what termes by one to whom they can make no appeal but by Prayers and Tears This plea doth unsettle all the Governments in the civilized world making all Concessions null or at least in their origine unlawfull that were extorted from tyrants or granted by such Magistrates as are not satisfied with that plenitude of power which God

invests them with whether they can diminish it what we say now is their duty will be but an Act of grace and all our rights will be changed into priviledges It is then clear that the People are the Efficient cause of Magistracy and that all true power is derived from them Who those People are I must referr you for brevity sake to a consideration of the Erection of the Common-wealth in Israel There is no Government now but hath its originall from the consent of some people which people if they were before ligued with any other number besides themselves are tyed by their mutuall promises and compacts to them and their common Magistrate so as not to erect any new one in opposition to him unlesse there be a violation of fundamentall agreements and all satisfaction for what is past together with reall security for the future be denyed or to be despayred of If the Magistrate alone injure them they may with the common or in case that cannot be had thorough the circumstances of affayres which is the default of the Governors not governed with an interpretative Consent call him to an accompt If the others dissent and defend him then are they free from all precedent obligations not onely towards their Magistrate but one another Since in conditionall pacts if the one party faile the other is at liberty If their quondam Magistrate with his partisans invade them then are they free to defend themselves or prevent such dangers as are threatned any way from him or them yea and so to manage their own safety which is the onely cause of a just war and the End of Government in general that they may at Length totally subdue and subject them To all that are by conquest thus subjected the new erected Magistrate of the conquering people is not properly a Magistrate but a provinciall Governour And if they gave just cause of fear to the conquerours at first their Conquest is just if otherwise then not And so long their subjecting is legitimate whilest that security is gained which the conquerours designed in the beginning and expect as the product of war This Magistrate hath no absolute power over the conquered but such as is derived from them in whose strength and for whose safety he doth act and to them he is accomptable for such his demeanour as is not founded upon the Rule of Self-preservation As in the Common-wealth of Israel when they were to choose a King that King was obliged to have a booke of the fundamental laws written in his own hand and to read herein all the days of his life that he might observe the said statutes and do them that so his heart might not be lifted up above his brethren and that he should not turne from the commandement to the right hand or to the left Deut. 17. v. 18.20 So it behoves such a people as impowers any for Magistracy upon severall cases to make them recognise their Authority from whom they have it and for whose sake it is that they rule not only over them but over new accquests they ought also to be very cautious of mixing their government with that of the provincials and such as do not close with them in their originall Constitutions of their Magistrate for their proper interest may be eaten out and their Magistrate become established upon the base of such articles as the conquered will assent unto for the bettering of their present condition no lesse then ruine of their conquerours Severall Kingdomes in Spain having permitted their Kings by marryage to unite different Kingdoms retaining different loves and qualified with discrepant principles of Government have now lost their priviledges and fundamentall rights each contributing to the others overthrow by the subtill counsells of their Magistrate If the People Are the Authors of Magistracy and he their creature Then it will follow that He is erected and established for the compassing of their good and that this is the End for which he was set up For since man in his actings is supposed to act voluntarily and the object of his will is some good either reall or apparently so it must likewise be supposed that in the constituting of Magistracy all did aime at something that might be an universall good it being not imagined how all should conspire for the procuring of any good of a particular man or number of men to their own detriment and disadvantage self-love is not onely the dictate of Nature but recommended by our Saviour as the rule and measure of such love as we are to bear towards our neighbour The Ends of Nations in the erecting severall fabricks of Government are as different as they themselves there being no thing universally good or universally approved of And as their intendments are discrepant so they disagree in the ways for attaining their purposes which variety arises from the various prejudices and capacityes they are born and educated to in different climates with difference of naturall tempers difference of dyet and customs c. The most obvious and universall end is the upholding society and entercourse by securing each in their property and manage of commerce betwixt one another for mutuall supply of things necessary After that the World grew populous and that men began to straiten in their plantations they formed severall petit Governments each Town being a principality upon the end specified That they did not erect them for nor impower them to determine of the word or worship of God seems manifest from Scripture Before Enos there were Cityes and communityes for Cain built one Gen. 4. v. 17. yet the Text saith positively after Enos was born unto Seth Then began men to call upon the name of the Lord. Gen. 4. v. 26. After that when Abraham travailed up and down into Egypt the land of Gerar c. he erected an altar at Bethell and worshipped his God who was not the acknowledged God of the nations amongst which he sojourned without a plea for toleration in summe the whole story of the Saints under the old Testament seems to evidence this truth that their Magistrates were purely civill and that though they might have a Nationall religion as in Egypt and possibly Salem yet did they not entermeddle with the particular religion of their subjects or them that sojourned amongst them It was Haman's counsell to King Ahasuerus to destroy the Jews for that their laws were different from all people neither kept they the Kings laws viz. concerning Religion for if they had been otherwise criminall they could not have escaped unpunished Esther 3. v. 8. It is the Opinion of Bellarmine in his booke de Laicis that the Heathens did grant an universall liberty in the worship of God which assertion is for the most part true for though they had peculiar Gods for their nations yet privately and publiquely they which worshipped a God whosoever or whatsoever it was were permitted though Diagoras and Protagoras the one doubting of

to the nullifying of Government and therefore it is said four times over in the Judges chap. 17. v. 6. chap. 18. v. 1. chap. 19. v. 1. chap. 21. v. 25. That in those dayes there was no King in Israel and twice it is added but every man did what is right in his own eyes as if there had been no Government at all There is no such insinuation in the Text at all nor is the Defect of a King in Israel more true where it is expressed then where it is not throughout the Book of Judges What if it had been said in the dayes of Joshuah there was no King in Israel Or in the dayes of Gideon when the people desired him to be King over them Judg. 8.22 23. The men of Israel said unto Gideon rule thou over us both thou and thy sonne and thy sons son also for thou hast delivered us from the hand of Midian And Gideon said unto them I will not rule over you neither shall my son rule over you the Lord shall rule over you Those dull Israelites were not sensible of the confusion which they did live in nor did Gideon perceive it They did offer him the Kingdom because he had delivered them out of the hands of the Midianites the inducement is Gratitude and none of Mr. Baxters difficulties He refuseth the Kingdom because that in those dayes when there should be no King in Israel and every man should do what was right in his own eyes then the Lord should rule over them This very passage together with that of God to Samuel in the like circumstances 1 Sam. 8.7 They have not rejected thee but they have rejected me that I should not reign over them These places are a sufficient confutation of what Master Baxter addes to the Text. But let any judge if it be more for the dispraise of a Republike that without any further addition it is said in those dayes there was no King in Israel then to Monarchy after that in those dayes reigned King David or in those dayes there was no King in Israel but every man did that which was right in his own eyes and afterwards there ruled Jeroboam who made Israel to sin Another of Master Baxters arguments is p. 90. Thes 82. Nothing more incident to corrupted nature than self-love to blinde men and every man to be partiall in his own cause now it is the people that are to be governed judged punished c. and therefore how likely are they by partiality to themselves to make the Government next to none I answer that Mr. Baxter p. 102. Thes 99. objecteth against a Democracy that it is the worst because it will exercise the greatest cruelties which though it be false yet is a charge inconsistent with that of partiality Secondly this objection is either ill framed or it is destructive to all Government for in all Governments some must be Judges in their own Case and this Exception is non-sense The Question is whether seeing Arbitrary power or a power to judge in ones own case must reside somewhere where then is it best fixed I suppose in the people and that it is as impossible for a Democracy to be partial as for one upon a hundred Dice to cast as many or fifty one aces which is a security infinitely greater than what Mr. Baxters one Die will afford us And this is security enough against what Mr. Baxter urges p. 93. That the Laws cannot hold a Democracy from abrogating Christianity I answer no not if they will but if it be once prevalent you have a pretty good security a moral Impossibility that it should ever be exterminated What may happen under a Monarchy the narrations of Japan besides the actings of Jeroboam Nebuchadnezzar and others will testifie but it is evident that no Common-wealth permits the Inquisition and Christianity was much more easily planted in Common-wealths for the Jewes after the Captivity however they had the name of Kings sometimes among them were a kinde of one or an Aristocracy as Josephus tells us and when but a few made up all Christendome with how much difficulty was our Saviour put to death Whereas Mr Baxter saith further p. 93 94. that he is a Fungus and not a man that knoweth not by experience how easily bad men can make good Laws to be a nose of Waxe This saying doth not become a Divine who disavowe it in the Scripture which being a law without an Authenticall publick interpreter is avowed to lye under no such inconveniences In a Republick where there is an appeal to the people it is Morally impossible it should be so we ought not to think it so easy to delude a multitude as a few nor ought we to vouch the experience of corrupt Officers under a Monarchy for other experience no man in England of his own knowledg can alledge to the like issues under a Republick where these and all other difficulties are prevented neither can the maleconstitution of Rome whence proceeded all it's defaults prejudice Mr. Harrington's Oceana where all are remedied and this is a sufficient reply to all those arguments from inconveniencies which Mr. Baxter brings they being all Ignoratio elenchi But who would not laugh at the following Sophisms in the Kederminster disputant such as I have scarce heard from fresh-men here p. 95. Thes 88. Democracy is furthest from Unity and therefore furthest from perfection and therefore the most imperfect sort of Government O Malvezzi how hast thou exploded this argument in thy discourses upon Tacitus as if it were an unity of persons and not unanimity which made a Government perfect That unity is the companion of perfection and division departeth from it as it doth from unity is commonly acknowledged which caused the Pythagoreans to curse the number of Two because it was the first that presumed to depart from unity Is not this a fine argument for a Theologue Doth not it overthrow the Trinity as well as a Common-wealth Was it not a simplicity in the Pythagoreans if they were so absurd as Mr. Baxter makes them which they were not but he understands neither them nor Greek to attribute Presumption to things destitute of understanding and to curse Arithmetick because a man might mis-tell his Money or the like This is a sallacy 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 They who cursed two would not have admitted three to bear witness in Heaven and if two were such an execrable division how is it that God having made one man did not think it meet he should be alone Thes 8.9 ' That is the most imperfect Government which departeth farthest from the divine universal Form but so doth popular Government For the universal kingdom hath but one King This is a pretty Topick and such as Bellarmine and the Papists make use of to prove that there ought to be one Pope head of the Church Let the world judge whose cause Mr. Baxter pleads and what contumelies might be fastned on him It