Selected quad for the lemma: cause_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
cause_n	king_n	people_n	power_n	4,914	5	5.4287	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A87133	A letter unto Mr. Stubs in answer to his Oceana weighed, &c.	Harrington, James, 1611-1677.	1660 (1660)	Wing H814A; Thomason E1017_13; ESTC R202813	3,401	7

A LETTER UNTO Mr. Stubs In answer to his Oceana weighed c. SIR to begin with the best piece of your work your quotations in the title page spoiled with ill application I shall first set right You see that all Councils all things are upon the Rota upon the wheele from that Rota onely which I suppose you meane what came forth came forth unfoiled and as it went in We do not by this trial despaire but with a little fense the right institution of such a societie may come to compare with Picadilly play-houses or horse-matches but if these be yet preferred then indeed Amphora caepit Institui currente Rota cur urcens exit Thus applied there may be sense in this quotation So for your other had it been affixed unto your former book and applied to your self or those unto whom you wrote journey work for Oligarchy it might have been well said as in Asinar Nunc enim hic est Negotiosus interdius videlicet Polon est Leges ut conscribat quibus se populus non teneat Gerrae Qui sese parere apparent huius legibus profecto Nunquam bonae frugi stent Thus taken you know it is true And so your Title page being in part rectified I come To your Preface Mr. Harrington saies That without a national Religion there can be no libertie of conscience And you answer That in Athens and Rome there were National Religions therefore in Athens and Rome there was no libertie of conscience which is so much the more absurd in that you cite Petit for confirmation of your consequence who affirms the contrary and that by undeniable authorities as may be seen in the second third and fourth pages of his discourse upon the Attick Laws the sum whereof amounts unto thus much That albeit there were in Athens Laws for the National Religion yet it by Law was in the Areopagites also to give liberty unto any other way of worship which liberty so given was Law and became a mans right whether it were to a publick or private way of worship in which manner it is affirmed proved by the same Petit that into Athens besides the National Religion of that Countrie were introduced the Religions of almost every other countrie The same he affirmeth of Rome where notwithstanding the National Religion therein established by Romulus it is vulgarly known that scarce any Countrie was subdued by them whose Religion they did not insert into their own And where is your truth who say That Mr. Harrington entertaines us with discourse of Pauls trial at Athens Where doth he say that Paul was tried there or what saith he of Pauls preaching there other then is affirmed by other pens as that particularly of Grotius But out of this you fall merrily as thus Once upon a time there was a man called William Thomas therefore William and Thomas must for evermore be one and the same man This is your way of disputing which you carry on in like manner for example thus Every man is to be taxed for that estate whereof he is not owner Now Oceana is an estate whereof Mr. Harrington is not owner Therefore Oceana is an estate for which we are to tax Mr. Harington If the minor be denied as that Oceana is an estate whereof Mr. Harington is not owner your discourse implies this or the like proof of it Where any one man and no other is the constant defender of one and the same estate or propriety that one and the same estate or proprietie is not his but some others But Mr. Harington and no other is the constant defender of Oceana Therefore Oceana is no estate or propriety of Mr. Harringtons but of some other Now if it please you To the Body of your Work Sir to a man who pretends not to understand a language it is no shame not to understand that language but it is a shame to a man and a Schollar who pretends to sense not to understand sense If I shall make it plaine that in this point you come short I shall have vindicated the Greek of your Authours from your ignorant application of the same without troubling the Reader with any more languages then his mother tongue You in pretending to have found Oceana light weigh only Sparta nor that truly First Because the Senate of Sparta was instituted by Lycurgus you argue That it was not instituted eligible by the people whereas all Authors particularly Aristotle lib. 4. cap. 9. affirm That the Magistracies in Sparta were all chosen by the people as that of Senator or chosen and also born by the people as that of Ephori For the mistakes you lay unto Mr. Harrington in the Greek as That the Tribes in Lacedemon were pre-existent to the Oracle what maketh that to the purpose And that the word Obae doth not signifie Linages you will hardly perswade seeing Aymiot thought to be as good an Interpreter of the Greek as Mr. Stuls in rendring the Oracle hath these words Aprez que tu auras divisé le peuple en ligniees But I will not trouble the Reader with forreign Languages things indisputable shall hereafter be brought for interpretation of the words you dispute at a dear rate giving so much Greek for two pence as you have made not worth an half penny Mr. Harrington states the Common-wealth of Sparta thus Lycurgus instituted a Senate eligible by the people for life with right to debate and propose and a popular Assembly with power to resolve To which he adds the place in Plutarch Lycurgus having thus tempered the form of this Common-wealth it seemed nevertheless to them who came after that the small number of thirty persons and for life whereof this Senate consisted was the cause of greater force and Authority in the fame then was convenient for which cause to hold in this same Senate they the people gave them the Senate as Plato saith the curb which was the Power and Authority of the Ephori Magistrates created about one hundred and thirty years after the death of Lycurgus in the time of King Theopompus who to his wife reproaching him in disdain that he must thus basely leave his Kingdom less unto his Successors then he had received of his Predecessors Made Answer That he should leave it greater in regard that it would be more firm and durable Hereby it is apparent when the Senate upon these advantages of fewness and for life began to propose perversely unto the people then the people began to add diminish pervert and evert what the Senate proposed that is they began as in like cases is inavoidable to debate And the people thus taking upon them to debate Polydorus and Theopompus being Kings indeavoured to add unto the fundamental Lawe That if the people did not determine well then the Senators and the Kings should stop the procedure Hereupon for the defence of their fundamental Laws the people erected the Court of the Ephori consisting of annual Magistrates chosen by and out of themselves and with power to question any of their Kings or Senators upon their lives that should go about to pervert those Laws Thus by this patch of the Ephori came that flaw in Sparta wherewith Mr. Harrington for that reason proposing otherwise is not concerned to be amended And this is the account he gives of that Common-wealth which you perverting the whole story go about to weigh otherwise 1. Inferring that the people were guilty of those miscarriages which it is plain proceeded from the Senate and were rectified by the people in the institution of that Curb upon the Senate as is plainly shewn by Plutarch in the institution of the Ephori 2. You infer from you know not what that the Senate had a Negative Vote and yet confesse that the people had no right to debate Whereas to leave words or Canting for yonr Greek as you use it amounts to no more and come as I said to the undeniable Testimony of things or of sense If the popular Assembly had no right to debate how should the Senate have a Negative Or if the popular Assembly had right to the result only then who but themselves could have the Negative Contra rationem nemo sobrius contra experientiam nemo sanus For that which you alledge out of Demosthenes as that he calleth the Senate of Sparta Lords of the people it can considering the nature of this Common-wealth which Isocrates to the Areopagites affirms to be popular be no otherwise understood then as they who have the like function I mean of debating and proposing unto the Parliament in Scotland are called Lords of the Articles Lord in this sense as you in great letters setting a mark upon your ignorance and not interpreting your text would imply doth not signifie Sovereign for neither are the Lords of the Articles sovereign nor doth Demosthenes affirm that of the Senate of Sparta But where the Proposers are few and for life as in Lacedemon and as the greater Nobility or Officers in Scotland they may in some sense be called Lords of the people though not they but the people have the result To conclude Mr. Harrington hath long since shewed that among the Greeks the words Oligarchy and Democracy were understood in such manner that where the popular Assembly had the result only there the Common-wealth was sometimes called Oligarchy especially if the proposing Counsel consisted of few and for life as in Sparta and where the people had not only the result but debate also that was called Democracy as in Athens Hence that an Oligarchist in your sense or one that hath endeavoured to make Helots and Gibeonites or servants of such as are now his Lords and Masters is no Ideot there is no consequence even for what hath happened in our dayes Quid verba audio cum facta videam c. March 6. 1659. FINIS LONDON printed for J. S. 1660.