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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A91210	The Levellers levelled to the very ground. Wherein this dangerous seditious opinion and design of some of them; that it is necessary, decent, and expedient, now to reduce the House of Peeres, and bring down the Lords into the Commons House, to sit and vote together with them, as one House. And the false absurd, grounds whereon they build this paradox, are briefly examined, refuted, and laid in the dust. / By William Prynne, Esquire.	Prynne, William, 1600-1669.	1648 (1648)	Wing P4001; Thomason E428_7; ESTC R20341	22,072	30

holding a Parliament or making Lawes without the Lords is a sign of an intoxicated brain Fiftly I find in 21 E. 3. nu 58. 21 E. 3. n. 60. 37 E. 3. n. 12 34. 50 E. 3. n. 12 13. and the yeer-book of 39 E. 3. 7. b. that the King and Lords in Parliament * See the Free holders grand Inquest have made binding laws without the Commons in some cases but not the King and Commons without the Lords And in the Parliament of 6 E. 3. Parl. 2. n. 7. the Commons had license to depart the parliament but the Lords were commanded to attend the King the next morning to advise him So that there is far more colour in point of Presidents to prove that the King and Lords may make Laws and grants of aydes as the Lords did by and for themselves 3 E. 3. n. 4 5. Parl. 2. 13 E. 3. n. 7. without the Commons then the King and Commons without the Lords Sixtly to this that the Knights Citizens and Burgesses in parliament have a greater voyce then the greatest Earl in parliament because they represent the Countries Cities and Burroughs from whence they come and the Earl but himself I answer first that the reason holds not for if this were true then every Knight Citizen and Burgesse that serves for the greatest Counties Cities and Burroughs should have a greater voyce and power in the Commons house then those that serve for lesser and the smallest because they represent and assent and vote for more Freeholders Citizens and Burgessers then they and by the same reason the lesser and poorer Peers should have a lesser voyce in the Peers house then the greatest and richest which we know is false and absurd Secondly many Peers are of greater worth value estate and interest in relation to the Kingdom then many poor Burroughs and therefore by this reason their voices should be greater then both Burgesses serving for them Thirdly every Peer votes not onely for himself but for all the Nobility and whole State and Kingdom whereof he is a member as well and as much as any Commoner and therefore his voyce is as great as theirs As to the Lords negative voice in Parliament I answer first the King common Laws and Statutes of England have ever allowed and acknowledged it in all Ages Secondly to deny them this Priviledge is to make the whole house of Peers meaner then the meanest Burgesse who hath a negative voyce in all debates and votes that passe the Commons house yea to deny them to be freemen and make them worse then the Philistine Lords who had a negative voyce 1 Sam. 29. 2 to 12 And to make them give their cōsents to whatever the Cōmons shall carry by their plurality of Votes though it be but by one or two is to set up Popish blind obedience and implicit faith yea to destroy that liberty of conscience and judgement which the Objectors Levellers and Army do pretend they fight and so earnestly contest for Thirdly there are sundry presidents in our Parliament Rolls of the Lords negative voyces in Parliaments I shall instance onely in two or three The first in print in the Statute of Marlbridge 20 H. 3. c. 3. The Bishops and Clergie importuned the Lords that they would consent that all such as were born afore Matrimony should be legitimate as well as those who were born within Matrimony as to the succession of Inheritance for so much as the Church accepteth such for legitimate And ALL THE EARLS AND BARONS WITH ONE VOICE answered NOLUMUS c. WE WILL NOT CHANGE THE LAWS OF THE REALM which hither to have been used and approved Here the Lords negative voyce hindered the alteration of the common Law against the Bishops and Clergies importunate Vote to change it So in the Parliament of 28 E. 3. nu 25. the Commons desired that any man attainted upon a writ of Oyer and Terminer might bring his Attaint hanging the suits against the other To this the answer on the Roll is THE LORDS WILL NOT ALTER THE ORDER OF THE LAW The like negative answer you may read in 21 E. 3. n. 12 29. 1 R. 2. n. 34 69 111. 2 R. 2. n. 57 58. Parl. 1. Parl. 2. n. 48. and sundry other Rols Therefore to inferre any thing from these erronious passages against the Lords Louse Votes Judicature or negative voyce is but the blind following of the blind and contradict all Parliament Records History Antiquity and Law it self and approve and establish their authority judicature and distinction from the Commoners Finally it is evident by the Parliament Rols of 6 E. 3. Parl. 2. n. 3. 13 E. 3. Par. 2. n. 7 8. 15 E. 3. n. 6 7 9 17 18 35 37. 17 E. 3. n. 9 11 12 59. 18 E. 3. n. 10. 21 E. 3. n. 4 5 70. 22 E. 3. n. 3 4 29. 22 E. 3. Parl. 2. n. 6 7. 27 E. 3. n. 4. 29 E. 3. n. 10. 36 E. 3. n. 6 7. 40 E. 3. n. 8. 42 E. 3. n. 7. 47 E. 3. n. 5 6 12. 50 E. ● n. 3 8 9 10 14. 51 E. 3. n. 18 19. 1 R. 2. n. 12 13. 2 R. 2. n. 10 23 to 29. 2 R. 2. Parl. 2. n. 6. 4 R. 2. n. 9 to 16. 5 R. 2. n. 13 to 31. 6 R. 2. n. 9 10 1● 6 R. 2. parl 2. n. 14 15. 6 R. 2. parl 3. n. 8 9. 7 R. 2. n. 11. 7 R. 2. Parl. 2. n. 10 11. 13 R. 2. n. 6. 15 R. 2 n. 15. 16 R. 2. n. 6. 17 R. 2. n. 6 17 18 20 R. 2. 8 9 10 12 13 16 17. 21 R. 2. n. 8 9 16 to 21. That the Lords and Commons in the Parliaments of King Edward the third and Richard the second were distinct both in their debates con●ultations councels p●titions votes and places of sitting too 50 E. 3. n. 3 8. Sir John Knevet Chancellour of England having declared the causes of calling that Parliament before the King Lords and Commons willed them to goe together THE LORDS BY THEMSELVES AND THE COMMOS BY THEMSELVES and speedily to consult and give answer After which the Commons were willed to d●part TO THEIR ACCUSTOMED PLACE b●ing the Chapter house of the Abbot of Westminster whither they went In which place they likewise sate 2 R. 2. n. 10. 4 R. 2. n. 9. And in 15 E. 3. n. 17. 47 E. 3. n. 5 6. 50 E. 3. n. 8. 9. 51 E. 3. n. 18 19. 1 R. 2. n. 12 13 14. 5 R. 2. n. 14. 6 R. 2. Parl. 2. n. 15. 7 R. 2. Parl. 2. n. 10 11. The Commons came to THE LORDS HOUSE and required that certain of the Lords there named WOULD VOUCHSAFE TO CONFER WITH THE COMMONS whereupon they went to the Chamberlains chamber to confer with the Commons And at other times they were appointed to goe and consult with the Commons at some other place by the Lords order In 2 R. 2. Parl. 1. n.

Government of this Kingdom to unking the King unprince the Prince unlord the Lords and quite destroy their House almost effected by expulsions and impeachments of most of their Members by degrees who have scarce enough left to make up an house which it is high time for them the Commons to observe yea a project to extirpate Monarchy and Nobility and set up a popular Anarchy and Polarchy And therfore who ever hath plotted and fomented it is more guilty of high Treason then Strafford Canterbury or the Gun-powder Traitors and deserves a severer punishment then they underwent even by the hands of the Parliament it self and all that are wel-wishers to Parliaments or Kingdom though no friends to Peers Ninthly this division of the Houses is First a great honour to the Parliament and Houses savouring of greater Majesty State and Order then their joyning into one and giving every estate its * 31 H. 8. ● 1● du● place and ranke Secondly a great ease and benefit to the Subject who may make his Addresses and Petitions to either at his election for reliefe Thirdly a great dispatch and expedition to all publike affaires one House fitting and preparing them for the Debat concurrence of the other at one and the same time as Committees of each House prepare and expedite businesses for the whole House Fourthly a means of more speedy justice by the Commons preparing of Articles and evidence for complaints and impeachments presented by them to the Lords whiles they are dispatching other businesses and their hearing Writs of Errour and other causes whiles the Commons are upon other debates which they could not do in one house but joyntly together and successively not with so quick dispatch and such good order as now Fifthly a thing very necessary and advantagious to the Kingdom and people and safest for the Parliament in that the Lords upon their second debates and conferences with the Judges and others many times amend and rectifie divers errours imperfections and mistakes in the over-hasty Votes yea deliberate Orders Ordinances Bils and Declarations of the Commons which the Commons acknowledge by their assents unto their amendments and oft times the Commons stay some Votes Orders Bils Ordinance sent down to them by the Lords and their several amendments and dislikes with the conferences and debates occasioned thereupon and second considerations of Businesses Votes Ordinances Orders Bils Declarations and the like make them more profitable compleat and valid and lesse liable to exceptions and evasions then else they would have been In all which respects this division of the Houses and the Lords and Kings negative voyces rightly considered and used are not onely convenient but expedient and absolutely necessary for the publike good whatever Lilburn and his ignorant Levellers fancy to the contrary I shall therefore close up this with that wholesome and seasonable advice of Solomon Prov. 24. 21 22. My sonne feare thou the Lord and the King and meddle not with those WHO ARE GIVEN TO CHANGE For their calamity shall rise suddenly and who knoweth the ruine of them both There is onely one Objection to be removed Object wherewith I shall arme the Levellers that so I may leave nothing unanswered that may be hereafter insisted on And that is this passage in Modus tenendi Parliamentum We must know that for the granting of such help and ayd to the King it hehooveth THAT ALL THE PEERS OF THE PARLIAMENT AGREE And we must understand that two Knights which come to the Parliament for the Shiers and Countries out of which they come have a greater voyce in Parliament TO GRANT then THE GREATEST EARL in England And after the same manner the Procters for the Clergie or Clerks of the Convocation-house for one Bishoprick have a greater voyce in Parliament if they all agree then the Bishop himself And this is true in all things which ought to be granted or denyed to the party or are to be done therein And this is manifest BECAUSE THE KING MAY HOLD A PARLIAMENT WITH THE COMMOMALTY AND COMMONS OF THE KINGDOM WITHOUT BISHOPS EARLS AND BARONS yet so as they be summoned to the Parliament although no Bishop Earl or Baron come according to their summons BECAUSE IN TIMES PAST NEITHER WAS THERE BISHOP EARL OR BARON and yet EVEN THEN KINGS KEPT THEIR PARLIAMENT But it is far otherwise on the other side for though the Commonalty to wit Laity and Clergie were summoned to the Parliament as of right they ought to be yet for some certain causes they would not come as if they did pretend that the King did not govern them as he ought and in speciality point out the Articles in which he misgoverned them as he ought TUNC PARLIAMENTUM NULLUM EST OMNINO l So the Latin the English being nonsence and mistranslated in many places then there is no Parliament at all though all the Archbibishops Bishops Earls and Barons and and all the Peers should be present with the King And therefore it behooveth that all things which ought to be affirmed or informed granted or done by the Parliament should be granted by the Commonalty of the Parliament which consists of three degrees or kinds assembled in Parliament to wit of the Practors of the Clergie the Knights of the Shires the Citizens and Burgesses who represent the whole Commonalty of England and not of Noble men because every one of them is for his own proper person present at the Parliament and for no other Which Master m Holinshead Chron. of Irel. p. 127 128. John Vowel in his Order and Vsage how to keep a Parliament seconds in these words If the King in due order have summoned all his Lords and Barons and they will not come or if they come they will not yet appear or if they come and appear and will not doe no● yeeld to any things THEN THE KING WITH THE CONSENT OF THE COMMONS MAY ORDAIN AND ESTABLISH ANY ACTS OR LAWS WHICH ARE AS GOOD SVFFICIENT AND EFFECTVALL AS IF THE LORDS HAD GIVEN THEIR CONSENTS But on the contrary if the Commons be summoned and will not come or comming will not appear or appearing will not consent to do any thing alledging some just weighty or great cause the King in those cases cannot with the Lords devise make or establish any Law The reasons are these When Parliaments were first began and ordained there were no Prelates or Barons of the Parliament and the temporal Lords were very few or none and then the * In what age was there ever such a Parliament of King and Commons onely King and his Commons did make a full Parliament which authority was NEVER YET ABRIDGED Again every Baron in Parliament doth represent his own person and speaketh in the behalf of himself alone but in the Knights Citizens and Burgesses are represented the Commons of the whole Realm and every of these giveth consent not onely for himself but for all those

THE LEVELLERS Levelled to the very GROUND WHEREIN This dangerous Seditious Opinion and design of some of them That it is necessary decent and expedient now to reduce the House of Peeres and bring down the Lords into the Commons House to sit and Vote together with them as one House And the false absurd grounds whereon they build this Paradox are briefly examined refuted and laid in the dust By William Prynne Esquire PROV 19. 10. Delight is not seemly for a Foole much lesse for a Servant to rule over Princes ECCLES 10. 5 7. There is an evill I have seen under the Sun as an errour which proceedeth from the Ruler I have seene Servants upon Horses and Princes walking as Servants upon the earth LONDON Printed by T. B. for Michael Spark 1647. THE LEVELLERS LEVELLED IT was the Apostle Pauls Doctrine and that he likewise gave in speciall charge to Titus c. 3. 1. Put them in minde to be subject to principalities and Powers to obey Magistrates to bee ready to every good work But this Doctrine now is little lesse then Heresie and meere Arbitrary Tyranny in the opinion of a New Generation of Levellers and seditious Sectaries sprung up among us since the Warres the very persons of whom Peter prophecyed in the latter times a 2 Pet. 2. 11. Who despise Dominion presumptuous selfe-willed they are not afraid to speake evill of Dignities and the things that they understand not and shall perish in their owne corruption How active and industrious these Fire-brands of Sedition have been by writing and petitioning to extirpate Monarchy and Magistracy Nobility and Gentry and how they move every stone to pull downe the House of Peeres and levell the Lords to the Commoners by bringing them downe into the Commons-House to sit and vote together with them as one or else not to sit or vote at all is visible to most and how many thousands of ignorant simple people they have ingaged to confederate with them in this pernicious designe hath been already discovered in part to the Houses the false suggestions and dangerous consequencies whereupon it is grounded I shall succinctly discover to undeceive the seduced people and take them off from such a desperate attempt which will prove destructive both to the Parliament and themselves too in conclusion These Lilburnists and Levellers pretend that it is not fit the Lords should fit and vote in a distinct House by themselves as they have done of latter times but that they and the Commons should now sit all together in one House to wit the House of Commons the b Lilburns and Overtons Petitions and late Letters The agreement of the people The remonstrance of many 1000 to their owne House of Comons and others ONELY SOVERAIGNE POWER OF THIS KINGDOME as they stile it as they did of * Methinkes these New Lights should not cry up and and revive old Presidents Patterns no more then old clothes fashions or Ceremonies old at first and be new moulded into a single House that so Bills Ordinances Votes and businesses of Parliament might passe with more expedition upon one Debate and Vote and not stay the Debates and Votes of two distinct Houses ere they be consummate And because the Lords are but few in number the sonnes of Conquest not of election representing onely themselvs but not the Commons of England represented onely by the Knights Citizens and Burgesses chosen and intrusted by them therefore it is just and reasonable the Lords should be levelled and brought down to the Commons House to sit and Vote with them and not enjoy any distinct or negative Votes among themselves as now they doe To answer these pretences I shall not insist upon the c See Mr. Seldens Tit of Hon. par 2. c 5 Spelm. Concil Tom. 1. Mr. Lamb. Archa Modus tenendi Parliamen orum Truth triumphing over falsh●od p. 56. to 76. Cooks 9. Report The Preface 4. Inst c. 1. Lords ancient and undoubted Right to sit and Vote in Parliaments long before the Conquest from the first beginning of Parliaments to this present Nor on their activity and readinesse in all ages to oppose with the losse and hazzard of their estates heads lives the encroachments of our Kings upon the Subjects Liberties and vindicate the peoples freedomes in the d See Mat. Pa. Mat. Westm Walsingham H●linshed Speed Graf on Trussel Daniel The. 1 2. 3. Par. of the Soveraign power of Parliaments Reigns of King John Henry the 3. Edward 2. Richard 2. and other oppressive Princes against whose invasions of the Kingdomes Lawes and Rights they have ever beene the principall Bulwarkes and of late the chiefe procurers of this present Parliament and undertakers of our defensive warre against the King wherein the Earle of Essex Lord Brook Lord Willoughby and others of them first appeared Nor yet to debate their ancient and undoubted power and right of Judicature in civill and criminall cases of Commoners as well as Peers in all times and Ages since there were Parliaments of which there are infinite presidents in Histories Parliament Rols and Journalls and sundry disclaimers of the whole House of Commons of being Judges in Parliament as in 1. R. 2. Rot. Parl. n. 38 39 40. 1 H. 7. Rot. Parl. n. 79. and Plac. Coronae nu 11. to 17. and other Rolls I shall wholly addresse my selfe to answer such Allegations as are most pertinent touching the point of reducing both Houses into one in such manner as is projected First then I answer what though it be probable by Modus tenendi Parliamentum that the King Lords and Commons anciently sat in one roome and went in at one common doore in King Edwards the Confessors time yet it follows not they all sat and voted together as one intire house no more then it follows all the Judges and Officers of the Kings Courts of Chancery Kings Bench and Common Pleas sit in one common Room and go in at one doore at Westminster Hall therefore they all sit judge and heare causes together and are or ought to be reduced to one Court and do not judge and heare causes severally nor ought to do it there being no one Author or record of credit extant which proves directly that the Lords and Commons did ever sit vote or act together as one intire house and passe Billes Judgements Ordinances Orders by one undivided and united Vote the thing which should be proved Secondly when by whom and upon what occasion the Houses first came to be divided is altogether uncertain for ought appeares by history or records e 4. Instit p. 2. ●n Sir Edward Cook conceives that both houses sat together in 5. 6. Ed. 3. and that about that i me or a little after they were first divided when the Commons first chose a Speaker But the Records of these Parliaments do not necessarily warrant his conjecture herein since they speak only of the meeting together of the three

to the Commons Sixthly admit the Houses might without any inevitable mischiefes and contradictions be modeled and united into one yet to bring downe the Lords into the Commons House to sit and Vote like Commons with them is no wayes tollerable or to be thought on but with indignation for these reasons First because the whole Commons House it selfe when they present their Speaker to the King and Lords which will be abolished by this union or when any Bills are to be passed by the Royall Assent upon the k Cook 4 Inst p. 28. 33 H. 8. c. 21. 3 Jac. c. 1. beginning and ending of every Parliament and upon some other speciall occasions have alwayes used to goe up and wait upon the House of Lords in person yea to stand bare at their Barre and to send their Members in person * See 5. R. 2. n. 16. up to the Lords upon any Message Cōference or other occasion but never did the whole House of Peeres in any age come downe in person to the Commons House or any Peeres of late bring Messages to them but onely send them by some Assistants as Judges Masters of Chancery c. Therefore now to talk of bringing down the House of Peeres to sit with the Commons in their House all one as to reduce a Noble mans Dining-roome to his Hall or Kitchin and levell the roofe and upper roomes of a house with the lowermost floore is such a dishonour and affront to the Lords that none but degenerate and ignoble spirits can so much as heare or think of it with patience nor no Peere resent it but with just scorne and contempt and rather dye then consent unto it without whose consents it cannot be done without both Houses ruine And to bring up the House of Commons to sit and Vote joyntly with the Peeres would be to advance the Cōmons above their degree not level the Lords to make some men Lords before they are Gentlemen every Commoner no lesse then a Lord which would too much puffe and bladder them with pride and make them slight those whom they represent who being but Commoners cannot be represented by Peeres or any sitting and Voting in the House of Peeres by the true fundamental Law and Custome of Parliaments as Sir l Instit 4. p. 8 46 47. Edward Cooke resolves Secondly if the Lords should bee brought downe into the Commons House which is much like the reducing of the head and shoulders of the naturall body into the belly or legges which would make a Monster and destroy the man there would be no roome for them their Officers and Assistants unlesse enlarged and metamorphosed into another forme Thirdly If the Lords must bee brought downe into the Commons House then the * See Cook 4. Inst p. 14 15. King and Prince as well as they or else they must be totally excluded the Parliament or sit alone by themselves in the House of Lords without any Lords to attend them An indignity which no King or Prince can brooke and no modest Commoner seriously thinke of but with detestation nor Lord nor King consent to but by force and violence and without their voluntary consents it will not be valid but destructive Seventhly The false pretext for it of expediting Bills Ordinances and Votes is an absurd and ignorant fancie of over-hasty spirits who would act all things in a hurry without good deliberation For first nothing ought to bee done in Parliament but upon full and mature debate and deliberation of all the circumstances and probable consequences of it in future time a thing now seldome considered Diu deliberandum quod semel statuendum Festina lente are safe rules in Parliament especially in passing publike Acts and Ordinances in making Warre or Peace or any Nationall Leagues and Agreements Secondly Hasty Dogges bring forth blinde Whelpes and hasty Votes over sudden Councels and Motions lame blinde contradictory unjust and inconsiderate Orders Ordinances Acts which must either be corrected supplyed or repealed by Additionals of which we have had too many experiments since this Parliament which in many Votes Ordinances Orders and Impeachments hath made more haste then good speed and Voted sometimes both absurdities and impossibilities witnesse the Commons Votes for the Tryall of Mac-Guire and Mac-Mohun in the Kings-Bench the very first day of the Terme before any Indictment drawne found or any Jury summoned to finde it for the Tryall of Judge Jenkins in the Kings-Bench by a short day for Treason aleaged to be committed in Wales before any Indictment found in the Country or removed into Court and the like which I only mention to satisfie and answer the Objectors nor to defame the House or Houses whose Honours and Reputations have beene much blemished through the inconsiderate rashnesse of some ignorant Members who poasted on such Votes and Impeachments Thirdly this dividng the Houses will breed infinite disorder and confusion * 4. Instit q. 2. not expedition in their proceedings as the premises manifest and destroy their very formes and method upon which ground Sir * Witnesse Dr Levtons Dr. Bastwicks Mr Burtons my own Mr. Walkers Mr. Foxleys the Chesterwars and many others about Ship-money and other grievances Edward Cooke writes they were first divided Fourthly it will be a great retarding and obstruction to publike Justice especially in Writs of Errour and all such things which the Lords may dispatch or judge without the Commons House where many hundreds of Petitions and businesses heard and Voted above seven yeeres since doe yet stick without report or transmission to the Lords to the great dishonour and scandall of their proceedings and speedy justice which had been dispatched and ended many years past had they first petitioned to the Lords for redresse So as the Lords House is clearly no cause of delay but the Commons rather through their long debates or want of method which debates would bee increased and lengthned by adding of the Lords unto them who can now debate and determine things apart and resolve two or three things or more whiles the Commons are debating one And therefore if delay be the onely cause of reducing the Lords House to the Commons the Commons certainly are rather to be reduced then the Lords and may bee better spared of the two even by k His letter to a friend his letters to Henry Martyn and Cromwel Innocency and Truth justified Englands Birth-right the late Petition of many free-born people of England Lilburnes and his Confederates Libells and Petitions their delayes being not a quarter to one so many nor one quarter so long as the Commons as themselves must and do acknowledge Eightly this whole design is a direct breach of the solemn League and Covenant a subversion of the Law and Custome of Parliaments a device to destroy both Houses under pretext of reducing them into one an engine to dissolve this present and all future Parliaments to alter the fundamentall Lawes and