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A88107 The nevv quere, and determination upon it, by Mr. Saltmarsh lately published, to retard the establishment of the Presbyteriall government, examined, and shewed to be unseasonable, unsound, and opposite to the principles of true religion, and state. Whereunto is annexed a censure of what he hath produced to the same purpose, in his other, and later booke, which he calleth The opening of Master Prinnes Vindication. And an apologeticall narrative of the late petition of the Common Councell and ministers of London to the Honourable Houses of Parliament, with a justification of them from the calumny of the weekly pamphleters. / By John Ley, one of the Assembly of Divines at Westminster. Ley, John, 1583-1662. 1645 (1645) Wing L1885; Thomason E311_24; ESTC R200462 96,520 124

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and not doubt they would see a good issue and good content they need not feare they may be kept a while from their desires but in the end they will have content if their owne earnest pressing for it doe not hinder Now let us come home It would be well Sir if you would come home and keepe at home and take measure of your owne parts and sit close to your Trade and not ramble abroad to busie your selfe in writing Intelligence of matters which are farre above the elevation of your Pole or the comprehension of your head-piece But your zeale perhaps such a zeale as the Apostle taxeth which is without knowledge Rom. 10.2 just like a pressing-iron which hath heat without light stirred you up to complaine of some troublesome spirits who while the Army is labouring to end strife begin it anew and they are such say you as Fame saith have been the causes of all the strife and who be they Fame saith the late Deputie of Ireland and the little Drelate of Canterburie were prime causes of the Kingdomes and the Churches disturbance And are they since their heads were cut off as Herod thought of John Baptist Mark 6.16 raised from the dead to revive our divisions Common Fame saith the Queene and her Faction that have parted the King and the Parliament Digby Hopton Goring Greenvile and other Military male-contents have caused and doe still continue the most dangerous contentions and convulsions in England as Moutrosse and his party in Scotland Ormond and his barbarous and bloody Papists in Ireland But we must looke for these make bates at home and find out such as at present doe trouble our peace and if we doe so Fame saith that they are such among us as oppose the settling of an uniforme Government and breake out communities into severall Sects such as so divide the husband from the wife the parents from the children the master from the servants that a zealous Ioshua cannot say I and my house will serve the Lord Iosh 24.15 since his family is distracted and sorted into severall Congregations and it may be also into hereticall conventicles Fame saith that such factious journeymen as Mr. D. are publique Incendiaries and Trumpeters of Sedition by taking all occasions making use of all advantages casting about for all manner of devices to increase their divided partie that they may be able to uphold a faction and because they cannot hope that their noveltie and paucitie should be able to maintaine a publique contest against so many both persons and Churches as are engaged against their way they make it their Master-piece to leaven the most considerable Societies Cities Sea-Townes Armies but especially the Parliament with their Independent Principles and practices and either to get Independents into places of chiefe power and trust or to seduce such as are eminent in dignitie endowments or authoritie to their side and if they cannot obtaine them they plot how to displace them and if they cannot doe that to render them lesse serviceable to the Publique their way is to weaken their reputation with reproaches or cunningly to intimate some matter of suspition touching their acts or intentions if they be of such integritie as is of impregnable proofe against their obloquie then they will by way of compliance worke out of them what they can which may conduce to their designe and if they can prevaile no further they will at least by an artificiall sweetnesse of behaviour by appearances of more then ordinary piety by a pretended extenuation of difference of opinion and practice and by such insinuations so becalme or becharme the spirits of some Presbyterians of eminent parts as to make them if not favourable to their cause yet so that they may not appeare against them when they should or but in a very remisse and moderate degree of opposition Lastly to returne to our Intelligencer they set up weekly Pamphleters who are wholly of their stampe or fee them or by some other artifices worke upon them to take all occasions to magnifie their partie and to vilifie and calumniate those that oppose them and so they sometimes hyperbolize a Shrub on that side into a Cedar and disparage those who under God are the chiefe pillars and supporters of the publique welfare as if they were of no more worth or use then Reeds shaken with the wind and this is not the least part of the Independent policy to drive on their designe all over the Kingdome for most of the common people know little of the progresse of publique affaires but by such Informers and they furnish them with weekly lies to honour those of their owne sect or sects rather for they are many and to cast reproaches on such as are serious and resolute in all just and lawfull meanes of establishing of truth and restoring of peace But it may be he meaneth by Fame that report which he and his fellowes in loose sheets have dispersed abroad in City and Countrey and if so I say Famaest malum his fame is infamous notoriously false as he applyeth it viz. to those who make addresses to the Parliament by way of Petition We did intreat saith he the last weeke they would let the Parliament alone and wait and no doubt they would see a good issue and good content We did intreat them to let the Parliament alone We Sir who besides your selfe and why you and what meane you by letting the Parliament alone doe you forbid the subject of England to petition the Parliament if that be your meaning as a man of Moderate Intelligence may easily perceive it is do you not mean they should be deprived of the most undoubted Priviledge and Libertie which by the Law of Nature and of Nations is allowed all over the world if the Parliament had beene of that mind since their first Session they would not have tendred so many Petitions to the King nor have received so many Petitions from all parts of the Kingdome nor could they but by the informations received in them have knowne so much of the distemper of severall Counties nor had so just grounds and causes as they had for many of their Orders and Ordinances which were issued out from that Honourable Senate and your selfe say in the next page that a part of the Parliaments Answer to the Citie Petition was that the Citizens were intreated hereafter that they would take satisfaction from themselves that is satisfaction of their doubts and desires by immediate recourse to that Honourable Court and how can that be better or more acceptably done then by way of petition But he saith They need not feare they may be kept a while from their desires but in the end they will have content if their own earnest pressing for it doe not hinder How knowes he that better then they who have put up their desires for expediting the difficulties of the Government by way of petition to the Parliament The truth is if he beleeve
both ingenuous and religious correspondence doth dispose them for no where in the Protestant Churches so farre as I have read or received by report are good Ministers better accepted of or more respectively used then in this City nor by any Citizens more then by those who are most worthy of honour and is cannot but be the desire as well as the duty of godly Ministers to advance them as much as may be in the estimation of the people and to presse upon them obedience according to their duty and dependence for conscience sake And though it be obvious to common observation how much the Magistrates favour maketh for the Ministers honour and succour it is not unknowne nor unobserved by the wise that the Ministers have been very serviceable to the Civill State and to the Military too not onely by their supplications to God for good successe to all their publique undertakings and their happy proceedings in all their warlike marches and motions as at the removall of the Arke Numb 10.35 Rise up Lord and let thine enemies be scattered let them that hate thee flee before thee but by their informations and soli●itations of the people to engage both their estates and persons in the Cause of God and their Countrey and I could name such at have b●●● looked on by the blood sh●tten ●yes of professed enemies and fained by them by way of most hatefull repr●ach at the Authours of the Rebellion of whole Counties that is in the true sense of their charge the perswaders of them not to betake themselves to a divided party but to unite in the union of the King and Parliament And I am sure that some of them who have been envied and reviled in Print by libellous Schismaticks as growing rich upon the revenues of fat sequestrations when by a just accompt they have come short of a competent subsistence have been offered both riches and honour in the Kings name by persons of eminent degree to imploy their parts in his Majesties service the termes were no worse the intention likely not so good and have modestly and yet resolutely refused them then when it seemed both most profitable and honourable to a●cept them and not a little dangerous to withstand rewards when there was power to call for observance by minatory commands And it was then an advantage visible enough which the King had above the Parliament as the Pope hath above a Councell that the dispo●all of Church dignities was held in right and exercised in fact as a branch of the Royall Prerogative whence arose the Proverbe which made so many Ecclesiasticall Courtiers No fishing to the Sea No service to the King and by the power and Court Countenance that such had over the inferior Ministers both they by the Prelaticall Clergie and the people by them were made more obsequious and serviceable to whatsoever constitutions and impositions which came upon them whether from the Civill or Ecclesiasticall Authority And though wee have cause to multiply our benedictions as David did 1 Sam. 25. ●2 33. Blessed be God and blessed be the Parliament and blessed be their advice not only to themselves but to all the Kingdom that the heavie yoke of the domineering Hi●rarchy is taken off our neckes yet betwixt the Magistrates and the people the godly Ministers of the Kingdome and ordinarily the Ministers of this Citie especially for the Synod of Divines is an extraordinary Assembly will be alwayes as least instrumentally profitable for the promoting and upholding of a conformity and commodious correspondence on both sides according to the Relations wherein for the glory of God and the publique welfare they are mutually obliged to each other In pr●posall of these particulars to your Lordship I shall not be thought to present you with an impertinent discourse by any thus will consider bow much the union of three Kingdoms depends upon the union of this Metropolis or mother Citie with the Parliament above it the Ministry within it and all the sister Cities and daughter Townes and Villages round about it and how much the union of this City now depends upon your Honour and I doubt not but that by Gods speciall providence your Honour was reserved for such a time as this when by a prudent and zealous and authoritative endevour for the cure of the manifold distractions among us you may be a blessed meanes to keepe off the destruction from us which is threatned by our Saviour to a Kingdome and there is the like danger to any either City or family given over to division Matth. 12.25 wherein your Lordship and your Venerable Colleagues may have the deepest share in suffering according to the measure of your eminent prelations in honour and estate above ordinary Citizens if which God forbid violent and unruly spirits should not be circumscribed with the virge of your awfull authoritie To this end though the Presbyterian Government may be very subservient and the Ministers of the City will be alwaies ready as their faculties furnish them with abilitie and their duties oblige them with diligence to serve your Honour yet since that is set up but in part and for a good part subiect to dispute as your power is not for it is wholly compleat and no way questionable the through reformation of this spatious and populous Citie next under God and the Parliament will more depend upon your head for counsell your heart for affection and your hand for execution then on any humane helpe or meanes whatsoever it be And if in regard of newly emergent mischiefs for Satan infus●th into his Agents new fancies and devices and stirreth them up to dangerous Innovations every day you find not ready remedies for all present or imminent evils within the bounds of your municipall Charters you are so neere the well-head and spring of Civill Government the Legislative Senate at Westminster that you may easily and speedily procure a supplement of power for any service that may conduce to the safety of the Parliament and Citie and with both by consequentiall operation and virtuall influence of many millions of subiects within the three Kingdomes united in the most Sacred bond of our solemne Covenant which may with more i●genuiti● be desired and with more facility be obtained because thereby the Parliament it selfe may be the better secured both from contemp● and tumult which may justly be feared from such an insolent and violent generation of fanaticke and some franticke Enthusiasts and other fiery spirited Separatists who account it the height of their Evangelicall zeale to bring downe the highest and most eminent Worthies of the State for true piety prudence dignitie and power under the feet of confused Anarchy and popularity Wherein that they meane to make no reserves of reverence for the supreme Senate of the Kingdome nor to allow any protection by priviledges of Parliament is clearly discovered in that most seditious Pamphlet besides many others called Englands Birthright For notwithstanding the present
encroachments upon the rights of Ministers and people and it may be because you are no Ionasses to be willing to be cast into the Sea to save the Ship and passengers in it you may have in your thoughts some Military commotion of your owne making for you know or may know that bloody words lyable to such a sence and tending to the like effect have beene more then once laid to the charge of some of your side as hath beene noted pag. 76. And if your dangerous consequence be but a fiction and pretence which I rather imagine it must be supposed to be but a cast of your subtilty to make the simple afraid of and to beget a mistrust of some dangerous designe in the Ministers that they may desert them and adhere unto you as men of prudent insight into imminent mischieves and of provident forecast to secure them from danger who betake themselves to your cause and complices for succour and safety Which of these conjectures is true or whether any other any worse for a plaine Presbyterian is too shallow to sound the depth of a projecting Independent I will not determine but I will confidently resolve that such an imagination of transcendent danger in the Petition of the Ministers was no part of the mind of the major part of the House of Commons which must give denomination to the whole for they can never be so much mistaken as to put such an exuberant expression of offence upon so inoffensive a Petition who very well know and cannot but as well remember your Brother Lilburnes businesse and what seditious papers he and his faction sent abroad which if you had forgotten for I doubt not but such a schismaticall polypragm●●n as those that know you report you to be if not wise enough to be of his counsell may be busie enough to be active in his desperate designe I would helpe your memory with a repetition of some such passages out of them as might be worthy of your now misapplied aggravation of as dangerous consequence as may be imagined but that I thinke them fitter to be burned by the common Hangman or buried in everlasting oblivion then now to be mentioned especially in a Discourse of defence of the Innocent And truly Sir next unto Lilburnes Libels we may say of your malevolent Intelligence of this weeke that it is a matter of as dangerous consequence as may be imagined For doo not you as farre as your credit will carry a mischievous suggestion disperse all about a suspition of the Cities and Ministers combination against the two Houses of Parliament who have hitherto with honour and safetie very much confided in their affection and fidelitie as I doubt not they will ever have cause so to doe though such malignant medlers as you say and doe what they can to the contrary SECT XXIV Britanicus taxed for traducing the Petitioners YOur Athenian Colleague Britanicus though they that reade you both will haply take you to be rather a * Boeotion in crasso jurares aere natum Horat. Beotian hath a conceit of some disparagement to the Parliament by a supposed division though he lay his action wrong mistaking an occasion for a cause and one person for another whom though I first mention him in way of opposition to you I must take for an adversary to us I meane to the City and Ministry in this businesse of Petition and when I have given him an animadversion by the way I shall return unto and proceed with you It may prove saith he a train to blow up the reputation of the renowned Parliament and harden the enemy in their courses if they should see a doore of hope opened through any supposed divisions the common Adversary will take heart againe and those which favour them whether at home or abroad will dare again to shew themselves as not doubting to perfect their designe if we disjoynt our selves and contribute to our owne ruine Divisions among us divulged by you may animate the common Enemy to a greater height of hopes and attempts so much his observation implyeth and that 's your fault Mr. Intelligencer but he applyeth it to the Petitioners and that 's his calumny as well as yours It may prove saith hee a traine c. What is that that may prove so the Petition the Petition a traine to blow up the reputation of the Parliament Reade it Sir and you will see it is not a train● but a Trumpet to blow up their reputation with a loud sound and melodious accent with humble thankes acknowledging and highly extolling them by the name of A renowned Parliament for their indefatigable endevours for five years together for the Kingdoms happinesse and the Churches Reformation And can the Petition be charged to open a doore of hope to the enemies through supposed divisions from the Parliament when it expresly maketh the Parliament a doore of hope of much happinesse to the Kingdome It is an easie matter to turne the most innocent action or businesse into an occasion of exception but they are the causes for the particular in question both of disturbance to the Parliament and of danger from the common enemy who proclaime unkindnesse betwixt the Parliament and their most faithfull and serviceable Votaries the Common Councell and Ministers of the City of London This Retortion as by a kind of partnership belongeth to both these false Brethren but taking Britannicus by himselfe he beginneth at the beginning of the weeke by the figure Anticipation for the Petitions were not presented to the Honourable Houses untill two o● three dayes after and so he cometh over the matter againe upon Wednesday and Thursday In the first place he findeth fault with Petitioning as out of season and so indiscreet and as imputing neglect to the Parliament and implying distrust of the Indgment care of those whom we acknowledge the wisest and supreme Councell and so undutifull but neither so nor so for the purpose of Petitioning was so fanned and sifted by the free and impartiall debates of divers wise and worthy Citizens and by learned and well advised Ministers that if there had been any folly or indiscretion it would have vanished into nothing but Sir I can assure you of my knowledge the more it was weighed and examined the more it was approved by the prudent as well as the pious of both Societies not only as necessary but as seasonable also And if the Honourable Houses were intentively imployd to perfect the Government and did set themselves in a constant course and chose set dayes for that purpose and the day of presenting the Petition was one of them all which I beleeve and cannot thinke of it without thankes to them nor without praises of them and prayers for them yet was it not unseasonable to petition them because the concurrent desires of so many so considerable Petitioners might be a meanes to remove some obstructions Qui monet u● facias qu●d jam