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A85038 A Fuller answer to the moderatour, wherein his argument of advantage and disadvantage is so opened, as that he is laid open too, and made manifest to be an imposter, most grosly abusing king and kingdome. Worthy all men's observation, who, with an entire heart, wish peace to both. 1643 (1643) Wing F2487; Thomason E94_17; ESTC R13077 22,058 22

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peace and the peace of her Kingdome the maintenance of that which would effect all this establish her peace and theirs They besought her to remember her Promise touching the Gospell which being maintained in truth would stablish her Throne and Kingdome for ever so they besought her But they saw now that she spake to them before as a Lady that would be Queene and now as one that knew her selfe Queene and so answers them cleane crosse to expectation and Promise For indeed what she promised them before was the voice of words only and what she said afterwards was the voice of her heart The result of all this is That the Promise of the tongue is but the voice of words which may deceive a mans selfe as well as those that trust to it The voice of the heart is not heard till afterwards and what that will be the Man himselfe perhaps knowes not till time has told him how false the heart is so false that no man will trust it for a thousand experiences have told him That when he thought verily the heart spake it was but the tongue the voice of words the heart spake nothing that was silent The Moderatour goes on will tell us the Advantage of sillables and yet we will not think him a Conjurer M. But to goe on in our Argument of Advantage and Disadvantage The King is a syllable of as much Advantage as another Army A. And more we acknowledge it with as loyall hearts as once the people shewed to David Thou art worth Ten thousand of us d 2 Sam. ●2 3. So David was when he ruled with God and for God by His Law-booke and sitting in Gods Throne Gods Deputy and Vicegerent so considerable David was a syllable of such advantage to his Kingdome And the desire of our soules is That our King may be such an one so considerable and of that advantage to himselfe and to his whole Kingdome But so he is not as he is King but as he rules for God commands from His Mouth orders and directs all by Statute-law in his Law-booke If he goes crosse to this he is a syllable still Deut. 17. and of the greatest disadvantage to himselfe and Kingdome That is conceivable I remember a sad Story Jehoram Son of Ahab being with two more Kings in a great strait went downe to Elisha thinking himselfe a very considerable Person being King and that Elisha would respect him It was otherwise What have I to doe with thee said Elisha to the King get thee to the Prophets of thy Father and to the Prophets of thy Mother O say not so sayes 2 King 3. 13. the King send me not to them they cannot help me in this extremity And Elisha said As the LORD of Hosts liveth before whom I stand surely were it not that I regard the presence of Jehoshaphat the King of Judah I would not ver 14. looke towards thee nor see thee I relate it here for this very reason That we may know a King is not a syllable of Advantage if he rule not as a King by the Rule of Heaven and Law of his GOD. Againe we doe not well to put vertue and efficacy into syllables they have no more vertue in them then is in spells and that is to doe hurt and mischiefe for they worke in the Devils Name If I would put any virtue there I could say as much for Disadvantage The King is but one syllable no more is a Queene neither yet coming to Jerusalem she turned away the heart of the wisest King from God she darkened all his glory And afterwards she was of more disadvantage to all Judah then an Host of a Thousand thousand for such an Host could not hurt Judah nor the King thereof but a Queene destroyed the King and his house and his Kingdome We might goe on and shew the vir●ue and effecacy of monosyllables for disadvantage to King and Kingdome Blood but one syllable and yet the staine of it could never be remooved till Judah was remooved from out of Gods sight And when God makes inquisition for blood layes it reallizeth it upon the conscience it shall be shaken as Belshasars knees were when they smote one against the other So these Gods which Idolaters make so are but one syllable neither yet more skilfull to destroy Kingdomes then Armies are M. The King in his very Name is sacred and Powerfull and shakes the consciences of many A. Yes it is a sacred Name and powerfull and may shake the consciences of them that have so much as a disloyall thought against his sacred Majesty But it cannot shake them not their consciences who have resolutly held fast to the publike laid out themselves in maintaining the Cause of their God the Crowne of their King the glory of his Kingdome his Name cannot shake their consciences bearing them witnesse their God also that so they have done in sincerity and uprightnesse of heart And in this thing they appeale to God and stand better bottomed then the everlasting hills they cannot be mooved Nay the sacred Name of a King shakes no Man that does not see more in his King then in his God And many such there are that walk by sense they know their King but they know not their God with His help I shall unvaile their eyes anon only this here Doth this Name of a King and no more shake the consciences of men What can GOD doe then but one syllable neither He will shake them to peices their consciences are rotten already He will breake them as a Potters vessell who for feare of a Man have deserted His Cause the Truth the Gospell and what in them lies have given it up to the enemies hand God the KING of Kings and LORD of Lords will shatter these men to peeces who have turned head and taile both against their God their King and Countrey I will adde a word or two more for this is the killing Argument Your King goe against your King he is more considerable then an Army will you fight against him That has been Answered Ten times It shall have no Answer here If I could teach the Countrey man to speake who sees more in a King then he does in his God he should reply from Gods Mouth by way of Question too A GOD but one syllable yet of more Advantage then all the Armies in the world In His very Name He is sacred and terrible I heard Thy voice and I was afraid said Adam I heard Thy NAME sayes another and I trembled Shall I fight against GOD His Christ His Truth His terrour makes me afraid If I doe so as now the most doe He will hold me up to the wind and shake me to peeces for He is God heare Him what He saith Gird up thy loynes now like a man I will demand of thee and declare thou unto Mee Iob 40. 7. Wilt thou also disanull my judgement wilt thou condemne Me that thou
And then see how this Foole or Knave which you will for he is both hath matched it here with a little temporary reputation and then calls it nothing nothing but a resolution to hold fast to the publike good and that is all the Parliament hath to cement it selfe to fixe their party and to keep it from staggering a Resolution only to hold fast to the publike good They that are the Parliaments best friends can wish them no more to fixe and stablish them but such a Resolution if they have that they have all that concernes them in this matter for Blessed is that Man who is resolved to hold fast to the publike good for in such a businesse as this this is all and abundantly sufficient to fixe the person and to keep from staggering That he hath done his utmost laid-out and spent himselfe for the saving as we may call it indeed a distressed Church and State Surely though it be not saved which yet we doe not question yet this person may comfort himselfe as his LORD before him My judgement is with the Esa 49. 4. LORD and my work with my GOD. He has done his duty as afore-said not with so strong an hand but with as good an heart as Josiah did and that is his comfort and exceeding strong consolation Now he can remit the matters leave it in Gods Hands let Him doe what is good in His eyes he can now stand still and waight the salvation of GOD for he has done his duty Though and so the Moderatour goes on M. And this viz. a Resolution to hold fast to the publike good if things run so high as they doe now will be called Rebellious stobborunnesse and be branded with the foule imputation of Treason A. The Man sayes true Things doe run so high as that a Resolution to hold fast to the publike good is called Rebellion and Treason but it mooves not those whose spirits are fixed It was so in Ancient times they that were fiexdly resolved to hold to God His Christ His peoples good were accounted no better then Rebels and Traitours Gods servants are not carefull about Neh. 4 6. this now But yet let us observe how contemptably he speakes of this holding fast to the publike good It is nothing but and what more That which will be called Rebellion and Treason Be it so so called I meane when it is in deed and truth the truest obedience and highest point of loyalty to hold fast to the publike good to preferre that before all your private engagements And this I thought fit to insist upon and make the plainer That we the lowest of the people may put the more observation upon it and be more resolved for and fixed on the publike good also That we may looke to our standing keep our holdfast close to the publike good for that which is good for the Kingdome is good for us also as what is good for the Bee-hive is good for the Bee Let us hold fast there while the Moderatour goes on in his Argument M. Whereas the King as the chiefe Master and dispencer of the Common-wealth is able to fit the humour of every Man that he hath a mind to take off A. Take off from what from a Resolution to hold fast to the publike good That is his meaning and it can be no other And who must take them off The King the chiefe Master and dispencer of the Common-wealth he that should stand like the stalke of a Ballance he that is the Father of his Countrey and as a Father should tender his Subjests and next to his own Soule mind only their good he must take them off Whom will he take off The proud Man the ambitious Man the busie Man And he shall doe it I meane The King is able to call these forth to his foot for these mind their private wealth and so they may build-up that they care not though the publike fall to ruine he shall be able to tak●●hese off for they were never on But what meanes has the King to effect this what wayes hath he to take these persons off from serving the publike good M. That which will fit every mans humour the better the veryer Knave he is The King has honour for the proud places of Trust such a place as Hull a place of Trust and being so not for the Ambitious man inferiour Offices for the busie Man favour and promises and a possibility of severall preferments to invite all sorts of men to him What to doe when they are come To betray the publike good the places of Trust Is this the advantage on the Kings side I speake it with indignation is this it Are these his guifts and bestowed upon such persons and for these ends he could not have spoken more to the dishonour of his Prince not more to the honour of the Parliament M. The King has Power c. A. I will cut him short here for he speakes proudly The King has Power so much as is derived from God or permitted to him So much Power he has and no more Nor Prince nor people have any power of their own but to sinne against God to doe wickedly to shed blood to their power a Ezek. 22. 6. But no power they have to doe good nor knowledge there It is too high for them b Prov. 14. 7. This power is lost and never recovered againe but by a full and free acknowledgement that so it is That a power of doing good is gone and a power of doing evill as we can c Ier. 3. 5. remaines and will remaine fixed in the heart till an humble confession remooves and throwes it forth This is not to the Moderatours purpose but of infinite concernement and a prime point of knowledge this To know That Man has no power of his own to doe good But to doe contrary his power is sufficient It followes M. He hath the power of a Pardon A. A Pardon for whom for Rebels and Traitours Who are they Those that are resolved to hold fast to the publike good To the cause of God to His Worship these are Traitours and Rebels in this mans account for so his words relate if you will observe and conster them M. He hath the power of a Pardon to hold out like a Lure to fetch in such as have turned taile and would turne againe but dare not stoope till a Pardon call them in B. No Let them stoope to a Lure who have stood-up stoutly against GOD have turned head and taile against Him These are resolved to looke strait forward and not looke after a Lure nor respect a Pardon for their good service done to the publike Though he that has done best and has been most resolved for the publike good does say as Nehemiah did for our best works need a Priest and an Altar and a Sacrifice I meane a pardon Remember me O my GOD concerning this also and SPARE me
this They will set this one GOD against all that we reade before They will take courage and be confident for their God is on their side and that is Advantage enough And the LORD CHRIST of no Advantage as He is but a syllable but of mighty Advantage as He is a mighty Saviour a Redeemer that i● strong th● LORD of Hosts is His Name He shall throughly plead their cause that He may give rest to the Land and disquiet the inhabitants of Babilon Truth is ● syllable also our English Tongue abounds there no Tongue more therefore no trust 〈◊〉 that but of mighty advantage as Gods eye is upon the Truth He will maintain His own Cause and His Hand is upon all them for ●ood that seek 〈◊〉 but His Power and His wrath is against all them that forsake Him * Ezra ● 22. them that the Law calls opposers and resisters of His holy will th●se shall one day feele to their smart and everlasting confusion what it is to be a Rebell and a Traitour in Gods account To be called so by Him Who calls things as they are But by Him Jacob shall run through a Troope and by this God he shall leape over a Ps 18. 29. ●all with the help of God we also that were ●oward● before will be valiant for the Truth His Cause though we be called oppos●rs for that and for the Cities of our God and then remit the whole matter to Him our Righteousnes Let Him doe what is good in His eyes f 2 Sam. 18 1● The Lord does all things well and Israel shall say All that was done was done for the best to magnifie the Name of their God and His Hand in the salvation of His people Wait we a little for th● Lord waiteth to be gracious and all these seeming Advantage● on the Adversaries side shall greatly Advantage His people in the prom●ting the Glory of GOD and the Peace of Israel Amen The Moderatour ha● done now with the Advantage● on the Kings side and he tells us it were a vaine worke for him To s●●mme-up all the strength and Advantages which the Parliament has go● together for its des●●●● and to goe through with its designes And there ●● puts a scorne upon them ●s●er his manner and passeth on I will passe on too only we must remember w●●t we reade The scorner is an abomination g Pro. 24. ● and the greatest reason he should b● so for be bringeth a City into a ●nare h Pro. 29 8. nay more then so he sets a City o● 〈◊〉 And yet he hath not done so much to the scorne of the City as he hath to the scorne and reproach of his King Certainly a Man cannot imagine what h● i Inflammant sufflant Trem. could have spoken more to his Kings dishonour and to the scorne and eternall reproach of his party But for all this he may find an Advocate He hath spoken also to the dishonour of God and to the weakening the hands of His people lifted up for the Cause of their God and His Anointed and there I will not spare him he hath laboured what he can that the poore people may see more in their King then in a God more in the anger of a King then in the wrath of the LORD more in a Peace accomodated by Man then in a Peace given from God My work is now to remove the vaile which he hath spread before the eye By Gods good hand with me I shall be able to doe it To make it cleare to every mans eye who will not wilfully shut it up That GOD answers every particl● jote and tittle in the Advantages on the Adversaries side And shall willingly endeavour this for my Countries sake whose peace I wish as I doe the peace of my own soule first M. The King can call an hold fast to the publike good a Rebellion and Treason A. Look to God now He will call things as they are and this hold fast He will call Loyalty to thy Prince and faithfullnesse towards his people And He will cleare thy innocency at this point as the morning and thy Righteousnesse as the noone Day He will account and call thee His Friend and then no matter what others call thee M. 2. The King is able to fit the humour of every Man A. Looke to God and be upright Then enlarge thy desire towards Him He will satisfie thy desire whereas thou mayest search all the world over and all the creatures there and distill the marrow and juyce of them and yet find but wearines and emp●ines in them all for so capacious the soule is and so uns●ti●fiable in all she finds and fixeth upon here below till it cometh and fixeth on Him in Whom i● fullnesse and satisfaction M. 3. The King has favour and promises and possibility of preferments c. A. Look to God In His favour is life k Psal 30. 5. And He has given thee rich and precious promises both concerning this life and a better and more then a possibility ●● certainty of such an honour as have the Saints * Psa 146. 9. and that is an honour unspe●kable to have the friends and favourites of GOD whom He will honour M. 4. He hath the Power of a Pardon A. I would the Moderatour had not said so That the King has a Power on will either to pardon the wicked to account them innocent whom the LORD ●a●eth But so the will of man may be and his power also Look to God now He will by no means cleare the guilty l Exo. 24. ● But the LORD the LORD GOD mercifull c. will multiply pardons to the hu●be soule as his sins are though as the ●●nds for multitude fixe upon this GOD surely it belongs to Him to say I have Power to Pardon Let others say what they will and boast of their excommunication which we care no more for then we doe the bellowing of a Bull or their pa●dons which we respect no more then the dirt under our feet The said full soule will hearken what the LORD sayes for He speaks Peace Ps 85. 8. That which followes is corrupt dealing and fase-hood which th● Lords soule hates His eyes are upon the Truth M. 5. The King has penalties of Treason against those whō he shall call opposers A. The Lord has abundance of mercy and loving kindoes to shew to those whom He accounts faithfull M. 6. The King hath a Counsell well mixed cunning in the Law and that know how to turne it to the most necessary use here is plaine dealing A. Look up to God now for now is the time Thou art in a wildernes seest no path there knowest not in the world what way to take Cunning crafty men devise mischiefe they are turning the very Law against thee whence thou dost expect help It is time now to look about thee and consider on whose shoulders is the governement m Esa