as being a thing contrary to nature or to pay them any reverence or to care what they say except some few that may be delighted with their jingling I wish with all my heart there were enough of such discreet and ancient men as might suffice for all the Parishes of England and that they would undertake it But this is but a wish I leave it to the Wisdom of the State to do what it pleaseth B. What did they next A. Whereas the King had sent Prisoners into places remote from London three Persons that had been condemn'd for publishing seditious Doctrine some in writing some in publick Sermons the Parliament whether with his Majesties consent or no I have forgotten caused them to be released and to return to London meaning I think to try how the People would be pleas'd therewith and by consequence how their endeavours to draw the Peoples affections from the King had already prospered When these three came through London it was a kind of Triumph the People flocking together to behold them and receiving them with such Acclamations and almost Adoration as if they had been let down from Heaven In so much as the Parliament was now sufficiently assur'd of a great and tumultuous Party whensoever they should have occasion to use it On confidence whereof they proceeded to their next Plot which was to deprive the King of such Ministers as by their Wisdom Courage and Authority they thought most able to prevent or oppose their farther Designs against the King And first the House of Commons resolv'd to impeach the Earl of Strafford Lord Lieutenant of Ireland of High Treason B. What was that Earl of Strafford before he had that place And how had he offended the Parliament or given them cause to think he would be their Enemy for I have heard that in former Parliaments he had been as Parliamentary as any other A. His name was Sir Thomas Wentworth a Gentleman both for Birth and Estate very considerable in his own Countrey which was York-shire but more considerable for his Judgment in the publick Affairs not only of that Countrey but generally of the Kingdom and was therefore often chosen for the Parliament either as Burgess for some Burrough or Knight of the Shire For his Principles of Politicks they were the same that were generally proceeded upon by all men else that were thought fit to be chosen for the Parliament which are commonly these To take for the Rule of Justice and Government the Judgments and Acts of former Parliaments which are commonly called Presidents To endeavour to keep the People from being subject to Extra-parliamentary Taxes of Money and from being with Parliamentary Taxes too much oppressed To preserve to the People their Liberty of body from the Arbitrary Power of the King out of Parliament To seek redress of Grievances B. What Grievances A. The Grievances commonly were such as these The King 's too much Liberality to some Favorite The too much power of some Minister or Officer of the Common-wealth The misdemeanour of Judges Civil or Spiritual but especially all unparliamentary raising of Money upon the Subjects And commonly of late till such Grievances be redressed they refuse or at least make great difficulty to furnish the King with Money necessary for the most urgent occasions of the Common-wealth B. How then can a King discharge his Duty as he ought to do or the Subject know which of his Masters he is to obey for here are manifestly two Powers which when they chance to differ cannot both be obeyed A. 'T is true but they have not often differed so much to the danger of the Common-wealth as they have done in this Parliament 1640. In all the Parliaments of the late King Charles before the Year 1640. my Lord of Strafford did appear in opposition to the King's demands as much as any man and was for that cause very much esteem'd and cried up by the People as a good Patriot and one that couragiously stood up in defence of their Liberties and for the same cause was so much the more hated when afterwards he endeavoured to maintain the Royal and just Authority of his Majesty B. How came he to change his mind so much as it seems he did A. After the dissolution of the Parliament holden in the Year 1627. and 1628. the King finding no Money to be gotten from Parliaments which he was not to buy with the Blood of such Servants and Ministers as he loved best abstained a long time from calling any more and had abstained longer if the Rebellion of the Scotch had not forced him to it During that Parliament the King made Sir Thomas Wentworth a Baron recommended to him for his great ability which was generally taken notice of by the disservice he had done the King in former Parliaments but which might be useful also for him in the times that came on and not long after he made him of the Council and after that again Lieutenant of Ireland which Place he discharged with great satisfaction and benefit to his Majesty and continued in that Office till by the Envy and Violence of the Lords and Commons of that unlucky Parliament of 1640. he dyed In which Year he was made General of the King's Forces against the Scots that then entred into England and the Year before Earl of Strafford The Pacification being made and the Forces on both sides disbanded and the Parliament at Westminster now sitting it was not long before the House of Commons accused him to the House of Lords for High-Treason B. There was no great probability of his being a Traitor to the King from whose favour he had received his Greatness and from whose Protection he was to expect his safety What was the Treason they laid to his charge A. Many Articles were drawn up against him but the sum of them was contained in these two First That he had traiterously endeavoured to subvert the fundamental Laws and Government of the Realm and in stead thereof to introduce an Arbitrary and Tyrannical Government against Law Secondly That he had laboured to subvert the Rights of Parliaments and the ancient course of Parliamentary Proceedings B. Was this done by him without the knowledge of the King A. No. B. Why then if it were Treason did not the King himself call him in question by his Attorney What had the House of Commons to do without his Command to accuse him to the House of Lords They might have complained to the King if he had not known it before I understand not this Law A. Nor I. B. Had this been by any former Statutes made Treason A. Not that I ever heard of nor do I understand how any thing can be Treason against the King that the King hearing and knowing does not think Treason But it was a piece of that Parliaments Artifice to put the word Traiterously to any Article exhibited against any Man whose Life they meant to take away B. Was
TRACTS OF M R. THOMAS HOBBS OF Malmsbury CONTAINING I. Behemoth the History of the Causes of the Civil Wars of England from 1640. to 1660. printed from the Author 's own Copy Never printed but with a thousand faults before II. An Answer to Arch-Bishop Bramhall's Book called the Catching of the Leviathan Never printed before III. An Historical Narration of Heresie and the Punishment thereof Corrected by the true Copy IV. Philosophical Problems dedicated to the King in 1662. but never printed before LONDON Printed for W. Crooke at the Green-Dragon without Temple-Bar MDCLXXXII Behemoth THE HISTORY Of the Causes of the Civil-Wars OF ENGLAND And of the Councels and Artifices by which they were carried on from the year 1640. to the year 1660. Written by THOMAS HOBBS of Malmsbury Printed from the Author 's true Copy Bella per Angliacos plusquam civilia campos Jusque datum sceleri loquimur LONDON Printed for W. Crooke at the Green-Dragon without Temple-Bar MDCLXXXII THE BOOKSELLER TO THE READER MY Duty as well to the Publick as to the Memory of Mr. Hobbs has obliged me to procure with my utmost diligence that these Tracts should come forth with the most correct exactness I am compell'd by the force of Truth to declare how much both the World and the Name of Mr. Hobbs have been abus'd by the several spurious Editions of the History of the Civil Wars wherein by various and unskilful Transcriptions are committed above a thousand faults and in above a hundred places whole Lines left out as I can make appear I must confess Mr. Hobbs upon some considerations was averse to the publishing thereof but since it is impossible to suppress it no Book being more commonly sold by all Booksellers I hope I need not fear the Offence of any Man by doing Right to the World and this Work Which I now Publish from the Original Manuscript done by his own Amanuensis and given me by himself above twelve years since To this I have joyn'd the Treatise against Arch-Bishop Bramhall to prevent the like prejudice which must certainly have faln on it there being so many false Copies abroad if not thus prevented as also the Discourse of Heresie from a more correct Copy and have likewise annex'd his Physical Problems as they were translated by himself and presented to His Majesty with the Epistle prefix'd in the Year 1662. at the same time they came forth in Latin These things premis'd there remains nothing but to wish for my self good sale to the Buyer much pleasure and satisfaction Your Humble Servant William Crooke Behemoth OR THE EPITOME OF THE Civil Wars OF ENGLAND PART I. A. IF in time as in place there were degrees of high and low I verily believe that the highest of time would be that which passed between 1640. and 1660. for he that thence as from the Devils Mountain should have looked upon the World and observ'd the Actions of Men especially in England might have had a Prospect of all kinds of Injustice and of all kinds of Folly that the World could afford and how they were produced by their Hypocrisie and self-conceit whereof the one is double Iniquity and the other double Folly B. I should be glad to behold that Prospect You that have liv'd in that time and in that part of your Age wherein Men use to see best into good and evil I pray you set me that could not see so well upon the same Mountain by the Relation of the Actions you then saw and of their Causes Pretensions Justice Order Artifice and Event A. In the Year 1640. the Government of England was Monarchical and the King that reigned Charles the first of that name holding the Sovereignty by right of a descent continued above 600 years and from a much longer descent King of Scotland and from the time of his Ancestors Henry the second King of Ireland a Man that wanted no vertue either of Body or Mind nor endeavour'd any thing more than to discharge his Duty towards God in the well governing of his Subjects B. How could he then miscarry having in every County so many Trained Soldiers as would put together have made an Army of 60000 Men and divers Magazines of Ammunition in places fortified A. If those Soldiers had been as they and all other of his Subjects ought to have been at his Majesties command the Peace and Happiness of the three Kingdoms had continued as it was left by King James but the People were corrupted generally and disobedient persons esteemed the best Patriots B. But sure there were Men enough besides those that were ill-affected to have made an Army sufficient to have kept the People from uniting into a Body able to oppose him A. Truly I think if the King had had Money he might have had Soldiers enough in England for there were very few of the Common People that cared much for either of the Causes but would have taken any side for pay and plunder but the Kings Treasure was very low and his Enemies that pretended the Peoples ease from Taxes and other specious things had the command of the Purses of the City of London and of most Cities and Corporate Towns in England and of many particular persons besides B. But how came the People to be so corrupted and what kind of People were they that did so seduce them A. The Seducers were of divers sorts One sort were Ministers Ministers as they call'd themselves of Christ and sometimes in their Sermons to the People God's Ambassadors pretending to have a right from God to govern every one his Parish and their Assembly the whole Nation Secondly there were a very great number though not comparable to the other which notwithstanding that the Popes power in England both Temporal and Ecclesiastical had been by Act of Parliament abolished did still retain a belief that we ought to be governed by the Pope whom they pretended to be the Vicar of Christ and in the Right of Christ to be the Governour of all Christian People and these were known by the Name of Papists as the Ministers I mentioned before were commonly called Presbyterians Thirdly There were not a few who in the beginning of the Troubles were not discovered but shortly after declared themselves for a Liberty in Religion and those of different Opinions one from another some of them because they would have all Congregations free and independent upon one another were called Independents Others that held Baptism to Infants and such as understood not into what they are baptized to be ineffectual were called therefore Anabaptists Others that held that Christ's Kingdom was at this time to begin upon the Earth were called Fifth-monarchy-men besides divers other Sects as Quakers Adamites c. whose Names and peculiar Doctrines I do not well remember and these were the Enemies which arose against his Majesty from the private Interpretation of the Scripture exposed to every Man 's scanning in his Mother-Tongue Fourthly There were
Commission from the present King hoping to do him as good Service as he had formerly done his Father but the Case was altered for the Scotch Forces were then in England in the Service of the Parliament whereas now they were in Scotland and many more for their intended Invasion newly raised Besides the Soldiers which the Marquess brought over were few and Forreigners nor did the Highlanders come in to him as he expected in so much as he was soon defeated and shortly after taken and with more spightful usage than revenge requir'd executed by the Covenanters at Edenburgh May 2. B. What good could the King expect from joyning with these men who during the Treaty discovered so much malice to him in one of his best Servants A. No doubt their Church-men being then prevalent they would have done as much to this King as the English Parliament had done to his Father if they could have gotten by it that which they foolishly aspir'd to the Government of the Nation I do not believe that the Independents were worse than the Presbyterians both the one and the other were resolv'd to destroy whatsoever should stand in the way to their Ambition but necessity made the King pass over both this and many other Indignities from them rather than suffer the pursuit of his Right in England to cool and be little better than extinguished B. Indeed I believe a Kingdom if suffered to become an old Debt will hardly ever be recover'd Besides the King was sure wheresoever the Victory lighted he could lose nothing in the War but Enemies A. About the time of Montrosse his death which was in May Cromwel was yet in Ireland and his work unfinished but finding or by his Friends advertised that his presence in the Expedition now preparing against the Scots would be necessary to his design sent to the Rump to know their pleasure concerning his return but for all that he knew or thought it was not necessary to stay for their Answer but came away and arriv'd at London the sixth of June following and was welcomed by the Rump Now had General Fairfax who was truly what he pretended to be a Presbyterian been so catechis'd by the Presbyterian Ministers here that he refus'd to fight against the Brethren in Scotland nor did the Rump nor Cromwel go about to rectifie his Conscience in that Point and thus Fairfax laying down his Commission Cromwel was now made General of all the Forces in England and Ireland which was another Step to the Sovereign Power B. Where was the King A. In Scotland newly come over He landed in the North and was honourably conducted to Edenburgh though all things were not yet well agreed on between the Scots and him for though he had yielded to as hard Conditions as the late King had yielded to in the Isle of Wight yet they had still somewhat to add till the King enduring no more departed from them towards the North again But they sent Messengers after him to pray him to return but they furnished these Messengers with strength enough to bring him back if he should have refused In fine they agreed but would not suffer either the King or any Royalist to have Command in the Army B. The sum of all is the King was there a Prisoner A. Cromwel from Barwick sends a Declaration to the Scots telling them he had no quarrel against the People of Scotland but against the Malignant Party that had brought in the King to the disturbance of the Peace between the two Nations and that he was willing either by Conference to give and receive satisfaction or to decide the Justice of the Cause by Battle To which the Scots answering declare That they will not prosecute the King's Interest before and without his acknowledgment of the sins of his House and his former ways and satisfaction given to God's People in both Kingdoms Judge by this whether the present King were not in as bad a condition here as his Father was in the hands of the Presbyterians of England B. Presbyterians are every where the same they would fain be absolute Governours of all they converse with and have nothing to plead for it but that where they Reign 't is God that Reigns and no where else but I observe one strange Demand that the King should acknowledge the sins of his House for I thought it had been certainly held by all Divines that no man was bound to acknowledge any man's sins but his own A. The King having yielded to all that the Church requir'd the Scots proceeded in their intended War Cromwel marched on to Edenburgh provoking them all he could to Battle which they declining and Provisions growing scarce in the English Army Cromwel retir'd to Dunbar despairing of success and intending by Sea or Land to get back into England And such was the Condition which this General Cromwel so much magnified for Conduct had brought his Army to that all his Glories had ended in Shame and Punishment if Fortune and the faults of his Enemies had not relieved him For as he retir'd the Scots followed him close all the way till within a Mile of Dunbar There is a ridge of Hills that from beyond Edenburgh goes winding to the Sea and crosses the High-way between Dunbar and Barwick at a Village called Copperspeith where the passage is so difficult that had the Scots sent timely thither a very few men to guard it the English could never have gotten home For the Scots kept the Hills and needed not have fought but upon great advantage and were almost two to one Cromwell's Army was at the foot of those Hills on the North side and there was a great Ditch or Channel of a Torrent between the Hills and it so that he could never have got home by Land nor without utter ruine of the Army attempted to Ship it nor have stayed where he was for want of Provisions Now Cromwel knowing the Pass was free and commanding a good Party of Horse and foot to possess it it was necessary for the Scots to let them go whom they bragged they had impounded or else to fight and therefore with the best of their Horse charged the English and made them at first to shrink a little but the English Foot coming on the Scots were put to flight and the flight of the Horse hindered the Foot from engaging who therefore fled as did also the rest of their Horse Thus the folly of the Scottish Commanders brought all their odds to an even Lay between two small and equal Parties wherein Fortune gave the Victory to the English who were not many more in number than those that were killed and taken Prisoners of the Scots and the Church lost their Canon Bag and Baggage with 10000 Arms and almost their whole Army The rest were got together by Lesly to Sterling B. This Victory happened well for the King for had the Scots been Victors the Presbyterians both here and there would
Silver whereof they thought there was great abundance in the Town of Santo Domingo but were well beaten by a few Spaniards and with the loss of near 1000 men went off to Jamaica and possessed it This year also the Royal Party made another attempt in the West and proclaimed there King Charles the Second but few joyning with them and some falling off they were soon suppressed and many of the principal Persons executed B. In these many Insurrections the Royalists though they meant well yet they did but disservice to the King by their Impatience What hope had they to prevail against so great an Army as the Protector had ready What cause was there to despair of seeing the King's business done better by the Dissention and Ambition of the great Commanders in that Army whereof many had the favour to be as well esteemed amongst them as Cromwel himself A. That was somewhat uncertain The Protector being frustrated of his hope of Money at Santo Domingo resolved to take from the Royalists the tenth part yearly of their Estates And to this end chiefly he divided England into eleven Major-Generalships with Commission to every Major-General to make a Roll of the Names of all suspected Persons of the King's Party and to receive the tenth part of their Estates within his Precinct as also to take Caution from them not to act against the State and to reveal all Plots that should come to their knowledge and to make them engage the like for their Servants They had Commission also to forbid Horse-races and Concourse of People and to receive and account for this Decimation B. By this the Usurper might easily inform himself of the value of all the Estates in England and of the behaviour and affection of every Person of Quality which has heretofore been taken for very great Tyranny A. The year 1656. was a Parliament year by the Instrument between the beginning of this year and the day of the Parliaments sitting which was September the 17 th these Major-Generals resided in several Provinces behaving themselves most tyrannically Amongst other of their Tyrannies was the awing of Elections and making themselves and whom they pleas'd to be return'd Members for the Parliament which was also thought a part of Cromwel's Design in their Constitution for he had need of a giving Parliament having lately upon a Peace made with the French drawn upon himself a War with Spain This year it was that Captain Stainer set upon the Spanish Plate-Fleet being eight in number near Cadiz whereof he funk two and took two there being in one of them two Millions of Pieces of Eight which amounts to 400000 l. Sterling This year also it was that James Naylor appeared at Bristol and would be taken for Jesus Christ. He wore his Beard forked and his Hair composed to the likeness of that in the Volto Santo and being question'd would sometimes answer Thou sayest it He had also his Disciples that would go by his Horse side to the mid-leg in dirt Being sent for by the Parliament he was sentenced to stand on the Pillory to have his Tongue bored through and to be marked in the Forehead with the Letter B. for Blasphemy and to remain in Bridewel Lambert a great Favorite of the Army endeavour'd to save him partly because he had been his Soldier and partly to curry favour with the Sectaries of the Army for he was now no more in the Protector 's favour but meditating how he might succeed him in his Power About two years before this there appeared in Cornwal a Prophetess much fam'd for her Dreams and Visions and hearkned to by many whereof some were eminent Officers but she and some of her Complices being imprison'd we heard no more of her B. I have heard of another one Lilly that prophecied all the time of the Long Parliament What did they to him A. His Prophecies were of another kind he was a writer of Almanacks and a pretender to a pretended Art of Judicial Astrology a meer Cozener to get maintenance from a multitude of ignorant People and no doubt had been called in question if his Prophecies had been any way disadvantageous to that Parliament B. I understand not how the Dreams and Prognostications of Mad-men for such I take to be all those that foretel future Contingencies can be of any great disadvantage to the Common-wealth A. Yes yes know there is nothing that renders Humane Counsels difficult but the incertainty of future time nor that so well directs men in their Deliberations as the fore-sight of the Sequels of their Actions Prophecie being many times the principal Cause of the Event foretold If upon some prediction the People should have been made confident that Oliver Cromwel and his Army should be upon a day to come utterly defeated would not every one have endeavoured to assist and to deserve well of the Party that should give him that Defeat Upon this account it was that Fortune tellers and Astrologers were so often banished out of Rome The last memorable thing of this year was a Motion made by a Member of the House an Alderman of London that the Protector might be petition'd and advis'd by the House to leave the Title of Protector and take upon him that of King B. That was indeed a bold Motion and which would if prosperous have put an end to many mens ambition and to the licentiousness of the whole Army I think the Motion was made on purpose to ruine both the Protector himself and his Ambitious Officers A. It may be so In the year 1657. the first thing the Parliament did was the drawing up of this Petition to the Protector to take upon him the Government of the three Nations with the Title of King As of other Parliaments so of this the greatest part had been either kept out of the House by force or else themselves had forborn to sit and became guilty of setting up this King Oliver But those few that sate presented their Petition to the Protector April the ninth in the Banqueting-house at White-hall where Sir Thomas Widdrington the Speaker used the first Arguments and the Protector desir'd some time to seek God the business being weighty The next day they sent a Committee to him to receive his Answer which Answer being not very clear they pressed him again for a Resolution to which he made answer in a long Speech that ended in a peremptory refusal and so retaining still the Title of Protector he took upon him the Government according to certain Articles contained in the said Petition B. What made him refuse the Title of King A. Because he durst not take it at that time the Army being addicted to their great Officers and amongst their great Officers many hoping to succeed him and the Succession having been promised to Major-General Lambert would have mutinied against him He was therefore forced to stay for a more propitious Conjuncture B. What were those Articles A. The most
in defence of the Civil Power that must be punish'd by him whose Rights he defended like Vzza that was slain because he would needs unbidden put forth his Hand to keep the Ark from falling But what if a whole Nation should revolt from the Pope at once what effect could Excommunication have upon the Nation A. Why they should have no more Mass said at least by any of the Popes Priests Besides the Pope would have no more to do with them but cast them off and so they would be in the same Case as if a Nation should be cast off by their King and left to be governed by themselves or whom they would B. This would not be taken so much for a punishment to the People as to the King and therefore when a Pope Excommunicates a whole Nation methinks he rather Excommunicates himself than them But I pray you tell me what were the Rights that the Pope pretended to in the Kingdoms of other Princes A. First An Exemption of all Priests Friars and Monks in Criminal Causes from the Cognizance of Civil Judges Secondly Collation of Benefices on whom he pleased Native or Stranger and exaction of Tenths First Fruits and other Payments Thirdly Appeals to Rome in all Causes where the Church could pretend to be concern'd Fourthly To be the Supream Judge concerning Lawfulness of Marriage i. e. concerning the Hereditary Succession of Kings and to have the Cognisance of all Causes concerning Adultery and Fornication B. Good A Monopoly of Women A. Fifthly A Power of absolving Subjects of their Duties and of their Oaths of Fidelity to their lawful Sovereigns when the Pope should think fit for the extirpation of Heresie B. This Power of absolving Subjects of their Obedience as also that other of being Judge of Manners and Doctrine is as absolute a Sovereignty as is possible to be and consequently there must be two Kingdoms in one and the same Nation and no Man be able to know which of his Masters he must obey A. For my part I should rather obey that Master that had the Right of making Laws and of inflicting Punishments than him that pretendeth only to a Right of making Canons that is to say Rules and no Right of Co-action or otherwise punishing but by Excommunication B. But the Pope pretends also that his Canons are Laws and for punishing can there be greater than Excommunication supposing it true as the Pope saith it is that he that dies Excommunicate is damn'd Which supposition it seems you believe not else you would rather have chosen to obey the Pope that would cast you Body and Soul into Hell than the King that can only kill the Body A. You say true for it were very uncharitable in me to believe that all English men except a few Papists that have been born and called Hereticks ever since the Reformation of Religion in England should be damn'd B. But for those that die Excommunicate in the Church of England at this day do you not think them also damn'd A. Doubtless he that dies in sin without repentance is damn'd and he that is Excommunicate for disobedience to the Kings Laws either Spiritual or Temporal is Excommunicate for sin and therefore if he die Excommunicate and without desire of reconciliation he dies impenitent You see what follows but to die in disobedience to the Precepts and Doctrines of those Men that have no Authority or Jurisdiction over us is quite another Case and bringeth no such danger with it B. But what is this Heresie which the Church of Rome so cruelly persecutes as to depose Kings that do not when they are bidden turn all Hereticks out of their Dominions A. Heresie is a word which when it is used without passion signifies a private Opinion So the different Sects of the old Philosophers Academians Peripateticks Epicureans Stoicks c. were called Heresies but in the Christian Church there was in the signification of that word comprehended a sinful opposition to him that was chief Judge of Doctrines in order to the salvation of Mens Souls and consequently Heresie may be said to bear the same relation to the Power Spiritual that Rebellion doth to the Power Temporal and is suitably to be persecuted by him that will preserve a Power Spiritual and Dominion over Mens Consciences B. It would be very well because we are all of us permitted to read the Holy Scriptures and bound to make them the Rule of our Actions both publick and private that Heresie were by some Law defined and the particular Opinions set forth for which a man were to be condemned and punished as a Heretick for else not only Men of mean capacity but even the wisest and devoutest Christian may fall into Heresie without any will to oppose the Church for the Scriptures are hard and the Interpretations different of different men A. The meaning of the word Heresie is by Law declared in an Act of Parliament in the first year of Queen Elizabeth wherein it is ordain'd That the persons who had by the Queens Letters Patents the Authority Spiritual meaning the High Commission shall not have Authority to adjudge any Matter or Cause to be Heresie but only such as heretofore have been adjudged to be Heresie by the Authority of the Canonical Scriptures or by the first four General Councils or by any other General Council where the same was declared Heresie by the express and plain words of the said Canonical Scriptures or such as hereafter shall be adjudged Heresie by the High Court of Parliament of this Realm with the Assent of the Clergy in their Convocation B. It seems therefore if there arise any new error that hath not yet been declared Heresie and many such may arise it cannot be judged Heresie without a Parliament for how foul soever the error be it cannot have been declar'd Heresie neither in the Scriptures nor in the Councils because it was never before heard of and consequently there can be no error unless it fall within the compass of Blasphemy against God or Treason against the King for which a man can in Equity be punished Besides who can tell what is declared by the Scripture which every man is allowed to read and interpret to himself Nay more what Protestant either of the Laity or Clergy if every General Council can be a competent Judge of Heresie is not already condemned for divers Councils have declared a great many of our Doctrines to be Heresie and that as they pretend upon the Authority of the Scriptures A. What are those Points that the first four General Councils have declared Heresie B. The first General Council held at Nicaea declared all to be Heresie which was contrary to the Nicene Creed upon occasion of the Heresie of Arrius which was the denying the Divinity of Christ. The second General Council held at Constantinople declared Heresie the Doctrine of Macedonius which was that the Holy Ghost was created The third Council assembled at Ephesus condemned the
when they sent unto him 19 Propositions whereof above a dozen were Demands of several Powers essential parts of the Power Sovereign But before that time they had demanded some of them in a Petition which they called a Petition of Right which nevertheless the King had granted them in a former Parliament though he deprived himself thereby not only of the Power to levy Money without their consent but also of his ordinary Revenue by Custom of Tonnage and Poundage and of the Liberty to put into Custody such Men as he thought likely to disturb the Peace and raise Sedition in the Kingdom As for the Men that did this 't is enough to say they were the Members of the last Parliament and of some other Parliaments in the beginning of King Charles and the end of King James his Reign to name them all is not necessary farther than the Story shall require Most of them were Members of the House of Commons some few also of the Lords but all such as had a great opinion of their sufficiency in Politicks which they thought was not sufficiently taken notice of by the King B. How could the Parliament when the King had a great Navy and a great number of Train'd Soldiers and all the Magazines of Ammunition in his power be able to begin the War A. The King had these things indeed in his right but that signifies little when they that had the Custody of the Navy and Magazines and with them all the Train'd Soldiers and in a manner all his Subjects were by the preaching of Presbyterian Ministers and the seditious whisperings of false and ignorant Politicians made his Enemies And when the King could have no Money but what the Parliament should give him which you may be sure should not be enough to maintain his Regal Power which they intended to take from him And yet I think they would never have adventured into the Field but for that unlucky business of imposing upon the Scots who were all Presbyterians our Book of Common-Prayer for I believe the English would never have taken well that the Parliament should make War upon the King upon any provocation unless it were in their own defence in case the King should first make War upon them and therefore it behooved them to provoke the King that he might do something that might look like Hostility It happened in the Year 1637. that the King by the Advice as it is thought of the Arch-Bishop of Canterbury sent down a Book of Common-Prayer into Scotland not differing in substance from ours nor much in words besides the putting of the word Presbyter for that of Minister commanding it to be used for conformity to this Kingdom by the Ministers there for an ordinary Form of Divine Service This being read in the Church at Edenburgh caused such a Tumult there that he that read it had much ado to escape with his life and gave occasion to the greatest part of the Nobility and others to enter by their own Authority into a Covenant amongst themselves which impudently they called a Covenant with God to put down Episcopacy without consulting with the King which they presently did animated thereto by their own confidence or by assurance from some of the Democratical English-men that in former Parliaments had been the greatest opposers of the King's Interest that the King would not be able to raise an Army to chastise them without calling a Parliament which would be sure to favour them For the thing which those Domocraticals chiefly then aimed at was to force the King to call a Parliament which he had not done of ten years before as having found no help but hinderance to his Designs in the Parliaments he had formerly called Howsoever contrary to their expectation by the help of his better affected Subjects of the Nobility and Gentry he made a shift to raise a sufficient Army to have reduced the Scots to their former obedience if it had proceeded to battle and with this Army he marched himself into Scotland where the Scotch Army was also brought into the Field against him as if they meant to fight but then the Scoth sent to the King for leave to treat by Commissioners on both sides and the King willing to avoid the destruction of his own Subjects condescended to it The Issue was peace and the King thereupon went to Edenburgh and passed an Act of Parliament there to their satisfaction B. Did he not then confirm Episcopacy A. No but yielded to the abolishing of it but by this means the English were cross'd in their hope of a Parliament but the said Democraticals formerly opposers of the King's Interest ceased not to endeavour still to put the two Nations into a War to the end the King might buy the Parliaments help at no less a price than Sovereignty it self B. But what was the cause that the Gentry and Nobility of Scotland were so averse from the Episcopacy for I can hardly believe that their Consciences were extraordinarily tender nor that they were so very great Divines as to know what was the true Church-discipline established by our Saviour and his Apostles nor yet so much in love with their Ministers as to be over-rul'd by them in the Government either Ecclesiastical or Civil for in their lives they were just as other Men are pursuers of their own Interests and Preferments wherein they were not more opposed by the Bishops than by their Presbyterian Ministers A. Truly I do not know I cannot enter into other Mens thoughts farther than I am led by the consideration of Humane Nature in general But upon this consideration I see first that Men of ancient Wealth and Nobility are not apt to brook that poor Scholars should as they must when they are made Bishops be their fellows Secondly That from the Emulation of Glory between the Nations they might be willing to see this Nation afflicted by Civil War and might hope by aiding the Rebels here to acquire some power over the English at least so far as to establish here the Presbyterian Discipline which was also one of the Points they afterwards openly demanded Lastly They might hope for in the War some great Sum of Money as a reward of their assistance besides great booty which they afterwards obtained But whatsoever was the cause of their hatred to Bishops the pulling of them down was not all they aimed at If it had now that Episcopacy was abolished by Act of Parliament they would have rested satisfied which they did not for after the King was returned to London the English Presbyterians and Democraticals by whose favour they had put down Bishops in Scotland thought it reason to have the assistance of the Scotch for the pulling down of Bishops in England And in order thereunto they might perhaps deal with the Scots secretly to rest unsatisfied with that Pacification which they were before contented with Howsoever it was not long after the King was returned to London
they thought worthy even to be Senators of Rome and to give every one of the Common People the Priviledges of the City of Rome by which they were protected from the Contumelies of other Nations where they resided Why were not the Scotch and English in like manner united into one People A. King James at his first coming to the Crown of England did endeavour it but could not prevail But for all that I believe the Scotch have now as many Priviledges in England as any Nation had in Rome of those which were so as you say made Romans for they are all naturaliz'd and have right to buy Land in England to themselves and their Heirs B. It 's true of them that were born in Scotland after the time that King James was in possession of the Kingdom of England A. There be very few now that were born before But why have they a better Right that were born after than they that were born before B. Because they were born Subjects to the King of England and the rest not A. Were not the rest born Subjects to King James And was not he King of England B. Yes but not then A. I understand not the subtilty of that distinction But upon what Law is that distinction grounded Is there any Statute to that purpose B. I cannot tell I think not but it is grounded upon Equity A. I see little Equity in this that those Nations that are bound to equal obedience to the same King should not have equal priviledges And now seeing there be so very few born before King James's coming in what greater priviledge had those ingrafted Romans by their Naturalization in the State of Rome or in the State of England the English themselves more than the Scotch B. Those Romans when any of them were in Rome had their Voice in the making of Laws A. And the Scotch have their Parliaments wherein their assent is requir'd to the Laws there made which is as good Have not many of the Provinces of France their several Parliaments and several Constitutions and yet they are all equally natural Subjects to the King of France and therefore for my part I think they were mistaken both English and Scotch in calling one another Forreigners Howsoever that be the King had a very sufficient Army wherewith he marched towards Scotland and by that time he was come to York the Scotch Army was drawn up to the Frontiers and ready to march into England which also they presently did giving out all the way that their March should be without damage to the Countrey and that their Errand was only to deliver a Petition to the King for the redress of many pretended Injuries they had receiv'd from such of the Court whose Counsel the King most followed so they passed through Northumberland quietly till they came to a Ford in the River of Tine a little above New-Castle where they found some little opposition from a Party of the King's Army sent thither to stop them whom the Scotch easily master'd and as soon as they were over seiz'd upon New-Castle and coming farther on upon the City of Duresme and sent to the King to desire a Treaty which was granted and the Commissioners on both sides met at Rippon The Conclusion was that all should be referr'd to the Parliament which the King should call to meet at Westminster on the third of November following being in the same Year 1640. and thereupon the King returned to London B. So the Armies were disbanded A. No the Scotch Army was to be defrayed by the Counties of Northumberland and Duresme and the King was to pay his own till the disbanding of both should be agreed upon in Parliament B. So in effect both the Armies were maintain'd at the King's charge and the whole Controversie to be decided by a Parliament almost wholly Presbyterian and as partial to the Scotch as themselves could have wished A. And yet for all this they durst not presently make War upon the King there was so much yet left of reverence to him in the Hearts of the People as to have made them odious if they had declared what they intended they must have some colour or other to make it believ'd that the King made War first upon the Parliament and besides they had not yet sufficiently disgraced him in Sermons and Pamphlets nor removed from about him those they thought could best counsel him Therefore they resolv'd to proceed with him like skilful Hunters first to single him out by Men disposed in all parts to drive him into the open Field and then in case he should but seem to turn head to call that a making of War against the Parliament And first they call'd in question such as had either preached or written in defence of any of those Rights which belonging to the Crown they meant to usurp and take from the King to themselves Whereupon some few Preachers and Writers were imprisoned or forced to fly The King not protecting these they proceeded to call in question some of the King 's own Actions in his Ministers whereof they imprisoned some and some went beyond Sea And whereas certain persons having endeavoured by Books and Sermons to raise Sedition and committed other crimes of high nature had therefore been censured by the King's Council in the Star-Chamber and imprisoned the Parliament by their own Authority to try it seems how the King and the People would take it for their persons were inconsiderable ordered their setting at liberty which was accordingly done with great applause of the People that flocked about them in London in manner of a Triumph This being done without resistance the King 's Right to Ship-Money B. Ship-Money what 's that A. The Kings of England for the defence of the Sea had power to tax all the Counties of England whether they were Maritime or not for the building and furnishing of Ships which Tax the King had then lately found cause to impose and the Parliament exclaim'd against it as an oppression and one of their Members that had been taxed but 20 s. mark the oppression a Parliament-man of 500 l. a year Land taxed at 20 s. they were forced to bring it to a Tryal at Law he refusing payment and he was cast Again when all the Judges of Westminster were demanded their Opinions concerning the Legality of it of Twelve that there are it was judged legal by Ten for which though they were not punished yet they were afrighted by the Parliament B. What did the Parliament mean when they did exclaim against it as illegal Did they mean it was against Statute-Law or against the Judgments of Lawyers given heretofore which are commonly called Reports or did they mean it was against Equity which I take to be the same with the Law of Nature A. It is a hard matter or rather impossible to know what other Men mean especially if they be crafty but sure I am Equity was not their ground for
are sent by him Love God with all your Soul and your Neighbour as your self are words of the Scripture which are well enough understood but neither Children nor the greatest part of Men do understand why it is their Duty to do so They see not that the safety of the Common-wealth and consequently their own depends upon their doing it Every man by nature without discipline does in all his Actions look upon as far as he can see the benefit that shall redound to himself from his obedience He reads that Covetousness is the root of all evil but he thinks and sometimes finds it is the root of his Estate And so in other Cases the Scripture says one thing and they think another weighing the Commodities or Incommodities of this present life only which are in their sight never putting into the Scales the Good and Evil of the Life to come which they see not A. All this is no more than happens where the Scripture is seal'd up in Greek and Latin and the People taught the same things out of them by Preachers But they that are of a Condition and Age fit to examine the sense of what they read and that take a delight in searching out the Grounds of their Duty certainly cannot choose but by their reading of the Scriptures come to such a sense of their Duty as not only to obey the Laws themselves but also to induce others to do the same for commonly Men of Age and Quality are followed by their inferior Neighbours that look more upon the Example of those Men whom they reverence and whom they are unwilling to displease than upon Precepts and Laws B. These Men of the Condition and Age you speak of are in my opinion the unfittest of all others to be trusted with the reading of the Scriptures I know you mean such as have studied the Greek or Latin or both Tongues and that are withal such as love knowledge and consequently take delight in finding out the meaning of the most hard Texts or in thinking they have found it in case it be new and not found out by others These are therefore they that pretermitting the easie places which teach them their Duty fall to scanning only of the Mysteries of Religion such as are How it may be made out with wit that there be three that bear Rule in Heaven and those three but One How the Deity could be made Flesh How that Flesh could be really present in many places at once Where 's the Place and what the Torments of Hell and other Metaphysical Doctrines Whether the Will of Man be free or governed by the Will of God Whether Sanctity comes by Inspiration or Education By whom Christ now speaks to us Whether by the King or by the Clergy or by the Bible to every man that reads it and interprets it to himself or by a private Spirit to every private Man These and the like Points are the study of the Curious and the cause of all our late mischief and the cause that makes the plainer sort of Men whom the Scripture had taught belief in Christ Love towards God Obedience to the King and sobriety of behaviour forget it all and place their Religion in the disputable Doctrines of these your wise Men. A. I do not think these men fit to interpret the Scripture to the rest nor do I say that the rest ought to take their Interpretation for the Word of God Whatsoever is necessary for them to know is so easie as not to need Interpretation Whatsoever is more does them no good But in case any of those unnecessary Doctrines shall be authorized by the Laws of the King or other State I say it is the Duty of every Subject not to speak against them in as much as it is every man's Duty to obey Him or Them that have the Sovereign Power and the Wisdom of all such Powers to punish such as shall publish or teach their private Interpretations when they are contrary to the Law and likely to incline men to Sedition or Disputing against the Law B. They must punish then the most of those that have had their breeding in the Universities for such curious Questions in Divinity are first started in the Universities and so are all those Politick Questions concerning the Rights of Civil and Ecclesiastick Government and there they are furnished with Arguments for Liberty out of the Works of Aristotle Plato Cicero Seneca and out of the Histories of Rome and Greece for their Disputation against the necessary Power of their Sovereigns Therefore I despair of any lasting Peace amongst our selves till the Universities here shall bend and direct their Studies to the setling of it that is to the teaching of absolute Obedience to the Laws of the King and to his Publick Edicts under the Great Seal of England for I make no doubt but that solid Reason back'd with the Authority of so many Learned Men will more prevail for the keeping of us in peace within our selves than any Victory can do over the Rebels but I am afraid that 't is impossible to bring the Universities to such a compliance with the Actions of State as is necessary for the business A. Seeing the Universities have heretofore from time to time maintain'd the Authority of the Pope contrary to all Laws Divine Civil and Natural against the Right of our Kings why can they not as well when they have all manner of Laws and Equity on their side maintain the Rights of him that is both Sovereign of the Kingdom and Head of the Church B. Why then were they not in all Points for the King's Power presently after that King Henry the 8 th was in Parliament declared Head of the Church as much as they were before for the Authority of the Pope A. Because the Clergy in the Universities by whom all things there are governed and the Clergy without the Universities as well Bishops as inferior Clerks did think that the pulling down of the Pope was the setting up of them as to England in his place and made no question the greatest part of them but that their Spiritual Power did depend not upon the Authority of the King but of Christ himself derived to them by a successive Imposition of Hands from Bishop to Bishop notwithstanding they knew that this derivation passed through the Hands of Popes and Bishops whose Authority they had cast off For though they were content that the Divine Right which the Pope pretended to in England should be denied him yet they thought it not so fit to be taken from the Church of England whom they now supposed themselves to represent It seems they did not think it reasonable that a Woman or a Child or a Man that could not construe the Hebrew Greek or Latin Bible nor know perhaps the Declensions and Conjugations of Greek or Latin Nouns and Verbs should take upon him to govern so many learned Doctors in matters of Religion meaning matters
They sate down in November and now it was May in this space of time which is but half a year they won from the King the adherence which was due to him from his People they drave his faithfulest Servants from him beheaded the Earl of Strafford imprison'd the Arch-bishop of Canterbury obtain'd a Triennial Parliament after their own Dissolution and a continuance of their own sitting as long as they listed which last amounted to a total Extinction of the King 's Right in case that such a Grant were valid which I think it is not unless the Sovereignty it self be in plain terms renounced which it was not But what Money by way of Subsidy or otherwise did they grant the King in recompence of all these his large Concessions A. None at all but often promised they would make him the most glorious King that ever was in England which were words that passed well enough for well meaning with the Common People B. But the Parliament was contented now for I cannot imagine what they should desire more from the King than he had now granted them A. Yes they desir'd the whole and absolute Sovereignty and to change the Monarchical Government into an Oligarchie that is to say to make the Parliament consisting of a few Lords and about 400 Commoners absolute in the Sovereignty for the present and shortly after to lay the House of Lords aside for this was the Design of the Presbyterian Ministers who taking themselves to be by Divine Right the only lawful Governors of the Church endeavoured to bring the same form of Government into the Civil State And as the Spiritual Laws were to be made by their Synods so the Civil Laws should be made by the House of Commons who as they thought would no less be ruled by them afterwards than they formerly had been wherein they were deceived and found themselves out-gone by their own Disciples though not in Malice yet in Wit B. What followed after this A. In August following the King supposing he had now sufficiently obliged the Parliament to proceed no farther against him took a Journey into Scotland to satisfie his Subjects there as he had done here intending perhaps so to gain their good Wills that in case the Parliament here should Levy Arms against him they should not be aided by the Scots wherein he also was deceiv'd for though they seemed satisfied with what he did whereof one thing was his giving way to the abolition of Episcopacy yet afterwards they made a League with the Parliament and for Money when the King began to have the better of the Parliament invaded England in the Parliaments quarrel but this was a year or two after B. Before you go any farther I desire to know the Ground and Original of that Right which either the House of Lords or House of Commons or both together now pretend to A. It is a Question of things so long past that they are now forgotten Nor have we any thing to conjecture by but the Records of our own Nation and some small and obscure fragments of Roman Histories And for the Records seeing they are of things done only sometimes justly sometimes unjustly you can never by them know what Right they had but only what Right they pretended B. Howsoever let me know what light we have in this matter from the Roman Histories A. It would be too long and an useless digression to cite all the Ancient Authors that speak of the forms of those Common-wealths which were amongst our first Ancestors the Saxons and other Germans and of other Nations from whom we derive the Titles of Honour now in use in England nor will it be possible to derive from them any Argument of Right but only Examples of Fact which by the Ambition of potent Subjects have been oftner unjust than otherwise And for those Saxons or Angles that in Ancient times by several Invasions made themselves Masters of this Nation they were not in themselves one Body of a Common-wealth but only a League of divers petty German Lords and States such as was the Grecian Army in the Trojan War without other obligation than that which proceeded from their own fear and weakness Nor were those Lords for the most part the Sovereigns at home in their own Country but chosen by the People for the Captains of the Forces they brought with them And therefore it was not without Equity when they had conquered any part of the Land and made some one of them King thereof that the rest should have greater priviledges than the Common People and Soldiers amongst which priviledges a man may easily conjecture this to be one That they should be made acquainted and be of Councel with him that hath the Sovereignty in matter of Government and have the greatest and most honourable Offices both in Peace and War But because there can be no Government where there is more than one Sovereign it cannot be inferr'd that they had a Right to oppose the King's Resolutions by force nor to enjoy those Honours and Places longer than they should continue good Subjects And we find that the Kings of England did upon every great occasion call them together by the name of discreet and wise Men of the Kingdom and hear their Counsel and make them Judges of all Causes that during their sitting were brought before them But as he summon'd them at his own pleasure so had he also ever the power at his pleasure to dissolve them The Normans also that descended from the Germans as we did had the same Customs in this particular and by this means this priviledge of the Lords to be of the King 's Great Councel and when they were assembled to be the Highest of the King's Courts of Justice continued still after the Conquest to this day But though there be amongst the Lords divers Names or Titles of Honour yet they have their Priviledge by the only Name of Baron a Name receiv'd from the Ancient Gaules amongst whom that Name signified the King's Man or rather one of his Great Men By which it seems to me that though they gave him Counsel when he requir'd it yet they had no Right to make War upon him if he did not follow it B. When began first the House of Commons to be part of the King 's Great Councel A. I do not doubt but that before the Conquest some discreet Men and known to be so by the King were called by special Writ to be of the same Councel though they were not Lords but that is nothing to the House of Commons The Knights of Shires and Burgesses were never called to Parliament for ought that I know till the beginning of the Reign of Edward the first or the latter end of the Reign of Henry the third immediately after the misbehaviour of the Barons and for ought any man knows were called on purpose to weaken that Power of the Lords which they had so freshly abused Before the time
the House nevertheless hearing of it from some of his Fellow-Members may certainly not only take notice of it but also speak to it in the House of Commons but to make the King give up his Friends and Councellors to them to be put to death banishment or imprisonment for their good will to him was such a Tyranny over a King no King ever exercised over any Subject but in Cases of Treason or Murder and seldom then A. Presently hereupon began a kind of War between the Pens of the Parliament and those of the Secretaries and other able men that were with the King For upon the 15 th of December they sent to the King a Paper called A Remonstrance of the State of the Kingdom and with it a Petition both which they caused to be published In the Remonstrance they complained of certain mischievous Designs of a Malignant Party then before the beginning of the Parliament grown ripe and did set forth what means had been used for the preventing of it by the wisdom of the Parliament what rubs they had found therein what course was fit to be taken for restoring and establishing the Ancient Honour Greatness and Safety of the Crown and Nation 1 st And of these Designs the Promoters and Actors were they said Jesuited Papists 2 ly The Bishops and that part of the Clergy that cherish formality as a support of their own Ecclesiastical Tyranny and Usurpation 3 ly Councellors and Courtiers that for private ends they said had engaged themselves to farther the Interests of some Forreign Princes B. It may very well be that some of the Bishops and also some of the Court may have in pursuit of their private Interest done something indiscreetly and perhaps wickedly therefore I pray you tell me in particular what their crimes were for methinks the King should not have conniv'd at any thing against his own Supream Authority A. The Parliament were not very keen against them that were against the King they made no doubt but all they did was by the King's Command but accus'd thereof the Bishops Councellors and Courtiers as being a more mannerly way of accusing the King himself and defaming him to his Subjects For the truth is the Charge they brought against them was so general as not to be called an Accusation but Railing As first they said they nourished Questions of Prerogative and Liberty between the King and his People to the end that seeming much addicted to his Majesties Service they might get themselves into Places of greatest Trust and Power in the Kingdom B. How could this be called an Accusation in which there is no Fact for any Accusers to apply their Proofs to or their Witnesses for granting that these Questions of Prerogative had been moved by them who can prove that their end was to gain to themselves and Friends the Places of Trust and Power in the Kingdom A. A second Accusation was That they endeavoured to suppress the purity and power of Religion B. That 's Canting it is not in man's power to suppress the power of Religion A. They meant that they suppress the Doctrine of the Presbyterians that is to say the very foundation of the then Parliaments treacherous pretensions A third That they cherished Arminians Papists and Libertines by which they meant the common Protestants which meddle not with Disputes to the end they might compose a Body fit to act according to their Counsels and Resolutions A Fourth That they endeavoured to put the King upon other courses of raising Money than by the ordinary way of Parliaments Judge whether these may be properly called Accusations or not rather spiteful Reproaches of the King's Government B. Methinks this last was a very great fault for what good could there be in putting the King upon an odd course of getting Money when the Parliament was willing to supply him as far as to the security of the Kingdom or to the Honour of the King should be necessary A. But I told you before they would give him none but with a condition he should cut off the Heads of whom they pleas'd how faithfully soever they had serv'd him and if he would have sacrificed all his Friends to their Ambition yet they would have found other excuses for denying him Subsidies for they were resolv'd to take from him the Sovereign Power to themselves which they could never do without taking great care that he should have no Money at all In the next place they put into the Remonstrance as faults of them whose Counsel the King followed all those things which since the beginning of the King's Reign were by them misliked whether faults or not and whereof they were not able to judge for want of knowledge of the Causes and Motives that induced the King to do them and were known only to the King himself and such of his Privy-Council as he revealed them to B. But what were those particular pretended faults A. 1. The Dissolution of his first Parliament at Oxford 2. The Dissolution of his second Parliament being in the second year of his Reign 3. The Dissolution of his Parliament in the fourth year of his Reign 4. The fruitless Expedition against Cales 5. The Peace made with Spain whereby the Palatines Cause was deserted and left to chargeable and hopeless Treaties 6. The sending of Commissions to raise Money by way of Loan 7. Raising of Ship-Money 8. Enlargement of Forrests contrary to Magna Charta 9. The Design of engrossing all the Gunpowder into one hand and keeping it in the Tower of London 10. A Design to bring in the use of Brass Money 11. The Fines Imprisonments Stigmatizings Mutilations Whippings Pillories Gags Confinements and Banishments by Sentence in the Court of Star-Chamber 12. The displacing of Judges 13. Illegal Acts of the Council-Table 14. The Arbitrary and Illegal Power of the Earl Marshal's Court. 15. The abuses in Chancery Exchequer Chamber and Court of Wards 16. The selling of Titles of Honour of Judges and Serjeants Places and other Offices 17. The Insolence of Bishops and other Clerks in Suspensions Excommunications Deprivations and Degradations of divers painful and learned and pious Ministers B. Were there any such Ministers degraded deprived or excommunicated A. I cannot tell but I remember I have heard threatned divers painful unlearned and seditious Ministers 18. The Excess of severity of the High-Commission Court 19. The Preaching before the King against the Property of the Subject and for the Prerogative of the King above the Law and divers other petty quarrels they had to the Government which though they were laid upon this Faction yet they knew they would fall upon the King himself in the Judgment of the People to whom by printing it was communicated Again after the Dissolution of the Parliament May the 5 th 1640. they find other faults as the Dissolution it self The Imprisoning some Members of both Houses A forced Loan of Money attempted in London The Continuance of the Convocation
not permitted to go quietly to the performance of that Duty and protesting against all Determinations as of none effect that should pass in the House of Lords during their forced absence which the House of Commons taking hold of sent up to the Peers one of their Members to accuse them of High Treason whereupon ten of them were sent to the Tower after which time there were no more words of their High Treason but there passed a Bill by which they were deprived of their Votes in Parliament and to this Bill they got the Kings Assent and in the beginning of September after they voted that the Bishops should have no more to do in the Government of the Church but to this they had not the King's Assent the War being now begun B. What made the Parliament so averse to Episcopacy and especially the House of Lords whereof the Bishops were Members for I see no reason why they should do it to gratifie a number of poor Parish Priests that were Presbyterians and that were never likely any way to serve the Lords but on the contrary to do their best to pull down their power and subject them to their Synods and Classes A. For the Lords very few of them did perceive the intention of the Presbyterians and besides that they durst not I believe oppose the Lower House B. But why were the Lower House so earnest against them A. Because they meant to make use of their Tenents and with pretended Sanctity to make the King and his Party odious to the People by whose help they were to set up Democracy and depose the King or to let him have the Title only so long as he should act for their purposes but not only the Parliament but in a manner all the People of England were their Enemies upon the account of their behaviour as being they said too imperious This was all that was colourably laid to their charge the main cause of pulling them down was the envy of the Presbyterians that incensed the People against them and against Episcopacy it self B. How would the Presbyterians have the Church to be governed A. By National and Provincial Synods B. Is not this to make the National Assembly an Arch-bishop and the Provincial Assemblies so many Bishops A. Yes but every Minister shall have the delight of sharing the Government and consequently of being able to be revenged on them that do not admire their Learning and help to fill their Purses and win to their Service them that do B. 'T is a hard Case that there should be two Factions to trouble the Common-wealth without any Interest in it of their own other than every particular man may have and that their quarrels should be only about Opinions that is about who has the most Learning as if their Learning ought to be the Rule of governing all the World What is it they are learned in Is it Politicks and Rules of State I know it is called Divinity but I hear almost nothing preach'd but matter of Philosophy For Religion in it self admits no controversie 'T is a Law of the Kingdom and ought not to be disputed I do not think they pretend to speak with God and know his Will by any other way than reading the Scriptures which we also do A. Yes some of them do and give themselves out for Prophets by extraordinary Inspiration but the rest pretend only for their Advancement to Benefices and Charge of Souls a greater skill in the Scriptures than other men have by reason of their breeding in the Universities and knowledge there gotten of the Latin Tongue and some also of the Greek and Hebrew Tongues wherein the Scripture was written besides their knowledge of Natural Philosophy which is there publickly taught B. As for the Latin Greek and Hebrew Tongues it was once to the Detection of Roman fraud and to the ejection of the Romish Power very profitable or rather necessary but now that 's done and we have the Scripture in English and preaching in English I see no great need of Latin Greek and Hebrew I should think my self better qualified by understanding well the Languages of our Neighbours French Dutch and Italian I think it was never seen in the World before the power of Popes was set up that Philosophy was much conducing to Power in a Common-wealth A. But Philosophy together with Divinity have very much conduced to the advancement of the Professors thereof to Places of the greatest Authority next to the Authority of Kings themselves in most of the ancient Kingdoms of the World as is manifestly to be seen in the History of those times B. I pray you cite me some of the Authors and Places A. First what were the Druids of old time in Britany and France What Authority these had you may see in Caesar Strabo and others and especially in Diodorus Siculus the greatest Antiquary perhaps that ever was who speaking of the Druids which he calls Sarovides in France says thus There be also amongst them certain Philosophers and Theologians that are exceedingly honoured whom they also use as Prophets these Men by their skill in Augury and Inspection into the Bowels of Beasts sacrificed foretel what is to come and have the Multitude obedient to them And a little after It is a Custom amongst them that no man may sacrifice without a Philosopher because say they men ought not to present their thanks to the Gods but by them that know the Divine Nature and are as it were of the same Language with them and that all good things ought by such as these to be prayed for B. I can hardly believe that those Druids were very skilful either in Natural Philosophy or Moral A. Nor I for they held and taught the Transmigration of Souls from one Body to another as did Pythagoras which Opinion whether they took from him or he from them I cannot tell What were the Magi in Persia but Philosophers and Astrologers You know how they came to find our Saviour by the conduct of a Star either from Persia it self or from some Countrey more Eastward than Judea Were not these in great Authority in their Countrey And are they not in most part of Christendome thought to have been Kings Aegypt hath been thought by many the most ancient Kingdom and Nation of the World and their Priests had the greatest power in Civil Affairs that any Subjects ever had in any Nation And what were they but Philosophers and Divines concerning whom the same Diodorus Siculus says thus The whole Countrey of Aegypt being divided into three parts the Body of the Priests have one as being of most credit with the People both for their Devotion towards the Gods and also for their understanding gotten by Education and presently after for generally these men in the greatest Affairs of all are the King's Councellors partly executing and partly informing and advising foretelling him also by their skill in Astrology and Art in the Inspection
was courting the Gentlemen there the Committee was instigating of the Yeomanry against him To which also the Ministers did very much contribute So that the King lost his opportunity at York B. Why did not the King seize the Committee into his Hands or drive them out of Town A. I know not but I believe he knew the Parliament had a greater Party than he not only in York-shire but also in York Towards the end of April the King upon Petition of the People of York-shire to have the Magazine of Hull to remain still there for the greater security of the Northern parts thought fit to take it into his own Hands He had a little before appointed Governour of that Town the Earl of New-Castle but the Towns-men having been already corrupted by the Parliament refused to receive him but refused not to receive Sir John Hotham appointed to be Governour by the Parliament The King therefore coming before the Town guarded only by his own Servants and a few Gentlemen of the Countrey thereabouts was denied entrance by Sir John Hotham that stood upon the Wall for which Act he presently caused Sir John Hotham to be proclaimed Traitor and sent a Message to the Parliament requiring Justice to be done upon the said Hotham and that the Town and Magazine might be delivered into his hands To which the Parliament made no answer but in stead thereof published another Declaration in which they omitted nothing of their former slanders against his Majesties Government but inserted certain Propositions declarative of their own pretended Right viz. 1. That whatsoever they declare to be Law ought not to be question'd by the King 2. That no Precedents can be limits to bound their proceedings 3. That a Parliament for the publick good may dispose of any thing wherein the King or Subject hath a Right and that they without the King are this Parliament and the Judge of this publick good and that the King's Consent is not necessary 4. That no Member of either House ought to be troubled for Treason Felony or any other Crime unless the Cause be first brought before the Parliament that they may judge of the Fact and give leave to proceed if they see cause 5. That the Sovereign Power resides in both Houses and that the King ought to have no Negative Voice 6 That the Levying of Forces against the personal Commands of the King though accompanied with his presence is not Levying War against the King but the Levying of War against his Politick Person viz. his Laws c. 7. That Treason cannot be committed against his Person otherwise than as he is entrusted with the Kingdom and discharges that Trust and that they have a power to judge whether he have discharged this Trust or not 8. That they may dispose of the King when they will B. This is plain dealing and without Hypocrisie Could the City of London swallow this A. Yes and more too if need be London you know has a great Belly but no Pallat nor Tast of Right and Wrong In the Parliament Roll of Hen. 4. amongst the Articles of the Oath the King at his Coronation took there is one runs thus Concedes just as Leges Consuetudines esse tenendas promittes per te eas esse protegendas ad honorem Dei corroborandas quas vulgus elegerit Which the Parliament urged for their Legislative Authority and therefore interpret quas vulgus elegerit which the People shall choose as if the King should swear to protect and corroborate Laws before they were made whether they be good or bad whereas the words signifie no more but that he shall protect and corroborate such Laws as they have chosen that is to say the Acts of Parliament then in being And in the Records of the Exchequer it is thus Will you grant to hold and keep the Laws and rightful Customs which the Commonalty of this your Kingdom have and will you defend and uphold them c. And this was the Answer his Majesty made to that Point B. And I think this Answer very full and clear but if the words were to be interpreted in the other sense yet I see no reason why the King should be bound to swear to them for Hen. 4. came to the Crown by the Votes of a Parliament not much inferior in wickedness to this Long Parliament that deposed and murdered their Lawful King saving that it was not the Parliament it self but the Usurper that murdered King Richard the second A. About a week after in the beginning of May the Parliament sent the King another Paper which they stiled the humble Petition and Advice of both Houses containing 19 Propositions which when you shall hear you shall be able to judge what power they meant to leave to the King more than to any one of his Subjects The first of them is this 1. That the Lords and others of his Majesties Privy-Council and all great Officers of State both at home and abroad be put from their Employments and from his Council save only such as should be approved of by both Houses of Parliament and none put into their places but by approbation of the said Houses And that all Privy-Councellors take an Oath for the due execution of their places in such form as shall be agreed upon by the said Houses 2. That the great Affairs of the Kingdom be debated resolved and transacted only in Parliament and such as shall presume to do any thing to the contrary be reserved to the censure of the Parliament and such other matters of State as are proper for his Majesties Privy-Council shall be debated and concluded by such as shall from time to time be chosen for that place by both Houses of Parliament and that no publick Act concerning the Affairs of the Kingdom which are proper for his Privy-Council be esteemed valid as proceeding from the Royal Authority unless it be done by the Advice and Consent of the Major part of the Councel attested under their Hands and that the Council be not more than 25 nor less than 15 and that when a Councellors place falls void in the Interval of Parliament it shall not be supplied without the Assent of the Major part of the Council and that such choice also shall be void if the next Parliament after confirm it not 3. That the Lord High Steward of England Lord High Constable Lord Chancellor or Lord Keeper of the Great Seal Lord Treasurer Lord Privy-Seal Earl Marshal Lord Admiral Warden of the Cinque Ports Chief Governour of Ireland Chancellor of the Exchequer Master of the Wards Secretaries of State two Chief Justices and Chief Baron be always chosen with the Approbation of both Houses of Parliament and in the Intervals of Parliament by the Major part of the Privy-Council 4. That the Government of the King's Children shall be committed to such as both Houses shall approve of and in the Intervals of Parliament such as the Privy-Council
Cromwel after he had gotten into his own hands the absolute power of England Scotland and Ireland by the Name of Protector did never dare to take upon him the Title of King nor was ever able to settle it upon his Children His Officers would not suffer it as pretending after his death to succeed him nor would the Army consent to it because he had ever declared to them against the Government of a single person B. But to return to the King What Means had he to pay What Provision had he to Arm nay Means to Levy an Army able to resist the Army of the Parliament maintained by the great Purse of the City of London and Contributions of almost all the Towns Corporate in England and furnished with Arms as fully as they could require A. 'T is true the King had great disadvantages and yet by little and little he got a considerable Army with which he so prospered as to grow stronger every day and the Parliament weaker till they had gotten the Scotch with an Army of 21000 Men to come into England to their Assistance But to enter into the particular Narration of what was done in the War I have not now time B. Well then we will talk of that at next meeting Behemoth PART III. B. WE left at the Preparations on both sides for War which when I considered by my self I was mightily puzled to find out what possibility there was for the King to equal the Parliament in such a course and what hopes he had of Money Men Arms Fortified places Shipping Councel and Military Officers sufficient for such an Enterprize against the Parliament that had Men and Money as much at command as the City of London and other Corporation Towns were able to furnish which was more than they needed And for the Men they should set forth for Soldiers they were almost all of them spightfully bent against the King and his whole Party whom they took to be either Papists or Flatterers of the King or that had designed to raise their Fortunes by the plunder of the City and other Corporation Towns And though I believe not that they were more valiant than other Men nor that they had so much experience in the War as to be accounted good Soldiers yet they had that in them which in time of Battle is more conducing to Victory than Valor and Experience both together and that was spight And for Arms they had in their hands the Chief Magazines the Tower of London and the Town of Kingston upon Hull besides most of the Powder and Shot that lay in several Towns for the use of the Train'd Bands Fortified places there were not many then in England and most of them in the hands of the Parliament The King's Fleet was wholly in their Command under the Earl of Warwick Councellors they needed no more than such as were of their own Body so that the King was every way inferior to them except it were perhaps in Officers A. I cannot compare their Chief Officers for the Parliament the Earl of Essex after the Parliament had voted the War was made General of all their Forces both in England and Ireland from whom all other Commanders were to receive their Commissions B. What moved them to make General the Earl of Essex And for what cause was the Earl of Essex so displeased with the King as to accept that Office A. I do not certainly know what to answer to either of those Questions but the Earl of Essex had been in the Wars abroad and wanted neither Experience Judgment nor Courage to perform such an undertaking And besides that you have heard I believe how great a Darling of the People his Father had been before him and what Honour he had gotten by the Success of his Enterprize upon Cales and in some other Military Actions To which I may add that this Earl himself was not held by the people to be so great a Favorite at Court as that they might not trust him with their Army against the King And by this you may perhaps conjecture the Cause for which the Parliament made choice of him for General B. But why did they think him discontented with the Court A. I know not that nor indeed that he was so He came to the Court as other Noble-men did when occasion was to wait upon the King but had no Office till a little before this time to oblige him to be there continually but I believe verily that the unfortunateness of his Marriages had so discountenanced his Conversation with Ladies that the Court could not be his proper Element unless he had had some extraordinary favour there to ballance that Calamity but for particular discontent from the King or intention of revenge for any supposed disgrace I think he had none nor that he was any ways addicted to Presbyterian Doctrines or other Fanatick Tenets in Church or State saving only that he was carried away with the Stream in a manner of the whole Nation to think that England was not an absolute but a mixt Monarchy not considering that the Supream Power must always be absolute whether it be in the King or in the Parliament B. Who was General of the King's Army A. None yet but himself nor indeed had he yet any Army but there coming to him at that time his two Nephews the Princes Rupert and Maurice he put the Command of his Horse into the Hands of Prince Rupert a Man than whom no man living has a better Courage nor was more active and diligent in prosecuting his Commissions and though but a young man then was not without experience in the conducting of Soldiers as having been an Actor in part of his Fathers Wars in Germany B. But how could the King find Money to pay such an Army as was necessary for him against the Parliament A. Neither the King nor Parliament had much Money at that time in their own Hands but were fain to rely upon the Benevolence of those that took their parts Wherein I confess the Parliament had a mighty great advantage Those that helped the King in that kind were only Lords and Gentlemen which not approving the proceedings of the Parliament were willing to undertake the payment every one of a certain number of Horse which cannot be thought any very great assistance the persons that payed them being so few For other Moneys that the King then had I have not heard of any but what he borrowed upon Jewels in the Low Countries Whereas the Parliament had a very plentiful Contribution not only from London but generally from their Faction in all other places of England upon certain Propositions published by the Lords and Commons in June 1642. at what time they had newly voted that the King intended to make War upon them for bringing in of Money or Plate to maintain Horse and Horse-men and to buy Arms for the preservation of the publick Peace and for the defence of the
King and both Houses of Parliament For the re-payment of which Money and Plate they were to have the Publick Faith B. What Publick Faith is there when there is no Publick What is it that can be called Publick in a Civil War without the King A. The Truth is the Security was nothing worth but served well enough to gull those seditious Blockheads that were more fond of Change than either of their Peace or Profit Having by this means gotten Contributions from those that were the well-affected to their Cause they made use of it afterwards to force the like Contribution from others For in November following they made an Ordinance for Assessing also of those that had not contributed then or had contributed but not proportionably to their Estates And yet this was contrary to what the Parliament promised and declar'd in the Propositions themselves for they declar'd in the first Proposition That no man's affection should be measured by the proportion of his Offer so that he expressed his good will to the Service in any proportion whatsoever Besides this in the beginning of March following they made an Ordinance to Levy weekly a great Sum of Money upon every County City Town Place and Person of any Estate almost in England which weekly Sum as may appear by the Ordinance it self printed and published in March 1642. by Order of both Houses comes to almost 33000 l. and consequently to above 1700000 l. for the year They had besides all this the profits of the Kings Lands and Woods and whatsoever was remaining unpaid of any Subsidy formerly granted him and the Tonnage and Poundage usually received by the King besides the profit of the Sequestrations of great Persons whom they pleased to vote Delinquents and the profits of the Bishops Lands which they took to themselves a year or a little more after B. Seeing then the Parliament had such advantage of the King in Money and Arms and Multitude of Men and had in their Hands the King's Fleet I cannot imagine what hope the King could have either of Victory unless he resigned into their Hands the Sovereignty or subsisting for I cannot well believe he had any advantage of them either in Councellors Conductors or in the Resolutions of his Soldiers A. On the contrary I think he had also some disadvantage in that for though he had as good Officers at least as any then served the Parliament yet I doubt he had not so useful Councel as was necessary and for his Soldiers though they were men as stout as theirs yet because their Valor was not sharpned so with malice as theirs was of the other side they fought not so keenly as their Enemies did amongst whom there were a great many London Apprentices who for want of Experience in the War would have been fearful enough of Death and Wounds approaching visibly in glistering Swords but for want of Judgment scarce thought of such death as comes invisibly in a Bullet and therefore were very hardly to be driven out of the Field B. But what fault do you find in the King's Councellors Lords and other Persons of Quality and Experience A. Only that fault which was generally in the whole Nation which was that they thought the Government of England was not an absolute but a mixt Monarchy and that if the King should clearly subdue this Parliament that his Power would be what he pleased and theirs as little as he pleased which they counted Tyranny This opinion though it did not lessen their endeavour to gain the Victory for the King in a Battle when a Battle could not be avoided yet it weakned their endeavour to procure him an absolute Victory in the War And for this Cause notwithstanding that they saw that the Parliament was firmly resolv'd to take all Kingly Power whatsoever out of his Hands yet their Counsel to the King was upon all occasions to offer Propositions to them of Treaty and Accommodation and to make and publish Declarations which any man might easily have foreseen would be fruitless and not only so but also of great disadvantage to those Actions by which the King was to recover his Crown and preserve his Life for it took off the Courage of the best and forwardest of his Soldiers that looked for great benefit by their Service out of the Estates of the Rebels in case they could subdue them but none at all if the business should be ended by a Treaty B. And they had reason for a Civil War never ends by Treaty without the Sacrifice of those who were on both sides the sharpest You know well enough how things pass'd at the Reconciliation of Augustus and Antonius in Rome but I thought that after they once began to Levy Soldiers one against another that they would not any more have return'd of either side to Declarations or other Paper War which if it could have done any good would have done it long before this A. But seeing the Parliament continued writing and set forth their Declarations to the People against the Lawfulness of the King's Commission of Array and sent Petitions to the King as fierce and rebellious as ever they had done before demanding of him That he would disband his Soldiers and come up to the Parliament and leave those whom the Parliament called Delinquents which were none but the King 's best Subjects to their Mercy and pass such Bills as they should advise him would you not have the King set forth Declarations and Proclamations against the Illegality of their Ordinances by which they Levied Soldiers against him and answer those insolent Petitions of theirs B. No it had done him no good before and therefore was not likely to do him any afterwards for the common people whose hands were to decide the Controversie understood not the Reasons of either Party and for those that by Ambition were once set upon the Enterprize of changing the Government they cared not much what was Reason and Justice in the Cause but what strength they might procure by reducing the Multitude with Remonstrances from the Parliament House or by Sermons in the Churches And to their Petitions I would not have had any Answer made at all more than this that if they would disband their Army and put themselves upon his Mercy they should find him more Gratious than they expected A. That had been a gallant Answer indeed if it had proceeded from him after some extraordinary great Victory in Battle or some extraordinary assurance of a Victory at last in the whole War B. Why What could have hap'ned to him worse than at length he suffered notwithstanding his gentle Answers and all his reasonable Declarations A. Nothing but who knew that B. Any man might see that he was never like to be restored to his Right without Victory and such his stoutness being known to the People would have brought to his assistance many more hands than all the Arguments of Law or force of Eloquence couched in Declarations
they require first That the King be brought to Justice 2. That the Prince and Duke of York be summoned to appear at a day appointed and proceeded with according as they should give satisfaction 3. That the Parliament settle the Peace and future Government and set a reasonable period to their own sitting and make certain future Parliaments Annual or Biennial 4. That a competent number of the King 's Chief Instruments be executed And this to be done both by the House of Commons and by a general Agreement of the People testified by their Subscriptions Nor did they stay for an Answer but presently set a Guard of Soldiers at the Parliament-house-door and other Soldiers in Westminster-Hall suffering none to go into the House but such as would serve their turns All others were frighted away or made Prisoners and some upon divers quarrels suspended Above 90 of them because they had refused to vote against the Scots and others because they had voted against the Vote of Non-Addresses and the rest were an House for Cromwel The Fanaticks also in the City being countenanced by the Army pack a new Common Councel whereof any forty was to be above the Major and their first work was to frame a Petition for Justice against the King which Tichborne the Major involving the City in the Regicide delivered to the Parliament At the same time with the like violence they took the King from Newport in the Isle of Wight to Hurst Castle till things were ready for his Trial. The Parliament in the mean time to avoid perjury by an Ordinance declared void the Oaths of Supremacy and Allegiance and presently after made another to bring the King to his Trial. B. This is a piece of Law that I understood not before that when many Men swear singly they may when they are assembled if they please absolve themselves A. The Ordinance being drawn up was brought into the House where after three several Readings it was voted That the Lords and Commons of England assembled in Parliament do declare That by the fundamental Laws of the Realm it is Treason in the King of England to Levy War against the Parliament And this Vote was sent up to the Lords and they denying their consent the Commons in anger made another Vote That all Members of Committees should proceed and act in any Ordinance whether the Lords concurred or no and that the People under God are the original of all just Power and that the House of Commons have the Supream Power of the Nation and that whatsoever the House of Commons enacteth is Law All this passed nemine contradicente B. These Propositions fight not only against a King of England but against all the Kings of the World It were good they thought on 't but yet I believe under God the original of all Laws was in the People A. But the People for them and their Heirs by consent and Oaths have long ago put the Supream Power of the Nation into the hands of their Kings for them and their Heirs and consequently into the hands of this King their known and lawful Heir B. But does not the Parliament represent the People A. Yes to some purposes as to put up Petitions to the King when they have leave and are grieved but not to make a Grievance of the King's Power Besides the Parliament never represents the People but when the King calls them nor is it to be imagin'd that he calls a Parliament to depose himself Put the Case every County and Burrough should have given this Parliament for a Benevolence a Sum of Money and that every County meeting in their County-Court or elsewhere and every Burrough in their Town-Hall should have chosen certain men to carry their several Sums respectively to the Parliament Had not these men represented the whole Nation B. Yes no doubt A. Do you think the Parliament would have thought it reasonable to be called to account by this Representative B. No sure and yet I must confess the Case is the same A. This Ordinance contained first a Summary of the Charge against the King in substance this That not content with the Encroachments of his Predecessors upon the freedom of the People he had designed to set up a Tyrannical Government and to that end had raised and maintained in the Land a Civil War against the Parliament whereby the Country hath been miserably wasted the publick Treasure exhausted thousands of people murdered and infinite other mischiefs committed Secondly A Constitution passed of a High Court of Justice that is of a certain number of Commissioners of whom any 20 had Power to try the King and to proceed to Sentence according to the merit of the Cause and see it speedily executed The Commissioners met on Saturday Jan. 20 th in Westminster-Hall and the King was brought before them where sitting in a Chair he heard the Charge read but denied to plead to it either Guilty or Not Guilty till he should know by what Lawful Authority he was brought thither The President told him That the Parliament affirmed their own Authority and the King persevered in his refusal to plead though many words passed between him and the President yet this was the substance of it all On Monday January 22 the Court met again and the Solicitor moved that if the King persisted in denying the Authority of the Court the Charge might be taken pro confesso but the King still denied their Authority They met again January 23 and then the Solicitor moved the Court for Judgment whereupon the King was requir'd to give his final Answer which was again a denial of their Authority Lastly They met again January 27 where the King desir'd to be heard before the Lords and Commons in the Painted Chamber and promising after that to abide the Judgment of the Court The Commissioners retir'd for half an hour to consider of it and then returning caused the King to be brought again to the Bar and told him that what he proposed was but another denial of the Courts Jurisdiction and that if he had no more to say they would proceed Then the King answering that he had no more to say the President began a long Speech in Justification of the Parliaments Proceedings producing the Examples of many Kings killed or deposed by wicked Parliaments Ancient and Modern in England Scotland and other parts of the World All which he endeavoured to justifie from this only Principle That the People have the Supream Power and the Parliament is the People This Speech ended the Sentence of death was read and the same upon Tuesday after January 30 executed at the Gate of his own Palace of White-hall He that can delight in reading how villainously he was used by the Soldiers between the Sentence and Execution may go to the Chronicle it self in which he shall see what Courage Patience Wisdom and Goodness was in this Prince whom in their Charge the Members of that wicked Parliament
forth they were erecting that High Court of Justice which took away the Lives of Duke Hamilton the Earl of Holland and the Lord Capel Whatsoever they meant by a fundamental Law the erecting of this Court was a breach of it as being warranted by no former Law or Example in England At the same time also they Levied Taxes by Soldiers and to Soldiers permitted Free quarter and did many other Actions which if the King had done they would have said had been done against the Liberty and Propriety of the Subject B. What silly things are the common sort of people to be cozened as they were so grosly A. What sort of people as to this matter are not of the common sort The craftiest Knaves of all the Rump were no wiser than the rest whom they cozened for the most of them did believe that the same things which they imposed upon the generality were just and reasonable and especially the great Haranguers and such as pretended to Learning for who can be a good Subject in a Monarchy whose Principles are taken from the Enemies of Monarchy such as were Cicero Seneca Cato and other Politicians of Rome and Aristotle of Athens who seldom spake of Kings but as of Wolves and other ravenous Beasts You may perhaps think a man has need of nothing else to know the Duty he owes to his Governour and what Right he has to order him but a good Natural Wit but it is otherwise for it is a Science and built upon sure and clear Principles and to be learned by deep and careful study or from Masters that have deeply studied it and who was there in the Parliament or in the Nation that could find out those evident Principles and derive from them the necessary Rules of Justice and the necessary Connexion of Justice and Peace The People have one day in seven the leisure to hear Instruction and there are Ministers appointed to teach them their Duty but how have those Ministers performed their Office A great part of them namely the Presbyterian Ministers throughout the whole War instigated the People against the King so did also Independents and other Fanatick Ministers The rest contented with their Livings preached in their Parishes Points of Controversie to Religion impertinent but to the breach of Charity among them selves very effectual or else eloquent things which the People either understood not or thought themselves not concerned in But this sort of Preachers as they did little good so they did little hurt The mischief proceeded wholly from the Presbyterian Preachers who by a long practiced Histrionique faculty preached up the Rebellion powerfully B. To what end A. To the end that the State becoming popular the Church might be so too and governed by an Assembly and by consequence as they thought seeing Politicks are subservient to Religion they might govern and thereby satisfie not only their covetous humour with Riches but also their malice with power to undo all men that admir'd not their wisdom Your calling the People silly things obliged me by this Digression to shew you that it is not want of Wit but want of the Science of Justice that brought them into these troubles Perswade if you can that man that has made his fortune or made it greater or an Eloquent Orator or a Ravishing Poet or a subtil Lawyer or but a good Hunter or a cunning Gamester that he has not a good Wit and yet there were of all these a great many so silly as to be deceiv'd by the Rump and Members of the same Rump They wanted not Wit but the knowledge of the Causes and Grounds upon which one Person has a Right to govern and the rest an Obligation to obey which Grounds are necessary to be taught the People who without them cannot live long in peace amongst themselves B. Let us return if you please to the Proceedings of the Rump A. In the rest of this year they voted a new Stamp for the Coyn of this Nation They considered also of Agents to be sent to Forreign States and having lately receiv'd applause from the Army for their work done by the High Court of Justice and encouragement to extend the same farther they perfected the said High Court of Justice in which were tryed Duke Hamilton the Earl of Holland Lord Capel the Earl of Norwich and Sir John Owen whereof as I mentioned before the three first were beheaded This affrighted divers of the King's Party out of the Land for not only they but all that had born Arms for the King were at that time in very great danger of their Lives For it was put to the question by the Army at a Councel of War whether they should be all Massacred or no where the Noes carried it but by two Voices Lastly March the 24 th they put the Major of London out of his Office fined him 2000 l. disfranchised him and condemned him to two months Imprisonment in the Tower for refusing to proclaim the Act for abolishing the Kingly Power And thus ended the year 1648. and the Monthly Fast God having granted that which they fasted for the Death of the King and the Possession of his Inheritance By these their Proceedings they had already lost the Hearts of the generality of the People and had nothing to trust to but the Army which was not in their power but in Cromwel's who never failed when there was occasion to put them upon all Exploits that might make them odious to the people in order to his future dissolving them whensoever it should conduce to his ends In the beginning of 1649. the Scots discontented with the Proceedings of the Rump against the late King began to Levy Soldiers in order to a new Invasion of England The Irish Rebels for want of timely resistance from England were grown terrible and the English Army at home infected by the Adjutators were casting how to share the Land amongst the Godly meaning themselves and such others as they pleased who were therefore called Levellers Also the Rump for the present were not very well provided of Money and therefore the first thing they did was the laying of a Tax upon the People of 90000 l. a month for the maintenance of the Army B. Was it not one of their quarrels with the King That he had Levied Money without the consent of the People in Parliament A. You may see by this what reason the Rump had to call it self a Parliament for the Taxes imposed by Parliament were always understood to be by the Peoples consent and consequently Legal To appease the Scots they sent Messengers with flattering Letters to keep them from engaging for the present King but in vain for they would hear nothing from a House of Commons as they called it at Westminster without a King and Lords But they sent Commissioners to the King to let him know what they were doing for him for they were resolv'd to raise an Army of 17000 Foot and
to signifie the Declaration of the War and to get them to their Party recalled their Ambassadors from England and the Rump without delay gave them their parting Audience without abating a Syllable of their former severe Propositions And presently to maintain the War for the next year laid a Tax upon the People of 120000 l. per Mensem B. What was done in the mean time at home A. Cromwel was now quarreling the last and greatest obstacle to his Design the Rump And to that end there came out daily from the Army Petitions Addresses Remonstrances and other such Papers some of them urging the Rump to dissolve themselves and make way for another Parliament To which the Rump unwilling to yield and not daring to refuse determined for the end of their sitting the fifth of November 1654. But Cromwel meant not to stay so long In the mean time the Army in Ireland was taking Submissions and granting Transportations of the Irish and condemning whom they pleas'd in a High Court of Justice erected there for that purpose Amongst those that were executed was hang'd Sir Phelim Oneale who first began the Rebellion In Scotland the English built some Citadels for the bridling of that stubborn Nation and thus ended the year 1652. B. Come we then to the year 1653. A. Cromwel wanted now but one step to the end of his Ambition and that was to set his Foot upon the Neck of this Long Parliament which he did April the 23 d of this present year 1653. a time very seasonable For though the Dutch were not mastered yet they were much weakned and what with Prizes from the Enemy and squeezing the Royal Party the Treasury was pretty full and the Tax of 120000 l. a month began to come in all which was his own in right of the Army Therefore without more ado attended by the Major-Generals Lambert and Harrison and some other Officers and as many Soldiers as he thought fit he went to the Parliament-house and dissolv'd them turned them out and locked up the doors And for this Action he was more applauded by the People than for any of his Victories in the War and the Parliament-men as much scorned and derided B. Now that there was no Parliament who had the Supream Power A. If by Power you mean the Right to govern no body had it if you mean the Supream Strength it was clearly in Cromwel who was obeyed as General of all the Forces in England Scotland and Ireland B. Did he pretend that for Title A. No but presently after he invented a Title which was this That he was necessitated for the defence of the Cause for which at first the Parliament had taken up Arms that is to say rebelled to have recourse to extraordinary Actions You know the pretence of the Long Parliaments Rebellion was Salus Populi The safety of the Nation against a dangerous Conspiracy of Papists and a Malignant Party at home and that every man is bound as far as his Power extends to procure the safety of the whole Nation which none but the Army were able to do and the Parliament had hitherto neglected was it not then the General 's Duty to do it Had he not therefore Right For that Law of Salus Populi is directed only to those that have Power enough to defend the People that is to them that have the Supream Power B. Yes certainly he had as good a Title as the Long Parliament But the Long Parliament did represent the People and it seems to me that the Sovereign Power is essentially annexed to the Representative of the People A. Yes if he that makes a Representative that is in the present Case the King do call them together to receive the Sovereign Power and he divest himself thereof otherwise not Nor was ever the Lower House of Parliament the Representative of the whole Nation but of the Commons only nor had that House the power to oblige by their Acts or Ordinances any Lord or any Priest B. Did Cromwel come in upon the only Title of Salus Populi A. This is a Title that very few men understand His way was to get the Supream Power confer'd upon him by Parliament Therefore he call'd a Parliament and gave it the Supream Power to the end that they should give it to him again Was not this witty First therefore he published a Declaration of the Causes why he dissolv'd the Parliament The sum whereof was that in stead of endeavouring to promote the good of God's People they endeavour'd by a Bill then ready to pass to recruit the House and perpetuate their own Power Next he constituted a Councel of State of his own Creatures to be the Supream Authority of England but no longer than till the next Parliament should be called and met Thirdly he summoned 142 Persons such as he himself or his Trusty Officers made choice of the greatest part of whom were instructed what to do obscure Persons and most of them Fanaticks though stiled by Cromwel men of approved fidelity and honesty To these the Councel of State surrendred the Supream Authority and not long after these men surrendred it to Cromwel July the fourth this Parliament met and chose for the Speaker one Mr. Rous and called themselves from that time forward the Parliament of England but Cromwel for the more surety constituted also a Councel of State not of such petty fellows as most of these were but of himself and his principal Officers These did all the business both publick and private making Ordinances and giving Audience to Forreign Ambassadors But he had now more Enemies than before Harrison who was the Head of the Fifth-monarchy-men laying down his Commission did nothing but animate his Party against him for which afterwards he was imprison'd This little Parliament in the mean time were making of Acts so ridiculous and displeasing to the People that it was thought he chose them on purpose to bring all Ruling Parliaments into contempt and Monarchy again into credit B. What Acts were these A. One of them was That all Marriages should be made by a Justice of Peace and the Banes asked three several days in the next Market None were forbidden to be married by a Minister but without a Justice of Peace the Marriage was to be void So that divers wary Couples to be sure of one another howsoever they might repent it afterwards were married both ways Also they abrogated the Engagement whereby no man was admitted to sue in any Court of Law that had not taken it that is that had not acknowledged the late Rump B. Neither of these did any hurt to Cromwel A. They were also in hand with an Act to cancel all the present Laws and Law-Books and to make a new Code more suitable to the humor of the Fifth-monarchy-men of whom there were many in this Parliament Their Tenent being that there ought none to be Sovereign but King Jesus nor any to govern under him but the Saints
which is a Person indued with Authority universal to govern all Christian men on Earth no more than there is one Universal Soveraign Prince or State on Earth that hath right to govern all Mankind I deny also that the whole Clergy of a Christian Kingdom or State being assembled are the representative of that Church further than the Civil Laws permits or can lawfully assemble themselves unless by the command or by the leave of the Soveraign Civil Power I say further that the denyal of this point tendeth in England towards the taking away of the Kings Supremacy in causes Ecclesiastical But his Lordship has not here denyed any thing of mine because he has done no more but set down my words He says further that this Doctrine destroyes the Authority of all General Councils which I confess Nor hath any General Council at this day in this Kingdom the force of a Law nor ever had but by the Authority of the King J. D. Neither is he more Orthodox concerning the Holy Scriptures Hitherto that is for the Books of Moses the power of making the Scripture Canonical was in the Civil Soveraign The like he saith of the Old Testament made Canonical by Esdras And of the New Testament That it was not the Apostles which made their own Writings Canonical but every Convert made them so to himself Yet with this restriction That until the Soveraign Ruler had prescribed them they were but Counsel and Advice which whether good or bad he that was counselled might without injustice refuse to observe and being contrary to the Laws established could not without injustice observe He maketh the Primitive Christians to have been in a pretty condition Certainly the Gospel was contrary to the Laws then established But most plainly The word of the Interpreter of the Scripture is the word of God And the same is the Interpreter of the Scripture and the Soveraign Judge of all Doctrines that is the Soveraign Magistrate to whose Authority we must stand no less than to theirs who at first did commend the Scripture to us for the Canon of Faith Thus if Christian Soveraigns of different Communications do clash one with another in their interpretations or misinterpretation of Scripture as they do daily then the word of God is contradictory to it self or that is the word of God in one Common-wealth which is the word of the Devil in another Common-wealth And the same thing may be true and not true at the same time Which is the peculiar priviledge of T.H. to make Contradictories to be true together T. H. There is no doubt but by what Authority the Scripture or any other Writing is made a Law by the same Authority the Scriptures are to be interpreted or else they are made Law in vain But to obey is one thing to believe is another which distinction perhaps his Lordship never heard of To obey is to do or forbear as one is commanded and depends on the Will but to believe depends not on the Will but on the providence and guidance of our hearts that are in the hands of God Almighty Laws only required obedience Belief requires Teachers and Arguments drawn either from Reason or from some thing already believed Where there is no reason for our Belief there is no reason we should believe The reason why men believe is drawn from the Authority of those men whom we have no just cause to mistrust that is of such men to whom no profit accrues by their deceiving us and of such men as never used to lye or else from the Authority of such men whose Promises Threats and Affirmations we have seen confirmed by God with Miracles If it be not from the Kings Authority that the Scripture is Law what other Authority makes it Law Here some man being of his Lordships judgment will perhaps laugh and say 't is the Authority of God that makes them Law I grant that But my question is on what Authority they believe that God is the Author of them Here his Lordship would have been at a Nonplus and turning round would have said the Authority of the Scripture makes good that God is their Author If it be said we are to believe the Scripture upon the Authority of the Universal Church why are not the Books we call Apocrypha the Word of God as well as the rest If this Authority be in the Church of England then it is not any other than the Authority of the Head of the Church which is the King For without the Head the Church is mute the Authority therefore is in the King which is all that I contended for in this point As to the Laws of the Gentiles concerning Religion in the Primitive times of the Church I confess they were contrary to Christian Faith But none of their Laws nor Terrors nor a mans own Will are able to take away Faith though they can compel to an external obedience and though I may blame the Ethnick Princes for compelling men to speak what they thought not yet I absolve not all those that have had the Power in Christian Churches from the same fault For I believe since the time of the first four General Councels there have been more Christians burnt and killed in the Christian Church by Ecclesiastical Authority than by the Heathen Emperors Laws for Religion only without Sedition All that the Bishop does in this Argument is but a heaving at the Kings Supremacy Oh but says he if two Kings interpret a place of Scripture in contrary sences it will follow that both sences are true It does not follow For the interpretation though it be made by just Authority must not therefore always be true If the Doctrine in the one sence be necessary to Salvation then they that hold the other must dye in their sins and be Damned But if the Doctrine in neither sence be necessary to Salvation then all is well except perhaps that they will call one another Atheists and fight about it J. D. All the power vertue use and efficacy which he ascribeth to the Holy Sacraments is to be signs or commemorations As for any sealing or confirming or conferring of Grace he acknowledgeth nothing The same he saith particularly of Baptism Upon which grounds a Cardinals red Hat or a Serjeant at Arms his Mace may be called Sacraments as well as Baptism or the holy Eucharist if they be only signs and commemorations of a benefit If he except that Baptism and the Eucharist are of Divine institution But a Cardinals red Hat or a Serjeant at Arms his Mace are not He saith truly but nothing to his advantage or purpose seeing he deriveth all the Authority of the Word and Sacraments in respect of Subjects and all our obligation to them from the Authority of the Soveraign Magistrate without which these words repent and be Baptized in the name of Jesus are but Counsel no Command And so a Serjeant at Arms his Mace and Baptism proceed both from
Act of Parliament for the abolishing the High Commission But though the High Commission were taken away yet the Parliament having other ends besides the setting up of the Presbyterate pursued the Rebellion and put down both Episcopacy and Monarchy erecting a power by them called The Common-wealth by others the Rump which men obeyed not out of Duty but for fear nor was there any humane Laws left in force to restrain any man from Preaching or Writing any Doctrine concerning Religion that he pleased and in this heat of the War it was impossible to disturb the Peace of the State which then was none And in this time it was that a Book called Leviathan was written in defence of the King's Power Temporal and Spiritual without any word against Episcopacy or against any Bishop or against the publick Doctrine of the Church It pleas'd God about Twelve years after the Usurpation of this Rump to restore His most Gracious Majesty that now is to his Fathers Throne and presently His Majesty restored the Bishops and pardoned the Presbyterians but then both the one and the other accused in Parliament this Book of Heresie when neither the Bishops before the War had declared what was Heresie when if they had it had been made void by the putting down of the High Commission at the importunity of the Presbyterians So fierce are men for the most part in dispute where either their Learning or Power is debated that they never think of the Laws but as soon as they are offended they cry out Crucifige forgetting what St. Paul saith even in case of obstinate holding of an Error 2 Tim. 2.24 25. The Servant of the Lord must not strive but be gentle unto all men apt to teach patient in meekness instructing those that oppose if God peradventure may give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth Of which counsel such fierceness as hath appeared in the Disputation of Divines down from before the Council of Nice to this present time is a Violation FINIS SEVEN Philosophical Problems AND TWO PROPOSITIONS OF GEOMETRY By Thomas Hobbes of Malmesbury With an Apology for Himself and his WRITINGS Dedicated to the KING in the year 1662. LONDON Printed for William Crook at the Green-Dragon without Temple-Bar 1682. TO THE KING THat which I do here most humbly present to Your Sacred Majesty is the best Part of my Meditations upon the Natural Causes of Events both of such as are commonly known and of such as have been of late artificially exhibited by the Curious They are ranged under seven Heads 1. Problems of Gravity 2. Problems of Tides 3. Problems of Vacuum 4. Problems of Heat 5. Problems of Hard and Soft 6. Problems of Wind and Weather 7. Problems of Motion Perpendicular and Oblique c. To which I have added Two Propositions of Geometry One is The Duplication of the Cube hitherto sought in vain The other A Detection of the absurd Use of Arithmetick as it is now applied to Geometry The Doctrine of Natural Causes hath not infallible and evident Principles For there is no Effect which the Power of God cannot produce by many several ways But seeing all Effects are produced by Motion he that supposing some one or more Motions can derive from them the necessity of that Effect whose Cause is required has done all that is to be expected from Natural Reason And though he prove not that the thing was thus produced yet he proves that thus it may be produced when the Materials and the power of Moving is in our hands which is as useful as if the Causes themselves were known And notwithstanding the absence of rigorous Demonstration this Contemplation of Nature if not rendred obscure by empty terms is the most Noble Imployment of the Mind that can be to such as are at leisure from their necessary Business This that I have done I know is an unworthy Present to be offered to a KING though considered as God considers Offerings together with the Mind and Fortune of the Offerer I hope will not be to Your Majesty unacceptable But that which I chiefly consider in it is that my Writing should be tryed by Your Majesties Excellent Reason untainted with the Language that has been invented or made use of by Men when they were puzzled and who is acquainted with all the Experiments of the time and whose approbation if I have the good Fortune to obtain it will protect my reasoning from the Contempt of my Adversaries I will not break the custom of joyning to my Offering a Prayer And it is That Your Majesty will be pleased to pardon this following short Apology for my Leviathan Not that I rely upon Apologies but upon Your Majesties most Gracious General Pardon That which is in it of Theology contrary to the general Current of Divines is not put there as my Opinion but propounded with submission to those that have the Power Ecclesiastical I did never after either in Writing or Discourse maintain it There is nothing in it against Episcopacy I cannot therefore imagine what reason any Episcopal-man can have to speak of me as I hear some of them do as of an Atheist or man of no Religion unless it be for making the Authority of the Church wholly upon the Regal Power which I hope Your Majesty will think is neither Atheism nor Heresie But what had I to do to meddle with matters of that nature seeing Religion is not Philosophy but Law It was written in a time when the pretence of Christ's Kingdom was made use of for the most horrid Actions that can be imagined And it was in just Indignation of that that I desired to see the bottom of that Doctrine of the Kingdom of Christ which divers Ministers then Preached for a Pretence to their Rebellion which may reasonably extenuate though not excuse the writing of it There is therefore no ground for so great a Calamny in my writing There is no sign of it in my Life and for my Religion when I was at the point of Death at St. Germains the Bishop of Durham can bear witness of it if he be asked Therefore I most humbly beseech Your Sacred Majesty not to believe so ill of me upon reports that proceed often and may do so now from the displeasure which commonly ariseth from difference in Opinion nor to think the worse of me if snatching up all the Weapons to fight against Your Enemies I lighted upon one that had a double edge Your Majesties Poor and most Loyal Subject THOMAS HOBBES PHILOSOPHICAL PROBLEMS· CHAP. I. Problems of Gravity A. WHat may be the cause think you that stones and other bodies thrown upward or carried up and left to their liberty fall down again for ought a man can see of their own accord I do not think with the old Philosophers that they have any love to the Earth or are sullen that they will neither go nor stay And yet I cannot imagine what body there is above