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A26931 Full and easie satisfaction which is the true and safe religion in a conference between D. a doubter, P. a papist, and R. a reformed Catholick Christian : in four parts ... / by Richard Baxter. Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691. 1674 (1674) Wing B1272; ESTC R15922 117,933 211

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Italians maintain that Christ is in the Sacrament when they do not believe that he is in Heaven 11. And many Nicodemites think that a man needs not expose himself to danger for his faith but may keep it to himself and do as his neighbours do especially where they have no other society to joyn with they think it better to joyn with the Popish Churches than none 12. And I have reason to think that it is but few among the multitude that understand indeed what the Papists hold while they go with them in the general Name and profession And in particular about Transubstantiation When even the subtle Schoolmen are not agreed of its proper sense as Durandus his instance for one doth prove I do not think that one of an hundred that receiveth their Eucharist doth in his heart believe that It is not Bread But some think that their Church it self meaneth otherwise And some say It is not for such as I to contradict them and dispute but I will leave every one to think as he will and so will I. 13. And as for Princes and Lords abroad Those that have once escaped Popery will take heed how they entertain it again unless lust and folly have sold them for a prey But they that live where their subjects are Papists dare not venture to shake so great a fabrick lest they overthrow themselves For 1. People are tumultuous 2. The Popish Clergie are rich and powerful and exceeding numerous 3. Religion is a thing that men are tender and tenacious of who are seriously of any 4. The Popish doctrine of deposing and killing excommunicate Kings maketh many Princes flatter the Priests for fear of losing ●heir lives They think that it is better make some advantage of the Popes friendship than to have such an enemy whose Knives and poison have easie access and whose armies we must watch against in peace as in a continued War and we know not when they are in our own houses or near us nor where nor when we are in safety 14. And alas the Great ones of the World have the greatest Temptations and not the weakest lusts and passions and have more of worldly and carnal Interest to carry them away 15. And the Papists Religion is notably suited to their lusts and carnal ends All which and much more may tell you that it no wonder that so many forreign Princes and States and Nobles can cleave to so sensless a way as Popery D. II. But how come so many among us in England to turn Papists of late years where Popery is discountenanced by the King Parliament and Laws R. Many of the same Causes do this which I need not reherse And 1. Too many both Noble and ignoble are prepared by their Lusts and by a vicious life There are many things in Popery which greatly accommodate a carnal mind and a debauched guilty Conscience which the Christian Protestant Religion affordeth not And a profligate flagitious person is likeliest to be forsaken of God and to be given up to believe a lye seeing they received not the truth in the love of it that they might be saved 2 Thess 2.10 11 12. I fear nothing so much as lest men turn Heart-Infidels and Tongue-Papists as the suitablest Reserve lest Christian Religion and the life to come should prove a truth And indeed great sins Cry for great Vengeance And what Greater than for Mind Will and Life to be forsaken of God 2. And alas except Lawyers Physicions and others bred up to Studies and Employments how few are there of Nobility or Gentry that are hard studying men And the great Mysteries of Religion will not be well learned and defended by a life of eating drinking playing jeasting gaming hawking hunting visitings of empty company lustfulness worldliness or vain-glorious pomp No men grow wise or Christians indeed by such a course 3. And indeed the Popish Priests are more industrious than too many of our Incumbent Ministers for which they are Commendable in their way The Erroneous are oft more zealous than the Orthodox And they that apprehend themselves between fear and hope are usually more industrious than they that by possession are secure which maketh the lower side so oft get up and the upper side go down And I would I might not say that our Ministers are too few of them able to deal with a trained Sophister Some are unable in this particular cause because they take it as a baffled pack of notorious Errors and thought that few sober persons were in danger of it And so they have honestly bent their studies and labours to the winning of sensual persons from their sins and are unfurnished in the Popish Controversies knowing that they can refer them to multitudes of Books which are unanswerable But alas too many also are unable through meer ignorance lowness of parts and gross insufficiency or negligence not only in this but other parts of their Ministerial work 4. And we have incurred no small dammage and danger by ignorant Over-doing against the Papists Partly with the self-wise Sectaries calling many laudable or blameless things by the Name of Popery Antichristianity and Idolatry because they are cross to their pre-judging partial conceits And partly by some unsound doctrines which some defend as parts of the Protestant Religion And partly by magnifying verbal differences and making a noise about them as if they were real and such as salvation lyeth on For want of skill to state a controversie and discern a verbal difference from a real And when a Papist can but shew their Novices one such palpable error in the Writings of a Protestant What sad work will he make with it and still harp upon that string and perswade the people that the rest of our differences are such like And thus many Overdoing well-meaning ignorant men both Ministers and people have unwittingly done as much to harden Papists and increase their numbers almost as if Satan had hired them as Spies to betray the Churches and Cause of Christ Yea and if one better studied in these points shall go a sounder and more successful way to work and take these weapons out of the Papists hands which some ignorant Protestants have given them the same mens blind zeal will rage against them as some did against Chillingworth Anthony Wotton and divers others our greatest Champions as if it were not themselves but these that were befriending Popery So that they neither can confute them soundly themselves nor will suffer others but zealous Protestants assault Christs ablest servants at their backs while their faces are towards the adversaries whom they oppose 5. But nothing among us except Ignorance and wickedness increaseth them more than the scandal of our numerous and some of them abominable Sects When the people see many zealous professors turn Quakers or Ranters or Seekers or Antinomians or Socinians or Familists and shall see the more tolerable parties Episcopal Presbyterian Independant Erastian Separatists and Anabaptists
condemning backbiting reproaching and making odious if not persecuteing one another and shunning many of them the Communion of one another as they do the Papists This makes them think that they must seek some surer soberer way than any of us have yet found and the Papists set in and tell them All these are branches broken off from the true Vine and withered This it is to depart from the Catholick Church when they are once gone thence there is no stop or consistence till they crumble all to dust and atomes You must become Roman Catholicks or go mad You see to what confusion all others tend If you once leave our Church you will never know where to settle Which Sect will you be of If an Independant why not an Anabaptist If an Anabaptist why not an Antinomian How will you ever know which one of all these is in the right All this is easily answered by a man of understanding But to the ignorant Vulgar it seemeth unanswerable And alas how many have given them this scandal Wo be to some by whom offence cometh 6. But the Contentions of our Clergie advantage them more than the divisions of the people when we are of many interests and many parties and proceed to make each other contemptible and odious especially when we come to hinder each other from the work of our Ministry A house and Kingdom divided cannot stand Christ tells us that the Devil himself is not so foolish as to divide his Kingdom All our consent and best endeavour is too little to save mens souls from sin and error And when one part is cast by and each part by contention hindereth the other the Papists have the far easier work When one part are not to come within five miles of Cities or Corporations where Papists are and those that may come near them are too few and many too indisposed or negligent in resisting them so that we are all overdone by their Priests in constant diligence especially with the Greater rank of men with whom one part of our Ministers have almost as little inclination as opportunity to converse no wonder if the Roman work go on 7. And alas how great advantage have they made of our late calamitous Civil Wars and manifold scandalous Rebellions Though indeed it was the terrour of their murdering about two hundred thousand in Ireland of which see Bishop Jones Sir John Temple and the Earl of Orery against Welsh which frightened those that I was acquainted with out of their peace and almost out of their wits here in England yet dead men are not heard on Earth and their service for the King in England serveth not only for a Cloke for that but for an advantage against many that stand in their way In all Civil Wars if the Clergy be drawn in to own several Causes especially if they own an ill Cause who ever prevaileth Religion suffereth by it while one part of them are laid by or hindered by the other 8. And though God hath greatly obliged this Nation to thankfulness by preserving our Superiours so much from Popery as he hath done yet some of their names are injuriously abused to entice men to the Popish way as if it had so much countenance and patronage that Interest might invite them to it 9. And the World is lyable to changes and weary of holding long in one way The name of Antiquity especially in Religion is venerable with all but yet it is Novelty that pleaseth in the Matter And when Popery is to us a New way honoured with the name of The old Religion it is a taking bait 10. But the grand cause of all is the common peoples Ignorance as being ungrounded in their own Religion and their badness who measure all by carnal Interests and all our great and manifold sins by which we have forfeited Gods presence and his grace and provoked him to leave us to the shame and ruine of our own lusts and delusions to undoe our selves Great sins bring great plagues And most men are of their Religion who have the greatest interest in their estimation and affections or that have greatest advantage on them by constant nearness familiarity kindred kindness or power to do them good or hurt in the World And therefore to your question Why so many of late turn Papists I shall but now concludingly answer you as I begun with you concerning the Cause of your own doubts They that have long lived under the light of the holy Gospel and among the mercies which have blest this Land and yet have been sincerely no true Christians but loved their fleshly lusts and pleasures and their wealth and worldly honour more than God or holiness or Heaven it is no wonder that they easily change their party and can be in siding of any Religion who are in sincerity of none and if God forsake their understandings and give them up to senseless and unreasonable opinions who would not live according to the knowledge which they had nor obey the truth which was clearly opened to them And such hypocrites and perfidious rebels against Christ all Protestants do confess themselves to have been who turn Papists and know what they do Because they profess to go from a state of damnation into a Church out of which there is no salvation if the Popes judgement be as powerful in Heaven as it is at Rome D. But is there no hope of ending these lamentable differences and removing the scandal of Infidels hereby or at least of living together like Neighbours without seeking each others blood or ruine R. 1. Yes when God shall by his Providence take down the worldly Greatness and Advantages of the Papacy and level the King of Rome with the true Pastors of his Church and turn the usurping Monarch of all the World into a true Bishop that so worldly Power honour and wealth may not be stronger arguments with their party than Heaven and Hell and Gods commands Till then their Great twisted Interest is like to rule them and keep them in the errours into which it hath involved them Especially while their pretended Infallibility against all sense and reason is their strength which maketh them uncurable in any errour which they once embrace 2. But yet I did in the second Part of my Key for Catholicks long ago shew the terms on which we may live like neighbours if not like Christians if their principles would allow their minds to be but peaceable and give dissenters leave to live And I still profess that might we but secure our selves and our posterity I am none of those that would have the least injury much less cruelty exercised upon any man for being a Papist If they will live peaceably with me or but give me leave I will live peaceably with them And I doubt not but as there are some among them truly fearing God though corrupt with the errours of their education so there are more that are of kind and civil