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A85944 Katadynastēs: might overcoming right. Or a cleer answer to M. John Goodwin's Might and right well met. Wherein is cleared, that the action of the Army in secluding many Parliament men from the place of their discharge of trust, and the imprisoning of some of them, is neither defensible by the rules of solid reason, nor religion. / By John Geree M.A. and pastour of Faith's under Pauls in London. Published by authority. Geree, John, 1601?-1649. 1649 (1649) Wing G598; Thomason E538_24; ESTC R18662 36,380 49

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indignisint qui eo sunt evecti By that name of powers they are tropidully understood which are lac●d in those dignities that we ●ay know this subjection is to be given to the Powers though they are unworthy that are advanc'd to them Besides all that can be hinted in the name of Powers so often used is but according to the distinction between the will Authority of the Magistrate for conscience sake further then it is cloathed with Power that is legally and that is plainly the inraning of Pareus cited by you He names Powers rather then Kings and Princes for in the persons vices 〈◊〉 causes of disobedience are found therefore he would have the Powers different from the persons That is their corruptions will put them on to seek to have their will a Law their Power extends no farther then Law nor further are wee bound to obey But what need we stand upon this terme any longer sith S. Peter expresly mentioneth the persons both of the King as Supreame and all that are in Authoty under him Therefore Mr Goodw. without just ground Limits the subjection to Magistrates only while they act regularly and with a single eye on procurement of Good Though I doubt not but our Parliament men feised for endeavouring agreement with King were both regular in their way and aimes I may conclude therefore for all Mr Goodwins sleek Apology the Armies forcible Act upon the Parliament stands convict of grievous guilt and yet we see the old adage ●●ue Durum telum necessitas for behold that Army that hath so often prevailed against the sharped weapons of their Enemies fallen and expiring in their honours vanquisht by this one poore dart of pre●ended necessity And yet this Act of theirs that is so unwarrantable in it selfe is made much more abominable by the intention of it which the issue discovers for its evident it was to make a Party to proceed to the deposition and destruction of the King if God prevent them not A thing directly contrary to their sworn Allegeance to the Doctrine of the Church of England to which they are also engaged by Protestation to the constant Profession of the Parliament in generall their partakers in their Apologeticall Declarations and * Amongst wh●●● Mister 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in his Anti cavalierisme hath spo 〈◊〉 as plain and sensibly as any That it is a just Prerogative of Persons of Kings to be secure from the violence of men in what causes soever and their lives to be as consecrated corn meet to bee reaped and gathered onely by the hand of God himselfe with other words which may be seen 〈…〉 sent unto him by a learned godly and ●orthy Knight Sir ●ra Nethe●sole Books whereby they engaged many people in their quarrell who will now detest the present Act the more because they have been made somewhat to contribute to it by the former hypocrifie and present treachery of others And this also heightens the injury of the Armies Act that they should exclude the Trustees of so many Shieres Cities and Burroughes when a thing of so great a concernment to them as the life of their King is to come in question is this justice If their Trustees be degenerate should they not have leave and time to have chosen other before such a matter had been taken in hand For that of Aquinas you cited to no purpose pag. 15. will not take place here neither for you confesse their choyce was good but the men are degenerate I may therefore conclude little reason had Mr Goodwin to conclude his Book with such hyperbolicall that I say not blasphemous flattery as to compare so sinfull an Act of the Army to the sufferings of Jesus Christ to save a lost world c. But the conclusion sutes with the premises both Popish for its the manner of Papists to extoll their assassinates so they doe it with a good intent adificandicausa and in case of necessity to save the lives or prevent the ruines of many Catholiks And I now seriously propose it to Mr Goodwin and his Associates Whether the nec●ssity harpt upon be any other then danger to a sort of people in the land that out of pretended new Light would live exempt from the ordinary and received rules of Government Danger I say to such lest they should meet with trouble loose those preferments and that Ruledome that they draw and many times usurpt to themselves in Parliament City Countrey by the Power of the sword intrusted to more Publike ends If this be the necessity as there be hints many that it is How much more suteable were it for men of conscience not to disturb the Treaty for Peace but interpose in it for their own Interest And if they think exemption from the coercieve Power of the civill sword in matters of Religion be a native Liberty of Christians Let them desire it may be debated freely before a free Parliament and if we convince not the impiety and iniquity of it let them carry it If they fall short in that yet whatever indulgence may bee consistent with duty to Truth and the peace of the Church will never be denyed them Oh! did any relenting appeare to procure return from those irregular wayes how would all godly hearts imbrace them with joy looking on them in their irregularities past as men under a strong tentation and with consideration that they also may be tempted But if they bee resolved that what they have usurpt they will hold I hope I shall no● I am sure I need not envie their slippery places for when they have done Gods whole work on those under their oppr●ssive power I am confident God will visit the fruit of the great hearts of this aspiring Faction and the glory of their high looks DEO GLORIA FINIS
the patterne of the wisest and best professors of 〈◊〉 they are sober c. The Parliament in according with the King upon his Concessions walke sutable to the Religion they professe and follow the patterne of the wisest and best professors of it therefor they are sober c. The Maior is evident and the Minor is cleare if there be any difference it is from the Parliaments holding up the King too high and not in stooping too low For no Religion is more for not onely accepting but exalting Governours in legall waies then the religion of Protestants in matter of Loyalty even in case of difference of Religion alwaies condemning the Jesuiticall Doctrine of deposing or destroying Princes And for the practise of the best Protestants you shall heare Iunius Brutus in his Vindiciae contra Tyranos a Book that is Scandalous even to many Protestants for the great liberty he gives against Princes yet in this case thus he speakes p. 47. Cum his quoties cunque optaris praesto est pax desine caedere cedunt Desine deum oppugnare desinent propugnare Arma si velis iis è manibus encutere satis est modo ne percutias A Prince saith he may have pe ace with protestant Subjects when he will let him leave beating them they yeeld to him let him leave opposing God they will leave their forcible defence If you would disarne them it s enough that you strike them not and a little after Principi portas urbis claudunt ubi res●p●erit ad se redierit impertata facere parati They shut the gat●s of the City against the Prince assoone as he shall repent and come to himselfe they are ready to doe his Commands A little after no strovero etiam tempore menivimus eos qui pro vera religione adversus impietatem in Germania Galliaque pugnarant quotiescunque dei pure colendi potestas facta est arma ultro deposuisse Also we remember that those in our time have fought for true Religion against impiety either in Germany or France as often as they had liberty given to serve God purely lay downe Armes And his conclusion is very remarkeable Ejusmodi ergo signis possient hi a defectoribus facile distingui Therefore by such like signes those that maintaine legall liberties against Tyranny by the Sword may be easily distinguisht from Rebels or apostate Subjects And thus it is cleared that the Parliament in indeavouring peace upon the Kings Concessions doe walke after the rules and patterns of Protestants and their Religion Therefore the conclusion stands good that they are sober in their wits and true to trust but then what to thinke of their oppressour● is obvious enough Fourthly and lastly that I may not exceed in ma●ters so cleare Th●se whose worke and trust is to provide for the honour safety peace and pr●sperity of a Nation who proceede in the most probable way to promote the honour safety peace and prosperity of that Nation they are sober in their wits and true to trust But such was the worke and trust of restrained Members and they tooke the most probable way to promote it Therefore they are sober in their right wits and true to trust The Maior is manifest The Minor may be cleare thus Monarchicall Government is the most honourable Government when it is regulated that it degenerate not into tyranny and its an honour to people to be loyall to Governours in good wayes Loyalty is praise-worthy Treachery vile and base Therefore when by the Kings concessions Tyranny is prevented the liberties of the people secured to preserve the Monarch in safety and honour and the people in loyalty is undoubtly the glory of a Nation And this would be as conducible to peace and safety for this would have put a present period to our broyles and set the Parliament in a capacity to preserve peace by their command of the forces by Sea and Land and hereby we should have recovered reverence from friends and become terrible to enemies and what could in reason be the result of all this but great prosperitie and this was the Judgement of the Army but a little above a yeare agoe and this discovered by sundry Declarations and proposals inforc'd with solid reasons and this they pursued a good while till selfe interest ambition or I know not what tentation turned their braines and though they have layed out all their skill in their Remonstrance to shew that the King by peace on his Concessions would have both oportunity and will quickly to make himselfe absolute and so fall upon revenge yet there are fairer probabilities on the other side that he would not if he could or could not if he would let out his spirit in such a destructive way of revenge And that he would not if he could may appeare Because he hath given so ample testimony of deepe wisedome whereby he is able fully to foresee the desperate danger of attempting any such change or revenge Secondly Experience will make him wary The burnt child dreads the fire he hath sufficiently felt the misery acrewing to Princes by the alienation of Subjects And thirdly Which is most moving with me his invincible patience and tranquility of Spirit in his sufferings Noble natures that can beare adversity without fainting can injoy prosperity without revenging revenging most haunts base and cowardly natures But if he would he could not breake out because by these concessions his hands are tyed and by this recommodation the Parlioment would be reinvested in the peoples affections and any attempt of breach on the Kings part would cary so much ill in the face of it that the whole Nation would be ready to rise up and plucke in pieces whosoever should be supposed to be either Counsellors or Actors in such a breach of faith And the Militia being in the Parliaments hands such incendiaries might bs easily crusht I might adde the Kings carriage in his concessions where his owne honour or externall rights was concerned most facile but where his conscience was interested tenacious to the greatest adventure what found reason can be given why the King should be so resolute in the matters of his conscience but that he meanes to keepe what he granted And therefore would not grant now what conscience hereafter might inforce him to breake as being against conscience and see the ingagement to it sinfull and null But suppose the danger in peace on these concessions be more then I apprehend yet if the danger of deposing or destroying be greater ●nd more unavoydable It is not madnesse but sobriety to chuse the suffer way wherein if we fall we shall fall with inward peace and honour having discharged our consciences in reference to our Oathes and professions and to decline another way more dangerous wherin if we fall our fall will be more foule and uncomfortable Now let the danger of deposition or destroying the King be weighed in the ballance either of experience or reason and I
doubt not but it will waigh downe the danger of commodation on such concessions for that the Prince of Wales should come in and submit himselfe to the deposers or destroyers of his Father is not imaginabl What cause and minde to revenge he will have any man that hath a Father to who● he is not onely linkt in nature but associated in cause may easily apprehend And his opportunities are as Evident What potent Prince will not seeke his affinity having a just and cleare title to such three Kingdomes And what a partly is he like to have at home The whole Peerage of England distast rigour against the person of the King and I thinke three parts of foure in the House of Commons are in their minde The Generality of the people of the Land detest it The Ministry that have not beene thought altogether inconsiderable stand amazed at it as most dishonourable to Religion nor are the affections of Scotland dubious in this point nor is all faire weather in Ireland The party that had enough to doe to grapple with the King when United is now divided Peace in Germany will afford plenty of Mercenaries What greater probability was there ever for any Prince either to attempt or atcheive revenge And by the same meanes be in condition to make his owne tearmes with his people And if he should faile in his attempts at first yet how endlessely they will be renewed till the Kingdome be setled on his right basis is as cleare as the Sun in our experience After the deposition of Richard the second and setting up Henry the fourth of the younger House There was no settlement betweene the House of Yorke and Lancaster for above fourscore yeares but ever and anon bloody Wars to the inestimable damage of this poore Kingdome neither was there any hope of setled Peace till their titles were United by the marriage of Henry the seventh of the House of Lancaster with the Heyresse of the House of Yorke And thus I hope I have cleared it that the Army was not oney destitute of any warrantable call but also of all just occasions so to oppresse the Members of Parliament for proceeding to settle the Kingdome by treaty for its evident they therein acted wisely soberly faithfully and suteable to their former professions and sacred ingagements CHAP. 2. Sect. 1. Now Mr. Goodwin proceedes to a second objection from the Armies resisting lawfull authority or the powers set over them and therein the Ordinance of God View the argument in its full proportion and I doubt not but it will be sound Herculean THey that resist lawfull powers who they acknowledge lawfully set overthem and to whom these should be subject for conscience sake They defile themselves and incur damnation The Army in their late forcible act on the Houses did resist lawfull authority lawfully set over them to whom they o●ght to be subject for conscience sake Therefore the Army by that act did defile themselves and make themselves ly able to damnation The Major is the Apostles Rom. 13.1.2.34 and now let us see how Mr. Goodwin quits him from the Minor He answers That to resist authoritie imports two things A deniall of obedience to the just command of authority pag. 11. But this is not all there is resistance in opposing authority in legall commands whether just or unjust if they be legall they be obligatory to the subject either in regard of doing or patient suffering or else the advice were of little use to those that lived in heathnish Common-wealths and under Emperours none of the best but many times the worst of men But saith he The House had given out no such Commandment that none of their Members should be seazed though Voting never so palpably against their trust But though they have not Voted things in such au absurd way yet have they declared upon occasion of the Kings demand of five of their Members pag. 11 that the arresting of any Member whatsoever without a legall proceeding against them and without the consent of the House whereof such person is a Member is a breach of priviledge of Parliament and the person that shall arrest any such Member of Parliament is declared a publique enemy of the Common-wealth Die Lunae Janu. 17. 1641. And this I hope Mr. Goodwin and the Officers of the Army did not then thinke unreasonable and so into what condition the Army have put themselves by that Declaration is evident But Mr. Goodwin would have no act binding p. 11 unlesse the justice of it may be sufficiently cleared It this must be in the judgement of their opposites which it must be or else it will not serve his turne sure it is a tenent that destroyes all Government Sect. 3. But Secondly He saith resisting imports an ingagement to take away authority but that they did not they declare their approbation and resolution to maintaine authority Parliamentary c. But what more ridiculous or hypocriticall apology can be made then to say they will maintaine authority when it is onely so much and so farre as it will be ruled by and sute their conceipts which is indeed to subdue not to maintaine authority as they pretend But he objects against himselfe p. 12. That if the Army did not in either of his senses resist Authoritie yet they did what was worse offer violence to persons in Authoritie c. He answers It s lawfull by violence to wrest a Sword out of a mad mans hand c. An easie and readie way to de-throne all Authoritie if saying they be mad will serve the turne when they are neither in drinke passion nor under any other symptome of such unnaturall distemper Besides I have proved that the madnesse that is lyes at the doores of their opposites and sure else they would never runne on so confidently as they doe in irregular wayes and yet pretend to so much conscience Sect. 2. He answers p. 13. secondly That the King had as legall an investiture into the power of the Militia of sitting in Parliament c. as also men had in their Parliamentarie trust yet did the Parliament upon a discoverie c. deprive him of this power First what power the King had in the Militia by Law is not within my element to determine But if that Principle layd down by him be true for ought I know it s likelier to draw the Parliament into a communitie in erring then exempt the Army Beside The King did at first leave the Parliament and their chiefe overture of Warre was to bring him to not keep him out of Parliament And that he hath not beene re-admitted e'r now I think he may chiefly thank some of your Party Sect. 4. He answers thirdly As a Client may cast off an Advocate whom he suspects or a Pupill his Guardian c. But first Can a Pupill cast off his Guardian till he be fourteene yeares of age when he is inabled thereto by Law