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A54150 The great question to be considered by the King and this approaching Parliament, briefly proposed, and modestly discussed, (to wit); how far religion is concerned in policy or civil government and policy in religion? ... / by one who desires to give unto Cæsar the things that are Gods. Penn, William, 1644-1718. 1679 (1679) Wing P1300; ESTC R7032 14,393 8

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The Great Question to be Considered by the KING and this approaching PARLIAMENT briefly proposed and modestly discussed To wit How far Religion is concerned in Policy or Civil Government and Policy in Religion With an Essay rightly to distinguish these great Interests upon the Disquisition of which a sufficient Basis is proposed for the firm Settlement of these Nations to the most probable satisfaction of the several Interests and Parties therein By one who desires to Give unto Caesar the things that are Caesars and to God the things that are Gods THat this Nation and the Nations of Scotland and Ireland concerned with it are at present in such a posture and under such circumstances as give just reason both of fear and care more then ordinary both to Rulers and People is so without doubt that it needs no proof and that we are in a dangerous Feaver in regard both to our Civil and Religious Interest all in their wits must know which Disease albeit it be now in the opinion of most come to a Crisis yet few can determine whether it will end in a natural cool or prove a distemper yet more dangerous and deadly And truly at this time we are so far happy that though the Evil be great which threatneth us yet the Cause thereof is very manifest so that we are not put to the disadvantage of an uncertain search in that matter We see all this trouble proceeds from a pretence of Religion and Opinion that men have drank in that for and because of Religion they ought to concern themselves in the Civil Government of the Nations yea so far as to overturn it if otherwise the advancement of their Religion cannot be procured How much this Opinion albeit managed by men vastly differing as to the Religion they would advance has wrought to the shaking of these Nations few can be ignorant so that it seems high time and no season more opportune then now that this Question were fully decided What is the Interest of Religion in Policy or Civil Government and again of Policy and Civil Government in Religion And how far men upon the account of Religion may and ought to meddle in the Government or with the Governours and again how far the Civil Magistrate as such ought to concern himself in the Consciences of the People that if possible such Principles may be pitched upon agreeable to the nature of Christianity and to the soundest Principles of Government by which men may be possessed with a Faith that Christianity doth not oblige them to meddle in Government and reciprocally that they may be the more quieted in that belief that the Magistrate is not to concern himself in their Consciences so that in this mutual assurance the Magistrate may rule securely and administer Justice to all equally without fearing hurt from the Religion of any of his people and the people may fear God and follow piety according to the best of their knowledge without fearing prejudice from the Magistrate therefore And truly it cannot but be acknowledged that it would be a happy Nation where this were fully fixed and the establishing of such Principles seems the less difficult that in the purest times of Christianity so reputed by all the true Christian Religion was not at all hurtful nor dangerous to the Magistrate though differing from it nor did the Christians judge it any part of their Religion to seek to disturb him in his Government or screw themselves into it and though again they acknowledged his Authority in Civils to be just and lawful yet they claimed an exemption from being imposed upon by him in the exercise of their Consciences so that a re-establishing of those Principles and Practices which were believed and followed by those who on all hands are affirmed to have been the purest Christians and also good and faithful Subjects will do the business But for the more clear understanding of this matter it will be fit to take it a little higher and enquire how those two great Interests of Religion and Civil Government came to be interlaced and mixed together Cain was the first that disturbed Civil Society because of Religion and the Scripture from which alone we may expect it gives no account of any thing like the mixing of these Interests before the Floud and after the Floud the whole tract of the Hebrew History from Heber to Moses for of the particular state of the Jews I shall speak anon 〈◊〉 shew that the matter of Religion was wholly distinct from the outward Policy and Government then used in the World Jacob lived in Laban's Family though differing from them and Joseph among the Egyptians with which Superstitious Nation we cannot suppose he joyned in Worship and yet was both a faithful Friend to Pharoah and considerable Ruler over the People Moreover if the true ground and rise of Government be considered this will more appear for all Lawyers and States men derive the first grounds of Government from the Posterity of Noah's Sons after the Floud and do show how through necessity Reason and the Law of Nature led them thereunto for the Law of Nature giving to every man a natural and paternal Jurisdiction over his own Family when as the increase of Mankind and necessity of Commerce gave occasion for several Families to be concerned together and that these concernments begot Controversies needful to be determined and that every Family stood upon equal foot as to Authority and to decide by Force would prove destructive and not necessarily be just and that it was unfit every man should be Judge in his own cause therefore Reason led them to chuse men of approved Justice and Honesty to whom all differences were remitted and whose decisions served as Laws and were readily submitted to the parties resting in the assurance of their equity and this all Lawyers generally acknowledge was the first foundation of Civil Government in the joynt agreement of several Families from whence arose the Institution of Cities and from their Interest in the Country about the division of Provinces and Kingdoms Now as in the first part of Government in Families the Authority stood in one viz. in the Father of the Family so they usually chose one for the Government of joynt Families who thence were called Kings and this was the Original of Monarchy whom the opinion of Honesty Knowledge and Justice most readily and without fear of Emulation advanced to that dignity whose Judgment and W●ll answering to the cause of their advancement was a Law to the People Afterwards when the respect put upon these Rulers or Kings and the advantage thence accruing increased men began to be ambitious of the Imployment and from thence to use their influence to obtain it from which followed Faction and often Bloudshed which made men fall upon the expedient of letting the Government rest upon the Children of those who formerly had possessed it the Veneration of their Fathers and the supposition and
expectation they might inherit their Fathers Virtues greatly contributing thereto which laid the foundation of Hereditary Monarchy But when the Primitive simplicity and integrity of those first Ages began to wear out and that those Kings did extend and advance the Authority they derived from their Predecessors but lost their Equity and Justice and since the ancient and entire confidence put in the first Rulers had made their Government and consequently their Successors unlimited it depending upon Will and not qualified by any Laws whereof there were not written at that time Thus Monarchy degenerated into Tyranny as appeared in Nimrod and his Successors the Kings of Assyria which gave a rise as many judge to the ●●●●itution of Commonwealths amongst the Grecians and others Now during these times although the number of those that truly feared God and retained any 〈◊〉 of pure Religion were very few and for most part at least so far as is conveyed to us in the Family and Success●●● of Abraham yet that inward and Universal Testimony of a Deity implanted in the hearts of all men as all sorts of Christians acknowledge did so far influence men as to set their thoughts about Religion for as Cicero says Nulla Gens tam Barbara quae Deum aliquem non agnoscat since it is most certain that Justice will gain a Testimony in the hearts of the most barbarous the ancient Veneration and esteem to the great Justice and Equity of those Primitive Rulers being fixed in 〈…〉 and heighned by the depravation of their Successors and this compared with daily 〈◊〉 afforded to men in the course of Providence begot a belief that these things were the Gifts of these Good Kings 〈◊〉 in Heaven from whence they came to be prayed unto and reputed Gods 〈◊〉 And thus those things th●t did seem immediately to convey those 〈…〉 the Sun Moon and Stars came 〈◊〉 to be adored from whence sprung the Religion or divers Nations and thus 〈◊〉 any 〈◊〉 came to receive Power and Domination over others 〈…〉 became more universally to be received Now whereas Religion among the Gentiles had its rise so 〈…〉 hence so every Nation had their p●rticular 〈…〉 among this Roman● 〈…〉 which they were devoted to The 〈…〉 of Religion with 〈…〉 insensibly since all the Gentiles generally esteemed it a duty to worship the Gods of that place and Country they came to as judging they had a sort of distinct and peculiar Jurisdiction there so there was little occasion of observing here a distinct Interest because there was no man to claim the liberty of exercising it so far had blindness and Idolatry overgrown the World In which state things continued for many Ages until Daniel and the Three Children after the carrying a way of the Jews by Nebuchadnezzar gave a rise rightly to distinguish and clear the Marches b●twixt Religion and Policy and claim the liberty of the one without prejudice to the other for this making Religion necessary to Policy took its strength from the unlimited Tyranny of the Assyrian Monarchy and was the fruits of an Arbitrary Power standing and exercised in the superlative degree and it 's observable that where there is most of that sort of Government there this to this day most prevails this being most suitable to meer Tyranny and contrary to a solid and well-ballanced Government for such being the state of the Assyrian Monarchy as all well read therein know the Flatterers of these Kings possessed them with a belief that the Authority of no Power even in matters of Religion was to be acknowledged nor even the Counsel of any Deity sought to above or besides that of the King for they did not build the reason of Obedience upon the intrinsical verity of the thing commanded by the King as those that press the same thing now would seem to do or for shame pretend to do but meerly upon the Will and Command of the Prince whom they think ought not to be disobeyed whatever he commanded whose Will they would have to be the only rule of mens Actions in all things Hence came the fury of Nebuchadnezzar against the Three Children for not obeying him Dan 3. in falling down before his Golden Image and against Daniel for praying with the Windows open towards Jerusalem for neither of them are charged for doing any thing prejudicial to the State and except in this were found faithful Servants to the King in other things wherein they were imployed And as none will readily justifie the Assyrian King in his doings whereof himself greatly repented so the Imployments he bestowed upon those and other Jews and wherein they proved useful and faithful to him doth sufficiently shew that the distinct Interests of Religion and Policy under one Prince may well be found without prejudice either to Prince or People The like may be observed in the case of Ahasuerus who was influenced by Haman to give out an Edict for the destruction of the Jews the reason whereof urged by Haman was that they had Laws different from the Kings Laws and therefore it was not for the Kings profit to suffer them I need not bestow pains to refute Haman's reason since most men will condemn it The same thing took place for the same cause in Nero and the rest of the Emperors who persecuted the Christians for the piety and ancient equity and sobriety of the Romans wearing out and the corruption degeneracy and effeminacy of the Eastern Nations prevailing so as the Emperors would be reputed and adored as Gods thence came their endeavouring to oblige men to acknowledge no God but their Will and Pleasure and no Religion but what depended thereon thence they made Religion a necessary part of Government And thus I have briefly traced things until such time as Christianity came to be established by Law and Christians came to be Magistrates After that Christianity came to be received in the Courts of Princes and that the Emperors became Christians their honest zeal was soon abused by the corruption and covetousness of the Clergy who for their own ends first possess'd them with a belief that they ought to seek to settle and establish Christian Religion by their Force and Power and that it did much contribute to their Spiritual advantage to bestow large Revenues upon the Clergy and that as Supreme Magistrate he had a care and superintendency over the Church in meddling with which the Emperor Constantine found himself quickly not a little embarassed when he could not find a way to satisfie the Clergy when they came to quarrel among themselves and so each Party afterwards in the differences of these Times as they could draw the Emperor to their side made use of this Power of the Magistrate in matters of Religion for the destroying each other until at last by the growing of Superstition and other great shakings which hapned to the Roman Empire the Pope instead of being subject to the Emperor and appointed by him which he was for
several Centuries made a shift to turn him by degrees out of Italy establish to himself a Temporal Jurisdiction in Rome as being forsooth Peters Patrimony and at last not only to be independant from the Emperor but superiour to him as by the tract even of their own Historians is manifest and known to all those who have read the story of Hildebrand and others And thus by the like means several Bishops in Germany and other places abusing the zeal and ignorance of the people came into the possession of great Temporal Jurisdictions and not only so but in all Nations of Europe they obtained a place in the Government and became a distinct State by means of which having an immediate dependance upon the Pope he came to exercise an Universal Monarchy in the Christian World And thus Religion came to be a part of Civil Government among Christians And it is greatly to be regretted that in the Reformation this was not rooted out but in a great measure retained not only by the Lutherans but even by the Calvinists So that although those who follow the Geneva Discipline do pretend to abstract the Clergy from meddling in State yet their method of proceeding proves at last the same for while they lay an obligation upon the Magistrate under pretence of taking care for the Cause and Church of Christ to establish one sort of form of Religion and ruine all others wherein he must steer by the Clergies Compass or otherwise have the people blown up unto a Sedition from the Pulpit So that experience hath proved that under the Government of Presbytery especially as it was improved in Scotland where it came to its height the insolency and imperiousness of the Clergy became no less troublesome and unsupportable to the Magistrates then that of Bishops whether Papal or Protestant so that it is manifest the altering from one form to another hath not cured these Nations of the mischiefs that therethrough has attended them so long as that fundamental Error is entertained of making Religion a part of the Civil Government Now this brief Historical hint doth abundantly shew how these Interests are distinct and ought not be jumbled together To which I shall add these brief Considerations First Because Religion and Policy or Christianity and Magistracy are two distinct things have two different ends and may be fully prosecuted without respect one to the other the one is for the purifying and cleansing the Soul and fitting it for a future state the other is for the maintenance and preserving of Civil Society in order to the outward conveniency and accommodation of men in this World A Magistrate is a true and real Magistrate though not a Christian as well as a man is a true and real Christian without being a Magistrate Christianity far less this or that form of it doth not belong to the being of Magistracy else the Apostles and Primitive Christians could not have acknowledged the Heathens to have been their lawful Magistrates and Superiors as they did and taught their Disciples so to do as appeared in the practice of the Primitive Christians beforementioned Secondly Christ says expresly his Kingdom is not of this World the thing he came for is a business distinct from the external Government of the World and hath no necessary connexion thereto and therefore there doth not appear any one saying of his or his Followers to warrant Magistrates as such to meddle in Religion or to warrant his Disciples and Followers as such to meddle with the outward Government of the Nations And truly the dismal effects this has produced both to the ruine of Christianity and Civil Government may convince those that are not byassed by particular Interest as all Clergy-men both Pope Prelate and Presbyter generally are and love the good and advancement either of Christianity or Civil Government that it is high time to avoid this snare To this the state of the Jews is usually objected whose Religion and Government was mixed together But that saying of Christ abovementioned is thereunto a sufficient Answer for they had an outward Kingdom which Christ came not to establish neither for himself nor Followers and theirs related to a particular Race or Family which is not the case now besides that their outward Policy was by Revelation expresly given them of God who gave them Rulers Judges Kings oftentimes by the particular appointment of his Prophets without respect either to hereditary Right or the choice of the People and unless we would plead for the like thing now which none I know of do I mean of those that strive for the Government there can be nothing rationally urged from the state of the Jews in this matter But some may be apt to say that there is a necessity that Religion and Policy be interlaced because those things are a part of Religion which are of absolute necessity to Government such as the suppressing of Murther Adultery Theft Perjury which surely belongs to the Magistrates to punish To this I answer It is true it belongs to the Magistrate to punish such like crimes but as these things are contrary to the Law of God and such as Religion strikes against so they are injurious to Civil Society and tend to destroy it and therefore come under the Magistrates cognizance in this respect or under this reduplication and not upon the meer Religious account for whatever is destructive or injurious to Civil Society comes to be punished by the Magistrate upon that score without respect to its concern in Christianity as we see these things were punishable by the Magistrates in all well-regulated Kingdoms and Commonwealths among the Heathens where they could not be considered as any part of the Christian Religion Not that I deny where both Magistrate and People are Christian and agreed in the acknowledgment that such things are not only hurtful to Civil Society but destructive to their immortal Souls he may improve that reason to deterr the people from these evils as also to bear home to them the justice of the punishment but this he does not simply as a Magistrate but as a Christian even as such Magistrates among the Heathens as were Philosophers sometimes used to do To this I suppose it may be also readily objected That according to this Principle both Papists Presbyters Anabaptists yea such as were John of L●yden and his Complices may and ought to be tolerated if the Magistrate has nothing to do with the Consciences of his Subjects And again if the Magistrate should become any of these the People ought quietly to bear it To this I answer and indeed herein the excellency of this fundamental Principle both in Religion and Government will appear That Popery hath two parts the one is that which is meerly Religious that is which relates properly to Religion or Conscience and are peculiar to them such as the believing Transubstantiation Purgatory Adoration of Saints and Images yea and the Superiority of the
and Good Government among men may be established and that none under whatsoever pretence may plead Immunity from subjection to the Laws in such things that come properly and unquestionably under the Civil Magistrates cognizance so that he may be an encouragment to those that do well and a terror to evil doers that good and wholesom Laws may be made by those to whom it is proper so to do for establishing the Rights and Properties of men as men and for encouraging Sobriety and this is proper for the Magistrate But what will become of Holy Church will some say She will be where she was for the Magistrate withdrawing his hand leaving every profession and way to stand upon its own legs Unchurches neither Papists Episcopalians nor Presbyterians they are a Church still if they were so before But saith the Bishops and Hierarchy What shall become of us if the Magistrate withdraw his hand where shall we have Maintenance where shall we have a place to Preach in Ye shall have no less advantage or ground to stand in then those that relate to other people that account themselves to have Ministers and to be Churches yea this advantage you have above all them that you have had 18 or 19 years Places and Benefices so you may the better hear the want till you try the benevolence of your People which is all the rest will have as well as you so you will all stand on an equal foot and it 's fit they should for the publick Preaching places and the publick Maintenance hath been the Bone of Contention in these Nations and will be found to stand upon the same foot with Abbeys and Nunneries and Church-Lands The intent originally was honest and good and from ●●al As the one 〈◊〉 time of Reformation and for publick necessity and conveniency was removed and utterly abolished as to the use they were first intended for so may these and so must these if ever the Nation see a firm and thorough settlement the Church-Lands a suitable case given to the Tenants applied to the Revenue of the Crown and annexed thereto for ever inviolably I mean Bishop Chapte● and Dean-Lands and such as have been accounted in the right and possession of the present Churches respectively The Tithes have been a great oppression upon the people of these Nations and would be absolutely extinguish'd both as to name and thing so as there may be no footsteps of them and that no man whatsoever that is a Proprietor in Land may be lyable to have another to have an Interest in his Tithe which hath been a great bondage and servitude and had its Interest upon the account that they belong'd to Holy Church and was their Patrimony Now things being settled upon another foundation and turned quite in another Channel by the prudence and care of those to whom it be●●●gs properly so to do with a suitable regard every way that the c●nscientiously tender Christian ●ho ha●● suffered daily upon this account and the Rights of men as men may be answered and 〈◊〉 way and expedient found out to give some competent satisfaction suitable to the Rights and Possessions of Impropriators so as henceforward the Stock and Tithe may b● so confounded and involved that whoever hath the Property of Possession of Lands may never be lyable to any such bondage more or less by these accessions of the Bishops and other Church-Lands not already disposed o● into the possession of the Laity so called there shall be a considerable addition of Revenue to the Crown and hereby the Body of ●●e people of those Nations will be gratified in removing the great oppression and servitude of Tithes the cause of Contention will be removed and every sort and size of people will stand upon their own legs all unreasonable expectations of setting up one sort of men and throwing down all the rest will be out all fears and jealousies and animosities upon this account will cease and hereby that which hath been a standing fear and jealousie upon the people of these Nations will be plucked up by the Roots If it be said What shall become of the Magistrate or Magistrates things being thus settled Where were the hazard for were it not unreasonable that the Magistrate or Magistrates should be in worse case then the People who are to be left to their absolute liberty as to the matter of Religion without being lyable to any Civil inconveniency or abridg'd of any priviledge upon the account of this or that form of Religion meerly as such then why not the Magistrate It being fundamentally settled as it would be and is needful it should be that except in his or their Family as Chap●ain and that in a temporary way it should not be in the power of the Magistrate or Magistrates to make any standing Maintenance or settlement upon any sort of men in Orders or to set them up or countenance them further then by his or their being of their perswasion or allowing them on such account entertainment as Chaplain● and that for clearing the people of these Nations of the aforementioned Seeds of Jealousie it be fundamentally settled as a Magna Charta for ever that whosoever in the Magistracy or any other from the least to the greatest shall be found to alter or innovate this Fundamental settlement shall be lyable to be judged by this Law as guilty of Tre●son against the Fundamentals of the Government for the Law only is and is to be declared Supreme and that whoever either separately or in conjunction shall go against this Basis or Fundamental settlement were it a single person or the Parliament shall ceas● to be Magistrate or a Parliament and their Decrees become void and null for the ●●ndame●tals are never to be altered viz. that the Magistrate as Magistrate is to be wholly shu● but as to all meddling in matters of Religion but every man as to the Magistrates interposition 〈◊〉 be left free and that all men as men born freemen not having fo●f●i●ed their Liberty by doing those things which makes them obnoxious shall be secure in their Persons and ●●dates from all Arbitrary proceedings which will truly be for the ho●●ur and greatn●ss of the Magistrate or Magistrates and safety of the People These things being writ by one that hates to be Dogmatical are therefore only modestly proposed and humbly submitted to those of more mature Judgment and greater Experience especially to the New appro●ching Parliament by him who in truth can subscribe himself Philo-Britannicus