Corn and Hay are all destroyed and the bloody War that is yet like to follow before the end I say do you think that all these are not a dear price to be paid for hindering men to Worship God only according to the Scripture Would leave to serve God only as Christ and his Apostles appointed and did themselves have cost the Emperour and People dearer than all this amounteth to 5. And the World knoweth that as Cromwel got his strength and usurpation in England by his Liberty of Conscience so the Turks won Constantinople and the Eastern Empire much by this For when their Emperours were become dissolute or cruel killing and deposing one another putting out their eyes and thrusting them into Monasteries forced Saints and when ambitious ungodly Bishops were still striving for superiority and persecuting Dissenters as not Orthodox and mutinous Souldiers pulling down Emperours and setting up others the poor Christians thought that to defend such a Government against the Turks that gave all men the Liberty of their own Religion would cost them dearer than it was worth and so were the more remiss in their resistance and the easilier yielded to the Conquerours Whereas had the Turks done as the Papists who make our extermination by our own Rulers a very part of their Religion the Greeks would have more resolutely resisted them in necessary self-defence And did not the Turks still give Liberty to Christians only restraining them from speaking against Mahometism do you think that the Greeks in all their Dominions would no more strive for their deliverance And that Transilvania Hungary Walachia Maldavia Croates and Cossacks Armenians Georgians Circassians Mengrelians Nestorians and Iacobites in so vast numbers would live so long quietly and patiently under them as they do All the great Conquerours of the World that are famous in History ever observed that sober policy to let Conquered Provinces enjoy their own Religion and mostly their own ancient Laws and inferiour Magistrates And then the People find the change so tolerable in the Supremacy as they the more easily yield with less resistance and continue their subjection with the greater quietness and peace The Iews in Christ's time and till they rebelled afterwards under Vespasian Titus and Adrian had so much of their own Religion and Law allowed them as was no small cause of their Crucifying Christ lest the name of a King sent from God such as they expected the Messiah to be should draw the People to such Insurrections as should provoke the Romans to deprive them of their Temples Religion and Laws and to destroy their place and nation And I hear by travellers that where the Turks yet allow their Provinces as in Transilvania their own Magistrates and Laws Religion prospereth almost as well as under Christian Sovereigns and far better than under the extirpating zeal or rather fury of persecuting Papist Princes I desire you therefore before you plead experience for your desolating way of Concord to study History better and be better informed of the case of the World. When I think but what men Bishop Wilkins and Judge Hale were that on my knowledge drew up an Act for the total cure of our English Church differences to which those called to it by the Lord Keeper Bridgman did on both sides consent I have thought it some defect of humility in some Clergy-men that took themselves to be so much wiser than these rare and excellent men as to judge that all our distractions sufferings and dangers by divisions are not so bad as the effect of these mens counsil would have been But I do with greater confidence ask you Whether those men seem to be serious and understanding Christians who think all the bloody Wars and tormenting Inquisition and the destruction of Love and Justice and good Works which are caused by Church-divisions in the World to be a less Mischief than it would be to ENDVRE CHRISTIANS TO SERVE GOD IVST AS CHRIST PRESCRIBED BY HIMSELF AND HIS APOSTLES AND TO VNITE ON THE TERMS ONLY WHICH HE AND THEY DID ORDAIN AND PRACTISE Shall we tell Turks and Heathens that it is no Wiser a Saviour that we trust in and no Wiser a Heavenly King that we obey And no Wiser Law and Gospel that He hath left us And is it any wonder then if they scorn both Him and us L. You are too hard for me I will talk with you no more M. It is Truth and Light that is too hard for you and woe to the foolish Enemies that are too hard for it and overcome themselves and their own happiness and hopes in overcoming it And woe to the World to Churches and Nations where such prevail L. But I advise you that you never think that all your Truth and Reason will do any great good on those that are against you For you cannot have while to say all this to many that you have said to me and if you should Print all this the contrary minded will scarcely Read the Title page or Contents but scorn it before they know what you have said and if they read it it will be all the way with a militant spirit of prejudice and hatred and only study what to say against it and Ignorance Passion Interest and Prejudice will answer all with Rage and confidence and only conclude that the Author is a Fool or Rogue or Rebel and it 's like enough answer you with an Excommunication or Iail where among Malefactors you shall lie and die If you speak for and not against their prâ—conceived Opinion and Interest they will hâ—ar you but if you speak agaiâ—st any of their worldly Wealth or Honour or Grandeâ—r you may almost as hopefully dispute an hungry Dog from his Carrion and you must not wonder if they snarl or fly upon you and tear you And though I confess that all your Proposals seem very consistent with your Aâ—tagonists wealth and greatness yet remember the truth of Seneca's words That Men that have a sore do not only start and complain when they are toucht but even when they think that they are toucht though it be not so There is no expectation of justice from suspicious Jealousie much less if it be animated by Interest and Malice M. My expectations are not much higher than your description But when my own life is so constantly a painful burden and I am so near the Grave I am utterly unexcusable if I think so short and painful a life too good to sacrifice by way of Obedience to the will of God who hath long and wonderfully preserved it and if I do not live and die with St. Paul's resolution Acts 20. 23 24. Bonds and Afflictions abide me but none of these things move me neither count I my life dear unto my self so that I might finish my Course with Ioy aâ—d the Ministry which I have received of the Lord Iesus to testifie the Gospel of the Grace of God. And indeed if all our bad Laws and Ceremonies
that the Form and Manner of Making and Consecrating Bishops Priests or Deacons containeth any thing in it that is repugnant to the word of God. Though it assert that the Bishops and Priests are distinct Orders which even in K. Aelfrick's days the Church of England denyed XXV We must publish them Excommunicate who affirm that the Nonconformists may truly take the name of another Church c. and that any assemblies of Subjects not allowed by Law are true and Lawful Churches XXVI No Minister must wittingly administer the Sacrament to any but such as Kneel nor to any of the foresaid depravers of the Liturgy Ceremonies Orders of the Church c. Can. 27. XXVII None of other Parishes are often to be admitted to Communion XXVIII All Ministers that repent of Conforming must be suspended excommunicate and deposed at last Can. 38. XXIX We must give the Sacrament to none that go for it from unpreaching Ministers but must send them home Can. 57. Nor must Baptize their Children XXX Ministers must not be suffered that wear not the Surplice Can. 58. XXXI No Minister must refuse or delay to Christen any Child that 's brought to the Church to him on Sundays or Holydays to be Christened without exception of Atheists or Infidels Children Can. 68. XXXII No Minister may keep any Fast in publick or at private Houses or be present at any on what necessity soever without the Bishops License for it under Hand and Seal or the Laws appointment XXXIII We must if commanded publish all Excommunicate that affirm that the Sacred Synod is not the true Church of England by representation or that deprave it as a faction c. XXXIV No man was to be ordained or suffered in the Ministry for twenty years that did not subscribe thus I do declare that I do hold that there lies no obligation on me or on any other person from the Oath commonly called the Solemn League and Covenant to endeavour any change or alteration of Government in Church or State. XXXV All Nonconformists must swear that they will never endeavour any alteration of the Church Government or else be banished five miles from Corporations and all places where ever they preached since the Act of Oblivion XXXVI All Ministers must subscribe and Nonconformists swear that they abhor the Trayterous position of taking Arms by the Kings Authority against those that are Commissioned by him XXXVII We must assent and consent to the damnatory sentence in the Creed called Athanasius's XXXVIII Every Minister consenteth to say the Morning and Evening Service every day in the year not being lett by sickness or other urgent cause XXXIX Ministers must concur to force the unwilling Parishioners to the Sacrament or else to Excommunicate and ruine them XL. If we dare not Conform for fear of sin we must forsake our Ministry to which we are Ordained and Vowed and give over Preaching the Gospel what ever need there be and must also remove our dwelling from all places aforesaid These are the parts of Ministers Conformity Lay Mens Conformity is as followeth I. They must trust their Souls with the Pastoral oversight of those and only those as their fixed Pastors whom Patrons will choose for them and Bishops institute Though the Conformists accuse many Patrons of such hainous sins as speaketh them unfit for so strange a trust besides those that are Papists and Bishops say they have not power to keep out the unfit II. They are not only hereby deprived of the exercise of Self-Government for the saving of their own Souls but of due Family Government for the safety of Wife and Children and Servants and must not bid them choose better Pastors III. They are forced to forbear Communion with all Nonconformists and to separate from all others besides Conformists though they account this Schismatical separation IV. When God commandeth them If thy Brother trespass against thee tell him his fault between thee and him if he hear not tell the Church c. And with Drunkards Railers Fornicators c. not to eat They are forced to have Communion with Parishes where no such Discipline is exercised nor can they perform any such duty and to lose all the benefit of this Christian Order and Discipline none being so much cast out as Conscionable Dissenters V. Conscionable care to obey Gods Law is greatly discouraged and made a dangerous thing while it must be mens utter ruine to deny Conformity even in a Ceremony to men when it 's done for fear of sinning against God. VI. They are to be deprived of Baptism and Christendom for their Children if they dare not use the foresaid way of God-Fathers as described VII They are also to be unchristened if thinking our Crossing is used as an unlawful Humane Sacrament they dare not receive it as a dedicating Badge of Christianity VIII If they think Kneeling at receiving the Sacrament an unlawful hardening the Papists they are denyed Communion IX If any dissent but from Confirmation Organs Kneeling at the Rails taking a Reader or unfit man for their Pastor they must not be received to Communion by a Conformist in another Parish X. All the Land is engaged Ministers Vestries Corporations and Militia by Oaths or Covenant never to endeavour any alteration of Government in the Church XI They are all engaged to abhor the position as trayterous of taking Armes by the Kings Authority against any Commissioned by him in pursuit of such Commission XII All Corporation Government and Trust is confined to them that declare that there is no obligation on them or any other from the solemn Covenant or Vow not excepting so much as to oppose Schism Popery or Prophaneness to defend the King or repent of sin though these be Vowed I have now told you what Conformity is in Ministers and People CHAP. V. I. Of Re-Ordination L. YOV have named a great number But I doubt whether all these are imposed and in many of them I see no harm M. I told you that if any one of them imposed be sinful Nonconformity is a duty which all the Ministers in England were bound to L. What sin can you find in Re-Ordination M. I must first state the Controversie before I argue it 1. The word Ordination may signifie either the first Dedication and Ordination to the Ministerial Office as such by which a man is separated from the Laity to Gods Ministry Or else a Mission on some particular Ministerial work as Paul and Barnabas were sent abroad Acts 11. Or a Minister may be sent to America c. Or else a fixed appointment to some one particular Church or Flock which is done here by Presentation Institution and Induction It is neither of the two last that we speak against They may be often done But it s only the first 2. The word Ordination may signifie 1. That Moral action by which a man is made a Minister of Christ which is his solemn Contract with Christ exprest by his Consent and by
be not bound to approve every Law he is bound in the main to execute them in his place And if he know that the Imposers of his Oath did mean that he should in a special manner execute e. g. the Laws against Protestants he should not take that Oath contrary to their sence Our Canons make these things forementioned their principal part as you may see by putting them first with that strange penalty of Excommunication ipso facto And indeed it is no small part of the whole Book that we dissent from II. But moreover we dare not promise or swear Obedience to our Ordinaries till we know that Lay-men governing by the Keys are not those Ordinaries I have consulted Lawyers and some say that only the Bishop is meant by our Ordinary But I think they are but few that say so And indeed we are bound to believe the contrary because terms of Art or Science are to be understood according to the use of the men of that Art or Science But men of that profession commonly call other Judges of their Courts our Ordinaries besides the Bishops So doth R. Cousins in his Tables and others 2. And other Governing Ministers whom we must obey are mentioned in the Ordination Covenant also besides our Ordinaries Our Reasons against this are these 1. It is unlawful to confederate with Sacrilegious Prophaâ—ers of a great Ordinance of God in stablishing and practising that Sacrilegious Prophanation But to Covenant or Swear Obedience to Lay-men in usurping the power of the Keys of Decretive Excommunication and Absolution we fear is such and as to the Minor the reason of our fear is if it be Sacrilegious prophanation for a Lay-man to usurp the other parts of the Pastoral Office then it is so for him to usurp the power of the Keyes But the Antecedent is confest as to the Sacraments and the charge of ordinary Teaching and Guidance of the Flocks c. 2. Ad hominem If the Bishops take it for Usurpation in Presbyters to exercise this power supposing it proper to themselves they must judge it much more so in Lay-men L. The Lay-men do it by the Bishops Authority and in his Name and so he doth it by them His Name is to the Excommunications M. 1. The Chancellors have their Commissions from the King which the Bishops cannot alter 2. If it be so it is the worse 1. That the Bishops name should be abused to a Sentence when he never heard or tryed the Cause If this be against the Bishops Will it is a forgery if he consent it seems he trusteth his Conscience in the Chancellors hands and Excommunicateth all at a venture that the Chancellor Excommunicateth though he know not whom nor why which is against the Light of Nature and the common Justice of the World. 2. And it is contrary to the nature of the Pastoral Office to execute it by men of another Calling Either it is proper to Bishops or not if not Presbyters or Lay-men may use it if yea then none may be deputed to use it that are not Bishops If the Keys and not the Sacraments may be used by Lay-men then the use of the Keys is not proper to Pastors but only Sacraments But no man can give a just reason why Lay-men may not give the Sacraments as well as use the Keys Yea indeed the Sacramental administration cannot be proper to the Pastoral Office if the Keys be not For the â—se of the Keys is to Judge who shall be admitted to Sacramental communion and if only Delivering and not Iudging to whom be proper to the Pastor then he is but a carrier or cryer and Executioner of Lay-mens Judgment perhaps lower than the Deacon Barely to say over the words and do the action is but an outward Ministration and no act of Power at all L. But it is not the Chancellor but the Surrogate that Excommunicateth M. 1. Ask those that have been much among them how oft they have heard a Lay-Civilian say at once I admonish you I admonish you I admonish you I excommunicate you 2. Hypocrisie is but an aggravation of Sin The Lay-man decreeth the Excommunication which is the judicial act when they use a Surrogate Priest it is but as a hireling Servant to pronounce the Decree to mock the Church with a Formality 3. If indeed it be the Priest that Excommunicateth and Absolveth when no Bishop is there then they confess that the power of the Keys is not proper to a Bishop but may be validly used by a Priest. L. But what have you against swearing Obedience to the Bishops themselves supposing the Canons were materially Lawful M. III. We have nothing against a peaceable submission to them if they were proved all Usurpers For my part when I think how the High Priests were made out of a wrong line by Roman power and purchase c. in Christs time and how much he was for submission to them and a use of all that was good and lawful done by those bad unlawful intruders it resolveth me to regard bare Possession so far as our own edification and the common peace requireth But as Christ was a Nonconformist to the Pharisees vain Traditions so he was so far from swearing Obedience to these Usurpers that he oft plainly and vehemently reproveth them Many for the bonum publicum which is Suprema Lex and finis regiminis did live in quiet submission to the Usurpers of civil power here who yet would never have sworne obedience to them or justified their Usurpation That the frame of Diocesans as the only Bishops is unlawful tota specie I have so largely proved in my Treatise of Episcopacy that I must not here repeat it as long as the Diocesan party by not answering it seem to grant it I have proved 1. That this Diocesan Species destroyeth the old Species of particular Churches turning the Parishes into no Churches but parts of a Diocesan Church while they make a Bishop essential to a Church 2. That they set up a false Species instead of it viz. A Church infimae speciei which hath many score Parishes if not many hundred in it without any under-Bishop to them 3. That it deposeth the old species of Bishops and Presbyters both which were to every Church of the lowest species a Bishop with his Presbyters ejusdem ordinis if they could be had so that many score or hundred Bishops are put down on pretense of setting up Episcopacy 4. And they set up both Bishop and Presbyters of a humane unlawful sort instead of those deposed viz. Arch-bishop infimi ordinis over a thousand or hundred Carcasses of Churches and half Presbyters that have not the power of the Keys nor are of the same Order with the Bishops 5. That they deposed Christs true Church Discipline and made it as impossible as for one School-master alone to govern all the Schools in a Diocess or one Physician many hundred Hospitals or one Mayor many Hundred Corporations without
Plea for Peace declared my Political Principles which after all thoughts I stand to And no one hath given me a word of Exceptions against them to this day after so many years but some in meer Malice tell me of my Aphorisms revok't without taking notice of this I here repeat that I am ready to engage to the utmost that I renounce all Rebellion Treason and Sedition and all Principles tending thereto that I am for as much Power of Princes and Obedience of Subjects as any Text of Scripture speaks for or as is given or asserted by any General Council or the Confession of any Christian Church that I have seen except what is ascribed to the Pope and his Substitutes And I hold it unlawful to take Arms at all against the King that is against either his Authority Person Rights or Prerogative or against any lawfully Commissioned by him yea or unlawfully except in such Cases as God's Law of Nature or the King himself by Law or contrary Command shall bind Men to resist L. And so you will suppose that God's Law of Nature bindeth you in some Cases to resist And will not all Rebels plead that Law M. Dare you say that there is no such Case King Iames writeth that a King may not make War against his whole Kingdom If Ten Irishmen pretend a Commission to Kill all the Parliament and Protestants in the Land or to seize on the King's Garisons or if King Iohn give his Kingdom to the Pope ask Hooker Filson or Parliaments what the Law of Nature saith to these Cases Chap. XL. Point XXXVII Of Assenting and Consenting to the Damnatory Clauses of Athanasius's Creed L. I Hope you will not quarrel with the Creed M. I take the Creed called Athanasius's tho' the Author is unknown to be an excellent Explication of the Doctrine of the Trinity And could wish that it were more used and learnt of all But I am not so far to judge other Men as to conclude all Men certainly damned for ever that are not so well skilled in that Mystery as to believe every word there written L. I have heard Learned Men say That the Assent and Consent is not to be extended to the Damnatory Clauses but only the Doctrinal Articles M. They that can make Laws and Oaths speak or mean what they list need not stick at any thing Is not the Damnatory part a part of the Book of Common-Prayer and contained in it L. But they prove thus that it meaneth no such Consent or Approbation The Liturgy requireth you to read the Apocrypha and yet not to believe all things in it to be true For say they divers things in Tobit are evidently false And so tho' it bind you to use and read Athanasius's Creed it binds you not to believe all in it to be true M. This Cheat is too gross to deceive a School-Boy with Is Athanasius's Creed a real part of the Common-Prayer Book contain'd in it or not L. Yes no doubt we there find it both contained and prescribed Verbatim M. Is the Apocrypha any part of the Common-Prayer Book and contained in it or not L. If there be any Sentences out of it there inserted those are part else the Apocrypha is no part of the Book It is only the Order to read it that is a part M. Is not this a palpable Deceit to argue that we are not bound to Assent and Consent to that which is contained in the Book because we are not so bound to that which is not contained in it Chap XLI Point XXXVIII Of Saying Common-Prayer twice a day every day in the Year ordinarily L. IT is but that you shall every day say the Morning and Evening Service not being lett by Sickness or other urgent Cause And what have you against this M. I think when the Book was made to help the ignorant Vulgar out of Popery every day to use the Common-Prayer was a very good help to them But the Case is much altered and People now have more suitable Helps and Ministers have so much other Work to do in their Studies and with their Neighbours every day and some Prayers to use more suitable to their Families and Closets that it must needs be a sinful Impediment against other Duties to say Common-Prayer twice a day If they were commanded to Preach twice a day every day in the year it would cause a sinful Omission of other Duties how good soever Preaching be in it self L. But then you have urgent Cause of forbearance M. We are not for abusive dallying with Covenants about Sacred things It is evident by the instance of Sickness that the Authors of the Imposition meant only extraordinary Causes as urgent and not that we should take our ordinary Work for such an urgent Cause As if a Man that is bound to spend most of the day in his Shop should Covenant to go Thirty Miles every day if he be not lett by urgent Cause L. But you see that almost no Conformists do thus therefore it 's certain that they do not so understand it M. That 's a warning to take heed of promising that which we see so many that promised it not perform They are our Monitors to take heed of such a playing with Sacred Covenants and deceiving the Law instead of obeying it Chap. XLII Point XXXIX Of forcing the unwilling Parishioners to the Sacrament and Accusing and Excommunicating the Refusers L. HOw are you bound to this by Conformity M. 1. We must assent and consent to the Rubrick which commandeth That every Parishioner shall Communicate three times a year at least 2. The Oath of Canonical Obedience binds us to obey the 112 Canon as well as the rest which saith The Minister Churchwardens Questmen and Assistants of every Parish-Church and Chappel shall yearly within 40 days after Easter exhibit to the Bishop or his Chancellor the Names and Surnames of All the Parishioners as well Men as Women which being at the Age of 16 years received not the Communion at Easter before And then they are to be Excommunicated if they refuse and to lie in Jail till they die when taken by the Writ De Excommunicato Capiendo L. And why should not men be forced to their Duty and to their own good if they are backward to it M. The internal part is the first and chief part of their Duty without which the external is not their Duty but their great Sin. It is the Duty of Heathens to Believe and be baptized but not to be baptized till they believe It is the Duty of Candidates for the Ministry to get Ability and Ordination and to officiate But not to officiate before they get Ability and Ordination It is the Duty of every Man to believe the Truth of the Gospel and to profess that belief But to say he believeth when he doth not is Hypocrisie and Lying It is a sloathful Man's Duty to rise and dress him and go to his Work but not
during the Iewish Policy command them to use such a Discipline much more in his own Churches L. What are your other Reasons for it M. 2. The very Nature of Christ's Church required it which is a Society separated from the World under special Laws of Holiness and Love and for special heavenly Ends If therefore it shall be confounded with the World and not separated to Christ it is no Church 3. Christ did it for the Honour of himself and his Kingdom If he be no more for Holiness than the Infidel and Heathen World is what is he better than they or how is he a Saviour or what is the Church better than Infidels 4. It is needful to save Heathens from deceit that would come into the Church and to convince them that their impure Communion is insufficient 5. It is needful to save Christians from damning deceit that they may not think that a dead barren unholy Faith and Name of Christianity will save them without a holy obedient Heart and Life 6. It is needful to keep Christ's Ordinances from falsifying Profanation If a sealed Pardon and Gift of Life shall in the Sacraments be given as commonly to Dogs as Children it is a taking God's Name in vain and profane belying Jesus Christ. 7. It is needful to bring Sinners to Repentance that they may be Pardoned and Saved 8. And it is needful to the comforting absolution of Penitents 9. Accordingly God 's Church in all Ages hath owned it as their Law of Christ's institution to this day L. But some learned Men say This was but because there was at first no Christian Magistrate But when there was such the Discipline fell into their hands M. The first Christian Magistrates finding the Church in Possession of it confirmed it and too much accumulated and added to it but took it not away Of this see a small Book which I wrote of the Magistrates Power in Religion to Dr. Lud. Moulin which may end all this dispute Briefly I ask you Qu. 1. Would you have all Infidels and Pagans baptized and Communicate without any Profession of the Christian Religion first L. God forbid That 's a Contradiction M. Shall any words go for a Profession or what must that Profession be L. It must be a Profession of Christian Faith and Obedience M. Who must try and judge of that Profession whether it be Christianity or not Is it Magistrates or Pastors L. Magistrates have somewhat else to do Else they must study and exercise that work alone for they will have no time for Civil Government if they undertake this M. Did not Christ institute an Office for it and give them this Power of the Keyes And if one half that Office cease as soon as Magistrates were Christians why not the other half and so Magistrates must Preach Baptize and celebrate the Sacrament L. It must be no doubt the Ministerial Office to judge who is fit to be in Church Communion Else they were Slaves if they must be forced to take all uncapable Men to their Charge and Communion against their Consciences and Wills No Physician Tutor or School-Master will be forced to take such Patients Pupils or Scholars as will not be ruled by him and will make make him do what they list against his Will. M. You must confess the use of discipline or else openly disown the Word of God the very Being of the Church and the Judgment of the Universal Church to this day And do you think then that to deprive the Church of this is a lawful part of Conformity L. How prove you that the Laity is deprived of it M. 1. In our Great Parishes the People are few of them known to the Priest or to one another Of the two Parishes of my last abode I do not think but there are Fifty Thousand unknown to the Minister and to each other And how can these admonish the Offenders or the Minister exercise this discipline upon unknown Persons 2. The People know that it is in vain to begin where there can be no progress To what purpose is it to tell the Church when it 's sure to do more harm than good 1. The swarm of the Vicious is so great that they cannot be Prosecuted 2. The Minister himself forbeareth it as unpracticable 3. The accused must be Prosecuted at rates which Men cannot bear 4. And before Bishops that cannot possibly do this work to one of a Thousand any more than one School-master can Try and Correct all the faulty Scholars in a Diocess 5. And Men must be Judges that will never call Sinners to Repentance with Ministerial Evidence and Love and Patience but like Secular Courts bid them Recant or be Excommunicate 6. And the Cause must be decided by Lay-men that profanely usurp the Power of the Keys And how is Christ's discipline here possible Polluted common Churches frighten away the Religious conscionable People L. Do you not before complain of too much exercise of Discipline by Excommunications M. Yes of Discipline against Christ It is not enough for your Churches to be common and unclean without true Discipline but when you should drive out the Dogs and Swine you turn out the Children Witness all the fore-mentioned Canons As I said you first force in all the ignorant ungodly multitude that are unfit then these are the strength and major part Then they cannot come under due Discipline then this grieveth Religious People and they find fault with it And then they must be taken for Schismaticks and condemn'd and ruin'd for finding fault In short what need there disputing Is it not notorious matter of fact that this Discipline is not exercised against one Drunkard Swearer Fornicator c. of a multitude and are not Men then deprived of the use of it And when it 's known that they cannot have it in most or many Parishes how are they bound to live and die without the benefit of it L. Do you think Men are bound to separate from all Churches that have not this Discipline Sure it is not Essential to the Church M. I do not think that Preaching as distinct from reading is essential to a Church but that it may be at least for a time a sorry Church without it as those in Moscovy are But I would not continue in such a Church that is without it if I can have a better It 's one thing what a Man should endure that can have no better without more hurt than good and another thing what Men should chuse in obedience to Christ and for their own and the Churches good that can attain it Do you think it is lawful to omit all Duty that is not essential to the Church surely your many humane Offices your Forms and Ceremonies your Declarations and Subscriptions to them are further from being essential than true Discipline is and yet you think that the omission of these is unsufferable Is mans accidental inventions more necessary than Christs Ordinance and Church
That 's his act and not theirs and they cannot hinder him They send their Children to be Baptized and not to be Cross'd M. But we have many Antipadobaptists and converted Iews to be Baptized at Age. 2. And tho' I am much of your mind in this yet all wiser Men are not and the case is very difficult as to Infants If one knew beforehand that the Priest would use Oil and Spittle and Exorcism and invocate Saints and Angels over the baptized Child it were hard to say I send him only to be Baptized when he knew how sinfully it will be done The truth is I can justifie no Man that will submit his Child to such a crossing at Baptism that can caeteris paribus have it by another better done tho' Prohibited by Man We must not be guilty of other Mens Sins nor of Church Corruptions L. Christ that will have mercy and not sacrifice would not have men refuse Christendom for fear of a Cross. M. Christ who would have Teachers learn that Lesson I will have mercy and not sacrifice would have no Minister deny Christendom to such as think their crossing sinful And yet he would have no Man commit any Sin to gain Baptism but will save the unbaptized that desired it so they might have had it without and will himself shew Mercy to such as consent not to a polluted Sacrifice And would have us prefer a lawful way when we can have it Baptism is our Renunciation of Sin. CHAP. LI. POINT VIII Of Rejecting not-Kneelers from Communion L. AND well they deserve it that will not reverently receive so great a Gift upon their knees from God. M. Do you think it is for want of humble Reverence Do they not kneel after and longer to God in Prayers publickly and in their Families and Chambers than most that blame them Were Christ's Apostles unreverent that did not kneel at receiving it in his own visible presence Was all the universal Church unreverent that for 600 Years if not 1000 after Christ forbad strictly all Adoration by kneeling every Lords Day because they would use a Laudatory Gesture denoting their belief of Christs Resurrection Do those men shew more Reverence to God and Religion that will kneel at the Altar and scarce ever kneel to God at home and seldom use his Name but with prophanation It is not unreverence that causes their dissent L. I know no just cause they have of this dissent M. I confess nor I while the open Doctrine of the Church renounceth all Bread-worship and Idolatry But were it among Papists where the Doctrine expounds the action I durst not do it But I told you before what moveth them which I must not again repeat But I will repeat it that it is a heinous injury to the Church and the particular Persons that on the account of so small and doubtful a circumstance wherein all antiquity is against the imposers they should deny Communion with Christ and his Church as much as in them lieth to faithful Christians and should turn the Sacrament of Love for no just cause into an occasion of hatred and persecution and the Sacrament of Unity into an Engine of division by their own needless impositions to perplex mens Consciences and set people one against another O what a snare and instrument of wrath and discord and inhumane usage of other men do many turn that blessed Sacrament into which is instituted for the Communion of Saints in unfeigned Love. The more such magnify the Sacrament as the very Flesh and Blood of Christ the more do they condemn themselves CHAP. LII POINT IX Of denying Lay-men Communion in a Neighbour Parish Church when they dare not Communicate in their own Parish for the Reasons aforesaid M. IX DO you think it is a sin deserving exclusion from Christian Communion for a man to think it unlawful for him to own and encourage the Ministry of an ignorant insufficient or grosly scandalous or hurtful Teacher A poor Christian that is unwilling to be damned and readeth that he should love his Neighbour as himself perhaps heareth the Priest tell the People what hypocrites and odious persons Non-conformists are and exhorts them to avoid such and to prosecute them and root them out as the intolerable enemies of Church and State and as unfit to be Members of any Society He is acquainted with divers Non-conformists their Lives and their Books and Doctrines and finds the clean contrary He reads in Scripture See that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently He heareth from the Pulpit See that ye hate one another and seek the destruction of one another Christ saith Love your enemies the Priest exhorts them to root out their friends Christ saith He that receiveth you receiveth me and shake off the dust of your Feet against them that receive you not It shall be easier for Sodom and Gomorrah than for such the Priest saith He that receiveth such Ministers sinneth against Christ and he that hath any communion with them is a Schismatick The man readeth Beware of false Prophets and thinks it a sin to encourage the teachers of lies and wickedness and he readeth He that hateth his Brother is a Murderer and hath not eternal Life and if I have not charity I am but as sounding Brass c. He thinks him a false teacher that contradicteth Christ and that seeks to damn the hearers And he thinks that no tongue can more contradict Christ than that which Preacheth down Love and Preacheth for hating godly Men tho' on slanderous pretences and that no man can do more to damn the People than he that draweth them from love to such hatred Another liveth in a Parish where a dry ignorant fellow affords him no such help as he is conscious his soul needeth and where the Common-Prayer is so much better than the Sermon that were it not for that he might better stay at home And where the Priests Conversation encourageth the Drunkards and Prophane and vilifieth godly Men. This man is for the Church-way but for a better Minister The question is whether for this he be so great a sinner that all neighbouring Ministers must drive him away and deny him Communion Another honest Christian taketh it for a sin to kneel at the Railes or to join with the Organs or to receive or desire the Diocesan manner of Confirmation or to forbear Communion with all Christians whom the Church-men here condemn or cast out The question is whether it be no wrong to any of these to be denied Communion at a neighbour Parish where his doubts are removed I prove that he hath right to such neighbour Communion 1. Because he is a Member of Christs Body the Catholick Church and therefore hath right to the Communion of Saints And to believe that in the Creed and condemn it in Practice is to believe to condemnation 2. They themselves teach that a true Christian hath right to Communion with all Churches where he hath
Oath L. The end is but to secure your Loyalty M. The End is one thing and the Means another We are ready to give better security of our Loyalty than this which I before intimated to you Do you think in your Conscience that all the Souldiers in England and all the Corporation-Officers and entrusted Persons and all the Vestry-men and all the Ministers are so well skill'd in Politicks and Law above Bishop Bilson Grotius Barclay and all the Tribes of Learned Lawyers Casuists Canonists Philosophers c. before named as that they can take such an Oath in Truth Iudgment and Righteousness Swearing Allegiance and renouncing Rebellion is easily known to be every Subjects Duty But to unty knotty Controversies in Law is sure above every vulgar Brain Why was not this way found out to prevent all the Civil Wars in the days of the two Williams of Stephen of Henry the 1st and 3d. of K. Iohn of Edward 2d of Richard 2d of Henry 4th and Edward 4th and Henry 6th and Richard 3d. and to prevent the Insurrections in the days of Q. Mary and Q. Elizabeth Why do they not this way decide all the Controversies at Liege Colen c. to make the People determine them by Oath All Politicks agree that the Difference between near Subjects and Slaves is that the former have propriety which none can take from them but by their Consent at least in their Wives Children and Lives and that Slaves have none such nor may resist a Commission to take them away though causlesly and Laws are there but the Will of the Lord who may cross them at his pleasure and that a Ruler of Subjects and an Owner of Slaves thus differ Now if it be a Controversy Whether the English be meer Subjects or Slaves the ignorant Vulgar are no fit Judges to decide it and that by Oath CHAP. LV. POINT XII Whether all Trusted in Corporations may declare That there is NO OBLIGATION on them or any other Person from the Oath called The League and Covenant M. I Spake to this before but a little on the by it being no XII part of the Ministerial Conformity Ministers are only to subscribe or swear that the said Oath bindeth no man to endeavour any Alteration of Government but the Corporations are to declare That there is no Obligation at all from that Oath on them or any other I have read much of the History of Heathens Mahometans and Christians and I confess I remember not that ever I read the like to this The likest to it that I remember was in the long Wars and Contentions between the Pope and the German Emperour when they sware and unsware and sware again as either Party got advantage And that Popes and Councils have Decreed the dissolving of Oaths of Fidelity to those Kings whom the Pope Excommunicates is commonly known but Protestants know no such power L. This Declaration is to be expounded by the many following Acts which only say there is no obligation to Change the Government M. That 's gratis dictum without proof that several Acts have the same meaning when the words so much differ is not to be presumed One of them is an Universal Negative without the least exception and the other a particular Negative only 2. And the Acts were made at several times to several men and the Parliament in the latter never pretended to limit or explain the former which sure they would have done if they repented of the Terms 3. And Parliament Men tell us That it was mentioned that the Non-Obligation of the Covenant should be limited and it was pleaded against it That if men believe that they are bound by it to any thing some will think that they are bound to all that is lawful and that it 's lawful to take Arms against the King and so there is no securing them from Rebellion as by that Covenant but by renouncing all its Obligation And this carried the Cause 4. It is not lawful for Subjects to put a particular Sence on Universal Words imposed unless the imposers first so expound the Terms which they have refused to do after twenty years complaint of the Dissenters and do justifie the universal sence to this day Therefore such forced Expositions of our Rulers words in so tremendous a matter are not to be feigned without good proof L. We say Bonum est ex Causis integris There is Evil in that Covenant therefore it is an Evil Covenant M. That 's none of the Question it may be Evil in that part that is Evil and the thing it self may thence be denominated Faulty or Evil and yet not all that is in it be Evil nor it Evil simpliciter but scundum quid Do you think all is Evil that is there Vowed L. If it be Evil no one is bound to keep it M. No not in the Evil part But do you think that the conjunction of some Ill things in a Vow or Covenant doth disoblige a man from all that 's good in it If so mark what will follow 1. Man is so ignorant and imperfect and faulty that he doth nothing that 's good without a mixture of some evil how can sinless perfection come from sinful Imperfection And so we should be bound by no Vow or Oath or Contract at all 2. If Knaves once learn this Lesson they will be sure to foist in some ill clause into their Vows to GOD and their Covenants with Man that so they may be bound by none 3. The Oath of Allegiance or Fedelity to the King and the King 's own Oath at his Coronation in the time of Popery had ill clauses in it for the Papal interest doth it follow that neither of them did bind 4. If an Irish Tory should on the high-way meet an English Lord and take his Purse pretend that he is against the King and should force him at once to take an Oath to be true to the King and to give him his Estate and conceal his theft The latter is evil and yet even that Oath bindeth to be true to the King. 5. If the Clergy in their Ordination in time of Popery had divers sinful clauses and promises doth it follow that their Ordination was null and obliged them to no Ministerial Duty 6. If the Clergy in former ages or in France or Spain be sworn to the King and the Pope doth it follow that this binds them not to the King because it binds them not to the Pope 7. If men were Married in time of Popery with unlawful Words and Clauses or lately in England by Justices in new terms was such marriage null 8. If a Papist make to you a Testament or Deed of Sale of his Estate and put in some unlawful clauses appealing to Angels or wishing you to pray for the Souls in Purgatory I do not think you would take that Will or Deed for a nullity 9. If in Popery or here some Clauses at Baptism prove bad it doth not
the young Clergy that can talk thus shew us by any good evidence that in other things they are so much Wiser Learneder than the Dissenters Are they all of greater Learning than Iohn Reignolds or better Hebricians than Hugh Broughton or better Logicians than Sadeel or Ramus or Sohnius or of greater Reading than Blondel c. 3. Do they know us better than we our selves We offer our Oaths that we hold what we do by the Cogency of appearing Evidence and are willing to know the truth 4. Have I here and elsewhere given no Reasons for our Dissent Have they answered my Treatise of Episcopacy my First and Second Plea for Peace my Apology my Treatise of the Terms of Church-Concord or any one thing that I have written for our Cause save two or three by disputes which when I have vindicated they have let fall the Disceptation What front have these men then that say we Dissent without giving Reason for it But you know how long the Press was shut against our Writings and yet then they that would not endure us to Speak accused us for being Silent L. Obj. IV. They say you are Non-Conformists meerly to make good your former Errours because you will not confess that you did amiss but will make the People justify you M. 1. What are those Errours If it be our dislike of any of the things before described I confess it is because we will not renounce them If it be an errour to be against their Church-corruptions and cruel Excommunications and denying Christendom to the Seed of the Faithful and Communion to faithful Christians I confess we will not recant these errours till they have better proved them such The Papists that swarm with Errours as a Beggar doth with Lice yet burn the Protestants as for Errour 2. I pray you wish those infallible men that in the ditch of dirt are delivered from all the uncleanness of errour to send only those those that are without errour to cast the first stone at us or those that have no worse errour than ours to silence excommunicate and destroy us 3. Have we given them no reasons of our dissent 4. Do they not know that the argument that hath brought us all into the case that we are in was thus given us 1664. and oft since in Print If we abate them any thing they will say that our Church was faulty and needed that Reformation who then is it that hath divided us to avoid confession of any former faultiness Tho' good Bishop Hall pronounceth a heavy Sentence on them that will justify the miscarriages of the Prelates L. Obj. V. They say that you took part with the Parliament against the King and involved the Land in Blood and have still the same rebellious principles M. 1. I confess there were some among us that were of the mind of Hooker Bilson Grotius Barclay and the common sort of Casuists Politicks c. and that thought that as in a doubt about Physick the College of Physicians were most to be trusted so in a doubt about Law the Parliament had been most credible And when the Irish had murdered two hundred thousand Protestants falsly pretending that they had the Kings Commission and threatning to finish their works in England there were many formerly tempted to fly in fear to the Parliament for safety being ignorant that the Kings bare word notwithstanding the Papists strength and interest was more to be trusted with our Laws Lives and Religion than all the Lawyers Courts and Pariament and that if all the Protestants in England had been used as those in Ireland they ought to have died patiently unless the killers would have given them time to send to the King to know whether he would have them live or die They were ignorant that a Lord Proprietor may do with his own as he list Who accuseth the owner for killing his own Sheep But the times of this ignorance are past The Long Parliament that made the Act of Vniformity cured it And shall not the Act of Oblivion be permitted to reconcile us and continue our peace 2. But Sir Who be they that were thus deceived I told you 1. That of near ten thousand that had Churches under the Parliament and Cromwel there was but two thousand that refused to Conform And is not seven thousand Conformists more than two thousand Dissenters 2. Many that were in the Parliament's Army Conformed and some that were for the Kings Death when the generality of those called Presbyterians abhorred it and the Engagement and brought in the King on reasons of meer Conscience 3. I have told you that we will take it thankfully if only those were silenced that had any hand in that War believing that it will not now be twenty Ministers in England And why are the rest that were Boys at School accused for other Mens opinions or actions For the time to come you need not fear them I heard some tell the Members of the Long Parliament that called them Rebels for saying that a Parliament may use defensive Arms against the Kings Commissioned Souldiers that if that would serve they would promise that if the King would but send a dozen Irish-men to kill them all in the house they would never be guilty of taking Arms to defend them nor perswading any else to do it L. Obj. VI. But they say that these Non-Conformists tho' they had no hand in the late War yet have the same Principles that caused it and that is Non-Conformity M. This is an argument a baculo ad angulum A man is against the Cross in Baptism or a Lay-Chancellor's excommunicating Men for a Ceremony c. ergo he is against the King and for Rebellion The other side say that the Irish Principles and the Popish were the cause and must we therefore conclude all Irish or Papists to be against the King They were Papists that raised the Wars on both sides in the aforesaid days of King William K. Stephen H. 1. and H. 3. and Ed. 2. and Rich. 2. and H. 6. and Rich. 3. and Ed. 4. c. Doth it follow that all rapists are rebels 2. But I have elsewhere fully proved that the Parliament when that War began were of the Church of England and Conformists and it 's strange that any should have the face to deny it while so many are yet living that know them Whitlocke tells us in his Memorials that they voted that every County should have a Bishop and his Presbytery And were those then against Episcopacy One would think that a County should be big enough to keep Episcopacy from dwindling to nothing every Bishop of old had but one City Many Counties have ten or near twenty Towns that were then called Cities But when Papists dare say that all are against Kings that are against the Pope who is the ruler and deposer of Kings it 's no wonder if every Bishop or Chancellor or Official c. will say If
practise Physick in London The Posts Walls and Gates are stickt with Physicians offers to cure the Lecherous pox To day I read Kirleu's Bill that saith he hath cured eight hundred of that disease I dare bet with you all the Money I have that if you enquire not eight or perhaps two of that eight hundred were Puritans or such as you now cast out for Non-Conformists unless you call Papists or such other Non-Conformists except any of them were Wives that catcht it of Husbands that are of your Church or Parishes and not of us or Husbands that catcht it of such conformable or Papist Wives But of these things we need no defence 3. But if our hearers be bad they have the more need of teaching and whether more are converted from ignorance sensuality worldliness and prophaneness by their teaching or ours ask others and not us L. Obj. XIV But they say that it 's by you that we are in danger of Popery because you keep up their hopes of a toleration by your divisions weakning us M. They may of the two say more probably it is we that bring in Prelacy Lay Excommunicators Ceremonies Liturgies For of the two we have done less against these than against Popery and stand not at so great a distance from them The impudency of some men is the shame of depraved humane nature They know that it is for being more against Popery than they are that our ruine is so implacably endeavoured They know that the Papists are our chiefest prosecutors thinking that if they could destroy us as their greatest adversaries they should bring the Church of England to their will and that it is but appropriating the name of Popery to the Italian Faction that set the Pope above Councils and calling the rest by a better Name and cutting off a few shreds named by Heylin in the Life of Arch-bishop Laud and it 's done They know that it is for drawing so near to Popery that the Non-Conformists Dissent from them and take it for granted that those men that are labouring to bring in Popery are the forwardest to make this putid accusation of us and that it hath been their labour these two and twenty years to have forc'd us to yield to an universal toleration and to petition for it that they might bring in Popery and then say it is we that did it and that for denying this and being unreconcileable to Popery the Papists are so unreconcileable to us as that nothing will satisfy them but our utter extirpation of which they would make blind sensual debauched malignant men that call themselves Protestants the instruments And how many of their pillars have written for a foreign Jurisdiction and defend Grotius I have told you before And to this day that Priest that is nearest to Popery is the bitterest enemy to the Non-Conformists and most preacheth for their destruction And these brazen-faced men cannot endure an honest Conformist that doth but preferr Protestants that dissent from their fetters before the Papists And those Bishops and Arch-bishops and the very Church of England in their times that were most against Popery are their scorn and hatred as you may see in Heylin's reproach of Arch-Bishop Abbot and the Bishops and Convocation except six Bishops in his days And by the base scorns that they now pour out against good Arch-Bishop Grindal calling such men as would strengthen us against Popery by reconciliation by the names of Grindalizers and Trimmers and such as would betray the Church And how they reproach and use Dr. Whitby for his Protestant Reconciler and Mr. Bold for his Sermon and the Author of the four Pleas of the Conformists for the Non-Conformists and such others you know The Author of the Reflections and the Samaritan they have not yet found out Mr. Tho. Beverley feareth them not The Bishop of Hereford Dr. Crofts the first man that ever I saw go forth with a Troop raised by his Brother for the King and his Sermon in my Pulpit the first that ever I heard against the Parliament when the King was in Yorkshire and he himself had been a Papist and is still zealous for their Church cause because he wrote the Book called Naked Truth to heal us and strengthen us against Popery they gnash the Teeth at him and so they do at Dr. Barlow Bishop of Lincoln that wrote of the treasonable principles of Papists tho' these Bishops are too big for them yet to vilify and openly oppose L. You may be more against Popery than they and yet bring it in imprudently by dividing us M. Who do you think in your Conscience is liker to bring it in we or they Who hath done and suffer'd more to keep it out We lay down all that we have to that end They will not part with a Ceremony or one Oath or a Re-ordination or an Excommunication of Christs Members to keep it out but plainly tell us that they had rather Popery came in than abate a jott of their Self-made Religion or Impositions or than such as I should Preach the Gospel But I confess I am not able to deny it that the Non-Conformists may be the occasion of bringing in Popery by way of Antiperistasis some men hate us and all serious Godliness so much that they are like enough to be for Popery because godly men are against it And I fear lest they that see the Non-Conformists would reform their Prelacy and Church-Courts and reduce them to the Primitive Episcopacy described by Bishop Vsher will be so much afraid lest they lose some of their Wealth and Domination by it that some of them will hearken to the Papists that will promise them an Encrease of that which they so esteem And indeed it is already no strange thing to hear them say They had rather the Papists came in with Popery than the Dissenters with their Reformation I think ere long you are like to be convinced more effectually than by Writing which Party is liker to bring in Popery and to turn Papists In the mean time I begin to praise Stephen Gardiner and such others for their Modesty that when they burnt Cranmer Ridley Hooper Philpot Rogers and the rest that they did not charge them with bringing in Popery and say we burn you for that L. XV. They say that you stretch the Words of the Oaths Declarations Subscriptions Liturgy and Canons to an ill sence by a rigorous Interpretation which was never the Meaning of the Authors and on that you ground your Dissent M. 1. I hope you will grant that when the things that men fear whether justly or mistakingly no less than deliberate Lying Perjury and Contracting by Justification the Guilt of many hundred thousand Perjuries and Swearing or Covenanting never to repent or endeavour that the Nation should repent of heinous Church-Corruptions or amend them and the nullifying of the Ordination and Ministry of thousands and Unchurching almost all the Protestant Churches and more such like a
man should not play with Matters of this moment nor take God's dreadful Name in vain nor sport with the Consuming Fire And I hope you grant that Words in Caths and Impositions are to be taken in the properest usual sence unless the Authors otherwise expound them And you know that they have been so far from expounding them otherwise as that these twenty years they have refused it and in Scotland sentenc'd the Earl of Argyle to die for expounding them as some would have us do And what do Oaths or Covenants signify if the Takers may put what sence they will on them and if the most express Universals yea the express Exclusions of all Exceptions may be taken in a particular sence with Exceptions such Swearers and Subscribers give their Rules no security Is it not enough to tell you we will willingly stand to Bishop Sanderson's own Rules in his Excellent Prelections de Iuramento for expounding Oaths and Promises Such as these Expositions of stretchers make Oaths to be none viz. It 's unlawful that is against the King's Law but not against God's to take Arms against the King viz. As King but say the Papists when the Pope excommunicates and deposeth him he is no King on any pretence whatsoever that is any unjust pretence by his Authority against his Person viz. It is to be done by Gods Authority and not by his or against any Commissioned by him viz. Lawfully Commissioned of which we are discerning Iudges The same I may say of all the rest As Assenting and Consenting to all things except many things Swearing Canonical Obedience in Licitis Honestis when we judge ten or twenty Canons if not the very frame to be Illicita Inhonesta c. L. But as you have said that those Great Men Grotius and Bishop Jeremy Taylor were for profitable Lying so you know that Worthy Latitudinarian Dr. who was wont to say That if false Knaves would turn him out of his Ministry and Living by ensnaring Impositions he would take the Words in the best sence he could subdue them to whatever the Authors meant and it was as Lawful for him to defend himself against Knaves with his Tongue as with his Hands and Sword. M. He is newly gone to his Judge Nobis non licet I told you that in my Catechism on the Ninth Commandment I have given unanswerable Reasons against Lying for any Benefit whatever Some say that all our Articles of Religion are but Articles of Peace and we subscribe not to believe them true but not to preach against them At this rate men need not stick at any Oath and may shake off the Oath of Allegiance or any other when they have taken it And if we are thought worthy to be hated and ruined as Rogues for refusing self-saving prudential deliberate Lying and Perjury when Oaths and Veracity are so much of the security of the Estates Names and Lives of Kings and Subjects and so necessary to all humane Converse we patiently commit our Cause to Him that shortly and righteously will determine all CHAP. LVIII Whether Communion with so Faulty a Church be Lawful L. I Shewed what you said against Conformity to a Friend and when he had read it he said What a Self-contradictor is this Man to lay all this Charge on the Church of England and yet himself to hold Communion with it and perswade others so to do Can we touch Pitch and not be defiled And indeed if all this be as bad as you fear I cannot see how any Separatists are to be blamed or how any may Communicate with so bad a Church M. Sic stulti vitia vitant drunken men reel from side to side to keep one right tract or to cut by a thred seemeth impossible to them I. You must distinguish between the Diocesan Churchs as constituted by their Courts of Government and Canons and the Parish Churches II. Between those Parish-Churches which have godly or tolerable Pastors and those that have not III. Between Ministry and Lay-Communion IV. Between stated and occasional Communion V. Between preferring their Churches before better and not avoiding them as null or as unlawful to be Communicated with Understand these five distinctions well and I shall satisfy you L. Apply them and let us hear your judgment M. I. The Diocesan Churches as they depose all inferiour Bishops and Churches and Rule by their Lay-Civilians Church-Censures I disown and hold no Communion with in those errours but only in their Christianity But I peaceably submit to them and would live quietly under them if I might II. Those Parishes that have notoriously uncapable Priests either through utter insufficiency heresy or hurtfulness doing more harm than good I own not to be Organized Churches nor have Commmunion with their Ministers as Ministers not owning them for such III. I hold it utterly unlawful to be Ministers with them on the terms now required of us and therefore I have no such Ministerial Communion with them IV. I preferr them not before better V. I hold not fixed Communion as a fixed Member of their Churches with all that I hold occasional Communion with L. What Communion is it then that you hold with them M. I. With the Diocesans and their Officers I hold mental Communion as a Christian and a Protestant in all the essentials of Christianity and that Reformation which they own II. With the Parish-Churches that have true Ministers I hold mental Communion as true particular Churches of Christ tho' faulty and local Communion on just occasions III. With the Parish-Assemblies that have intolerable Ministers I hold mental Communion with the People as Christians and will not refuse on just occasion to join with them in any good exercise as Lay-men IV. With those Churches that have Ministers and Liturgy as ours that need reformation I profess to join with them as Christians and Protestants that own all the Scriptures and that promise to preach nothing as necessary to Salvation but what is contained in it or may be proved by it And when I Communicate with that Church it is as a Society so professing But if their Sermons Liturgy or Lives have any faults being not Idolatry Heresy Blasphemy or such as rendreth their whole Worship and assembling unacceptable to God I disown Communion in any of those faults tho' I be present V. When I can have better caeteris paribus without greater hurt than good I preferr it and only use occasional local Communion with the Liturgy-Churches as I would do with strangers were I in foreign lands VI. Where I can have no better without more hurt than good I Communicate constantly and only with the Parish-Church where I live as to Local-Communion L. But how can you do either of these without guilt when they are as bad as you have described M. 1. I have not charged the Parish-Churches with that which I have charged the Diocesans their Courts with many honest Ministers never troubled nor excommunicated a