Selected quad for the lemma: cause_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
cause_n	king_n	law_n	matter_n	2,824	5	5.6347	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A00637	A counter-poyson modestly written for the time, to make aunswere to the obiections and reproches, wherewith the aunswerer to the Abstract, would disgrace the holy discipline of Christ.	Fenner, Dudley, 1558?-1587, attributed name.; Stoughton, William, fl. 1584, attributed name.; Jacob, Henry, 1563-1624, attributed name.	1584 (1584)	STC 10770; ESTC S101936	77,534	204

it which is the aduancement of vertue the beating downe and suppressing of sinne and impietie the keeping of the Church in a vnity and quiet order which beeing the effect of Christes kingdome and his gouernement hee maketh them the essentiall partes of it So that he hath not learned yet to put a difference Betweene the kingdome of God and Gods righteousnesse established by it Nor betweene the two petitions of the Lordes prayer that his kingdomr may come and the fruite of this That his will may be done in earth as in heauen Againe he graunteth the essentiall partes of Christes kingdome and outwarde policie of the Church but he denyeth any exact forme as though there can be essentiall poy●tes of outwarde gouernment perpetuall and yet they shal haue no perpetuall forme Can there be an outwarde essentiall thing without a forme Or can the essence be perpetuall and changeable and the form variable and mutable Can there be an immutable outward gouernment without immutable outward callinges offices and workes This is to giue a man without members a skinne for a bodye without bones and fleshe Lastly how iniurious is this vnto Christ he wil acknowledge the benefit must be had but he will not acknowledge the hand wherby it is giuen Christ is wise inough still to administer and rule and that he will gyue him leaue to doe But y ● he is wyse inough to doe it by his owne meanes that hee being The onelye Lorde should appoynt the diuers administrations of his Church alwayes y ● his spirite Shoulde minister fully sufficient diuersitie of giftes that one God shoulde worke the sufficient diuers faculties alwayes That is vntollerable false seditious hurtfull to the estate He can allow the people shoulde bee taught and exhorted and haue the Sacramentes but whether by Readers or by Teachers by reading Homilyes or by Pastours by men or women God his word doth not define the people must be ruled but whether by Gouernours appoynted by Christ or by men He must relieue his pore with almesse but whether by his Deacons or others that he muste seperate betwene the cleane and vncleane cast out the wicked but whether by his Church and Eldership or some other muste by no meanes be determined As if one should say it is essentiall and perpetuall that we haue our enteraunce into Christe and his Church our growing and nourishing in the same sealed vp perpetually but that it shall be done onelye by Baptisme and the Lordes Supper and not also by confirmation that maye not bee graunted Christ was wyse inough and willing inough to ordayne the effects but not the instrumentes If he saye he commaunded them saying Baptize doe this So we say he commanded the other saying I haue set Teachers Gouernours saying let the Doctor abide in Teaching the Pastour in exhortation the Elder in ruling the Deacon in distributing the Church euen the Eldership to be tolde and to excommunicate Lastly it is as if one should say I can wel allow her most excellent maiesty for her excellent wisedome to see the commonwealth administred iustice executed matters rightly pleaded determined but y ● this shalbe don by her most honorable coūsel by her chief iustices by her iustices of peace by her Shiriefes and Balifes by her Sergeants at the lawe that I can not like or allow of As for y ● place of Tertulian it is plaine he meaneth it of the discipline in the course of life which is chāgeable as may appeare by the testimenies alledged in the first point His next contradiction is concerning y ● means of liuing that y ● French church wold haue the rentes and reuenewes deliuered to the Deacons so the minister receiue his stipend but the booke of Discipline T. C. and the Admonition speaketh earnestly againste those who gape after Church-liuings and turne it to their purses and pleasure as though these could not stande together that they shoulde bee deliuered to the Churche onely and turned to holy vse that it shoulde bee administred by the Deacons or as though the playnesse of the one in reproouing an abuse bee contrary to the good order taken by the other Howsoeuer it be so the Christian Magistrate see the poore cared for by the Deacons and that they who preach the Gospell liue of the Gospell and that the Lord be thus honoured with our substance we acknowledge he doth his duety towardes the Church But if these want and the thinges giuen to that vse bee turned to the priuate commodity of some there is a defect in that behalfe But nowe this valiant champion will ouerthrowe the Eldership by such weapons as followe for T. C. Doth teach it from the Iewish Synedrion and out of the Talmud which according to Bonauentur and Danaeus handled ciuill thinges which our presbytery may not doe To which I aunswere that T. C. doth not fet it from y e Talmude but from the word of God as his whole disputation doth shew in that pointe onely hee sheweth that this presbytery hath beene continued vnder the Lawe and vnder the Gospell which is true and agreeed vppon by all three which he speaketh of It is also as fals y t Bonauenture speaketh so of the Ecclesiasticall Senate by it selfe for that which he noted is of the ciuill and politike synedrion Cap. 13. but hee maketh afterward when he handleth the Ecclesiastical pollicy of that time besides the priest and besides the Teachers in euery Sinagogue Senetors which inquired of theire manners which is manifeste by Exod. 4. 29. Exod. 17. 5. 2. King cap. 6. 32. Ier. 19. 1. Ezech. 8. 1. and Neh. 8. 5. Where are Elders occupied in Ecclesiasticall matters assistant to the Prophets and teaching Leuites and yet distinguished from them so as they medled not with the Word Danaeus in deede sayth they medled somtimes w t ciuil administrations which ours do not which thing yet maketh no contradiction to vs seeing we say with him that to ours is giuen by Christ Ecclesiastical authority only But the truth is y t they were then plainly distinguished some being for the matters of God and some for ciuill causes the matters of the king Now the cause of this which Danaeus speaketh of was that in waighty matters both came together because the politike lawes of the Jewes were for the moste part defined and set downe in the Worde of God they the Priest Leuites and Ecclesiasticall Elders were there to pronounce the sentence Ecclesiastically that is to pronounce y e sense of Gods word in y t cause the Princes cheefe of the people and ciuil Senate were to pronounce Ciuilly and iudicially the sentence of death or such like according to the sense of the Scriptures Secondly by the causes that when the Ecclesiasticall Senate commeth to the Ciuill the matters are thus mixt as Jeremy 26. 16. But when the matter is Ciuil meerely and no Question of the sense of the

sauing Priests of the Seigniory would be the the first weary of it For if I knowe their disposition they are as vnpatient as any men to bee at controlment and moste of all by a poore Minister It hath alwaies bene the practise of y e subtile Serpent who that hee might vndermine the authorye of Gods Embassadours and bring the Messengers of the most highest vnto disgrace to lift vppe some who neglectinge the moste essentiall duetyes of a Pastoure and Elder in feeding the flockes and being a Pattern in their whole life and example vnto them are wont to climbe into the ambitious throne of exercising a vsurped ecclesiasticall Dominion and a Lordship ouer their fellow-ministers that whilste by their place and pompe they might amaze the people as beeing men of great learning and wisedome and might also by their authority make the poore Ministers as the aunswearer sayth Priuat Ministers to speake when they wil wryte to what they list and to be their Commissaries cryer y t is their mās man to promulgat his sentence of excommunication at his pleasure hee might also bring to passe that which the Prophet Jeremy complayneth of in both The Prophets prophesie for reward and the Priestes exercise dominion * by their meanes and my people loue it so and what will they doe in the ende Which we see hath not onely won much vnto the cause of Sathan in popery but also it keepeth much power vnto him amongest those who do professe the Gospell For by this meanes it commeth to passe that they will goe 5. mile to heare a Lord preach when they will hardly come to Church to heare their owne Pastour By this meanes they becomme so irreuerent or rather sawcie with their Pastour that they care no more for his admonition and rebuke then for the bleating of a sheepe by this meanes they maye call him before a Commissarye a lay-man as he speaketh they may fetch out Excommunications thicke and three-folde if hee appeare not and so not only not haue him not to exercise dominion ouer them which Peter forbiddeth but also be Lordes ouer their Pastour beeing but priuate personnes which the lawe of reason disaloweth Which pollicy of Sathan although it become odious in the sight almost of all men but especially of true and louing subiects who are greeued that some not onelye exercise Lordship ouer theire fellow-ministers but also pearche so high as they pray vpon the right of princes whilste they forsoothe may not eate flesh in Lent or on a Fryday but by a Byshoypes lycense yet this man who hath giuen his tong leaue to reuile the Ministers with diuers slaunders reproches cannot content himselfe with that but must open his mouth against the due authority of the Ministers of Jesus Christe In which respect wee account our selues bounde by the Canonicall obedience which we owe vnto y e Archbishop of our soules Jesus Christ according to y e Canons which he hath made in his worde first to shew how this man disordereth y e questiō according to his maner voweth consent as it seemeth with the Jesuits in these his assertions proofs and then hauing discussed his allegations to confirm the plain truth by holy authority of scripture and worthy witnes of ancient times In the entrance therfore the Answerer is not content only to fly from y e issue whether according to the word of God the minister shold exercise the censures of the Church according to y ● word of God which with vs is executed by Commissaries meere lay-men vnto another thing namely what inconueniences the excommunication committed to the pastor might bring but also to set vpon a matter neuer affirmed by vs that a minister should without the rest of the ecclesiastical senate perform this thing His agreement with the Papists may appeare manifestly by their Annotation the 4. ver of 5. cap. 1. Cor. Their wordes are these Though he commanded the Acte shoulde be done in the face of the Church as such sentences and censures bee at this day executed also yet the iudgement and authority of giuing sentence was in himselfe and not in the whol multitude as the Protestants and populer sects affirm Wherfore seeing his cause is that which is betweene the sworne enimies of GOD and his Church we are not to fear but the truth which hath preuayled so often against them shall also carry the Garland from this newe Wrestler His first reasons are drawne from the inconueniences which hee thinketh will come vnto the Church by this means as requiring rather like a Ciuilian not a diuine what is safe then what is according to God his wil Amongst which he demaundeth whether the Authour had not rather be vnder the forme that nowe is then vnder the infinite dictatorship of his owne minister which I aunswere by another Question why should the ministers censures proceeding by the equall authority of an Eldership vpon causes determined by God his worde in a small volume be more infinite then y e Commissaries who cannot but proccede according to the infinite and contradictorye Canons of their Law who can excommunicate vpon non apparaunce for a matter of 12 pence Is it liker that one Minister shal haue many elders more tied to his wil pleasure then one Commissary his own affections Againe may not their appeale from one Eldership to a Conference or assemblie of many Ministers and Elderships be as safe as from the Commissary to another Byshop And if it were granted that the Byshop should haue authoritye in euerye particuler Churche yet with the Ministers consent vnlesse he will iustle one lawe against another why were it not more reasonable safe then as it is nowe in the Byshoppe alone Seeing then the Minister might haue more particuler knowledge of the causes in his Congregation then the Byshop and yet if hee were rash the Byshops wisedome might stay him And if the Byshoppe shoulde suspende the Minister vppon abuse of his authoritye yet hee were not at the same poynt he was before because then they which did not abuse their authoritye mighte exercise it still And if the Byshoppe dwell in the Parish and had preheminence yet hee shoulde not draw the execution of Discipline to himselfe onely but to holde it in common with him But what doe I answering his cauelles agayuste the Lawe seeing I doubt not but the Abstractor will soone aunswere his cauill in this behalf For the fountayns which are in his Booke already are not yet dammed vp by the answerer Wherefore I passe to his incōuenience which he fetcheth from the want of discretion in y ● Minister which is What if hee vpon want of discretion doe excommunicate some greate peere of his Parish vppon some surmized cause whose indignation may turne the whole church to great mischeefe To this I answere that vnlesse the Byshops seat aboue a Pastors be so sanctified as Hierome sayth by humain constitutions as that it can alwaies proceede with

that And so hauing seene his watr●sh obiections let vs see howe his side being drunk with the thirst of honour doe contrary them selues in one and the same point For when the place of the Ephesians is broght against an Arrchb. as numbring vp all the Ministries of the Word yet leauing out that the aunswere is it is not perfect for Deacons are left out and in the next page that he speaketh onely of the ministers of the word in the place of the Ephesians And again in the place of the 1. Cor. ●2 The Apostle leaueth out Euangellūs and yet in the next page out of doubt the diuision of the Apostle there is perfect And yet again pag. 317. It is perfect Heere note that to saye It is not perfect it is perfect it is not perfect of one and the same place and in the same respect are euidently contrarie There is no contradiction betweene this which is sayd that Byshops liuings c be turned to maintain the ministery and yet that noble men being Elders haue no maintenaunce of the Church I can finde no such thing in the sixt Art of French discipline if there were their meaning is y t they may not exercize any dominiō or cheefedome ouer the Deacons Neither is it any disorder if in an Ecclesiasticall Senate and in the church the minister be preferred before his Lorde to conceiue prayer to propound matters For it is not absurd for one to be superiour and inferiour in diuers respectes the Father inferioure to the Sonne which is aboue him in deliuering the Worde The first place out of Simler is not greatly materiall if they choose some elder to moderate though it belong vnto the Pastour yet it prooueth not but that hee is Superiour in opening the Worde vnto them in chose matters which are debated The next though it bee a geeate blemishe and mayme not to haue an Ecclesiasticall Presoyterye yet it inforceth no contradiction seeing that can-not bee the Presbyterye spoken of in the scripture where by his owne interpretation ministers are vnderstoode His conclusion which hee woulde inferre out of the Discipline of Fraunce that because Magistrates are of the consistorie and to be directed by the Pastour therefore they woulde raunge Princes with their Seniours is diuersly vayne For firste it is no reason seeing the Prince may bee subiect to the Ministery of the Pastor and Elders and yet neuer Subiect or inferiour to theire persons Secondlye it is manifest by their conditions that they meant not the supreame Magistrates when they say If one shall not hinder the exercise of the other Which must needes bee in Princes considering theire multitude of affayres In the Booke of the Souldier of Barwicke If their bee any vnreuerent speache we allowe it not yet if anye Prince will doe anye thing without Gods warrant in Church-matters It must not bee obeyed otherwise whatsoeuer is beyonde this wee condemn as vndiscreete In the next that he mighte make the Discipline enemye to Princes hee turneth vp againe that which sober men long agoe haue left and consented vnto The first is that we wold haue the Ecclesiasticall Senate to administer Ecclesiastical matters Would not Jehosephat also haue the Priestes and Leuits to administer the matters of God And what hath he brought of our bookes which is not as fully set down by those reuerent men of God B. lewell M. Nowell Seeing they say as long as the Ministers bee Godly and learned it is necessary they shoulde deside these matters that the Prince is commaunded to haue recourse vnto them in doubtfull matters that it belongeth to the Byshops office to decide of such causes but Christian Princes haue rather to doe with these matters then ignoraunt and wicked Priestes and that in case of necessitye the Prince ought to prouide for conuenient remedye As for his slaunder that we agree with the Papistes to giue Christian Princes power of fact but not of Lawe and authoritye to promote and set forwarde not to intermeddle in causes Ecclesiasticall Wee esteeme it no more then a fowle vntrueth which euery man of iudgement can conuince For if they haue authority in our iudgement by the Worde of GOD to see to their Ministrye and to cause them to make such Lawes as they knowe agreeable to Gods Worde to authorize such and disanull the contrarye cause them to make good when they woulde make yll or orderlye to procure suche as can and will bee present in the action and giue their consent if it please them all which are giuen by T. C. and by vs all vnto the Magystrate then doe wee graunte them no more then power of fact then to promote matters And in speakinge agaynst vs heerein dothe hee not direct him selfe agaynste the verye Lawes and orders of the Churche Which is that the Conuocation-house doe make Ecclesiasticall Lawes and if they bee good the Queene giueth her royall assent and then they must be obeyed if not then that they are no Lawe His seconde poynte whereby hee woulde make vs odious is that wee thinke the Prince maye bee Subiect to Excommunication that is that hee is a Brother Deutr. 17. 15. Math. 18. 15. that hee is not without but within the Churche 1. Corinth 5. 12. 13. If this be daungerous why is it printed and allowed in the famous writinges of Byshope Iewell in that the Priest doth his office when hee excommunicateth and cutteth off a deade member from the body so farre foorth the Prince bee hee neuer so mighty is inferiour to him yea not onely to a Byshoppe but to a simple Priest Why is it suffered which Master Nowell hath written The Prince ought patiently to abyde Excommunication at the Byshoppes handes Why are not the examples of worthy Emperours rased out of the Hystories seeing they haue beene subiect to this censure Why did the reuerend Father B. of L. reckon vp such examples not long since at Paules Crosse The next cauill is not worth the aunswere for they of Fraunce may call whomsoeuer they thinke good to giue them light in any Question and therefore much more professours of Diuinity So is the next for both they and Bullinger may make teaching generally incident to the Pastors office for so it is common both to Pastour and Doctor yet to apply his speciall gift and labour that way maye bee proper to the teacher or Doctor as is prooued in the treatize of that poynte before The Booke of Bertram I haue not neyther is it materiall if hee differ from trueth in some poynt thorough humane infirmity For they them selues say they condemne the errour of those who saye that Children are damned which dye without Baptisme as much as wee and yet is it written of their side that wante of Baptisme is a probable sign of reprobation Whē as we say it is no sign at al of reiectiō This opponing of y ● Admonition and Bertram and y

in Fraunce the substaunce of Discipline shall be out of the worde confirmed and the controuersies betweene vs equally and orderly decided We will also be bounde to subscribe as they are His first quotation out of the Adm. doth set down that in a different letter which is not there to be found Which practize is done onely to disgrace vs vnius●ly with the Magistrate The other two sentences though we iudge them somewhat hardly set downe yet they must be charitably interpreted according to the course of their Booke the first of the trueth of Discipline not of doctrine the other of Ministers so called and inabled as God his worde doth allowe The rest is worth no aunswere the matter beeing handled before and Gualter being a party with you against M. Iewell and M. Nowel in that point though againste you in the question of Church election Now in stead of this heape of disagreementes which are at one with them selues let him accorde these following drawne from the wryters who are of his iudgement No man for any crime is to be secluded from any law fall vocation if he repent him and become a new man and there be no generall commaundements contrary herevnto But this doctrine is consonant to the whole course of the Gospell Yet we all hold that Traytours are not to be admitted Byshops or of the Queenes Guarde They maintain this speach of Ambrose on the 4. of the Ephes In the beginning it was permitted to euery one to preach the Gospel baptize and expound the Scriptures but when the Churche was enlarged certain Parishioners were appoynted and goucrnors and other officers ordayned in the Church Yet now Ministers maye not preach without a lisence It is defended by the former Booke that The worde of God is as effectuall when it is read as when it is preached and reading is preaching yet the Booke of Common-prayer preferreth Preaching before Homilies And himselfe sayth that Preaching is the most excellent meanes to ingender fayth This man condemneth and reiecteth Doctours as new yet the former booke Page 425. sayth that by auncient wryters A Catechistes office was necessarie in the Church and distinct from the Pastour The same booke fol. 700. in the marginall note hath Nothing ought to be reade vnder the name of Scripture but the Canonicall Contrary to the booke of Common prayer which appoynteth the Apocripha to be reade vnder the name of holy scripture Iewel saith that for one bishop to haue authority ouer an other is neyther by Christ Peter nor Paule nor by any right of God his word Yet they do by preaching and wryting still maintaine it by the examples of Peter Timothy and Titus In the aunswere to the authority of Peter Martyr it is sayde that in our Church religion is onely reformed to the quicke But the examiner sayth they see weightyer things in the Church wherat they may be greeued as other good men are Now we come to his questions which althogh they he captious and therefore by lawe they are not to bee aunsweared yet to shewe our sincerity in that which we holde we will make him an aunswere To the first we saye Discipline touching the substaunce is fully described out of the worde of God in the booke of discipline the treatise of ecclesiastical gouernment and in the most of the soundest writers of our time The second is answered partly by the former partly by this treatise In steed of this we aske him what be y ● writings which haue cōfuted by the scripture all those foresayd godly learned writings To the third we aunswere it is no sounde diuinity to exclude Christian Princes from their gouerment in Church-matters Concerning Excommunication he hath his answere before To the two other clawses let the Papists answere for they are malitiously imputed vnto vs. And we demaund of him whether it be sound diuinity that when the Prince will eate flesh in Lent or do such like shee must haue a Dispensation from an Archbyshop And that the writes of his Courts euen in causes ciuill and matters of instaunce should be in his owne name and not in the name of her most excellēt Maiesty The fourth is aunswered in the Treatise of the Eldership And we aske of him what pregnant proofe he hath either from scripture or Father that Ecclesiasticall Gouernment shoulde be exercised in a wholle Diocesse by a Chancelor or Commissarye beeing a meere lay-man To the 5. and 6. both wee aunswere That rebaptization is condemned by the Worde of God and that those hee speaketh of be maried folkes And wee require him to prooue by the Worde of God that in case of the necessity which they pretend a Woman may baptize And to prooue by the same that men may be forbidden to mary in Lent or such like times The seuenth is aunswered in that to the 5. and 6. And we demaunde of him how they can prooue it lawfull to admit a Popish priest fallen from the Gospell and still vnapt to teach To the eyght we aunswere there is the like reason of the Supper and of Baptisme And we require him to prooue by the Worde of God that a Deacon may baptize and when he hath proued that let him proue why hee may not minister the Supper also To the ninth we answere that to the Ministers there may be diuersity of rewardes giuen so long as none haue to little nor any too much And we require him to prooue by the Word of God that a Minister of the Gospell may carry the pompe of men of estate To the tenth we aunswere as is set downe in the Treatise that a Minister should be apt to teach We would haue him proue that any other may preache who is not apt to teach To the Eleuenth we answere affirmatiuely and require him to prooue by the Scriptures that an Archbyshop may put Preachers to silence for not subscribing to that which is not required by the lawe To the twelfth we aunswere it is not lawfull for one to be thrust out of his Ministery for shewing modestly in his sermons the inconuenience of vnleauened breade in the Lords Supper that all vsury as wee speake it whither biting or nibbling is vnlawfull And we require of him to prooue by the Worde of God that it is tollerable to suffer Drunkardes whoremongers ignoraunt men of occupation in the Ministry and for not subscribing where Law doth not enforce it or for the not vsing of some ceremonie to turne out godly learned Ministers And make a pitifull seperation of the Pastor and the flocke The Lorde giue vs to be of one minde and wherein we agree let vs proceede by the rule of loue FINIS Eccles 12. Iud. 9. Psalme 2. 2. Chro 16. 9 See admon ad lib. concord de mod agend Mat. 24. 48 Beza praefat before the new Testament Hermonia confess page 53. gal confess art 29. Genes 2.