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A69753	The generall demands, of the reverend doctors of divinitie, and ministers of the Gospell in Aberdene, concerning the late covenant, in Scotland together, with the answeres, replyes, and duplyes that followed thereupon, in the year, 1638 : reprinted in one book, by order of Parliament.	Forbes, John, 1593-1648.; Henderson, Alexander, 1583?-1646.	1663 (1663)	Wing C4226; Wing C4225; ESTC R6298	125,063	170

defence thereof and every one of us of another in that cause of maintaining Religion and the KINGS foresaid Authority and to appoynt and hold meetings to that end like as our Proceedings have beene in themselves most necessary and orderly means agreable to the lawes and practise of this Kirke and Kingdom to be comended as reall duties of faithfull Christians loyall subjects and sensible members of the body of the Kirke and Kingdome and tende to no other end but to the preservation of Religion and maintainance of the KINGS Authority To your interrogatoures which ye seeme to propone rather to be snares to us then for satisfaction to your selves we answere once for all in generall that if this were the opportunitie of that disputation we shall be found to deny nothing unto Authority of that which the word of GOD the law of Nature and Nations the Acts of Parliament these Royalists sound Divines and loyall Subjects give unto Kings and Princes GODS Vice-Gerents on Earth and that not from respect to our selves but to the Ordinance of GOD by whom Kings reigne But seeing so oft and so instantly you presse us in this point ye force us mutually to propone to you such Questions as it may be ye will have no great delight to answere 1. We desire to understand of you whether ye allow or disallow the Service Booke and booke of Canons if ye disallow them as an innovation of Religion why have ye not either joined in supplication with the rest of the Kingdome or made a supplication of your own against them or some other way testified your Dislike Next whether it be pertinent for men of your place and Qualitie to move Questions of State touching the Power of Princes and Liberties of Subjects after His Majesties Commissioner and wise States-men have received Satisfaction of the Subjects for suppressing such motions as yours 3. Whether doe the Subscrivers more tender His Majesties honour by supposing his constancy in profession of Religion and equitable Disposition in ministration of Justice or ye who suppose he shall fall upon his Religious and Loyall Subjects with force of Armes contrary to both 4. Whether the joyning of the whole Kingdom in the Subscription of the Covenant or the entertaining of Division by your writing preaching and threatning of your People otherwise willing to joine be a more readie meane to settle the present Commotions of the Kirke and Kingdom 5. If the Prelates and their Followers labouring to introduce Popery in the Land make a Faction by themselves or as the Guisians in France did abuse His Majesties name in execution of the bloody Decrees of Trent which GOD forbid we aske Whether in such a Case the lawfull defence of the body of the Kingdom against such a Faction be a resisting of the Magistrate and a taking Armes against the KING If ye affirme it to be is not this to take part with a Faction seeking their own ends against the common-wealth of the Kirke and Kingdom and honour of the KING If ye say not Why then sinde ye fault with our Protestation of defending the Religion Liberties and Lawes of the Kingdom of the Kings Authority in defence thereof and every one of us of another and in that cause as if it were an unlawfull Combination against Authority 6. Whether doe ye think Christian Magistrats to be of so absolute unbounded power notwithstanding of any promise or paction made with the Subjects at their Coronation or of any Law made for establishing their Religion and Liberties that there is nothing left but suffering of Mar●yrdome in the case of publick Invasion of their Religion and Liberties If ye thinke that any defence is lawfull why misconstrue yee the Subscrivers of the Covenant If not how can ye be free of Flattery and of stirring up Princes against their loyall Subjects for such ends as your selves know best We verily believe that ye shall report small thanks either of so good and just a KING or of so duetifull Subjects for entering within these Lists It is enough that such Questions be agitated in the Schooles and that with as great prudency and as circumspectly as may be To the Tenth FIrst ye take us in our fourth Replye to be the penners of the Covenant and yet will rather wrest the words of it to your owne meaning then receive the Interpretation thereof from us for wee prejudge not your liberty of conception of that short Confession but permit it to your selves whatsoever may be the private meaning of some who have sub●crived yet there is nothing in the late Interpretation that c●ndemneth the Articles of Pearth and Episcopacy as Popish Novations Ye may voice and reason in an Assemblie as freely concerning them and give your judgement of them without prejudice notwithstanding of your Oath according to your own grounds as you would have done at the Assembly of Pearth 2. We hop● ye be not so ignorant of the estate of the Kirke neither will we judge so uncharitably as to thinke you so corrupt that in your opinion there is nothing hath entred in the Kirke since that time designed by you beside Episcopacy and the Articles of Pearth which can be thought prejudiciall to the Liberty and Purity of the Gospell To the Eleventh FIrst ye finde fault with us that we have not upon this occasion given you that testimony which we owe to you of your sincerity in professing the trueth and therefore to supplie our defects have taken an ample Testimony to your selves of paines in disputing in wrytting and preaching against Popery in processing of Papists and in doing all thinges which can be expected from the most zealous of frequent prayer to GOD of humbling your selves before him of your holinesse of Life and Conversation c. which have made us who were desirous to heare that Testimony rather at the mouths of others that we might be no more challenged as deficient in that kinde but give unto you your deserved praise to inquire in matters whereupon if we would believe the report of others wee heare that for all your pains Papists and Persons Popishly affected are multiplied and Papistry increased in your towne more then in any other town of the Kingdom no lesse under your Ministrie then any time before since the Reformation that there be in private houses Messes Crucisixes and other monuments of Idolatry that ye have not many converts from Popery that Jesuits and Priests are countenanced there that your People at home and your Magistrats abroad complain that ye are but too sparing of your pains in preaching and often fill your places with Novices but this we are sparing to believe and wish that the not imploying of your Tongues and Pennes in the defence of the Service Booke and Canons which are so pestred with Popery if the seeds of Romish Heresie Superstition Idolatry and Papall tiranny come under that censure and your willingnesse to joyne with the Kirke and Kingdom

GENERALL DEMANDS Concerning the Late COVENANT Propounded by the Ministers and Professors of DIVINITY in ABERDENE To some Reverend Brethren who came ●●ither to recommend the late Covenant to th●● and to those who are committed to their charge TOGETHER With the Answeres of those reverend Brethren to the said Demands As also The Replyes of the foresayd Ministers Professors to their Answers 1. PET. 3. 15. 16. Sanctifie the LORD GOD in your hearts and be readie alwayes to give an answere to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meeknes and feare Having a good Conscience that whereas they speake evil of you as of evill doers they may be ashamed that falslie accuse your good conversation in CHRIST ABERDENE Reprinted by JOHN FORBES Anno Dom. 1662. GENERALL DEMANDS Concerning the late Covenant Together with Answeres to them and Replyes to those Answeres THE FIRST DEMAND BY what Power or Warrand these our Reverend Brethren can sure of us or of our People subscription to this late Covenant not being sent by his MAJESTY or by the Lords of Counsell nor by anie Nationall Synode of this Kingdome nor by any Judicatorie established in it And how they can enforce upon us or upon our People who are no wayes subject unto them their Interpretation of the Articles of the Negative Confession In respect whereof as also in respect of that Band of mutuall Defence against all persons what-so-ever this late Covenant is substantiallie different from that which was subscribed by the KING and his Subjects Anno 1580 and 1581. ANSWERE VVEE are not come hither to usurpe the Authoritie of any Civill or Spirituall Iudicatorie or to enforce upon our Reverend Brethren and the People committed to their Charge the subscription of the late Covenant or the Interpretation of the Articles of that Confession which is called Negative or what-so-ever else of that kynde But are sent to represent unto them in all humility the present Case and Condition of this Kirke and Kingdome crying for help at their handes also and in Brotherlie love to exhort and intreat that they will be pleased to contribute their best Endeavours for extinguishing the common Combustion which by joining with almost the whole Kirke and Kingdom in the Late Covenant we trust they may lawfully doe without prejudice to the King's Majestie or to any lawfull Iudicatorie or to that Confession of Faith above mentioned Since the sound Interpretation and Application thereof to the Errours of our Times can make no substantiall change and the Band of Mutuall Defence wherein we obliedge our selves to defend the true Religion and the King's Majesties Person and Authoritie against all persons whatsoever is joined at first with the Confession of Faith Lyke as his Majesties Commissioner objecting That our Covenant was suspect to be an unlawfull Combination against Authoritie and to be the main hinderance of obtaining our desires hath accepted and was well pleased with our Declaration bearing That we have solemnlie sworne To the uttermost of our power with our Means and Lives to stand to the defence of the King's Majesty as of GOD'S Vice-gerent set over us for the maintenance of Religion and ministration of Justice REPLY VVE have Reverend Brethren sufficiently considered and examined your Answeres to our Demandes by which we expected full satisfaction to all our Scruples and doubts concerning the late Covenant But truelie in Modestie and Brotherlie Love we tell you that your Answeres what-so-ever you thinke of them your selves have not given us that satisfaction which we expected We know that some who rashly condemne every thing which is said or written contrary to the cause which they maintaine will boldly say of us that we have closed our eyes against a cleare and ingyring Light But first we say with Iob Our witnesse is in Heaven and our recorde is on high That LORD who only seeth the secrets of hearts knoweth that we love His Trueth and are ready so soone as it shall be shown unto us to embrace and professe it before the World Next we appeale to the Consciences of all impartiall Readers who shall have occasion to weygh and consider maturelie the weight of our Arguments and of these Answeres which it hath pleased you to give us wishing them yea most humblie and earnestly intreating them to judge both of your writtings and ours without prejudice or any partiall respect Yea we are confident that ye also o● whose love to the Trueth of GOD we are perswaded will after better advysement and more mature consideration of the matters debated acknowledge that we are not against the Trueth but for it The LORD open your eyes that you may clearly see that Trueth for which we stand WEE objected to you Reverend Brethren that you had not a Calling to urge us to the subscription of the late Covenant from anie acknowledged Authority or lawfull Judica●●rie established in this Church or Kingdome to which Objection ye answere no● here particularlie as we expected And whereas you say That you are come to exhort us and our People in all humilitie to joyne with you how is it that without our consent and against our will not having lawfull Authoritie which you seeme here not to acclaime to your selves you have publicklie preached to our People within our Congregation which is a thing rep●gn●nt to those places of Scripture in the which the Spirit of GOD recommendeth to Elders or Pastors the care of those Flockes Over which the holy Ghost hath made them overseers Acts 20. 28. 1. Pet. 5. 2 as also telleth us That the Pastors whom the Flocke must know and to whom they must submit themselves doe watch over the Soules of that Flock and must give account for them 1. Thessal 5. 12 Hebr. 13. 17. It is also con●rarie to the lawes of the Christian Church in all ages For by the ancient Canons Pastors are commanded to containe themselves within the limites of their own Charge and not to presume to exercise Pastorall Office in another Pastors Diocesse or Parioch without leave As also they forbid Pastors to receive to Divine Service anie man of another Pariochin that commeth in contempt of his own Pastor Concil Nicen. ● Oecum 1. Can. 16. Concil 2. Oecum Constantinop Can. 2. Concil Carthag 2. Can. 11. Concil Carthag 3. Can. 20. Concil Chalced. Oecum 4. Can. 13. Concil Nicen. 2. Can. 10. Concil Tribur Can. 28. Concil Nannet Cap. 1. 2. † 2. We did not without reason say That you and others of your Confederation enforce your Interpretation of the Negative Confession upon others seeing we heare that some Pastors and Prelates are forced to flee to forraygne Countreyes for fear of their 〈◊〉 because they have refused the said Interpretation and those 〈…〉 ave stayed in the Countrey dare scarcelie appear in the h 〈…〉 or streets and are threatned that their Stipends shall not 〈◊〉 unto them untill they subscrive your Covenant † 3. Whereas you doe

with-holde his Subscription from the Covenant because it doth not as it intendeth not to expresse ever●● duetie we owe to the Kings Majestie as if the not naming were a denying of the duetie Reply What ye have replyed in your Answere to our first Demand we have examined in our Confutation of your Answere 2. If ye consider well all the Circumstances of the making of your Covenant ye will finde that it had not been amisse at this time to have expressed more fullie the Loyaltie of your Intentions to maintaine the KINGS Person and Honour Next it is necessarie to expresse it yet more fully for our cause whom ye require to sweare subscrive your Covenant lest we doe any thing in this matter with a doubting Conscience which is a grievous sinne that is Doubting whether or no we are tyed by our Oath to maintain the KINGS Authority onelie in so farre as it is imployed in the Defence of the foresaid true Religion or at lest as it is not imployed against it For it seemeth to us unlawfull to sweare the maintenance of the KINGS Authority with this limitation precisely And if ye be of a contrary mynde we are most willing to confere with you of this point The ninth Demand VVhethere or no we can sincerely sweare to maintaine the Authority truelie and properlie Monarchicall of the King and withall sweare also disobedience to these Articles which are authorized by his standing Lawes and to maintaine the meanest of his Subjectes against him in their disobedience of his Lawes as yet standing in vigour concerning these thinges ANSWERE 1. The Answere to the first Demand is usefull here also 2. Forbearance of Practise for a time in such a case is rather Obedience then Disobedience for example Kneelling was thought convenient because all memorie of Superstition was past should it not therefore be forborne because Superstition is now revived and flagrant They who practise keep the letter of the Law but they who forbeare keep the life and reason thereof Replye Your Covenant requireth more of us then the forbearance of the practise of Pearth Articles as we have often times declared 2. We have also showne that the forbearance of Obedience to standing Lawes without licience of Superiours and contrarie to their commandement especially if it be done by deliberation and if men tye themselves by an Oath to do so is manifest Disobedience 3. The Article of Pearth anent Kneeling was not grounded onelie nor yet principally upon that Narrative which ye mention but rather upon the conveniencie and decencie of the gesture of Kneeling in the receiving of the holie SACRAMENT which reason doeth yet continue as also the other reason which ye mention holdeth yet for the bodie of the People of this Church were never Papists and consequently have no memorie of Popish Superstition as those who lived in time of Reformation 4. We can not see nor conceive how a Vow and Band of maintaining the meanest Subject of this Kingdom against all persons whatsoever and consequently against the KING himself as we have showne in our second Replye in disobedience of his Lawes can consist with that love reverence and subjection which we owe to our KING Neither have ye brought any thing in your Answere to satisfie us in this point And because ye alleadge as we heare that ye are mistaken in this point and doe vindicate your selves by those words of the Covenant wherein ye promise to maintain the KINGS Authority we pray you to expresse your minde more fully concerning it and to showe us 1. What ye meane by mantaining the KINGS Authority in that part of your Covenant wherein ye expresse your loyall Intention To maintain the KINGS Person and Authority and in speciall Whether or no the maintaining of the KINGS Authoritie be taken by you as it excludeth all resisting of his Authority by force of Armes even although he should command thinges unlawfull and contrarie to the Trueth For so we thinke it should be taken and that it should be so taken we are ready to demonstrate Neither can we sweare it in anie other sense 2. Whether your promise of mutuall defence In the same cause of maintayning the true Religion and his Majesties Authority c. ought to be understood of the maintaining the Kings Authority absolu●elie that is Whether he maintaine the true Religion or no Or on the contrarie if it ought to be understood of the maintaining the Kings Authority conditionally in so farre as he maintaineth the true Religion and not any other wayes If you say that it is to be understoode the first way we assent to that part of your Covenant and have no more scruple anent it except that one which we mentioned in our Reply to your second Answere to wit that the words of your Protestation seeme to import more and that your Paction or Covenant is made without the Kings privitie and consent If ye say that it is to be understood the second way then we continue urging our foresaid Demand to wit how a man can maintaine the Kings Authority and withall maintaine the meanest of His Subjects in resisting His Authority And how we can be said to stand for the Kings Honour when we vowe and promise to doe that which hee himselfe professeth to be against his Honour and which in the common judgement of men is thought to be so The determination of this point is more then necessary at this tyme and therefore let us in sinceritie and Brotherly love conferre of it that the Consciences of others who doubt of this may receive satisfaction The Tenth Demand Whether or no we ought to sweare to such a Covenant which taketh away from us all hope of a free Assemblie or Parliament to judge of the matteres presently debated for how can these vote freely of any matter propounded to the decision and deliberation of the Church and Estate who have already sworne to adheere to one part of the Question and how can those who dissent from them submit themselves to their judgement chiefly seeing they are Possessoures and have Lawes Civill and Ecclesiastick standing as yet for them ANSWERE We perceive that this tenth Demand is made of the Articles of Pearth therefore we answere as before That we promise onely forbearance which can prejudge no mans liberty in a Generall Assembly Replye We have showne that your Covenant and Oath importeth a manifest Abjuration of the Articles of Pearth and therefore the swearing of it doeth manifestly prejudge the liberty of Voting in a Nationall Assembly For how can they freely either reason in an Assembly concerning Episcopacy and the Articles of Pearth or else give their judgement without prejudice concerning them who have already promised sworne and vowed first To adheere to the Discipline of the Kirke that is according to your Interpretation to the whole externall policie of the Church as it was 1581. 2. To labour by all meanes lawfull to remove and expell all those Rites and

joine with us in subsc●iving are not yet answered for first a sound interpretation of the Covenant although proceeding from a private person and altogether voide of externall Authority can not make a substantiall difference and if the interpretation be unsound although it were confirmed by Authority it maketh not a substantiall coincidence 2. Why is it denyed that the former Covenant containeth mutuall defence since all are obliedged thereby to de●end Religion according to their vocation and power and the KINGS person and Authority which can not possiblie be done without mutuall defence and since that clause of the Covenant is so expounded and applied upon grounds of perpetual reason in the general Band drawn up Printed by Authority An. 1590. 3. Ye must either prove this Covenant to be substantially different from the former which is impossible or ye must acknowledge this to have the same Authority with the former since we are really obliedged in the former Covenant and virtually the same warrand of KING Counsell and assemblie remaineth and was never yet discharged by vertue whereof the Covenant might have beene renewed yearly by all the subjects of the Kingdome no lesse then it hath beene subscrived yearly by such as passe degrees in Colledges and such as were suspect of Papistrie from time to time 4. What was done by his Majesties Commissioner was no● done in a corner that it needeth to be pryed into or doubted of and what was allowed by his Grace who had so great power from his Majesty to declare his Majesties will and to receive Declarations from his subjects and who was in every poynt so zealous and tender of his Majesties service and honour who are ye that it should be dissallowed by you Ye will have the Kingdome guilty of combination against Authority and will not have the KING to be satisfied when they have declared themselves to the contrary and their Declaration is accepted by his Majesties Commissioner This manner of dealing is more sutable to Papists and such Incendaries then for you who desire to prove good Patriots in using all means of Pacification 5. We are sory that ye should be the first who have accounted our Covenant to be a confederacie against the Trueth since some of your selves and all every where have been constrained to acknowledge that they aime ●t the same end with us to maintaine the Trueth And for that which displeaseth you in our way that we deale after such a manner with people to come in we answere that we have seen in this Land the Day of the LORDS Power wherein his people have most willingly offered themselves in multitudes like the dew of the morning that others of no small Note have offered their subscriptions and have been refused till tyme should try that they joine in sincerity from love to the cause and not from the feare of men and that no threatnings have been used except of the deserved judgement of GOD nor force except the force of reason from the high respects which we owe to Religion to our KING to our native Countrey to our selves and to the Posterity which hath been to some a greater constraint then any externall violence and we wish may prevaile also with you To the Second VVEE perceive that ye passe in silence that which we answered concerning the preventing of trouble which by all appearance had been too sensible to many before this time if the Conventions censured by you had not been kept we desire that ye would here declare your selves whether ye would have rather received the Service Booke Booke of Canons and other trash of that kind tending to the subversion of Religion and to the prejudice of the Liberties of the Kingdom then to have conveened in a peaceable manner to present Supplications to his Majestie for averting of so great evils Neither doe ye speak a word of the saying of K. Iames which ought to be regarded both for the witnesse sake who is of so great authority and for the testimony which containeth so great reason For shall not the whole body of a Kingdom stirre pro aris focis or shall our Religion be ruined and our Light be put out and all men holde their peace We told you also that the first part of the Act of Parliament 1585 is relative to another Act in Queen Maries time which specifieth what sort of Leagues and Bands are forbidden and setteth us free from the breach of the Act but yee have answered nothing to this and still dispute from the Act of Parliament rather then from other grounds better beseeming your Profession and ours and in this will so precisely adhere to the letter of the Law that you will have no meetings without the KINGS consent even in the case of the preservation of Religion of his Majesties Authority and of the liberties of the Kingdome which we are sure must be contrary to the reason and life of the Law since the safetie of the People is the Soveraigne Law Although it be true also that for our Covenant we have the consent of Authority pressing upon all the subjects in the generall Band and confession of Faith formerly subscrived for maintenance of the Religion their subscription and Oath as a note of their soundnesse in Religion and of their loyaltie and fidelitie to the KING and his Crown wherein Iurisconsults more skilled in this kinde then we need to be have given their Responses and Verdicts in favours of us and of our cause 2. The poynt touching Authority is so full of Thornes and Rockes useth to be so vehemently urged to procure envye against the Gospell of CHRIST and can so hardly be disputed and discussed except in a large Treatise to the satisfaction of Kings and Kingdomes and all having interest that for the present we only wish you to heare the testimonies of two grave Divynes the one is Whittaker in his Answere to Master Reynolds preface pag. 6. Stirres and Tumults for matter of Religion Reynold rehearseth that hath been in Germanie France Bohemia as though it were sufficient for their condemnation that they once resisted and did not by and by admit whatsover violence was offered either to GODS Trueth or to themselves contrary to Promise to Oath to publicke Edicts to Law whereby they were warranded to doe as they did more of this matter will I not answere being of another nature and cleared long since from the cryme of Rebellion not only by just defence of their doeing but also by the Proclamations and Edicts of Princes themselves The other is Bilson in his Booke of Christian subjecton in defence of the Protestants in other Countreys against the objection of the Iesuit Pag. 332. affirming that subjects may defend their ancient and Christian liberties covenanted and agreed upon by those Princes to whom they first submitted themselves and were ever since confirmed and allowed by the Kings that have succeeded they may requyre their own right save their own lives beseech that

in regarde of the Oath of GOD Eccles. 8. 2. And that we should be subject not only for wrath but also for conscience sake because the powers that be are ordained of GOD whosoever therefore sayeth S. Paul resisteth the power resisteth the ordinance of GOD And they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation Rom. 13. In the words of the Apostle S. Paul there is a remarkable opposition betwixt subjection and resistance 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 implying that all militarie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 whether defensive or offensive if it be against the superiour Power which GOD hath set over us is forbidden In like manner we reade Matth. 26. 52. that all they that take the Sword shall perish with the Sword Now certaine it is that in a free Monarchie Subjects have not the Sword from GOD except by the hand of the KING to whom only GOD hath immediately given it And therefore whosoever taketh the Sword without his warrand hath just reason to feare the foresaid warning of our SAVIOVR Many other places of Scripture might be adduced to this purpose which for brevity we omit and doe proceed in the next rowme to some testimonies of ancient Fathers and other writers 10. T●rtullian in his Apologeticke chap. 30. and 33. and 37. telleth vs that the ancient Christians in his time although having a● heathen and persecuting Emperour did honour him as chosen of God and second from GOD and first after GOD and did choose rather to suffer then to make resistance by force of Armes although they lacked not number and strength to doe it 11. The like example have we in that renowned Thebean Legion of 6666 Christian Souldiers called Agaunenses from the place of their suffering who without making resistance as they had strength of hand to have done suffered themselves rather to be slain for their Christian profession by the Officers of Maximian the Emperour executors of his cruell commandement against them This fell out in the 18 yeare of Diocletian as Ado Viennensis writeth in his Chronicle which was the yeare of GOD 297 as Cardinall Baronius reckoneth in his Annalls And of that their Christian cowrage and pious resolution Venantius Fortunatus an ancient Bishop of Poictiers hath left unto us these Encomiasticke lynes in the second book of his Poems Biblioth Patr. Tom. 8. Edit 4. Pag. 781. Queis positis gladiis sunt armaè dogmate Pauli Nomine pro CHRISTI dulcius esse mori Pectore belligero poterant qui vincere ferro Invitant jugulis vulnera chara suis. 12. Gregorie Nazianzen in his first Oration speaking of the persecution by Iulian the Apostate when the Christians were moe in number and stronger in might of hand to have made open resistance if they had in their consciences found it agreable to their Christian profession declareth plainly that they had no other remedy against that persecution but patient suffering for Christ with gloriation in Christ. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 13. S. Ambrose having received imperiall commandement to deliver the sacred Houses or Churches to be possessed by the Arians declareth what he thought convenient to be done in such a case to w●t neither to obey in that which he could not performe with a good conscience no● yet to resist by force of Armes His wordes to the people Con●ione 1. contra Auxentium are these Why then are ye troubled I shall never willingly leave you If I be compelled I can not gain-stand I may be sory I may weep I may sigh Against Armes Souldiers the Gothes also my Teares are Armes For such are the Guardes of a Priest Otherwise I neither ought nor may resist And in the second book of his Epistles and 14 Epistle to his Sister Marcellina speaking of that same purpose he sayeth I shall not fortifie my selfe with a multitude of people about me We beseech O Emperour we fight not I may not deliver the Church but I ought not make resistance 14. Such also was thē doctrine and practise of many other great Lights which shined in the dayes of Iulian the Apostate and in the dayes of the Arrian Emperoures and Gothicke Arrian Kings 15. S. Augustine writing of a lawfull Warre acknowledgeth that only to be lawfull which hath authority from the Prince For it is much to be regarded sayeth he for what causes and by whose authority men undertake Warres But that naturall order which is accommodated to the peace of mortall men requireth this that the authority and counsell of undertaking warre be in the power of the Prince 16. The imperiall Lawes doe say the same ff Ad legem Iuliam majestatis Leg. 3. Eadem lege tenetur qui injussu Principis bellum gesserit delectumv● habuerit ex●rcitum comparaverit Et Cod. ut armorum usus inscio Principe interdictus sit Nulli prorsus nobis insciis atque inconsultis quorum libet armorum movendorum copia tribuatur These are the words of the Emperoures Valentinian and Valens Et Cod. de ●e militari Leg. 13. Nemo miles Nemo miles vel sibi vacet vel aliena obsequia ●e nutu principali peragere audeat c. 17. Bodin in his first Book de Republica Cap. 10. Num. 155 and 156. Pag. 244. Edit Latin 4. Ursell Anno 1601. reckoneth among the proper rights of Majesty the right and power to make Warre and this he showeth to appertain in a free Monarchie to the Prince onely 18. To this meaning sayeth Peter Martyr As concerning the efficient cause it is certain that Warre may not be made without the authority of the Prince For Paul sayeth that he beareth the Sword therefore he may give it to whome he willeth and may take it from whome he willeth Loc. Com. Class 4. Cap. 16. § 2. And a little after to wit § 7. he reciteth and commendeth a saying of Hostiensis to the same purpose 19. Calvin in the four●h Book of his Institutions in the last Chapter of that Book disputeth the Question at length and by many strong Arguments evinceth and concludeth that it is nowise lawfull for Subjects to resist their Prince by force of Armes whether the Prince be godly and just or ungodly and unjust in his conversation and commandements and that nothing remaineth to Subjects in such a case but to obey or suffer Where understand that Fleing is a sort of Suffering Neither are his words subjoined in the 31 Sect. to wit I speake alwise of private men c. contrary to this For first Calvin in this Dispute indifferently useth the names of private men and Subjects And therefore in the 22 Sect. at the beginning of it he termeth those of whose duety he disputeth Subjects And indeed whosoever is a Subject is also in respect of the supream Ruler a private man Although Magistrats who are under the KING be publick persons in respect of their Inferiours yet being considered with relation to him that is Supream 1. Pet. 2. 13.

heard to the contrary these twenty years past to cleave unto the words of the Covenant concerning such Rites as are brought into the Kirke without or against the word of GOD. The Blessing of Marriage now the second time instanced we conceive neither to be circumstance it being neither time place order of doing nor any such thing nor a Ceremony properly so called more then the Blessing of the People commanded in the Law and practised before the Law or praying for a Blessing upon the Ordinance of GOD that it may be sanctified unto His People we neither exalt Marriage so high as with the Papists to thinke it a Sacrament nor doe we abase it so low as to thinke it a paction or contract meerely Civill it being the Covenant of GOD which cannot be disolved by consent of the parties as other civill Contracts may be and therefore as we will not use it superstitiously according to the prescript of the Service Booke so will we not for the abuse of Popery although it were a Paction meerely civill it being so important with-holde Ecclesiasticke Benediction from it To the Sixth SIlence carrieth sometimes the appearance of consent sometime it is from weaknesse and since yee know also that it may at sometimes come from wisedome and moderation why doe ye not rather keepe silence your selves then make such an interpretation of ours We deny not but Divines both ancient and moderne are against us concerning the lawfulnesse of the thinges contraverted but we withall affirme first that Divines both ancient and moderne are against you also and both may be true for both are but propositions indefinite in a matter contingent 2. That almost all Divines universally are for us and for the forbearance of thinges indifferent in such a case which is the point urged by us and cleared before Secondly we deny not but the Oath containeth many other Articles but concerning that of the Novations already introduced if ye could have believed us and so many thousands as have subscrived it containeth no more but the forbearance of them for a time neither can any farther be extorted from the tenor of the Covenant it selfe according to your grounds If ye will interpret it according to the meaning which ye thought it had the last year and which we urge you not to change and to promise forbearance can neither be contrary to that duety which ye ow to your flock nor be disobedience to Authority but a meane to edifie GODS people and obedience to GOD. To the Seventh FIrst The reason propounded in the seventh Demand for refuseing your subscription because ye supposed Pearth Articles to have beene abjured as Popish is answered to the full and impediment put out of your way This other that ye propound concerning our conception and meaning of the short Confession may be as easily removed if ye will once believe that we urge not upon you our meaning but leave you to your own till the matter be examined in an Assemblie 2. Ye call some of those Novarions necessarie but without warrand of that Assembly which concluded then as indifferent and all the rest you will have to be laud●ble thus by progresse of time things formerly indifferent become necessary and what was but lawfull before and had much adoe to gaine that reputation is now become laudable where ye plainly discover the cause of your unwillingnesse to subscrive not so much to be the commandement of Authority as the necessity and excellency of the things commanded Till ye therefore change this opinion ye cannot promise forbearance neither upon our dealing nor at the commandement of Authority although forbearance should serve for the peace of the Kirke and Kingdome To the Eight FIrst we remit the reader to our Answere and your Reply which we hope shall be found no confutation 2. We observe that ye have not answered our Argument for our swearing the defence of the KING and his Authority with a specification which ye call a limitation wherein we have followed the Confession of Faith ratified in Parliament the KINGS Confession and act of Parliament upon which ye will not doe well to fasten so foule Imputations and put so hard constructions as ye doe upon us for inserting in our Covenant what they have said before us If our specification be right why censure you it If it be wrong why fasten ye not your censures upon the fountaine from which it is derived the loyalty of our intentions to maintain the KINGS Person and Honour is so fully expressed that it hath given content to those who are nearest his Majesty and we should wrong not only them but also the Covenant and the subscrivers thereof if we should make new Declarations to others of greater distance who wrong both the KING and themselves in craving them 3. To doe with a doubting Conscience is a grievous sinne but to make and multiply do●b●s for hindring a good worke and to oppose against a shining light is no lesse grievous Ye spake before of a limitation and now ye have added precisly as if the n●ming of one duety were the excluding of all other dueties We all by our Oath of Alleadgeance by his Majesties lawes and by other obligations acknowledge that we owe many other dueties to the KING which were very impertinent to expres in this Covenant 4 What kynde of conference ye meane whether by word or write we know not but while we were among you ye know what notice you were pleased to take of us and we have no delight to resent it To the Ninth FIrst We are ashamed to draw this Rug-saw of contention to and fro in a continuall Reciprocation concerning the forbearance of Pearth Articles and therefore forbearing to doe so any more we referre the Reader to our former Answeres 2. We doe not affirme that the only reason why kneeling was appointed was because all memory of superstition was past There be indeed other reasons expressed in the Act but such as the Authors thereof may be ashamed of as both perverting the Text Psal. 95. as making kneeling to be necessary in every part of GODS Worship and as giving matter to many Treatises proving kneeling before the Elements to be Idolatrie according to the Act unto which we now referre you but this we say which is manifest by the Act it selfe that in the case of present superstition or feare thereof all other reasons had not beene forcible to enforce kneeling then nor can have force to continue kneeling now This feare hath beene great this year by past throughout the Kingdom by reason of the many superstitions of the Service Booke which it may be ye no more acknowledge then ye doe the superstitious dispositiō of the people because they are not that which they were at the time of Reformation 3. We would heare what malice it selfe can say against the words of the Protestation That it shall be lawfull unto us to defend Religion and the KINGS Authority in