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A15978 [A notable discourse, plainelye and truely discussing, who are the right ministers of the Catholike Church written against Calvin and his disciples, ... with an offer made by a Catholike to be a learned Protestant ... .]; Marques de la vraye église catholique. English Albin de Valsergues, Jean d', d. 1566.; Rishton, Edward, 1550-1586, attributed name. aut; Allen, William, 1532-1594. 1575 (1575) STC 274; ESTC S112318 85,201 271

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¶ The Preface to the Reader PLutarche a noble Philosopher a diligent Historician writeth in the life of Demetrius a king of Macedonie that when an olde woman came to him beséeching him to heare her speake and he made aunswer that he had no leasure the woman looking vpon him sayd to him agayne with a loude voyce why haue you no leasure to rule as a king shoulde Which wordes so pearced the kinges heart and so greatly preuayled in him that he forthwith gaue her audience and from that day none came to him for any matter but gently and with all diligence he did heare them discusse their causes Boysteouslye were these wordes spoken of a subiect and not with that reuerence that was méete to be geuen to a king Notwithstanding as Cicero witnesseth in the second of his Tusculanes Tristis res est dolor sine dubio aspera amara inimica naturae ad patiendum tolerandumque difficilis Sorow is a gréeuous thing without doubt sharpe bitter and an enemye to nature harde to suffer and forbeare Sorowe as I suppose constreyned the séelye woman to speake as she did veras exprimere voces and to vtter the truth On the other side consider not only the gentle nature of this noble prince but also his great wisedome in considering nothing to be more séemely for a gouernour then to hear mens causes indifferentlye and to sée all wronges redressed Nihil sayeth the same Plutarche tam egregium tamque proprium Regis esse videtur quàm iusticiae opus Nothing is so excellent so properlye pertayning to him that is a magistrate as iustice I haue read that the Tribunes which wer officers chosen for the defence of the Commons of Rome had their gates or dores neuer shut neither by day nor by night in token that thither might be the recourse of al them that had néede of succour So ought euery gouernoure whether he be spiritual or temporall to be a succour and as it wer a castle and a fortresse to them that be vnder his tuition Dion Cassius in his bookes that he wrote de principe amongst other preceptes willeth chiefely and aboue all thinges that whosoeuer be the head of the people be a diligent worshipper folower of God next that he be louing to his subiectes if he will haue them to be faythfull to him and loue him as subiectes shoulde their prince For it is not of likelyhood said Dion neither doth nature permit but that he that loueth should be loued when we sée dogges to fawne and horses to neye to them of whom they be cherished Again he would haue such rulers to call themselues shepherdes and féeders of men rather then otherwise So Homer calleth a king pastorem populi a shepherde and féeder of the people And Plato in his Dialogue called Minos writeth that Minos and Radamanthus which gaue lawes to the men of Crete were the true shepherdes of men whiche was not spoken of so noble a Philosopher without a iust cause for nothing doth more nourish mainteine and vpholde a common wealth then lawe which as Tullie in secūdo de natura deorum sayth est recti praeceptio prauique depulsio a commaunder of that which is good and honest and an expulser of all that is noughte and vnhonest Now as a shepherdes care is to sée his shéepe fedde in wholsome pastures and to be kepte safe from wolues al other beastes that would wery and destroy them and if any in the flocke be infected with any outwarde scabbe or inward maladie to remedie it betime or if the contagion admit no helpe but is incurable to haue suche a one away from the flocke that he hurt none of them that be whole Euen so must he that will be a shepherde of men studye for the good ordering and quietnes of the multitude ouer whom he hath charge and that all enormities that might disturbe a common wealth whether it be spirituall or ciuill be expelled and that all faultes be redressed with due correction vsing lenitie and seueritie after as hope or dispaire of amendment shall appeare Neither hath the name of a shepherde lacked his preheminence at any time That good Abell ad cuius munera deus respexit to whose giftes sacrifice God had respect was a shepherde Abraham in whose séede God promised that all nations shoulde be blessed was a shepherde so was Isaac his sonne and Iacob his nephewe and his sonnes also Moyses that noble captayne and deliuerer of God his people was a shepherde in the lande of Madian Dauid of whom S. Steuen sayde that God gaue this testimonye Inueni Dauid filium lesse virum secundùm cor meum qui faciet omnes voluntates meas I haue founde Dauid the sonne of Iesse a man after mine owne heart and minde which shall do all my will. Act. 13. This noble king Dauid was a shepherde These I suppose almightie God woulde haue to be ensamples to all them that be in authoritie for as Paule sayth Quaecunque scripta sunt ad nostram eruditionem scripta sunt All thinges that are written are written for our instruction that as they fedde that séely innocent cattell so shoulde all Magistrates that professe his sons name learne to gouerne the people in the obedience of his doctrine that they might be innocentes manibus puro corde nec iurantes in dolo proximo suo Innocents of their handes and of a pure heart which vse no deceipt towardes their neighbours but in al their doinges shewe themselues to be veras oues pascuae Christi the true shéepe of the pasture of Iesus Christe who sayeth Bonus pastor animam suàm dat pro ouibus suis A good shepherd geueth his life for his shéepe Fewe wordes but full of pith And neuer could mo thinges be spoken more compendiouslye For what will he refuse to doo what labour what trauayle what payne will he forsake which for that perfourmance of that he goeth about will not spare his owne life If a good shepherde setteth so great store by his shéepe if he loue them so tenderly that he will rather lose his lyfe then to sée thē in any danger what will he not doo els for them Howe can it be otherwise but that he will sée his flocke fedde in wholsome pastures howe can it be thoght that he will not tarye with them to kéepe them from wolues from dogges that fall to byting of them and from other like rauenous beasts Who would imagine him to be so negligent that he will not in the euening bring them home to the cote or folde Will he not trowe you if any be strayed go séeke him out and bring him agayne to his felowes If any be sicke will he not sée him holpen with all diligence Sée therfore what a great matter our Sauior did comprehend folde vp as it were knit together in a bundell al that can be desired in a good herdesman O that gouernours whō god hath put
passe drye foote ouer the redde Sea Whye did ye not require at his hande that it mighte please him to authorize his worde preached by youre ministers with Signes miracles and tokens as he did when he sente youre felowes the Apostles seeinge that you are Prophetes howe commeth it to passe that you haue not foreseene that we would not beleue you for who is he although he were a deuil that could not say as muche But we haue one disauowe which God hath geuen to manye which doo report that they doo come from him whiche doth greatly ouerthrowe the authoritie of your commission He doth say in the .14 of Hieremie The Prophets preache falsely in my name I haue not sent them I haue not commaunded them nor I haue not spoken vnto thē but they prophecie vnto you false visions and naughtie diuinations to deceaue your heartes And likewise in the .27 Chapiter I haue not sent them saith the Lord God and they prophecie in my name falselye to thintent I should forsake you and that aswell you as your prophetes should perishe Item in the .29 Let not your Prophetes seduce you that are amongest you nor your Southsayers and doo not marke the dreames that ye dreame for they doo prophecie falselye vnto you in my name seing that I haue not sent them saith the Lorde etc. So that although it wer true that God hath sent you as it is false we might with a iust cause pretend an excuse of ignorance and to saye with great assuraunce that that Abymilech sayde vnto God where he threatned that he woulde kill him because he kepte Abrahams wife O Lorde God sayde he would you kill a poore simple nation Shall it be sayde that we beleue all those that fayne to come in youre name haue not you commaunded vs by the Apostle That we shoulde not beleue euery spirite and that the Angel of darknes doth transfourme himselfe into an Angell of light Haue not you commaunded to be written that we should beware which way we take that suche a waye doth seeme good the whiche notwithstanding doeth leade vnto damnation and perdition If any saying that he is our princes seruant should come to demaunde a summe of mony in his masters name and that he had neither his hand nor his seale to warrant his demaunde would not we sende him awaye like a false merchant fering that he wold deceaue vs then with greater reason ought we to feare the committing of our faith and the hope of our saluation into their hands whom we know not nor that cannot shewe any miracles to confirme their preaching as the Apostles did Qui confirmabant sermonem sequentibus signis That is which did confyrme their preaching with Signes or miracles folowing why do not they sai as he said whose successors they professe to be the signs of my commission Apostleship haue bene accomplished among you with signes and miracles 2. Cor. 12. ¶ The .18 Chapter YOu do aunswere vs as that Iewes were answered by Christe when they did demaund him to shew some Miracles The generation adulterous and peruerse doeth demaunde signes but no signe shal be geuen them etc. But this comparison can not be applyed vnto vs for we are not so hard of beliefe as the Iewes nor you such faithful messengers of God as Christ was of whom the Iewes did demaunde some signes of obstinate hatred after thei had sene so many lame healed so many blinde receiue their sight so many deafe heare so many dispossest that had spirites but as for you we haue sene your cōmission not to haue extended so far as to restore a flie to life againe or to heale a lame goose although that greater matters are required to confirme so straunge and so new a reformed Gospel These wordes doo make you mad crying out and preching in euery place that your Churche ought not to be called newe but rather that it is olde and Apostolicall and that your doctrine is the verye same that S. Peter and S. Paule did preache And to drawe the simple people to beleue that that you saye you doo declare your faith saying that you doo beleue doo preach that there is one God in Trinitie of persons and the second which is our Sauiour became manne from the wombe of the virgin and that he suffered and did rise againe and to be briefe you shewe that you haue profited in your religion for you haue bene but fortie yeeres which is the time since it began in learning the great Creede the Pater noster the whiche you coulde not learne in a thousande and fyue hundred of ours But in all this you say nothing to the purpose for we doo not demaunde of you whether you can well your Cathechisme the which you hauing learned of vs you teache to others And as Sampson saide Iud. 15. If you had not labored with my Cowe ye would neuer haue hit my Riddle That is to sai That if that our Churche had not nursed or taught you which are her rebellious children you woulde haue knowen nothing for it is of our Churche that you haue learned the principles of your faith She is the Cowe that hath nourished Caluin in a Chanonrie of Noyon Theodore de Bexa in the Priorie of Louinnam harde by Paris and consequentlye all the other ministers which haue learned all that they knowe at the Conuent of S. Fraunces S. Dominick S. Augustine and of S. Bennet where ye were nourished spirituallye as touching your doctrine and temporally as touching the mainteyning of your studie at the charge of that Church against the which ye doo nowe so striue as the Camels whiche sometime rewarde their masters for their good keeping with yerking biting so that coulor it howe you list ye cannot denye but that ye set forth newe deuises For althogh it is so that your heresyes which to please the eares of the vnlearned ye call the refourmed Gospel and pure worde of God haue bene in times past yet they were buried in the very depth of hell and you haue raised them againe cloked with newe coulors But although it were so that your doctrine were not new but very olde yet ought not you to be more priuiledged thē Moyses and the Prophetes whose simple and playne wordes the world would not beleue although they preached no new doctrine no more then you say that you doo Moyses did shewe manye miracles in Egipt and why was the principall cause to deliuer the children of Israell out of the captiuitie of Pharao No surelye for to what purpose I pray you shuld God shewe such great power and might against a simple worme of earth Is it like to be true that he shoulde moue the whole heauens with suche great darkenes to send so many notable plages to bring him to yeld which had confessed his wickednes for the torment that he suffered with the flyes the frogges Grashoppers Surely no he himselfe doth