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cause_n justice_n king_n parliament_n 2,583 5 6.8838 4 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A41388 Firmianus and Dubitantius, or, Certain dialogues concerning atheism, infidelity, popery, and other heresies and schisme's that trouble the peace of the church and are destructive of primitive piety written in a plain and easie method for the satisfaction of doubting Christians / by Tho. Good. Good, Thomas, 1609-1678. 1674 (1674) Wing G1029; ESTC R23950 83,883 174

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justice_n of_o their_o cause_n be_v guilty_a before_o god_n os_fw-la treason_n murder_n and_o rebellion_n dub._n this_o censure_n be_v very_o severe_a and_o yet_o i_o can_v tell_v what_o to_o reply_v against_o it_o many_o well_o mean_v people_n observe_v certain_a abuse_n in_o church_n and_o commonwealth_n much_o desire_v a_o reformation_n of_o they_o and_o promise_v to_o themselves_o great_a thing_n from_o the_o long_a parliament_n whereupon_o such_o be_v the_o brutish_a inclination_n of_o earnest_a desire_n and_o great_a expectation_n in_o the_o mind_n of_o man_n that_o be_v of_o short_a discourse_n that_o these_o poor_a inconsiderable_a person_n be_v engage_v against_o king_n and_o country_n before_o they_o have_v well_o weigh_v that_o good_a intention_n can_v justify_v unlawful_a action_n that_o god_n have_v no_o need_n of_o the_o sinner_n that_o we_o must_v not_o do_v evil_a that_o good_a may_v come_v thereon_o but_o i_o be_o persuade_v that_o these_o seduce_a man_n do_v see_v their_o former_a error_n and_o be_v ●ruly_o penitent_a abominate_v from_o their_o heart_n all_o treason_n and_o rebellion_n against_o their_o dread_a sovereign_n and_o for_o the_o future_a will_v keep_v themselves_o from_o such_o unchristian_a practice_n firm._n i_o much_o commend_v you_o for_o your_o chari●y_n and_o for_o those_o that_o have_v their_o hand_n in_o that_o grand_a rebellion_n acd_a be_v no●_n true_o penitent_a my_o hearty_a prayer_n be_v that_o the_o lord_n will_v be_v merciful_a unto_o they_o and_o bless_v they_o and_o show_v they_o the_o light_n of_o his_o countenance_n my_o severe_a censure_n as_o you_o be_v p●●ased_v ●o_o ●ail_v it_o be_v never_o intend_v against_o such_o but_o we_o see_v very_o few_o that_o have_v manifest_v any_o signal_n token_n of_o repentance_n for_o their_o lift_n up_o their_o hand_n against_o the_o lord_n be_v anoint_v rather_o we_o may_v fear_v they_o will_v commit_v the_o same_o wickedness_n against_o his_o majesty_n that_o now_o sway_v the_o royal_a sceptre_n if_o they_o hide_v a_o fair_a opportunity_n disobedience_n be_v a_o long_a step_n to_o rebellion_n and_o be_v it_o not_o evident_a that_o our_o present_a nonconformist_n be_v more_o disobedient_a more_o refractory_a against_o his_o majesty_n law_n ecclesiastical_a than_o those_o that_o live_v before_o the_o late_a war_n who_o though_o they_o be_v nonconformist_n yet_o be_v they_o not_o separatist_n brownist_n as_o our_o present_a nonconformist_n for_o the_o most_o part_n be_v some_o of_o they_o mr._n as_o ball_n in_o his_o trial_n of_o the_o ground_n of_o separation_n and_o other_o smart_o wri●ng_v against_o such_o fanatic_n and_o true_o be_v there_o not_o a_o judicial_a blindness_n upon_o these_o man_n they_o may_v see_v by_o a_o wonderful_a providence_n the_o lord_n do_v not_o own_v they_o in_o their_o rebellious_a undertake_n how_o strange_o do_v their_o numerous_a and_o potent_a army_n dwindle_v into_o no_o thing_n ho●_n miraculous_o be_v our_o gracious_a sovereign_n preserve_v against_o all_o their_o treasonable_a attempt_n and_o bring_v to_o the_o throne_n of_o his_o father_n with_o the_o great_a honour_n most_o general_a expression_n of_o love_n and_o rejoice_v that_o ever_o any_o prince_n receive_v from_o ●oyal_a subject_n and_o all_o this_o without_o the_o spill_n of_o one_o drop_n of_o blood_n the_o lord_n set_v it_o upon_o the_o heart_n of_o king_n and_o people_n to_o keep_v this_o signal_n dispensation_n of_o his_o providence_n in_o perpetual_a remembrance_n &_o not_o to_o ruin_v themselves_o by_o atheism_n irreligion_n profaneness_n or_o any_o enormous_a wickedness_n for_o which_o the_o wrath_n of_o god_n have_v b●en_o pou●ed_v out_o in_o full_a viol_n upon_o wicked_a king_n and_o ungodly_a people_n as_o sacred_a and_o other_o ●i●●ories_n do_v s●sficiently_o manifest_v dub._n it_o may_v be_v fear_v that_o there_o be_v discontent_v person_n who_o be_v like_o wrangle_a gamester_n that_o have_v a_o bad_a game_n deal_v they_o 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their_o life_n and_o conversation_n very_o scandalous_a the_o great_a nonconformist_n of_o all_o other_o not_o true_a to_o our_o church_n and_o her_o injunction_n in_o the_o most_o weighty_a matter_n place_v all_o their_o conformity_n in_o outward_a ceremony_n and_o neglect_v what_o be_v most_o necessary_a for_o their_o own_o salvation_n and_o of_o those_o poor_a soul_n which_o be_v commit_v to_o their_o charge_n which_o be_v in_o great_a danger_n to_o perish_v through_o the_o ignorance_n negligence_n and_o evil_a example_n of_o such_o blind_a guide_v dub._n but_o be_v not_o the_o poverty_n of_o many_o of_o they_o and_o the_o poor_a pittance_n allot_v for_o their_o subsistence_n as_o great_a a_o cause_n of_o their_o contempt_n as_o any_o firm._n it_o be_v very_o true_a and_o it_o be_v a_o work_n worthy_a of_o the_o defendor_n of_o the_o faith_n and_o a_o religious_a parliament_n to_o redress_v this_o very_a great_a grievance_n by_o unite_n little_a church_n by_o find_v out_o some_o 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prelatical_a presbyte●ians_n all_o party_n can_v swallow_v down_o such_o morsel_n without_o any_o scruple_n but_o let_v they_o take_v heed_n they_o prove_v not_o like_o that_o little_a book_n rev._n 10.9_o sweet_a to_o the_o palate_n but_o bitter_a in_o the_o belly_n dub._n indeed_o i_o have_v hear_v that_o the_o pope_n of_o rome_n be_v the_o first_o and_o chief_a author_n of_o impropriation_n and_o that_o they_o do_v alienate_v tithe_n and_o glebe_n from_o their_o respect_a parish_n church_n for_o the_o maintenance_n of_o abbey_n priory_n nunnery_n etc._n etc._n firm._n it_o be_v ve●y_o certain_a that_o these_o alienation_n be_v make_v by_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n for_o those_o use_n and_o at_o the_o demolish_n of_o those_o place_n those_o impropriate_a tithe_n and_o church_n land_n be_v either_o give_v or_o sell_v to_o courtier_n and_o other_o of_o the_o nobility_n and_o gentry_n which_o have_v prove_v the_o ruin_n of_o many_o ancient_a and_o flourish_a family_n and_o a_o very_a great_a hindrance_n to_o the_o growth_n of_o religion_n for_o want_n of_o a_o able_a ministry_n in_o many_o poor_a parish_n where_o according_a to_o the_o old_a say_v scandalous_a live_n have_v make_v a_o scandalous_a clergy_n and_o nothing_o will_v be_v a_o more_o effectual_a redress_n of_o this_o grievance_n than_o as_o be_v say_v before_o the_o unite_n of_o little_a parish_n the_o restore_n of_o impropriate_a tithe_n and_o glebe_n to_o the_o church_n together_o with_o a_o diligent_a inspection_n of_o the_o bishop_n into_o the_o life_n and_o learning_n of_o all_o those_o who_o they_o shall_v either_o ordain_v or_o institute_n dub._n i_o be_o full_o persuade_v that_o the_o pay_v of_o tithe_n be_v no_o oppression_n or_o injury_n to_o any_o man_n but_o the_o independent_o and_o other_o sectary_n imagine_v that_o tithe_n be_v a_o levitical_a maintenance_n and_o therefore_o to_o be_v abrogate_a under_o the_o gospel_n that_o minister_n now_o be_v to_o be_v maintain_v by_o a_o voluntary_a contribution_n or_o at_o best_a to_o have_v a_o set_a stipend_n firm._n that_o tithe_n receive_v not_o their_o beginning_n from_o the_o levitical_a law_n be_v evident_a to_o any_o unbyased_a judgement_n from_o the_o example_n of_o abraham_n pay_v they_o to_o melchisedeck_v of_o jacob_n vow_v to_o give_v the_o ten_o of_o all_o that_o the_o lord_n shall_v bless_v he_o with_o from_o the_o apostle_n large_a discourse_n about_o abraham_n and_o melchisedeck_v heb._n 7._o by_o all_o which_o it_o be_v evident_a that_o tithe_n have_v not_o their_o original_a from_o the_o levitical_a ●aw_v and_o be_v not_o at_o first_o affix_v to_o the_o ar●nical_a but_o to_o the_o melchisedechian_a priesthood_n as_o to_o that_o of_o stipend_n and_o voluntary_a contribution_n it_o be_v a_o mere_a plot_n of_o the_o devil_n and_o popish_a emissary_n to_o render_v minister_n contemptible_a by_o ●aking_v they_o stipendiaries_n or_o eleemosynary_n direct_o contrary_a to_o what_o st._n paul_n have_v lay_v down_o the_o elder_n that_o rule_v well_o be_v worthy_a of_o double_a honour_n which_o sufficient_o evince_v that_o they_o ought_v to_o have_v a_o honourable_a maintenance_n and_o not_o to_o depend_v upon_o the_o cold_a and_o freeze_a charity_n of_o the_o people_n 9_o i_o be_o sure_a st._n paul_n find_v his_o corinthian_n very_o backward_o to_o supply_v the_o minister_n necessity_n in_o better_a time_n than_o these_o we_o live_v in_o like_o so_o many_o stipendary_n or_o alms-man_n by_o which_o they_o will_v be_v force●_n to_o preach_v placentia_fw-la or_o starve_v and_o suit_v their_o doctrine_n to_o the_o humour_n of_o every_o mechanic_n what_o a_o strange_a piece_n of_o nonsense_n be_v it_o that_o among_o our_o congregational_a man_n the_o minister_n shall_v be_v the_o only_a poor_a dependent_a it_o be_v most_o certain_a and_o evident_a to_o all_o that_o can_v make_v use_n of_o their_o reason_n that_o god_n way_n for_o the_o minister_n maintenance_n be_v the_o best_a which_o both_o before_o and_o under_o the_o law_n give_v by_o moses_n be_v by_o tithe_n at_o least_o by_o god_n approve_v of_o ab●aham's_n pay_v they_o to_o melchisedeck_v '_o ●_z strong_o insinuate_v that_o the_o great_a lord_n of_o heaven_n and_o earth_n will_v in_o after_o time_n order_n and_o appoint_v that_o tithe_n shall_v be_v the_o maintenance_n for_o the_o priest_n and_o levite_n which_o have_v continue_v for_o many_o hundred_o of_o year_n under_o the_o gospel_n and_o there_o be_v many_o fair_a proof_n from_o holy_a scripture_n that_o they_o be_v due_a by_o divine_a right_n they_o be_v establish_v by_o civil_a and_o ecclesiastical_a law_n be_v the_o most_o convenient_a and_o rational_a way_n for_o the_o minister_n support_v who_o by_o this_o mean_n when_o the_o earth_n bring_v forth_o plentiful_o share_v with_o the_o people_n in_o that_o blessing_n when_o less_o fruitful_o as_o in_o time_n of_o scarcity_n suffer_v with_o they_o in_o this_o calamity_n and_o thus_o partake_v with_o they_o in_o blessing_n and_o affliction_n will_v be_v the_o fit_a to_o stir_v they_o up_o thankfulness_n for_o the_o one_o and_o to_o press_v upon_o they_o the_o great_a duty_n of_o patience_n and_o humiliation_n under_o the_o other_o dub._n i_o do_v not_o doubt_v of_o the_o lawfulness_n and_o reasonableness_n of_o tithe_n before_o we_o enter_v upon_o this_o discourse_n but_o now_o there_o be_v not_o the_o least_o scruple_n in_o i_o concern_v they_o firm._n therefore_o let_v we_o now_o proceed_v to_o another_o gross_a error_n maintain_v by_o the_o independent_o and_o other_o sectary_n about_o the_o elect_n of_o gift_a brethren_n into_o the_o office_n of_o minister_n dub._n that_o any_o gift_a brother_n any_o one_o that_o persuade_v himself_o that_o he_o have_v the_o spirit_n and_o through_o a_o strong_a imagination_n conceive_v himself_o fit_a to_o speak_v in_o the_o congregation_n may_v without_o any_o far_a trial_n or_o lawful_a call_v take_v upon_o he_o the_o office_n of_o public_a preach_a and_o minister_a in_o the_o congregation_n which_o be_v the_o most_o sacred_a and_o weighty_a of_o of_o all_o other_o this_o be_v nothing_o less_o than_o a_o presumptuous_a usrupe_a of_o the_o priest_n office_n this_o i_o know_v to_o be_v the_o opinion_n and_o practice_n of_o independent_o and_o other_o sectareis_n let_v i_o have_v your_o judgement_n of_o it_o firm._n that_o you_o shall_v most_o willing_o and_o herein_o my_o judgement_n be_v that_o this_o be_v one_o of_o the_o most_o wild_a and_o fanatic_a opinion_n that_o ever_o enter_v into_o the_o mind_n of_o man_n that_o it_o open_v a_o wide_a gap_n to_o all_o schism_n and_o heresy_n a_o certain_a cause_n of_o all_o manner_n of_o disorder_n and_o confusion_n in_o the_o church_n upon_o this_o account_n priest_n and_o jesuit_n and_o all_o manner_n of_o sectary_n have_v have_v so_o fair_a a_o opportunity_n to_o vent_v their_o poisonous_a tenant_n in_o the●●_n independent_a congregation_n dub._n i_o be_o full_o
because_o of_o personal_a abuse_n in_o the_o governor_n or_o under_o officer_n where_o the_o government_n in_o '_o its_o constitution_n be_v not_o faulty_a neither_o the_o term_n of_o communion_n intolerable_a but_o be_v there_o any_o reason_n that_o nonconformist_n shall_v be_v more_o sharp_o deal_v with_o then_o debauch_v profane_a person_n firm._n if_o we_o shall_v compare_v schism_n separation_n nonconformity_n with_o profaneness_n it_o will_v not_o be_v easy_a to_o say_v which_o be_v the_o great_a or_o which_o be_v the_o least_o sin_n the_o first_o may_v be_v majoris_fw-la culpae_fw-la the_o other_o majoris_fw-la infamiae_fw-la as_o aquinas_n right_o judge_v 1.2_o q._n 73._o a._n 5._o of_o carnal_a and_o spiritual_a sin_n those_o as_o pride_n and_o malice_n be_v great_a sin_n but_o these_o as_o drunkenness_n fornication_n be_v more_o scandalous_a but_o to_o wave_v the_o comparison_n and_o to_o give_v you_o free_o my_o own_o sentiment_n in_o this_o particular_a i_o do_v conceive_v that_o debauchery_n and_o profaneness_n aught_o to_o be_v more_o severe_o punish_v then_o negative_a separation_n and_o simple_a nonconformity_n my_o reason_n be_v these_o 1._o every_o prudent_a parent_n will_v be_v mo●e_n severe_a against_o a_o wicked_a child_n that_o continue_v under_o his_o roof_n profess_v obedience_n a●d_a subjection_n then_o against_o that_o child_n which_o have_v utter_o forsake_v his_o father_n and_o utter_o abandon_v his_o house_n and_o family_n 2._o the_o sin_n of_o pro●●ness_n and_o debauchery_n be_v wilful_a for_o drunkard_n and_o profane_a person_n do_v not_o ple●d_a ignorance_n and_o weakness_n be_v o●●_n more_o malignant_a nature_n than_o sin_n of_o ignoranc●_n though_o it_o be_v such_o a_o ignorance_n which_o be_v not_o all_o together_o invincible_a but_o contract_v by_o pride_n pevishness_n interest_n or_o prejudice_n under_o which_o many_o separatist_n and_o nonconformist_n be_v in_o bondage_n and_o captivity_n 3._o the_o life_n and_o conversation_n o●_n debauch_v and_o profane_a person_n who_o go_v under_o the_o name_n of_o protestant_n and_o member_n of_o our_o church_n though_o intruth_o they_o be_v not_o but_o rather_o limb_n of_o satan_n be_v the_o great_a reproach_n and_o scandal_n to_o it_o these_o be_v the_o man_n that_o furnish_v shismaticks_n and_o nonconformist_n with_o their_o best_a argument_n which_o they_o urge_v against_o we_o for_o what_o they_o object_n against_o our_o church_n government_n liturgy_n or_o ceremony_n be_v ●or_a the_o most_o part_n very_o frivolous_a and_o there_o be_v no_o quaker_n anabaptist_n independent_o but_o m●kes_v the_o profaneness_n of_o the_o episcopal_a party_n the_o chief_a reason_n and_o ground_n of_o his_o separation_n dub._n this_o i_o confess_v to_o be_v true_a from_o my_o own_o experience_n nothing_o wrought_v so_o much_o upon_o i_o to_o forsake_v the_o church_n of_o england_n as_o the_o wicked_a and_o ungodly_a life_n of_o those_o which_o she_o receive_v into_o her_o communion_n firm._n that_o be_v your_o error_n for_o you_o can_v say_v th●t_o she_o receive_v any_o into_o her_o communion_n who_o by_o her_o rubric_n and_o canon_n she_o ●xcludes_v and_o although_o through_o the_o laziness_n and_o connivance_n of_o church_n officer_n or_o governor_n or_o both_o many_o a_o ungodly_a person_n receive_v the_o sacament_n yet_o there_o be_v no_o just_a ground_n for_o a_o separation_n from_o the_o church_n which_o teach_v nothing_o but_o what_o be_v catholic_n and_o apostolical_a only_o i_o confess_v tha●_n in_o the_o exercise_n of_o discipline_n she_o come_v short_a of_o the_o primitive_a severity_n against_o obstinate_a sinner_n yet_o the_o present_a canon_n be_v so_o strict_a that_o if_o they_o be_v due_o observe_v no_o open_o wicked_a or_o ungodly_a person_n shall_v be_v admit_v to_o the_o communion_n which_o will_v be_v a_o great_a satisfaction_n i_o be_o persuade_v to_o those_o that_o now_o separate_v from_o we_o dub._n but_o see_v the_o primitive_a discipline_n have_v be_v so_o long_a time_n wish_v for_o above_o a_o hundred_o year_n since_o as_o appear_v by_o the_o rubric_n before_o the_o commination_n how_o come_v it_o to_o pass_v that_o it_o be_v not_o restore_v shall_v we_o be_v still_o wish_v and_o never_o act_v or_o do_v firm._n why_o it_o have_v not_o be_v restore_v i_o know_v no_o other_o reason_n that_o be_v give_v but_o this_o the_o time_n will_v not_o bear_v it_o why_o the_o ●●mes_n will_v not_o bear_v it_o i_o know_v not_o unless_o it_o be_v in_o respect_n of_o se●taries_n who_o cry_v down_o many_o ancient_a usage_n of_o the_o church_n which_o they_o do_v not_o understand_v for_o popery_n an●_n these_o man_n must_v not_o be_v offend_v lest_o they_o be_v drive_v to_o a_o utter_a hatred_n o●_n opposition_n to_o our_o church_n or_o else_o which_o be_v more_o probable_a such_o be_v the_o wickedness_n and_o profaneness_n of_o the_o time_n that_o they_o will_v not_o endure_v the_o primitive_a severity_n when_o will_v that_o time_n come_v that_o such_o strict_a discipline_n will_v be_v endure_v the_o church_n have_v be_v in_o expectation_n of_o it_o above_o this_o hundred_o year_n but_o still_o schism_n and_o sect_n profaneness_n and_o wickedness_n increase_v every_o day_n more_o and_o more_o no_o question_n the_o time_n as_o to_o sect_n and_o profaneness_n if_o that_o be_v a_o sufficient_a reason_n be_v much_o more_o unfit_a to_o bear_v the_o ancient_a discipline_n than_o they_o be_v when_o that_o wish_n be_v first_o make_v and_o the_o long_o it_o be_v disuse_v the_o more_o unfit_a they_o will_v be_v which_o i_o wish_v our_o prudent_a governor_n will_v take_v into_o their_o serious_a consideration_n dub._n certain_o a_o strict_a discipline_n impartial_o execute_v upon_o all_o transgressor_n of_o god_n holy_a law_n by_o sharp_a reproof_n severe_a admonition_n due_a suspensation_n from_o the_o sacrament_n excommunication_n penance_n according_a to_o the_o quality_n of_o the_o offence_n will_v give_v a_o great_a check_n to_o that_o impiety_n and_o wickedness_n which_o reign_v so_o much_o in_o our_o land_n and_o take_v away_o much_o of_o the_o scandal_n which_o be_v give_v by_o our_o mix_a communion_n at_o which_o block_n of_o offence_n many_o have_v stumble_v and_o fall_v out_o of_o our_o church_n into_o conventicle_n and_o separate_a congregation_n firm._n no_o question_n a_o strict_a discipline_n will_v do_v much_o towards_o a_o h●ppy_a reformation_n of_o manner_n in_o the_o episcopal_a party_n but_o as_o you_o have_v observe_v the_o great_a scandal_n that_o be_v take_v by_o the_o nonconformist_n at_o the_o profaneness_n and_o wickedness_n of_o that_o party_n so_o i_o must_v tell_v you_o that_o as_o great_a a_o scandal_n be_v give_v by_o they_o to_o those_o who_o conform_v to_o the_o church_n of_o england_n though_o their_o life_n and_o conversation_n be_v contrary_a to_o her_o law_n &_o canon_n they_o be_v no_o more_o member_n of_o our_o church_n than_o a_o glass_n eye_n or_o wooden_a leg_n be_v live_v part_n of_o a_o man_n body_n dub._n i_o do_v not_o see_v wherein_o the_o nonconformist_n whether_o presbyterian_o or_o independent_o have_v give_v any_o just_a occasion_n of_o scandal_n to_o any_o they_o be_v man_n that_o be_v very_o sober_a in_o their_o life_n and_o great_a professor_n of_o religion_n give_v much_o to_o family-duty_n to_o prayer_n to_o hear_v of_o sermon_n firm._n hinc_fw-la illae_fw-la lachrymae_fw-la here_o lie_v the_o scandal_n which_o m●kes_v religion_n stink_v in_o the_o nostril_n of_o profane_a and_o wicked_a man_n when_o they_o shall_v see_v that_o man_n profess_v holiness_n shall_v make_v no_o conscience_n of_o disobedience_n of_o perjury_n of_o rebellion_n against_o and_o at_o last_o of_o murder_v their_o liege_n sovereign_a a_o man_n upon_o who_o his_o most_o malicious_a and_o critical_a enemy_n can_v never_o charge_v any_o scanlous_a sin_n dub._n these_o indeed_o be_v very_o grievious_a sin_n and_o much_o to_o be_v lament_v but_o sure_o you_o can_v charge_v they_o upon_o the_o generality_n of_o theseman_n but_o only_o upon_o some_o ambitious_a hypocrite_n that_o make_v religion_n a_o stalking-horse_n to_o bring_v about_o their_o devilish_a design_n firm._n it_o be_v true_a that_o all_o the_o nonconformists_a in_o england_n be_v not_o in_o actual_a arm_n against_o the_o king_n neither_o do_v they_o sit_v in_o the_o high_a court_n of_o injustice_n upon_o he_o neither_o do_v they_o all_o as_o natural_a agent_n cut_v of_o his_o head_n but_o moral_o that_o be_v very_o sinful_o and_o wicked_o they_o have_v their_o hand_n stain_v with_o that_o royal_a blood_n for_o whosoever_o do_v abet_v these_o son_n of_o belial_n in_o their_o rebellion_n treason_n murder_n of_o their_o king_n and_o fellow_n subject_n either_o by_o consent_v to_o their_o villainy_n pray_v for_o their_o prosperity_n praise_v god_n for_o their_o victorious_a success_n or_o by_o assist_v they_o with_o their_o counsel_n advice_n free_a and_o voluntary_a contribution_n by_o write_v and_o preach_v up_o the_o