I say the wicked enimie of mankinde kepeth man in sinne continually but like as god graunteth forgiuenesse at the first to the repentaunt so doeth he also sharply punish those sinners which do continue obstinately without repentance in vice and sin For such men then as repent not vnfainedly and purpose to leade newe liues conceiue a false hope and boldenesse of the mercie of god And by this meanes that the Diuell setteth forth to men this boldnesse he bringeth this to passe that they liue on forth quietly and securely in vice and wickednesse and thinke little or nothing with themselues at any time of anye reformation or amendment And herein they despise the aboundance and riches of the bountifulnesse long suffering of god being ignoraunt that the goodnesse of god doth induce and lead vnto repentaunce The third cause is the custome of sinne which is in a manner made naturall in long continuance For like as it is harde for a maÌ„ to alter nature so custome if it be once rooted cannot easily bee plucked vp and expelled And therefore it is that learned men doe cal custome an other nature It is as a certaine wiseman saith such vices as we haue accustomed our selues to from our tender age cannot be without great difficultie weeded out afterward whiche thing though it be very certaine and true yet who seeth not how fondly fathers and mothers bring vp their children in cockering and pampering them from their infancie they bee giuen to none other thing but to pride delicious fare and vaine idle pleasures and pastimes VVhat prodigious apparel what vndeceÌ„t behauiour what boasting bragging quarelling and ietting vp and down what quassing feasting ryoting playing dauncing and dicesing with other lyke felowship that is among them â–ª it is a wonder to see And the parents can hereat reioyce and laugh with them and giue libertye to their children to doe what they liste neuer endeuouring to tame and salue their wilde appetites VVhat marueyle is it if they bee found thus naughtie and vicious when they come to their full yeares and mans state which haue of children bene trayned and entred with suche vice â–ª whereof they wil alwayes taste as Horace saith Quod nouatesta capit inueterata sapit The Vessel wil conserue the tast of lycour very long With which it was first seasoned and thereof smelful strong Euen so a child if that he be in tender yeares brought vp In Vertues schoole and nurtred wel wil smel of Vertues cup. If these men therfore at any time do fully purpose to repent the and reforme their liuing as when their conscience moueth them or the burthen of their sinne pricketh them yet custome hath so preuailed in them that they fal into worse and worse enormities and like mad men desire the reformation of their life Consider I pray thee good Reader what ioly yonkers and lusty brutes these wil be whé they shal come to be Citizens and intermedlers in matters of the common welth which by their fathers haue ben thus nicely and wantonly cockered vp neuer correcting nor chasting them for any faults and offences whatsoeuer VVhat other thing but this is the cause that there be now so many adulterers vnchast and lewde persons and ydle Rogues That we haue such plentie of Dicers Carders Mummers Dauncers â–ª And that such-wickednesse and filthy liuers are spred about in euery quarter but only naughty education and bringing vp wel then suche as impute this thing to the newe learning and preaching of the gospel are shamefully deceiued hauing no iudgement to iudge of things No no the newe learning and preaching of the Gospell is not the cause hereof but the naughty wanton and foolish bringing vp of children by their parents as I haue declared Also the slacknesse and vnreadinesse of the Magistrates to doe and execute their office is a great cause of this if they that vse tauernes playing and walking vp and downe the streates in time of a Sermon if disobedient children to their parents If Dicers MuÌ„mers ydellers dronkerds swearers Rogues Dauncers and such as haue spent and made away their liuing in belly cheare and vnthriftinesse were streightly punished surely ther shuld be lesse occasion giuen to offend also good men should not haue so great cause to complain of the maners of men of this Age. Therfore the magistrate must remeÌ„ber his office For he beareth not his sworde for naught for he is gods minister and a father of the couÌ„trey appointed of god to punish offenders but nowadayes by reason of libertie without punishmente and slackenesse of men in office which wink at their faults causeth so many idle players dauÌ„cers to come to the Gallows as there are for as the wise man saith who so prohibiteth not men so to offend when he may in a maner coÌ„maundeth them so to do for it is better to be a subiect to a magistrate vnder whom nothing is lawfull than vnder him to whome al things is lawful I feareme gretly therfore least the heathen més seueritie and streightnesse in punishing vice shal be a reproch to our magistrars and accuse them at the last day for their negligence and slacknesse herein It is not inough to punish sinne only but also to preuent and take away the causes thereof The fourth cause is Securitie in wealth and prosperitie which doth inebriate the mindes of men in suche sort that they neyther remember God nor constantlye purpose to reforme and amende their liues Therfore it was wel sayd of one that like as of prosperitie riot proceedeth Euen so of riot coÌ„meth both other coÌ„mon vices and also vngodlynesse and the neglecting of Gods word and commaundements And as Seneca afâ—iâ—meth that into great welth and prosperitie as it was continual dronkennesse men â—al into a certaine sweete and pleasaunt sleepe For as Publius saith Riches maketh him a foole whom she cockereth to much Paul also willeth that warning should be giuen to the rich men that they waxe not proude nor haue their affiance in vncertaine riches but in the liuing God to do good and be rich in good workes This Securitie is verily the mother of al viâ—e for by the same a man is made vnsensible so that in his consciéce he feeleth not the anger and wrath of god against sinne by Securitie mens mindes are brought into a dead sleepe that they be not pierced one whit with the feare of gods punishment or with the feare of death or of the last day to leaue off their vice and sin This securitie Christ artificiallye painteth out in Luke where mention is made of the rich man which when his land had enriched and made him welthy with a fruitful and plentiful croppe did not goe about to reforme his liuing and to repent nor to bestow almes vpon the poore but studied how to enlarge his barnes and to make more â—oome for his corne and sayd Now
Minister onely c. As for the place of Ieremie you shall note that he goeth aboute to shewe the Iewes the right keeping of the Lawe For by naming the Sabboth day he comprehendeth the thing that is thereby signified for if they transgressed in the ceremonie they must needes be culpable of the rest which is meditating the spiritual Sabboth or rest hearing of Gods worde and resting from worldly trauels And doth also declare that by the breaking of this one coÌ„maundement he maketh them transgressors of the whole lawe forasmuch as the first and seconde table are therein contayned that is as I haue sayde before fayth towardes God and charitie towardes our neyghbors and not for our owne fantasie gaine and pleasure we shoulde go about our owne businesse and leaue our duty towards God and giue our selues to al maner ydlenesse and Ethnicall sportes and pastimes as is nowe vsed too muche amongst vs That day is most holy in the which we must apply and giue our selues vnto holy workes and spirituall meditations For if we doe but rest in the Sabboth day from the works of the bodie then do we take that like rest as beasts do and not as the faithfull doe Saint Hierome to this sayth Non sufficit à malis esse otiosum si quu fuerit à bonis otiosus It is not ynough for man to rest and cease from euil things if a man be ydle from good things Likewise Saint Augustine sayth Quod in otio non debet esse iners vacatio sed aus inquisitio veritatis aut inuentio that is In ydlenesse sluggish rest ought to be away and when he is at rest there ought to be either inquisitioÌ„ of the truth or inuention of the same YOVTH What doth this worde Sabboth signifie AGE It signifieth in Hebrue quietnesse or rest YOVTH Howe many Sabboths are there AGE Three The first is corporall to cease from our bodily labours Seconde is spirituall to cease from our sinne Thirde is heauenly that is after this our pilgrimage and ende of our life we shall keepe our Sabboth and rest in heauen with Iesus Christ for euer and euer YOVTH You haue throughlye satisfied me in this point I thank you good Father for it Yet I pray you let me vnderstand what Christ meaneth by saying in S. Mathewe that of euerye ydle worde that men shall speake they shall giue account thereof at the daye of iudgement AGE That is a sharpe saying and a true if we shall giue account for euery ydle worde O Lorde be mercifull to vs what shall we doe then for our ydle and sinnefull workes By these ydle wordes Saint Hierome vnderstandeth all that is spoken without profit to the hearers letting passe good and gracious talke and speake of friuolous vaine things full of scurrilitie and baudrie c. Maister Bullinger sayth Hereby is forbidden all lyes vanities and whatsoeuer springeth of the affections of the fleshe Maister Musculus sayeth That Christ hereby declareth that we shall not giue accountes to God onely for deedes but also for wicked wordes not onely for vaine wordes but for ydle words it for ydle wordes what for hurtfull wordes what for lyings what for slaunderings what for cursings what for leastings and mockings what for periuries shall be done hereafter to those at the daye of iudgement Wee see hereby that there is not a worde in our tongue but the Lorde knoweth them wholy altogither Not without great cause therefore did Dauid pray vnto the Lord that he would set a watch before his mouth to keepe the doore of his lippes Bicause sayeth Paule euill speakings corrupt good maners Saint Paule sayth that fornication and all vncleannesse or couetousnes must not be once named among vs as it becommeth Saints Neither filthinesse neither foolish talking neither â—easting which are things not comelye but rather giuing of thanks Let your speach be gracious alwayes poudred with salt He sayth also Let no corrupt communication proceede out of your mouthes but which is good to the vse of edifying that it may minister grace to the hearers In fine therefore he concludeth to the Colossians thus Whatsoeuer ye shall doe in worde or deede doe all in the name of the Lorde Iesus giuing thanks to God euen the father by him O quà m sanctum est os vnde semper coelestia erumpunt eloquia O sayeth Augustine howe holy is that mouth wherrout commeth alwayes heauenlye speaches Let them take heede therefore which speake what they list saying with the wicked in the Psalme With our tongue we will preuayle our lippes are our owne who is Lorde ouer vs But sayth the Prophet the Lorde will cut off all flattering lippes and the tongue that speaketh proud things Dauid asketh what the deceitfull tongue bringeth vnto himselfe or what doth it auayle him Salomon sayeth that life and death are in the power of the tongue and they that loue it shall eate the fruite thereof YOVTH Is it not lawfull then to vse any kinde of ieasting or mery talke when companies are gathered togither to make them merie withall AGE Yes so that your talke and ieasting be not to the disglorie of Gods name or hurt to your neighbour you maye For there are diuers examples in the Scriptures of pleasant talke which is also godlye as Eliah â—easted with Baals Prophetes saying Crie loude for he meaning Baall the Idoll is a God eyther he talketh or pursueth his enimies or is in his iourney or it may be that he sleepeth and must be awaked c. When honest iesting to good honest endes be vsed it is tollerable Therefore Paule sayeth not simplye Iâ—asting but addeth whiche are things not comely meaning ieasting that is full of scurrilitie and filthinesse YOVTH Well let this passe and let vs come againe to our talke that we had before which was that you wente aboute to driue me to labour for my liuing and that euerye man shoulde walke in his vocation to get his breade in the sweate of his face Well I tell you plaine Playes must be had and we will haue them say you to the contrarie what you lyst AGE Salomon sayth He that loueth pastimes shall be a poore man. c. Agayne he sayth By slothfulnesse the roofe of the house goeth to decay and by the ydlenesse of the handes the house droppeth through againe a diligent hande maketh riche but a slothfull hande maketh poore He that tilleth his lande shall bee satisfied with breade but he that followeth the ydle is destitute of defence c. YOVTH And it please you sir Christe biddeth vs not to bee carefull for our liues what we shall eate and drinke and sayeth that the Lillies of the fielde labour not neyther spinne yet Salomon was neuer arrayed like vnto them And also that the birdes doe not sowe reape nor carie into the barne c. We are bidden also not
the worthy deed of the famous Persian Prince Artaxer◠xes so much of euerie one commended I humblie obtest your friendlie countenance and by my strong bulwarke against the fuming freates and belching ires of saucie sicophants Diceplayers Dauncers Players which if you do I haue my whole desire and crōinuallie I wil poure out prayers vnto the Lord of heauen and earth to sende you in this earthlie mansion continual encrease of faith knowledge and zeale in the gospel of Christ Iesu with prosperitie and accesse of manie blessed and happie yeares with your good ladie Sarah And after this life neuer ceassing endlesse ioyes in the heauenly seniorie At Bristow Yours to vse in the Lord Iohn Northbrooke Preacher ¶ To the Christian and faithful Reader IF such men as wil be taken for Christians would flee abhorre so much the deedes of the Epicures Saduces gentle Reader as they pretéd to detest the name and profession of them verylye they would refraine and temper themselues fró wickednesse and mischiefe would vse and exercise vertuous godly life no lesse than they now liue obstinatly in vice and behaue themselues in al their doings both wickedly and vngodly And again they woulde none otherwise obserue and kepe the commaundements of almighty God than they now neither feare him nor dread him at all But vndoubtedly there is not one almost which doth so much abhorre the thing it selfe in his hart which thing may plainely appeare by our dayly conuersation our maners and al that euer we do as we eschew and flee the name For how can those men be assured in their consciences that soules are immortal which for the most part liue as brute beastes do Or that there be rewards reposed for the godly in heauen or punishment ordeyned for wicked mē in hel which do inno maner thing feare to trásgresse breake the cōmaundements of God and do fal headlong into al kinde of vice and enormities as though they did imagin that either god is but a iesting stocke and a sayned thing or the soules and bodies do dye both at once as Pope Iohn the two twentith held Now I beseech thee gentle Reader what man is there whome either the feare of Gods iustice doth withdraw from vice and sin or yet doth induce and bring in minde to reforme and amende his life wherin thou mayest iustly lament and bewaile the folly state of men and much wonder at their blindnesse or rather madnesse which in such shortnesse vncertainty of life do so behaue themselues that they haue no mind of any reformation or amēdment of our life when we bee croked for olde age and haue then fearsely one day to liue far off is it that we go about or intēd that thing when we be yonkers and in our flourishing age VVhen I remember with my selfe that such is the follie of men or madnesse rather as I may wel cal it in deferring the reformatiō of their life and manners maketh me sorowful It is a world to see and to behold the wicked people how they wrest and turne the names of good things vnto the names of vices As if a gentleman haue in him any humble behauiour thê the Roysters cal such a one by the name of a Loute a Clinchpoup or one that knoweth no fashions if a man talke godly and wisely the worldlings deride it and say the yong Fox preacheth beware your Geese and of a yong saint groweth an old deuil if a man will not dice and play then he is a nigard and a miser and no good fellow if he be no dauncer he is a foole and a blockhead c. If a man be a Royster knoweth how to fight his fight then he is called by the name of honesty if he can kil a man dare rob vpon the high way he is called a tall man and a valiát man of his hands if he can Dice playe and daunce hee is named a proper and a syne nimble man if he wil loyter and liue idlely vpon other mens labours sit al day and night at Cards and Dice he is named a good companion and a shopfellow if he can sweare and stare they say he hath a stout courage If he be a whoremaister they say he is an amorous louer and Venus byrde it is the course of youth he wil leaue it when he is olde c. Vpon these people wil fal that woe and curse that Esay the prophet doth pronounce saying wo vnto them that speake good of euil and euil of good which put dronkennesse for light and light for dronkenesse that put bitter for swete sweto for sowre Salust also speaketh of them saying I am pridem equidem ver a rerum vocabula amisimus quia bona aliena largire liberalitas malarum yerum audatia fortitudu vocatur that is to saye Now of late dayes we haue lost the true names of things bycause the giuing away of other mens goods is called liberalitie vnshame fastnesse in noughtie things is called high or gentle coutage VVhat is a man now a dayes if he know not fashions and how to weare his apparel after the best fashion to kepe company to become Mummer Diceplayers and to play their twentie forty or 100. li. at Cards Dice c. Post Cente Gleke or such other games if he cannot thus do he is called a myser a wretch a lobbe a cloune and one that knoweth no felowship nor fashions and lesse honesty And by such kinde of playes many of them are broughte into great miserie and penurye And there are fyue causes hereof as Iiudge specially among al the rest First is vnbeliefe for if we supposed not that those things were fables which are mentioned in the scriptures euery where of the last day of iudgement and of the voyce of the Archangell and of the trump of God and of the throne of Gods seate wherat al mé must stand of the punishment of the wicked of the euerlasting and blessed life which the godly after this miserable life shal enjoy of the resurrection of the bodies soules eyther to be partakers togither of certaine ioye or else of certaine paine and also shall giue his accompt of al things which he hath done either intended by thought saide or done and how he hath vsed gods giftes and creatures towards his needy members c. VVithout al doubt question they would not liue thus ydlely naughtily as they do The second cause is the boldnesse to sinne vpon gods mercie this boldnesse is great in very deede but yet it is such as they may well ynough deceiue thēselues withal For of boldnesse they haue no sure trial at al. So Salomon saith say not the mercie of God is great he wil forgiue me my manifold sinnes for mercy and wrath came from him and his indignation commeth downe vpon sinners c. with this boldnesse
my soule thou hast a great deale layd vp for thee which wil last thee for many yeares now therfore take thy rest eate drinke and be of good cheare But in this Securitie what heard he of god thou foole this night thy soule shal be také away c. markest thou not how death coÌ„meth sodainly vpó him thinking to haue had al the cómodities pleasures of the world as ease rest delicious fare pastimes delectations and safegard of al his goods For this cause then Paule commaundeth vs to awake and bee in a readinesse at al times against the comming of the lord Christ our Sauiour also saith waâ—ch and pray least ye enter into tentatioÌ„ againe take heed to your selues least at any time your heartes bee oppressed with surfeting and dronkennesse and cares of this life and least that day come on you at vnwares For as a snare shall it come onal thé that dwel on the face of the earth like as it befell and happened in the time of Noe whéal the world was drowned and in the time of Lot when Sodome was burned with fire from heauen so verily the last day shal come sodainely at the twinckling of an eye euen when men loke least for it These things might be faire examples and sufficient warnings for vs if wee were not more than senselesse The fift cause is the hope of long life Among many euilles naughty affections which folow the nature of man corrupted by sinne none bringeth greater inconuenience than the inordinate hope of long life as Cicero saith no man is so olde and aged that he perswadeth not himselfe that he may liue a whole yeare This is the cause why we defer the reformation of our liues and reméber not that we haue an account to make at the last day It is to be wondered that men do put of and defer such a great and weightie matter and loke no more of a thing which profiteth so much and is so necessarie vnto saluation The very heathen I feare me shal in the last iudgement be a reproch to vs Christians in that we are so slouthfull and haue almost minde at no time to repent and amend our liuings Pythagoras rule and custome was wheÌ„ he weÌ„t to take reste to recken and call to remembraunce what thing so euer he had said or done good or bâ—d the day before which Virgil speaking of a godlye and vertuous man painteth out to vs learnedly how he neuer slept til he called to remébráce al things that he did that day c. I can not let passe that which Seneca speaketh of this form and order Sextus saith hâ— at the euening ere he weÌ„t to rest accustomed to aske of his minde certain questions what ill and naughty condition hast thou this day amended what vice hast thou withstanded what art thou better now than when thou diddest arise And after he addeth this what better forme can there be than this to examine the whole day againe in this wise And this rule saint Paul giueth also saying let a man therfore examine himself c. if we would iudge our selues we should not be iudged But now of the contrarie let vs consider our exercises how we vse to recken our faultes and examine the whole day again at night ere we go to rest and slepe how are we occupied verily we kepe ioly cheare one with an other in banquetting surfeting and dronkennesse also we vse al the night long in ranging from town to town and from house to house with Mummeries and Maskes Diceplaying Carding and Dauncing hauing nothing lesse in our memories than the day of death for SalomoÌ„ byddeth vs remember our end and last day and theÌ„ we shal neuer do amisse but they remeÌ„ber it not therfore they do amisse The bereuiti of our life is compared in Scriptures vnto the smoke vapour grasse a flower shadow a span long to a weauers web to a post c. teaching here by that we should be alwayes preparing to die for that we know not what hour it wil come therfore as wise Virgins let vs prepare oyle readie in our lampes for doubtlesse the day of the lord is not farre off Dare we take our rest and boldely to sleape in these our wicked sinnes in which if any man should die as no man is sure that he shall liue the next morow folowing he were vtterly cast away condemned body soule but alas these things they remeÌ„ber not In such wise they flatter theÌ„selues with hope of longer lyfe fith with the which so many men be deceiued how childish are they or rather how do they dote which do perswade themselues that they be exempted out of the number of those as it were by some singular priuiledge and prerogatiue These are the chiefest causes that we liue so wickedly as we do in these dayes Take away therfore the causes the effectes wil easily be remedied And for the curing of three notable vices amoÌ„g all the reste I haue here made according to my small skill a Treatise against Diceplaying Dauncing and vayne playes or Enterluds Dialogue wise betwene Age Youth wherin thou shalt finde great profit and commoditie and how in al ages times and seasoÌ„s these wicked c detestable vices of ydlenesse Diceplaying Dauncing and vaine Enterludes hath bin abhorred detested of al nations and also among the Heathens to the great shame condemnation of Christians that vse no playe nor pastime nor any exercise more than Diceplaying Dauncing and Enterludes Now therfore friendly Reader I haue laboured for thy sake with my poore penne to bring forth this small volume that thou seest VVherin I haue to request and desire thy friendly acceptaunce of the same bycause it is a pledge and token of my good hart will to thee for which if thou canst afourde me thy good worde I aske no more it shal not be the last if God leÌ„d me life that thou shalt receiue of me As for Aristaâ—chus broode and Zoilus generation lurking loyterers Dicers Dauncers Enterlude Players frantike findefaults dispraysing and condemning â—uerye good endeuour I wey them not I am not the first though the simplest and rudest that their venemous tongs typped with the Mettal of infamy and slaunder haue torne in pieces vncharitably abused god forgiue theÌ„ Accept thou therfore I beseech the cutteous Reader this my trauel good meaning in the best part Thus I bid thee farewel From Henbury Iohn Northbrooke ¶ A Treatise against Idlenes Idle Pastimes and Playes YOVTH AGE GOD blesse you and well ouertaken good father Age. AGE And you also good sonne Youth YOVTH From whence came you nowe good father if I may be so bolde to presume of your curtesie to demaunde of you AGE I came from thence whereas you oughte to haue bene and resort vnto YOVTH What place is that I pray you declare to me AGE In good sooth it is that place whiche you
that Chapter you maye reade throughly wherein you shal finde most terrible plagues vpon those that are contemners and disobeyers of God and his worde In Samuell you may reade also that Saule was reproued for this fault and loste his kingdome for it Hath the Lorde saith Samuell as greate pleasure in burnt offrings and sacrifices as when the voyce of the Lorde is obeyed Behold to obey is better than sacrifices and to harken is better than the fat of Rammes Bicause thou hast cast away the worde of God therefore he hath cast away thee from being king Salomon sayth bicause I haue called and yee refused I haue stretched out my hande and none woulde regarde but ye haue despised all my counsels and wold none of my correction I will laugh at your destruction and mocke when feare commeth Then shall they call vpon mee but I will not annswere they shall seeke me earely but they shall not finde me bicause they hated knowledge and did not choose the feare of the Lorde they woulde none of my counsell Therefore shall they eate the fruite of their owne way and be filled with their owne deuises Againe he sayth He that turneth awaye his eare from hearing the law euen his praier shal be abhominable Reade Ieremie and see what plagues came vpon the people for their neglecting of Gods worde Ezechiell sayth that a booke was deliuered him against those that contemned and woulde not heare the worde of the Lorde and frame their liues aunswerable to it which was writteÌ„ within and without Lamentations mournings and wo. They that were called to the supper and refused to come had pronouÌ„ced against them that none of them which were bidden shall taste of his supper He sayeth also that the kingdome of God shall be taken from you and shall be giuen to a nation which shall bring fruites thereof Also you may perceiue by Christes weeping ouer Ierusalem when hee prophecied of their destruction for not comming to him when he called and for killing his Prophetes who were sent to call them to repentance howe wrathfull Gods indignation is against all such c. Uerye well did Saint Paul saye See that ye despise not him that speaketh for if they escaped not whiche refused him that spake on earth much more shall we not escape if we turne awaye from him that speaketh from heauen c. Chrysostome sayth Quanto naÌ„que maior gratia tanto amplior postea peccantibus poena The greater benefites we receyue at Gods handes and doe abuse them or not regarde them the greater punishment shall fall vppon them afterwarde YOVTH These sayings out of the Scriptures are terrible and pearce my heart and conscience very deepely AGE You knowe that the worde of God is a two edged sworde and entreth through sayth Saint Paule euen to the deuiding asunder of the soule and the spirite and of the ioyntes and the marie and is a discerner of the thoughts and ententes of the heart Whereby you see that it woundeth mortally the rebellious but in the elect it killeth the olde man that they should liue vnto God. YOVTH These paines and curses are terrible which maketh me to tremble for feare AGE Si horrescimus poenam horrescamus etiam causam poenae If we doe abhorre and feare the punishment let vs also abhorre and feare the cause of punishment which is sinne YOVTH I perceyue nowe that it is a greate sinne and they are in a great daunger that conteÌ„ptuously refuse to heare the word of God when it is preached AGE It is most true For as Augustine sayth Non minor erit reus qui verbum dei negligenter audierit quà m ille qui corpus Christi indignè sumit That is He is no lesse guiltie that negligently heareth the worde of God than he that eateth vnworthily the bodie of Christ. Saint Cyrill sayth If we doubt of them that he are the worde preached what shall we doe of them that doe neuer heare the worde preached at all YOVTH Will not ignorance excuse vs AGE Nothing lesse for it will rather accuse vs as Augustine sayth Ignorantia in eis qui intelligere noluerunt sine dubitatione peceatum est in eis autem qui non potuerunt poena peccati Ergo in vtriusque non est iusta excusatio sed iusta damnatio Ignorance in them that woulde not vnderstande without doubt it is sinne in them that coulde not vnderstande it is the punishment of sinne For in eyther of them there is no iuste excusation but iust damnation Therefore was it called the mother not of denotion as the Papistes terme it but of all mischiefe and vice But we maye saye of our aduersaries the Papistes as Ireneus sayde agaynst the Ualentinian heretikes Veritatis ignorantiam cognitionem vocant Ignorance of the truth and blindenesse they call knowledge YOVTH There are a number that persuade with themselues cleane contrary and think no offence lesse nay that is no offence at all to absent themselues from the Sermons and neuer scarce come to the Temple at prayer hauing no iuste but rather vnâ—ust occasions to followe their owne pleasures in whatsoeuer and yet boldly will say and affirme as I my selfe haue heard theÌ„ they are Gospellers and Protestantes and doe beleeue verye well in God and knoweth as much as the Preacher can or is able to say or teach them AGE Christ sayth Not euery one that sayth Lord Lord shall enter into his kingdome nor euerye one that can saye the Lords prayer the beliefe and the ten commandements is a good Protestant but they that doe the will of our heauenly father so the Iewes bragged that they had Abraham to their father and that they were not borne of fornication but that they hadde one father whiche is God yet Christ pronounceth that they are of their father the Deuill for his workes they did And amongst all the workes Christe speaketh of this sinnefull worke of Satan which was their bragging that they were Gods children and yet woulde not heare Gods worde But to those shall be sayd What art thou that takest my couenant in thy mouth and hatest to be reformed and cast my wordes behinde thee c. Although these men can saye well yet for that they shewe not obedience to their heauenlye father that sayeth This is my onely begotten sonne heare him He will destroy them with the hypocrites that professe they knowe God but by workes they denie him and are abhominable and disobedient and vnto euery good worke reprobate as Saint Paule sayth Hillarie speaketh of these men saying Multi sunt qui simulantes fidem non subditi sunt fidei sibique fidem ipsi potius constituunt quà m accipiunt that is There are many that counterfeyte faith and yet they are not subiect or obedient to the true faith these men doe rather prescribe to themselues a fayth than
to receiue the true faith and religion YOVTH They say that they beleeue well and haue the true faith notwithstanding AGE Hearke I praye you what Saint Cyprian sayeth to them Quomodo dicit se credere in Christum qui non facit quod Christus facere praecepit Howe can be say that he beleeueth in Christ that doth not that which Christe hath commaunded Whereby you may see howe wyde these people are from true religion It was well sayde of Saint Augustine Constat fidem stultam non solum minimè prodesse sed etiam obesse It is ' certayne that a foolishe fayth not onely doth no good but also hurteth Therefore if you and they repent not yee shall one daye feele the iust rewarde thereof when in your tormentes and endlesse paynes yee shall bee forced with the wicked in hell to crye and saye Wee haue erred from the waye of truthe and haue wearied our selues in the waye of wickednesse and destruction And wee haue gone throughe daungerous wayes but the waye of the Lorde wee haue not knowne What hath pryde done to vs or what profit hath the pompe of riches brought vs YOVTH I pray you what causes are there to moue and persuade vs that wee oughte to heare and reade Gods holye worde AGE There are foure principall causes YOVTH What are they AGE The first cause to moue vs to heare reade the word of God is the commandement of almightie God our heauenlye father which sayeth Ye shall walke after the Lorde your God and feare him and shall keepe his commaundementes and hearken vnto his voyce Againe the Lord thy God will rayse vp vnto thee a Prophete like vnto me from among you euen of thy brethren vnto him shalt thou hearken c. This is my welbeloued sonne heare him c. He that heareth you heareth me and he that despiseth you despiseth me c. The Scribes and Pharisies sit in Moses seate all therefore whatsoeuer they bid you obserue that obserue and doe c. If ye loue me keepe my commaundements c. Search the Scriptures for in them ye thinke to haue eternall life and they are they which testifie of me c. The seconde cause is the ende that we were created and redeemed for that is to learne to knowe God to honour him worship him glorifie him to feare him loue him and obey him as our God and father as Chrysostome sayth Omnia condita esse propter hominem hunc autem conditum esse propter deum hoc est ad agnoscendum glorificandum deum c. All things were ordeyned to be made for man man was ordeyned to bee made for God to the ende to know and glorifie god c. So Dauid sayd I shall not die but liue and declare the workes of the Lorde So Paule sayeth Glorifie God in your bodie and in your spirite for they are Gods. Againe Whatsoeuer ye doe doe all to the glorie of God. The thirde cause is our owne infirmities for that we are nothing we knowe nothing nor can perceyue any thing as of ourselues without the helpe of Gods spirit and the word of his promise Ireneus sayth Cùm impossibile esset sine deo discere deum per verbum docet Deus homines scire Deum When it was impossible to knowe God without God God by his worde teacheth men to knowe God. So Dauid sayeth that a yong man shall redresse his waye by ruling himselfe according to Gods worde His worde is a lanterne to our feete and a light to our paths c. The lawe of the Lord is perfect conuerting the soule the testimonie of the Lorde is sure and giueth wisedome vnto the simple the cōmaundements are pure giue light vnto the eyes by them is thy seruant made circumspect and in keeping of them there is great rewarde Saint Paule sayeth Whatsoeuer things are written afore time are written for our learning that we through pacience and comforte of the Scriptures might haue hope Againe The whole Scripture is giuen by inspiration of God and is profitable to teach to improue to correct and to instructe in righteousnesse that the man of God maye bee absolute being made perfect vnto all good workes That is sayeth Bruno it is profitable to teache them that are ignorant so reproue and conuince them that speake against the faith to correcte sinners to instruct those that are rude and simple Chrysostome also sayth Quicquid quaeritur ad salutem totum iam impletum est in Scripturis qui ignarus est inueniet ibi quod discat qui contumax est peccator inueniet futūri iudicij flagella quae timeat qui laborat inueniet ibi glorias promissiones vitae aeternae Whatsoeuer is sought for saluation is wholy conteyned fulfilled in the scriptures he that is ignorant shall finde there what he ought to learne he that is a stubborne and disobedient sinner shall finde there scourges of the iudgement to come which shall make him feare he that laboureth and is oppressed shall finde there promises and glorye of eternall life The fourth and last cause is the sharpe punishment that God pronounceth againste such as you haue hearde declared before when we talked of Gods curses and plagues Christ sayth himselfe this is the condemnation that light is come into the world and men loued darkenesse rather than light bicause their deedes were euill c. Thus you haue hearde the causes why we oughte to heare sermons preached by those that preach Christ truly and to reade the holy Scriptures YOVTH These causes are excellent and of great importance and of necessitie to be considered of all men AGE You say truly they are so yet for your better instruction I pray you aunswere me to these questions whiche I shall demaunde of you YOVTH I will if I be able AGE Why doth God erect his throne amongst vs YOVTH Bicause we shoulde feare him AGE Why doth he reueale his will vnto vs YOVTH Bicause we should obey him AGE Why doth he giue vs his light YOVTH Bicause we shoulde see to walke in his wayes AGE Why doth he deliuer vs out of troubles YOVTH Bicause we should be witnesses that he is gracious AGE Why doth he giue vs his worde YOVTH Bicause we should heare learne and know him AGE Why doth he call vs by his Preachers YOVTH Bicause we should repent and so come to him AGE Why doth he gyue vs his sacramentes YOVTH Bicause they are seales of his promise that we shuld not be forgetfull of the benefites purchased for vs by the precious bodie and bloud of our sauiour Iesus Christ. AGE Why doth God giue vs vnderstanding YOVTH Bicause we should acknowledge him AGE Why doth he giue vs a wyll YOVTH Bicause we shoulde loue him AGE Why doth he giue vs bodies YOVTH Bicause we shoulde serne him AGE Why doth he giue vs eares YOVTH Bicause
care and businesse Yea and this remember my sonne Youth that filthie lustes are chieflye nourished by excesse and ydlenesse for thereof is the fire brande kindled and thereof is the oyle poured in and ministred so abundantly as not without cause that learned father Peter Martyr sayd Quamuis autem otium alat alioqui multa mala nihil tamen aut facilius aut magis alit quà m lihidinem that is Although ydlenesse otherwise nourisheth many euils notwithstanding the nourisheth nothing more easie than sensualitie and vnlawfull lust of whoredome therfore was it sayde of that wittie Poet Quaeritur Aegisthus quare sit factus Adulter In promptu causa est desidiosus erat That is It is asked wherefore Egisthus was Adulter made The cause is playne and quickly knowne since he with sloth was cladde YOVTH I perceyue the blinde eateth manye a flie For as Christ sayth He that walketh in the darke knoweth not whither he goeth And Saint Paule sayde that hee knewe not lust had bene sinne except the Lawe had sayde Thou shalte not lust Even so may I say that I had not knowne that Idlenesse had bene such a detestable sinne as it is except God had opened this to me by the meanes of you Nor yet that Satan thereby vseth to seduce and bring vs from all vertue to vice from faith to infidelitie according as Ecclesiasticus sayth Idlenesse bringeth much euill And as the saying of olde hath bene Otia dant vitia AGE It is the waye and practise that Satan vseth to steale into our hearts that he may possesse vs as Christ sayth While man slept there came his enimie Satan and sowed tares amoÌ„g the wheate c. As we see in king Dauid when he was yong he exercised himselfe in preparing a house for the Lorde and sayde I will not enter into the tabernacle of mine house nor come vppon my bed nor suffer mine eyes to sleepe nor myne eye lyddes to slumber vntill I finde out a place for the Lorde an habitation for the mightie God of Iacob After when he began to be ydle it is sayde in the booke of Samuel that Dauid went not vppe with Ioab his Captaine but sent him and all his seruants with him against the children of Ammon to besiege Rabbath But sayth the text Dauid remained in Ierusalem and fell to lye ydelly vppon his bed at noone or euening tyde and rose vp and walked vppon the roofe of his pallace and from the roofe he saw Bethsheba Uriah the Hittites wife washing of hir selfe and she was beautifull to looke vpon c. and Dauid sent for hir and she came vnto him and he lay with hir and gate hir with childe c. By this example you maye see the daungerous falles that Gods children fall into by this detestable vice of ydlenesse And therefore that old saying by you alledged is moste true Otia dant vitia Idlenesse bringeth and gathereth wheresoeuer she entreth all maner vices and wicked sinnes Ambrose hath a prety apt similitude to set forth the nature of Satan vnto vs and also his sleightes and craftie practises to deceyue vs to the ende we thereby may the better auoyde his subtilties YOVTH I praye you good father Age declare it to mee that I may learne somewhat thereby to auoyde that wycked enimie AGE The similitude is of a Crabbe and of an Oyster as thus The Crab sayth Ambrose deliteth very much to eate of the meate of Oysters but for that they Oysters are so strongly and well fenced with two harde shelles which he cannot breake by strength therfore he wayteth diligently to bring the Oysters out of the water into the hote sunne Whiles the Oysters open with the sunne and with the ayre and winde the Crab presently putteth a little stone into the Oyster as he gapeth whereby hee cannot close or bring togither againe his shelles then afterwarde the Crab without daunger putteth in his clawes and deuoureth the flesh at his pleasure Euen so sayth he when men are giuen to ydlenesse and open their mindes vnto pleasures the Deuill commeth and casteth into our mindes and hearts filthie cogitations in such sort that our shell which before did defende vs cannot be drawne close togither againe then full easily doth he deuour vs cleane YOVTH I promise you this is a proper similie verye aptly applied by S. Ambrose yet I pray you let me a litle further trouble you about this matter of ydlenesse AGE It shall be no trouble to mee saye on in the name of God what you haue to demaunde and I will aunswere you as God shall giue me leaue and knowledge YOVTH You haue hertofore mightily beaten downe all ydlenesse affirming also that God detesteth it and yet by your pacience I doe reade in the Law that God himselfe commaundeth vs to be ydle saying in the fourth commandement The seuenth day is the Sabboth of the Lord thy God in it thou shalt doe no manner oâ— worke thou nor thy sonne nor thy daughter nor thy man seruant nor thy mayde nor thy beast nor the straunger that is within thy gates c. Whereby it appeareth that the Lord alloweth of ydlenesse c. AGE You must learne to distinguish this word Idlenesse as Saint Augustine teacheth you saying Est otium desidiae otium cogitationis that is There is ydlenesse of sitting still and there is ydlenesse of meditations Uerye well noted also was it of Brentius saying Est otium ignauum quo inertes parant se non ad negotia sed ad delicias voluptates Est otium hâ—nesâ—um neâ—essariuÌ„ quo boni viri reddunt sese aptiores ad negotia vocationes suas sectandas Tale otium non solum suasit sed mandauit Deus in lege dum instituit Sabbatum iuber in co non hominem tantum verumetiam iuuenta quiescere Otiemur non ad luxum quod impij ignaui solent sed ad pietatem c. That is There is a beastly and slothfull ydlenesse which ydle persons get to themselues not for labours but for pleasures and delites There is also an honest and a necessarie ydlenesse whereby good men are made more apte and ready to doe their labors and vocations wherevnto they are called This kinde of ydlenesse God doth not onely persuade but also commaundeth it in his lawe in that he appoynted the Sabboth day and commaunded that in it not onely manne shoulde rest but the beasts also Let vs then be ydle not for carnall pleasures as the wicked and vngodlye are wonte but for godlynesse and vertues sake c. Maister Bullinger also sayeth Sabbatum à Deo institutum est non propter otium per se. Otium enim Deus nuspiam per se approbat proinde otium Sabbati commendantur propter aliud nimirum propter diligens religionis studium ideò enim feriandum praecipitur à laboribus manurijs vt hoc totum tempus impendamus exercitio
shoulde bee like rather vnto one that readeth than vnto one that singeth Howbeit on the contrarye when hee considered howe at the beginning of hys conuersion he was inwardly moued with these songs in suche forte that for the zcale of pietie he burste for the into teares and for this cause he consented that Musicke shoulde be retayned in the Church but yet in suche manner that he sayde bee was readie to chaunge his sentence if a better reason coulde bee assigned And he addeth that those doe sinne deadlye as they were wont to speake whiche giue greater heede vnto Musicke than vnto the wordes of god Saint Hierome and also Saint Gregorie say Non vox sed votum non cordula Musica sed cor Non clamans sed amans cantat in aure Dei The voice though it crie neuer so cleare The Lorde delights not for to heare Nor string of Musicke very sweete Except the heart conioyne and meete Franciscus Petrarcha declareth that Athanasius did vtterlye forbid singing to be vsed in the Church at seruice time bicause sayth he he woulde put away all lightnesse and vanitie which by the reason of singing doth oft times arise in the myndes bothe of the singers and hearers Gregorie also sayth Plerunque vt in sacro ministerio dum blanda vox quaeritur congrua vita negligatur Whyles the sweetenesse of the voyce is sought for in the holy ministerie the life is neglected Therefore sayeth Durandus Propter carnales non propter spirituales cantandi vsus in Ecclesia institutus est c. The vse of singing in the Church was ordeyned for carnall men and not for spirituall minded men YOVTH Let me heare then what is to be done and obserued to the ende Musicke maye lawfully and fruitfully be vsed in the Church AGE First we must take heede that in Musicke bee not put the whole summe and effect of godlynesse and of the worshipping of God which among the Papistes they doe almost euerywhere thinke that they haue fullye worshipped God when they haue long and much sung and piped Further we must take heede that in it be not put merite or remission of sinnes Thirdly that singing be not so much vsed and occupied in the Church that there be no time in a maner lest to preach the worde of God and holye doctrine Whereby it commeth to passe that the people depart out of the Church full of Musicke and harmonie but yet hungerbaned and fasting as touching heauenly foode and doctrine Fourthly that rich large stipends be not so appointed for Musitians that eyther very little or in a maner nothing is prouided for the ministers which labour in the worde of god Fiftly neyther may that broken and quauering musicke be vsed wherewith the standers by are so letted that they cannot vnderstand the words no though they woulde neuer so faine Lastly we must take heede that in the Church nothing be song without choyce but onelye those things which are contayned in the holye Scriptures or which are by iust reason gathered out of them and doe exactly agree with the worde of God. Nowe to conclude this matter I saye that godly and religious songs may be retayned in the Church And yet I confesse that there is no precept giuen in the new testament of that thing Wherefore if there be any Church which vpon iust causes vseth it not the same Church cannot iustlye be condemned so that it defende not that the thing it selfe of his owne nature or by the commaundement of God is unlawfull and that it doe not for the same cause reproue other Churches which vse singing and Musicke or else exclude them from the fellowship of christ Yet this ought to be considered that if we shall perceyue that christian people doe runne vnto the Churche as to a Stage playe where they may be delighted with pyping and singing and doe thereby absent themselues from hearing the worde of God preached in this case we must rather abstaine from a thing not necessarie than to suffer theiâ— pleasures to be cockered with the destruction of their soules YOVTH What say you of Minstrels that go and range abroade and thrust themselues into euery mannes presence and company to play some mirth vnto them AGE These sort of people are not sufferable bicause they are loyterers and ydle fellowes are therefore by the lawes and statutes of this Realme forbidden to raunge and roaue abroade counting them in the number of Roges and to saye truth they are but defacers of Musicke YOVTH Are there any other good exercises AGE Yes as Schollers to make Orations to playe good and honest Comedies to play at Tennise and such like c. Notwithstanding in all these exercises that I haue spoken off before this must I adde for your instruction that none of them ought to be a hinderance or let to any man from his duetie towardes Gods worde YOVTH Nowe that you haue declared to me what exercises are lawfull for the powers of the minde and bodie I praye you to shewe mee what that playe is which you call chaunce or happe AGE These Playes that depende vpon chaunce are those which we call Dice play which kinde of Play is to be eschewed and auoyded of all men So Cato giueth counsell to all youth saying Trocho lude aleas fuge Playe with the toppe and flee Diceplaying YOVTH What meane you to speake against Diceplaying fithe so manye honourable worshipfull and honest men vse so commonly to play at it AGE The persons make it not good but rather it maketh them the worse for it causeth manye of them oftentimes to bring a Castell into a Capcase a whole Manour and Lordeshippe into a Cottage their Fee simple into Fee single with other infinite lyke discommodities according to the olde verse Diues eram ductum me secerunt tria nudum Alea Vina Venus tribus his sum factus egenus Sometime riche I was and had thereof great spare But three things hath me made to go full poore and bare Dyce wyne and Generie were to me great speede These three did hasten all my woe and brought me to great neede Yet notwithstanding although these men that you speake of vse to play at Dice and loue that game so well yet in no myse will be called Dice players or Dicers it is so ovious a name the reason is for that it is an ovious and wicked play so the these the Oueane the Papistes Murderer c. will not be called by that name of that fault and filthie sinne which they vse bicause they knowe it is most wicked and abhominable YOVTH This fault of losing their goodes is not to be imputed to the play it selfe but to them that play AGE Yes sir it is in the Playe also Take awaye the whore there will be no whoredome take awaye fire there will be no burning take awaye powder and shotte none shall bee murthered take away poyson none can be
c. But what so euer these saye Saint Chrysostome an auncient Father sayth that it came firste from the Deuill For when he sawe sayth he that the people had committed Idolatrie to the golden Calfe he gaue them this libertie that they shoulde eate and drinke and ryse vp to daunce One Sebastian Brant agreeth herevnto saying The first beginning and cause originall I saye the cause thereof is worthie blame For when the Deuill to deceyue men mortall And doe contempt to the high God eternall Upon a stage had set a calfe of golde That euery man the same might clearely beholde So when the fonde ground of misgouernance Caused the people this figure to honour As for their God and before the same to daunce When they were drunken thus fell they in errour Of Idolatrie and forget their creatour Before this Idoll dauncing both wyfe and man Despising God thus dauncing first began Whereby you may easily perceiue from whence this dauncing came euen from the deuill himselfe for there can neuer come good effects when the causes are euill as out of a stinking puddle can not come cleane water nor of thornes men can gather grapes or figs of thistles c. euen so out of our kynd of dauncing can come nothing but that which is euill and naught YOVTH Why do you speake so much against dauncing sithe we haue so manye examples in the Scriptures of those that were godly and daunced As Miriam Moses and Aarons sister tooke a timbrell in hir hande and all the women came out after hir with Timbrels and daunces c. Also Iephtah when he came at Mizpeh vnto his house his daughter came out to meete hym with Timbrels and daunces c. Also the women came oute of all cities of Israell singing and dauncing to meete King Saule with Timbrels with Instruments of ioy and with rebecks c. King Dauid also daunced before the Lorde with all hys might c. Also all the women of Israell came togither to see Iudeth and blessed hir and made a daunce among them for hir c. And she went before the people in the Daunce leading all the women and all the men of Israell followed in their armour c. Salomon sayeth There is a time to mourne and a time to daunce It is sayde in Saint Luke by Christe himselfe Wee haue piped vnto you and ye haue not daunced c. Manye suche lyke examples I coulde recite to proue Dauncing to be laudable and not so wicked as you seeme to make it AGE I perceyue you vse to reade the Scriptures for you haue collected out many examples for your purpose which serue you nothing at all to maintaine your filthie Daunce Herein you shewe your seife lyke vnto the Papistes for wheresoeuer they reade in Scripture Peters name vp goeth the Popes false supremacie Wheresoeuer they reade this worde Crosse they aduaunce out of hande their Roode and Roodeloft where they read Light they set vp their Tapers and Torches and where they reade this worde Will vppe goeth their freewill workes and where they reade of workes there they maintaine merits where they reade of fire there they say is ment of Purgatorie And when they reade this worde Uowe they applye it vnto their single and vnchast lyfe c. So play you and those that maintayne Dauncing for wheresoeuer you reade this worde Daunce presently you apply it in such sort as though were ment thereby your filthie Dauncings which is not so if it be diligently considered Saint Hierome sayth Nec putemus in verbis scripturarum esse Euangelium sed in sensu non in superficie sed in medulla non in sermonum folijs sed in radice rationis Let vs not thinke that the Gospell sayth he consisteth in the wordes of the Scriptures but in the meaning not in the barke but in the pith not in the leaues of wordes but in the roote of the meaning YOVTH I speake not of words onely but I speake to proue Dauncing by certaine examples AGE The Logitian sayth that an argument made onely vpon examples halteth alwayes vpon one foote that is to saye that it is but halfe an argument As if he woulde say We must not buylde and make a rule vpon examples onely without there be some other reason and authoritie And therefore it is sayde Lâ—gibus enim viuimus non exemplis We liue by lawes and not by examples If then a Logitian so saye vpon prophane arguments we ought a great deale more so to saye touching diuine causes And if a Logitian will not allowe an argument whiche is not made but vpon examples thinkest thou that the holye Scripture doth admit and allowe it YOVTH And why not I pray you AGE Bicause the people then woulde fall into sinne and great errours As a man woulde saye Abraham had the companie of his seruant Agar and therefore I may haue the companie of my seruant Likewise a man might say that Iacob had two sisters to wife and therefore I may also haue two A man might likewise say Abraham pleased God in that he sacrificed his son Isaac therefore I shall please him in sacrificing my sonne vnto him c. And so if we must argue by examples without reason and authoritie of holy Scripture there shoulde be nothing but confusion in christian religion YOVTH I pray you then let mee heare your reasons to the contrary that these examples and such like c. serue not for the maintenance of Dauncing AGE Neuerthelesse that I haue spoken sufficient herevnto yet I will make aunswere to your examples YOVTH I shall giue attentiue eare therevnto AGE First that Daunce that Miriam Aarons sister and the other women vsed was no vayne and wanton Daunce for carnall and filthie pleasures as yours is but it was that kynde of Daunce which is called Chorea for they did it in praysing God signifying and declaring their great ioye that Moses and Aaron with all the children of Israell were passed the redde sea in safetie and their enimies Pharao and his hoste destroyed c. And the like order did Iephtah his daughter vse for the victorye that God gaue vnto hir father against his enimies c. And so did the women in meeting king Saule And also Iudith and the residue of the women c. praysed God for the victorie that Saule had ouer the Philistines And Iudith with the residue magnified God as appeareth in the xvj Chapter for that the Citie of Bethulia was deliuered from the enimies by the death of Holofernes and so in going altogither hande in hande reioyced and praised God in Psalmes Also here is to be noted in these examples that you alledge for Dauncing that Miriam and the other women and Iephtah his daughter the women that daunced in meeting Saule and Iudeth that daunced with the other women of Israell for ioye of their deliuerye c. daunced not with yong men but apart by themselues among