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A02848 An ansvver to the first part of a certaine conference, concerning succession, published not long since vnder the name of R. Dolman Hayward, John, Sir, 1564?-1627. 1603 (1603) STC 12988; ESTC S103906 98,388 178

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allowe for a iust and sufficient cause the will iudgement of the people Your reason is for that they are the iudge of the thing it selfe and therefore they are the iudge also of the cause Your antecedent you proue First for that it is in their owne affaire secondly for that it is in a matter that hath his whole beginning continuance and substance from them alone Your cōsequence you proue by a whole lump of lawe in alleaging the entire bodie of the ciuil and Canon lawe assisted also with great reason Diogenes said of a certain Tumbler that he neuer sawe man take more paines to breake his necke In like sort we may say of you It is hard to finde a man that hath more busied his wittes to ouerthrow the opiniō of his wisedome For the first proofe of your antecedēt is not only of no force for you but strong against you because no man is a competent iudge in his owne cause no man can bee both partie and iudge whereto I wil adde that no inferiour hath iurisdiction ouer the superiour much lesse the subiect against the Soueraigne Your second proofe that all the power of a King hath dependency vpon the people I haue sufficiently encountred before And if your consequence were true that whosoeuer is iudge of a thing is iudg also without controwlment of the cause if this were as agreeable to all lawes as you make countenance then were all iudgements arbitrarie then could no appeale be enterposed for giuing sentence without iust cause then were it false which Panormitane writeth that a false cause expressed in a sentence maketh it voide What shall I say what doe you thinke doe you think that these fat drops of a greasie brain can bring the tenure of a crown to the wil of the people what are you who endeuour thus boldly to abuse both our iudgement conscience Are you religious are you of ciuil either nature or education who vnder the name of Ciuilian do open the way to all maner of deceits periuries tumults treasons What are you For you shewe your selfe more prophane then Infidels more barbarous then Caniballs Tartarians Moores Mammelucks who though they beare themselues in nothing more then hatred and cōtempt yet do they both loue honor their kings I see what you are the very true follower of the Anabaptists in Garmanie who openly professed that they must ruinate the state of kings And who can assure vs for your corrupt dealing make all suspitions credible that you doe not also follow them both in desire and hope to imbrace the Monarchy of the whole world The difference betweene you is this they pretended reuelation for their warrant you worke by deceitfull shewe of reason by falsly either alleaging or wresting or corrupting both humane and diuine authoritie In what miserable condition should Princes liue if their slate depended vpon the pleasure of the people in whom company taketh away shame and euery man may laie the fault on his fellow How could they commaund who would obey what could they safely either doe or omit Who knowes a people that knoweth not that suddain opinion maketh them hope which if it be not presently answered they fall into hate choosing and refusing erecting and ouerthrowing as euery winde of passion doth puffe What staiednesse in their will or desire which hauing so many circles of imagination can neuer be enclosed in one point And whereas you write that God alwaies approueth the will and iudgement of the people as being properly the iudge of the whole businesse and that euery particular man must simply submit himselfe therevnto without further inquisition although at diuers times they determine contraries as they did betweene the houses of Lancaster and Yorke because we must presume that they were ledde by different respects You seeme not obscurely to erect thereby another priuiledged power vppon earth which cannot erre which doth not deceiue But it may be some honest minded man will say that howsoeuer you write your meaning was otherwise you write also afterward that in two cases euery priuate man is bounde to resist the iudgement of the whole people to the vttermost extent of his abilitie Well then let vs take you for a man whose sayings disagree both from your meaning and betweene themselues let vs consider what are your two exceptions The first is when the matter is carried not by way of orderly iudgement but by particular faction of priuate men who will make offer to determine the cause without authoritie of the Realme committed vnto them But this exception is so large that it deuoureth the whole rule for in actions of this qualitie the originall is alwaies by faction the accomplishment by force or at least by feare howsoeuer they are sometimes countenanced with authoritie of the state So Sylla hauing brought his legions within the walles of Rome obteined the lawe Valeria to be published whereby he was created Dictator for 24. yeares by meanes of which force Cicero affirmeth that it was no lawe Likewise Lawrence Medices hauing an armie within Florence caused or rather constrained the Citizens to elect him Duke When Henry the fourth was chosen king ho held fortie thousand men in Armes And this is most euident by your owne example of foure contrary actes of Parliament which at diuers times were made during the contention betweene the families of Lancastar and Yorke not vpon different reasons as with little reason you affirme but vpon different successe of either side In matters of this moment the orderly course of proceeding is onely by Parliament The Parliament must bee summoned by the Kings vvrit and no act thereof hath life But by expresse consent of the King If this forme had alvvayes beene obserued neyther our Kinges should haue beene deposed nor the next successours excluded nor the title of the crowne entangled to the inestimable both weakning waste of all the Realme Your second exceptiō is when such a man is preferred to the crowne by whō God is manifestly offended the realme preiudiced or endangered in which case you say euery man with a free and vntrowled conscience may resist what he can It was euen here I looked for you Your broyling spirits do nothing else but fling firebrands heape on wood to set kingdomes in combustiō What rebellion what reuolt hath euer bin made but vnder some of these pretenses what Princes actions either by malicious or ignorant interpretation may not easily be drawen to one of these heades you are a nursery of war in the common-wealth a Seminary of schisme diuisiō in the church In sum all your actions all your thoughts are barbarous bloody You write much of right iustice but you measure the right iustice of a cause by the aduantage of your owne affaires You speak as hauing a tender touch of the glorie of God but you stretch out your throate with high wordes of contradiction against him You
that line also failed in Sigismond Augustus the last male of that Familie the States elected Henry Duke of Anjowe for their King with this clause irritant That if hee did violate any point of his oath the people should owe him no alleageance But whereas you report this as the vsuall oath of the Kinges of Polonia you deserue to heare the plainest tearme of vntruth In the kingdome of Spaine you distinguish two times one before the conquest thereof by the Moores the other after it was recouered againe by the Christians I acknowledge a difference in these two times for that in the one the right of the kingdome was electiue in the other it hath alwaies remained successiue insomuch as Peter Belluga a diligent writer of the rights of Arragon doth affirme that the people haue no power in election of the king except in case the line should faile Concerning the matter in controuersie you affirme that the kings did sweare the same points in effect which before haue bene mentioned This wee must take vpon your forfeited faith for you alleadge no forme of oath onely you write that the fourth nationall Councell of Toledo with all humilitie conuenient did require that the present king and all other that should follow would be meeke and moderate towardes their subiects and gouerne them with iustice and not giue sentence in causes capitall without assistance declaring further that if any of them should exercise cruell and proude authoritie 〈◊〉 they were condemned by Christ with the sentence of Excommunication and separated to euerlasting iudgement But what pang hath possessed your dreaming braines to tearme this by a marginall note Conditions of raigning in Spaine being no other then a reuerent and graue admonition of the dutie of a king with a feareful declaration of the iudgment of God against wicked Princes And that which was afterward decreed in the sixt Councell of Toledo That the king should sweare not to suffer any man to breake the Catholike faith because it is a principall point of his dutie his estate was not thereby made conditionall The rest of this passage you fill vppe with froath of the antiquated lawe of Don Pelayo prescribing a forme of inaugurating the Kinges of Spaine whereof there is not one point either now in vse or pertaining to the purpose So miserable is your case that you can write nothing therein but that which is either impertinent or vntrue For Fraunce your first example is taken from the coronation of Philip the first wherein you note that king Henrie his father requested the people to sweare obedience to his sonne inferring thereby that a coronation requireth a new consent which includeth a certaine election of the subiects But this is so light that the least breath is sufficient to disperse it Philip was crowned king during the life of his father which action as it was not ordinarie so was it of such both difficultie and weight that it could not be effected without assemblie and consent of the States The oath which he made is in this forme extant in the Librarie of Rheimes I do promise before God and his Saints that I will conserue to euery one committed vnto me canonicall priuiledge due Law Iustice and wil defend thē by the helpe of God so much as shall lye in my power as a king by right ought to do within his Realme to euery Bishop and to the Church cōmitted to him and further to the people cōmitted to my charge I wil grant by my authority the dispensatiō of laws according to right Ad to this a more anciēt form of the oth of those kings which it seemeth you haue not seene I sweare in the name of God Almighty promise to gouerne well duly the subiects cōmitted to my charge to do with all my power iudgement iustice and mercy Ad also the oath which you alleage of Philip the 2. surnamed Augustus To maintaine all canonicall priuileges law Iustice due to euery mā to the vttermost of his power to defēd his subiects as a good king is bound to do to procure that they be kept in the vniō of the Church to defend thē frō al excesse rapine extortion iniquity to take order that Iustice be kept with equity mercy to endeuor to expell heretiks What doth all this rise vnto but a princely promise to discharge honorably and truly those points of duty which the laws of God did lay vpō thē What other cōditions or restraints are imposed what other cōtract is hereby made where are the protestations which in the end of the last chap. you promised to shew that if the Prince do faile in his promise the subiects are free frō their allegeāce what clause do you find sounding to that sense But you litle regard any thing that you say you easily remēber to forget your word Wel thē we must put these your vaine speeches into the reckning of mony accōpted but not receiued and seeing you cannot shew vs that the kings of France and of Spaine are tied to any condition whereto the law of God doth not bind thē I will not vary frō the iudgemēt of Ordradus in affirming thē to be absolute kings I haue pressed this point the rather in this place because you write that most neighbour nations haue takē the forme of annointing crowning their kings from the anciēt custome of France although the substāce be deduced from the first kings of the Hebrews as appeareth by the annointing of king Saule whereof Dauid you say made great accompt notwithstanding that Saule had bene reiected by God and that himselfe had lawfully borne armes against him Out Atheist you would be dawbed with dung haue the most vile filth of your stewes cast in your face Did Dauid beare armes against his annointed king did he euer lift vp his eye-lids against him did he euer so much as defend himselfe otherwise then by flight It is certaine that Shemei did not halfe so cruelly either curse or reuile this holy man who did so much both by speech and action detest this fact that he would rather haue endured ten thousand deaths then to haue defiled his soule with so damnable a thought What then shall we say vnto you who to set vp sedition and tumult abuse all diuine humane wrightings in whatsoeuer you beleeue will aduance your purpose who spend some speech of respect vnto kings for allurement onely to draw vs more deepe into your deceit Shall we giue any further eare to your doctrine both blasphemous and bloudy We will heare you to the end and I deceiue my selfe but your owne tale shall in any moderate iudgement condemne the authoritie of your opinions for euer Let vs come then to your last example which is neither the last nor the least whereat you leuell And that is of England which of all other kingdomes you say hath most particularly taken this ceremony of Sacring and
not bene so foolishly eyther suspitious or fonde that when King Richard sent for him they refused to commit him into his Vncles hands But after the death of king Richard his brother Iohn seized vpon his treasure in Normandie came ouer into England and in an assembly onely of the Nobilitie was crowned king Of these many he wonne with such liberall protestations and promises as men carelesse of their word are wont to bestowe others were abused by the perswasions of Hubert Archbishop of Canterburie and a fewe others saith Polydore not well aduised Nic. Triuet saith that Iohn pretended for his title not the election of the people but propinquitie of bloud and the testament of king Richard The same also is affirmed by Walsingham And this is the question betweene the Vncle and the Nephewe of which I shall haue occasion to speake hereafter But Polydore saith that diuers noble men did account this to be a fraudulent iniustice and therevpon did ominate those euils which afterward did ensue And when the Archbishop was charged that vnder colour of reason partly subborned and partly weake he had bene the occasion of all those mischiefes Polydore saith that he was both grieued and ashamed at nothing more Rog. Wenden affirmeth that he excused himselfe that he did it vpon oracles and by the gift of prophesie King Iohn hauing locked himselfe into the saddle of state made one wrong which he had done to be the cause of a greater wrong by murthering his Nephew Arthur Duke of Britane whose inheritāce he did vniustly vsurpe For this fact the French king depriued him of all the landes which he helde in fee of the crowne of France prosecuted the sentence to effect After this as men are easily imboldened against an vsurper when once he declineth eyther in reputation or in state diuers of the Nobilitie especially they of the North confederated against him but being neither able to endure his warre nor willing to repose trust in his peace they cōtracted with Lewis the French kings sonne to take vpon him to be their king And so it often happeneth in ciuill contentions that they who are weakest do runne with a naturall rashnesse to call in a third Lewes being arriued vpon the coast of Kent the Nobilitie of that faction came and sware alleageance vnto him The Londoners also many vpon an ordinarie desire to haue new kings others for feare and ●ome for company ioyned to the reuolt Hereof a lamentable presence of all miseries did arise whereby as well the libertie as the dignitie of the Realme were brought to a neare and narrowe iumpe The poore people naked both of helpe and hope stood at the curtesie and pleasure of the men of armes the libertie of warre making all things lawfull to the furie of the strongest The Nobilitie feeling much and fearing more the insolencie of the French Natiō who as Vicount Melin a noble mā of France confessed at his death had sworne the extirpation of all the noble bloud in the Realme began to deuise how they might returne into the alleageance of king Iohn in so much as a litle before his death Letters were b●ought vnto him from certaine of his Barons to the number of fortie who desired to be receiued againe into his peace But after his death which happily did happen within fiue moneths after the arriuall of the French both their hatred and their feare being at an ende they were all as readie to cast out Lewes as they had bene rash to call him in This History you corrupt with verie many odious vntruthes which are more harsh to a well tuned eare then the crashing of teeth or the grating of copper As namely in affirming that Arthur was excluded and Iohn crowned King by the states of the Realme that God did more defend this act of the Common-wealth then the iust title of Arthur that by the same states king Iohn was reiected Prince Hēry his sonne depriued and Lewes of France chosen to be king that the same states recalled their sentence against Prince Henry disanulling their oathe and alleageance made vnto Lewes A shamelesse tongue gouerned by a deceitfull minde can easily call faction the Common wealth rebellion a iust and iudiciall proceeding open an often periurie an orderly reuoking of a sentence Gods secret iudgement in permitting iniustice to preuaile a plain defence and allowance thereof Of the diuision of the houses of Lancastar and Yorke it is but little that you write whereto I haue fully answered before you do wisely to giue a light touch to this example it is so hotte that it will scalde your throate King Henry the fourth more caried by cursed ambition then either by necessitie or right laide an vniust gripe vpon the Realme which afterward he did beautifie with the counterfeit titles of conquest and election So violent are the desires of Princes to imbrace streined titles by whiche they may disturbe the states of other not remembring that right may be troaden downe but not troaden out hauing her secret both meanes to support and seasons to reuiue her For although the lawfull successor did warily strike saile to the tempest because neither the time running nor the opportunitie present which are the guiders of actions did consent as then to enter into enterprise Yet so soone as one heare of occasion was offered his progenie did set vp a most doubtfull warre wherein thirteene battailes were executed by English-men only and aboue fourescore Princes of the royall blood slaine Loe now the smiling successe of these vsurpations loe what a deare purchase of repentance they did cause Were it not that passion doth blind men not only in desire but in hope they might suffice to make vs aduised to keepe rather the knowne beaten way with safetie then vpon euery giddie and brainlesse warrant to engulphe our selues in those passages wherein so many haue perished before vs. It belongeth to wise men to auoide mischies and it is the reward of fooles to lament them Goe too then conclude if you please that the people are not bound to admit him to the Crowne who is the next successor by propinquitie of blood but rather to weigh whether it is like that hee will performe his charge or no. Conclude this I say to be your opinion and that it seemeth to you to be conforme to all reason lawe religion pietie wisedome and policie and to the custome of all Common wealthes in the world and I wil assuredly conclude against you that you prate without either warrant or weight To the ninth Chapter which beareth title VVhat are the principall points which a Common-wealth ought to respect in admitting or excluding any Prince wherein is handled largely also of the diuersitie of religions and other such causes IN this passage you handle what cause is sufficient either to keepe in or to cast the next in blood out of state In which question you determine that God doth