of necessity be fruitlesse in being made unto his so rude and so barren answer These two reasons do as I conceive justly warrant my delay Whilst thus I am necessitated a judicious and true friend upon sight of the wretched and despicable babling in the rescript of Anonymus gave me this advice That the Priests answer being worthy of nothing but contempt and being too tedious for a present reply especially in the middest of better avocations I should publish this Quadrilogus which I formerly sent unto him and thereby provoke him to thrust forth his elegant answer whereupon the world without more lines may judge on which side Truth and Modesty do dwell I have followed this Counsell Here is my adventure in way of challenge I expect that he should be at charge to publish his own answer and then presuming on better leisure I hope in a reply upon his babling to shew that the Poets contempt will be a just Encomion for this old Fryer O solâ fortem garrulitate senem 20. March 1640. SIR EDWARD DERING TO Anonymus-Eremita YOU challenged me to set down in writing three propositions which being by me performed you then fled from your own undertaking here they are again 1. The Pope hath by divine right a supremacy of power in matters Spirituall which ought to be universally beleeved and obeyed as of Faith 2. The Romish Masse is a Sacrifice both proper and propitiatory for the present and the absent for the living and the dead 3. Our blessed Saviour and his Apostles did teach the same points of doctrine which the Church of Rome doth affirm and which are denyed by the Reformed Church Prove and maintain these positions with clear and full authority and hear I give you my hand that you shall then have my heart unto the Roman Church EDVVARD DERING REcensui Tractatum hunc doctum admodum acutum Orthodoxum eúmque dignissimum judico qui in honorem Authoris Antagonistae verò infamiam in utilitatem publicam typis mandetur April 13. 1641. Johannes Hansley R. P. Epis. Lond. Capel Domest. CHAP. I. Of Fraud THAT which last came shall be first served The Treatise last sent unto me by you shall be first accounted unto Nor will I pick out a word or a sentence to cavill on but fairly and entirely take all your discourse therein concerning one single and severall subject That which I shall heer first insist upon is your particular Caveat concerning Altars Being indeed a severall Chapter and the whole discourse you have upon that particular subject Give me leave to divide your Chapter into parts that so I may with lesse confusion give account to each severall Section In your Treaties inscribed A Caveat for a friend This following is your tenth Chapter Anonymus A THeir Judge saith B We Christians have an Altar whereof they have not power to eat who serve the Tabernacle Heb. 13. 10. C Again If thou offer thy hoast at the Altar and there thou remember that thy brother hath some thing against thee leave there thy offering before the Altar Matth. 5. 24. And so say Romane Catholikes D Protestants either have none or make it a thing indifferent either to have or not to have as appeareth by their practice And these who have make not use of them according to the institution of Altars For the use of an Altar is to make sacrifice upon the Altar being the proper place of the sacrifice as witnesseth King Edward and the Protestant Lords of His Councell in their Letters for the taking down of Altars and setting up of the Table in stead thereof in Iohn Fox Pag. 1520. Sir Edward Dering A THeir Iudge saith c. meaning the holy Scripture thus you begin six Chapters together proceed scoff on We thank you for such scornes And with due reverence do acknowledge this our divine infallible Iudge wondering that any Christian should decline or sleight the written law of Christ our Saviour Go on to disclaime for your Iudge what the holy Ghost hath written Renounce your part and deny the Iudge to be competent or sufficient Did you not forget Saint Paul who telleth Timothy that The holy Scriptures are able to make him wise unto salvation and that they are profitable for doctrine for reproof for correction for instruction in righteousnesse that the man of God may be perfect But belike you finde that this Iudge is ours in a double right one is the due of his place The other is because he may justly be called our Iudge for that he voteth for us and against you But notwithstanding that you would pull down holy Scriptures from the Bench yet learned men on your side do hold them there whether you like thereof or not Learned Andradius writing against Remnitius in defence of your Tridentine Councel lib. 2. plainly acknowledgeth the holy Scripture for Iudge Scripturam Sacram Controversiarum Iudicem constituimus We do constitute the holy Scripture Iudge of Controversies He could not say lesse yet for fear he had said too much he denieth this Iudge to contain all things necessary so would have us to take it for a Iudge and no Iudge or in brief for an imperfect or insufficient Iudge A Iudge but such a one as faileth in things necessary O the wisedome of God how that must suffer by the impious folly of men God himself hath given us a Iudge But Andradius with others as Dominicus Baâ—nes Melchior Canus Cardinall Hosius Doctor Stapleton c. say that this Iudge is deficient in things necessary to salvation Is not this plainly to accuse the wisedome of God as if he could not or his goodnesse as if he would not make our â—â—dge sufficient Do not the holy Scriptures abound with some things not necessary for salvation and hath the wisedome of God left out necessaries Andradius subjoyneth again Libri Sacri praecipui sunt Controversiarum judices The holy Books are the principall Iudges of Controversie Mark how unsteady he is the Scripture is Iudge of controversies yet defective in things necessary and yet the principall Iudge of controversies Thus A double minded man is unstable in all his wayes But your more learned Bellarmine de verbo Dei saith Sacra Scriptura regula credendi certissima tutissimaque est The holy Scripture is the most safe and most certain rule of Belife and again Sacris Scripturis nihil est notius nihil certius Nothing is more known nothing more certain then the holy Scriptures If then the holy Scriptures be the most known and most infallible Rule of Faith so much do Bellarmines two places inferre If they be the judge the chief Iudge of Controversies so much Andradius two places do determine leave then your hollow and unsavory scornes and submit your self and your cause unto this holy and heavenly Iudge But I fear you had rather hold company with Piggius Ecchius Cusanus Pereonius Norris and others of your bent who in Tertullians phrase are Lucifugae Scripturarum owle-eyed in Sunshine Run-awayes from the brightnesse of the Scriptures Men
that loved darknesse rather then light because their deeds their doctrines were evill These men to bring a disregard upon Gods Sacred Word give it prophane Nick-names Lesbiam Regulam Evangelium Nigrum Theologiam Atramentariam Nasum Cereum A Lesbian Rule The black Gospel Inky Divinity and a Nose of Wax You in as hatefull a way of irrision have invented or do pretend to have invented another by-word for the sacred Word of God and have with smiling scorne for which you may chance one day to howle derided it by name of Sheeps-Cloathing intimating it to be the wearing of Wolves what shall sheep now cloath themselves withall I pray without scorne shew me what other cloathing you have for the sheep But I must not stay thus at the threshold the doore is open and I now am entring within the wals of your discourse yet again saluting you at my entrance with thanks for yeilding us the honour and our true Right in having the holy Scriptures for our Iudge But take heed of this and consider it next time you shall read Saint Paul to the Romans who will there put you in minde of that great and terrible day when as he saith God shall judge the secrets of men by Iesus Christ according to his Gospel Which Gospel you dare not deny to be a written Gospel Take heed then how you mock our Iudge hereafter since that you hear your own doome shall be by Iesus Christ the eternall Iudge according to our present Iudge The written Gospel Anonymus B WE Christians have an Altar whereof they have not power to eate who serve the Tabernacle Heb. 13. 10. Sir Edward Dering THe title of your Chapter and your pretension is to prove the use of Altars even by our Iudge the holy Scriptures This Text you bring against us and for your self Habemus Altare we have an Altar saith Saint Paul If there be no more but this The Text hath as much for us as for you we also have and ever had this Altar But that which you assume to prove and would pretend to be hereby proved or else you say nothing to the cause in difference between us is that we have not such Altars as you have How is this we have Altars figuratively and improperly so called But you have Altars materiall Altars and properly so called Here then lyes all the difference and upon this hinge the whole cause doth turn whether Saint Paul do here mean a materiall visible and a proper Altar You have daily sacrifice properly called sacrifice as you say and therefore by the necessary consequence of Relatives you must have or say you have Altars properly so called This is the true state of the Difference between us you may beleeve Cardinall Bellarmin who takes it for granted on both sides Altaria non consuevisse erigi nisi ad sacrificia propriè dicta The Altars use not to be erected unlesse for sacrifices properly so called And again Sine Altari non potest sacrificari without an Altar sacrifice can not be And a third time in his first Book of the masse Nunquam Altare propriè dictum erigitur nisi ad Sacrificia propriè dicta An Altar properly so called is never erected but for sacrifices properly so called Now you pretending that your Sacrifices are proper Sacrifices must contend for Altars properly so called The nature of Relatives is such that as Sacrifice Altar do in generall relate each to other so of necessity if one be proper the other must be proper if one improper the other improper also If then you prove not the propriety of your Sacrifice you are gone for your Altar and if you prove not your erroneous transubstantiation you are gone from your proper Sacrifice But you have not gone this way and therefore I will not strive to refute you this way But briefly meet and close with you upon this Text alledged which Text if it prove an Altar properly so called the cause is yours and I will yeild my self to Rome If this Text do not prove it for you nor any other Do you give glory to God and submit unto our Iudge But by what means shall we now try the true sence of these words and the meaning of the Apostle or rather of the Holy Ghost herein That this may appear I offer you afair tryall and Iudges undeclinable 1. The plain series scope of the context it self 2. The opinion and interpretation of the ancient Fathers 3. The opinion and confession of your own eminent Doctors and others within these last 600. yeers First The Text is not for you for we differ not about having and not having an Altar but as is said about an Altar proper for Sacrifice proper wherein the words of this Text come farre short and the sence of this Text is farre more distant Our {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} our holy Table is a holy Altar yet neither your Altar nor our Holy Table here intended by this Text What then is the meaning of Habemus Altare mark the context {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} c. We have an Altar whereof to eat c. You will not say Saint Paul here meant the eating of a materiall Altar Be it of stone or wood your teeth had need be iron if you say there is a figure in the word Eat I say that must necessarily infer the same figure in the word Altar If then this Text can not be interpreted of a materiall Altar what have you to do to produce it against us for your materiall Altars Let the Apostle expound himself and he will plainly shew you what Sacrifice he would have and then tell me what Altar must be for such Sacrifice Presently he begins to apply his speech unto our blessed Saviour and so annexing his conclusion to his premisses Ergo c. saith he By him therefore let us offer the Sacrifice of praise to God continually that is the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name Do you mark what manner of sacrifices are here commended unto us can you finde any use of a proper materiall Altar for them would you have a visible Altar for invisible Sacrifice Beside it will not be enough for you to finde Habemus Altane we have an Altar but you must get a Text Habemus Altaria we have a plurality of Altars else your practice will prove unjustifiable when God with his Quo warranto shall demand of you as the Prophet enquireth To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me saith the Lord Who hath required this at your hand Secondly To come to my second sort of proofes and withall to shew you what Altar is here meant I do affirm that no one or not above one of the holy Fathers in the pure primitive Church hath
distinct in knowledge How shall these thus distinct know one another even concerning things done much more concerning thoughts S. Gregory hath not answered for himself do you undertake it Anonymus SAint Basil in his Book of Virginity faith there is not any Saint which doth not see all things that are done anywhere in the world Sir Edward Dering YOu know I am an easie workman and you take care to set me easie work Whether Basil have these words in that long Book or no I can not readily finde But if you will open your eyes you may confesse that they who see all things done may yet be ignorant of all secrets thought and imagined Anonymus SAint Prosper in his Book of contemplative life is of the same opinion saying Nothing is so secret as the knowledge thereof may be denyed unto the perfectly blessed their seeing God with pure understanding being without comparison a thing more excellent Sir Edward Dering BIshop Prosper saith as you alleage Nothing is so secret c. Now the generall acceptation and meaning of the word Nothing is No thing and that is Nothing to your purpose But I have found these words in Prosper and you shall have them and more The title of his Chapter is De resurrectione c. Of the Resurrection to come not of the present Saints now in Heaven he speaketh their of our future Beatitude receptis cum immortalitate corporibus When our bodies shall be immortall And then saith that in that blessed contemplative life Ibi ita patebunt singulorum singulis mentes sicut corporalibus oculis subjacent facies corporales Every ones minde to every one shall there so lye open as corporall faces are exposed to corporall eyes Thus it shall be then and there at the Resurrection and in Heaven Now goeth he on to your words Nec latebit jam perfecte beatos aliquid Secretorum qui ipsum visuri sunt mundis cordibus Deum None of these things that are secret shall now lye hid to the perfectly blessed who shall see God himself with pure hearts Thus your Saints in Prosper know the secrets of one anothers mindes in Heaven after the Resurrection what I pray is that to the present Saints in Heaven and to there knowing the present secrets of mens hearts on earth I am ashamed to be put to answer such weak so poore so worthlesse and impertinent arguments but you are another Xenocrates and though I be not worthy to hold the candle to Aristotle Yet I will borrow his words of indignation reported by Plutarch {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} it is a shame for me to hold peace when Xenocrates takes upon him to teach But I proceed unto your last authority Anonymus SAint Augustine in his 22. Book of the Citie of God Chap. 29. saith The Saints of God even with the eyes of their body closed up shall see all things not onely present but also from which they are corporally absent for then shall be that perfection whereof the Apostle saith we now prophecy but in part then the imperfect shall be taken away Sir Edward Dering I Cannot in that place finde the words you cite nor need I care it is enough that the words themselves as you produce them do prove nothing of that you intend them for The Saints you say with the eyes of their body closed up c. But you believe their bodies and their bodily eyes shall not be in Heaven untill the generall Resurrection So then Saint Augustine and Prosper speak not of the Saints now in Heaven and therefore nothing to your question That Saint Augustine could not so mean you may read what I am sent unto by your Francis à St Clare in his 37. and last Probleme Who telleth me that Saint Augustine did doubt whether the Saints departed do yet before the generall Resurrection enjoy the Beatificall Vision or that rather they be in certain occult and hidden receptacles untill then The places are pregnant Qui morte obierunt secret is animarum receptaculis sedibusque requiescunt The dead do rest in secret receptacles and seats of soules And again in his Retractations lib. 1. cap. 14. De sanctis hominibus jam defunctis utrum ipsi saltem dâ—cendi sint in illa possessione consistere meritò quaeritur Of holy men already departed whether they at least may be said to be in that possession that is of Beatitude may deservedly be questioned If there present state of Beatitude may in Saint Augustines opinion be deservedly questioned how can you think that he should say that the present Saints in Heaven see all that is done on earth much more what is thought in the heart of man Thus Saint Augustine is no more for you then the other Fathers were even in that chosen peece you have vouched your self But to let you see that you have no shadow to shelter your self withall under that eminent Father read in his Book de cura pro mortuis and you shall finde his opinion clear in this point Ibi sunt spiritus defunctorum ubi non vident quaecunque aguntur aut eveniunt ista vita hominibus The spirits of men departed are there where they do not see whatsoever is done or doth chance to men in this life If not what is done then much lesse what is thought The same Father beginneth his 15. Chapter of Care for the dead with these words Proinde fatendum est nescire quidem mortuos quid hic agatur Furthermore it is to be confessed that the dead know not what is done here And so goeth on to declare that the dead if they know do know by relation of such as passe by death from hence unto them Thus by Saint Augustines opinion the dead see neither thoughts nor actions here below So have you as in some before Saint Augustine for S. Augustine make your Reply when youÌ„ can In the mean time you are not the man whose right hand should support old Troy or your Troy-discended Romanes As my Uncle Dering in his restraint of Mr Hardings untruthes Printed 1568. said unto Master Harding so say I unto you in consideration of these pitifull helps to so poore a cause They that favour your doings may bewail with Andromach lifting up your weak hands of Astyanax and say Spes nullas habet Troja si istas habet Your Troy hath no hope at all if it have no hope but this A word or two for the opinion of your own Doctors and a Text of holy Scripture and so adiew for this point I might trouble you with abundant vouchers out of the Fathers as of Saint Hierome who proveth our Saviour to be God by that very argument because he knew the secrets of mans heart But you shall be paid in your own currant coyne Your Doctor Thomas of Aquine Cognoscere cogitationes cordis est proprium Dei and on Iere. 17. Ergo Angeli non cognoscunt
sed minus pudet But I passe the basenesse of that barbarisme because a far more odious cause cryeth out Looke in your sixth chapter and excuse your selfe from Blasphemy if you can Among Advocates and Disputants it is held odious and absurd to leave the cause and inveigh and raile against the persons But you leaving the cause and our persons also boldly fly in Os Coeli into the face of God Marke your own words I will begin where you have set your marke in the margent Note say you as if you thought it an excellent piece of your owne performance The words are these pag. 27. Where they speak to their earthly Lords and Kings either they stand or kneele handsomely with their hats in their hands but when they speak to their God commonly they either speake sitting with their caps on as haile fellow well met with their God or else with their noses thrust into their hats for feare as it seemeth that the evill smells which come from their God should infect their braines Their Temples and Synagogues are not so neat as their bed-chambers galleryes or chambers of presence or audience and when they come into their Temples to treat with their God or hear his Word or Law unlesse it be for respect of some man there every one without respect to his God sitteth him down and putteth on his cap In so much as the God of the Protestants is the most uncivill evill-mannered God of all those who have borne the name of Gods upon earth yea worse then Pan the God of Clownes that can endure no ceremonies or good manners To this I adde what of the same strain I finde in your fourth Chapter Pag. 19. I appeal say you to your Majesty meaning King Iames of precious memory well pleased to consider how great injustice it is to have your ancient Subjects spoiled of their lands goods liberty and life and be condemned as Felons and Traytors For that they will not beleeve in such a perjured God Is not this Language worthy a Faggot without a recantation can you devise more high more impious more daring Blasphemy Did you ever hear any the worst of Protestants ever Blaspheme God for ever to be blessed Did ever any of us deny or disclaime your god to be our God Did you ever hear any of your own Papists so Blasphemous as your self Is the God of Protestants your God How dare you then revile him If he be not your God you then do serve the divell Lord bow down thine ear and hear open Lord thine eyes and see and hear the words of Sennacherib which hath sent him to reproach the living God I will not deseant upon so foul so bold impietie I forbear and leave you to the consistory of your own conscience The repetition of this is so odious that I dare say you are condemned even at home in your own bosome already at least I would hope so well of you that you have and do condemn your self which you must do for this even to hell or else you can have no true hope for Heaven and you had need to do it as publikely as this is which you have heer set forth If your temper will be hot yet as it is Revel. 3. 19. Be zealous and repent Conclusion IN the first of my foure Chapters I have observed how you have disclaimed the holy Scriptures for your judge honouring us with that indubious character of being the sheep of Christs fould because we hear his voice whilst you disvalew deny and disclaim the authority of his Word Here again in this last Chapter I finde our God as before his Word disclaimed by you The God of the Protestants say you c. And then not content divers times to have denyed him for your God you Blaspheme him also in horrid and most fearefull Language Language of that transcendency and so divelish that it cannot be beleeved with the Analogy of Gods honour and due reverenee to his Name that the divell and the howling damned in hell shall be suffered to belch against the Majesty of Heaven the names of uncivill evill-mannered perjured God worse then the god of Clownes c. Thus have you denyed God in this world pray you and I pray God that you may by repentance and amendment prevent the time when God shall else deny you in the world to come least that you there finde that unto Maledicentibus there is an ite Maledicti Go you cursed will be said to them that curse For Blasphemia est maledicentia c. Blasphemy is cursing c. Repent recall your self and others least you prove Anonymus in the Book of Life FINIS Rom. 10. 10. Matth 12. 34. Rom. 10. 10. Matth. 12 35. 1 Pet. 2. 22 Ioh. 14. 6. Ioh. 8 44. Gen. 3. 4. Defensâ— Trid. l. 2. Here were somâ— lines that would by circumstances have expressed the name of that Honorable person whom I chuse rather to omit 〈◊〉 §. 2. 2 Tim. 3. 15 16. Iam. 1. 8. Ioh. 3. 19. Rom. 2 16. De miss lib. 1. cap. 16. De cultu Sanct. lib. 3. cap. 4. Lib. 1. c. 14. §. 4. Vers 15. Isai. 1. 11 12. 5. 6. 7. 8. Levi. 10. 1. Ovid Matth. 13. Ezech 13. 10. August 1637. â— 9. Lib 35 cap. 14. 10. Bell de miss lib. 1 c. 17. On the 13. of S. Iohn 11. §. 12. 1. Iere. 17. 9. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. De civitate Dei lib. 12. cap. 9. Cap. 13. §. 7. On Matt. 9. 1. p. q. 57. aâ— 4. 1. p. q. 12. ar. 8. 4. d. 45. q. 4. p. 4â—3 1 King 8. 39. 1. 2. 3. 1 Cor. 11. 16. 1. 2. 3. 4. 2 King 19. 16. §. 5.