came from the Pope as out of the Trojan horses belly to the destruction of Gods kingdome The Church of God never knew them neither doth any reformed Church in the world know them And birds of the same feather are covetous Patrons of Benefices Parsons Vicars Readers Parish Priests Stipendaries and riding Chapleins that under the authoritie of their Masters spoile their flock of the foode of their soules such seeke not the Lord Iesus but their owne bellies clouds they are without raine trees without fruit painted Sepulchers full of dead bones fatted in all aboundance of iniquitie and leane Locusts in all feeling knowledge and sincerity Hier. in Syâ—â— Ruffin Perversi homines ad assentiâ—nem dogmatum suorum sub virorum Sanctorum nomine interseruerunt ea quae illi nunquam scripserunt Virg. An. l. 2. Accipe nunc Danaum insidias crimine ab uno disce omnes CAN. Necess of repar p. 48. 49. 〈◊〉 Can any Legerdemaine be more palpable than to apply these words to the office of Parsons and Vicars and their Ministerie who painefully diligently and profitably spend and have spent their time and strength in the service of the Lord Iesus Christ and of his Church If you will so grossely mistake or pervert their writings how shall wee beleeve you upon your word when you report that this or that you have heard or seene That a man from those principles may infer a lawfull separation from all spirituall communion in the ministerie of our English Churches you think every one if he understand what a principle is will freely grant And for my part I thinke every man that understands what the Non-conformists principles are or what a true conclusion rightly deduced from sound or true principles is will freely grant that your separation from the ministery of the Church of England in the Ordinances of worship is rash groundlesse and sinfull contrary to right reason the Non conformists principles and the holy Scriptures And so I commend the worth or weaknesse of what I have written to your consideration intreating if you can to bring gentle words and weight of matter as best beseemeth a good cause CHAP. II. THat God must be worshipped according to his owne will and commandement Bilson Christ. subject part 3. p. 302. It is onely Gods office to appoint how he will be served Tertul. de praescrip advers haeret Nobis nihil licet de nostro arbitrio indulgere sed nec eligere quod aliquis de arbitrio suo induxerit Apostolos Domini habemus Authores qui nec ipsi quidquaÌ„ de suo arbitrio quod inducerunt elegerunt sed acceptum à Christo c. Can. stay sec 3 p. 16 Can. Neces of Separat p. 72 73 74 75 76 77. and that nothing must goe under the name of worship which he hath not commanded or instituted in his Word is a truth confessed and maintained by the Church of England Conformists and Non-conformists So that it is altogether needlesse to spend many words and quote many Authors to prove that which is commonly received if it be not a wrong to mention that as a principle of the Non-conformists which is the doctrine of the Church with one consent professed of all the members of the societie Else where you write but your speech is over-lavish as most commonly it is that all sorts and sects of Writers acknowledg this for a truth that to worship God in any other way or manner than he hath in his Word prescribed is unlawfull And therefore this paines here taken might well have been spared but the plenty herein may serve to hide your poverty in that which is to be proved Your Reason to prove the necessitie of separation from the Non-conformists Principles is thus laid downe The Lord in Scripture hath laid it as a straight charge upon all the faithfull to separate themselves from Idolaters Sect. 1 Can. Neces of Separat cap. 2. sec 3. pag. 83 84. and to be as unlike to them as may be specially in their religious observations and ceremonies The second Commandement proves this effectually for there is absolutely forbidden all participation in any feigned service whether it be to the true God or any other When Jeroboam had set up a false worship we reade Hosea 4.14 15. Amos 5.5 that the good Prophets of that time and after called the godly Israelites away from it and bid them in plaine termes not to joyne therewith but on the contrary to keepe Gods Commandentents and statutes appointed for his service without adding any thing to them or taking any thing from them And this they must doe although the King had confirmed his new Religion by Act of Parliament or Councell and therefore no doubt would persecute most grâ—evously all the refusers thereof c. Thus you goe on in foure leaves or thereabouts to confirme your proposition Answer Ibid. pag. 84. to 92. and yet it may be questioned whether you doe confirme or explaine every particular conteined therein For if it be demanded what it is to be as unlike to Idolaters as much as may be and how that is proved to be necessary either by the commandement of God or practice of the godly without some fit or due limitation which is not added I suppose you will be to seeke much lesse can it be concluded out of this discourse But let us heare your Assumption But the worship of the English-Church-Service-Booke hath no warrant by Gods word Can. Neces p. 85. bid pag. 91. but it is a devised false and idolatrous worship If we take a strict view of that ministery worship and government which they left at Dan and Bethel it will appeare evidently that the same was not more false idolatrous and unlawfull Id. pag. 85. than the present ministery worship and government of the English Assemblyes is by the Non-conformists affirmed to be And because none may thinke that I speake more than can be proved I will therefore here lay downe an apologie or pretext which an idolatrous Israelite might frame in the defence of the Kings Religion Freshsute lib. 2. pag. 80. taken out of their owne writings And if Dr Ames phrase be tolerable I will pawne my head that there is never a Nonconformist this day in the world let him keep to their grounds that is able to give more pretty reasons Course of conform pag. 161. and colourable shewes to justifie the Religion of the Church of England That all worship Answer which hath not warrant from Gods word is unlawfull Socrates was wont to say Every God was to be honoured as he himselfe had given in commandement August de Conf. Evang lib. 1. cap. 18. Wherefore as Michah and Ieroboam grievously offended so whosoever brings into Gods service any thing of his own device he sinneth deadly But Images Crosses and Crucifixes are mens devices whereby they flatter themselves in pleasing God therfore they ought to be abhorred Calfe
or standing of honour in the house of GOD have they cause to aske pardon of this also if they shall thinke their ministerie may be effectuall to the faithfull A Minister lawfully called say you according to Christs institution is incontinently upon his outward lawfull calling a true Minister let his practices afterward be good or bad Put case then the Church should accuse such a Minister utterly neglecting his charge or inclining to say Masse and Mattens or loose and scandalous in behaviour as unworthie his place and office have they just cause to crave pardon of him because they acknowledged him to be a Minister but unworthily Many abuses not to be tolerated may cleave to the Ministery when the ministerie it selfe is not to be cast off as altogether ineffectuall SECTION 9. CAN Necess of Separ pag. 27.28 The Learned generally affirme Rhem. annoâ— in Iâ— 10. anno 1. and in 1. Cor. 10. Sect. 22. that it is unlawfull to communicate in a false ministery Par. Com. in Matth. 7.15 All those without doubt are to bee taken for deceivers who take upon them the office of teaching without a true calling and a little after he saith That so much being discouered 〈◊〉 Christian must 〈◊〉 hid â—are against them Dow. in a Reg. 5. v. 19. and Psal 15. p. 56. Admon 1. to the Parliament p. 27. T. C. reply 1. pag. 83.155 CAN. Stay p. 5.62 63 71 113 118 119 c. and flye from them as from Wolves Musculâ—â— in Matth. 7.15 saith the like Cope in Prov. 10.20 speaketh as much and giveth this reason for it because they destroy both bodies and soules of aâ— many as eâ—t her beâ—eeve or reverence them Zanch in Phil. 3.2 Ralloc com in 1 Thes 5.11 page 228. Riv. in Psal 16. page 52.53 Oecolamp in Isa â—â—2 fol. 20. Cal. in Psal 16. Fen. in Song 1.6.7 Cornel. a Lapid Com. in Iohn Ep. 2. page 505. saith False Ministers are favoured and approved in their unlawfull way when they are boundâ— Par. in Hosea 13.2 Sedul in 2 Reg. 5. Mâ—â—ty loc comâ—p 119 Virels Grounds in lib. 2. p. 103. Zanch in â—rac 3. p. 534. ANSWER Blaming your Treatiser that he comes so naked into the field CAN Stay Sect. 12. p. 119. you say I never saw in my life an error held by a man of Learning that hath lesse brought to countenance it than this For whereas others doe commonly quote Scriptures albeit mis-applyed and alledge for themselves the judgements of other men Hieron in Psalm 5. Omnâ— qui maâ—è intillig it Scripturas in via Dei corruit He goeth not this way to worke And better it is to goe plainely and simply to worke in the defence of his cause than to wrest Scripture mis-alledge Authors and abuse a show of Learning to seduce and beguile the simple But you have made choyse of the more common though the most sinfull course You pretend Scriptures but handle them amisse Quote Authors but chop and change their words force them to speake what they never meant and when all is done they will bee found to make nothing for but direct against you Ambr. Intus in animo perdant modo victores abscedant CAN. Necess of Separ p. 227. Tertul. de Virgi veland If Christ wâ—re ever afore all the truth is as ancieâ—â— and everlsting You make use of Logicall Maximes and Theologicall Principles but your mistakes are grosse and palpable in the application of them Some men you say in matters of controversie care not though they lose the peace of Conscience so they may gaine their supposed victory And if you have not offered violence to your Conscience in those writings you have not advisedly considered what you have done To make this manifest in some particulars not formerly mentioned It is an infallible Maâ—ime you say as Doctor Vsher and others observe out of Tertulliâ—n Whatsoever is first that is truest and what comes after is adulterate CAN. Stay sect 2. p. 14. Vsher de Christ Eceles success stat c. 1. p. 19 Field of the Ch. lib. 2. c. 5. page 49. CAN. Stay sect 2. p. 11. For with reverence to the phrase From the beginning it was not so Basil ep 79. Non est aequum ut quae apud ipsos obtinuit consuetudo pro lege canone habeatur rectae doct inae Henry Answ first ans p. 31. I grant your Church is ancient but I deny it to be most ancient seeing then the most ancient by your own grant is most true c. CAN. Stay sect 4. p. 27. T. C. repl 1. p. 79. D. T. W. The Doctors of the Synod 5.6 Warres are judged by their causes and not by their consequences Bilson Christian subject part 3. page 201. The first in any kind or sort of things is truest and best so Field This is spoken of the prime first originall being of each thing which is a sure proofe of goodnesse and perfection For all defects found in things are swarvings declinings and departures from their originall and first estate For truth is before false-hood and good before evill and habite before privation But you miserably apply that Rule to the first judgment of the separated Church in London concerning the hearing of the Word preached in our English Assemblies as if it must bee truest because it was first and their after judgement adulterate because it followed You distinguish not betwixt the effect and the event which I will not say was done ignorantly or unadvisedly To reason from the effect of things you say is unsound and unconcludable by the Scriptures This is as if a man would say the Midwives which lyed to Pharoah did much good to the Israelites c. And then you goe forward to produce testimonies that things are to be esteemed by their causes and not by the event and that things are not true because usefull But your Pistoler argueth from the effect not from the event from the proper effect not the effect by accident as you might easily perceive but that you tooke liberty to deride what you could not answer Thus he argueth The Doctrine taught in the Church of England is the sound and true doctrine of salvation profitable to beget faith and to build men forward unto life eternall not by accident but of it selfe and is ordinarily blessed of God to that end and purpose Therefore it is not unlawfull to heare the word preached in their assemblies What you talke of Caines murder Iudas his Treachery the good that comes by Schismes and Heresies is only to please your selfe with by-matters for the argument is drawne from the proper effect in respect of meanes instituted appointed and blessed of God This Canon is true if truly applyed and rightly limited CAN. Stay sect 4. p. 20. and sect 10. p. 111. parium par ratio est contrariorum eadem est ratio But as you apply it no good Logician would acknowledge it For though the
against Martiall Preface to the reader Bellarm. lib. 3. de justifi c. 8. Non potest aliquid certuÌ„ esse certitudine fidei nisi aut immediate contineatur in verbo Dei aut ex verbo Dei per evidentem consequentiaÌ„ deducatur Park de pol. Eccl. l. 1. c. 1.4 Separabant se sacerdotes et Levitae qui Deum timebant 2 Chro. 11.14 Atqui haec separaâ—â—o ab Israelitis idolatris erar quâ— legemcult umque Dei per idola Ieroboam fundamentaliter sustulerunt Aug. de unit eccl c. 16. Let the Donatists if they can shew their Church not in rumors and speeches of the men of Africa nor in the couÌ„cels of their Bishops nor in the discourses of any writer whatsoever nor in the signes and miracles that may be forged but in the prescript of the Law in the predictions of the Prophets in the verses of the Psalmes in the voyces of the Shepheard himselfe c. that all devised false and idolatrous worship is to be abhorred is confessed and professed by Conformists and Nonconformists It is a constant received position That nothing ought to be tolerated in the Church as necessary unto salvation or as an article of faith except it be expresly contained in the word of God or manifestly to be gathered therefrom and that all ceremonies are to be rejected wherein there is placed opinion of merit worship or necessitie to salvation But that the worship tendred to God in the English Congregations is devised false idolatrous that the Nonconformists never said nor thought and whosoever shall rashly affirme it he shall never be able to make proofe thereof by the word of God If any rite prescribed in the book of Common-prayer be worship in the use thereof the word being taken in a large signification that is not so in the intention and profession of the Church nor apprehended to be so in them that conforme unto it neither doth it defile the worship of God to them that joyne in the ordinances of grace notwithstanding the corruption which in their judgement is annexed to it and practised by some For notwithstanding such corruption or abuse the worship it selfe is that which God hath prescribed approved blessed to them that seeke his face aright and serve him unfeignedly whereat he requireth our presence and wherein he hath promised to sup with us and we with him That the Non-conformists should affirme the worship of God or ministery in the English Assemblies to be as false idolatrous and unlawfull as was the worship of Jeroboam at Dan and Bethel is a most lewd and impudent slander which the sworne shavelingâ— of Antichrist whose profession is to lye and slander for the catholique cause would blush to vent You know it is contrary to their judgement practice prosession and protestations many times renewed Whether the phrase be tolerable or no if you will be prodigall to pawne your head in this case take heed lest you loose it not in Gods cause but in your owne And if you shall be desperate herein your forwardnesse will move no wise man for Religion is to be learned from the truth of God and not from the high adventures of inconsiderate men The Non-conformists can prove the Religion and worship of the Church of England to be of God not by petty reasons and colourable shewes which they leave to them that maintaine a bad cause but by pregnant evidence from the word of truth not by similitudes allegories and forced interpretations of Scripture as you dispute against it but by plaine texts of Scripture and sound reason deduced therefrom against which the gates of hell shall never prevaile The Author of that Booke Bilson Christ subject part 4. p. 349. This is the doubt betwixt us whether we should coÌ„tent our selves with such meanes as he hath devised for us and coÌ„mended unto us thereby daily to renew the memory of our Redemption or else inveÌ„t others of our own heads fit perhaps to provoke us to a naturall and humane affection but not fit to instruct ourfaith c. He knowing that images though they did intertaine the eyes with some delight yet might they snare the souls of many simple silly persons and preferring the least seed of sound faith beholding adoring him in spirit truth before all the dumbe shewes and Imagerie that maÌ„s wit could furnish to win the eye Can. Neces of Separat c. 2. p. 78 79. 254. according to a prescript form culled out of the blasphemous Mass-book 238. That which was takeÌ„ out of the vile Masse-booke c. Sold. â—aâ—w T. C. repl 1. pag. 130. Abridg. p. 89. Adm. 1. p. 9. 2. Adm. p. 41. Fall of Babyl â—9 Altar Damasc pag. 612 613. Syons plea. 29. Perth Assemb 64. Syons plea. 30. pag. 40. 〈…〉 intituled The course of Conformitie sheweth that the Israelites might in generall pretend for Jeroboams calves the same excuses that were made in defence of some corruptions thrust upon the Church of Scotland but the corruptions he doth not make to be like nor the pretences to be of equall validitie nor the state of the Church where such corruptions are tollerated to be the same with the state of the Israelites who worshipped the Calves Abuses that agree in the generall nature of abuse may be coloured with the same pretences when they be not of the same weight qualitie or degree the one may be small the other hainous The same distinction may be brought to countenance the vilest heresie and a petty errour if I may so speake Heresie and Idolatry are both talkative and who doubts but corrupt wits can say much in defence of both shall we thence conclude that errour or heresie are both one every abuse is grosse idolatry The Author you quote was not so unadvised His drift was onely to shew the vanitie of such excuses and not to match the things pleaded for with Jeroboams Idolatry as hath been shewed before But let us see whether you can alledge any colourable shew or petty reason to prove our worship to be false and idolatrous The whole forme of the Church-service is borrowed from the Papists peiced and patched together without reason or order of edification yea not onely is the forme of it taken from the Church of Antichrist but surely the matter also For none can deny but it was culled and picked out of that popish dunghill the portius and vile Masse-booke full of all abhominations From three Romish Channels I say was it raked together namely the Breviarie out of which the common prayers are taken out of the Rituall or booke of Rites the administration of the Sacraments Buriall Matrimony Visitation of the sick are taken and out of the Masse-booke are the Consecration of the Lords Supper Collects Gospels and Epistles And for this cause it is that the Papists like so well of the English Masse for so King James used to call it and makes them say Surely the Romish is the true and
AN ANSWER TO TWO TREATISES Of Mr. IOHN CAN THE Leader of the English Brownists in Amsterdam The former called A Necessitie of Separation from the Church of ENGLAND proved by the Nonconformists Principles The other A Stay against Straying Wherein in opposition to M. Iohn Robinson he undertakes to prove the unlawfulnesse of hearing the Ministers of the Church of England Very seasonable for the present times By the late learned laborious and faithfull servant of Jesus Christ JOHN BALL He that is first in his owne cause seemeth just but his neighbour commeth and searcheth him Prov. 18.17 Prove all things hold fast that which is good 1 Thes 5.21 LONDON Printed by R. B. and are to be sold by John Burroughes at his Shop at the signe of the Golden Dragon neere the Inner Temple gate in Fleetstreet 1642. TO The Christian READER Sound Knowledge and love of the Truth together with inward peace and Spirituall joy through Communion with Christ in the Ordinances of the Gospell Christian READER THis ensuing discourse was prepared for the Presse by the Reverend Author and committed to one of us that it might be made publike of which we will say nothing but shall freely venture it to stand or fall by the award of an impartiall judgement Neither shall wee present thee with the Authors deserved praises seeing his rare pietie and great learning were sufficiently knowne to very many of various rankes who were well acquainted with him and his workes already Printed have given a competent proofe hereof unto all others who have 〈◊〉 them without prejudice and partialitie Only by occasion of publishing this piece wee â—â—we leave to cleare him from such aspersions as by 〈◊〉 have causlesly beene cast upon him and by others too much and too easily believed against him a thing incident to men most eminent and innocent as instances in all Ages will evince not only to the blemishing of his just estimation but also as we conceive to the prejudice of the truth it selfe and in favour of many spreading errours and exorbitances Those aspersions which wee shall endeavour to take off are two which though they openly contradict each other yet they unhappily agree to defame our worthy friend whose credit wee judge our selves many wayes bound to vindicate and preserve The one intimating some degree of declining from his former inconformitie in deserting the Nonconformists cause and grounds being too much inclined to favour the times in our Ceremonies and Service book The other expressing his advancing beyond the wonted limets of a Nonconformist towards the cause and course of separation Two things are pretended to confirme the former 1. A passage in the Preface of his Book called A friendly tryall of the grounds tending to separation c. pag. 3. his words are these Many are the objections which are made against set formes of Prayer and particularly against our booke of Common Prayer All which I have endeavoured to answer severally not because they are of so great weight but because I desired fully to satisfie every doubt c. Secondly that in the whole frame of the same booke he speakes more covertly and coldly against the corruptions of our Church than became a man who continued stedfast in the wayes of Nonconformity For Answer whereunto we affirme in the Generall That upon our knowledge he lived and dyed a strict forbearer and firme opposer of all such corruptions as the Nonconformists heretofore so usually called had commonly by their publike writings disallowed Nor have wee knowne any man in that kinde more precise uniforme and constant to his opinion in discourse prayers and practices yet alwayes carried on with Christian moderation and meekenesse which graces are of singular use in controversies of this nature yea some of us can witnesse his purpose if God had lent him longer life by a set Treatise to have shewed himselfe a plaintiffe for the Nonconformists against the corruptions in our Church as in this hee appeares their defendant against the Calumnies of Master Can. These testimonies may satisfie the sober minded that he continued cordial to their cause whereunto more might be added but wee desire not to revive the remembrance of these differences among deare brethren Because wee pray and hope that through Gods mercy by meanes of our Gracious Sovereigne and of the present Parliament they will in such sort be buried that they shall arise no more to our disturbance and discomfort More particularly to the passage objected out of the forecited Preface we Answer That the words themselvs doe not necessarily imply any such sense but they may admit yea they will carry a better construction if the Reader will be candid and well advised For he saith not that he hath answered the objections as suggesting little or nothing blameworthy in our Liturgie but because they are not of so great weight as to inforce the unlawfulnesse of those set formes or warrant a separation from our Churches and publike worship in regard thereof All which both the title of the Booke and the tenour of the whole discourse therein together with this Treatise exhibited will sufficiently cleare unto the indifferent and attentive Reader And that this was his meaning some of us can testifie from his owne mouth which also he would have manifested to the world if God had lengthened his life either in an Epistle annexed to this worke now brought into the open light or some other way as might have been judged most convenient But you will say Object The other ground of this imputation is more pregnant for why did he not speake out against the corruptions of the times as others did Nay why did he seek to cleaâ— the book of Common Prayer of some things charged upon it Two things we conceive may fully take off the strength of this objection Answ 1. Because it was impertinent here to aggravate or multiply corruptions objected but rather to shew that as in some things the booke by them was overcharged so notwithstanding all that could be alledged against it yet separation from our worship could not be lawfull much lesse necessarie 2 The state of those times wherein this piece was penned would not brooke more plainnesse in that and such like points this we could if it were expedient aboundantly evidence by declaring with what difficultie it passed the Presse what exceptions were taken at some harmelesse expressions and what amendments were exacted in some phrases which seemed somewhat openly to hint the Authors heart-workings towards that Reformation which in these times is much desired and endeavoured The second imputation remaines to be removed viz. that though our Reverend Author had both reasoned and written against the opinions and practice of separation in the time of his health yet on his death bed he did retract and with griefe repent what in that kinde he had done This is commonly reported confidently believed and gladly embraced not only here at home but also in forreigne parts even in
not beene noted for noveltie singularitie and division is to bee received as the undoubted truth of God If these assertions be true then is this condemnatorie sentence most unjust and untrue For not only all old writers generally but the most learned of later times yea and all sects and sorts of people professing Christianitie themselves excepted are against it Therefore did they consider the terrour of the Lord CAN stay sect 1 p. 8. and that great day in which the Lord Iesus shall appeare in the brightnesse of his Father to avenge the quarrell of his least Commandement and to judge the wrongs Gregorie to John the Bishop of Constantinople saith thus Tu qâ—â—â— Christo universali ecclesic capiti in extrâ—mi judicii dâ—cturus es examine qui cuactacjus membra tibimet conarts universalis appellatione supponere CAN stay against straying sect 1. p. 8 Parker of the crosse part 2. c. 9. sect 2. I may well compare some of unbridled spirits to the Flaccians whose intemperate furie made Ernestus to deale the more hardly with the Protestants out of a fear they were all of the same spirit and would in the end procure like mischiefe Am. Polan in Dan. c. 9. injuries and reproaches which are cast upon his Church and Saints ordinances and worship they would not speake evill of what they know not revile his heritage despise his worship condemn the righteous vilifie the ordinances of grace abuse Scriptures misalledge Authors cause divisions and schismes in the Churches of God distract the minaes of some obstinate others and expose religion it selfe to contempt Let mee speake to them as the great est zealot in that cause at this day speaketh to his opposite in a cause of lesse importance When God ariseth up what will they answer him what will they say when hee shall not onely charge them that they have made a rent in the Church brought an evill report upon his ordinances spoken contemptuously of that which he approved yea commanded and perverted his word for that end and purpose But also that they have laboured with might and maine to draw others into the same transgression by meanes whereof his name is blasphemed the weake scandalized the godly made sad and that which was halting quite turned aside If it be sure that a more grievous punishment is reserved for them that cause others to offend than for them which doe such things themselves let the adviser weigh seriously whether it doth not concerne himselfe as much as any other to tremble and stand in awe It is a vaine boast that at this day there are few CAN say Episâ— to the Reader The judgment and practice of some men of speciall account in the Church of God have to this day held this impression in me that I esteem the Captaines and Ancient-bearers of this schisme unworthy the honour of any set conflict and publike confutation S. B. the raising of the foundation of Browne Ep. to the Christian Reader CAN Neces of separa Epist to the Reader Galschill to Martial Epist Omnia invalida nihilo sunt aequiâ—â— paranda if any except Formalists and Familists and men of corrupt mindes who suppose that gaine is Godlines that will appeare in defence of our parish Churches Ministerie and Worship For the professors as he is pleased to stile them are of the same judgement touching those things that formerly they have beene of and stand ready by the Scriptures to prove their godly congregations to be the true Churches of Iesus Christ and their worship to be of his holy institution If of later times they have beene silent in these matters it is not because they are better informed or that they see and acknowledge their worship and Ministery to be fals and idolatrous but they would not spend good houres in vaine seeing what soever was written in this kinde had beene learnedly and sufficiently answered not with reproaches taunts and boastings as is suggested but with solid proofe out of the booke of God Christian Religion teacheth men to occupie themselves otherwise than to mispend their time in answering that which in the eares of all indifferent men carryeth a sufficient confutation with it or is sufficiently confuted already specially when experience had lessoned them that they must deale with such as will overcome by peremptory censuring when weight of reason is wanting to them Neverthelesse If not reply if they please and when they will CAN stay Epist When the undertakers have finished their answer and â—ast Dav. published his many things that he hath to say against it Id sect 4. p. 36. least overmuch silence should be interpreted consent or beget too great confidence in men of the goodnesse of their cause and others should stumble at their vaunts as if none durst because they doe not undertake their answer I am purposed by the grace of God to examine the grounds and arguments whereby they would perswade the Necessitie of Separation from our Assemblies and from the worship of God performed amongst us Sundry things M. Canne requesteth of him that shall undertake to read and answer his bookes CAN stay epistle to the Reader 1 That when he setteth himselfe to read hee should set himself as in Gods presence and look on with a single and unpartiall eye 2 That he live by his owne faith and build not upon another mans fancie 3. That he denie himself and be contented to be guided by God alone 4. That for a particular faile hee doe not condemne the whole 5. That hee change not the state of the Question 6. That he may finde plaine dealing Id. Stay sect 1. p. 2.4.5 Sanctis Scripturis non loquentibus quis loquitur Amb. de vocat Gent. tom 2. l. 2. c. 3. Omne quod loquimur debemus â—ffi mare de Scripturis sanctis Hier. in Psal 98. tom 8. Nihil ultra quamsacris literis proditum est definiendum Erasm in Hilar. Solum Dei verbum certum caetera falsa si dâ—ssentiant Fer. ad Rom. c. 3. p. 303. CAN stay sect 4. p. 32. sect 1. p. 44. and what is brought against him be read out of the Prophets or Psalmes the Law or Gospell Whether these conditions be observed by the Author himselfe in his writings let the indifferent judge as namely whether passages of Scripture be truly alledged Authors rightly quoted arguments plainly propounded conclusions soundly drawne his adversaries ingenuously dealt withall Whether in writing he set himselfe in the presence of God and weigh in the Ballance of the Sanctuarie what he commendeth unto his Reader Whether he censure not before he make proofe by Scripture and rather insult over his adversaries with insolent and reproachfull tearmes than confute their grounds with substantiall reasons and whiles he commendeth plaine dealing simplicitie and integritie he doe not play the jugler who pretends plainnesse that he might beguile and deceive the sooner For when he makes semblance of zeale for the puritie of religion
ab ipsis corpore divelli possumus nos ad meliores conferre onmino debemus sed saepâ— fit ut velis nolis in medio impâ—orumâ—e veâ—sari oporteat caveas igilur ab eorum studâ—is operibus ut Deus tecum loquatur Lavat in Eack cap. 3. Hom. 11. and this is altogether unlawfull For Gods people when the matter commeth to their practice must have the judgement of discretion and further they crave not the judgement I say of discretion to try the Spirits whether they be of God or not And in case the Church whether of ignorance or contention or a man-pleasing humour determine in doctrine against the Word or in ceremonie against the generall Rules their duty is to obey God rather than man But the sinnes of the Minister or other part of the Congregation shall not be imputed to him who doth only communicate in the ordinances of worship 2 To communicate in a false Ministerie may import to communicate in the ordinances of worship with them whose calling is not in every respect approved of God and this is lawfull If then the sense of this reason be That our Ministerie is absolutely false or a meere nullitie it cannot be made good by Scripture grounds or Non-conformists principles but the contrary is most evident And he that shall undertake to prove such a desperate Proposition must grant that there was neither Church or Sacrament nor Ministerie in the world for many hundred yeers past if he finde not just cause to question his owne Christendome But if the meaning be that it is not lawfull to communicate in the worship of God with Ministers not fitly qualified disorderly called or carelesly executing their office and function then it is directly crosse to the Word of truth sound reason and consent of all the learned If you demand as you doe of your Pistoler Where I pray you doe you read in the Scriptures of two kinds of Antichristian churches speak out man shew us the place the chapteâ— and the verse ingenuous dealing requires it Stay sect 3. pag 20. Isa 56 10 11.12 Jer. 8 8.9 10.11 Mâ—c 3.11 Mal. 2.8 Ezek 44.7 8 9 10. See Iun. annot in loc L water ibid. M.c. 3.11 Jerem. 5.31 1 Sam. 2.12 15 16 17 25. 1 Sam. 1.1 2 3 Iâ—h 2 16. See Constant Emperor Comâ—in Misn where wee read in Scripture of these two kinds of false Ministers and communicating with either in the ordinances of worship we will shew you the place the chapter and the verse When the Priests were dumb dogs that could not bark and greedy dogs that could never have enough was their Ministerie true or false were they qualified as becomes the Ministers of the Lord of hoasts or no The strangers and uncircumcised which were set to take the charge of the Lords Sanctuary were they true Ministers or false When the Priests taught for hire and the Prophets prophesied for money when the â—rophets prophesied lies and the Priests bare rule by their means Was their Ministery true or false Were the Sonnes of Eli true or false Ministers qualifyed as becommeth the servants of God they were not but the function which they executed was of God When the Priests bought and sold Doves in the Temple or took upon them to provide Doves or such like things for them that were to offer was their Ministerie true or false Did they that whereunto they were appointed of God or noe Matth 5.20.21 22. c. Matth. 15.3 4 5. Matth. 23.13.15 When the Scribes and Pharisees corrupted the Law by false glosses taught for doctrines mens precepts made the Commandement of God of none effect by their traditions shut up the Kingdome of heaven before men neither going in themselves nor suffering them that would making those of their profession twofold more the children of hell than themselves When they taught Justification by works and perfect obedience to the whole law and denied in Christ both the Person and office of the Messiah blaspheming him in his doctrine as a deceiver of the people Matth. 12.24 Luk 7 30. Joh. 7.32 Matth. 21.45 36. in his life as a glutton and wine-drinker in his glorious miracles as one that wrought them by the Devill and when they hated to be reformed was their Ministerie true or false were they called of God or did they thrust in themselves before they were sent If their Ministerie was true then an ignorant Idoll profane idle Ministerie which despiseth knowledge opposeth Godlinesse prophaneth the holy things of God corrupteth the Law polluteth the worship strengtheneth the hands of the wicked and leadeth the blinde out of the way may be a true and lawfull Ministerie of God It is besides the marke here to answer that the Scribes and Pharisees did neither minister to any but the Lords people nor in an unlawful place nor by an unlawful entrance For the Question now is of their Ministerie the qualification of their persons to the office which they took upon them Whether such a Ministerie as theirs was to be approved of God and such Persons to be chosen or continued in their standing For be their outward calling what it will and the people to whom they administer as they may if the Ministerie be not of God if the persons be not qualified as God requireth if they execute not their office for God according to his will revealed and the good of his people but against God according to their owne corrupt immaginations and to the griefe of the godly their standing in that place and roome without question is not of Gods approbation nor their calling lawfull It might be added Num 8 9 10. Lâ—â— 8.3 that though the tribe of Levi onely was used to the Ministerie yet all that tribe was not applyed that wayes nor those at all adventure but by choice according to their abilities And therefore if the Pharisees were not fitted in some measure for their office the choice was not by approbation from God nor their entrance lawfull If then their Ministerie was false either it was unlawfull to communicate with them in the ordinances of worship Matth. 8.4 Luk. 17.14 Io. 18.20 Luk. 22.53 which is directly crosse to Scripture the examples of the Prophets our Saviour his Apostles and all the faithfull or to communicate with or in a false Ministerie is not a breach of the second Commandement They that preached Christ of envie Phil. 1.15 St Paul to the Philip. is glad that the Gospel is preached although it be not purely but he would never have been glad if it should have been preached falsly or not truly c. the want of a good calling may give occasion to say that the Word of God is not sincerely taught because there is not a lawfull ordinary calling l. C. repl 1 pag. 28. to adde affliction to Pauls bands were they true Ministers or false What soever you will say to heare them preach Christ was no breach of the
therefore only because if the choosers and ordainers had done their duties they should have made a better choice For being sent by men that have authoritie though abusing the same wee cannot say they have no true or lawfull Ministery for then were all ministration of the Sacraments and other sacred things void performed by scandalous ungodly Ministers and such as by sinister meanes get into these holy places The fourth are of such as are neither sent of God nor of men nor by men but runne of themselves and have no calling at all who are neither Ministers of Christ for themselves nor others Thus farre Hierome 3 Such are Antichristian Ministers as teach false doctrine be set apart to an office meerely of men contrary to the Word of God and live in communion and societie with men professing reall idolatrie as members of that societie though somewhat of God be joyned in this their profession Whereunto may be referred such as being tried are found to be false Prophets censured and cast out of the Church by them that have authority Of which sort are those Hereticks which are condemned of their own conscience and after once or twice admonition are to be shunned 4 Such are Antichristian as be meerely from men dispense onely the things of Antichrist and have nothing of God at all If by Antichristian Teachers be meant false Prophets Thom. Becon his humble supplicat unto God c. written in Queen Martes daies Vol. 2. Purge our temples of all Popish abominations of ceremonies of Images of Altars of Copes of Vestments of Pixes of Crosses of Censers of Holy Water buckets of holy Bread Baskets of Chismatories c. above all Idolatrous Priests and ungodly ignorant Curates Chaloner The Orig. and progr of Haeresie This change of their use by occasion of Altars and other ceremomes which crept in as also by reason of the figurative speeches of the Ancients c. produced in the end a doubt of the change of the substance c. The Pope first Breve in this third and fourth acceptation I grant the faithfull must hold no communion with them because God hath forbidden it and these are false Prophets who have no calling teach their owne dreames minister not the things of God but of men and either never were members of the true Church professing the intire faith or upon their discoverie are cast forth as unsavorie salt And this the passages of Scripture quoted to prove the controversall part as you say doe confirme Whereunto answere hath been given already And the authours of all sorts alledged doe consent for it is most manifest they speake of false Prophets who have no calling teach false doctrine were never members of the Church or springing up and continuing in the Church for a time are censured and cast out that they might not molest tare and devoure the Flock But in this sense the Ministers of the Church of England be not Antichristian that which is spoken against false Prophets cannot be applyed unto them And here consider how plentifull you are in proving that which was never questioned as that the Scripture is perfect to make the man of God wise unto salvation that false Prophets must not be heard or beleeved that the Faithfull must come out of Babylon c. But that the Ministerie of the Church of England is Antichristian and the Teachers false Prophets as the Scripture useth the word in the Texts alledged this we must take upon your bare word or most grievous misapplication of the holy Text. Paul the Fift you say in a certaine Bull sent to the Catholikes in England chargeth them by all meanes not to goe to the Parish Churches or heare their Sermons least they incurre the wrath of God If this testimony will stand in any steed the Pope himselfe doth not esteeme our Parish assemblies Antichristian for then his Catholikes should not incurre the wrath of God by going unto them And what you can gaine by this witnesse I know not unlesse it be to shew that how contrary soever you seeme to be unto the Pope or Antichrist yet in this you consent and agree with him to condemne Christian communiâ—â—â—â—â— in our Assemblies in the holy exercises of Religion CAN. 〈◊〉 p 6 〈…〉 to it 〈…〉 bring 〈…〉 himselves undâ—â— greater curse by using their to agues and pens to raise up againe one part of the Kingdome of the Beast which the Lord before had consumed with the breath of his mouth Nay the sentence of the Pope is milde in comparison of that brand which you set upon communicating the ordinances of God in our assemblies viz. That it tendeth to the putting down of our true King Christ Jesus and to raise up Antichrist againe that bloody Tyrant which bold ignorant censure must needs worke the soule of every sober minded Christian to suspect that in defence of this cause you consulted with furie more than with truth and hoped to winne more with swelling words of vanity than weight of reason But my purpose is to try your strength and for unadvised censures vaine scoffes and mis-application of common received Truths I will leave you to the examination of your owne conscience SECT IV. CAN. Stay against Sect. 3. pag. 16 17. Sect. 2. pag. 14 Sect. 4. pag. 62. Sect. 7. pag. 89. TO worship God in any other way or manner than he hath in his Word prescribed is unlawfull But to heare Antichristian Ministers in false Churches is to worship God in a way and manner which he hath not prescribed The Major No man dares denie I assure my selfe For it is manifest and certaine by the whole course of the Scripture Deut. 12.8 Levit. 10.20 Psal 119.133 Mic. 7.18 Hos 9.15 Ioh. 4.23 Matth. 15.3.4 Col. 2.8 2 Joh. 16.17 Moreover all sorts and sects of writers acknowledge this for a Truth Zanch. explic in Coloss 2.23 tom 4. pag. 319. Luther com in Galat. cap. 6. pag. 871. Brent in Amos. cap. 4. Touching the second part J may spare all proofs and send them to their own consciences That this hearing is a worship the same is manifest and cleere to any that have an eye of reason Howson serm in Psal 118. p. 7. and any light of Religion shining in them None to my knowledge saving a Popish Parasite or two ever held otherwise That this worship is done in a way and manner which the Lord never appointed it is as cleere as the Sun at noon day and cannot with any modest face be denyed c. ANSWER THis is an old garment new turned and the same answer which was made to the former might suffice to this wherein the thing to be proved Bâ—ls Christ. subj part 4 p. 345. God hath not charged us to be curious in searching his Essence but to be carefull in observing his Will He neither takes nor requires any thing at our hands beside his Worship That it we yeeld him according to his Will we
of Gods Worship is one maine cause of great error and going astray In proofe of your proposition also you lavish somewhat when you say without limitation That all sorts and sects of Writers acknowledge it for a truth For the Papists generally hold the contrary as you know But this is a thing with you very usuall and common The later part of your reason which you smoothly passe over as a matter cleere and manifest and for proofe whereof you send us to our consciences in conscience we utterly denie and by the Word of God are assured of the contrary viz. That to joyne with our congregations in the ordinances of Grace is a Worship of God prescribed in his Word coÌ„mended of Christ and blessed of him to them that in conscience obey his Commandements The Worship there performed is that which the Lord hath instituted the doctrine of salvation is taught intirely the Sacraments rightly administred the sacrifice of Prayer offered unto God in the Mediation of Jesus Christ our onely high Priest who is present in the Congregations by the presence of his grace graciously inviteth men to come unto him and sweetly refresheth them that in truth of heart draw nigh unto him Thus God is worshiped in our assemblies and this worship is performed by such as are called of God and many approved of God in their Office and Ministerie That the Preaching and hearing of the Word is a Worship of God if the word Worship be taken largely to comprehend both all naturall worship and all means instituted and ordained whereby God is pleased to teach and instruct his people will easily be granted and such as denie it are justly to be taxed But that distinction of Worship must be admitted which is taught in Scripture and the more exactly tearmes are distinguished the more cleerely the fraud of the Adversary is discovered and the better able shall we be to confute them unlesse we had rather doe it with bigge words than weight of reason Onely here observe your partiality CAN. Necess of Sep. p. 72. Idem 222. For to shew the necessitie of Separation speaking of outward Worship used in the assemblies of England you say As for Preaching it is held to be no part of Divine Service and for proofe you quote Howson Serm. in Psal 118. pag. 18. CAN. 19 Syon plea 326. And Touching Preaching it is no Essentiall part of their Ministerie But against your Pistoler to prove that hearing is Worship CAN. Stay §. 3. p 17. you sing another note None to my knowledge saving a Popish Parasite or two Howson Serm. in Psal 118. pag. 78. ever held otherwise viz. but that hearing was Worship And they by men of better iudgements have been sharpely blamed for it But let us heare how you goe forward in this Argument CAN. Stay against Stray Sect. 3 pag. 17 18. The Church is an Idoll Church Hos 14 8.2 Cor. 6.14 Par. com in 1 Cor. 10 v. 14. and the Ministery an Idoll Ministerie And if be Church he an Holl the Ministerie aâ— Idolâ— who 〈◊〉 aâ— Idoll c. In the words then of the Prophet What have we to dâ—â— any more with Idolls What agreement hath the Temple of God with Idolls Little children keep your selves from Idolls Againe my dearely beloved 〈◊〉 from Idolatrie But how mente corpore faith Pareâ—s that is the worship and reverence of Idollâ— ANSWER The Assumption you leave naked to shift for it selfe because you finde it an easier matter to declaime against Idolatry and holding communion with Idolaters in their Idoll-service which no man ever doubted than to make proofe that to joyne in the ordinances of Religion in our assemblies is will-worship or superstition But if you prove little you have learned to accuse manfully An Idoll Church an Idoll Ministerie an Idoll-government who doth not tremble at such thunder cracks But first you should call to minde what you answere to your opposite CAN. Stay §. 3. p. 20 Arist de interpret l. 1. c. 6. prapter nostrâ—m â—ffirmare vel negare nihil sequitur CAN. Stay §. 7. p. 89. As for your bare saying it is farre from proofe To affirme or denie according to Aristorie is of no consequence Wee cannot take his bare saying de jure fide to be a rule of faith to us For our consciences are not like Samsons shoulders strong enough to beare it If it may suffice to accuse who shall be innocent And if the cause may be carried with clamors and out-cryes you are sure to winne the victory 2 Suppose our Church and Ministerie be an Idoll in some respect it is not a reall Idoll but Metaphoricall not absolute but in some consideration for the Word preached and the Sacraments Administred in our societies are the true Gospel and intire Sacraments of Jesus Christ which could not be if our Church and Ministery was absolutely an Idoll a meere nothing But to draw illimited conclusions from a reall Idoll to a Metaphoricall from an absolute Idoll to an Idoll in some consideration or respect is a new Logick never taught in the Schooles nor learned from the Scriptures The idle Zech. 11.16 17. Isa 56.10 Ezek. 34.1 2 4 5. They will not be able to doe the worke of Pastors where of they bear the name that is they will never be but Idolls T.C. repl 2. p. 1. p. 369 Jere. 5.1 2. Deut. 32.4 5. carelesse unprofitable coâ—etous proâ—d scandalous shepheard who filleth the roome but doth not the office of a shepheard is an Idoll shepheard But the faithfull were not to flie from them both in minde and body so as to have no communion with them in the Ordinances of God In the daies of the Prophet Iereâ—ie the men of Jerusaiem in generall both rich and poore were Idolls who had eyes but saw not eares but heard not But the Prophet had not learned in minde and body to fly from and have no societie with them in the worship of God The stiffe-necked and disobedient Israelites the uncircumcised in heart and life were they not Idols A people not a people Though those their vices must be shunned yet we have not found that Moses and the Prophets did fly from the ordinances of God because they must have nothing to doe with Idols Every thing that is emptie of goodnesse required and so doth faile or frustrate expectation may be called an Idoll a thing of no worth vaine and fruitlesse So an Hypocrite is an Idoll the husband wife father friends who are not faithfull doe not their office Job 13.4 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Nihist as Merar Montan. Tremel Iun. render it Iob 6.15 1 Cht. 16.26 Heb. Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hieron idola Psal 96.5 Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hieron vers ex Hebr. sculptile Eph. 5.3 Col. 3.5 with Hal. 1.16 may be called Idols Iob saith to his friends Ye are Physitians of no value because they had deceived him as David saith All the
adversus Canonicos nostros Episcopos congregationem faciunt Howsoever therefore the Non-conformists dissent from others touching the Office and calling of Bishops as it is esteemed a degree of ministery above Pastors and Ministers of the whole Diocesse who leave the care of Preaching to particular flockes unto others and challenge that as peculiar to themselves which is common to others or properly belongeth to many yet they never denyed the word Preached by them that professe the intire faith and the Sacraments administred by them to be the true effectuall Ordinances of Iesus Christ And most that approve the calling of Bishops deny not that there may be a Presbytery but that a Presbytery is so fit for a Monarchy being of opinion that the forme of government is left to the discretion of every Church And both sides professe that there is not any difference betwixt them which may either deprive them of salvation by the death of CHRIST or barre them from living brotherly and Christianly as members of one and the same Church It is a rule you say That no man can give more to another than hee hath himselfe But this rule of Law is unskilfully applyed or else while you dispute against one false ministery you set up another or destroy the ministery altogether For the community of the faithfull have not power to preach the Word or administer the Sacraments and hee that derives his authority from them which they have not to give is no true Minister If they be false Ministers who derive their authority from them that have it not then they that derive it from the Church as the Primitive and immediate subject must goe in that number For the Church hath not that authority and she cannot give what shee hath not Bellar. de Sacram. I. 1. ca. 26. Hussilae ordinationes sacerdetum a Romano pontifice petere consueverant Hier. in Dialog advers Luciferian Luciferiani admittebant baptisma collatum ab hereticis sed non ordinationem Bel. ubi supra Iohan 12. a Leone 8. antipapa schismatico ordinatos dicere compulit pater meus nihil habuit sibi nihil mihi dedit Nic. 1. Ep. 1. Si execrabilis utique non and bilis sinon audibilis inefficax Euseb hist. l. 7. c. 2 3 4 8 Hâ—rm Conf. conf Behem art 12. de Bapt. Grat. par 2 c 1. q. 1 c. 30.31 32 33 c 40 46 47. Bel. de facr l. 1 c 26 de Eccl. l. 3. c 9. §. Resp igitur Iun. animadv Contr. 4 l 3 c 9. not 1.1 Greg. Naz. orat 40 Sint duo annuli alter aureus alter serreus Cal. Instit l. 4. c. 15 s 16. Antidot concil Trid. ad can 12. The Classis or Presbytery you will say hath no authority to ordaine a Minister which is to administer in another congregation and hee that derives his authoritie from them that have it not to give is no true Minister If the people and guides of the Church both consent they have no authoritie to call or consecrate an unlearned covetous profane hereticall Minister and he that derives authority from them that have it not to give is no Minister and that which is done by him is of no validity his prayers are not heard the Sacraments administred by him are not seale of the covenants or internall communion with Christ or his faithfull people A false Church or ministery hath no power to call and ordaine a Minister or to give him power to preach the pardon of sinnes or dispense the seales of grace and the authority granted by them that have it not is a meere blanke These and such like are the proper consequences of this rule misapplyed All which no fort of Christians ever admitted as sound and true The Papists are very forward to challenge the reformed Churches as no true Churches because they have no true Ministers but such as were ordained by Heretickes or are fallen into heresie And yet when they have spent their breath they dare not deny but baptisme administred by Heretickes who hold intyre the forme of Baptisme is true and so the Lords Supper and ordination likewise For the impiety of the Minister cannot pollute the purity of divine mysteries neither shall they be ineffectuall to the children of God although dispensed by Iudas the Traytor Heretickes have not saith Bellarmine the remission of sinnes formally but they have it ministerially as a servant who hath not one farthing of his owne may carry many thousands of his Masters to some other man In things naturall and artificiall the effect is not like to the instrument but to the principall cause as heate is the instrument of fire though it have not the substantiall forme of fire and the baptisme which is administred and the word which is preached of wicked men is not the baptism or word of wicked men but of Christ Anatolius was consecrated of Dioscorus Felix of the Arians See Gratian decret cap. 1. qu. 1. cap. 32.33 34 35 36. 37 47. Every Minister of the Gospell derives his authority gifts and office immediately from Iesus Christ the Church people patron Presbytery or Bishop are only Stewards to set him in Office whom the Lord hath designed Aug. Consess art 8. Gratian. dist 19. can 8. Cusan concord Cathol lib. 1. cap. 5. Ex quo nunc apparet ad salutem membrorum Ecclesiae fictos in exercitu existentes effectualiter ministrare Bilson Christian sub j. part 3. p. 102. AARON was called to that office not by Moses but by God Himselfe though hee vvere annointed by Moses hands Heb. 5. Cath. Cons p. 130. Yates model of Divinity page 257. Mason Success of Bishops published by authority aâ— 1614. wherein if any one or all of them shall challenge more than of right appertaineth to them or doe ought out of partiality seditiously tyrannically or disorderly in so doing they deserve blame but that which is done is not in every respect voyd and of none effect as it hath beene shewed at large The power of ministration is received from Christ and not derived from men either formally or vertually for they have it not to give but the designation of the person is by mâ—n ministerially or instrumentally Can. Neces of Separat Pag. 38. The Conformists keepe much better to their grounds than the other doe For they professe downe right that their ministery is from the Church of Rome so that if the Popish Bishops Priests and Deacons be good theirs bee good also they being from them Now no doubt these men doe well perceive that their ministery cannot possibly be justified unlesse it bee by this way of dispute In this respect their judgment and practice is one and so farre they are to bee commended and I verily thinke that if they were sure that the ministery brought into the Land by the Prelates from Rome is false and Antichristian as the Nonconformists affirme it to be that many of them would not hereafter ever have
word which doth ordinarily beget men unto God ought to bee heard yet wee cannot conclude on the contrary the word which doth not ordinarily beget is not to bee heard For the word is but a morall cause or instrument of faith and repentance whereby the Spirit worketh not necessarily but at pleasure If therefore the Spirit worke by the word as his instrument it is of God and wee are bound to heare it But if God worke not by it effectually to saving conversion it is of him notwithstanding So this affirmative is true sinne deserâ—eth death but this negative will not follow on the contrary good works deserve life For of justice death is due to the sinner as his wages but eternall life is the gift of grace The Papists argue thus Disgrace done to an Image tendeth to dishonour God and therefore by the Rule of Contraries Honour done to an Image tendeth to the honour of GOD. Their inference and yours turne both upon the same hinges And I might truly say unto you in your owne words Ibid. Have you not here shewed your selfe an acute disputer for to pull downe Bethel you build Babell to condemne the true hearing of Gods Word you commend Idolatry Consider therfore your owne reasons and be not so rash and hastie to disgrace your brethren Your obscure translating of Philosophicall Canons CAN. Stay Sect. 2. pag 54. CAN. Stay Sect. 9. pag. 100. I will passe over as Relata sunt simul natura which you English thus Relations in nature are alike and apply it as strangely Qualis causa tale causatum you translate thus As is the cause so that which is caused of the doing of the thing Idem qua idem semper facit idem which you render As is the same so alwayes followes the same effect whereby you turne principles or Canons at least into riddles and it is hard to say whether your interpretation bee more obscure or misapplication unreasonable to speake in your language as vaine as ever man made For that which is spoken of causes univocall necessary and proper at least that you referre to morall instruments as if the word preached by wicked instruments might not bee effectuall or a man could not heare an ungodly Minister preach the Gospell but he must partake in his sin CAN. Stay Sect. pag. Sect. 3.16.17 Id. Sect. 4. pag. 28. sect 5. p. 40. sect 1. p. 49. sect 4. p. 62.63 67 72 73 74 75. You are large in proving what is not questioned as that God must bee served as he hath appointed That it sufficeth not to intend a good end but the meanes must bee lawfull That men must not bow their knees to an Idol under pretence that they reserve their hearts unto God That wee must bee earnest and zealous against Idolatry That the matter of worship must be grounded on the word Consciences shall never find any sure port to run unto but only God Calf p. 22. and that it must be done in a right and lawfull manner order form or way That the law of God is the rule of conscience That custom must not prescribe against truth That we must not doe evill that good may come thereof with other the like which you know well your Opposites do believe and maintaine But that God is not worshipped in our assemblies as he hath appointed That to heare the word preached in our congregations is pernicious Idolatry that the means therein be unlawfull that the ministerie is Idolatrous or the worship vaine that you prove not either by Scripture or any learned approved Author whatsoever you bring in both your bookes to this purpose besides your own peremptorie actions may be shut up in few words The Authors which you quote are oftimes abused you mangle their words and make them seeme to speak what they never meant or intended CAN Stay sect 3. p. 57. The truths they teach you say speaking of the Ministers of the English Church are from God but the office which gives them power and charge to speake them is from Antichrist and a speciall character or marke as the learned write of the beast Simon on Rev. pag. 120. Acts Mon. edit 5. pag. 588. On Rev. ca. 14.9 Though Priests Deacons for preaching Gods word ministring the sacramets with provision for the poor bee grounded on Gods law yet have these sects no manner of ground thereof L. Cobh Act. and Mon. p. 514 5â—5 Thus said Iohn Chaydon a Martyr of Christ The Bishops licence to preach the Word of God is the true character of the beast that is of Antichrist The like M. Bale and others But no word sounding that way is to be found in M. Simons Since their law of Confirmation was made saith hee the Bishop with the Chrisme doth signe the partie in the forehead with the character of the crosse And since they made their new office or sacerdotall thus they make their cate chumine The child or partie is brought to the Church doores where the Priest maketh a crosse with his thumb on the forehead of the childe and at the font the priest maketh a crosse in the right hand of the child c. Thus this Author but to your purpose not one word M. Bale was so farre from condemning the office of Bishops simply as Antichristian that hee himselfe was Bishop of Osyris in Ireland And how likely it is then that he should absolutely condemne a Bishops licence to preach the Gospell of Jesus Christ in the Churches of Christ as the mark and Character of the beast let any man judge What he might condemn in some respect and consideration in popish bishops as they stand sworne slaves to that Antichrist of Rome that cannot be drawn to the testimonie of Bishops CAN Neces of separ p. 25â— who have cast off the authoritie and renounced the doctrine of Antichrist And the same may bee answered to the testimonie of John Châ—ydon You many times repeate that upon the Nonconformists grounds to returne unto the service in the Church of England is to joyne with Idolaters in Idolatry This no doubt is a vehement accusation if it can be proved if it be rashly surmised then it is as pestilent a slander But ground out of the Nonconformists for such conclusions you have shewed none nor once take notice of that which is alledged to the contrarie which you could not but see if you could have found any exception against it They doe not deny but there is a visible Church of God in England and therefore your saying of them that they doe almost in plaine and flat tearmes say that we have not so much as any outward face and shew of the true Church argueth that you have almost no love in you which upon one word once uttered contrary to the tenour of their booke T.C. repl 1. p. 8. Vnreasonab of separation p. 81. and course of their whole life surmise this of them Thus a chiefe Nonconformist
p 32. The practice of the greatest part of the reformed Churches in observing holy dayes cannot commend them in the Church of Scotland 1 Because shee did spue them out wiâ—h so great detestation that shee is more bound to abhorre them than other Churches which did not the like I may wel apply that to them which Caivin saith of the ceremonies of some to Valentinus Pacaeus Vt concedam faetidas illas sordes quibus purgatae fuerunt Ecclesiae vestrae in rebus med is posse censeri carum tamen restitutio erit res media CAN Stay sect 5. p 75.76 and in some cases necessarie to receive the Sacrament with them that kneel in our assemblies And now consider to whom the imputation of folly boldnesse inconsideratenesse and if you will falshood is justly to be attributed To these particulars I will adde one more whereby we may learne what we are to expect and looke for at your hands I think to make known unto thee thus you write what hapned about seven years past in England There was a Gentleman of Warwickshire by name M. Edward Greswold a man very religious as many besides my selfe can testifie Hee and I being bosome friends or to use his owne common saying our hearts being as Davids and Ionathans knit together upon just cause we both left the parish assemblies He afterward by the meanes of some craftie men was perswaded unto hearing againe upon this he fell into great trouble of Spirit and could have no feeling assurance of any peace with God remaining thus a while at length he sent a letter by his servant unto me the which I have kept a long time by me in this letter he largely acknowledgeth his offence and among other passages writes thus Ah you are happy but I by my fall am miserable and wretched and for the present time I feele my soule to be no otherwise than if I were in Hell c. ever since I went to their assemblies I have observed the Lords hand against me c. Wherefore I beseech you by the mercies of God set a day apart for me and seeke the Lord by fasting and praying that the water-flood overflow me not c. what his refreshings were after this I cannot say the report is that to his changing he had sad and sorrowfull dayes notwithstanding I am confident that his soule is with Christ in paradise As I am writing this I thinke of the words of the Prophet My flesh trembleth for feare of thee and I am afraid of thy judgements He that is wise will consider of these things For as one saith providing before is better than repenting afterward Psal 119 120. Hal. Antiq. Rom. lib. 11 It is no marvaile that false Churches by some are called officina scelerum carnificina sanctorum shops of wickednesse and shambles of the Saints for what can a tender conscience expect in frequenting them but indeed pricks racks and tortures This is your Relation and the use you make thereof But if you know not how it fared with this distressed Gentleman thus it was He shut up himselfe and his children in his house and would come at no man nor suffer any man to come at him lest hee should communicate with them in their sin Sustenance for himselfe and his Children was brought unto them and put in at some hole or window but hee suffered no man to come in to minister unto them no not when his children and he himselfe lay sick in great misery When by order his house was broken open for the Justices of peace in consideration of his case were constrained thereunto two of his children were found dead in the house and one had lyen so long unburied that the body was corrupted and did annoy the roome The Gentleman himselfe sick on his bed in wofull plight His Bible he had gone thorough and cut out the contents titles and every thing but the very Text it selfe This I have received from credible hands and it is a matter known through that countrie where he lived And if you marke it wisely you may see the originall of his sorrow and heavinesse was not from the hearing of the Word in our assemblies but from your principles which he had too deeply drunk in and out of a desire to keepe and observe made himselfe desolate It is very likely he thought with himselfe that if by hearing the doctring of grace hee did communicate with men in their sins much more was guilt contracted by civill conversings And if you will try it in right reason I cannot see how that consequence from your principles can be avoided Now he desirous to stick to what he had learned and not to delude himself with vaine distinctions as too many of the separation doe fel first into deepe perplexitie and then at last came unto that desperate conclusion to shut up himselfe and his children It is one of your principles That all humane devices whatsoever in the worship of God are idolatrous and therefore conceiving the contents of the Chapters and titles of the bookes to be of men hee cut them out And further it is likely he would have gone if his thoughts had reached further in this matter It was your great sinne to perswade him to separation and it is your great sinne now to impute the cause of his sorrow distresse and anguish to his hearing the Word in our societies when as it was the naturall fruit of his rash and sinfull separation or of those positions whereupon his separation was builded wherein if he was not first instructed he had been built up by you Let false Churches be shops of wickednesse and the shambles of the Saints In our societies the doctrine of faith and pietie is soundly and purely taught our adversaries being judges a thousand thousands can testifie by experience what oule-ravishing comforts and sweet communion with God may be had therein When you wrote these things you had just cause to take shame and sorrow that you had brought a poore soule thus into the snare of your seducements but to take occasion thereby to encourage others harden your selfe in an evill way and to revile and slander the heritage of the Lord is an argument of how great perversnesse You are confident he is with Christ in paradise and I will not goe about to lessen your confidence therein But if you may bee confident of him may not we be confident of the Martyrs who dyed cheerefully for the testimonie of the Lord Jesus being professed members of our societies Infallible knowledge of anothers salvation we challenge not but what you can pronounce confidently of one we may with equall or greater confidence pronounce of many who laid downe their lives for the truth of God And therefore the reason drawne from the practice of the Martyrs professing against Antichrist who lived and dyed members of our Societies and are received into glory to prove that our societies are not Antichristian idolatrous
blessing upon the labour of his servants if any other Church under Heaven In the second signification the power of the keyes for substance is in our Church but the manner of ordering and administration of them is corrupt and faultie But this power of the keyes is not of absolute necessitie to the being of the Church but to the well-being onely Here is a fit place to answer your Question Whether to hide from the people the knowledge of all the maine truths which concerne the outward regiment of Christs visible church make a false Prophet It would be knowne what you call maine truths which concerne the outward regiment of Christs visible Church The power of government is proper and communicated Proper that which Christ hath reserved peculiar to himselfe and is executed according to his infinite wisdome by the secret hand of his divine power and the effectuall worke of his holy Spirit making the word of exhortation and reproofe comfort and instruction to some the savour of life unto life whence followeth effectuall answering to their calling rejoycing comfort and growing up to perfection Not to mention further how he succoureth the godly bestoweth some gifts though not such as accompany Salvation upon the wicked bridleth curbeth and confoundeth his enemies His communicated Government is that which being limited within the compasse of certaine Lawes and Canons of his holy Word he hath committed to be exercised and executed in and by Societies according to his appointment The chiefe and principall meanes Christ useth here is the preaching of his Word whereby he saveth his people and conquereth his enemies The discipline is as a Chariot for the Word to ride upon and to keepe other ordinances from contempt but it is not the most ordinary or mighty meanes of Christs government or administration of his Kingdome These things being thus The Ministers of the Gospell are to teach the people the maine grounds and chiefe heads of Christian Religion even all things necessary to salvation in respect of faith and manners otherwise they stand guilty of the bloud of soules They are to teach them also what the Lord hath instituted for the well-ordering of his house but in season order and as they are able to beare it It is not for men to set up the roofe before they have laid the foundation Experience for many yeares hath taught us that divers who have much busied themselves in the doctrine of Church-government have been unable to make f Some deny the use of excoÌ„munication among the Jewes Bils perpet Ch. gov c. 4. The Scribes and Pharises you will say did in Christs time excommunicate and thrust out such as they thought offenders out of their Synagogues But the Pharises never learned that out of Moses A separation of the Leaper from the company of men and of uncleane for comming neere holy places or things Moses prescribeth but not excommunication that I remember c. Aliens were not admitted to be of the number of the Lords people and any uncleannesse of the flesh did separate for a season the Jewes themselves from approaching neere to the Congregation or Tabernacle of God but neither of these is excommunication c. So in the use of excommunication in the Christian Church c. and many such like use of that which they have learned from others If I should bring your selfe for instance who have received many good truths from the writings of the Nonconformists but miserably pervert them to your owne hurt the disturbance of Gods Church scandall of the Gospel and the strengthning of such as are turned aside into dangerous errours I should not much misse the marke and you have more cause to take heed than to be offended Also godly men who follow the truth in love may be of different minds in these things and for men to hide that from the people whereof they are not perswaded that it is the truth of God is not the note of a false Prophet Moreover Those things which you call maine truths concerning the externall government of Christs visible Church may justly be questioned whether they be truths at all If I may conjecture by your writings the maine truths you intend are such as these That power of Church-government is absolutely necessary to the being of a Church That all stinted or set-formes of prayer or Liturgie are forged or devised worship That there is no lawfull Minister who is not chosen called or ordained by that particular Congregation where he is to administer That the Minister of one congregation may performe no ministeriall act in another That the power of Government is in the communitie of the faithfull and from them derived unto the Pastours Teachers or Elders c. These and the like are the maine truths in your esteeme which I conceive have no bottoming in the holy Scripture And if the Nonconformists or some other should aske of you this Question whether to teach such points as maine truths necessary to salvation and to condemne all Churches who conforme not to your platforme as false and Antichristian and their worship as false and idolatrous and whether to wrest and abuse Scriptures and pervert Authors to that purpose make you not a false Prophet consider advisedly what ound and satisfying answer you could returne SECT III. BEfore â—e proceed to another point Can. Neces of Separat p. 159 160. we may here frame this argument If the professors of the Gospell in England have not among them a true Church-government but are under that which came from the great Antichrist then are they bound to set up the ordinance of God and practice it no withstanding the Magistrate doe forbid the said practice But the professors of the Gospell in England have not among their a true Church-government but are under c. Therefore they are bound to set up the ordinance of God and to practice it notwithstanding the Magistrate doth forbid the said practice These are both their owne positions and so soundly proved that no man living is able to confute theus ANSVVER IF your meaning be as the ordinary signification of the words import it is not to the purpose for it is one thing in our owne persons to practice according to the ordinance of Christ another to separate from that societie which doth not practice in all things according to the institution of our Saviour But you give cause to thinke that by these words erecting this power and exercising the same among them you meane that they are to separate and draw themselves into such a societie where they may exercise that power For thus you write I doe not meane Can. Neces of Separat pag. 155. that any private person should meddle with the affaires of the Realme but that every one in his owne person doe place himselfe about the throne of God leaving the abuses of the publique Stateâ— to be reformed by such as have a calling thereto And if this be your minde in